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OklahomaTuba
2/4/2009, 08:59 AM
Awesome article. Nails every reason why this crap sandwich of Obama's should never see the light of day.


The Stimulus Package Is More Debt We Don't Need
Can Obama really defend this 'line by line'?
By TOM COBURN

As the Senate considers a massive $1.1 trillion stimulus bill, it is vital that the American people ask hard questions of their elected officials. When they do, it will become very clear that the bill will not only fail to stimulate the economy, but could seriously delay economic recovery.

As a nation, we got into this mess by spending and investing money that didn't exist. We won't get out of it by doing more of the same.

Yet this is precisely what this bill proposes we do. Less than 10% of the bill could be considered true stimulus, if one assumes tax credits and infrastructure spending will jolt the economy. The other 90% of the bill represents one of the most egregious acts of generational theft in our nation's history, with taxpayer money going to special-interest earmarks, an ill-conceived bailout to states, and permanent spending increases that expand government's reach in areas like health care and education.

The bill's selling point is that three million jobs will be created or saved by this package. What's alarming is that each job will cost $286,000 to create or save. Moreover, one in five will be a government job.

One of the more egregious provisions in the Senate bill is a $166 billion bailout plan for the states that rewards bad budgeting at the state level. Simply sending cash to states without asking for appropriate sacrifices is grossly irresponsible. States will no longer have the incentive to live within their means, because they'll assume the federal government will be there to bail them out.

Instead of a bailout, Congress could offer states an emergency loan that could be repaid at a low interest rate. This approach apparently wasn't considered because the members who wrote the bill aren't simply interested in saving jobs -- they want to push their agenda along the way.

A key example is health care. The Senate bill doubles the amount of the Medicaid bailout requested by governors and lays the groundwork for government-run health care, which invariably leads to rationing. This ideological overreach has led even some Democrats, like Nebraska's Ben Nelson, to express concern that various "sacred cows" in the package are hurting the bill's overall goals.

The bill is also loaded with old-fashioned pork, despite President Barack Obama's insistence that members of Congress refrain from adding earmarks. In fact, the bill contains the most expensive earmark in history: $2 billion for the FutureGen near-zero emission power plant in Matoon, Ill.

Other nonstimulative pork provisions include $88 million for a new polar icebreaker for the Coast Guard, $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees, and $850 million for Amtrak.

What is not in the bill is as troubling as what is. The package does nothing to clear the toxic assets and bad mortgages that helped trigger the credit crisis. It also contains very little meaningful tax relief to make small businesses and American companies more competitive. Instead, the tax provisions of the stimulus are essentially a modest cash handout that repeats the failed policy of George W. Bush's rebate-check stimulus.

Finally, the bill's sponsors have made zero effort to pay for this new spending by eliminating programs that aren't working. Mr. Obama's pledge to go through the budget line-by-line has made no impression on the bill's authors, nor has the plight of millions of Americans faced with tough spending choices.

Dozens of independent watchdog groups, think tanks and elected officials on both sides of the aisle have spent decades identifying areas of the budget that can be cut. Yet Congress remains focused on finding "shovel ready" projects when at least $300 billion in wasteful programs are "scissor ready" today.

One of the lessons I've learned from the practice of medicine is the danger of treating symptoms rather than the disease. Doing so makes the disease worse and causes the symptoms to come back with a vengeance. It's time for government to quit masking the symptoms and deal with this crisis at its source: toxic assets in the mortgage market and a federal government that continues to pollute our economy with pork and failed interventionist policies.

Dr. Coburn is a Republican senator from Oklahoma.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123371083449746103.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

yermom
2/4/2009, 10:06 AM
In fact, the bill contains the most expensive earmark in history: $2 billion for the FutureGen near-zero emission power plant in Matoon, Ill.

Other nonstimulative pork provisions include... $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees, and $850 million for Amtrak.


those things don't really bother me... but stop bailing out corporations. let them fail and evolve. alhough, i would like to see something of an incentive to operate here vs. Mexico or India, etc... the state thing makes sense as well

OklahomaTuba
2/4/2009, 10:24 AM
They just need to start this thing over and focus on just 3 things: the housing market, the credit market, and tax cuts. All three would fix the problem. Building a power plant in Ill or buying some hybrids won't.

SCOUT
2/4/2009, 11:37 AM
I think the fact that these two statement are back to back is very funny.


and $850 million for Amtrak

those things don't really bother me...but stop bailing out corporations. let them fail and evolve.

OklahomaTuba
2/4/2009, 01:18 PM
Maybe throwing money at Amtrak can help the 500,000,000 American's who are losing jobs on a monthly basis??

OklahomaTuba
2/4/2009, 01:21 PM
Seems the complete stupidity of the Porkulus is starting to sink in...


Fifty percent (50%) of U.S. voters say the final economic recovery plan that emerges from Congress is at least somewhat likely to make things worse rather than better http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/economic_stimulus_package/50_say_stimulus_plan_likely_to_make_things_worse

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/4/2009, 01:24 PM
i would like to see something of an incentive to operate here vs. Mexico or India, etc...How should we deal with those pesky unions?

Vaevictis
2/4/2009, 01:34 PM
How should we deal with those pesky unions?

Get managers with the sense, commitment and courage to tell them "Go ahead and strike" when what they're demanding is too much.

You know all the absurd stuff we talk about when we talk about unions working for the big 3? Like making $70/hr to put on hubcaps, or getting paid to sit in a room?

You know management had to agree to that stuff, right?

yermom
2/4/2009, 03:30 PM
I think the fact that these two statement are back to back is very funny.

Amtrak as an idea is cool. it's not just some corporation. if it was more widely used they could get the costs down and compete with airlines and cars

i don't mind the government giving that a boost for the long term

OklahomaTuba
2/4/2009, 03:38 PM
Amtrak is cool? Ever ridden it? It F'kn sucks monkey ***.

Gubment shouldn't be involved in this, except for laying and maintaining the tracks, and that should be a state problem, not a federal problem.

yermom
2/4/2009, 03:59 PM
other being slow, it's pretty cool

it's way better than a bus and lots more room than a plane

still, i'm not sure why this is in that particular bill, other than decreasing our oil consumption

Vaevictis
2/4/2009, 04:24 PM
Actually, Amtrak is a classic case of government subsidy distorting the market.

Except in this case, it's not the government giving money to Amtrak that's distorting the market. It's all the federal and state funds going to the highway network that's doing it.

OklahomaTuba
2/4/2009, 05:11 PM
Heh.

You know its bad when the Iraq War is more popular than the porkulus.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/4/2009, 06:15 PM
Get managers with the sense, commitment and courage to tell them "Go ahead and strike" when what they're demanding is too much.

You know all the absurd stuff we talk about when we talk about unions working for the big 3? Like making $70/hr to put on hubcaps, or getting paid to sit in a room?

You know management had to agree to that stuff, right?With a strike, businesses don't like the bad PR for the firm, not to mention the actual shutdown of business and its production, and the violence or threat of violence if they hire outside the union(if that's even legal)

jkjsooner
2/4/2009, 07:14 PM
They just need to start this thing over and focus on just 3 things: the housing market, the credit market, and tax cuts. All three would fix the problem. Building a power plant in Ill or buying some hybrids won't.

How do you fix the housing market? We're in a pickle because the housing market can't be "fixed." Any attempt to do so will fail and will only delay the inevitable continuing fall in housing prices.

Tulsa_Fireman
2/4/2009, 07:16 PM
It's legal here, baby!

Whoohoooo!

jkjsooner
2/4/2009, 07:30 PM
Amtrak is cool? Ever ridden it? It F'kn sucks monkey ***.


I have. I've taken it several times between DC and NYC. It rocks! It's a whole lot more relaxing than taking a plane and when you subtract out the overhead of taking the a plane the Amtrak is just as fast or faster.

I recognize that that might be a different experience than what you had considering the line between DC and Boston is much more heavily used and is situated perfectly for Amtrak.

Unfortunately Amtrak is more expensive than a plane ride between DC and NYC but that is probably due to its popularity.

Vaevictis
2/4/2009, 07:58 PM
With a strike, businesses don't like the bad PR for the firm, not to mention the actual shutdown of business and its production, and the violence or threat of violence if they hire outside the union(if that's even legal)

... like I said. Managers with sense, commitment and courage to let them strike when demands aren't reasonable.

If a CBA is throttling the company, at least half of the blame lies with management, because they're one of the two parties that agreed to it.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
2/4/2009, 08:16 PM
... like I said. Managers with sense, commitment and courage to let them strike when demands aren't reasonable.

If a CBA is throttling the company, at least half of the blame lies with management, because they're one of the two parties that agreed to it.Stated or implied threat to you or your family? (IOW, the union situation is out of control, and we all know it)

Veritas
2/4/2009, 09:23 PM
You know all the absurd stuff we talk about when we talk about unions working for the big 3? Like making $70/hr to put on hubcaps, or getting paid to sit in a room?

You know management had to agree to that stuff, right?
If you walk up to me with a gun and say "give me your wallet or I'll blow your ****in' balls off," it's still robbery, even though I took my wallet out of my pocket and put it in your hand.

Okla-homey
2/4/2009, 09:48 PM
Pull the plug on Amtrack and see if some private entity wants it. I'd love to see the Japanese roll in and create an electric 150mph bullet line from Boston to Washington with stops in all the big towns in between.

OklahomaTuba
2/4/2009, 11:54 PM
How do you fix the housing market? We're in a pickle because the housing market can't be "fixed." Any attempt to do so will fail and will only delay the inevitable continuing fall in housing prices.Lot of interesting proposals out there, including the 4% mortgage backed by the gubment. Seems like there are some good ideas out there, too bad none of them are in the stimulus.

OklahomaTuba
2/5/2009, 12:06 AM
I have. I've taken it several times between DC and NYC. It rocks! It's a whole lot more relaxing than taking a plane and when you subtract out the overhead of taking the a plane the Amtrak is just as fast or faster.

I recognize that that might be a different experience than what you had considering the line between DC and Boston is much more heavily used and is situated perfectly for Amtrak.

Unfortunately Amtrak is more expensive than a plane ride between DC and NYC but that is probably due to its popularity.
Glad its relaxing and all, but thats hardly a reason to throw billions of dollars away on the black hole that is Amtrak. And the train from DC to Boston costs twice as much as a flight and takes 4 times as long. IT SUCKS!

And Based on my experience overseas in Asia and Europe, Amtrak cannot compare to what is offered over there. Its not even close, really. They have faster trains, lower prices, and better service.

JR Rail in Japan is a thing of beauty, and its privately run from what I remember, although the Japanese government does maintain the rail network.

Its a waste of money, and always has been.

soonerscuba
2/5/2009, 12:08 AM
Pull the plug on Amtrack and see if some private entity wants it. I'd love to see the Japanese roll in and create an electric 150mph bullet line from Boston to Washington with stops in all the big towns in between.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acela

OklahomaTuba
2/5/2009, 12:09 AM
Pull the plug on Amtrack and see if some private entity wants it. I'd love to see the Japanese roll in and create an electric 150mph bullet line from Boston to Washington with stops in all the big towns in between.

If anyone could make it work, the Japz could.

OklahomaTuba
2/5/2009, 12:13 AM
Heh.

At an average speed of 86 miles per hour (140 km/h), the Acela Express is not significantly faster than the Denver Zephyr service that ran at an average speed of 77 mph (124 km/h) between Chicago and Denver in the early 1960s.

I wonder how much money that technological leap cost us all??

Vaevictis
2/5/2009, 03:34 AM
Stated or implied threat to you or your family? (IOW, the union situation is out of control, and we all know it)

... as I said, one of the qualities necessary is courage.

You know what you're getting into when you sign up for the job. Is it right that these things happen? No. But assuming management should just roll over is like assuming a cop or soldier should roll over just because the other side is armed.

If you take an executive level job with a company with a potentially violent union, you know what you're getting into. If you're not willing to deal with it, don't take the job.

Vaevictis
2/5/2009, 03:36 AM
If you walk up to me with a gun and say "give me your wallet or I'll blow your ****in' balls off," it's still robbery, even though I took my wallet out of my pocket and put it in your hand.

If threats of violence are why management signed these contracts, they should be going to court to get them thrown out.

OklahomaTuba
2/5/2009, 10:55 AM
OH NOES!!!!!

President Barack Obama warned on Thursday that failure to act on an economic recovery package could plunge the nation into a long-lasting recession that might prove irreversible, a fresh call to a recalcitrant Congress to move quickly.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090205/ap_on_go_pr_wh/congress_stimulus_126

Wonder if he could explain how creating 3 million government jobs will keep us from plunging into never-ending depression?????