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8timechamps
2/21/2009, 11:00 PM
We are a good team even without Blake. We just aren't a great without him.

Willie kept us in the game, and AJ dished well late.

I don't mind a loss late (especially on the road). I only pray we get Texas again in the tournament, and I'm sure Blake will be ready.

This loss may have cost us a #1 seed.

MI Sooner
2/21/2009, 11:09 PM
We are a good team even without Blake. We just aren't a great without him.

Willie kept us in the game, and AJ dished well late.

I don't mind a loss late (especially on the road). I only pray we get Texas again in the tournament, and I'm sure Blake will be ready.

This loss may have cost us a #1 seed.

Pitt, UConn, UNC, and???? Memphis? Who is the fourth one seed?

Secondly, this was one of our best games of the year. Texas played well (few T/Os, shot well, etc.), I, being a Sooner fan, think they got most of the calls, and they still barely won at home. Texas has the talent to be a top 5 to top 10 team. Tonight, the played like one. We still almost beat them, on the road, with suspect officiating. I don't know what your definition of "great team" is, but we played like a top-10 team without Blake Griffin tonight.

Also, Willie Warren is the best player in the country... next year.

tommieharris91
2/21/2009, 11:17 PM
Pitt, UConn, UNC, and???? Memphis? Who is the fourth one seed?

Secondly, this was one of our best games of the year. Texas played well (few T/Os, shot well, etc.), I, being a Sooner fan, think they got most of the calls, and they still barely won at home. Texas has the talent to be a top 5 to top 10 team. Tonight, the played like one. We still almost beat them, on the road, with suspect officiating. I don't know what your definition of "great team" is, but we played like a top-10 team without Blake Griffin tonight.

Also, Willie Warren is the best player in the country... next year.

After UNC lost, I wouldn't put them with Pitt and UConn.

GrapevineSooner
2/21/2009, 11:21 PM
If OU runs the table in the Big 12 and finishes with a 15-1 record in the Big 12 Conference, it'll be hard to deny them a number 1 seed. Especially if they go on to win the Big 12 Tourney in OKC.

They could have easily folded the tents and called it a night once Texas went up by 12.

But they didn't. And it took A.J. Abrams saving the Horns from a huge win and deflating loss for one of our hated rivals.

Just rerack for Monday night, go out and beat KU, and OU is still in the hunt for a number 1 seed come Tuesday morning.

kc sooner
2/21/2009, 11:29 PM
Never like to lose, especially to texass, but really pleased with the effort tonight. They absolutely had to win this game at their place, and we very easily could have won and would have if Abrams didn't shoot like that, which he hasn't done all year. So I am real excited about how we can do in the tourney now, I didn't expect us to go 16-0 in the conference anyway.

Hotrod3157
2/21/2009, 11:29 PM
I liked how the team looked tonight without Blake. Willie is going to be a star and is good enough to carry a team. Everybody stepped up and showed what kind of a team we have outside of Blake. Have to wait and see how long he will be out and how we play those few games with him gone. Hopin it won't be too long.

IronHorseSooner
2/21/2009, 11:30 PM
I think we might just stay at #2. UNC lost and will likely drop to #4. UCONN and OU are about interchangeable. Pitt should be #1. UCONN lost at home, and we lost on the road without the best player in America. Even with that, we still darn near pulled the game out. OU's better than UCONN and UNC right now. Again, if we drop, we would drop to #3, but we will likely stay at #2. Anybody who has watched ball all week can see that. With Blake, we likely win. If OUr guys aren't continually getting mugged under the basket, we win.

8timechamps
2/21/2009, 11:58 PM
Pitt, UConn, UNC, and???? Memphis? Who is the fourth one seed?

The only thing that helped us today was UNC's loss to Maryland. Either the Big East or ACC will get two top seeds in. The one that doesn't will get one. That leaves the "floating" 1 seed out there. Don't fool yourself into thinking Duke couldn't creep back up. They are a top 5 rpi team now. East coast teams will always get the first look. Fortunately, Duke has 4 losses. Memphis could very easily move in to the fourth spot.

It's all dependent on how we (and the other teams above) finish and do in conference tournaments.


Secondly, this was one of our best games of the year. Texas played well (few T/Os, shot well, etc.), I, being a Sooner fan, think they got most of the calls, and they still barely won at home. Texas has the talent to be a top 5 to top 10 team. Tonight, the played like one. We still almost beat them, on the road, with suspect officiating. I don't know what your definition of "great team" is, but we played like a top-10 team without Blake Griffin tonight.


To your points:

1. It wasnt a horrific loss, that puts us in an 'hanging on by a thread' scenario. Texas is nowhere near a top 5 team, and putting them in the top ten is pushing it. That said, they played like a highly ranked team tonight..too bad for them, they haven't played like that in any other meaningful game.

We played like a good team tonight, not great. My definition of great is seeins a team with serious elite talent that can replace one of the cogs and continue on status quo. Although, I think we are closer to being a great team than I realized.

What if El Chupacabra decides not to red shirt from the start, wouldn't that make him better? Also, going into a game knowing that you have to coac your team without you leading scorer/rebounder, could do nothin but help you formulate a game plan.

If Texas didn't had Abrams, they would probably finish with one or two wins in conference play.

brown town sooner
2/22/2009, 12:42 AM
I agree with most of you here. OU showed the nation tonight that they are a team to be afraid of. I think we beat KU without Blake Monday night. The LC will be rocking and Warren will go off. I think the #1 seed is ours.

tulsaoilerfan
2/22/2009, 02:54 AM
Didn't get to see the game, so what happened to cause Blake's concussion?

StoopTroup
2/22/2009, 08:01 AM
QUESTION.....

Wasn't it Nate Erdman or Mookie Blaylock that got hammered in the NCAA Tourney one year and got put out of the game, which ultimately took the wind out of OUr sail leading to a loss?

GrapevineSooner
2/22/2009, 08:15 AM
Didn't get to see the game, so what happened to cause Blake's concussion?

Well, Alex Brown and the training staff aren't entirely sure (http://www.normantranscript.com/sports/local_story_053013527.html?keyword=secondarystory) .


The All-American forward played only 11 minutes and scored just two points and grabbed three rebounds. Two cheap fouls sent him to the bench after 7 minutes. He returned only to be whacked across the nose by Texas center Dexter Pittman with about 7 minutes left in the first half. He also collided with Texas point guard Dogus Balbay about a minute later.

The Sooner training staff wasn’t completely sure which contact caused the injury.

GrapevineSooner
2/22/2009, 08:18 AM
QUESTION.....

Wasn't it Nate Erdman or Mookie Blaylock that got hammered in the NCAA Tourney one year and got put out of the game, which ultimately took the wind out of OUr sail leading to a loss?

I don't recall.

I do recall Hollis Price suffering a torn triceps during a first round loss to Larry Bird's alma mater in 2001, though.

soonervegas
2/22/2009, 08:24 AM
One of the #1 seeds is ours as long as we limit our losses to 1 more (not Monday) down the stretch and we win the big 12 tourney.

This loss to texas without blake could pay off in late March, early April. At one point during the big dance we are probably going to have to play without blake for a 6-8 minute stretch. We got good practice last night.

Overtime
2/22/2009, 08:42 AM
“I asked him if he could stop hitting shots,” Warren joked, “but he didn’t listen.”

That's why I love Willie Warren (besides the fact that he's awesome).

Taylor Griffin had 9 points and 8 rebounds, so close.

If Abrams makes one less 3 and Crocker gets a pass to Taylor or Chupacabra once in the last 3 minutes, the game is ours. If, if, if =0

StoopTroup
2/22/2009, 09:13 AM
I don't recall.

I do recall Hollis Price suffering a torn triceps during a first round loss to Larry Bird's alma mater in 2001, though.

I'm pretty sure it was when we got deep into the Tourney one year and our Top Player got hammered and put out of the game. That intentional hack cost us our best player and put an end to our streak. I tried to go to SoonerStats.com but it wasn't much help. I'll find it though.

Thanks.

MichiganSooner
2/22/2009, 09:17 AM
Let any team in the country practice all week with the entire squad. Then, walk up to the coach and say, "bench your best player for the rest of the first half and don't let him play in the second half". There would be very few teams anywhere who could do as well as the Sooners did last night under those circumstances.

soonerfan28
2/22/2009, 09:22 AM
I think the top 5 looks something like this.

1. Pitt 25-2
2. UCONN 25-2
3. OU 25-2
4 Memphis 24-3
5. North Carolina 24-3

IronHorseSooner
2/22/2009, 09:25 AM
Look what happens to Pitt when Blair gets in foul trouble. They go into free fall...When we were down 1 or 2 with under a minute, should we have fouled either Pittman or Balbay? Both shoot under 50% from the line, and Balbay is under 40%. I know Taylor tried to foul the Shoney's Big Boy at the end (and I am convinced he did before he attempted the put back).

StoopTroup
2/22/2009, 09:27 AM
I think I remember now...

It was against Michigan State in the Tourney when Najera got knocked out. He was hit harder than Blake was last night. Cost us the game then too.

I hate that kind of crap.

Link to the game stats in 99

http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/1999/03/19/oklahoma-46-michigan-state-54

IronHorseSooner
2/22/2009, 09:33 AM
I think the top 5 looks something like this.

1. Pitt 25-2
2. UCONN 25-2
3. OU 25-2
4 Memphis 24-3
5. North Carolina 24-3

I don't know if Memphis will get into the coveted top 4. Their win over the Zags was nice, but they get no credit for winning Conference USA. Most folks have UNC with a virtual lock on a #1 seed. That would have NO ACC teams with a #1 seed. I personally don't have a problem with that, but most writers and coaches want to acknowledge UNC's accomplishments in the ACC. The good news in all of this is that UCONN and Pitt play once, and maybe twice (Big East Tourney) more. If we don't lose again, and they split, we will be the overall #1 going into this. Unless we lose twice more, we are a #1 seed. What we don't want is to be in the Memphis regional with Memphis in that region. That would be worse than when we were a #1 seed in the Albany regional with the 'Cuse. Whereas, as my in-laws love to point out, the 'Cuse was not on their home court in Albany, Memphis would be (I think literally). That is what we MUST avoid.

Phil
2/22/2009, 10:51 AM
What we don't want is to be in the Memphis regional with Memphis in that region. 'Cuse was not on their home court in Albany, Memphis would be (I think literally). That is what we MUST avoid.

Can't happen. You can't be placed in a regional where you could end up playing on your home court or in a regional where you are the host. That's why we quit hosting OKC regionals and turned it over to the Big 12 - so we'd be eligible to play there. Actually, that happened the year they changed things to give preference to placing top four seeds in the closest possible regional to their campus. As a practical matter, unless we completely collapse, I see it as a foregone conclusion that we'll be in the Memphis regional, with first and second rounds in KC.

IronHorseSooner
2/22/2009, 11:14 AM
Can't happen. You can't be placed in a regional where you could end up playing on your home court or in a regional where you are the host. That's why we quit hosting OKC regionals and turned it over to the Big 12 - so we'd be eligible to play there. Actually, that happened the year they changed things to give preference to placing top four seeds in the closest possible regional to their campus. As a practical matter, unless we completely collapse, I see it as a foregone conclusion that we'll be in the Memphis regional, with first and second rounds in KC.

Thanks for the info. I didn't know that rule. That makes me feel a lot better... In that scenario, either the Big East would end up with 2 #1 seeds and the ACC with none (probably 3 #2 seeds with Duke, Wake, and UNC), or the Big East and ACC would have one apiece. It would be interesting to see where the teams would go. Pitt or UCONN would go to Boston. That would be a given. I have heard talk of UNC going to Indy, but with the Maryland loss, they way be shipped out West. Memphis would go to Indy, and we would go to Memphis. I agree, KC then Memphis would be the likely and best scenario. Again, the loss stings, but really has more impact for the Big XII race, with KU and Mizzou than nationally. We should drop to #3 at the worst, or we could stay at #2, considering UCONN lost at home, and how we lost. Beat KU and everything will be right again with the world.

Rock Hard Corn Frog
2/22/2009, 11:18 AM
I'm not trying to make light of concussions. I had on myself years ago. I would think it is extremely likley that Blake will be able to go by Monday.

Also there is no way that we have lost a shot at a #1 seed. In fact if the season ended today I'm certain we would be one of the #1 seeds. If we beat KU on Monday night I think we could absorb another loss (at MU) and could still be a #1 by making it to the B12 championship game.

As for last night. Call it a moral victory if you want but even without Blake we had a chance in the last minute to beat our biggest rival on the road. I don't want to be in a situation again where we have to play without Blake but it is apparent we are a very good team without him and a great team with him.

mfosterftw
2/22/2009, 11:19 AM
I think I remember now...

It was against Michigan State in the Tourney when Najera got knocked out. He was hit harder than Blake was last night. Cost us the game then too.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/1999/03/19/oklahoma-46-michigan-state-54

Eddie was chasing the ball handler going up court. His head was down and Mateen Cleaves set a pick, and the two collided head-to-head. I can still see the image Eddie knocked cold, flattened face down, bleeding on the court. While probably the biggest collision ever in tournament history, it was a clean play. I'm surprised it doesn't get replayed during the tournament, and through the years I've never seen it available on Youtube.

soonerfan28
2/22/2009, 11:50 AM
I don't know if Memphis will get into the coveted top 4. Their win over the Zags was nice, but they get no credit for winning Conference USA. Most folks have UNC with a virtual lock on a #1 seed. That would have NO ACC teams with a #1 seed. I personally don't have a problem with that, but most writers and coaches want to acknowledge UNC's accomplishments in the ACC. The good news in all of this is that UCONN and Pitt play once, and maybe twice (Big East Tourney) more. If we don't lose again, and they split, we will be the overall #1 going into this. Unless we lose twice more, we are a #1 seed. What we don't want is to be in the Memphis regional with Memphis in that region. That would be worse than when we were a #1 seed in the Albany regional with the 'Cuse. Whereas, as my in-laws love to point out, the 'Cuse was not on their home court in Albany, Memphis would be (I think literally). That is what we MUST avoid.
I will be shocked if Memphis is not in the top 4. They have the best possible chance of finishing the season without another loss. That doesn't mean the are one of the best 4 but they will have one of the best records.

IronHorseSooner
2/22/2009, 12:06 PM
I will be shocked if Memphis is not in the top 4. They have the best possible chance of finishing the season without another loss. That doesn't mean the are one of the best 4 but they will have one of the best records.

Under that scenario, UNC is the odd-man-out. They have 3 losses, and have been skating by for weeks. OU, UCONN, and Pitt all have just two losses, and OUr second loss was without the best player in America, on the road, against a bitter and desperate rival.

OUmillenium
2/22/2009, 01:05 PM
QUESTION.....

Wasn't it Nate Erdman or Mookie Blaylock that got hammered in the NCAA Tourney one year and got put out of the game, which ultimately took the wind out of OUr sail leading to a loss?

OU was really good in 1989 and faced Virginia in a sweet 16 game. Mookie took a nasty finger to the eye and he wasn't the same the rest of the game. OU with a Final Four caliber team went down without Mookie being 100%.

Same with the MSU/Najera game. Mateen Cleaves is one of the all time stinky dooshes of the game.

IronHorseSooner
2/22/2009, 05:06 PM
Hollis went out in the Indiana State game, it was his frosh or soph season, I don't remember. He got a piece of a tooth, I think lodged in his bicep...Again, if we drop below #3, something is wrong.

the_ouskull
2/22/2009, 06:45 PM
QUESTION.....

Wasn't it Nate Erdman or Mookie Blaylock that got hammered in the NCAA Tourney one year and got put out of the game, which ultimately took the wind out of OUr sail leading to a loss?

Najera vs. Michigan State.

the_ouskull

8timechamps
2/22/2009, 11:21 PM
I don't think we can afford to lose another game and be a #1 seed. The committee isn't going to give the Big XII much credit (and they shouldn't) based on how the conference as a whole has performed.

If the Big XII would have played up to (or at least close to) expectations, then I think we could go into the NCAA tourny with 3 or four losses (assuming they were to ranked teams) and still see a #1 seed.

Right now, we need to finiah without another loss for a #1 seed.

The only alternative to that is if we lose in the Big XII tournament championship game to a ranked team other than KU (assuming we lose to them in conference play). Which would have to be Mizzou. Of course, under that scenario, we'd have to beat Mizzou in Columbia.

Confused? Bottom line is that I think we cannot afford another loss if we want to see a top seed.

OU_Sooners75
2/23/2009, 03:05 AM
OU can afford one more loss and still get a #1 seed.

OUr resume is pretty damn good.
After last nights game, OU is now 8-1 against RPI top 50. No other team in the nation can lay claim to that type of record right now.

OU_Sooners75
2/23/2009, 03:07 AM
I bet we get stuck in the West again this time around, with the first two rounds in Kansas City.

OU_Sooners75
2/23/2009, 03:09 AM
Hollis went out in the Indiana State game, it was his frosh or soph season, I don't remember. He got a piece of a tooth, I think lodged in his bicep...Again, if we drop below #3, something is wrong.

1. Pitt
2. UCONN
3. OU
4. UNC
5. ????Memphis or Louisville


I agree, something would be extremely wrong if OU drops further than #3.

NormanPride
2/23/2009, 11:46 AM
Didn't UNC just lose to Maryland? Why does that not hurt them more than us losing to our rival with our best player out?

stoopified
2/23/2009, 12:27 PM
We are a good team even without Blake. We just aren't a great without him.

Willie kept us in the game, and AJ dished well late.

I don't mind a loss late (especially on the road). I only pray we get Texas again in the tournament, and I'm sure Blake will be ready.

This loss may have cost us a #1 seed.Capel says he already knew we were a good team without Blake.If anything it was a wakeup call for everyone else in the league and the country.

IronHorseSooner
2/23/2009, 01:50 PM
1. Pitt
2. UCONN
3. OU
4. UNC
5. ????Memphis or Louisville


I agree, something would be extremely wrong if OU drops further than #3.

Well, the poll's out. We are #3.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3928360

1. Pitt
2. UCONN
3. OU
4. Memphis
5. UNC

To get a #1 seed, we MUST win tonight. Absolutely must. UCONN will lose at Marquette this week, mark it down. Pitt has Providence and Seton Hall this week (two relatively easy wins). Memphis has a trap game at UAB. UNC has one game against GA TECH.

badger
2/23/2009, 02:26 PM
I have a potty mouth during games like this and it isn't from a lack of effort by our players, or a lack of coaching by Capel, or a lack of shots dropping from us.

It's the effing reffing. :mad:

I absolutely despite home-cooked calling, even when it goes in our favor. I just want both teams to be able to go out there and win or lose with what they do on the court and not make it about which team can hit the floor the hardest or flail their arms the most or make the most painful sounding scream of anguish following the most minuscule contact.

If that's what I wanted, I would be cheering for Duke... no offense, Mr. Capel, sir. :O

And that is all I learned from this loss, that the refs still dictate the outcome of all games, no matter the most heroic of efforts on the court.

8timechamps
2/23/2009, 05:56 PM
Didn't UNC just lose to Maryland? Why does that not hurt them more than us losing to our rival with our best player out?

Because UNC is basketball royalty.
Because UNC has Roy Williams coaching them.
Because UNC lost to Maryland in OT.
Because UNC plays on the east coast.

Pick any one of the reasons. They will always get the benefit of the doubt.

the_ouskull
2/23/2009, 06:05 PM
Blake catching one dictated the outcome of this game more than anything else. I'm not saying we'd have won with him, because you never know... but it wouldn't have hurt. Also, I wouldn't have said, pre-game, that we'd have had a (great) chance to win without him... so take it for what you will.

I wouldn't say that it was top-notch officiating, but I never felt like, at any point, they were dictating the tempo of the game. ..and believe me, I am hyper-conscious of that sort of thing, what with my coaching in small-town Oklahoma and all... (It's like freakin' Hoosiers out here sometimes... It's scary. Especially when you go to talk to an official (that was already difficult to talk to 'cause he looked like Officer Rod Farva) and they not only wave you off, but, when you explain why you want to talk to them, they say, blatantly, "I don't want to discuss that call with you."

Not, "I don't want to discuss that call."

Or, "I don't want to talk to you."

But, BOTH. He knew he f*ckin' blew the call, and he knew that, given the same chance, he was going to do it again, because he knew that he was a homer ref, and he was getting pissed that everybody else was seeing it this time too. 'cause it's one thing to call a questionable travel from time to time, or award the wrong team possession on a close OOB call; refs do that sh*t, and frankly, to even discuss that sort of thing with them would be pointless, 'cause you're going to get those calls too... But calling a blocking foul on a girl... the ball-handler, dribbling full-speed up the court, with her head UP, mind you, plowed into the back of one of my players... the same girl who then got whistled for the blocking foul and had to come out of the game...

That's like whistling someone that just got punched in the face, only it was a head-butt, and it was in her back...

I can't say I blame that ref for "not wanting to discuss that call with me." I would have crawled up his *ss like one of Richard Gere's roto-rooters. It's one thing to just make sh*tty calls that put your blatant homerism on public display, but it's another thing entirely to allow someone to get injured with no retribution in the name of that same homerism.

For as abrasive as I am on this board, I've only received one "T" since I started coaching, and it was for the same thing. A homer official wasn't putting protecting the players over protecting the home court advantage. If I ever get banned from coaching, you can guar-an-d*mn-tee that it will be for the same reason. I hate cheaters, I hate cheating with a passion... but if someone feels that they need to rob; to steal from the rightful winners in order to make themselves feel better, then so be it. I'll use it to teach a different lesson. But, when someone who is entrusted with the care and protection of an athlete violates that in the name of something as mundane; as trivial as bragging rights over a freaking high school game, then sometimes I think that I wouldn't have as much trouble as I thought raising the $10,000 that I'd have to pay in fines...

If Gordon Liddy can say that "some women should be struck regularly, like dogs," and get away with it, why can't we say, and DO, the same to officials who forget the Cardinal f*cking Rule: "If it's a call on one end, it's a call on the other." And, barring that rule, at least remembering the rules governing the decency of humanity...

the_ouskull