Katrina vs. Kentucky...

[Okla-homey]

a contrast of disasters

Kentuckians have failed to construct the proper "hep us" signs, although hundreds of thousands are literally trapped in dark and icey coves and hollers behind countless tons of fallen timber. Old folks, widder wimmen, pregnant gals, younguns, and babies. Trapped!

Also, they must be allowing a little cold weather to prevent them from wholesale looting at the Wal-Marts and the Best Buy, despite the fact they have no groceries or way to get water from wells with now silent electrical pumps.

I do not understand why they have not been shooting at policemen, deputies, national guardsmen and electrical linemen as I know they have the proper weapons to do so.

In short, the people of Kentucky have utterly failed to display proper disaster behavior.

What's more, no sign of Air Force One on the Louisville tarmac. wassup with that?


http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/6750/captaf3676d4fd004c519c4vu6.jpg
Spc. Michael Hagan with the Kentucky National Guard walks past storm damage as he goes door-to-door checking on residents Sunday, Feb. 1, 2009, in Clinton, Ky. National Guard troops made their way into isolated Kentucky communities like Clinton Sunday to check on residents walloped by a winter storm that Gov. Steve Beshear called the biggest natural disaster ever to hit the state.(AP Photo/Jeff Roberson)

[reevie]

You think those cops and guardsmen are going to go up those hills without cover? I have family members who won't go see their relatives unless it's the middle of a sunny day, they honk up the hill and show their hands until instructed to get off the ground.

[StoopTroup]

For me not Landing Air Force One in New Orleans wasn't Bush's mistake. It was actually taking the time to fly over something that he had plenty of intell on. He could have done much more in the initial stages to keep a lot of that BS that happened to a minimum. Remember when there was a law that stated if you were caught looting...you'd get shot? Putting a couple of those type if incidents on the news would do wonders for future looters next time they think it's "Their Time to get what's coming to them".

Also...Katrina definitely was a learning process for me as a U.S. Citizen. I had no idea that they were only there to assist. Most of America took the words "Federal Emergency Management Agency" to mean that they actually were supposed to come in...access the needs...and triage the early stages of assistance.

Knowing that we are paying millions...maybe even more than that for all I know...to have an Agency that basically is there to help you set up meetings once things are really good and screwed up at the State Level....well it eases my mind. Anything happens around here and we're short of food...we are gonna skin a FEMA Employee and make BBQ out of them to help down at the breadlines.

[TUSooner]

I love my brother Homey, but he's stepped on my tail.

That comparison has superficial appeal while being fundamentally false. These disasters are not alike; it's like saying, "Look how well he handled that broken arm compared to how she handled that bullet in the face." (KY death toll = 55; Katrina Death toll = >1500, and that's just the tiny beginning of the comparisons.) You'll have to come up with a better trick than that to show cultural superiority. (And if that's not the premise, what is?)

Take ANY big city, evacuate most of the people with the means to travel freely, leave the rest behind - especially those in the poorest and "baddest" part of town, fill the city up with toxic water, sprinkle in a drop of racial tension, and then sit back and watch. Just watch. Then let's compare notes.

And you'd think those kaintucks are a saintly nation of The Right Reverend Tim T. Messiahs -- refusing all outside aid as they stoically chop up the furniture so they can have a fire to roast the mule on. The gub'ment and FEMA are HELPING people in KY. They are taking people food and necessities. They are doing better than they did after Katrina, because of Katrina.

Sorry to get on my soapbox. I will not deny the problems of New Orleans, past and present, including a disgusting chunk of the population. But this comparison is spurious.

[LosAngelesSooner]

No...no...it's easier to just blindly and irrationally hate.

[Rhino]

Spc. Michael Hagan with the Kentucky National Guard walks past storm damage as he goes door-to-door checking on residents Sunday, Feb. 1, 2009, in Clinton, Ky. National Guard troops made their way into isolated Kentucky communities like Clinton Sunday to check on residents walloped by a winter storm that Gov. Steve Beshear called the biggest natural disaster ever to hit the state.(AP Photo/Jeff Roberson) Oklahoma had its biggest natural disaster in December 2007. It doesn't mean it was ANYTHING like Katrina.

[olevetonahill]

Katrina was Bad no question.
I think what Homey is sayin(not sure) is that theres a differance between those affected , some want everything given to em and some want to be helped to the extent that they can get back to helping themselves .

Here In Leflore county we didnt have the Ice probs the last to years that hit a Large portion of our GREAT state .
But in 2000 we did .
My son and his Family and My Momma all crowded in my little shack, because No one had lectric or water . I on the other hand had a generator and Lots of food and water .
My son and I went to town every day cuttin trees out of the road and stopping By neighbors and clearing their Driveways so they could get out to if they needed to .
The ice kept bringing down trees after we went thru , about 4 days and all the trees that were going to fall had fallen . I was with out lectric fer 18 days
My sons was back on after just a few days so he took his family home and took My Momma with em .
What Im sayin is it was an effort to HELP neighbors , not go out and try to get some Heineken.
My Momma got a few bucks from Fema cause she was old and stuff.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Can I help neighbors and slip into an abandoned wal mart for some heineken on the way back home?

[TUSooner]

My problem is you who bring this cheap stale **** up every time there's trouble somewhere are judging the whole city of New Orleans and all it's people on a few minutes of newsreel footage taken when things were at their worst and the governments were in hiding or fiddling. It's intellectually and morally bankrupt and it serves only to validate ignorance and prejudice. And it is not based on the whole truth.

First, you people just can't seem to get it through your heads what a MASSIVE disaster Katrina was. A major city was emptied of most of its people and soaked in toxic water for three weeks. And you try to compare your keyhole view of that huge disaster to an ice storm. Bogus. I don't care how bad your ice storm is, it's nothing compared to Katrina.

Second, you guys willfully ignore the people who got out their boats and went places they would never go to help people they never knew. You ignore the people looked after their neighbors' homes - the ones that were not under water, that is. You ignore that Tens of Thousands of families lost EVERYTHING, and they didn't get it back when things thawed out and the power came back on. Most of them just came home and quietly rebuilt as best they could - and are still doing it. But you cheap-shot artists blast away at the easy target of the few lowlifes who made good news footage. You foolishly let yourselves think everybody in NOLA was looting. You see poster of some brother with a tub of Heinies and you think you know it all. That's bullsh!t.

Yeah, there were some pathetic people who failed to take care of themselves, and there were some rotten people who took advantage of the anarchy. But its a damn fool who think those kind of people don't live in any big city. Put that part of YOUR holy city in the Katrina scenario (not a few days of ice) and then tell me about superior moral virtue. It's a shame that people on this board who are supposedly smart and compassionate are buying into this simplistic crap. It stinks to heaven of smug, self-righteousness, hypocritical arrogance.

What's the point anyway? That [white people /
yankees / hillbillies / country folk / Protestants / "real" Americans / Republicans] are more virtuous than [Frogs/ ****ers/ Papists/ dagoes / Democrats / commies]? Thin sauce, seasoned with bigotry. Get off your thrones in the clouds and quit looking down you noses in judgment of things you don't really know about.

Am I pist? No, I'm ****ing pist.

[Okla-homey]

My problem is you who bring this cheap stale **** up every time there's trouble somewhere are judging the whole city of New Orleans and all it's people on a few minutes of newsreel footage taken when things were at their worst and the governments were in hiding or fiddling. It's intellectually and morally bankrupt and it serves only to validate ignorance and prejudice. And it is not based on the whole truth.

First, you people just can't seem to get it through your heads what a MASSIVE disaster Katrina was. A major city was emptied of most of its people and soaked in toxic water for three weeks. And you try to compare your keyhole view of that huge disaster to an ice storm. Bogus. I don't care how bad your ice storm is, it's nothing compared to Katrina.

Second, you guys willfully ignore the people who got out their boats and went places they would never go to help people they never knew. You ignore the people looked after their neighbors' homes - the ones that were not under water, that is. You ignore that Tens of Thousands of families lost EVERYTHING, and they didn't get it back when things thawed out and the power came back on. Most of them just came home and quietly rebuilt as best they could - and are still doing it. But you cheap-shot artists blast away at the easy target of the few lowlifes who made good news footage. You foolishly let yourselves think everybody in NOLA was looting. You see poster of some brother with a tub of Heinies and you think you know it all. That's bullsh!t.

Yeah, there were some pathetic people who failed to take care of themselves, and there were some rotten people who took advantage of the anarchy. But its a damn fool who think those kind of people don't live in any big city. Put that part of YOUR holy city in the Katrina scenario (not a few days of ice) and then tell me about superior moral virtue. It's a shame that people on this board who are supposedly smart and compassionate are buying into this simplistic crap. It stinks to heaven of smug, self-righteousness, hypocritical arrogance.

What's the point anyway? That [white people /
yankees / hillbillies / country folk / Protestants / "real" Americans / Republicans] are more virtuous than [Frogs/ ****ers/ Papists/ dagoes / Democrats / commies]? Thin sauce, seasoned with bigotry. Get off your thrones in the clouds and quit looking down you noses in judgment of things you don't really know about.

Am I pist? No, I'm ****ing pist.

Got it. Not allowed, under any circumstances, to kid/josh/joke/criticize or employ sarcasm re Katrina or the people who endured it and its aftermath*. I'll make a note of it.:O

*Except of course to pillory the former administration. That's still fine, and even encouraged.

[TUSooner]

Got it. Not allowed, under any circumstances, to kid/josh/joke/criticize or employ sarcasm re Katrina or the people who endured it and its aftermath*. I'll make a note of it.:O

*Except of course to pillory the former administration. That's still fine, and even encouraged.

Sorry, man, you just hit the nerve that bypasses my otherwise keen and sparkling sense of humor. If that were the only "joke" like that I'd ever heard I might not have gone off; but I've heard that messsage so often that the humor misses the mark. You're still my hero tho'...


'cept when you smack the town where I live. ;)

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Not to pile on, but people would do right by learning a little civics (as would La politicians apparently learned a bit later than many would have liked...). As someone pointed out, since states have sovereign jurisdiction, they have to ask for the federal aid and the President has to certify a natural disaster. Without either one, FEMA can't do nothing...States rights still means a lot in our Republic and is still a check and balance to a centralized federal government.

[Veritas]

Natural disasters don't scale.

Comparisons are like a math equation. In order for a comparison to be valid between two scenarios, there must be a high degree of intersection between the factors in each scenario. There must also be a proportional relationship between the values associated with each factor.

Or at least that's my opinion, but I think it makes sense...I tend to see everything around me as something that could be mathematically defined given enough time.

[TUSooner]

Katrina was Bad no question.
I think what Homey is sayin(not sure) is that theres a differance between those affected , some want everything given to em and some want to be helped to the extent that they can get back to helping themselves .

Here In Leflore county we didnt have the Ice probs the last to years that hit a Large portion of our GREAT state .
But in 2000 we did .
My son and his Family and My Momma all crowded in my little shack, because No one had lectric or water . I on the other hand had a generator and Lots of food and water .
My son and I went to town every day cuttin trees out of the road and stopping By neighbors and clearing their Driveways so they could get out to if they needed to .
The ice kept bringing down trees after we went thru , about 4 days and all the trees that were going to fall had fallen . I was with out lectric fer 18 days
My sons was back on after just a few days so he took his family home and took My Momma with em .
What Im sayin is it was an effort to HELP neighbors , not go out and try to get some Heineken.
My Momma got a few bucks from Fema cause she was old and stuff.

Good on y'all. But people did that kind of neighborly thing in New Orleans after Katrina, too. Unfortunatley, nobody could see that in the shadow of the ugly $h!+.

[47straight]

It's simple. Kentucky didn't vote for the right presidential candidate.


Same reason why Oklahoma didn't get federal emergency status after the 1999 tornadoes.

[FaninAma]

I actually feel the way Gulfport Mississippi handled the Katrina aftermath v. New Orleans' actions is a more accurate comparison.

I think most of Homey's comparisons would be valid in that situation.

TU, to deny that the leaders of New Orleans and Louisianna were woefully short sighted and underprepared for Katrina is just making it more likely that the fiasco will happen again. And I think the attitude that the citizenry of NO should be given a pass on the Katrina aftermath is also bogus. I for one feel every person is responsibe for their actions in times of crisis.

You know, a reasonable person who lives in a bowl surrounded by water on 3 sides would probably have some contingency plan in place in case they got flooded. What happened in Kentucky was totally unanticipated. Big difference.

And your constant indignation at any criticism directed toward the leaders and citizens of NO regarding the Katrina episode is irritating.

[picasso]

No...no...it's easier to just blindly and irrationally hate.

who are you talking about here Jack? I've seen a ton of hate from the left side.

and you're sooo predictable. keep playing those worn out cards. heh.

I think all levels of government failed in the Katrina aftermath. Local gubment included.

[TUSooner]

I actually feel the way Gulfport Mississippi handled the Katrina aftermath v. New Orleans' actions is a more accurate comparison.

I think most of Homey's comparisons would be valid in that situation.

TU, to deny that the leaders of New Orleans and Louisianna were woefully short sighted and underprepared for Katrina is just making it more likely that the fiasco will happen again. And I think the attitude that the citizenry of NO should be given a pass on the Katrina aftermath is also bogus. I for one feel every person is responsibe for their actions in times of crisis.

You know, a reasonable person who lives in a bowl surrounded by water on 3 sides would probably have some contingency plan in place in case they got flooded. What happened in Kentucky was totally unanticipated. Big difference.

And your constant indignation at any criticism directed toward the leaders and citizens of NO regarding the Katrina episode is irritating.

Then prepare to be irritated.
I'm not gonna turn my back when the place I live is unfairly and ignorantly tarred with a broad brush. I'm sick of self-righteous preaching about how superior everybody in the "heartland" is in a disaster when nobody has faced anything close to a Katrina-sized disaster. Some folks believe that cartoon image because it fits their cartoon prejudices and their cartoon myth of rugged individualism (Everybody in OK is not Dean, y'know, and even Dean works for the gub'ment.) That cartoon mindset is not constructive criticism.

The real flaw is the silent & stubborn presumption that most or all New Orleanians were unprepared, helpless, and dependent. I'll repeat this: Ten of Thousand of families were as prepared as they could be but still lost everything and sucked it up as well as anybody anywhere could have done.

And by the way, I never excused anybody, especially the local gub'ment.
Not.
Even.
Close.
Read my posts again.

I think what everybody thinks but won't say, is that New Orleans is cursed by a big black underclass. Is that presumed? It may well be true! (New Orleans also has a big middle and upper class of black people as well.) But that doesn't excuse the trashing of thousands of black, white, and whatever other New Orleanians who have endured real catastrophe with all the virtue that anyone else in the country could have done.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

You know my memory must be getting bad, because when I left for Katrina I could have sworn it took me six hours to get to Baton Rouge. But that couldn't be cause us Loseranans sit around and wait for the gubmint to come get us.

And that must not have been me that threw all my worldly possessions out on the curb for the dump trucks to pick up because surely I would have just waited for the gubmint to come do it.

And after Gustav this year, I didn't help my father-in-law cut up trees in his neighbors' yards and haul them to the curb because stuff like that only happens other places.

[Turd_Ferguson]

You know my memory must be getting bad, because when I left for Katrina I could have sworn it took me six hours to get to Baton Rouge. But that couldn't be cause us Loseranans sit around and wait for the gubmint to come get us.

And that must not have been me that threw all my worldly possessions out on the curb for the dump trucks to pick up because surely I would have just waited for the gubmint to come do it.

And after Gustav this year, I didn't help my father-in-law cut up trees in his neighbors' yards and haul them to the curb because stuff like that only happens other places.did ya help yourself to a big flat screen from the walmalart?:pop:

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I think what everybody thinks but won't say, is that New Orleans is cursed by a big black underclass. Is that presumed? It may well be true! (New Orleans also has a big middle and upper class of black people as well.) But that doesn't excuse the trashing of thousands of black, white, and whatever other New Orleanians who have endured real catastrophe with all the virtue that anyone else in the country could have done.

TU - I think that is a solid statement. People don't remember much that many people went on, evacuated and made a new life after the fact. What people remember is the lack of self-sufficiency in a visible but rather small population percentage that got all the press...We here in Houston are dealing with the unfortunate aspects of that relocation of a large underclass that don't know how to live and live within a modicum of civility and legality. We have had many stories of former NOLAs who found work, bought homes and made Houston a new place and are supporting the economy. Unfortunately, that isn't news, news is suffering and blaming...

[OklahomaTuba]

I blame global warming.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

That would mean you blame Bush!! ;)

[Chuck Bao]

It is not surprising that Katrina is a touchstone of emotion. It was like 9-11, but different.

I remember watching the news on CNN and for the first time in my life thinking of my own country as a third world country. The failure on all levels was shocking.

Unfortunately, the banking crisis now has me thinking the same, but that is besides the point.

I agree with TU 100%: comparisons with Katrina are "spurious".

We can do jokes. We can do fun. Comparing hardships are pretty difficult.

[TUSooner]

TU - I think that is a solid statement. People don't remember much that many people went on, evacuated and made a new life after the fact. What people remember is the lack of self-sufficiency in a visible but rather small population percentage that got all the press...We here in Houston are dealing with the unfortunate aspects of that relocation of a large underclass that don't know how to live and live within a modicum of civility and legality. We have had many stories of former NOLAs who found work, bought homes and made Houston a new place and are supporting the economy. Unfortunately, that isn't news, news is suffering and blaming...

I think you pretty much nailed it. And I'm sorry for Houston; a good deed was severely punished.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Got it. Not allowed, under any circumstances, to kid/josh/joke/criticize or employ sarcasm re September 11th or the Oklahoma City bombing and the people who endured it and its aftermath*. I'll make a note of it.:O

*Except of course to pillory the former administration. That's still fine, and even encouraged.
Fixed just to give you a little perspective about just how wrong you are on this one.

[NormanPride]

From my view of the aftermath, what we saw was all of NO's dirty laundry aired for everyone to see, in the worst possible light. All the refuse popped up in other cities and started trouble. My mom had kids in her class from NO that were years behind her own, and they were much more violent and disruptive than even her memories of when she taught in terrible neighborhoods in Houston. Of course, how would you act if you were a 9 year old that just lost their home and all their stuff, and was forced to move 10 hours away into a weird rich neighborhood?

I never really had a high opinion of the city to start with, but I imagine any city with such a disastrous separation between the haves and the have-nots would suffer a similar fate. Especially in a city with such racial history. I remember the LA riots back a few years, and the poor rose up to take what they wanted in that situation as well. For a supposed progressive city like LA to succumb to something like that was shocking to me at a young age.

It's happened throughout history when the poor is put in a dangerous position and they've been stressed for a long time. The scary thing is, there's never any real warning. Baj talked to an old black guy a while back who remembered the Tulsa Race Riots. "It was weird. One day everyone was gettin' along fine. Then the next, they weren't."

[picasso]

From my view of the aftermath, what we saw was all of NO's dirty laundry aired for everyone to see, in the worst possible light. All the refuse popped up in other cities and started trouble. My mom had kids in her class from NO that were years behind her own, and they were much more violent and disruptive than even her memories of when she taught in terrible neighborhoods in Houston. Of course, how would you act if you were a 9 year old that just lost their home and all their stuff, and was forced to move 10 hours away into a weird rich neighborhood?

I never really had a high opinion of the city to start with, but I imagine any city with such a disastrous separation between the haves and the have-nots would suffer a similar fate. Especially in a city with such racial history. I remember the LA riots back a few years, and the poor rose up to take what they wanted in that situation as well. For a supposed progressive city like LA to succumb to something like that was shocking to me at a young age.

It's happened throughout history when the poor is put in a dangerous position and they've been stressed for a long time. The scary thing is, there's never any real warning. Baj talked to an old black guy a while back who remembered the Tulsa Race Riots. "It was weird. One day everyone was gettin' along fine. Then the next, they weren't."

so it could have been more of a class problem than a racial problem. I'm guessing the government just hates poor people.

[NormanPride]

I'm guessing the government just hates poor people.

Isn't this a given? ;)