Classic Ignorance....

[cheezyq]

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/SprungOnSports/184227

This really peeved me:


DeJuan Blair shows he's the nation's best player
Pittsburgh's DeJuan Blair completely dominated UConn's Hasheem Thabeet in the Panthers' 76-68 win in Hartford over the Huskies, the program's first ever win over a top ranked opponent. Blair went right after the imposing 7'3 shot swatter, scoring 22 points on 10-17 shooting with a career high 23 rebounds and only two personal fouls. Thabeet only had five points on 1-5 shooting with four rebounds and two blocked shots while fouling out. Thabeet had never seen such a physical player in his college career, and Blair went right for his body with a large variety of post moves and fakes, and was able to step back and hit that ten foot jumper to keep Thabeet off balance. If you think Blake Griffin can have a performance like that against Thabeet, you're either naive or a huge Sooners fan, in which case I'll forgive you. What big men in the Big 12 even come close to what Blair has to deal with in the Big East? Thabeet? Luke Harangody? Syracuse's Arinze Onuaku? When Griffin puts up these huge stats against teams with elite big men, other than Kansas' Cole Aldrich and maybe Texas' Connor Atchley you can call me. Otherwise, I'll be defiant in calling DeJuan Blair the nation's best basketball player."

Wow. Brazen ignorance at its best. He's right that Blake hasn't faced some of the better big men in college basketball right now. But he's faced something that Blair rarely faces (and I've watched several of his games, so I know) - double and triple-teams. Blake is better than Blair, and it's not even close.

Blair:
+ Very strong
+ Excellent hands
+ Great technique boxing out for the rebound
+ Good post skills
+ Decent shooter
- Not a great ball handler
- Not very athletic, plays well below the rim the majority of the time
- Jumping into a player's chest as you shoot is a foul, which was Blair's prime offensive move against Thabeet

Blake:
+ Very strong
+ Fantastic athleticism
+ Excellent hands
+ Excellent post moves
+ Moderately good technique for the box out, but relies more on athleticism
+ Decent ball handler for his size
+ Good passer
- Poor free throw shooter
- Needs some work defensively
- Not the best shooter from 6-feet and out

Seriously, when have you EVER seen anyone lob a pass for Blair to dunk? When have you ever seen Blair take a lob pass from half-court and throw it down? Never. The guy is VERY good at what he does, which is using his width to block people out, and move people around. But Blake would dominate him, hands down. Blake is quicker and more athletic, while being just as strong as Blair.

What's worse is that measuring Blair using his performance against Thabeet is silly. If there's one thing that stands out about Thabeet, it is that he is a wuss against big strong guys. He's weak. He uses his height and arm length very well, and he is fairly athletic. But when he faces stronger guys, he folds like a tent in a hurricane.

I like Thabeet, and I think Blair is fantastic too. But there is NO WAY Blair stacks up to Blake. I saw Blair's performance against Thabeet coming from a mile away. He's the perfect matchup against Thabeet because of his sheer strength.

[badger]

Thabeet does NOT equal quality big man. That player showed how much he sucked against Pitt. Oy, what was that guy's problem? Injuries? A sneeze? A concussion? Too much pregame bacon? Anyway, that guy played terribly and saying that Blake hasn't faced someone like Thabeet is not saying much at all.

[cheezyq]

Thabeet does NOT equal quality big man. That player showed how much he sucked against Pitt. Oy, what was that guy's problem? Injuries? A sneeze? A concussion? Too much pregame bacon? Anyway, that guy played terribly and saying that Blake hasn't faced someone like Thabeet is not saying much at all.

I agree that Thabeet isn't the best big man in the country and that he's received too much hype for his performance against Seton Hall. But he's still very good at what he does, which is being extremely tall and long...and relatively athletic (for his height). He's so tall and his arms are so long that he doesn't have to anticipate when a player is jumping to still get a hand on the ball. He can wait for the offender to jump and commit to the shot, and then jump up and swat it away, or just snatch it out of the air.

But like I said, Thabeet is weak. He's like a more athletic, slightly shorter version of Shawn Bradley. He'll be a great shot blocker and rebounder. And he'll put up some points on occasion. But he'll struggle against some of the bigger, stronger guys.

[OUSKINS]

VERY interesting debate. A few points:

--Blake would NOT "destroy" or "dominate" Blair-- at least not in a one-game situation. Blair is very, very good and obviously extremely strong. I don't see any big man in the nation "dominating" him. But do I think Blake is a better player? Yes, and for many of the same reasons that cheezy mentioned.

--You also have the age-old debate... are we debating who has the brighter future or who is the better college player? If we're talking NBA, then Blake wins that argument hands-down. He's taller, leaner, and significantly more athletic. Some argue that he scores the majority of points in close and that that won't happen in the NBA...but Blake's athleticism is PRECISELY what allows him to score so many easy buckets. He's one of the best big men on the break that I've ever seen. And he is a monster offensive rebounder...and usually when you get offensive rebounds, you're in pretty good position to score.

--As for who's better in college, that's a much closer argument. Again, I'll side with Blake because he is the more dynamic player overall. Neither guy has a great game outside of the paint and both are beasts down low...but Blake covers more of the floor than Blair and as mentioned, is a MAJOR threat in the open floor. But I do think Blair can hang and bang with Blake in a one-game situation...and potentially outplay him.

--One thing I do agree on is that Thabeet is a wuss and he proved it on Monday night by being totally removed from the game by Blair and Pitt. Blake would NEVER have a stat line like that against a good team....NEVER. Blair destroyed Thabeet in that game and in doing so, I think he exposed him as well.

[badger]

I blame this thread for putting "We got the Beat" in my head. So that I can share this misery with all of you, here are all of the song lyrics, slightly modified:

See the people walking down the street
Fall in line just watching all their feet
They don't know where they wanna go
But they're walking in time

They got Thabeet
They got Thabeet
Yeah
They got Thabeet

See the kids just getting out of school
They can't wait to hang out and be cool
Hang around 'til quarter after twelve
That's when they fall in line

Kids got Thabeet
They got Thabeet
They got Thabeet
Yeah
Kids got Thabeet

Go-Go music really makes us dance
Do the Pony puts us in a trance
Do the Watusi just give us a chance
That's when we fall in line

We got Thabeet
We got Thabeet
We got Thabeet
Yeah
We got Thabeet
Everybody get on your feet
We know you can dance to the beat
Jumpin' - get down
Round and round and round

:mad: make it stooooooooooooooop! go away, go-gos!

[ouleaf]

Blair is a pretty solid player IMO. I think he'd be a tough matchup for Blake and vice versa

I like how the articles mentions Blair having to go against the oh so awesome Thabeet, Harangody, and Onuaku. Harangody is waaaayyyy overrated...maybe not as much as Thabeet, but it's still pretty close on the overrated scale.

Thabeet, I'm afraid, is suffering from Shawn Bradley syndrome. He'll wind up a high draft pick solely b/c of his gift of being tall, stick thin, and can block some shots. Once he gets to the NBA though, I think he'll fizzle out unless he can add some muscle and take on the stronger bigs. Can you imagine how bad he'll get worked against a Dwight Howard, KG, or Tim Duncan. Hell, Carlos Boozer would have a field day against this guy.

Don't even get me started on Harangody. Preseaon Big East POY my a$$. If he were any good ND wouldn't have lost 7 games in a row or whatever that ridiculous streak was. He's just an unathletic oaf with an ugly nose and an even uglier jumper.

Go Blake! I can't wait till he gets his shot against one of these fools.

[tommieharris91]

Don't even get me started on Harangody. Preseaon Big East POY my a$$. If he were any good ND wouldn't have lost 7 games in a row or whatever that ridiculous streak was. He's just an unathletic oaf with an ugly nose and an even uglier jumper.


ND losing isn't Harangody's problem. It's the rest of his team. He's the only guy who doesn't take a whole buncha bad shots night in and night out. The rest of his team just jacks up bad 3s. They don't play much defense either.

[cheezyq]

I'm not knocking Blair. The guy is exceptional. He's incredibly strong, and has very strong hands. He's got the best block-out technique I've seen in a long time. But there is no question that Blake is a better player. Anyone who has watched the two play would clearly side with Blake on who is better. The biggest difference between the two is athleticism, and it's a HUGE difference. Watch Blair for a while and then watch Blake, and you'll come to appreciate that difference. Blair can dunk, and he can rebound. He has enough skills in the post to be a force. But you never see him play above the rim like Blake does.

Blair's biggest assets are his strength and his intelligence. He really is a phenomenal kid. But Blake not only has both of those traits, he has a whole lot more. He's quicker. He's more agile. His post moves are far more advanced. He's a better passer. He's a better ball-handler. He could probably dunk a 13-foot goal.

Blair just has none of that. Again, he's a great player. But Blake would own him.

Don't knock Thabeet, either. Yeah, he was exposed...but only to those NOT in the know - like Digger Phelps, Dick Vitale, etc. Those guys look at Thabeet as a physical specimen, and just drool all over themselves. And Thabeet IS a good player. He'll be pretty good in the NBA, too, and MUCH better than Shawn Bradley. I think he'll be a mix between Bradley and Mutombo. BUT, just like Mutombo and Bradley and others, when they face the bigger, stronger players...they will struggle.

[the_ouskull]

I'll say it here, too. If Thabeet grows up to be a more offensive-minded version of Mutumbo, I think that whoever drafts him will be happy with him. I'm more interested in seeing what Blake does, long-term. If he develops a 15-18' jumper, he could grow into a more athletic version of Karl Malone. If he doesn't... he could be all over the map. Like I said... interesting.

the_ouskull

[MikeInNorman]

When Griffin puts up these huge stats against teams with elite big men, other than Kansas' Cole Aldrich and maybe Texas' Connor Atchley you can call me. Otherwise, I'll be defiant in calling DeJuan Blair the nation's best basketball player.

This guy is such a stupendous idiot, and is so unbelievably ignorant about Big 12 basketball, that he thinks Connor Atchley is an "elite" big man.

Dear Mr. Blogger Man,

First, Connor Atchley does not, I repeat not, play post. Post, or "Five" in that fancy basketball terminology of which I am certain you are a master, is Blake Griffin's position. He has probably played "Post" or "Five" in 99% of his minutes this year, other than when he is playing "Point", or "One", on the fast break and turning the ball over.

Second, if Connor Atchley played post, he would easily and by far be the worst in the Big 12. There are many second string posts that would be light years better than Connor Atchley, that is, if Atchley were a post.

Third, Connor Atchley doesn't even qualify as a "big man", much less an elite one. He technically plays "Four" (another basketball term), but really plays that front court position called Tall White Guys That Can Shoot Threes, But Not Much Else.

Fourth, you should send a copy of your column to Mr. and Mrs. Atchley, as surely it is the only place where the word "elite" is used to modify "Connor Atchley". Or, just send it over to Barking Carnival, where it will find an attentive audience that has been recently debating whether Atchley should receive any playing time at all.

Don't bother to thank me,

MikeInNorman

[cheezyq]

I'll say it here, too. If Thabeet grows up to be a more offensive-minded version of Mutumbo, I think that whoever drafts him will be happy with him. I'm more interested in seeing what Blake does, long-term. If he develops a 15-18' jumper, he could grow into a more athletic version of Karl Malone. If he doesn't... he could be all over the map. Like I said... interesting.

the_ouskull

I agree with you on Thabeet. For some reason, though, I see Blake as a stronger version of Dwight Howard. It's probably just me, but I can't imagine a Karl Malone comparison.

[oumartin]

Blair is a great player. Wide body for blocking out and moving you off the block. Plays below the rim.
Blake would either eat him alive and have him gassed early.

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

Thabeet has come a long way but I watched him get outplayed in a high school game 3-4 years ago by a 6'5" high school post player that I don't even think is playing college basktball now. Thabeet had a couple dunks, blocked a few shots and scored about 10-12 points.

I can tell you at the time that I was shocked that he was a UConn recruit. Now Calhoun was right and he has become a great player but it cracks me up now when he is viewed as a player than can shut down anyone.

[the_ouskull]

There aren't many people alive that are a "stronger version of Dwight Howard," so please, slow down. Also, Howard is a legit center now. Blake is barely a legit center in college. I'd rather we were able to play him at the 4 more often.

The Karl Malone thing comes from how effectively I think Blake will run the pick-and-roll at the NBA level, assuming two things... 1) he works on, and VASTLY improves his mid-range jumper, and 2) he lands around a good enough point guard. I think that, with Blake's strength and athleticism, not to mention his ability to finish around the basket, that Karl Malone isn't a great stretch. I mean, I'm comparing a kid that hasn't even been drafted yet to a likely first-ballot HOF'er, so it's a LITTLE extreme, but it's not impossible is what I'm saying...

...and Blake's a much better passer now than Malone was as a rookie.

the_ouskull

[IronHorseSooner]

This guy is just trying to keep the POY debate alive. Jason Williams of ESPN said the same thing a few weeks ago, but those two are about the only two who don't say the POY race is over right now. Even Dickie V and Basketball's version of Lee Corso, Digger Phelps, say so. I spoke with a Pitt fan a couple of weeks ago in line at the airport, and he agreed that Blair would have problems with Blake because Blake is both strong and athletic. He also said that Blair being 6'7" and Blake being 6'10' and with his physical gifts would gas Blair. Both are great bigs, and most would love to see that match up. Right now, talk of anybody but Blake winning it is just plain stupid.

[primetime43]

I'm a Blake Griffin fan just like everyone else on here but to say he's stronger than Dwight Howard is pushing it. I compare Blake with Amare Stoudmire and Carlos Boozer. He has Amare's explosiveness and Boozer's strength. He just needs to get Stoudmire's jump shot and he will be unstoppable!

Maybe next year we'll see a Dwight Howard vs Blake Griffin in the slam dunk contest! Who ya got???

[ouleaf]

The Karl Malone thing comes from how effectively I think Blake will run the pick-and-roll at the NBA level, assuming two things... 1) he works on, and VASTLY improves his mid-range jumper, and 2) he lands around a good enough point guard.

I'd love to see Blake and Willie run more pick and roll. I really think it would help open up Willie game a whole lot more, and still give Blake plenty of opportunities. If they are even half as good at it as Stockton and Malone were, just think how devastating they would be.

You're right about Blake needing to improve on his mid-range jumper.

[Collier11]

A little bit of an overreaction I would say, a couple of things to consider

Not everyone is an OU fan
The Big East is a better conf than the Big 12 this year
Blair just dominated the nationally perceived best Center
Lets see what Blake does against Aldrich, I think that will be one of the better defensive centers he will face
Stop getting so worked up about one persons opinion

[Collier11]

I compare Blake with Amare Stoudmire and Carlos Boozer.

Do you really? Are you sure you arent just stealing that comparison from 2 or 3 ESPN announcers from the past 3 weeks :D ;)

[primetime43]

I honestly never heard the comparison from ESPN but it seems logical to me.

[Collier11]

Thats the one that Fran Fraschilla and one other guy made

[NormanPride]

Blair disappears at times. In their loss to Louisville, he had 9pts/10reb which is good, but not star quality. And in their loss to Villanova, he had 7/8. That's bad.

Blake has missed the double-double four times this year, and has shattered Tim Duncan's 20/15 record. It doesn't matter who he plays, the consistency and ease with which he gets these numbers is staggering. And if you want to see what he can do one-on-one, just look at the Tech game.

It's that difference, in my mind, that keeps Blair from the POTY talk and solidifies Blake. Honestly, the TV guys are just trying to pimp someone, ANYONE as competition like they did with Larry Fitzgerald against Jason White in 2003.

[Sooner04]

Honestly, the TV guys are just trying to pimp someone, ANYONE as competition like they did with Larry Fitzgerald against Jason White in 2003.
Problem is they actually were pimping the best player in the country in 2003.

[NormanPride]

Nah, they were pimping the best Pro prospect in the country. The best collegiate player was obviously Jason. Fitz has done a LOT of development in the pros.

[Collier11]

I have to disagree, the best college player doesnt play like he played in the big 12 title and natl title games

[NormanPride]

Dude, he had like 6 broken bones in those games. Jason was a stud. I can't believe I'm defending our own Heisman winner against a dude that didn't even have as good a year as Rashaun Woods.

[Sooner04]

I had no problem with the pimping of Fitzgerald. Anyone could see then that the guy already was and was going to BE a monster. Mark May got annoying, but he was a Pitt guy.

I seem to remember Fitz's 2003 being a lot better than Rashaun's 2003. Rashaun Woods had Josh Fields throwing passes to him. I can't remember what scrub was heaving them to Fitz.

And White was BADLY hurt during that K-State game. All torn up.

[Salt City Sooner]

I have to disagree, the best college player doesnt play like he played in the big 12 title and natl title games
Two sides to that coin. Pitt played all of one game that year vs. an elite defense, that being their game vs. Miami. Fitzgerald caught all of 3 balls for 26 yards, & one cosmetic TD very late in the 4th quarter when the Canes were up 28-7.

BMart, the guy on the throwing end of those passes was Rod Rutherford.

[Collier11]

I understand that JW was hurt and I understand that Fitzgerald didnt play as many good teams and im proud that JW won, I just dont think he was the best player...I also think AD was the best player the following year, not Leinart

[cheezyq]

There aren't many people alive that are a "stronger version of Dwight Howard," so please, slow down. Also, Howard is a legit center now. Blake is barely a legit center in college. I'd rather we were able to play him at the 4 more often.

The Karl Malone thing comes from how effectively I think Blake will run the pick-and-roll at the NBA level, assuming two things... 1) he works on, and VASTLY improves his mid-range jumper, and 2) he lands around a good enough point guard. I think that, with Blake's strength and athleticism, not to mention his ability to finish around the basket, that Karl Malone isn't a great stretch. I mean, I'm comparing a kid that hasn't even been drafted yet to a likely first-ballot HOF'er, so it's a LITTLE extreme, but it's not impossible is what I'm saying...

...and Blake's a much better passer now than Malone was as a rookie.

the_ouskull

I meant from a style, or rather, a physical perspective is all. Howard's a legit 6'11", maybe 7'0"...so Griffin's shorter, but he has similar length...though Blake is clearly not a center. But, they both have similar power (I think Blake appears stronger), athleticism, and post skills. Karl was a pretty good athlete in his younger years, but I don't think he could ever jump as high, run the court as well, or do some of the acrobatic things that Blake can.

Now since you're talking intelligence and fundamentals, I agree with you. But Malone was better and more consistent from mid-range than Blake is now. And while I hope that he develops that mid-range jumper, I'm not sure that he will. Malone also finished better around the rim than Blake (I'm talking about when it's NOT a dunk, of course).

I worry that Blake won't develop that soft touch that Malone (or others) had, and that he'll always struggle with his shot. Beasley has that kind of range and touch, and I could see him garnering a Malone comparison more easily. Blake just doesn't have that right now. Not that he can't make shots, but those fade-away jumpers and mid-range off-the-backboard shots will be much harder to hit in the NBA.

I'm not saying he can't be that kind of guy, but right now he's got a fairly polished post game that fits the Dwight Howard/Amare Stoudemire mold more so than the Karl Malone mold.

[Collier11]

Malone has two things on Griffin at this point, he was bigger which BG will eventually get there, and he had a better jumper which im sure BG will get better at

[RonMexico7]

I meant from a style, or rather, a physical perspective is all. Howard's a legit 6'11", maybe 7'0"...so Griffin's shorter, but he has similar length...though Blake is clearly not a center. But, they both have similar power (I think Blake appears stronger), athleticism, and post skills.

Have you ever seen Dwight Howard in person. The guy is an absolute freak. His shoulders have to be 3-feet wide. The whole superman gig is kinda cheezy (although, I guess that's right up your alley), but he really is like something out of a comic book. I'm a big Blake fan too of course, and as much as he blows me away in person, I still think you're wrong on this one.

[Collier11]

There is no way at this point that BG appears stronger, is stronger, and has comparable length. Dwight Howard is a physical freak of nature

[badger]

http://www.orangeandbluehue.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/last-crusade-grail_1148452486-000.jpg
[All of you taking sophomore receiver over 3846 yards passing and just 10 interception throwing Jason White] This shiny golden Larry Fitzgerald grail truly belongs to the king of kings![/all of you]

I know Jason White didn't look all bright and shiny like Larry Fitzgerald's flashy diving catches, but he truly was the most outstanding player in college football that year... and yes, I am biased, but there is no way in hell I am drinking eternal life water outta that shiny fake grail.

White in 2003 alone: 40 TD's, 10 INTS
Fitz in TWO seasons: 2,677 yards, 34 receiving touchdowns

Plus, Larry had both of his knees still. The way Jason came back from two ACL's will never be duplicated and I don't even care if he never made the NFL.

:mad: STOP CHOOSING POORLY! :mad:

:confused: And why are we discussing football on the basketball board?