Need some legal advice regarding property line dispute

[mxATVracer10]

I'll save the details for now and try to give a cliff notes version but any more information needed just let me know and I'll post up...

My grandma has owned the property in question for at least 50+ years. There has been a fence up bordering her property for as long as she has owned it. Actually the portion of fence in question has been there since before she purchased the land. A guy just recently purchased a plot of land that happens to border with part of hers. He of course has it surveyed and the survey said his property crossed said fence into g-ma's property ~30-40 feet. Guy plants a corner post where his land supposedly ends, then goes to my grandma's house to ask for permission to use her road in order to get cement up to the post. (this is out in the sticks of Sapulpa by the way) Grandma goes up and realizes he's claiming part of her land as his and tells him to shove it... Sorry I guess I should get to the point since this is supposed to be a cliff notes version.:O My main question is that since that fence has been regarded as the property line for over 50 years, does that override what his surveyor claims is his? The fence has obviously been there for a looooong time, having grown into trees and such, so the proof is there. Thanks for reading and sorry for the rambling...:eddie:

[AggieTool]

I'll save the details for now and try to give a cliff notes version but any more information needed just let me know and I'll post up...

My grandma has owned the property in question for at least 50+ years. There has been a fence up bordering her property for as long as she has owned it. Actually the portion of fence in question has been there since before she purchased the land. A guy just recently purchased a plot of land that happens to border with part of hers. He of course has it surveyed and the survey said his property crossed said fence into g-ma's property ~30-40 feet. Guy plants a corner post where his land supposedly ends, then goes to my grandma's house to ask for permission to use her road in order to get cement up to the post. (this is out in the sticks of Sapulpa by the way) Grandma goes up and realizes he's claiming part of her land as his and tells him to shove it... Sorry I guess I should get to the point since this is supposed to be a cliff notes version.:O My main question is that since that fence has been regarded as the property line for over 50 years, does that override what his surveyor claims is his? The fence has obviously been there for a looooong time, having grown into trees and such, so the proof is there. Thanks for reading and sorry for the rambling...:eddie:

When I built my fences 1' in from my property line, I made the adjoining property owners sign a non-encroachment agreement.

Otherwise, 1' extra would have been theirs in 5 years IAW TX law.

Side note: Don't ask legal, financial, or domestic advice on interwebs forums.:O

[Frozen Sooner]

Under Alaska law, Grandma's up a creek. We had to slice part of our deck off when I was in high school because we had inadvertently built into the neighboring lot.

Don't know about OK law. Or TX law. Or really, if that's still AK law. I could see the argument from both sides-it's not like Grandma paid for it, but on the other hand it appears the prior owner abandoned it.

My advice: shotgun battle.

[AggieTool]

My advice: shotgun battle.

See what I mean.:D

[Frozen Sooner]

What? That'd settle the matter pretty conclusively.

[olevetonahill]

Its called squatters rights .
Its Grannies Land .
Nuff said

[A Sooner in Texas]

When my ex and I bought our house 16 years ago (in Texas), we learned after we closed that our fence encroached a couple of feet into the neighbor's yard behind us. We were told by an atty. basically that because "possession is 9/10 of the law" that after 12 years it's ours. The neighbor has never said a word, either.
But obviously you do need a legal eagle to give you an opinion/advice.

[olevetonahill]

The guy claiming the land can try to take her to court , but he will lose.

[Okla-homey]

It depends. Read this article on Oklahoma "adverse possession." Its pretty readable and should answer most of your questions. Especially Section II (B)(3) of the article ("boundary by acquiescence")

http://www.okbar.org/obj/articles_01/sa031001.htm

This could get complicated, cost millions of lives, zillions in legal fees, go on for decades and contribute to global warming. ;) Or, granny could just give up the ten yards wide strip of rural land "out in the sticks" as you say. She using it for anything? Is it worth a legal battle?

Alternatively, she might be able to bake a pie and make a pot of coffee, have the guy over for snackies and they could decide to split the difference, 5 yds for granny and 5 yds for the new guy. A lawyer who practices real estate can draw up an agreement and new deeds for each based on their settlement, the nominal expense of which they can split, record the deeds and bingo! Problem solved. And no clouds on either title.

If the kitchen table do-it-yourself settlement isn't in the cards, its gonna take lawyers and a judge to get this sorted out and it'll cost more.

[olevetonahill]

Said survey should have been done prior to the nOOb buying the property and all issues resolved 1st .

Whats that phrase "Caveat Emptor " I think i spelled it right .;)

[Frozen Sooner]

It depends. Read this article on Oklahoma "adverse possession." Its pretty readable and should answer most of your questions. Especially Section II (B)(3) of the article ("boundary by acquiescence")

http://www.okbar.org/obj/articles_01/sa031001.htm

This could get complicated, cost millions of lives, zillions in legal fees, go on for decades and contribute to global warming. ;) Or, granny could just give up the ten yards wide strip of rural land "out in the sticks" as you say. She using it for anything? Is it worth a legal battle?

Alternatively, she might be able to bake a pie and make a pot of coffee, have the guy over for snackies and they could decide to split the difference, 5 yds for granny and 5 yds for the new guy. A lawyer who practices real estate can draw up an agreement and new deeds for each based on their settlement, the nominal expense of which they can split, record the deeds and bingo! Problem solved. And no clouds on either title.

If the kitchen table do-it-yourself settlement isn't in the cards, its gonna take lawyers and a judge to get this sorted out and it'll cost more.

Shotgun battle is an ABA-approved alternative dispute resolution method, I'll have you know.

[mxATVracer10]

I'm cool with the shotgun battle, especially since I'd start the battle first and then mention what it was all about afterwards. ;)

I agree its not much land in question, but my grandma has lived there most of her life. My mom and dad live in a house next to grandma's and even me and my family built on the property in the pasture in front of their houses, so the land is being used. They are so set to not give up anything for one based on principle alone. My mom is REALLY fired up about it and told me last night "your grandpa would have never had this problem." (he passed about 20 years ago from cancer) So she's fighting for what she knows her mom and dad worked so hard to get. We were told by a surveyor friend that after 15 years a property fence line becomes the property line. Have you heard anything like that before Homey?

[mxATVracer10]

From the article Homey linked....

Many Oklahoma cases discuss the concept of "boundary by acquiescence." This somewhat misleading term is used because, in many cases, both parties are, or the court finds that they should be, aware of the location of a fence or other boundary monument, but are not aware that the fence is not located on the actual property line. This doctrine is essentially a restatement of the Oklahoma rule that the claimant does not have to know whether or not the fence is located on the true boundary of the property. Knowledge is not the issue. Rather, the court will examine whether the parties used the fence as the boundary for the property for the requisite number of years. If so, then the fence will be deemed to be the new boundary for the property.




In a different case, a defendant alleged that acquiescence requires knowledge of the true line.23 This was also rejected by the court. The fence was recognized by the owners as the dividing line for over fifteen years and hence, the fence became the boundary between the lands. Another defendant claimed that acquiescence only arises out of a dispute or uncertainty over the true boundary line.24 While there are some jurisdictions that have required a dispute or uncertainty in acquiescence cases, the Oklahoma courts have followed the line of reasoning that does not require dispute or uncertainty. As such, this defense has also been rejected. In another case, the defendant simply denied that he or his predecessors acquiesced. The court found his denial irrelevant when the evidence supported a finding that the parties had respected the boundary established by the fence for over fifteen years.25



Am I reading that right to answer the "fence as a boundary for fifteen years" as score one for granny?

[OUMallen]

She should win as part of adverse possession, but the problem is you almost certainly need a court proceeding to make that legally binding. Otherwise, you just have two people arguing. She shouldn't, however, in ANY way give up possession or give up her argument that it's hers.

(Like someone said above, these things are usually best handled over a pot of coffee and a handshake.)

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Or a knife to the throat.

GET OFF MY LAWN.

[Okla-homey]

From the article Homey linked....




Am I reading that right to answer the "fence as a boundary for fifteen years" as score one for granny?

In a word, yes. But as the previous poster stated, barring agreement between granny and the new guy, you'll need some kind of judicial decree to make granny's title bulletproof in a subsequent dispute. And that will cost money in lawyer fees, time and court costs.

[GrapevineSooner]

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say Granny doesn't have the title insured on her house?

I'm no lawyer, but it does seem like without that important piece in this debate that she is, indeed, up that well known tributary without any means of propulsion.

[Okla-homey]

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say Granny doesn't have the title insured on her house?

I'm no lawyer, but it does seem like without that important piece in this debate that she is, indeed, up that well known tributary without any means of propulsion.

FWIW, all so-called "title insurance" really promises is to pay the policyholder the legal fees and costs required to achieve good title if there is a subsequently discovered defect. It can't "fix" a bad title.

Moreover, if granny inherited the place, odds are she didn't buy title insurance when she did so.

[mxATVracer10]

She didnt inherit the place, unless you call it that after grandpa passed away, they bought the place right after they married.... Is it right that she should go ahead and lawyer up and file the injunction or should we just keep taking his corner post down and tossing it back over the fence until he gets the legal ball rolling?

[Frozen Sooner]

So, Robert Frost was apparently all kinds of wrong.

[I Am Right]

First of all, ignore posters, Hire a lawyer.

[Okla-homey]

She didnt inherit the place, unless you call it that after grandpa passed away, they bought the place right after they married.... Is it right that she should go ahead and lawyer up and file the injunction or should we just keep taking his corner post down and tossing it back over the fence until he gets the legal ball rolling?

Might you at least consider visiting about it first with the guy? Might be able to work something out.

If he say's f-you! then call a lawyer there in Creek County.

[Okla-homey]

First of all, ignore posters, Hire a lawyer.

even if the posters are lawyers? :O

[I Am Right]

Sue his ***, it is the American way.

[Okla-homey]

Sue his ***, it is the American way.

and to think, they call us "sharks.";)

[OUDoc]

She didnt inherit the place, unless you call it that after grandpa passed away, they bought the place right after they married.... Is it right that she should go ahead and lawyer up and file the injunction or should we just keep taking his corner post down and tossing it back over the fence until he gets the legal ball rolling?

This is going to end up on the local news, isn't it?

[I Am Right]

even if the posters are lawyers? :O

Especially

[olevetonahill]

Put up " No TRESPASSING" signs then file charges on his ***.

[OUAlumni1990]

Grannies law > state law (in my opinion)

[Okla-homey]

This is going to end up on the local news, isn't it?


"On tonights Two Works for You news; It all started over a simple boundary dispute. Then it all went horribly wrong. 78 year-old Beverly Jean Snodgrass of Sapulpa was booked into the Creek County jail today on a criminal complaint including charges she blasted her neighbor with her deceased husband's shotgun over a disputed ten yards of land. Tune in tonight at 5:30 for the whole story.":D

[Frozen Sooner]

This is going to end up on the local news, isn't it?

That's what I'm gunning for.

Get it? GUNNING!

[TUSooner]

Since you are in Oklahoma, I have no hesitation about saying that the land is Grandma's through the venerable civil law doctrine of acquisitive prescription, which does not apply - as such - in OK (but is essentially the same as tat adverse possession stuff. Of course, I might be wrong in Louisiana, anyway. :) :O

I just like saying "acquisitive prescription."

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I like the posting of the property line/fence. That will give cover and identify assumed ownership should anything happen prior to any legal settlement.

[mxATVracer10]

We've got "Private Property - No Tresspassing" signs all over the place, and at least three in sight as you cross over the cattle guard onto our property(only way in or out), so I think that part's covered.

We have talked with the guy, he was fairly cool with me, but my mom and dad and him have not been able to see eye to eye. Pops went up and took his post down and put it back on his side of the fence Wednesday (when all the fun started) and the guy came back yesterday and put it back up and had his buckets of cement mixed and ready to set it whenever I pulled up. That has took it to another level in my parents book so they are going to do whatever it takes to make sure someone doesnt lay claim to whats been in our family for ages.

If the story ends up on the news, I'll do my best to give the SO and SF a shout out! :D

[Frozen Sooner]

I've found what works best is to have "SoonerFans.com" painted on your back while the cops are dragging you shirtless to the car.

Make sure you're hopped up on at LEAST two or three meth bumps.

When you go down, go down swinging. Make us proud!

[Spray]

Here:

http://www.okbar.org/public/services/service.htm

[Okla-homey]

Abraham Lincoln, our second greatest president (behind Washington), once gave a lecture to a state bar association. Based on his 23 year arduous experience as a lawyer traveling the circuits of the courts of his district and state, Lincoln said to his lawyer audience:


"Discourage litigation. Persuade your neighbors to compromise whenever they can. Point out to them how the nominal winner is often a real loser; in fees, expenses and waste of time. As a peacemaker, the lawyer has a superior opportunity of being a good man. There will still be business enough."

Still, mighty fine advice.

[Breadburner]

Have a pissing contest.....

[soonerboomer93]

and to think, they call us "sharks.";)

that's an insult to sharks

[I Am Right]

and to think, they call us "sharks.";)

Maybe the sharks can sue you for deframation.