Fire? New blood? Changes? Switches? Options? What needs to happen in the future?

[MR2-Sooner86]

I'm writing this just to give everybody a chance to give their two cents on matters, my own opinions and theories, and people to share what they think might be a problem. Again, take this however you want. I don't consider myself a football genius or anything. It's just an opinion, if you disagree, feel free to comment and give your opinion. I'd love to hear your guy's feedback.


So what happened? We won it all in 2000 and had early success as a program and then it appears we have blown our load. Is it Stoops? Is it the coaching changes? Players? The plays? What is different that has affected this program the past five years from our early success?



(1) Is it the coaches?

Now I, and I hope most, love Stoops and never want him to leave. Has he lost an edge? Does he still have it but his assistants around him aren't what he had to begin with and can't pull their own weight?

Folks, Mike Stoops isn't coming back, so all the talk that he should come back should be dropped.

If Mike Stoops had fire and was a defensive man, why wasn't he replaced? I know Venerables is still here. He and Mike worked together while Mike was here, why hasn't Bob Stoops gone out and looked for a defensive guy?

Our OC has taken hits over the years but we seem to reload and keep firing. Hell we average a new OC every two years people and, I believe, our offenses have only gotten over the years.

As for play calling, bad game prep, and other things we blame assistants or even Stoops on, why no change or lack of? Are they really working hard trying to find out what's wrong or do some of our coaches have too much pride to swallow or their egos won't allow it? The past few bowl games we've blamed defensive prep and last night it seems the offense prep wasn't there. Why?



(2) Our defense doesn't seem to be there anymore?

Don't get me wrong we played well last night. We played well against Texas Tech in Norman this year. We played well against Missouri last year in the Big 12 Championship. However we still seem to not be at "that level" yet on defense.

I know this has been a big debate on here for a long time. Our offenses our out dropping points on people like no other but our defenses seem to be far behind at times.

Torrence Marshal
Rocky Calmus
Roy Williams
Teddy Leihman
Tommie Harris
Dusty Devorichek

All I can say is these were scary guys. Now I believe our defenses now have guys a little like this, or we got one and the rest kind of follow. We use to have a defense full of these guys.

Am I wrong and I'm just not seeing it or do we not have the defensive monsters we use to have? Or did we just get lucky and get a group of guys on defense that now have us spoiled in defense expectations?



(3) Are we going after the wrong players?

To go with the defense comments, do we go after wrong guys? Wasn't the early classes of Stoops the guys many people looked over and not highly rated? A lot of people talk of USC getting all the 5 star guys and them being spoiled and not working hard. Have we fallen into that trap as well? Do we go after talent and not potential? Yes? No? Maybe?



(4) Has success set in and we expect too much?

This goes back to point three about players. Has our own success made us think that "it'll happen" for us? In the beginning nothing came free and had to be earned. Now that Stoops is a top coach with top players at a top program, is too much expected and guaranteed?

I know, we expect to compete for the Big 12 title and National Championship every year but it can't happen. We expect to be ranked in the top 10. All of this usually happens but is it guaranteed?

Seriously, be honest with yourselves, how many people on here "expected" to kill KSU in 2003? How many "expected" White to pass all over LSU? How many "expected" that USC was overrated and we'd hang with them? How many "expected" 2005 to be a year we reload and go at it again? How many "expected" to kill that 'overrated' Boise State team? How many "expected" to kill West Virginia? How many "expected" that our offense was good enough to run and pass all over Florida because their defense hadn't seen anything like us and that "we'll hold them under 16 points" was a joke and we'd have the last laugh?

I'll be honest, I "expected" every single one of those things. I had the mindset that these things were guaranteed and there's no way we could lose. I was wrong. I'm willing to bet many fans think this as well.

I know, you can't win them all, and you shouldn't expect a win every single time. Hopefully you get what I'm trying to say here though.

So is it possible this mindset could have gotten to the coaches? Maybe even Stoops?


Anyway, that's about all I have to say about things for now. Would love to hear from you guys and your opinions.

[TUSooner]

Deleting threads like this would be a good start.
;)

[WestAustinSooner]

In general, its our bowl prep.

Specifically, I'm not sure what it is. Some other posters may be on to something though. Considering our low offensive output in all of our BCS games, the 5 week period may have allowed the opposing defenses to prepare to stop our offense.

We need to add some wrinkles to the offense during this period to be less predictable. We also need to be able to run the ball when needed.

[Don't brake for Longhorns]

Thanks Bob Stoops for getting us to this game. Last night and today have been tough. Did you see Bob's eyes , I believe he really took this one hard. He'll get us back there again and may be next time will win. I thought the team played great just 2 yards form a win.

[batonrougesooner]

Compared to the last couple of BCS losses, our defensive game plan last night was correct. The defense did what it needed to do to get the win. Unfortunately the offense failed to carry the load last night.

OU lost to the better team last night. It happens.

It sucks to be in this position but then again the large majority of teams would love to be in this position.

[gotpoi73]

the teams last night were pretty evenly matched. lack of execution on a handful of plays was really the difference

[TheHumanAlphabet]

IMO

Its the coaches.

Wilson needs to go. He chokes on all big games. if he would have kept the up tempo - we win. HE sucks he needs to leave.

Stoops - Big Lame Bob needs to know that 0-5 is unacceptable. Deny an extension, fine him his BCS pay, something. HE just doesn't get it. You don't make a record he has during the regular season and churn out the performance he does in bowls without consequences. Not saying he needs to go, but he needs to recheck priorities or look to a lesser type program to meet family and work obligations. Nothing wrong with that if that is your decision.

Venables did his job last night. Good jorb!

[OuSX]

Exactly as stated above. There wasn't that 1 defining moment of the game. Just a yard here, a yard there, a block or missed block... The biggest play of the game in my opinion was on our second drive (maybe our first) when we had moved the ball effectively for 2 or 3 first downs. Then, instead of going with what works, we roll Bradford out of the pocket right into an oncoming gator that would never have taken the edge and we lost 15 yards. Poof...2 and 25. Effectively end of drive... And there was the not being able to stop them on 3rd down thingy but eh...

[sooner2b09]

To the recruiting part of it, this year we have only one 5 star and he sounds like a hard worker and a solid kid, most of our recruits are the ones looked over because they were 3 and 4 stars so hopefully they have a chip on their shoulder and work hard here. I like this recruiting class a lot.

[bluesmagoo]

Wilson's wacky game calling was terrible. He needs to go.

[madillsoonerfan5353]

IMO

Wilson needs to go. He chokes on all big games. if he would have kept the up tempo - we win. HE sucks he needs to leave.

Right on about the tempo, It looked to me that the O took a step back in time last night. Looked like the O last year???

Venables did his job last night. Good jorb!

Did a great job last night, I have to say!!! I have been bashing him all year!! The last few games( except the oswho game) he's done a good job!!!!

[wishbonesooner]

If you participate in anything along the lines of this thread, you'll be labeled a bad fan. If it was once or twice, heck even the dumbest football fan could expect that. But 5 in a row? I don't have the knowledge to know. Common sense tells you that if you do the same things over and over, you're foolish to expect something different.
We'll all survive this. But one of these days, we'll stop getting the benefit of the doubt. We won't get the BCS game slot over the USC's and Texas' anymore. Why send Oklahoma to the championship game, they can't win it? This will seperate the casual fans from the die hards for sure.

[bent rider]

Learn from success. #1 Florida and #2 Utah both run the spread option. Sooners learned how hard that can be to defend -- sometimes it takes a little different personnel, though OU certainly gets the cream of the crop athlete. Maybe emphasize quickness a bit more than size in training/development. Small adjustments, because just to get to a BCS bowl game they are doing a hell of lot RIGHT!

One other thing, Urban Meyer is passionate about special teams. All season Okla had special teams gaffes. It hurt the Sooners in the Texas game, and Fla blocked a kick, even though the kick coverage problem was apparently solved. Maybe increase time and effort devoted to special teams.

[OUHOMER]

I think this one falls at the feet of Wilson and ultimately Bob. When we went with the no huddle hurry up offense we moved the ball. Why did we stop. it gave the gators a break and allowed them to adjust. Bob is in charge, he should have told Wilson to **** or get of the pot.
I didn't like the 49 yard fg attempt either...

I think the players were better prepared for this game than the last 2. But when we changed our way of playing offense ( non hurry up offense) it hurt us.
The D did their job. yea, they missed a few plays but they did enough for us to win.

Coaches will blame the players for not executing plays, but I am picking Wilson

[batonrougesooner]

I found the excruicatingly long pause between getting to the line and the snap of the ball after looking to the sideline very frustrating.

I get how that can play a role in the offense but it seems like they went overboard with it last night. Almost over thinking it.

I like the hurry up offense.

Last nights at times might be better termed the hurry up...and wait.

[soonermagic14]

I just wonder about how bad this will effect recruiting.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I just wonder about how bad this will effect recruiting.

Probably none. Most recruits won't read this thread.

[MyT Oklahoma]

I agree with a lot of what I read above. That's why I come here, to read and see what others are thinking and why. I don't think last night will affect our recruiting at all. Just a hunch.

[soonerfan28]

In the end we were still in it until Bradford put the ball to Iglesias a lil high and Black intercepted it. We could go through what we could have done or should have done a million times, but I am as a fan glad that we sit at the top of the Big12. We have 6 Big 12 championships and thats 3 time as many as anybody else in this league. We have played 113 years of football at OU and we have won 7 legitimate nation titles. That's basically one every 16 years. We have played for 4 in Bob's 10 years. We'll be back and we'll win a few more.

[tulsaoilerfan]

The difference in this game was the Offensive Coordinators; Florida's guy found a play that worked, put it in his memory bank, and came back to it in key situations; our guy found plays that didn't work and still kept coming back to them; really, this game was lost on the goal line when for some inexplicable reason we ran the same play 2x in a row, when all we needed was a QB sneak on 3rd down; didn't we supposedly have the best line in the nation?

I also agree on the tempo, or lack thereof, being a HUGE problem in this game; why don't we just get up there and run the damn play being called instead of waiting to see what they other team does? WE should be the ones dictating what is going to happen, not the defenses.

I remember more than once Sam looking to the sideline and the play wasn't even being signaled in yet with almost half the play clock already gone.

I would swear Chuck Long was in the ****ing booth last night:mad:

[SoonerKnight]

you are a ******. The team palyed great last night and there were some good and bad calls with the coaching but hindsight is 20/20 and I think we kept our own in that game. Had we been able to slow down their team speed a little we might have faired better. All in all the game was great and even though we did not win I know one thing since Stoops has been there Oklahoma has consistantly been thought of for the championship games and while Florida won the game this year well 2009 they will not win it they will be out and we very well could be there!!!!

[The Remnant]

Maybe I am missing something here, but didn't OU just get to the BCS Championship game and damn near win it all?

[bonkuba]

Maybe I am missing something here, but didn't OU just get to the BCS Championship game and damn near win it all?

Best post of the thread..........

[tulsaoilerfan]

you are a ******. The team palyed great last night and there were some good and bad calls with the coaching but hindsight is 20/20 and I think we kept our own in that game. Had we been able to slow down their team speed a little we might have faired better. All in all the game was great and even though we did not win I know one thing since Stoops has been there Oklahoma has consistantly been thought of for the championship games and while Florida won the game this year well 2009 they will not win it they will be out and we very well could be there!!!!

Go right ahead and drink the crimson kool aid and be happy that we are now 1-3 in title games; we all realize you can't win them all but last night's game, and the Sugar Bowl in 2003, were both winnable games that were blown by the offensive coordinators of those teams, period. 15 pts per game will not win you many BCS championships

[tulsaoilerfan]

Who says we will even get another chance to play for a title? If we want to do it, we damn well better go unbeaten to have any chance to overcome the human bias in the polls

[Curly Bill]

Go right ahead and drink the crimson kool aid and be happy that we are now 1-3 in title games; we all realize you can't win them all but last night's game, and the Sugar Bowl in 2003, were both winnable games that were blown by the offensive coordinators of those teams, period. 15 pts per game will not win you many BCS championships

...but...but...but...at least we got there. :rolleyes:

[Curly Bill]

Maybe I am missing something here, but didn't OU just get to the BCS Championship game and damn near win it all?

You realize that damn near winning it all doesn't count for much right?

I mean I damn near won the lottery last week, but I didn't, and so I'm an average Joe. Now, see how that works?

[Crucifax Autumn]

I just finished reading a bunch of stupid crap here, but the one thing that's accurate is the tempo argument.

And in a few other threads some of OUr smarter posters have suggested giving Sam audible power rather than having all those looks over to the sideline that drag crap out too long. Get the initial play to him as fast as possible and if there's gonna be an audible let him read the D and call it. That should be the #1 focus on offense in the Spring along with working our O line.

As for the D...we just need to get some nasty guys in the mix. We've got some good backups currently that are gonna have to step it up a bit and some of the new recruits are looking pretty damned promising.

I don't have the Venables hate thing going though he has pissed me off from time to time. I don't know who can step in and offer what we need, but somewhere there has to be a guy who is willing to take a co-D coordinator job and who thinks like the bastard child of Mike Stoops and Buddy Ryan. And whoever that guy is...let's make sure he doesn't have kids, doesn't have a wife, and has a giant hairlip and a body odor problem so he has no choice but to spend every single moment of his life watching film and scheming.

[birddog]

I just wonder about how bad this will effect recruiting.

it won't affect recruiting one bit. if a recruit chooses to go somewhere else because OU lost, then they'll have to choose florida because usc, texass, tosu etc. weren't even in the championship game.

[Since71ASooner4Life]

Between 1975 and 1985, Barry Switzer won zero National championships. Think of all the times he should he have been fired during those years! Lousy bum shouldn't be allowed back in Norman.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Between 1975 and 1985, Barry Switzer won zero National championships. Think of all the times he should he have been fired during those years! Lousy bum shouldn't be allowed back in Norman.

Switzer damn near got fired after 81-83, so don't pretend it can't happen to any coach

[Dio]

I love how you can't even ask "WTF happened?" without all the sunshine pumpers going ape****.

[delhalew]

You realize that damn near winning it all doesn't count for much right?

I mean I damn near won the lottery last week, but I didn't, and so I'm an average Joe. Now, see how that works?

Thank you. After a heart breaking loss like that you have the right to question, why, how, and how to fix it.

Fact is, Wilson did a poor job. He has to examine why. I don't ever want to see that again.

You know what else? Bob is not perfect. When your kicker is only used for PATs expecting him to kick a LONG one against a team KNOWN for blocks is foolish. Also, this is not the first time Bob has mismanaged timeouts.

That said they both have my support. FIX IT.

[Jock Ewing]

I am a Longhorn. Some of you guys really want to get rid of Wilson? I think he is incredible. You are nuts if you want him gone. I would take him in a heart beat

[wishbonesooner]

well that'as the thing Jock. Bob Stoops told us after winning the 2000 championship that we shouldn't thank him for winning national championships, we should expect it from him. We took that to be gospel, so pardon us for having higher expectations than you horns do.

[soonerfan28]

Not ever OU coach can win 47 in a row so maybe that should be the next thing we expect from Bob.

[ouengineer97]

To a certain degree, our ease with which we play most teams during the regular season, in a strange way, I think hurts us when we play equal or better talented teams. Knowing how to play in tough situations and being tested multiple times during the regular season seems to be lacking and prevents our players and coaches from getting to experience and play in tight situations.

I think if we had been in more tough situations throughout the season in hostile environments that it would help to prepare both the players and the coaches for these situations when they occur in the "big" game at the end of the season.

If you look at our 2000 championship team, or even the last 3 BC champions (LSU & UF), these teams faced several critical situations throughout the year, so when those same situations occured in the NC game, I think the coaches had the right play calls at the right time.

I think if our team had to play a really tight "defensive" game 1-2 times during the regular season, then the coaches and players may have called the game a little differently on Thursday. For example, they might have chosen to take 3 points instead of go for it on 4 &1, Sam might have thrown the ball away instead of forcing into coverage (even though it was open) because points are so valuable. Not kicking a 49 yard field goal and either going for it or just trying to pin the other team deep. This is the kind of game plan (or decisions) that you see employed in the NFL all the time when you have two equally talented teams.

Having attended pretty much all of the games the last 3 years (including the bowl games), I think the this year's team is miles of ahead of where were last year as a team and certainly much much better than we were 2 and 3 years ago. If we can use this game as a learning experience and come back a little tougher next year, then we might just finally finish with a win. Of course, this depends on several players, especially Sam, coming back next year.

[soonerfan28]

97,I hear were you're coming from but we can't make the teams we play any better then what they are. If they can't challenge us then we can't help that.

[ouengineer97]

Very true. Since we are losing players on the O-line, we may get the "opportunity" to have more defensive struggles next year, whether we want them or not. If Sam comes back, then we still got a shot.

[goingoneight]

It wasn't Venables... it wasn't Wilson... it wasn't some BCS or Heisman curse, you tards. We were on an level playinf field with them and UF caught the breaks.

Sam's INT thrown to Iglesias wasn't too high... it hit him right smack-dab on the hands and bounced out.

Manny Johnson tipped a ball that hit him smack-dab on the hands, bouncing into a pool of UF defensive backs.

When you lose a turnover battle, how many times do you win a football game? Two of the four turnovers were flukes, two kpt us out of the endzone. They were RED ZONE PLAYS.

The ball being thrown perfectly on target, and receivers not catching it is NOT Venables, Stoops or KW's fault. I'll tell you my personal opinion... all the people who love to **** on Malcom Kelly, I bet there's a GREAT chance he makes some of those catches. Just goes to show you how dumb fans are, especially after a loss.
Different sport but same concept...
Do you blame Jeff Capel for the loss to Arkansas or do you blame the air balls and turnovers?

This team showed up and did damn near eveything they needed to do to win the MNC... they just caught all the bad breaks and it was too much with 9:00 left to stop one of the best offenses in the nation for melting the clock and wearing down the front seven. We put big hits on Tebow, we showcased that we're not a bunch of slow dogs who couldn't handle Florida's dreaded "speed" advantage, we tackled, jumped routes, covered kickoffs perfectly... and oh, yeah... we showed no reason to believe we couldn't move the ball on their defense without OUr best RB/WR in the game. The ball just didn't bounce OUr way and it was damned evident it didn't. That's not coaches or officiating's fault... stop melting down people. And do yourself a BIG favor and stop buying into what ESPN and the rest of the Tebow gushers are saying. There was no Heisman curse and Tebow did nothing more than we expected he'd do... Sam played just fine. Tip-ball interceptions are just plain suckitude for quarterbacks because people will always remember him as "the guy who threw two picks" and "obviously he didn't deserve his Heisman. Nevermind they were perfect passes that bouced right off the top two senior WRs hands and into the bellies of UF DBs.

[The Remnant]

I agree wholeheartedly with goingoneight.

[tommieharris91]

Do you blame Jeff Capel for the loss to Arkansas or do you blame the air balls and turnovers?


This is the football board. Most people here don't know who Jeff Capel is or that OU is playing a game right now.

[iknowyoudidnt]

An offensive coordinator that doesn't go into the fetal position during big games where the opposing defense has some success would be a good start. Our worst enemy the last few years has been smart, creative defensive coordinators on the opposite side, 'cause they outthink us every single time. Torching weak-*** Big 12 defenses for a ton of yards isn't good enough.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I am a Longhorn. Some of you guys really want to get rid of Wilson? I think he is incredible. You are nuts if you want him gone. I would take him in a heart beat

You have Davis, a heartbeat would be better than Davis.

[bent rider]

Who says we will even get another chance to play for a title? If we want to do it, we damn well better go unbeaten to have any chance to overcome the human bias in the polls

Like the Utah Utes?

[Big John]

1) Tempo: Florida talked about how to stop us when we run the hurry up, but they couldn't. Neither could any other team. If we hurry up to the line and run the football some, then we score nearly every time. Why we went away from that, I don't know.

2) Guts: We should have ran the football up the middle for an easy touchdown on third that one drive, sure, but our o-line should still have had enough balls to hold the d-line off our running back long enough to get to the endzone.

Saying that, we have the right coaches. Stoops is great, Wilson is amazing, Venables really pulled this young defense together by the end of the season. The one thing that I'm upset about is the mentality. As soon as I saw us get stuffed twice on the goaline, I new these guys weren't going to win it. The 2000 team would have never gotten stuffed on the goaline. Every time we could have stomped Florida while they were down, we bitched out:

a) we threw a deep pass early on that put us in scoring position, but Robinson held and the play was called back (killed the drive)
b) we didn't run it up the middle on third and inches on the goaline, but instead we got stuffed twice trying to run it outside (really made us look queer)
c) we slowed down the pace even though Florida we getting molested whenevery we ran it fast

I'm not being unrealistic when I say OU is the better team. Florida played with a lot of guts and made big plays, so props to those guys, they deserved to win. But OU needs to buy into the thought that they are the best.

[East Coast Bias]

I agree with 8 as well, however I think the FU DB's were all over the receivers on every single play and Sam had to force some tight throws. Some of the tight ones he completed were unbelievable, including the throw to Gresham in the end-zone. The two interceptions were against very tight coverage, any way you call it. Don't get me wrong I think Sam played great, even some of the talking heads think his stock in the draft will go up after the game.On the play that was intercepted on the goal-line, one of the coaches should have told him to air-mail it into the bleachers, if it was not wide-open and take the three. Any other QB would have had4-5 interceptions in that game....

[Big John]

The ball that was taken away from Iglesias was thrown too high. Sam received some pressure on the previous plays, he had a freak accident interception previously, and he was running a messed-up slow paced offense. Things weren't going his way, and the Gators d-line did a nice job of pushing our o-line back, so the pocket was a bit tighter on his blind side. Sam tried to make a big play and threw the ball to Iglesias who was open enough, but the Florida defender made a nice play and took the ball away from him dispite a good effort.

Sam played a pretty nice game, he tried to stay calm (and he did for the most part), and I'm not faulting the guys for either of his picks. That being said, you still have to remember he is still just a sophomore. He's the best quarterback out there, but he can still elivate his level of play. If he comes back, then I think we might actually get the crystal ball next season.