Those scholars lined up on the football field [Archive]

oupride

2/12/2009, 01:56 PM

sooner518

2/12/2009, 03:55 PM

sounds like the same attitude the football recruiting program has: "we're Texas. the sheer number of people drinking the orange kool-aid guarantees that we will have plenty of people applying to UT, the Harvard of the south"

MichiganSooner

2/13/2009, 12:07 PM

You can have Texas, diversity, and Austin or you can have OU, diversity, and Norman...I'll take the latter. Great article. Makes me proud.

yermom

2/13/2009, 12:39 PM

Norman can't quite compete with Austin's "diversity"

but there are much worse places to live than Norman :D

soonerboomer93

2/13/2009, 01:02 PM

Austin diversity is based on being diverse to be diverse

which is actually conformance

the_ouskull

2/13/2009, 11:38 PM

...and don't forget the gay sexin'. Tons.

the_ouskull

SoonerShark

2/14/2009, 12:04 AM

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/DN-bigrivals_12met.ART0.Central.Edition1.4bfea1a.html
Interesting article in the DMN this morning. The personal attention OU gives these kids really stands out. I say to these students, "Good for you. You made the right choice!" My son finished in the top third of his high school class in Houston and OU personally recruited him. Never got a sniff from UT and he applied anyway. I still remember the stunned look on his face when he opened his denial letter from UT.

How hard is it to get into UT? Vince Young cannot read. They admitted me as a resident of Texas since I had a Texas commercial drivers license over a one year period so I could drive a drilling companies vehicles where I worked one Summer. I went to OU instead. I wanted to go to school there for a while, but my allegience was always to OU. Just because I might spend a while in Russia I still root for the U.S. in hockey.

oupride

2/14/2009, 08:29 AM

How hard is it to get into UT? Vince Young cannot read. They admitted me as a resident of Texas since I had a Texas commercial drivers license over a one year period so I could drive a drilling companies vehicles where I worked one Summer. I went to OU instead. I wanted to go to school there for a while, but my allegience was always to OU. Just because I might spend a while in Russia I still root for the U.S. in hockey.
Its tough if you are a freshman, and you are a non-athlete. If you live in texas and don't finish in the top 10% of your class, you chances are slim to none.

MichiganSooner

2/14/2009, 08:47 AM

sooner518

2/14/2009, 09:43 AM

Ive been to Austin plenty. Its a pretty cool town but overrated. I guess Im just not as into bars as most people though

oupride

2/14/2009, 10:02 AM

[QUOTE=yermom;2579085]Norman can't quite compete with Austin's "diversity"

I don't think living in diversity is something to be talking about. We are all on this tiny planet which somehow spins in an orbit around a medium sized star in this vast universe. So what if some people were born in another nation or from another ethnic background. We are humans first, Americans second and what color we are or what language we speak does not matter.

Garza, UT's admissions officer, acknowledged that OU often offers incoming freshmen generous scholarships. But UT's reputation serves as "a strong magnet," he said.

"Oklahoma is one of those very aggressive schools that does a lot to get students to enroll," he said. "We're not necessarily offering the kind of money they're getting there. But we offer something else–this university, its diversity, the city of Austin.".

bluedogok

2/14/2009, 11:27 AM

Austin really isn't as "diverse" as they like to proclaim, it has a few small pockets of "diversity" around but it really isn't that different than anyplace else anymore. It may be more diverse and liberal than the rest of Texas or this region (not too difficult to be) but it is in no means "diverse and liberal" like the liberal meccas on the coasts.

UT (and A&M) are much more difficult to get into than they used to be, there are just so many more students out there trying to get in to college. Both UT (48,754) and A&M (48,039) have tried to cap their enrollment under 50,000 (undergrad and graduate) so that leaves a lot of potential students headed elsewhere like Texas Tech (28,422) UT-San Antonio (32,229) Texas State (29,125), North Texas (34,268), Texas-Arlington (24,888), Houston (36,104), UTEP (20,154) and the other 100 or so regional schools. Many of the campuses schools are larger than OU (29,931) or OSU (23,307), heck OU is much more difficult to get into than when I got in. My uncle in Dallas had a co-worker with one at UT and one at OU because OU ended up being cheaper for them because of scholarships, both had scholarships and they were a UT family.

I had a co-worker who graduated from A&M but she didn't start there. Even though she was near the top 10% if a small class even she had a higher GPA than some of the top 10% of some of the large school people she knew and would have been in the top 10% at a large school she was not accepted and went the jr. college route because it is easier to get into either as a transfer student than it is as an incoming freshman. That is one of the reasons why enrollment has exploded at the other campuses because people are going there for a year or two and transferring to UT or A&M.

oudivesherpa

2/14/2009, 01:30 PM

When I retired from a management position in he petroelum industry, I went back to school and got a Masters in Education. I now teach in a Houston area school. When I started five years ago Texas was the "it" school. I would ask a class of seniors if you go to any school in the coutry for free where would you go. UT was at the top of the list followed by Harvard, USC, Stanford and LSU (go figure). OU wasn't in the top five, this year when I asked, it was still UT, Harvard, but the rest of the list had changed to Standford, OU, and Texas A&M. (Hard to believe that OU was ahead of A&M,but as you get more into the rural areas A&M becomes much more popular).

My classes are a mix of Advanced placement and "grade level" classes, but OU has made a marked improvement as a University of choice in the last five years.

BTW
LSU was the school of choice for the "slobberknocker kids" you know the ones with the glazed look that keep saying you know.....

Vaevictis

2/14/2009, 01:51 PM

I saw an article recently where one of the bigwigs at UT was complaining that they essentially have no control over their admissions policy because of the top-10%-auto-admit-by-law thing they have down there.

That may be why UT didn't recruit your kid, they literally don't have room to recruit.

As far as Vince Young is concerned, UT used to have this server called x500.utexas.edu. Ever since they had the SSN break-in a few years back, they've taken all the athelete information off of it.

But it used to have student ID number (which was, as I recall, your SSN), your home address, your permanent address, phone number, major, and some other information.

One day I got bored and looked up Vince Young's information.

His major was "Kinesiology, Non-Teaching Option"

I looked it up. Probably a quarter of his degree program was, and I **** you not, playing sports and physical training. Anyone trying to tell you UT has superior academics as it applies to athletes is full of ****.

MI Sooner

2/14/2009, 03:40 PM

OU and Texas are both good schools, but Texas has a superior reputation, especially when it comes to grad schools. I'd describe them both as competitve, in terms of their admissions process, but neither are tremendously selective (like Ivys, etc.). Really, Big XII country and the Rockies don't have a whole lot of selective schools.

I grew up in Michigan, which doesn't have a lot of selective private schools, either, but U of M is pretty selective. Where do the upper-middle class white kids (the kids whose parents can foot tuition bills at elite schools and won't get a lot of scholarships) aspire to attend in OK and TX? Rice? I know someone upthread mentioned Harvard and Stanford, which draw nationally.

I was really surprised how many valedictorians and other top HS students I saw at OU. Where I was from, if they were well off, they'd be at elite liberal arts colleges, or other prestigous private schools like Northwestern, Notre Dame, Duke, etc. Obviously, I didn't meet the kids from OK who did go to schools like that, but I was surprised at the number who didn't.

MI Sooner

2/14/2009, 03:46 PM

Also, I should have noted that I went through the National Merit recruiting at OU around a dozen years ago, and that it was even more effective then, with attractive women doing the recruiting (I think that that Craig Hayes guy was an intern or new hire or something).

Anyway, I think that this recruiting effort may be limited just to National Merit Scholars, since OU likes to hang their hat on the number they enroll. I'm not sure they go to such lengths for kids with 4.0s that were in only in the 98th percentile on their PSATs, instead of the 99th, or whatever gets you National Merit status.

Texas_Longhorn

2/14/2009, 06:00 PM

OU admits 89% of the freshmen who apply and UT admits 51% of the freshman who apply. I wonder which school has much higher academics?

Vaevictis

2/14/2009, 06:52 PM

Hey, maybe not all athletes

Name:
Jordan S Shipley
Classification:
Graduate Student
Major/College:
Kinesiology, Graduate School
(... personal information omitted because I'm not that much of a bastard ...)

Kinesiology again.

*guffaw*

Vaevictis

2/14/2009, 07:06 PM

Dear Longhorn fan,

Your athletes are playing basketball, running track, lifting weights and fencing for college credit hours. A fairly significant proportion of them.

Way to lead the pack in athlete academics!

Texas_Longhorn

2/14/2009, 07:45 PM

Are you sure? I am a college professor but I don't know what courses the athletes are taking. I do know that Texas and Texas A&M are the top two academic institutions in the Big 12 and while I bleed burnt orange I don't judge people by their intelligence*.

*Well, in the classroom I do but you probably know what I mean. I'm a guest here so I don't want to get into a pissing contest but I will say Mack Brown in the last 3 years has turned down some kids who wanted to go to UT because they were smart enough. Calhoun is the most prominent one he refused to take because he is not even close to college material academically.

Vaevictis

2/14/2009, 08:39 PM

Mostly I'm being a smart ***.

The last time I looked at the degree requirements for the Kinesiology program in any meaningful way was back when I looked up Vince Young.

Yes, he was doing PE classes for credit. It was mandatory in his program.

Look, I will give credit where it's due. UT is a fine school, as is TAMU. Both of them have some world class programs, and a some top tier programs nationally too.

Mostly I object to UT fans talking smack about their academics with respect to their athletes because I know for a fact that an athlete can structure their degree program to include non-trivial amounts of PE and PT in their degree program. Whether they do or don't really doesn't matter -- the fact that it's an option is damning enough.

Kinesiology isn't all bad despite my mocking it. If structured properly, it can be a serious degree with a respectable difficulty level. Vince Young's non-cert Kinesiology program wasn't that, I assure you.

sooner518

2/14/2009, 09:15 PM

I will say Mack Brown in the last 3 years has turned down some kids who wanted to go to UT because they were smart enough. Calhoun is the most prominent one he refused to take because he is not even close to college material academically.

*http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/images/deadspin/2008/05/vince-young-shirtless.jpg

*- Yes, I realize you prefaced that statement by saying "in the last 3 years". I just really wanted to see a picture of Mr. Wonderlic shirtless in this thread.

oudivesherpa

2/15/2009, 06:10 PM

Are you sure? I am a college professor but I don't know what courses the athletes are taking. I do know that Texas and Texas A&M are the top two academic institutions in the Big 12 and while I bleed burnt orange I don't judge people by their intelligence*.

*Well, in the classroom I do but you probably know what I mean. I'm a guest here so I don't want to get into a pissing contest but I will say Mack Brown in the last 3 years has turned down some kids who wanted to go to UT because they were smart enough. Calhoun is the most prominent one he refused to take because he is not even close to college material academically.

Yes, and Vince Young was a National Merit Scholar at Madison High.

meoveryouxinfinity

2/15/2009, 06:47 PM

bluedogok

2/15/2009, 10:09 PM

OU admits 89% of the freshmen who apply and UT admits 51% of the freshman who apply. I wonder which school has much higher academics?
It doesn't mean much when you get the number of applications that UT does from the population base that lives here. As long as they keep a cap on their enrollment as the population ever expands, that number will only get smaller. I know that OU has a much larger enrollment now than when I was there and Tech is larger than when my wife was there where as UT is trying to shrink so they can be perceived as being more "elite".

Leroy Lizard

2/15/2009, 11:26 PM

Are you sure? I am a college professor but I don't know what courses the athletes are taking. I do know that Texas and Texas A&M are the top two academic institutions in the Big 12 and while I bleed burnt orange I don't judge people by their intelligence*.

Large research universities like UT don't give a rat's *** about undergraduate academics. These schools are for graduate students. If you are an undergrad and you attend UT, you are scum to the professors. Sure, you pay the university's bills. That is the only useful purpose you serve.

How much does teaching skill factor into faculty hiring at schools like UT? None at all. If you don't publish enough papers, you won't last long no matter how well you teach. If you publish enough papers, it doesn't matter how badly you teach.

Now take the real academic situation at a university like UT and consider the typical jock program an athlete will encounter. For all practical purposes, they aren't receiving any education at all. They would learn more if they picked up a job as a carpenter.

And I mean it.

BTW, if Mack Brown was willing to accept Vince Young into his program, then I am completely unimpressed. Every indication I have seen indicates that Vince Young has the brain of a small child. Not to say that other coaches are any better, but I'm not dumb enough to buy into the "Mack Brown only takes those who truly belong on a college campus" crap.

OUstud

2/16/2009, 01:55 AM

What the hell's diversity?

Frozen Sooner

2/16/2009, 02:06 AM

I recall this recruiting attention as a NMS in 1992, and it's absolutely what brought me to OU.

Alabama's School of Law uses the same techniques, and it's helped them improve their ranking significantly in the past few years.

007sooner

2/16/2009, 09:31 AM

This is horrible for the university and state. They recruit National Merit Scholars (mostly from out of state), pay them to go to OU, then upon graduating, the NMS's go back out of state. At OU I was an Honors Scholar (just about the only academic scholarship outside of President's Leadership Class) and only got $2,000/ year. I transferred to OCU (a much much more expensive private school) and ended up getting enough in scholarship to where I paid less per semester than I did at OU. This can be applied to basically any private/out of state school.

No, look. Even if all those kids leave the state (which they don't), OU is still doing really well in alum donations. People going off to get JDs and MBAs, etc., in other states are still going to give back to their alma mater, usually in much larger proportions than their scholarships. Not to mention the fact that a program like that does garner national recognition (for something other than just football) which will always pay off. I can see being bitter if you missed being a Scholar by a few percentage points and didn't get the scholarship, but that's no reason to knock the effectiveness of the program. I'm quite as proud of OU's academics as I am of the football team.

Vaevictis

2/16/2009, 05:07 PM

They recruit National Merit Scholars (mostly from out of state), pay them to go to OU, then upon graduating, the NMS's go back out of state.

Yeah, but that's no different than the rest of the student body. University graduates in general tend not to stay in Oklahoma simply because of economics.

People: Oklahoma's biggest export since 1932.

meoveryouxinfinity

2/16/2009, 07:18 PM

No, look. Even if all those kids leave the state (which they don't), OU is still doing really well in alum donations. People going off to get JDs and MBAs, etc., in other states are still going to give back to their alma mater, usually in much larger proportions than their scholarships. Not to mention the fact that a program like that does garner national recognition (for something other than just football) which will always pay off. I can see being bitter if you missed being a Scholar by a few percentage points and didn't get the scholarship, but that's no reason to knock the effectiveness of the program. I'm quite as proud of OU's academics as I am of the football team.

what? I wasn't a national merit scholar, but I was an "Honor Scholar," the most pathetic excuse for an academic scholarship ever.

meoveryouxinfinity

2/16/2009, 07:22 PM

Yeah, but that's no different than the rest of the student body. University graduates in general tend not to stay in Oklahoma simply because of economics.

People: Oklahoma's biggest export since 1932.

Ha, touche. But since Oklahomans pay state income tax, which the state gives back to the higher institutions (especially OSU and OU) and states like Texas don't have income tax, it isn't really moral for OU to give scholarships disproportionately to out of state students. Since OU is a public STATE school.

If you're into grass roots stuff like this, you'd be going crazy.

Vaevictis

2/16/2009, 07:50 PM

Eh, I think you're missing the purpose of those scholarships. They're really a marketing/promotional thing. OU is trying to raise its national image, and in turn increase the value of the degrees of its graduates.

And some of those NMS students do stick around. I happen to know a few.

sooner518

2/17/2009, 05:34 PM

what? I wasn't a national merit scholar, but I was an "Honor Scholar," the most pathetic excuse for an academic scholarship ever.

I wasn't a national merit scholar but I was an Oklahoma Board of Regents Scholar, which was essentially the same scholarship that national merit kids got. thats the main reason I went to OU. essentially free college.

bluedogok

2/17/2009, 10:55 PM

I wasn't a national merit scholar but I was an Oklahoma Board of Regents Scholar, which was essentially the same scholarship that national merit kids got. thats the main reason I went to OU. essentially free college.
My sister was as well, a freshman at OU in 94. She actually made money going to school with the scholarships.

007sooner

2/18/2009, 10:02 AM

It's a sweet deal, if you're in-state and have the scholarship. For out of state kids it costs a bit more and you certainly don't make money, but it's still a good deal and a great reason to pick OU (even over UT if you're from Texas and in the top ten percent at high school... not to mention you'd have to start liking burnt orange, which is enough to make anyone sick).

cjames317

2/18/2009, 12:20 PM

Where can I get the straight poop on the extent of what OU offers Nat'l Merit scholars? OU's website?

Frozen Sooner

2/18/2009, 12:49 PM

GottaHavePride

2/18/2009, 06:16 PM

I can tell you what it was back in 1992-1996 if that helps...

$2500 per semester regent's scholarship
Out of state tuition waiver (or a waiver of all fees for in-state kids)
$325 per semester president's scholarship
$675 per semester departmental scholarship
First-choice enrollment
Waived perquisites-if you felt you could take Calc IV and you hadn't taken III, go right ahead

Scholarship is renewable every fall and runs for 10 semesters. Renewal is contingent on maintenance of a 3.25 cumulative GPA.

I'm sure the dollar amounts have gone up in the last decade.

Yeah, that was pretty much my deal 1998-2003, except I think it was $2,750 per semester, or something. Being out-of-state I think I wound up paying about $1,000 per semester, but it means now I have a bachelor's and a master's with no student loan debt. Pretty sweet.

OU_Sooners75

2/19/2009, 04:51 AM

OU admits 89% of the freshmen who apply and UT admits 51% of the freshman who apply. I wonder which school has much higher academics?

That Texas LongWhorn Education is failing you....

Texas and Texas U: 48,000+ students and a population of Texas over 24 million
Oklahoma and Oklahoma U: 25,000+ students and a population of less than 4 million.

Lets see here. When you look at those numbers, if is natural that many more kids will be applying for and denied at Texas than at OU. Why? Simple math tells you that when there is a larger number of students applying to one institution, the numbers of denials will also be greater. Leading to a lower percentage of acceptance.

Thanks for your time nonetheless though.

OU_Sooners75

2/19/2009, 04:58 AM

*Well, in the classroom I do but you probably know what I mean. I'm a guest here so I don't want to get into a pissing contest but I will say Mack Brown in the last 3 years has turned down some kids who wanted to go to UT because they were smart enough. Calhoun is the most prominent one he refused to take because he is not even close to college material academically.

Please tell me you did not say that entire paragraph with a straight face, please!

You are going to name Jeremy Calhoun as being rejected by UT because of his intellect....While Texas and Mack Brown was happy to wine and dine a dumbass named Vince Young?

yeah OKAAAAY!!!

When you score a 6 on your NFL wonderlic test, you are proving to the world you are pretty ****ing stupid.

007sooner

2/19/2009, 07:04 PM

I can tell you what it was back in 1992-1996 if that helps...

$2500 per semester regent's scholarship
Out of state tuition waiver (or a waiver of all fees for in-state kids)
$325 per semester president's scholarship
$675 per semester departmental scholarship
First-choice enrollment
Waived perquisites-if you felt you could take Calc IV and you hadn't taken III, go right ahead

Scholarship is renewable every fall and runs for 10 semesters. Renewal is contingent on maintenance of a 3.25 cumulative GPA.

I'm sure the dollar amounts have gone up in the last decade.

http://www.ou.edu/go2/home/nationalmerit/oklahoma_residents.html or http://www.ou.edu/go2/home/nationalmerit/non-oklahoma_residents.html They've added some stuff since then, like the study abroad stipend (which pissed me off to no end because it was only for freshmen and they added it when I was a junior).

Frozen Sooner

2/19/2009, 07:13 PM

I'm pissed about that $1500 laptop allowance. That buys one heck of a nice laptop.

Stan Koop will be hearing from me. :mad:

bluedogok

2/20/2009, 12:17 AM

I can tell you what it was back in 1992-1996 if that helps...
My sister was there about that time (94-96), she changed majors and transferred to UCO (96-98). She lost a few OU journalism specific scholarships but could transfer on the regents program with no problem.

MI Sooner

2/21/2009, 08:42 PM

IIRC, being a Regent's Scholar was preferable to being a NMS, because, in many cases, departmental scholarships weren't available to NMS.

I was from out-of-state, and I think in-state tuition was around $60/credit-hour when I was a frosh, so the in-state kids got around $1,000 more than I did per semester (out-of-state NMS paid in-state tuition, in-state NMS paid $0).

Anyway, when I lived off campus, I think I got a check for over a grand every semester from OU (room/board ate it up when I was in the dorm) after my scholarships paid for everything, plus $750 per year (or maybe semester) from another source. It was about enough to cover rent, pay for books, and have a little left over.

The best part about the scholarship was that it was for five years, regardless of major. So I got to take 12 credit-hours a lot of sememsters, not work a job except in the summers, and thanks to A/P credit earned in HS, still graduate with 170 credits.

Vaevictis

2/22/2009, 01:00 AM

Heh, I know a guy who's applying the last year or two to his graduate studies.

It's a sweet, sweet deal.

sooner518

2/22/2009, 09:24 AM

My sister was as well, a freshman at OU in 94. She actually made money going to school with the scholarships.

I did as well. My parents handled all my college money stuff but when I graduated, they wrote me a check for the "leftovers" from the scholarship. I know my parents contributed some of their own money to me during college (like spending money etc...) instead of dipping into that scholarship account but it was a pretty awesome deal nonetheless. Not having student debt is very nice.