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soonerfan28
3/2/2009, 02:07 PM
#4 and #5.
ESPN/USA Today Poll
1. Connecticut (27) 27-2 769
2. North Carolina 25-3 711
3. Memphis (4) 26-3 698
4. Pittsburgh 26-3 667
5. Oklahoma 26-3 653
6. Louisville 23-5 630
7. Duke 24-5 597
8. Michigan State 23-5 557
9. Kansas 24-5 509
10. Wake Forest 22-5 480
11. LSU 25-4 420
12. Missouri 24-5 377
13. Washington 22-7 346
14. Gonzaga 23-5 339
15. Marquette 23-6 327
16. Villanova 23-6 324
17. UCLA 22-7 295
18. Xavier 23-5 260
19. Clemson 22-6 219
20. Purdue 22-7 211
21. Arizona State 21-7 189
22. Butler 25-4 168
23. Illinois 23-7 107
24. Florida State 22-7 67
25. Syracuse 21-8 37

AP Top 25
1. Connecticut (67) 27-2 1,792
2. North Carolina (3) 25-3 1,678
3. Pittsburgh (1) 26-3 1,612
4. Oklahoma 26-3 1,576
5. Memphis (1) 26-3 1,543
6. Louisville 23-5 1,462
7. Duke 24-5 1,340
8. Michigan State 23-5 1,302
9. Kansas 24-5 1,190
10. Wake Forest 22-5 1,158
11. Villanova 23-6 913
12. LSU 25-4 894
13. Marquette 23-6 860
14. Gonzaga 23-5 837
15. Missouri 24-5 795
16. Washington 22-7 704
17. Xavier 23-5 629
18. Clemson 22-6 564
19. Purdue 22-7 545
20. UCLA 22-7 497
21. Arizona State 21-7 347
22. Butler 25-4 302
23. Illinois 23-7 287
24. Florida State 22-7 272
25. Syracuse 21-8 99

Memphis is not good enough to be ranked that high. I hope UCONN beats Pitt so that we can secure that #1 seed when we win out.

badger
3/2/2009, 02:18 PM
As token woman poster, I shall now post the token women's poll:

With the loss to a team full of thugs (as opposed to singular thug, which is OSU) in Texas A&M, OU drops to No. 3. The Conn remains undisputed No. 1, followed by Stanford.

Other Big 12 teams include Baylor (5) Aggie (10), Texas (15), Iowa State (23). Despite Aggy's attempt to at-large with a strong showing in Norman, they received no votes whatsoever in the poll. No other Big 12 teams had any votes than the five mentioned above.

soonerfan28
3/2/2009, 02:30 PM
This may be the best season in the history of Big 12 womens basketball.

Collier11
3/2/2009, 03:03 PM
There were some good ones in the early 2000s

Readyfor8
3/2/2009, 07:39 PM
I understand the argument for OU not being ranked above the ACC/Big East teams, in the fact that we play in the Big XII and it is down this year.

But Memphis? Conference USA? Seriously? How in gods name are they ranked that high by the Coaches.

Collier11
3/3/2009, 01:00 AM
because the coaches think they are better? Just a guess...

starclassic tama
3/3/2009, 01:12 AM
yeah and it's not like they were a missed 3-pointer away from being defending national champs or anything

badger
3/3/2009, 08:38 AM
The men will get the chance to prove that they were off only because Blake was gone when they once again (likely) take on either one or both of the teams they lost to this past week. Winning the Big 12 tourney will prove that those wins by KU and UT were flukes.

The women just need to make the Big 12 championship game to earn a one-seed, IMHO. One-seeds are a lot more important on the women's side, just because of how their bracket is setup. For the men, it's almost better to have a 2.

SoonerDood
3/3/2009, 08:47 AM
yeah and it's not like they were a missed 3-pointer away from being defending national champs or anything
who is still left from LAST SEASON'S team?

8timechamps
3/3/2009, 09:22 AM
Memphis has moved up the rankings on reputation alone.

There are a lot of pollsters out there that stand by the "if they were #2 last year, then they should be highly ranked this year" philosophy.

Not to mention that coach Calipari carries a lot of weight.

CUSA actually isn't as bad a conference as many think this year. Memphis is the clear power in the conferece, but I suspect the conference will end up with three, maybe four teams in the big dance.

Memphis
UAB (played us hard in the pre season NIT)
Houston
Tulsa (has beaten UTEP both times they've played)

Some "experts" think that UTEP could get a look over Houston or Tulsa, depending on how they show in the CUSA tourny.

soonerfan28
3/3/2009, 09:34 AM
Memphis lost Joey Dorsey, Derrick Rose, and Chris Douglas-Roberts from last years team. They returned Robert Dozier and Antonio Anderson this year and they added Tyreke Evans to this years squad and the have Shawn Taggart. My only problem is they haven't played anybody this year like a Tennessee from last year that makes their NCAA resume look good. I think with Xavier Henry coming in next year and if Evans stays then they could be a really good team next year, but right now they are a #2 seed at best this year.

badger
3/3/2009, 09:40 AM
Tulsa (has beaten Memphis both times they've played)

Derp? I know that the Tulsa home game came down to a last second shot, but it was still a loss and Memphis has like a 60-game winning streak in C-USA, right?

You mention the C-USA tourney. I think they move that thing to Tulsa next year, right? It's too bad they couldn't move it this year. Memphis' monopoly on C-USA has to end. Ever since the Big East became a 16-team uber bball conference, conferences that it raided like C-USA have been kind of off. Sure, that raiding allowed schools like Tulsa to move out of the WAC, but it's time for some balance. We don't need another conference like the Pac 10 during football season.

8timechamps
3/3/2009, 09:40 AM
Memphis hasn't played any major opponents this season, but it wasn't for lack of trying. Before the season started, they appeard to have a tough schedule. Who knew that Tennessee and Georgetown would play so poorly.

I agree with you, a #2 seed would probably be a little more than they deserve, but if we don't take care of business, they could take our place as a 1 seed.

8timechamps
3/3/2009, 09:44 AM
Derp? I know that the Tulsa home game came down to a last second shot, but it was still a loss and Memphis has like a 60-game winning streak in C-USA, right?

Yer right. I had it backwards. I was looking at the UTEP/Tulsa games.


You mention the C-USA tourney. I think they move that thing to Tulsa next year, right? It's too bad they couldn't move it this year. Memphis' monopoly on C-USA has to end. Ever since the Big East became a 16-team uber bball conference, conferences that it raided like C-USA have been kind of off. Sure, that raiding allowed schools like Tulsa to move out of the WAC, but it's time for some balance. We don't need another conference like the Pac 10 during football season.

Yep. CUSA is, and always will be a mid-major regardless of what the original intent was. Even in football, they don't (and shouldn't) get the same respect as a major conference.

soonerfan28
3/3/2009, 09:45 AM
It's not shocking to me that Calipari didn't want to come to OU. Why would you when you can dominate C-USA. Has he ever coached in a tough conference?

8timechamps
3/3/2009, 09:48 AM
Has he ever coached in a tough conference?

Nope!

I was the driver on the bandwagon to get him here. Now that time has passed, you can tell his M.O. is to win at mediocre schools in weak conferences.

To his credit, he's made a nice career out of it.

badger
3/3/2009, 09:53 AM
Just to be clear. After a year of mostly positive experience, in which I had decided to become an Elite Sponsor, I started the Hollis Board... blah blah blah...

Just to REALLY be clear, I think that other than the prestige of being No. 1 in the bracket, why not take a 2-seed?

First round: 2 plays 15.
Result: 15 pretty much equals 16. WIN!

Second round: 2 plays 10 (while 1 plays 8)
Details: The 10-seed always beats the 7-seed, thus the game in front of you now. The mid-major wonder's season ends as a powerful 2-seed wins. However, the 8-seed is a big conf. team that is better than many mid-major champions.
Result: 1 loses to 8. 2 beats 10. WIN!

Thus, 1 loses in round 2 (sound familiar, Duke?) 2 guaranteed to go the Sweet 16.

soonerfan28
3/3/2009, 09:55 AM
I think it's the prestige of having that #1 seed.

8timechamps
3/3/2009, 09:56 AM
The only thing about being a 1 seed that take I note of is the potential 1 v. 2 matchup in the Elite 8. Not to mention a 1 seed has never lost a first round game.

For some reason, being a 2 seed this year really scares me.

badger
3/3/2009, 10:00 AM
For some reason, being a 2 seed this year really scares me.

Don't be skerred. We were a 2-seed in 2002, remember?
http://images.usatoday.com/sports/college/_photos/2002-03-23-inside-okla.jpg
Mizzou as our Elite Eight opponent that year. Tee hee :D

soonerfan28
3/3/2009, 10:00 AM
Badger, you have somehow brainwashed me into wanting a #2 seed now, so to you I say thanks a lot.

8timechamps
3/3/2009, 10:06 AM
Badger, you have somehow brainwashed me into wanting a #2 seed now, so to you I say thanks a lot.

Noooooooo!!

Just think Richmond/Syracuse

This is old, but still holds true click me (http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney06/insider/news/story?id=2353126&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb %2fncaatourney06%2finsider%2fnews%2fstory%3fid%3d2 353126)

badger
3/3/2009, 10:10 AM
See, before I could brainwash 28, I had to brainwash myself first, because I wasn't sure how long Blake would be out and I wasn't sure how he would be if he returned. Thus, I created artificial reasons why a two-seed was so awesome.

Truth be told, I still want to be a No. 1. There's history involved (OU having TWO one-seeds in the same year???), 1's generally have success in the tourney (but usually for being d@mn good, not because they have a #1 attached to them) and it's nice to have that recognition.

Everything hinges on the Big 12 tourney at this point. If you can take a week off work and attend, it should be a good one this year!

soonerfan28
3/3/2009, 10:14 AM
I guess if we do get a #1 seed the we better hope that the #9 wins because the odds look good for beating that #9.

8timechamps
3/3/2009, 10:24 AM
The major difference in being a one versus a two is the quality of opponent.

Historically, the 16 seeds are teams that are either from conferences so small, nobody has seen them on TV (because they've never been televised), or they are from tiny conferences and upset a highly ranked RPI team along the way (either way, they are only in because they won their conference tourny).

The 15 seed is a whole different animal. The problem is that 15 seeds have a history of beating 2 seeds (albeit a small history), but the problem comes with the second or thrid round. Your chances are greater that you end up playing one of the 11 or 14 seeds that are on fire, and can (and do) upset 2 seeds.

NormanPride
3/3/2009, 10:46 AM
we need not think about seed numbers, but seed placement. Who do we match up best against? Is it one of the other one seeds? Then we want the two seed that corresponds with that one seed. Is it a two seed? Then we want that one seed where we get to play the two. Personally, I want Duke. They're going to be a 2, it looks like, so we need to be a 1 somewhere. But I DON'T WANT THE LAST ONE. They get Louisville, and they're bad juju for us.

tommieharris91
3/3/2009, 11:04 AM
Memphis has moved up the rankings on reputation alone.

There are a lot of pollsters out there that stand by the "if they were #2 last year, then they should be highly ranked this year" philosophy.

Not to mention that coach Calipari carries a lot of weight.

CUSA actually isn't as bad a conference as many think this year. Memphis is the clear power in the conferece, but I suspect the conference will end up with three, maybe four teams in the big dance.

Memphis
UAB (played us hard in the pre season NIT)
Houston
Tulsa (has beaten UTEP both times they've played)

Some "experts" think that UTEP could get a look over Houston or Tulsa, depending on how they show in the CUSA tourny.

Which "experts" say any team other than Memphis gets into the big dance? You can't seriously think that CUSA will get 3 teams in. The only way that conference gets 2 in is if Memphis doesn't win the conference tournament.

Tulsa has more bad losses than good wins.
UAB has a severe lack of good wins. If OSU's resume isn't tournament worthy, how is UAB's?
Houston? Only good win is against UAB, too many bad losses.
UTEP? Some bad losses, no wins against teams in the RPI top 50.

Readyfor8
3/3/2009, 02:04 PM
we need not think about seed numbers, but seed placement. Who do we match up best against? Is it one of the other one seeds? Then we want the two seed that corresponds with that one seed. Is it a two seed? Then we want that one seed where we get to play the two. Personally, I want Duke. They're going to be a 2, it looks like, so we need to be a 1 somewhere. But I DON'T WANT THE LAST ONE. They get Louisville, and they're bad juju for us.

There is a good chance that we will be a 1 seed, and that will be in the South Region. Which means to get to the Final Four, in the worst scenario possible out of that bracket we would have to play Louisville, in Memphis, which would be a Home game for them. Like us playing in Dallas.


As for Memphis, the coaches think they are better than Pitt? I can almost understand them putting them above us, but Pitt beat UCONN at UCONN. How can you put a Memphis team with the same amount of Losses ahead of that Pitt Team?

I think it's the 4 bullets next to the name, I think the Mid Major votes all voted Memphis high in an effort to the Mid Major's some love. It has no basis in reality on who is playing better than whom.

boomersooner28
3/3/2009, 02:09 PM
Does anyone realize how many games Blake has left in an OU jersey? Yeah, not many. :(

Sorry about the depression.

badger
3/3/2009, 02:34 PM
Come on, BS-28 (I have to differentiate the 28's it seems: BS-28 and SF-28!), didn't you hear when Blake Griffin said that he was planning to stay another year?

:confused: I remember reading that and we all had a good chuckle, but now I can't seem to find the link. I know none of us believe he'll stay, but he did say that's the way he's leaning now! Where is that article?! :confused:

8timechamps
3/3/2009, 02:53 PM
Which "experts" say any team other than Memphis gets into the big dance? You can't seriously think that CUSA will get 3 teams in. The only way that conference gets 2 in is if Memphis doesn't win the conference tournament.

Tulsa has more bad losses than good wins.
UAB has a severe lack of good wins. If OSU's resume isn't tournament worthy, how is UAB's?
Houston? Only good win is against UAB, too many bad losses.
UTEP? Some bad losses, no wins against teams in the RPI top 50.

Heard it yesterday on College Gameday Final.

UAB - Their (ESPN) thinking (and I tend to agree) is that UAB has played themselves into consideration. Although they lost to OU, the only lost by 10 'on the road'. They beat Arizona at their place, and have good overall record at 20-9. I think they have to play in the conference tournament final to have a shot.

Memphis - No brainer

As for Houston, UTEP and Tulsa, I think one of the three will get an invite. Although CUSA is a mid-major, I think the lack of quality from some of the major conferences will lead to three invitations.

I agree 100% with Memphis and UAB making it. As for the others, there is an argument for and against.

As for OSU, who says they aren't getting an invite? I personally could care less whether they do or not.

tommieharris91
3/3/2009, 03:05 PM
Heard it yesterday on College Gameday Final.

UAB - Their (ESPN) thinking (and I tend to agree) is that UAB has played themselves into consideration. Although they lost to OU, the only lost by 10 'on the road'. They beat Arizona at their place, and have good overall record at 20-9. I think they have to play in the conference tournament final to have a shot.

Memphis - No brainer

As for Houston, UTEP and Tulsa, I think one of the three will get an invite. Although CUSA is a mid-major, I think the lack of quality from some of the major conferences will lead to three invitations.

I agree 100% with Memphis and UAB making it. As for the others, there is an argument for and against.

As for OSU, who says they aren't getting an invite? I personally could care less whether they do or not.

Neither Lunardi nor Palm have anyone from CUSA even considered outside of Memphis. UAB, Houston, Tulsa, and UTEP are so far off the radar that none of them are in Lunardi's first 8 out, on Schlabach's Bubble Watch, or on Palm's Fence Sitters pages. I have no idea which "expert" said that, but they shouldn't be an expert if they think anyone out of CUSA deserves an at-large bid outside of Memphis.

8timechamps
3/3/2009, 03:13 PM
Neither Lunardi nor Palm have anyone from CUSA even considered outside of Memphis. UAB, Houston, Tulsa, and UTEP are so far off the radar that none of them are in Lunardi's first 8 out, on Schlabach's Bubble Watch, or on Palm's Fence Sitters pages. I have no idea which "expert" said that, but they shouldn't be an expert if they think anyone out of CUSA deserves an at-large bid outside of Memphis.

I really don't remember who said it (could have been Digger). I take stock in Lunardi's predictions, but that's about the only one.

Then again, Lunardi has the PAC 10 getting 5 teams in. If that's the case, then he has Arizona in...a team UAB beat (and has a higher RPI rating).

Seriously, are you that surprised someone on ESPN made a prediction that seems that far off?

I think CUSA will get at least two teams in (including one at-large bid). As for three, well that may just be me 'being me'.

Collier11
3/3/2009, 03:15 PM
Unless one wins the conf tourney, Memphis is the only team getting in from CUSA.

We can all dog Memphis for being so highly ranked but look what they lost after going to the natl title game and they are back to 27-3 or something like that

8timechamps
3/3/2009, 03:22 PM
I'm tellin' ya, UAB is gonna get to dance.

I wouldn't bet my house on it!



In all seriousness, I do think UAB gets an at-large bid. And, I don't think Tulsa is as far away from one as you guys do.

Collier11
3/3/2009, 03:53 PM
UAB is #41 in RPI, a SOS of #65. Tulsa is #62 and #85. Between the two of them, they have beaten ONE team ranked higher than them in the RPI. Neither team is getting in and its not even close

8timechamps
3/3/2009, 03:58 PM
It's much closer than you think. UAB has a better case than some of the (big conference) teams. Plus, if we are deciding who is getting in based soley on RPI, there are several teams that are considered "in" that wouldn't be. Arizona being the first.

According to The Memphis Commerical Appeal, Lunardi has Tulsa 12 spots out and UAB 13. Given the upsets that are bound to happen over the next two weeks, I would't consider far fetched that one could get in.

Sooner04
3/3/2009, 04:20 PM
In all seriousness, I do think UAB gets an at-large bid. And, I don't think Tulsa is as far away from one as you guys do.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y258/KingpinPadre/g655115633g6.gif

8timechamps
3/3/2009, 04:29 PM
Just you wait...

8timechamps
3/3/2009, 04:42 PM
I don't know why I spend so much time looking at the talking head's brackets, but after looking at Lunardi's bracketology today, I noticed that he has 2 teams from the A-10 in this year. Funny how most won't give UAB much of a look (although I am not backing down that they will get a bid), but guys like Lunardi will pick two A-10 teams.

What's even more odd is that the two teams are Xavier (who deserves to be in) and Dayton. DAYTON?! Rhode Island is in second place in the A-10 (out by 1/2 a game) yet he picks Dayton over the Rams.

Like I said, Lunardi is about the only dude I pay attention to, but this is just odd.

there there
3/3/2009, 04:57 PM
There is a good chance that we will be a 1 seed, and that will be in the South Region.

Why does everyone say we will be in the South Region? Lunardi says that too, but it makes more sense to me for UNC to be in the South and OU in the West.

Collier11
3/3/2009, 05:00 PM
It's much closer than you think. UAB has a better case than some of the (big conference) teams. Plus, if we are deciding who is getting in based soley on RPI, there are several teams that are considered "in" that wouldn't be. Arizona being the first.

According to The Memphis Commerical Appeal, Lunardi has Tulsa 12 spots out and UAB 13. Given the upsets that are bound to happen over the next two weeks, I would't consider far fetched that one could get in.

NO

Arizona has wins over San Diego St, Gonzaga, Kansas, Weber ST, Wash, and UCLA. UAB has wins over Arizona and thats it

UABs RPI is higher but Zonas SOS is 34 while UABs is 65

tommieharris91
3/3/2009, 05:07 PM
Lunardi is the worst bracket maker out there. Palm actually gets all the teams right.

As for Dayton, 24-5 RPI of 27, wins over Marquette, Xavier, and Temple, but losses @UMass, @Charlotte, and @Saint Louis. Yea, they're a bubbler, but they get in over 22-8, RPI of 54 Rhode Island. URI has 2 wins over RPI top 50 teams (Dayton and Temple), but one loss to a team with a triple-digit rating and a 3OT loss @St. Joe's, who sports an RPI of 98.

As for being 12 or 13 spots out of an NCAA bid, that is actually pretty tough to overcome. Come on, you have to have a lot go your way if your that far out to begin with. Needing to leapfrog 12 or 13 teams is not that easy at all. Both UAB and Tulsa are done playing Memphis until the conference tourney. There goes the best chance to get a quality win that both teams need.

tommieharris91
3/3/2009, 05:11 PM
Why does everyone say we will be in the South Region? Lunardi says that too, but it makes more sense to me for UNC to be in the South and OU in the West.

Glendale and Memphis are about the same distance from Norman. I've also seen shipping Pitt westward and giving UNC the Indy regional.

BTW, Palm has OU as the #1 in the West.

8timechamps
3/3/2009, 06:06 PM
Lunardi is the worst bracket maker out there. Palm actually gets all the teams right.

As for Dayton, 24-5 RPI of 27, wins over Marquette, Xavier, and Temple, but losses @UMass, @Charlotte, and @Saint Louis. Yea, they're a bubbler, but they get in over 22-8, RPI of 54 Rhode Island. URI has 2 wins over RPI top 50 teams (Dayton and Temple), but one loss to a team with a triple-digit rating and a 3OT loss @St. Joe's, who sports an RPI of 98.

As for being 12 or 13 spots out of an NCAA bid, that is actually pretty tough to overcome. Come on, you have to have a lot go your way if your that far out to begin with. Needing to leapfrog 12 or 13 teams is not that easy at all. Both UAB and Tulsa are done playing Memphis until the conference tourney. There goes the best chance to get a quality win that both teams need.


I'll agree that 12 or 13 spots are tough to overcome. And, the best chance for them is the conference tournament. I still think CUSA is a good enough conference to get at least two teams in. Now, whether or not that happens is a different story.

As for Lunardi and his bracketing skills, I'd say he's as good as most. None of them know exactly which teams will be there and what seeds they will be. The committee itself won't know until after Saturday's campionship games.

Until then, it's all speculation. For the experts, and us regular folk.

8timechamps
3/3/2009, 06:09 PM
NO

Arizona has wins over San Diego St, Gonzaga, Kansas, Weber ST, Wash, and UCLA. UAB has wins over Arizona and thats it

UABs RPI is higher but Zonas SOS is 34 while UABs is 65

No.. Because I say so.

soonerfan28
3/4/2009, 06:57 PM
Come on, BS-28 (I have to differentiate the 28's it seems: BS-28 and SF-28!), didn't you hear when Blake Griffin said that he was planning to stay another year?

:confused: I remember reading that and we all had a good chuckle, but now I can't seem to find the link. I know none of us believe he'll stay, but he did say that's the way he's leaning now! Where is that article?! :confused:

Badger, he did say that on soonersports.com. I think it was something called Blake's mailbag or something like that. I think the longer the season goes the more I can convince myself that he'll come back. I think the only reason he wouldn't is because the cheap shots that he take every time he's on the court.

8timechamps
3/4/2009, 07:48 PM
Badger, he did say that on soonersports.com. I think it was something called Blake's mailbag or something like that. I think the longer the season goes the more I can convince myself that he'll come back. I think the only reason he wouldn't is because the cheap shots that he take every time he's on the court.

As much as I would hate it (right now), I think if this team falls short of the Final Four, that could go a long way in attracting him to return.

tommieharris91
3/5/2009, 12:45 AM
After the suckfest that went on in the SEC tonight, I'm going to take back what I said about UAB. Only UAB, though.

Collier11
3/5/2009, 10:00 AM
UAB just lost to Utep by 18 lastnite, FYI...they arent getting in

badger
3/5/2009, 10:08 AM
I really don't care about rankings, or RPI, or strength of schedule, or anything else at this point when it comes to who's in and who's out.

The fact of the matter is that the only thing that now matters to the who's in, who's out argument is each team's respective conference tourney. When KS ended his streak of Dance trips, it was because we didn't make it past the second round of the Big 12 tourney. A poor showing by bubble teams in the tourney equals NIT, CBI or none of the above.

tommieharris91
3/15/2009, 05:46 PM
So I'm looking at the bracket and I don't see UAB or Tulsa...

Collier11
3/15/2009, 05:47 PM
thats cus they didnt get in and didnt deserve to

8timechamps
3/15/2009, 05:47 PM
So I'm looking at the bracket and I don't see UAB or Tulsa...

They are playing in the Dubai NCAA tournament.

I'll eat the crow.