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OUSKINS
1/10/2009, 04:26 PM
A quick review for those who didn't see the game:

--Sellout crowd in Manhattan...very rowdy early, and as you might expect, KSU came out with energy and got off to a good start. OU had lost 9 straight road games against North teams, so I figured it would be tough.

--KSU shot the ball very well and got off to a 26-19 lead. Every single one of those 19 points was scored by the Griffin brothers. The rest of the team was absent early.

--Blake dominated all night; we ended the half on a 10-0 run and after a slow start early in the second, we dominated the game. Defense was very good, very aggressive. We had a 16 point lead at one point--KSU made the score more respectable late, but it was meaningless. Final: OU won 61-53.

Analysis:

--Frank Martin is an idiot. Besides his ridiculous scowls, sideline antics, and haircut, his strategy to "make the other guys beat you" was moronic. KSU gave Blake whatever he wanted, and he took it all afternoon. Blake was active on both ends and very tenacious around the basket--he destroyed their single coverage and made smart passes the few times they brought the double team.

--Warren continues to impress. Quiet game on the stat sheet, but he has great timing--made his points count and always seemed to create a basket or force a turnover when KSU was making a run.

--Good game for Taylor...that's more like it. Played within himself (don't you love that cliche'?) and played off of his brother extremely well. He didn't jack up any wild shots or take stupid risks on defense. Very solid effort from Taylor.

--Kinda weird, we didn't see the "great" Tony Crocker or the "awful" Tony Crocker today. Instead, we saw the "in between" Crocker--which doesn't happen often. He wasn't shooting well, but this time, that didn't force him into a shell, He was a big part of our good defensive effort and he was active on offense and on the glass.

--Austin Johsnon was so-so. Made some bad decisions early and he was part of the reason we fell behind. But he did create offense in the second half and set Blake up for some easy points. I still think we need a little more out of AJ though.

--Cade is in a total funk right now. Looks lost out there. Once again Capel showed NO faith in the bench--playing only Davis, Leary, and Wright--and the latter two didn't get many minutes at all. Capel is not rewarding guys like Allen or Willis for their quality play against lesser teams. I'd especially like to see Willis get a few of Davis's minutes.

--Very nice win today. Very pleased. As mentioned, winning on the road in conference is never easy--KSU is an OK team--decent guard play and a bunch of big men--problem is that none of those big men are any good. They look like an NIT team to me, Since the Arkansas loss, OU has looked more focused and energized.

Now, on to the Texas game. Obviously, this will be a big test for what is clearly the two best teams in the Big 12 this year. Mizzou is worth watching, but they lost on the road to Nebraska. Baylor will also be very tough and A+M and OSU are both wild cards. KU is rebuilding, but dangerous. The rest of the conference is either average or worse. Colorado is a joke.

Looking forward to the game. My goal is for OU to go 13-3 in the Big 12 this year--that should put them in a solid position for a #1 seed. I think it might be tough to go 13-3 if we lose on Monday. I'd certainly rather not have to win in Austin just to earn a split with Texas. The Longhorns have dominated us lately, so it would be nice to start paying them back a bit. I'll be there...ready to roll on Monday!

8timechamps
1/10/2009, 04:50 PM
Was blake playing against single coverage all day? I didn't get to see the game, but read the ESPN recap, and that's what it said.

If that's the case, we may have seen that for the last time. From the box score it looks like we held their "big" men to 15 points. Seeing that, and knowing how close KSU fought back, It would appear that we suffered some let down in our paremeter defense.

If that's a correct account, it would appear that Martin's plan was to give Blake the points below and try to win from the edge. Maybe I'm wrong. Either way, it didn't work.

Monday is huge. If we can take care of business, it makes the return trip to Austin next month a BIG date on the schedule.

Thanks for the recap!

OUSKINS
1/10/2009, 06:25 PM
Single coverage most of the day with some occasional token double teams. It really didn't work at all...we dominated from late in the second half on...final score made it look closer than it was.

badger
1/10/2009, 07:36 PM
I was impressed with both Warren and AJ as a team on D. They switched well and worked together effectively and I like to see that in guards. WW has really meshed with this team early, and that's something I didn't think I would see until later in the season. Good on Capel for coaching him up, and good on the other guards to be their Senior selves and work with him.

Sooner04
1/10/2009, 09:08 PM
I thought Martin's strategy early was sound. It was the same strategy other coaches have used to success; let the star get his, no matter how many that might be, and don't let anyone else beat you. I remember Kelvin doing that with Maurice Baker at O-State when they came to Norman. He had 30+, but we won by 12 and were never really threatened.

When he abandoned that strategy, we started moving it around a bit and hitting some shots. It may not have been the best move in the world, but they looked a lot better against our guards prior to the single-coverage being removed from Blake.

Ace
1/11/2009, 11:15 AM
Looks like it will be a long year for KSU...and their ..uh, coach?

OUSKINS
1/11/2009, 11:42 AM
I thought Martin's strategy early was sound. It was the same strategy other coaches have used to success; let the star get his, no matter how many that might be, and don't let anyone else beat you. I remember Kelvin doing that with Maurice Baker at O-State when they came to Norman. He had 30+, but we won by 12 and were never really threatened.

When he abandoned that strategy, we started moving it around a bit and hitting some shots. It may not have been the best move in the world, but they looked a lot better against our guards prior to the single-coverage being removed from Blake.

I disagree about the strategy. The teams that have some success against us this year have done so by limiting Blake early in the game. Our perimiter game is very inconsistent-- I think any opposing coach would be wise to force those guys to beat them first--- if that fails, then maybe you need to switch it up, but allowing Blake to go one on one for easy layups is just dumb.

Our guards were ice cold to start the KSU game and if Martin had focused more on Blake, perhaps KSU could have extended their lead beyond what it was.

EVERY team we play should either have a hard double on Blake or run sagging zones to frustrate him and encourage our guys to shoot from the outside.

Boomer.....
1/11/2009, 12:00 PM
Blake played like a man possessed, again. Crocker played great on the boards but I think he missed about 3 dunks. I know he got fouled on the way but BG would have flushed it down with no problem.

birddog
1/12/2009, 10:19 AM
willie warren in crimson is the coolest thing i've seen in years. we finally have the cocky guy (that backs it up) that everyone in the conference hates.

skycat
1/12/2009, 12:53 PM
K-State's defense was excellent. Seriously. By far ou's worst offensive game of the year. Sorted by offensive efficiency. (http://kenpom.com/expsked.php?&c=OE&team=Oklahoma) There really is no argument here. The problem for the Wildcats is that they also had their worst offensive performance of the year.

Turnovers were huge problems for K-State. The Cats finished with 20 (15 in the first half!) in a 66 possession game. A big part of that was the switch to the 1-3-1 in the last 5 or so minutes of the 1st half. If you want to bag on Martin (which isn't warranted based on his performance thus far), this is where you do it as K-State's guards looked lost against the zone. The zone also slowed the pace of the game, which worked to OU's advantage, as the Sooners are obviously the superior half-court team. K-State desperately needed a higher paced game than that to have much of a chance to win.

Add a below par shooting night (K-State isn't nearly as bad at shooting as they showed) and K-State was screwed against a talented team.

fwsooner22
1/12/2009, 02:22 PM
K-State's defense was excellent. Seriously. By far ou's worst offensive game of the year. Sorted by offensive efficiency. (http://kenpom.com/expsked.php?&c=OE&team=Oklahoma) There really is no argument here. The problem for the Wildcats is that they also had their worst offensive performance of the year.

Turnovers were huge problems for K-State. The Cats finished with 20 (15 in the first half!) in a 66 possession game. A big part of that was the switch to the 1-3-1 in the last 5 or so minutes of the 1st half. If you want to bag on Martin (which isn't warranted based on his performance thus far), this is where you do it as K-State's guards looked lost against the zone. The zone also slowed the pace of the game, which worked to OU's advantage, as the Sooners are obviously the superior half-court team. K-State desperately needed a higher paced game than that to have much of a chance to win.

Add a below par shooting night (K-State isn't nearly as bad at shooting as they showed) and K-State was screwed against a talented team.


No offense but that was a pick 'em game. A game that KSU will regret not playing better in later in the season. The best player in the conference was played man to man most of the game. You used at least 12 fouls (i quit counting) on him alone. That is poor coaching. Your coach needs to quit the intimidation routine with Big 12 refs (ask Kelvin) it doesn't work.

We are better than KSU, no doubt, but that was a sad home court performance by the once mighty Cats. Where are Rolando Blackmon and Jack Hartman when ya need em. Better luck next time.

skycat
1/12/2009, 02:49 PM
41% from the field, just 3-9 from three, with 16 turnovers and just 10 made FT in a low possession game. Rebound margin about even. Yeah one guy had a great game. So what? That's not a good offensive night. As noted in the link I posted above, OU's efficiency stats (points per possession) were lousy.

The problem from my point of view: K-State's offensive stats were even worse. Some credit to OU (especially for breaking out the 1-3-1 for the first time all year and executing well in it), but some just bad play by the Wildcats on the offensive end. Anyone who thinks that K-State lost (or OU won) this game based on K-State's defensive performance is wrong.

This will be a down year for K-State. But a down year now means 7-9 or 8-8ish on the season. That's a big step up from just a few years ago.

fwsooner22
1/12/2009, 02:54 PM
41% from the field, just 3-9 from three, with 16 turnovers and just 10 made FT in a low possession game. Rebound margin about even. Yeah one guy had a great game. So what? That's not a good offensive night. As noted in the link I posted above, OU's efficiency stats (points per possession) were lousy.

The problem from my point of view: K-State's offensive stats were even worse. Some credit to OU (especially for breaking out the 1-3-1 for the first time all year and executing well in it), but some just bad play by the Wildcats. Anyone who thinks that K-State lost (or OU won) this game based on K-State's defensive performance is wrong.

This will be a down year for K-State. But a down year now means 7-9 or 8-8ish on the season. That's a big step up from just a few years ago.


Repeating yourself doesn't make you right it just gives your opinion a second time.

OU has a pretty good defensive game. Your team didn't stink they got handled at home. They lost the game in the last 3 minutes of the first half and the first 3 minutes of the second half. That my friend is coaching. We have one and I am so dang happy about that. :D

skycat
1/12/2009, 03:14 PM
Repeating yourself doesn't make you right it just gives your opinion a second time.

OU has a pretty good defensive game. Your team didn't stink they got handled at home. They lost the game in the last 3 minutes of the first half and the first 3 minutes of the second half. That my friend is coaching. We have one and I am so dang happy about that. :D

Meh. The single biggest shift in the game occurred in the last 5 minutes of the first half. But the first 3 minutes of the second half K-State was actually +3.

What did OU do differently at the end of the first half? Was that when Griffin really started pouring it on? Or maybe was the fact that K-State had 26 points in the first 15 minutes only to get 10 in the next 15 (and 27 total for the remainder of the game) more important to the outcome?

But whatever. The loss was hardly surprising. Just don't be surprised if there are other teams that defend the Sooners in a similar manner, but are able to make it work by not stinking it up on the offensive end of the floor.

King Crimson
1/12/2009, 04:44 PM
skycat: you've posted that OU's low score was a result of KSU's "great" D and KSU's low scoring was a result of "playing bad" with "some" credit to the 1-3-1.

that's an assessment that's going to draw criticism and a bit homerish/one sided, to be honest.

OU dominated the second half (minus the first and last 2 minutes). game over.

skycat
1/12/2009, 05:01 PM
I don't know, I called the loss expected after all. And gave the same "some" modifier to both the defense switch (which as I mentioned had the secondary effect of slowing the pace of the game) and poor offensive play from K-State. The point remains that OU didn't score at a high rate in either half. But if you want to assign more credit to OU's second half man defense, I'm not going to quibble.

But really the only reason I posted at all was to disagree with the notion not doubling down doomed the Cats. By any objective measure, it clearly didn't.

cheezyq
1/12/2009, 05:09 PM
Meh. The single biggest shift in the game occurred in the last 5 minutes of the first half. But the first 3 minutes of the second half K-State was actually +3.

What did OU do differently at the end of the first half? Was that when Griffin really started pouring it on? Or maybe was the fact that K-State had 26 points in the first 15 minutes only to get 10 in the next 15 (and 27 total for the remainder of the game) more important to the outcome?

But whatever. The loss was hardly surprising. Just don't be surprised if there are other teams that defend the Sooners in a similar manner, but are able to make it work by not stinking it up on the offensive end of the floor.

I can't imagine that defending Blake straight up is a good idea. Why have teams always used the double-team against good post players? Do you really think it's because every coach, throughout the decades of organized basketball, was completely clueless. Do you really think that all of a sudden Frank Martin is this genius that came along and said, "Hey! Let's let Blake Griffin beat us, and MAYBE he will trip all over himself and OU will fail!" Do you really think that other teams will look at this game as a blueprint for defeating OU?

That's just silly. If any team decides to single Blake, they're signing their own death certificate. Everyone knows that the easiest points are acquired in the paint. Teams that have been effective against good post players will double early to get the ball out of that player's hands, and try to recover when the player passes. They will double with different players, and usually quick players with long arms. Other teams use zone defense, which ends up in a form of double-team. That's how you slow down Blake, and that's how you set yourself up to win.

KSU lost because they didn't force OU to play a perimeter game. They allowed OU to rebound and score inside. Sure, they put pressure on the guards, but if you fail to force turnovers consistently, that strategy is pointless. Of offense, KSU has no one to establish ground in the post and no one to create off penetration.

skycat
1/12/2009, 05:23 PM
Look, the numbers are the numbers. OU's offensive numbers were poor. They really were. K-State's were worse. Credit OU's defense for forcing 15 turnovers in the first half and causing K-State to shoot abysmally in the second half. The game was won/lost at K-State's end.

But this was hardly the first time that a coach has decided to let one guy get his and prevent the rest of the team from beating him. Last year I personally saw Beasley get 40+, Walker get 30+ and the rest of the team get <10 combined in a loss in Waco.

OUSKINS
1/12/2009, 05:31 PM
Look, the numbers are the numbers. OU's offensive numbers were poor. They really were. K-State's were worse. Credit OU's defense for forcing 15 turnovers in the first half and causing K-State to shoot abysmally in the second half. The game was won/lost at K-State's end.

But this was hardly the first time that a coach has decided to let one guy get his and prevent the rest of the team from beating him. Last year I personally saw Beasley get 40+, Walker get 30+ and the rest of the team get <10 combined in a loss in Waco.

OU's numbers were poor, therefore Martin's strategy on Blake worked?

Not so fast.

That assumes that had the Cats doubled Blake that our guards would have made them pay......which is a shaky assumption at best.

The "pinnacle" of the game for KSU was when they led 26-19. Blake was keeping us in the game at that point by getting easy shots. If KSU had doubled him and forced the ball out of his hands, there is a GOOD chance our guards DON'T respond and that lead is 26-12 or something like that.

skycat
1/12/2009, 05:39 PM
OU's numbers were poor, therefore Martin's strategy on Blake worked?


If by worked you mean, "Forced OU into their worst offensive performance to date by a wide margin", then yes, the defensive strategy worked.

cheezyq
1/12/2009, 05:46 PM
Look, the numbers are the numbers. OU's offensive numbers were poor. They really were. K-State's were worse. Credit OU's defense for forcing 15 turnovers in the first half and causing K-State to shoot abysmally in the second half.

But this was hardly the first time that a coach has decided to let one guy get his and prevent the rest of the team from beating him. Last year I personally saw Beasley get 40+, Walker get 30+ and the rest of the team get <10 combined in a loss in Waco.

King Crimson called it out. Either your offense played poorly, or OU caused you to play poorly. It works both ways, either OU played poorly, or KSU caused OU to play poorly. The bottom line is that OU won despite multiple mistakes on offense (throwing the ball away, missing free throws, failing to take open shots, missing layups, etc.).

KSU defended OU's guards well, true. But allowing a dominant big man to dunk and layup all over your defense doesn't qualify as ingenious coaching. Particularly when on the offensive side KSU had the players and the intensity and the momentum in the first half. Then, Capel made a few adjustments (particularly the 1-3-1), and Martin did nothing to counter the entire game. Martin was simply out-coached, quite badly at that.

cheezyq
1/12/2009, 05:48 PM
If by worked you mean, "Forced OU into their worst offensive performance to date by a wide margin", then yes, the defensive strategy worked.

A strategy "works" when you win...not when you lose.

skycat
1/12/2009, 05:54 PM
It's always shocking when the team with the best players wins the game.

OUSKINS
1/12/2009, 05:59 PM
If by worked you mean, "Forced OU into their worst offensive performance to date by a wide margin", then yes, the defensive strategy worked.

Again, you are making an assumption. While OU had a poor offensive performance on Saturday, I actually think it could have been MUCH worse had Martin focused the defense on Blake.

As an OU fan, I understand that we have one MAJOR glaring weakness....our perimiter is just as likely to be awful on a given night as it is to be decent. Any coach that doesn't at least make us show "what kind of night it's going to be" is making a mistake, IMO.

cheezyq
1/12/2009, 06:06 PM
It's always shocking when the team with the best players wins the game.

Look, OU shot 41%. That's not bad defense, but not GREAT defense either. OU shot a year low of 9 3-pointers, only making 3. OU committed 16 turnovers. OU also made only 48% of free throws.

All we're trying to say is that your assumption that the OLE defense on Blake is what did the trick on OU's offense is just plain silly. Frank Martin isn't going to be the next Roy Williams or Bill Self, especially if he continues to coach the way he did on Saturday. I seriously doubt we see any decent coaches using that defense as a means for competing with OU.

skycat
1/12/2009, 06:14 PM
Again, you are making an assumption. While OU had a poor offensive performance on Saturday, I actually think it could have been MUCH worse had Martin focused the defense on Blake.

As an OU fan, I understand that we have one MAJOR glaring weakness....our perimiter is just as likely to be awful on a given night as it is to be decent. Any coach that doesn't at least make us show "what kind of night it's going to be" is making a mistake, IMO.

K-State's bigs range from experienced and unathletic, to athletic but undersized/inexperienced. Taylor Griffin is far better than any of the guys we run out there (look for the freshman Samuels to be pretty good in a year or two though). BG was going to have a big night regardless. Also note that he has a very healthy assist rate.

So why not try and keep Warren, who is easily one of the most skilled/talented guards in the country, out of the game?

skycat
1/12/2009, 06:18 PM
Look, OU shot 41%. That's not bad defense, but not GREAT defense either. OU shot a year low of 9 3-pointers, only making 3. OU committed 16 turnovers. OU also made only 48% of free throws.


How about, "The best defense OU has faced to this point in time." Because it is. By a lot. Just look at the link posted earlier.

That's not to say UT won't do better tonight. But on the other hand, Kent/Colon/Anderson aren't exactly Pittman/James/Johnson.