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tru2ou
3/5/2009, 01:43 PM
I'm not going to mention anyone by name but in my mind, there is one player getting a pass this season. He's played well in a few games but I don't understand why he is starting or seeing significant minutes. Here are his season stats.

Season
40.2% FG, 37.1% 3-pt FG, 35 assists, 54 turnovers

He doesnt rank in the top 20 in any categories of the Big 12 conference statistics.

I'm just saying I would like to see someone else get a shot.

- Tru

OSUAggie
3/5/2009, 02:04 PM
Who would you like to see start over him?

Cade Davis?

Sooner13
3/5/2009, 02:28 PM
I'm not going to mention anyone by name but in my mind, there is one player getting a pass this season. He's played well in a few games but I don't understand why he is starting or seeing significant minutes. Here are his season stats.

Season
40.2% FG, 37.1% 3-pt FG, 35 assists, 54 turnovers

He doesnt rank in the top 20 in any categories of the Big 12 conference statistics.

I'm just saying I would like to see someone else get a shot.

- Tru

Let's compare this "unnamed player" and Davis

40.2% FG, 37.1% 3-pt FG, 35 assists, 54 turnovers, 29.1 min/game

Davis:
38.7% FG, 36.4% 3-pt FG, 31 assists, 9 turnovers, 15.8 min/game

Personally, I wouldn't mind Davis getting a start to see how it goes. Maybe the "unnamed player" could bring some energy and give a boost off the bench.

badger
3/5/2009, 02:47 PM
Who would you like to see start over him?

Cade Davis?

Hey OSUAggie,

I've troll patrolled OP.com to discover that quite a few of your fellow OSU fans are saying that the local media should be talking about the hot winning streak that OSU has over the most-losing that OU has done in the past week or so.

So, I must ask, OSUAggie, are you, or any other resident Poke fans reading this, confident enough in your "hot winning streak" over our recent losing to put your avatar on the line over this Saturday's game?

NormanPride
3/5/2009, 02:53 PM
This is by far his worst shooting season, and he has the best supporting cast. I think we just need to realize that it's just not going to happen. Hot nights where you score 21 points do not a career make.

Then again, he played his lowest minute total against Mizzou. Maybe Capel's had enough?

NormanPride
3/5/2009, 02:55 PM
Hey OSUAggie,

I've troll patrolled OP.com to discover that quite a few of your fellow OSU fans are saying that the local media should be talking about the hot winning streak that OSU has over the most-losing that OU has done in the past week or so.

So, I must ask, OSUAggie, are you, or any other resident Poke fans reading this, confident enough in your "hot winning streak" over our recent losing to put your avatar on the line over this Saturday's game?

NO. You are NOT doing this to us. I refuse to let this happen.

OSUAggie
3/5/2009, 03:12 PM
Hey OSUAggie,

I've troll patrolled OP.com to discover that quite a few of your fellow OSU fans are saying that the local media should be talking about the hot winning streak that OSU has over the most-losing that OU has done in the past week or so.

So, I must ask, OSUAggie, are you, or any other resident Poke fans reading this, confident enough in your "hot winning streak" over our recent losing to put your avatar on the line over this Saturday's game?

I don't really care who the local media "talks about" more. I think they do a good job of covering both squads.

As far as the game Saturday, I think you guys will win by 10-15. So, no, I'm not willing to make any sort of wager on the contest.

But I do think it'll be a mild upset if any Big XII South teams make it to the 2nd weekend of the NCAA Tournament, and I've thought that for a month or so. I'll throw an avatar on that one, specifically regarding your Sooners.

Sooner04
3/5/2009, 03:22 PM
This is just a PSA: avatar bets are gayer than Robert Reed and Rock Hudson in a hotel room on Castro Street in San Francisco.

8timechamps
3/5/2009, 03:30 PM
But I do think it'll be a mild upset if any Big XII South teams make it to the 2nd weekend of the NCAA Tournament, and I've thought that for a month or so.

Did you re-read this after you posted it? That has to be a joke I'm just not getting. right?!

OSUAggie
3/5/2009, 03:42 PM
Not a joke. Obviously it'll depend on who you guys draw in the 7/10, 6/11, or possibly 8/9 matchups, but I just don't think this OU team is put together very well for March.

I wouldn't be shocked if you guys made an EE type of run, but I think the guards are settling in to their typical long-term funks that will prove to be too much for Blake Griffin to overcome. If the guys on the perimeter can't make the defense pay, Griffin will get doubled and tripled and then he turns into a turnover machine.

I think you guys will get beat early due to your inability to protect the basketball.

Just my thoughts.

8timechamps
3/5/2009, 03:47 PM
Not a joke. Obviously it'll depend on who you guys draw in the 7/10, 6/11, or possibly 8/9 matchups, but I just don't think this OU team is put together very well for March.

I wouldn't be shocked if you guys made an EE type of run, but I think the guards are settling in to their typical long-term funks that will prove to be too much for Blake Griffin to overcome. If the guys on the perimeter can't make the defense pay, Griffin will get doubled and tripled and then he turns into a turnover machine.

I think you guys will get beat early due to your inability to protect the basketball.

Just my thoughts.


Honestly, when I first read your post, I thought it said it would be a mild upset if any Big XII south team makes it past the second round.

My mistake, I apologize for not being thorough.

You may actually be on to something. Like you said, it's all going to depend on A) where we end up getting seeded (not just what number, but what regional), and B) whether or not we have pulled our heads out by then.

OSUAggie
3/5/2009, 03:55 PM
Honestly, when I first read your post, I thought it said it would be a mild upset if any Big XII south team makes it past the second round.

Well, for the sake of clarity, that is what I said. Although I phrased it "make it to the 2nd weekend". That may be a bit harsh, but I really think this OU team has the ability to get beat by a 6 thru 11 seed. The next week or so will determine whether you guys are a 1 or a 3, but if the matchup is bad in the 2nd round, I would lay some cash on an upset.

----------

The ability is certainly there for a deep run, but the guys in the backcourt have proven throughout their careers that they can definitely suck for long periods of time. They can also play like AA's, so who knows.

Should be interesting to watch. I just hope the bastards picking the field find our season worthy enough of a 12-seed. In the East, of course.

badger
3/5/2009, 04:04 PM
I don't really care who the local media "talks about" more. I think they do a good job of covering both squads.
I totally agree, but of course some regional media cover some schools more than others, but that's just regionally-based.


As far as the game Saturday, I think you guys will win by 10-15. So, no, I'm not willing to make any sort of wager on the contest.
Thank you for preserving my marriage with NP. In a momentary lapse of reason, I forgot how upset he was with my last avvie bet, but I must add that my track record with resident pokes is PERFECT. You may recall a certain bet than prompted you to say "You are not our rival." ;)


But I do think it'll be a mild upset if any Big XII South teams make it to the 2nd weekend of the NCAA Tournament, and I've thought that for a month or so. I'll throw an avatar on that one, specifically regarding your Sooners.

My husband has already forbidden one on the Badlam game, but I like the idea of a more open-ended one like this, especially because I think it will happen for multiple Big 12 South teams. Hmmm... I'll camp on this idea for a week and return to this for future debate.

NormanPride
3/5/2009, 04:28 PM
Well, I'm making all my brackets for us to go out early, then. Thanks, sweetie.

soonerfan28
3/5/2009, 04:45 PM
Tony Crocker. and yes I would like to see Davis start in his spot.

NormanPride
3/5/2009, 05:05 PM
I'd say Crocker's D is better than Davis', but the whole team's is so bad what does it matter? :D

Sooner13
3/5/2009, 05:46 PM
I agree Crocker's D is better, but Davis isn't too bad on D. He might struggle against quicker guards but he does hustle and is a decent rebounder also.

badger
3/5/2009, 06:01 PM
Well, I'm making all my brackets for us to go out early, then. Thanks, sweetie.

:mad: You're lucky you'll be in N.C. during the tourney, dear. I have a 100 percent win-record in these type of bets against Pokes, much like OU has a 100 percent win record against OSU football ever since Gundy took over.

NormanPride
3/6/2009, 10:44 AM
If you jinx us any more, I will not bring back any presents from my trip. :mad:

soonerfan28
3/6/2009, 10:51 AM
Shouldn't you two handle this at home?:D

badger
3/6/2009, 11:08 AM
If you jinx us any more, I will not bring back any presents from my trip. :mad:

Fine, all bets off. :)

(but the Big 12 South is STILL going to have multiple teams in weekend two)

Eielson
3/7/2009, 01:31 AM
So, why exactly would we start Cade Davis over Tony Crocker?

I don't believe that looking at one season's shooting stats really shows you how good a shooter is, but if we did that Crocker would win in every shooting stat. Neither one are big assist or turnover guys. It also seems everybody is agreeing that Crocker is better defensively. Is this a change for the sake of change or do we have a reason here?

tommieharris91
3/7/2009, 01:46 AM
So, why exactly would we start Cade Davis over Tony Crocker?

I don't believe that looking at one season's shooting stats really shows you how good a shooter is, but if we did that Crocker would win in every shooting stat. Neither one are big assist or turnover guys. It also seems everybody is agreeing that Crocker is better defensively. Is this a change for the sake of change or do we have a reason here?

You might need to see this post again.


Let's compare this "unnamed player" and Davis

40.2% FG, 37.1% 3-pt FG, 35 assists, 54 turnovers, 29.1 min/game

Davis:
38.7% FG, 36.4% 3-pt FG, 31 assists, 9 turnovers, 15.8 min/game

Personally, I wouldn't mind Davis getting a start to see how it goes. Maybe the "unnamed player" could bring some energy and give a boost off the bench.

Sooner13
3/7/2009, 05:52 PM
Let's recap the OSU game...

Crocker
18 mins, 0-2 FG, 0-2 3-PT, 2-4 FT, 3 REB, 1 AST, 3 TO, 4 Fouls

Davis
18 mins, 1-2 FG, 0-1 3-PT, 0-0 FT, 3 REB, 2 AST, 1 BLK, 0 TO, 1 Foul

tommieharris91
3/7/2009, 06:07 PM
Let's recap the OSU game...

Crocker
18 mins, 0-2 FG, 0-2 3-PT, 2-4 FT, 3 REB, 1 AST, 3 TO, 4 Fouls

Davis
18 mins, 1-2 FG, 0-1 3-PT, 0-0 FT, 3 REB, 2 AST, 1 BLK, 0 TO, 1 Foul

The problem with sitting Crocker is that Cade is atrocious on the defensive end. Anderson was crazy today, but it was really bad when Cade was on him.

Eielson
3/7/2009, 10:59 PM
Let's recap the OSU game...

Crocker
18 mins, 0-2 FG, 0-2 3-PT, 2-4 FT, 3 REB, 1 AST, 3 TO, 4 Fouls

Davis
18 mins, 1-2 FG, 0-1 3-PT, 0-0 FT, 3 REB, 2 AST, 1 BLK, 0 TO, 1 Foul

So basically neither one did anything on offense, so the advantage goes to the better defender.

Sooner13
3/7/2009, 11:20 PM
So basically neither one did anything on offense, so the advantage goes to the better defender.

He's not that much better on the defensive end and I, personally, am sick of Crocker turning the ball over left and right. The stats DO show that.

TopDawg
3/8/2009, 12:55 AM
Well, for the sake of clarity, that is what I said. Although I phrased it "make it to the 2nd weekend". That may be a bit harsh, but I really think this OU team has the ability to get beat by a 6 thru 11 seed. The next week or so will determine whether you guys are a 1 or a 3, but if the matchup is bad in the 2nd round, I would lay some cash on an upset.

Wait, first you said it would be a mild upset if any Big XII South team made it to the Sweet 16, then you said it would take an upset to keep OU out of the Sweet 16.

Which is it?!

I see what you're saying, though. It's all about matchups in the tourney. If we face a team with guards who can pressure the ball, we might have a tough time. Mathematically, a 7 seed is right on the cusp of the Top 25, so if we're a 2 and face a 7 in the 2nd round, it's not like we're going up against a cupcake team. If they've got the right mix of talent, it could be a battle.

OSUAggie
3/8/2009, 04:11 AM
Wait, first you said it would be a mild upset if any Big XII South team made it to the Sweet 16, then you said it would take an upset to keep OU out of the Sweet 16.

Which is it?!

I see what you're saying, though. It's all about matchups in the tourney. If we face a team with guards who can pressure the ball, we might have a tough time. Mathematically, a 7 seed is right on the cusp of the Top 25, so if we're a 2 and face a 7 in the 2nd round, it's not like we're going up against a cupcake team. If they've got the right mix of talent, it could be a battle.

We're on the same page. An "upset" by seeding is what I meant.

I think you guys might need to win the tournament next week to get a 2.

WED-SAT format really sucks, BTW. Crowd will be absolutely pathetic Wed. morning.

soonerfan28
3/8/2009, 11:21 AM
We don't need to win the tourney to get a 2. We are a lock for a 2 and we'll be a 1 if we win the Big XII. If you look at what Memphis has done against top 50 and even top 25 teams they are not very good. We are set at a 2 right now.

Eielson
3/8/2009, 02:17 PM
He's not that much better on the defensive end and I, personally, am sick of Crocker turning the ball over left and right. The stats DO show that.

Not really. He turns it over about half as much as Blake, less than Willie Warren, and not a lot more than Johnson and Taylor. Patillo almost averages what Crocker does and he averages half as many minutes.

OU_Sooners75
3/9/2009, 06:41 AM
Not really. He turns it over about half as much as Blake, less than Willie Warren, and not a lot more than Johnson and Taylor. Patillo almost averages what Crocker does and he averages half as many minutes.


Now, I am not a basketball genius here...but...

Crocker is a guard playing the 3 spot, or shooting foward right?

Okay..with that established...

AJ= Point...he better be taking care of the ball better than Crocker.
Taylor= Power Foward or 4 spot...he should also be taking care of the ball.
Blake is the center. Doesn't this position usually average more TO than Assists?
Patillo is a good player, but very very raw. Too bad Capel hasn't had the first two years with him.
Warren is a shooting guard. He shoots. That is what he is there for. Shooting guards tend to have a lower TO:Assist ratio than the point.


So, with all that BS taken care of...shouldn't crocker be taking care of the ball better than Taylor Griffin, Willie Warren, and Blake Griffin...Not to mention Juan Patillo?

The thing that ticks me off the most about Crocker....only 2 of the last 11 games has scored in double figures (or at least that is what was reported agianst the pukes).

Why did we lose to Missouri? The main reason...lack of intensity. However, when the guards do not contribute to the scoring, any team in the nation is going to lose. And outside of the Texas game, our guards have been pathetic when it comes to scoring.

If we wish to make a deep run into the NCAA tourney...we will need the guards to shoot lights out and to take care of the ball!

We cannot continue to leave it up to Blake and Warren to win games for us!

stoopified
3/9/2009, 01:46 PM
You all can whine and moan about Crocker or ANYONE on this team all you want BUT if Capel is starting him there MUST be a reason.I TRUST THIS COACHING STAFF TO DO WHAT IS BEST FOR THIS TEAM.

Sooner13
3/9/2009, 04:09 PM
You all can whine and moan about Crocker or ANYONE on this team all you want BUT if Capel is starting him there MUST be a reason.I TRUST THIS COACHING STAFF TO DO WHAT IS BEST FOR THIS TEAM.

I don't think anyone was whining, just stating opinions. Nobody ever questioned Capel or the staff, just their opinion that they might like to see a change to see if it provides some sort of a boost. You can't deny the fact that the team has looked flat in the last few games since Griffin's return.

OU_Sooners75
3/10/2009, 02:52 PM
You all can whine and moan about Crocker or ANYONE on this team all you want BUT if Capel is starting him there MUST be a reason.I TRUST THIS COACHING STAFF TO DO WHAT IS BEST FOR THIS TEAM.

Nice cop out.

stoopified
3/10/2009, 04:31 PM
I don't think anyone was whining, just stating opinions. Nobody ever questioned Capel or the staff, just their opinion that they might like to see a change to see if it provides some sort of a boost. You can't deny the fact that the team has looked flat in the last few games since Griffin's return.If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck,its a duck.Complaining about Crocker or ANY player is pointless because Capel is the coach and you either trust him or you don't.

It isn't a cop out 75,it IS simply fact.

Sooner13
3/10/2009, 05:53 PM
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck,its a duck.Complaining about Crocker or ANY player is pointless because Capel is the coach and you either trust him or you don't.

It isn't a cop out 75,it IS simply fact.

How is saying that you would like to see a change in the lineup for ONE game complaining and not trusting Capel? I never said Crocker should never play again because he sucks!!!! I said simply that it might be better for the team if we had him come of the bench to see how it goes.

tru2ou
3/10/2009, 07:51 PM
Over the last seven games, Crocker is 14-39 from the field, 6-22 from three point range, and has scored a total of 45 points (6.4 ppg). I dont even want to talk about the turnovers in key situations and the fouls. His defense is over rated.

I don't understand why he is getting the minutes he is right now.

- Tru

tru2ou
3/10/2009, 07:55 PM
Also, if thi is your shooting guard or small forward, should he either be the first or second choice to shoot the ball at the end of the game?

Right now, he would be my 5th choice from 3-point range, and 7th choice for any shot.

From 3 - Willie, AJ, Cade, Midget, Crock

Any shot - Blake, Willie, AJ, Griffin, Cade, Midget, Crock.

And this is a guy who is getting the start and serious minutes? And he's in at the end of games? It must have something to do with him being a senior.

- Tru

OU_Sooners75
3/11/2009, 01:40 AM
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck,its a duck.Complaining about Crocker or ANY player is pointless because Capel is the coach and you either trust him or you don't.

It isn't a cop out 75,it IS simply fact.


First off, who is not putting their trust in Capel?

Secondly, what fact are you talking about? The fact that others have an opinion that they would like to see a different starter for a game or two?

Want a real fact? Look at the very first post on this thread. Crocker has not exactly been lighting up the scoreboard with his scoring nor is he taking care of the ball.

Stop acting like people are questioning Capel's judgement. They are simply stating that they would like to see someone get the start and see if Crocker can come in off the bench to create a spark or even play better. And I tend to agree with them.

Sometimes it can be very helpful for a player to come off the bench instead of starting for a multiple of reasons.

Also, from what I have seen, his defense has not exactly been stellar either.

OU_Sooners75
3/11/2009, 01:42 AM
Also, if thi is your shooting guard or small forward, should he either be the first or second choice to shoot the ball at the end of the game?

Right now, he would be my 5th choice from 3-point range, and 7th choice for any shot.

From 3 - Willie, AJ, Cade, Midget, Crock

Any shot - Blake, Willie, AJ, Griffin, Cade, Midget, Crock.

And this is a guy who is getting the start and serious minutes? And he's in at the end of games? It must have something to do with him being a senior.

- Tru

Crocker is a Junior.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/11/2009, 09:02 AM
I know it is often about "what have you done for me lately" but if nothing else I cut Crocker some slack for a couple reasons. 1. When Sampson's big time recruiting class with Reynolds,James, etc was unraveling Crocker stepped forward and said I AM A SOONER, PERIOD. 2. After that Baylor game last year when he took the team on his shoulders the last couple minutes he has earned the right to think he can deliver in the big spots.

I'm not saying that I don't have some concerns about his play of late but since the title of the thread is Getting a Pass I would say yes, a little but for good reason.

Eielson
3/11/2009, 04:25 PM
Right now, he would be my 5th choice from 3-point range

From 3 - Willie, AJ, Cade, Midget, Crock


That's crazy. Crocker would be my first choice to shoot a three.

tru2ou
3/11/2009, 08:29 PM
That's crazy. Crocker would be my first choice to shoot a three.

I think most people would disagree. Especially right now in the season. Crocker has not been shooting well and I would trust others a lot more than him on a shot that was game tying or winning at the end.

- Tru

Sooner13
3/11/2009, 10:06 PM
That's crazy. Crocker would be my first choice to shoot a three.

Maybe you're crazy.

Since hitting 7-11 3-Pt attempts against Colorado on 2/7 Crocker is (over 7 games) 6-26, or about 23%.

OU_Sooners75
3/12/2009, 01:19 AM
That's crazy. Crocker would be my first choice to shoot a three.


I would only agree if he is having a great shooting night. However, in the last 11 games...that has only happened 2 times.

Yeah, he drops IMHO to take the shot when the game is on the line.

soonerfan28
3/12/2009, 09:21 AM
Crocker has a nice shot from the baseline, but his three has fallen off late in the season. If he could get that back then that would be great.

humblesooner
3/12/2009, 10:37 AM
If we wish to make a deep run into the NCAA tourney...we will need the guards to shoot lights out and to take care of the ball!

We cannot continue to leave it up to Blake and Warren to win games for us!

Not trying to pile on, but I just saw this as a contradiction.
In my opinion, WW is the key to OU's Success in the NCAA tourney.
Subject to everyone else staying healthy, of course.
Willie has the ability to take over a game at the end, but he also has the wisdom and patience to not force it if something else (Blake = 40 pts, AJ shooting lights out, Taylor taking advantage of Blake being double-teamed, etc) is already working.

humblesooner
3/12/2009, 10:38 AM
**double post**

OU_Sooners75
3/13/2009, 04:44 AM
Not trying to pile on, but I just saw this as a contradiction.
In my opinion, WW is the key to OU's Success in the NCAA tourney.
Subject to everyone else staying healthy, of course.
Willie has the ability to take over a game at the end, but he also has the wisdom and patience to not force it if something else (Blake = 40 pts, AJ shooting lights out, Taylor taking advantage of Blake being double-teamed, etc) is already working.


Not sure if you seen it or not....

Guards...not guard.

Big difference. If we want to make a deep run in the Tourney...we must have our guards (meaning AJ, TC, WW, OL) all to be shooting well and taking care of the ball, not just Warren.

stoopified
3/27/2009, 09:21 PM
Looks like Capel does know what he is doing ,no matter how many people DO question his judgement.

soonerfan28
3/27/2009, 09:28 PM
I have doubted Crocker in the past, but the way that he has played defense since shutting down James Anderson I am glad that Capel has given him time to find his shot. He was big on both ends tonight. Way to go!

Eielson
3/27/2009, 09:43 PM
Maybe you're crazy.

MAYBE YOU'RE CRAZY!

tru2ou
3/28/2009, 07:56 AM
I'm extremely happy he played well tonight and I hope he can continue it for more than one game. My problem hasnt been on the defensive end, it was on the offensive with his shooting and careless turnovers.

You can see how tough OU is to beat when they have a guy out there knocking down shots.

Congrats Tony, now keep it going for a few games.

- tru

XingTheRubicon
3/28/2009, 09:21 AM
Looks like Capel does know what he is doing ,no matter how many people DO question his judgement.

I'm sure Jeff lost a lot of sleep over this thread.

Sooner13
3/28/2009, 09:59 AM
So two weeks later and some of you still apparently missed the point. Nobody ever said Crocker should be benched or permanently displaced from the starting lineup. Nobody questions Capel's judgement. It was merely a suggestion that maybe the starting lineup should be tweaked. Jeez...

Eielson
3/28/2009, 10:53 AM
So two weeks later and some of you still apparently missed the point. Nobody ever said Crocker should be benched or permanently displaced from the starting lineup. Nobody questions Capel's judgement. It was merely a suggestion that maybe the starting lineup should be tweaked. Jeez...

No, we didn't miss the point. You wanted to see Cade Davis start over the "unnamed player."

Oh, and what does "Nobody ever said Crocker should be benched...it was merely a suggestion that maybe the starting lineup should be tweaked" mean? I don't see how that makes sense.

TopDawg
3/28/2009, 02:22 PM
Winning in the tournament is what's important. Capel's reluctance to sit Crocker earlier may've cost us some games in February or early March, but his management of this team (which includes the Crocker situation but a whole lot more) has us on the verge of the Final Four.

Sooner13
3/28/2009, 03:01 PM
No, we didn't miss the point. You wanted to see Cade Davis start over the "unnamed player."

Oh, and what does "Nobody ever said Crocker should be benched...it was merely a suggestion that maybe the starting lineup should be tweaked" mean? I don't see how that makes sense.

Then I will have to question your intelligence. Being taken out of the starting lineup does not mean being benched. Getting benched means you do not play anymore. Does that make more sense to you now?

Eielson
3/28/2009, 03:32 PM
Then I will have to question your intelligence. Being taken out of the starting lineup does not mean being benched. Getting benched means you do not play anymore. Does that make more sense to you now?

That isn't what benched means.

Sooner13
3/28/2009, 03:33 PM
That isn't what benched means.

Um ok, enlighten me.

Eielson
3/28/2009, 06:35 PM
Um ok, enlighten me.

Let's say we start Davis over Crocker, that would be benching him.

Also, when you're taken out of a game, that is being benched. Being benched generally has a negative connotation so I'm not sure if what we do with Blake at around the 12 minute mark would count as being benched. I think it probably is, though, we just don't usually use that word.

Frozen Sooner
3/28/2009, 06:45 PM
Being taken out of the starting lineup does not mean being benched.

Yes, actually, it does. That's why they refer to points scored by non-starters as "bench points" and teams that have a lot of players who contribute but don't start as having a "long bench."

Sooner13
3/28/2009, 07:04 PM
Yes, actually, it does. That's why they refer to points scored by non-starters as "bench points" and teams that have a lot of players who contribute but don't start as having a "long bench."

Sorry when I hear of someone being benched I think of it as being taken out without the intent of putting that player back in.

Sooner13
3/28/2009, 07:18 PM
Let's say we start Davis over Crocker, that would be benching him.

Also, when you're taken out of a game, that is being benched. Being benched generally has a negative connotation so I'm not sure if what we do with Blake at around the 12 minute mark would count as being benched. I think it probably is, though, we just don't usually use that word.

This is absolutely wrong. That situation would be considered getting rest, taking a breather, etc...

StoopTroup
3/28/2009, 07:34 PM
Some players play really good in practice but you put them in the starting lineup and they go into a coma.

Others might be hit and miss but you put them in a starting position as they play the same no matter what.

Stat's might make you think you know what your doing but studying great Coaches like Jeff Capel has obviously done seems to payoff once you build up your own program with players you can relate to.

You can call this a cop out...or you can learn something about human nature.

Against Syracuse...Crocker came out of his shell. I hope he continues to draw attention as it will hopefully leave others open. He might not have another Career night like last nights ever again...I'm just thankful he did it.

Lots of bull****ting in this thread IMO.

Frozen Sooner
3/28/2009, 07:56 PM
Sorry when I hear of someone being benched I think of it as being taken out without the intent of putting that player back in.

That's well and good, but you should probably realize that most people think that when someone who was a starter is no longer a starter, they've been benched.

Helps communication quite a bit when people are using the same word to denote the same referent.

Eielson
3/28/2009, 08:58 PM
This is absolutely wrong. That situation would be considered getting rest, taking a breather, etc...

If you choose to use postitive connotation...

theresonly1OU
3/29/2009, 12:07 AM
Helps communication quite a bit when people are using the same word to denote the same referent.

Apparently, It depends on what your definition of "is" is.

tru2ou
3/30/2009, 09:07 AM
Well, I appreciate Tony's performance against Syracuse, it was obviously not his normal performance but it came at the right time. It's too bad he couldn't do it for mroe than one game in a row all season.

Don't get me wrong, I think Tony seems like a good guy and tries hard on the court but I don't think he's a big time shooter and he needs to realize that fact. He is a role player and his role is to defend. If you get points out of your role players, its a plus. I'll never understand the turnovers and crazy fouls he gets but I can live with that as long as he doesnt continue to shoot the ball when he is ice cold. Try driving the lane and drawing some fouls or something. He's 6'6" so go inside once in a while. Taylor was only 6'7" and he did some dirty work inside.

Overall it was a good season and I appreciate Blake staying to make this run with his brother.

- tru

Eielson
3/30/2009, 04:35 PM
I think that last year he showed he can shoot. It just wasn't always there for him this year.

Those sleeves are a curse.

Sooner13
3/31/2009, 12:11 AM
I think that last year he showed he can shoot. It just wasn't always there for him this year.

Those sleeves are a curse.

So you finally agree that he is horribly inconsistent?

Rock Hard Corn Frog
3/31/2009, 08:46 AM
I think with the effort that Crocker gives on defense it makes it apparent he has a good work ethic. I also think he is smart enough to know that he needs to improve his outside shooting in order to help the team next year. My guess is he will put in a lot of work in that area.

Since the season is over it is probably moot at this point.

At this point as much as I like Cade Davis and I think he will contribute my guess is that come November Crocker will be in the starting line-up and that is probably the way it should be.

Sooner13
3/31/2009, 09:03 AM
I think with the effort that Crocker gives on defense it makes it apparent he has a good work ethic. I also think he is smart enough to know that he needs to improve his outside shooting in order to help the team next year. My guess is he will put in a lot of work in that area.

Since the season is over it is probably moot at this point.

At this point as much as I like Cade Davis and I think he will contribute my guess is that come November Crocker will be in the starting line-up and that is probably the way it should be.

I actually agree. He really stepped up on the defensive side beginning with the OSU game in Norman. Like others have stated, when he isn't shooting well he needs to drive to the basket a little more IMO.

Eielson
3/31/2009, 04:10 PM
So you finally agree that he is horribly inconsistent?

Would you give it up already? Danny Green proved yet again why we have to have Crocker in the lineup.

Sooner13
3/31/2009, 04:17 PM
Would you give it up already? Danny Green proved yet again why we have to have Crocker in the lineup.

read before you post...see above