Interesting development among our illegal immigrant population

[Okla-homey]

So, I'm listening to NPR yesterday, and I hear this:

Among illegal immigrants, there is a pecking order and kind of stratification. The top of that order includes folks who work in construction who make the most money. Next down the ladder are restaurant, hotel, landscaping and janitorial workers. At the bottom, are agricultural workers (basically pickers.)

Under the current economic downturn, with fewer jobs available at the top of the above progression, observers are seeing people who formerly worked on our rooves, built our houses, cooked our restaurant meals or made beds in our hotels, being forced back to the fields.

In fact, these observers are beginning to see older workers who had been earning twice as much board busses before dawn for a day of back-breaking work in our lettuce fields for $350.00 a week.

The question is, will that work continue to be done almost exclusively by illegals, or will things ever get bad enough that American citizens are willing to do that work for $350.00 a week? And if that happens, what will the illegals do? Go home, turn to crime, or something we can't foresee?

[OUHOMER]

Americans will not do it, when they can sit at home a draw a check from the government

[Okla-homey]

Americans will not do it, when they can sit at home a draw a check from the government


I think you may be right. Like so many Okies and Arkies, my grandparents went to California to find work during the last Great Depression. But this time around, I wonder if we'll see that sort of thing.

[OUHOMER]

I dont think so, I have often wondered what would happen if the welfare system said, ok , We will pay you but you have to work, Pickup trash along the highway, mow the grass at local parks, etc...

I heard that this work would be to demeaning

[Okla-homey]

I dont think so, I have often wondered what would happen if the welfare system said, ok , We will pay you but you have to work, Pickup trash along the highway, mow the grass at local parks, etc...

I heard that this work would be to demeaning

Well sir, here's one big problem with that. As you are no doubt aware, we have an enormous problem involving unwed moms in this country. Much bigger than during the 1930's. In some communities, it has eclipsed the 70% of all live births mark.

So I ask you, who watches the baby (or babies) while she's out doing whatever they give her to do in order to qualify for her check? And who has to pay for that?

See, its probably cheaper in the end to just give her the danged money with no strings. Unless we open and staff big gubmint daycare centers where the bambinos can be dropped off while mama is out cutting grass or picking up trash. Those centers would have to be big in order to realize the economies of scale necessary to make it cost-effective. And they would have to be near where mama lived because in most cases, she doesn't have wheels.

[reevie]

I have said for years that the American worker has priced ourselves out of the market. We want $70/hour jobs putting hub caps on Pontiacs with ample vacation time and massive health benefits. Not only does that impact the manufacturing business but, as Homer says, it makes us too good for the menial jobs out there.

So now that the government is sending our great State $465M for roads and highways, who will actually be the ones pouring the concrete? My bet is it won't be Jim Bob.

[KC//CRIMSON]

I just had a couple of illegal immigrants dig me up some flower beds around the house. I gave 'em $250, a six pack of beer, and a couple of cigars.

Gracias!

[SoonerProphet]

Population: 303,824,640 (July 2008)
Population: 127,250,232 (1935)

[OUHOMER]

Well sir, here's one big problem with that. As you are no doubt aware, we have an enormous problem involving unwed moms in this country. Much bigger than during the 1930's. In some communities, it has eclipsed the 70% of all live births mark.

So I ask you, who watches the baby (or babies) while she's out doing whatever they give her to do in order to qualify for her check? And who has to pay for that?

See, its probably cheaper in the end to just give her the danged money with no strings. Unless we open and staff big gubmint daycare centers where the bambinos can be dropped off while mama is out cutting grass or picking up trash. Those centers would have to be big in order to realize the economies of scale necessary to make it cost-effective. And they would have to be near where mama lived because in most cases, she doesn't have wheels.

hell, some of them could be baby sitters, some could pickup trash, some could be bus drivers,

I still think they all need to be drug tested as well, if you can afford meth, you dont need our help.

But that's just me.

[Harry Beanbag]

I just had a couple of illegal immigrants dig me up some flower beds around the house. I gave 'em $250, a six pack of beer, and a couple of cigars.

Gracias!


Damn, Bruce. You could have gotten them to build you an entire house for that price around here. :)

[Vaevictis]

So I ask you, who watches the baby (or babies) while she's out doing whatever they give her to do in order to qualify for her check? And who has to pay for that?

Certainly we can find some busy work that a child can attend.

I know that on nights and weekends when daycare wasn't available, my parents hauled my butt into the office. I spent so much time in the office that by the time I was 12, I knew as much about accounting as any sophomore accounting major.

Hell, I don't see why you can't take some of those busy-work mothers and assign them to watch the kiddos.

[Okla-homey]

Hell, I don't see why you can't take some of those busy-work mothers and assign them to watch the kiddos.

Do you have any idea what's involved in becoming a gubmint-approved day care provider? srsly.

[Vaevictis]

Do you have any idea what's involved in becoming a gubmint-approved day care provider? srsly.

Nope, but no matter how hard it is, I happen to know that it can be changed through appropriate legislative action :)

[OUAlumni1990]

I just had a couple of illegal immigrants dig me up some flower beds around the house. I gave 'em $250, a six pack of beer, and a couple of cigars.

Gracias!

in Houston, beer is usually enough to fit the bill! :)

[Mixer!]

What about all those felons who are sent out to pick up trash on the roadside? Do you still have them do cleanup detail, or leave them locked up so the gub'mint can pay people to do that?

[Jacie]

Well sir, here's one big problem with that. As you are no doubt aware, we have an enormous problem involving unwed moms in this country. Much bigger than during the 1930's. In some communities, it has eclipsed the 70% of all live births mark.


The problem is bigger than you think.

In her book, Guilty, Ann Coulter lays the blame for much of our societies ills on unwed mothers. Note that she differentiates between unwed as opposed to widowed or divorced mothers.

Coulter points out an interesting statistic: 70% of all inmates in U.S. prisons were raised by unwed mothers . . . women who through ignorance or choice choose to have a baby out of wedlock. Eliminate that single factor and the numbers of black vs. white inmates balances out. So unwed women having and raising babies are the cause of 70% of our crime problem.

[Vaevictis]

Eliminate that single factor and the numbers of black vs. white inmates balances out.

Yeah, and by doing so, you're probably eliminating poverty as a factor too.

I would bet that if you did a proper statistical study, being poor has far more explanatory power in whether or not you turn to crime than whether your mother was married when you were born.

(Although I expect that whether your mother was married when you were born has an impact on whether you're poor. And being poor probably has an impact on the likelihood of someone being an unwed mother.)

[Vaevictis]

What about all those felons who are sent out to pick up trash on the roadside? Do you still have them do cleanup detail, or leave them locked up so the gub'mint can pay people to do that?

There's more than enough of that job to go around.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

. So unwed women having and raising babies are the cause of 70% of our crime problem.

or...

So the impregnating dicks who are not taking responsibility for raising their children are the cause of 70% of ....

[Okla-homey]

So unwed women having, but being to damn sorry to raise their babies, and/or relying on grandma; who obviously failed the first time around, are the cause of 70% of our crime problem.

fixed it.

[Okla-homey]

I would bet that if you did a proper statistical study, being poor has far more explanatory power in whether or not you turn to crime than whether your mother was married when you were born.


mebbe so. But know this. There is no stronger indicator of failure to finish high school and future poverty than being born to an unwed mom. I wish I had a cite, but I'm too lazy to look one up.

[Curly Bill]

Getting back to the illegals argument, at what point does our economy become bad enough that they go back whence they came?

...and is that a good argument for letting the economy tank?

[Okla-homey]

Getting back to the illegals argument, at what point does our economy become bad enough that they go back whence they came?

...and is that a good argument for letting the economy tank?

That was the point of the NPR story I heard. No matter how bad it gets, the veggies and fruit must still be picked and the beef and chicken must be dressed. Since AmCits won't do it, there'll always be a job here for Juan and Juana. Put another way, no American is willing to stoop and sweat in Arizona lettuce fields 10 hours a day from March to September for tree-fitty a week. Sooo, unless we're willing to give up lettuce, we gotta have 'em.

[Curly Bill]

That was the point of the NPR story I heard. No matter how bad it gets, the veggies and fruit must still be picked and the beef and chicken must be dressed. Since AmCits won't do it, there'll always be a job here for Juan and Juana. Put another way, no American is willing to stoop and sweat in Arizona lettuce fields 10 hours a day from March to September for tree-fitty a week.

I know, but one can always hope.

[Vaevictis]

mebbe so. But know this. There is no stronger indicator of failure to finish high school and future poverty than being born to an unwed mom. I wish I had a cite, but I'm too lazy to look one up.

Nah, that jives with my expectation. Of course, I also expect that poverty has a pretty strong correlation with being an unwed mother as well.

I also expect that if you separated poverty-stricken unwed mothers from unwed mothers in better economic conditions that the statistics on failure to finish high school and future poverty would end up very, very different.

I really just think this is all one big cycle with no one specific cause, just a bunch of causes leading to each other and back.

[olevetonahill]

I blame it on WW2

[Okla-homey]

Nah, that jives with my expectation. Of course, I also expect that poverty has a pretty strong correlation with being an unwed mother as well.

I also expect that if you separated poverty-stricken unwed mothers from unwed mothers in better economic conditions that the statistics on failure to finish high school and future poverty would end up very, very different.

I really just think this is all one big cycle with no one specific cause, just a bunch of causes leading to each other and back.

My guess is if you distinguish between the kids born to unwed moms under age 25 with children who are firstborns born to unwed moms over age 25, you probably have pretty significantly different outcomes. I also suspect there is some kind of relationship between kids born to unwed moms under age 18 and even crappier outcomes.

I believe this issue is the single most challenging social problem we as a nation face. It's such a profoundly serious crisis, sometimes I wish we could require every single female between the ages of 13 and 25 to take depo shots. But we can't. Nevertheless, we must not throw up our hands and stop trying to find a way to end this national tragedy. It breaks my heart to see teenage girls holding babies who will grow to puberty and themselves become mothers far too early and in so doing, continue the horrible cycle of poverty.

[yermom]

how else are we going to keep up with China and India? ;)

maybe some non-puritanical sex ed that actually has a basis in reality would help

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I know, but one can always hope.


another great depression is Curly's wet dream!;)

[Curly Bill]

another great depression is Curly's wet dream!;)

Nah, getting rid of all you illegals would be nice though. ;)

[soonerscuba]

I believe this issue is the single most challenging social problem we as a nation face. It's such a profoundly serious crisis, sometimes I wish we could require every single female between the ages of 13 and 25 to take depo shots. But we can't. Nevertheless, we must not throw up our hands and stop trying to find a way to end this national tragedy. It breaks my heart to see teenage girls holding babies who will grow to puberty and themselves become mothers far too early and in so doing, continue the horrible cycle of poverty.I seriously think it would be worthwhile to cut a check to anybody on welfare every time they get a depo shot.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

So unwed fathers having and NOT raising babies are the cause of 70% of our crime problem.

fixed

[yermom]

it takes two to tango...

[Okla-homey]

I seriously think it would be worthwhile to cut a check to anybody on welfare every time they get a depo shot.

You betcha. If memory serves*, women using depo as birth control have the shots every six months or so. I would support a gubmint check for 500.00, issued at the clinic, each time she gets the shot. So, if a gal takes advantage of the offer from age 13 to 25, we'll have spent 2400 bucks, to prevent up to 5 or 6 kids, at least one of whom, would have ended up in prison. Helluva bargain for the gubmint.;)

*Military women generally use depo if they use birth control because there are no pills involved, and no menstrual periods -- both big plusses while deployed.

[Okla-homey]

fixed

If we had a pill or shot that made boys shoot blanks, if I were Emperor if America, it would be mandatory. Unfortunately, we don't, and I'm not.

[Scott D]

You betcha. If memory serves*, women using depo as birth control have the shots every six months or so. I would support a gubmint check for 500.00, issued at the clinic, each time she gets the shot. So, if a gal takes advantage of the offer from age 13 to 25, we'll have spent 2400 bucks, to prevent up to 5 or 6 kids, at least one of whom, would have ended up in prison. Helluva bargain for the gubmint.;)

*Military women generally use depo if they use birth control because there are no pills involved, and no menstrual periods -- both big plusses while deployed.

actually depo would be every 3 months. And the problem with that concept is that with as in bad shape as most Americans are in, it runs a higher risk of other medical complications with any woman who is diabetic.