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View Full Version : Pakistan hands over control of border region to Taliban



JohnnyMack
2/17/2009, 04:34 PM
This should end well.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29235292/


MINGORA, Pakistan - Battle-weary residents welcomed a pro-Taliban cleric dispatched by the government Tuesday to convince militants in the former tourist haven of Swat to stop fighting in exchange for the imposition of Islamic law and suspension of military offensives there.

Sufi Muhammad arrived in a caravan of some 300 vehicles in Swat Valley's main city of Mingora a day after he struck the truce, which a U.S. defense official called "negative" and critics said represented a surrender to extremists fanning out from nearby strongholds close to the Afghan border.

NATO also expressed dismay. "We would all be concerned by a situation in which extremists would have safe haven," NATO spokesman James Appathurai said at a news briefing. "It is certainly reason for concern."
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"We will soon open dialogue with Taliban. We will ask them to lay down their weapons. We are hopeful that they will not let us down," Muhammad told reporters. "We will stay here in the valley until peace is restored."

Residents lined the route, waving and shouting "Long live peace! Long live Islam!"

Extremists in Swat have beheaded opponents and torched scores of girls schools in recent months, while gunbattles between security forces and militants have killed hundreds. Up to a third of the valley's 1.5 million people have fled and the scenic area is now believed to be mostly under militant control.

The provincial government in northwest Pakistan announced the deal Monday after it met with Islamists led by Muhammad, who has long demanded that Islamic, or Shariah, law be followed in this conservative corner of Pakistan. As part of the deal Muhammad agreed to travel to Swat and discuss peace with Maulana Fazlullah, the leader of the Swat Taliban and Muhammad's son-in-law.

Muhammad was detained in 2002 after he sent thousands to fight U.S. troops in Afghanistan, but Pakistan freed him last year after he agreed to renounce violence. It is unclear how much influence he has over Fazlullah or exactly where they would meet, though a spokesman for the Swat Taliban leader welcomed Muhammad and has spoken positively of the truce.

The Swat Taliban said Sunday they would observe an initial 10-day cease-fire in a show of good faith.

Pakistan's inability to re-establish its authority in Swat has embarrassed the shaky civilian government and the military. However, Pakistani leaders insisted the deal was not a concession, but an attempt to fulfill demands by locals for a more efficient justice system and forge peace.

"Those who want to live in a peaceful world will take steps like ours, and those who want to live in a violent world will take opposite steps," Northwest Frontier Province Information Minister Mian Iftikhar Hussain said in defense of the agreement. "The need of the hour is to put water on fire, not to fuel it."

Some 2,000 militants are believed to operate in the valley, and, in defiance of the presence of some 10,000 paramilitary and army troops, they have already set up their own courts, meting out punishments in line with an exceptionally harsh brand of Islamic law.

Many analysts questioned whether the fighters would listen to Muhammad and said they doubted the deal would stop violence. Similar deals struck in the past have failed, including one last year in Swat that security officials said the insurgents used to regroup and re-arm.

A senior U.S. Defense Department official, said "it is hard to view this as anything other than a negative development." He requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of relations with Pakistan and because he was not authorized to speak on the record.

Officials said the main changes to the legal system under the agreement are included in existing laws that allow for Muslim clerics to advise judges when hearing cases and the setting up of an Islamic appeals court, which they said would ensure speedier and fairer justice.

The rules do not ban female education or contain other strict interpretations of Shariah that have been demanded by many members of the Taliban in Pakistan — restrictions imposed by the Taliban regime in Afghanistan before it was ousted by the U.S.-led invasion in late 2001.

Also Tuesday, a car bomb exploded near the residence of a local government official, killing three people and wounding 12 others on the outskirts of the main northwest city of Peshawar, police officer Sifwat Ghayur said.

TUSooner
2/17/2009, 05:56 PM
That's bad.

Curly Bill
2/17/2009, 06:56 PM
What's Obama's role in this? :D

JohnnyMack
2/17/2009, 07:37 PM
What's Obama's role in this? :D

He and OBL masterminded it of course.

jkjsooner
2/17/2009, 09:51 PM
Good. Suck as many of them as possible into Afghanistan. Make them feel comfortable. Then obliterate them. That avoids the mess with working within Pakistan....

Curly Bill
2/17/2009, 10:24 PM
He and OBL masterminded it of course.

Of course you'd know. ;) :D

SoonerProphet
2/18/2009, 01:34 PM
"No amount of persuasion, advice, or threats is capable of re-arranging the age-long mechanism of Muslim states" - - Artyom Borovik, The Hidden War

1890MilesToNorman
2/18/2009, 01:51 PM
I hope Pakistan understands this makes the region fair game? assuming BHO has the balls to go for it.

Jacie
2/18/2009, 02:36 PM
Geography professor claims to have found Osama bin Laden

A Californian geography professor has used techniques for hunting endangered species to pinpoint three houses in Pakistan where Osama bin Laden could be hiding.


Using patterns of how animal species spread, the world's most wanted terrorist can be tracked down to a town in the tribal region of North West Pakistan it is claimed.

By factoring in his need for security, electricity, high ceilings to accommodate his 6ft 4in frame and spare rooms for his bodyguards, the search can be further narrowed to three walled compounds.

According to a team led by Thomas Gillespie, at the University of California in Los Angeles, bin Laden's location is "one of the most important political questions of our time".

Mathematical models used to explain how animal species spread out say he should be close to where he was last spotted.

Their research published in MIT International Review also concluded he should also be in a large town with a similar culture to Afghanistan where he can remain largely anonymous.

The most likely candidate is in Parachinar, 12 miles inside Pakistan, which housed many mujahideen during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the 1980s.

Finally after looking at his need for electricity for dialysis, high walls, spare rooms for his entourage, and trees to hide from prying eyes, satellite pictures show just three suitable houses.

"We believe that our work involves the first scientific approach to establishing his current location" the research concludes.

"The methods are repeatable and can be updated with new information obtained from the US intelligence community."

Kim Rossmo of Texas State University, who has worked with the military to find terrorists told USA Today: "The idea of identifying three buildings in a city of half a million especially one in a country the authors have likely never visited is somewhat overconfident."

DBrown
2/18/2009, 04:35 PM
Whoooopeeeeeeeee "peace in the valley".
Yeah,right.

JohnnyMack
4/23/2009, 10:35 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/22/zakaria.pakistan/index.html

MrJimBeam
4/23/2009, 10:40 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/22/zakaria.pakistan/index.html

"Spiraling chaos Possible"? I say possible was about 6 months ago.

Oldnslo
4/23/2009, 11:29 AM
"Spiraling Chaos" would sound like fun if it didn't involve nukes and extremists.

It would also make a wonderful name for a rock band.

JohnnyMack
4/23/2009, 11:37 AM
"Spiraling Chaos" sounds like a description of me in the sack.

C&CDean
4/23/2009, 11:46 AM
"Shrinking Penis" sounds like a description of me in the sack.

So I've heard.

Dio
4/23/2009, 11:55 AM
So, if the Taliban takes over Pakistan, doesn't that kind of solve the whole "there's no 'Taliban state' to go after" issue after 9/11?

StoopTroup
4/23/2009, 12:08 PM
That's bad.

I think it might be good. SoS Clinton is already on it saying she thinks they might be thinking of taking over control of Pakistan...which if they get control of Pakistan's Nukes...it won't be for long is my guess.

It's about time we track those Muther ****ers down.

StoopTroup
4/23/2009, 12:11 PM
Geography professor claims to have found Osama bin Laden

A Californian geography professor has used techniques for hunting endangered species to pinpoint three houses in Pakistan where Osama bin Laden could be hiding.


Using patterns of how animal species spread, the world's most wanted terrorist can be tracked down to a town in the tribal region of North West Pakistan it is claimed.

By factoring in his need for security, electricity, high ceilings to accommodate his 6ft 4in frame and spare rooms for his bodyguards, the search can be further narrowed to three walled compounds.

According to a team led by Thomas Gillespie, at the University of California in Los Angeles, bin Laden's location is "one of the most important political questions of our time".

Mathematical models used to explain how animal species spread out say he should be close to where he was last spotted.

Their research published in MIT International Review also concluded he should also be in a large town with a similar culture to Afghanistan where he can remain largely anonymous.

The most likely candidate is in Parachinar, 12 miles inside Pakistan, which housed many mujahideen during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the 1980s.

Finally after looking at his need for electricity for dialysis, high walls, spare rooms for his entourage, and trees to hide from prying eyes, satellite pictures show just three suitable houses.

"We believe that our work involves the first scientific approach to establishing his current location" the research concludes.

"The methods are repeatable and can be updated with new information obtained from the US intelligence community."

Kim Rossmo of *Texas* State University, who has worked with the military to find terrorists told USA Today: "The idea of identifying three buildings in a city of half a million especially one in a country the authors have likely never visited is somewhat overconfident."

Wow...a Technological Tracker. We've come along way since Buffalo Scouts. :D

JohnnyMack
4/23/2009, 12:32 PM
I think it might be good. SoS Clinton is already on it saying she thinks they might be thinking of taking over control of Pakistan...which if they get control of Pakistan's Nukes...it won't be for long is my guess.

It's about time we track those Muther ****ers down.

It was about time we tracked them down back in 2003 before someone got distracted.

StoopTroup
4/23/2009, 12:52 PM
It's funny that Pakistan has sat on their hands harboring these bastards when our last President said we would show no mercy in hunting down terrorists and then didn't do it.

I think this might be Pres. Obamas first real test here.

Frozen Sooner
4/23/2009, 01:19 PM
Mathematical models used to explain how animal species spread out say he should be close to where he was last spotted.

I'm somewhat suspicious of this statement. I would assume any model of animal behavior would probably assume no access to motorized transportation.

JohnnyMack
4/23/2009, 01:58 PM
I'm somewhat suspicious of this statement. I would assume any model of animal behavior would probably assume no access to motorized transportation.

http://jugsi.com/wp-content/uploads/panda-driver.jpg

Mjcpr
4/23/2009, 02:03 PM
http://www.booboola.net/img/friends/toonces.jpg

Frozen Sooner
4/23/2009, 02:12 PM
http://jugsi.com/wp-content/uploads/panda-driver.jpg


http://www.booboola.net/img/friends/toonces.jpg

I stand corrected.

sooneron
4/23/2009, 02:35 PM
heh

Frozen Sooner
4/23/2009, 02:41 PM
http://jugsi.com/wp-content/uploads/panda-driver.jpg

This picture is just begging for captions.

C&CDean
4/23/2009, 02:54 PM
This picture is just begging for captions.

Look at the initials on the car. JM. I'm cracking up.

NYC Poke
4/23/2009, 03:04 PM
What are the odds that Pakistan becomes the first nation to nuke its own country?

Frozen Sooner
4/23/2009, 03:11 PM
What are the odds that Pakistan becomes the first nation to nuke its own country?

I suggest you look up the history of Amchitka Island. They won't be.

yermom
4/23/2009, 03:28 PM
we bombed New Mexico before that :D

Frozen Sooner
4/23/2009, 03:30 PM
we bombed New Mexico before that :D

Yeah, but Amchitka actually had people living on it. We moved 'em off, but we sure nuked the crap out of their homes.

NYC Poke
4/23/2009, 03:58 PM
I just wikied it. Sounds like the Amchitkans had it comin'.

Frozen Sooner
4/23/2009, 04:00 PM
I just wikied it. Sounds like the Amchitkans had it comin'.

"YOU CAN NUKE OUR FREEDOMS, BUT YOU'LL NEVER GET OUR SEAL!"

yermom
4/23/2009, 04:02 PM
Yeah, but Amchitka actually had people living on it. We moved 'em off, but we sure nuked the crap out of their homes.

in my wiki'ing it said that no one had lived there since 1832, maybe i was reading it wrong. they did say something about a military base

Frozen Sooner
4/23/2009, 04:07 PM
in my wiki'ing it said that no one had lived there since 1832, maybe i was reading it wrong. they did say something about a military base

Well, you know Wikipedia is the definitive source. ;)

I've talked to people who at least claim their families were living there.

JohnnyMack
4/23/2009, 04:08 PM
Well, you know Wikipedia is the definitive source. ;)

I've talked to people who at least claim their families were living there.

Don't you know by now that BigRedRon doesn't count? Dude is totally full of ****.

Frozen Sooner
4/23/2009, 04:11 PM
Don't you know by now that BigRedRon doesn't count? Dude is totally full of ****.

According to BigRedRon, Amchitka's 257 electoral votes went to McCain.

You know, based on his rock-solid internal polling numbers.

Ahh, poor BRR. Did he ever come back and admit that his polling numbers were full of **** and based on terrible assumptions?

yermom
4/23/2009, 04:11 PM
Well, you know Wikipedia is the definitive source. ;)

I've talked to people who at least claim their families were living there.

yeah, i figured you might have a bit more info than my cursory glance over wikipedia :D

Frozen Sooner
4/23/2009, 04:14 PM
Hey, I'm not saying the people I talked to weren't full of ****. They very well could have been.

Regardless, moving an indigenous population off a piece of crap island and nuking it (while kinda sketchy behavior) isn't the same as intentionally blowing up your own citizens, which is what NYC was talking about. I was just being an insufferable know-it-all.

Okla-homey
4/23/2009, 08:57 PM
All they're doing people is legitimizing the status quo. The Islamabad government has never been able to exert any control over that region. It's ruled by some of the most unsophisticated and unenlightened folks on the planet who are quite content to remain locked in the 14th century. Throttle-up the stonings and beheadings and woe be to any female who had hopes of a post-second grade education. F'-em and the goats they hump.

StoopTroup
4/24/2009, 12:23 AM
All they're doing people is legitimizing the status quo. The Islamabad government has never been able to exert any control over that region. It's ruled by some of the most unsophisticated and unenlightened folks on the planet who are quite content to remain locked in the 14th century. Throttle-up the stonings and beheadings and woe be to any female who had hopes of a post-second grade education. F'-em and the goats they hump.

I knew you have a soft spot for Hillary. :D

Crucifax Autumn
4/24/2009, 12:34 AM
I banged her. Twice.

Dio
4/24/2009, 01:04 PM
I banged her. Twice.

I'd bet that's once more than Bill did

StoopTroup
4/24/2009, 01:09 PM
Bill was a hound dog. Back when the pot was always thick in the air, he wore that **** out so bad she couldn't do it anymore. She's probably disabled.

jkjsooner
4/24/2009, 04:18 PM
I'm somewhat suspicious of this statement. I would assume any model of animal behavior would probably assume no access to motorized transportation.

I would also question whether the model could account for the goal oriented nature of humans.

JohnnyMack
4/24/2009, 04:39 PM
I would also question whether the model could account for the goal oriented nature of humans.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/30/fail.jpg

JohnnyMack
5/5/2009, 02:00 PM
Update:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30572929/

My Opinion Matters
5/5/2009, 03:08 PM
Heh. BigRedRon.

SoonerProphet
5/5/2009, 03:33 PM
http://www.lewrockwell.com/margolis/margolis146.html

JohnnyMack
5/5/2009, 03:45 PM
http://www.lewrockwell.com/margolis/margolis146.html

I'm not so naive as to think that the Taliban are going to take control of the nukes, rather I was simply pointing out the failures of the previous administration at actually doing anything about their existence.

Veritas
5/5/2009, 04:10 PM
http://www.lewrockwell.com/margolis/margolis146.html
I was hoping this would be a link to Cindy Margolis

SoonerProphet
5/5/2009, 07:34 PM
I'm not so naive as to think that the Taliban are going to take control of the nukes, rather I was simply pointing out the failures of the previous administration at actually doing anything about their existence.

The nukes, or the Taliban?

JohnnyMack
5/5/2009, 08:18 PM
Yes?

:D

The Taliban.

Harry Beanbag
5/6/2009, 03:04 AM
Yes?

:D

The Taliban.


Because the United States wasn't prepared, or even capable, to invade an ally. Is that what you're proposing now?

OU_Sooners75
5/6/2009, 03:18 AM
That pretty much opens up the US to attack the region then, right?

JohnnyMack
5/6/2009, 09:18 AM
Because the United States wasn't prepared, or even capable, to invade an ally. Is that what you're proposing now?

I was commenting on W's failures in dealing with the Taliban in Afghanistan post 09/11.

Harry Beanbag
5/6/2009, 09:33 AM
I was commenting on W's failures in dealing with the Taliban in Afghanistan post 09/11.


I know. I kinda figured letting them escape to Pakistan was part of it.

JohnnyMack
5/6/2009, 09:38 AM
I know. I kinda figured letting them escape to Pakistan was part of it.

What would have been wrong with tactical nuclear strikes in Tora Bora?

Harry Beanbag
5/6/2009, 09:41 AM
What would have been wrong with tactical nuclear strikes in Tora Bora?


Seriously? I never would have thought of you as part of the turn 'em to glass crowd.

JohnnyMack
5/6/2009, 09:48 AM
I'm not talking about a big one, just one that had let them know we were really pissed off about that whole slaughter of thousands of our innocents thing.

yermom
5/6/2009, 10:50 AM
yeah, because they didn't already know :rolleyes:

maybe we should have told the Saudis...

did you guys read the Margolis link, or are you just discounting it?

it sounds like the people in that region prefer the Sharia to the corrupt government. that might be the beginning of the problem

SoonerProphet
5/6/2009, 12:34 PM
Look, there is not much you can do about the whole situation. Big difference between modernization and Westernization. Sure, many will take the opportunity to increase potable water, transportation, sewage, and the like, but when it comes to doing things how we do it in the West, they ain't buying it. Homey may be on to something, "F-em", we sure as **** ain't going to change them.

yermom
5/6/2009, 12:38 PM
i'd be a lot happier about that if they didn't have nukes

BornandBred
5/6/2009, 12:51 PM
i'd be a lot happier about that if they didn't have nukes

This.




But the fact is, they DO have them. I wonder if they'd just sell them to us? That'd be some spending from Obama I could get behind.

Harry Beanbag
5/6/2009, 02:57 PM
India should take them out.

MojoRisen
5/6/2009, 04:00 PM
Do you think the Dems are ready to handle what is really going on in the middle east?

What would happen if there was a nuclear exchange in the middle east- say Pakistan nukes Isreal or India?

OU_Sooners75
5/7/2009, 04:39 AM
Do you think the Dems are ready to handle what is really going on in the middle east?

What would happen if there was a nuclear exchange in the middle east- say Pakistan nukes Isreal or India?


Afghanistan & Pakistan =/= middle east.

SoonerKnight
5/7/2009, 06:11 PM
Afghanistan & Pakistan =/= middle east.

Considered Asia and I bet we already know where the nukes are and may plan to "disable" them if need be. Pakistan poses a great threat because of their nukes. And we should stop with these missile raids and just carpet bomb. We have conventional bombs that the aftermath looks like we had nuked the crap out of them. I think we should bomb the ever living sh*t out of the and see if that does not change their tune. They are moving which means they can be tracked. This is the time to hit them and hit them hard before the burrough in and play hide and seek. I always hated that game anyway!!! The real touchy situation is if the Taliban takes pakistan then India is gonna get real itchy with the trigger. What is a bigger threat an inept Pakistan government or the Taliban which I am sure would not hold back on India?

TheHumanAlphabet
5/7/2009, 08:44 PM
Hats off to Johnny Mack - He called it. It isn't ending too well. Apparently Pakistan has nulled the agreement and has started taking back the area...

StoopTroup
5/8/2009, 02:41 AM
Do you think the Dems are ready to handle what is really going on in the middle east?

What would happen if there was a nuclear exchange in the middle east- say Pakistan nukes Isreal or India?

Bush wasn't ready so I think you already know the answer.