Would it really matter?

[Chuck Bao]

This is like last week’s thread, but I don’t see it posted here.

Would it matter to you if a US government agency eavesdrops on your phone calls, emails and internet postings?

This is an honest and serious question because I don’t know what to think of this video interview. It probably isn't fully accurate, but what if 10% of it is.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/28781200#28781200

In my opinion, I’m on board if that is what is needed to thwart future terrorist attacks. My personal life is pretty boring and I have done nothing that I should feel ashamed about. But, there is still a nagging concern about rights, privacy with no attempts to blackmail people or sell commercial information.

Also, the possibility of the US spying on US citizens can’t be a good thing while other countries are getting more aggressive in closing off and squelching freedom of speech through the internet. And, why would some countries consider Youtude as a major internal threat? There has to be a reason and that reason is probably fear that the general poupulation may bet an different idea of the truth.

So, are you okay with spying on your emails/postings, or not?

[StoopTroup]

I'm not OK with it.

The location of our still is a private matter. :D

[Tailwind]

Don't like it. What so ever. Got nothing to hide besides the fact that my life is excruciatingly boring. No need for the gumment to know that.

[Oldnslo]

Don't like it. What so ever. Got nothing to hide besides the fact that my life is excruciatingly boring. No need for the gumment to know that.

Ditto.

Last week on What's Your Problem, I got a call from a guy who didn't want to say any financial stuff on his census form. I pointed out to him that the IRS, another part of the Federal Government, already knew his financial stuff, so telling the census bureau probably wasnt the End of Things, but d00d was unconvinced.

He's choosing to fail to respond to the census.

Privacy is to be cherished. Just cause I ain't doing anything subversive doesn't mean that I want some computer checking on me. Besides, what if someday porn is considered subversive?

[C&CDean]

If they gotta look at my cyber/phone life to keep Achmed from massacrating a bunch of Americans then I'm cool with it.

[King Crimson]

i think it's BS.

[TUSooner]

If they gotta look at my cyber/phone life to keep Achmed from massacrating a bunch of Americans then I'm cool with it.

Who are they, and how will they decide what's necessary?

1776 did not happen just so some new tyrant way worse that George III could stick his nose in my business.

[King Crimson]

Who are they, and how will they decide what's necessary?

1776 did not happen just so some new tyrant way worse that George III could stick his nose in my business.

yup. it's one thing to declare liberty and then draft the Alien and Sedition Act...right around the corner.

[Vaevictis]

In my opinion, it should not be legal for the government to spy on people without due process.

However, this is not to say that I expect that the government will not do so. This sort of thing is why we have the CIA/NSA, etc. I just think it should be illegal -- the consequences of which are that (1) such information can never be used in a court of law, and (2) people who get caught doing it get a kick in the balls from the courts.

[C&CDean]

Who are they, and how will they decide what's necessary?

1776 did not happen just so some new tyrant way worse that George III could stick his nose in my business.

I don't care who "they" are. And I'm reasonably confident nobody is going around randomly tapping my phone or computer. Now if I hung out down at the local mosque and handed out Hate the U.S.A. literature then I'd feel a little differently about it.

You can bet your last dollar profiling is the name of this game. They don't have the resources to tap John Q. Smith's phone. Habba Babba Obama? Pretty much.

[Vaevictis]

They don't have the resources to tap John Q. Smith's phone.

As far as you know, and yet.

The technology is such that (1) they will have the ability to tap everyone's phone in the States at some point in the near future, and (2) more than likely, they'll have the computing horsepower and high enough quality algorithms to actually make sense of it, too.

[C&CDean]

As far as you know, and yet.

The technology is such that (1) they will have the ability to tap everyone's phone in the States at some point in the near future, and (2) more than likely, they'll have the computing horsepower and high enough quality algorithms to actually make sense of it, too.

Yeah, yeah, and then what....??? MEH.

If they want to bust me for selling 30 roundbales on the phone or buying a welder via ebay they can rock on with their bad selves. I quit drugs, I don't belong to any terrorist cells, and I don't engage in illegal activities. Simply put, I ain't scared.

[OklahomaTuba]

Its a tight rope, but I am ok with it while we are at war.

Seems Obama was too, since he voted for it.

[Vaevictis]

Yeah, yeah, and then what....??? MEH.

If they want to bust me for selling 30 roundbales on the phone or buying a welder via ebay they can rock on with their bad selves. I quit drugs, I don't belong to any terrorist cells, and I don't engage in illegal activities. Simply put, I ain't scared.

Fair enough. I was just pointing out that the argument that "they don't have the resources to listen in on the average Joe" is, in all likelihood, about to be obsoleted.

[Vaevictis]

Its a tight rope, but I am ok with it while we are at war.

Seems Obama was too, since he voted for it.

I would be fine with it too... if we had an actual declaration of war.

The main issue I have is the precedent it sets to do it absent such a declaration.

[King Crimson]

Yeah, yeah, and then what....??? MEH.

If they want to bust me for selling 30 roundbales on the phone or buying a welder via ebay they can rock on with their bad selves. I quit drugs, I don't belong to any terrorist cells, and I don't engage in illegal activities. Simply put, I ain't scared.

so, as far as you are concerned...civil liberties only pertain to you (and people like you)? and the civil liberties you prefer?

and, when it's a second amendment issue it's different?

and your assessment of the "the technology" of surveillance is pretty funny. i know a guy who graduated from the same PhD program as me who works at the Pentagon and ha ha ha ha.

[C&CDean]

so, as far as you are concerned...civil liberties only pertain to you (and people like you)? and the civil liberties you prefer?

and, when it's a second amendment issue it's different?

and your assessment of the "the technology" of surveillance is pretty funny. i know a guy who graduated from the same PhD program as me who works at the Pentagon and ha ha ha ha.

Yeah, I'm just a dumbass Okie who believes in following the rules.

Of course back in the day, when I was trafficking (and using) all kinds of illicit mind-altering substances and dealing in stolen property and whatnot I'd probably be all upset about this whole deal. Like you are.

Second amendment? They can look at my guns and listen to them all they want. **** poor analogy.

I just don't have any angst over this. If they have the technology to know exactly when I flex my sphincter or rub one out in the shower, I really couldn't give a ****. Really.

[Vaevictis]

The reason you get asked about the second amendment is because sooner or later, someone's going to look at the terrorist problem and maybe what happened in India recently (or something like it) and say, "Hey, you know, to stop the terrorists, we really ought to take everyone's guns away."

[proud gonzo]

i don't have anything to hide but I'm 100% absolutely against being spied on. The government can find some other ****ing way to do its job.

[King Crimson]

Yeah, I'm just a dumbass Okie who believes in following the rules.

Of course back in the day, when I was trafficking (and using) all kinds of illicit mind-altering substances and dealing in stolen property and whatnot I'd probably be all upset about this whole deal. Like you are.

Second amendment? They can look at my guns and listen to them all they want. **** poor analogy.

I just don't have any angst over this. If they have the technology to know exactly when I flex my sphincter or rub one out in the shower, I really couldn't give a ****. Really.

that's a BS analogy. Trafficking illegal stuff=my concern about Bill of Rights? that's laughable.

(in your way back machine analogy).

when you used to listen to Velvet Underground, do drugs, and eat "real mexican food"...and blah blah blah.

the Bill of Rights is "the Rules".

[C&CDean]

The reason you get asked about the second amendment is because sooner or later, someone's going to look at the terrorist problem and maybe what happened in India recently (or something like it) and say, "Hey, you know, to stop the terrorists, we really ought to take everyone's guns away."

They've been saying this for years anyhow. Come get em'.

[C&CDean]

that's a BS analogy. Trafficking illegal stuff=my concern about Bill of Rights? that's laughable.

(in your way back machine analogy).

when you used to listen to Velvet Underground, do drugs, and eat "real mexican food"...and blah blah blah.

the Bill of Rights is "the Rules".

The BofR is the rules. Agreed. However, sometimes, based on need and necessity, you gotta **** with the rules. Citizens in this country have always been subject to phone tapping, etc. when it was warranted. No, it wasn't legal, but it was/is done.

The only difference is that now they're telling us they can do it, and they're telling us why they may do it. I'm good with that, cause like I said, I ain't a terrorist. Of course I reserve the right to reverse my position if they start using this tool for anything other than terrorism prevention.

And speaking of "real mexican food", I was in Tucson this past weekend for my pop's 81st birthday. I had a lengua burro and a machaca and egg burro on soft flour tortillas Saturday - and they were not smothered in that green chile **** like you eat up there. Blah blah blah...

[King Crimson]

i don't care about India (in this thread). the reason i asked about the 2nd Amendment is the unreal hypocrisy that exists about how the 2nd Amendment is an avatar of "libertarians" and any curtail of ownership is "proof" of Big Brother when my right to privacy and free speech means nothing to the same people.

if i check the Qu'ran out of the library somehow that makes me more dangerous, more suspicious than owning an assault rifle?

[Vaevictis]

Of course I reserve the right to reverse my position if they start using this tool for anything other than terrorism prevention.

The point is that they will. Inevitably.

[C&CDean]

if i check the Qu'ran out of the library somehow that makes me more dangerous, more suspicious than owning an assault rifle?

In a word? Hells yes.

[King Crimson]

And speaking of "real mexican food", I was in Tucson this past weekend for my pop's 81st birthday. I had a lengua burro and a machaca and egg burro on soft flour tortillas Saturday - and they were not smothered in that green chile **** like you eat up there. Blah blah blah...

if you are ever "up here" i take you to a good place or two. flour tortillas.....heh. gringo.

[C&CDean]

Just knowing how to spell "the koran" makes me suspicious of you.

[King Crimson]

Just knowing how to spell "the koran" makes me suspicious of you.

i did that to sc'are you, it's pretty easy.

[C&CDean]

if you are ever "up here" i take you to a good place or two. flour tortillas.....heh. gringo.

Dude, I ain't in Boulder. We don't have ample supplies of wheat-grass, hummus, and umbilical cords from aborted fetuses to make tortillas out of. All the messicans I know make them outta flour or corn. And burros are not made with corn. gavacho...

[King Crimson]

Dude, I ain't in Boulder. We don't have ample supplies of wheat-grass, hummus, and umbilical cords from aborted fetuses to make tortillas out of. All the messicans I know make them outta flour or corn. And burros are not made with corn. gavacho...

fair enough, i was not specific. Boulder is the worst burger/fries/mexican town in America....

NW Denver, some of the farming communities up north like Brighton....we good to go. that's what i meant.

[Chuck Bao]

I really don't care about personal correspondence and silly posts on message boards.

I worry about two things: commercial information and the fact that some countries are like serious about clamping down on freedom of speech on the interweb.

My internet correspondence probably doesn't amount to two of the Dean's round bales, but I get the next day's stock reports for my approval and my company is the largest broker in Thailand and the reports do move share prices.

It is probably super silly to think like my emails would be of interest to anyone, but what is the commercial potential of spying on someone that actually does more thn two round bales?

It is also probably super silly to warn everyone in my office to be careful of emails, especially with the office addy and it could be forwarded to who knows whom and with what intent and the current degree of paranoia.

I'm curious if encrypted emails or internal emails actually work. Anyone have an idea?

[Vaevictis]

I'm curious if encrypted emails or internal emails actually work. Anyone have an idea?

Under the correct circumstances, encrypted emails do work.

The problem is that most people aren't sufficiently tech savvy to arrange for and maintain the correct procedures for it to work in the long term.

[Sooner_Havok]

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

They can take my privacy the day they pry the guns from Dean's cold dead hands.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h152/havok0283/From_My_Cold_Dead_Hands.jpg