What Would Happen

[Sooner04]

If a big man came along to the game of basketball and actually knew what he was doing? I remember when Oden was about to go to Ohio State, and people, including NBA GMs, were calling him a once in a generation type talent. Sure he's athletic, and sure he's alright on defense but, frankly, Greg Oden doesn't know how to play basketball. His footwork is a mess, his range is about one foot and he averages eight fouls, EIGHT FOULS, per 48 minutes. Wilt Chamberlain never, not even once, fouled out of a game.

In June, some NBA GM will draft Hasheem Thabeet and realize, about two weeks in, that the kid has no clue how to play basketball. This happens every year with GMs being infatuated with big men who can jump. It's like drafting a QB who can run and has a strong arm. All that stuff is nice, but can he play quarterback?

Will a White Knight ever ride in and actually know how to play? Will a big man ever come along and actually understand how to play basketball? Will he be able to post up and box out? Will he be able to step back and hit a 10-footer? Will he be able to, be still my beating heart, incorporate some sort of hook shot into his game?

I've been thinking of this for a while, but I think if somebody came along like that he could legitimately score 30-35 a game in college and 25-30 in the pros. But where is he? Has offensive ability been muddied by the defensive tricks players are able to get away with today? If you truly understand basketball, you ought to be able to take your game from college right into the pros and immediately produce. Yet this hasn't happened in ages. I look at basketballreference.com all the time and I'm just slack-jawed at guys like Alcindor who took god-awful teams and made them great IMMEDIATELY.

This topic is a pure ramble, but I want to see somebody who's big who understands the game of basketball. If and when he ever comes along, I shall love him.

[King Crimson]

in part, why i pulled for guys (recently) like Sam Clancy, Lonny Baxter, or Ace to make the NBA. Even Sean May. these guys had the ability to make a variety of post moves, step back and hit the 10 footer or go off the glass, and make a team pay for putting him at the line.

but, being 6'6" (=6'9" in the media guide) and squarely built more than pure length is not an NBA position, most of the time.

look at Brian Scalabrine, he's got the best NBA career out of that USC team that had Clancy and Jeff Trepanier (who could really jump out of the gym). He's 6'8" but he shoots the 3 and does "role player" stuff. that's kind of a position in the NBA--at least on good teams.

[Sooner04]

I agree with you on all points.

I'm 6'1'', but when I played pick-up ball it was amazing what could be done with a little shoulder fake while my back was to the basket. It's almost like big men forget there's a pivot foot. If the post move doesn't involve at least two full step, they do not have a clue how to operate. It's amazing to see big guys in the college game who have nary a move with their back to the basket. It's crazy.

Scalabrine and Najera are like peas in a pod. I noticed Eddie shooting lots of treys for George Karl last year while causing general chaos on the defensive end. Every team should have a player like that, and that's what Najera, when healthy, has been doing for nine years now.

I still don't know why guys don't practice the hook shot. No one can do the sky hook like Kareem, but just a normal, old hook shot. It's like the dodo. It's vanished.

[Paperclip]

I'm glad somebody is willing to tell the truth about Hasheem Thabeet. He's terrible.

[royalfan5]

I think a lot of it has to do with the evolution of the game and coaching. I think the increased physicality of the game has a dampening effect on the the variety of post moves seen. It has shifted to power vs. power on the block at all times. I think an overlooked factor is that 90 percent of coaches were guards.(This is worse at the AAU level) The only two current College HC's that were big men of the top of my head is McDermott at ISU, and Louis Orr at Bowling Green(ex-Seton Hall) This leads to less instruction in the fundamentals of post playing at all levels, and a shift towards offensive philosophies that don't hammer the ball inside every possesion(and this accelerated by the lack of big men) to let the big men battle. As less offenses are geared towards requiring a pure center, less centers are going to be developed. Plus, less centers means the ones with potential don't get enough competition against each other to fully develop their skills.

[King Crimson]

problem with the hook shot, or even the little jump hook you used to see from Bookout or better from Collison or Raef LaFrenz is you have to get the ball up on your fingertips away from the palm. this requires touch and (as a golfer 04, you'll know what i mean) a kind of fundamentals of body alignment to do in balance. Ball has to be elevated above the shoulder while the shoulder pivots horizontally toward the hoop...and to do that the arm between the elbow and wrist needs to be perpendicular to the floor. the key is to isolate the wrist and finger tips as the shooting motion/rotation imparting release. we live in a time where big guys can't make FT's let alone work on shot mechanics based in footwork and body alignment. FT's are another exercise in isolating the wrist and fingertips to be able to re-produce the same motion repeatedly. add "going live" to the mix and forget about it with the Roy Hibbert's of the world.

it has the added benefit of keeping guys away from the ball since the shooter has square shoulders and potential stiff arm of the non-shooting arm to keep a defender at bey.

Eddie was great to watch in Denver. He and AI were about the only one's who seemed to understand how to run an offense the years they played together. when the rest of the knuckleheads for the Nugs wouldn't run sets or play 1 on 5 ('sup Melo and JR Smith?) or loiter at the top of the key for his fave shot out of the slowest developing shooting motion in world history (Marcus Camby), Eddie would make some nice cuts to the hoop.

Eddie was good shooter in college and after he kind of "un-bulked" after having to play Kenyon Martin's position (sort of) his range came back after he loosened up through the shoulders. he's not a big O threat at the NBA level obviously....but that was nice to see and his career as a banger pushing 30 was not to be long-lived. Sad to see him go, as a half-hearted Nuggets fan.

[NormanPride]

Tim Duncan plays basketball. He actually has a *GASP* bank shot from about 15 feet!

[Sooner04]

Good point about Duncan. I loathe him for his constant whining, but he's as fundamental a player as I've seen in quite some time. He's a bit undersized for what I'm looking for though.

I guess my complaint is for the 7-footers who make gobs of cash and really don't know how to play. Oden, Thabeet, Hibbert: those guys had praise heaped upon them and I'd watch and wonder why. I love watching those old NBA films of guys like Jabbar and Olajuwon and it's 25 and 10, night after night after night.

My beef, as royalfan5 suggested, should be with the coaches who can't coach big men. We just lost the best one who ever lived, Pete Newell, so I guess the tutelage will continue to decline. What I can't fathom is why I, all 6'1'' of me, can develop post moves in my driveway while these clowns, who are 7-foot or taller, look like Frankenstein out there. Are they too tall to have proper balance? Are they idiots? There's a big, lumbering 7-footer on damn near every NBA roster and 95% of them turn to stone at the mere thought of a back-to-the-basket pivot move.

It's infuriating.

I'm just waiting for that guy to come along who's polished out of high school. He can work facing, or back to, the basket. He's got a hook shot, and he's got touch. He understands spacing and angles. He can hit 70% of his free throws. That guy will come to college and average 30 and 15 a game. That guy will go to the team that wins the lottery and instantly turn them into a contender, and I'll be hopelessly in love with him.

Maybe it was Tim Duncan. I sure hope not, because I can't stand that guy.

[TopDawg]

Patrick Ewing's baseline, turnaround, fade-away jumper was an all-time great. I used to practice that move in my driveway for hours.

[Sooner04]

Ewing is a perfect example of the coaching problem. He came in raw, as did Mourning, as did Harrington, as did Mutombo, but they had a big man coaching them. Big John turned all those guys, who were defensive forces, into, at the very worst, serviceable offensive weapons. Ewing and Mourning were obviously far better on the offensive end than Harrington and Mutombo ever were.

Maybe it is the coaching. As a matter of fact, it's got to be the coaching. Look at the turnaround in Andrew Bynum and the one-on-one work he's been doing with Jabbar. That kid could barely tie his shoes when he was drafted.

[8timechamps]

Maybe I'm off base a bit here, but I can't help but think of the desire to "make it to the bigtime" that swirls in every high school star with size and a decent jump shot.

Think about it, when was the last time a true big man stayed 4 years in college (or heck, even 3) and developed (I know, I know, it's a bad word) his game and actually took time to gain some informed coaching before jumping into the NBA?

You can't tell me that there isn't a correlation between the two.

There will be those "once in a generation" type of player, but even that is going south (as referenced with Oden).

Shaq redefined the position. I will believe that until someone convinces me otherwise. Size, size, size. Nevermind your ability 5 feet from the rim. That's the way I view GM's take on big men now.

04, I think your dream of seeing a true big man may just be out of sight.

If you watch much international play, you'll see a pattern of range over size. I happen to the the NBA has adjusted it's play to favor the international game. It's had to if it wants to develop markets outside of the Americas.

[GrapevineSooner]

I dunno.

From a purely fundamental standpoint, I think Tim Duncan's done more than his part to prove just how fundamental footwork is in the game.

[the_ouskull]

It's not the international players that we should be recruiting. It's the international coaches.

the_ouskull

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

I'm glad somebody is willing to tell the truth about Hasheem Thabeet. He's terrible.

Not terrible. Just hugely overrated. He actually has progressed a lot from when he played in a local tourney in high school here a few years ago. It wasn't even apparent at that time that he was the best high school player in the tourney. Now he is a potential lottery pick...though I agree with the larger point that 04 was trying to make.

I'm afraid though in todays game that George Gervin wouldn't make it through a season without getting hurt. The game at the NBA level is so physical now that skill is often sacrificed for the ability to give and take a pounding.

[jkjsooner]

Several points:

1. As someone previously posted, Tim Duncan is exactly what you were asking for so I wouldn't say there is nobody in the game who can do these things.

2. While he may not have the footwork or moves you are asking for, Shaq was truly a once in a generation talent coming out of college. He's a huge guy who could run the floor (earlier in his career) and overpower anyone. I think he gets by with ducking his shoulder into the defense too much but he is (or was) a wonderful player. Shaq had big hands which limited his shooting abilities but nobody has everything...

3. I think you're asking too much from a 7 footer. I'm 5'11" and I used to think that if I had my ability at 7 foot I would be all pro. But, you know what, I wouldn't have half my agility or coordination at 7 foot. It just doesn't work that way. Your average 7 footer can barely put two feet in front of another.

I get frustrated with big guys getting into foul trouble because they make stupid fouls and go for head fakes too much. I'll agree with that. While it might have been successful, I hated the Sampson style of always fouling a guy under the basket if you're out of position as it lead to fould trouble in every single game but that does seem to be common in today's game.

The hook shot is kind of a lost art. I think it could be very successful but maybe Jabaar was just so good at it that he made it look easy.

[8timechamps]

It's not the international players that we should be recruiting. It's the international coaches.

the_ouskull

I would agree with that to a degree. What are we (as fans) wanting? NBA style (all-star players, surrounded by a supporting cast), or a true "team"?

The only reason I think most American coaches and players have even entertained the international game, is for the Olympics/World Tournaments (Tournament of the Americas, etc.). Otherwise, I think our form (or brand) of basketball is what sells the most tickets, so that's what the focus is.

I honestly think the days of a true "big man" that can play with a full skill set are long gone. With the exception of one every 10-12 years.

[8timechamps]

2. While he may not have the footwork or moves you are asking for, Shaq was truly a once in a generation talent coming out of college. He's a huge guy who could run the floor (earlier in his career) and overpower anyone. I think he gets by with ducking his shoulder into the defense too much but he is (or was) a wonderful player. Shaq had big hands which limited his shooting abilities but nobody has everything...

Bingo. The reason Shaq was so dominate is that he was the fisrt big man to utilize his size in an aggresive style. I would argue that no big man of the past would be able to post up on Shaq night-in and night-out. DON'T READ INTO THAT. That's not to say players like Wilt couldn't outplay him, but on a nightly basis, I just can't see Wilt or anyone else being able to stand in the paint with Shaq EVERY night.

[cheezyq]

The problem is that these guys are huge from the time they enter high school basketball, and they don't have anyone to challenge them or compete with them. They get used to jumping out of the building and overpowering them, as almost all HS players are 6-10 inches shorter. Since it works, they have no reason to learn anything new.

That's why Blake is so good. He's faced an athletic big man every day of his life in his brother. Sure, his brother is 6'7", but he's strong, athletic, and with his long arms is clearly capable of creating a challenge for Blake. Not only that, but even at 6'7", Taylor is capable of scoring inside because of facing his taller brother every day.

Meanwhile, college big men are just now figuring out how to go against people their size. And let's face it, most young big men have had it so easy that they can frequently be categorized as lazy.

Then there's just the natural agility factor and differences in physical traits. The higher the center of gravity, the harder it is to keep balance. Dribbling is more difficult because it takes longer for the ball to go down and come back up on a big man. A taller man also has to factor a completely different angle on the basket. The standard arching of a shot is different for a tall man than a short man. A taller man has larger hands, making it more difficult to get a good rotation on the ball, making deeper shots and free throws more difficult.

That's why a guy like Duncan, who can get low on the dribble, can get a good rotation on a deep shot, and who has good agility in post moves, is SO valuable to an NBA franchise. Those guys who have the work ethic and intelligence to figure it out are extremely rare.

[8timechamps]

That's why a guy like Duncan, who can get low on the dribble, can get a good rotation on a deep shot, and who has good agility in post moves, is SO valuable to an NBA franchise. Those guys who have the work ethic and intelligence to figure it out are extremely rare.

That speaks volumes. Couldn't have put it better.

Ducan's success in the NBA is more a product of his intelligence as it is to anything else.

I don't mean to sound "stereotypical" (if you can even sound that way), but that's what's lacking in 99.9% of all big men. Shaq included.

[the_ouskull]

Note: (Since I feel like I have to say this sometimes, which is kinda sad if you know me...)

I'm not slamming anyone or their opinions. I'm just interjecting my own.

I think that in all of the hype, power, and free throw failures, one thing that really gets overlooked about Shaq's game, especially in the early years, is his footwork. He's not just ridiculously strong, and aggressive, but he gets really good position, and he knows (knew? knows? I mean, he's having a decent year this year, actually...) how to take advantage of that position once he gets there.

And, as sad as this is, I think that because his free throw shooting was so horrible, his footwork actually got BETTER for a number of years; at least up through his first championship with L.A. But, I honestly feel that, even if he were 6'10", 250 instead of 7'2", 300-360 (it fluctuated) he would have still been a really good player. He wouldn't have been Shaq, but he would have been Shaquille, and he would have been a name.

What did it for me was watching him learn the game his first couple of years in the league. He was already a larger-than-life figure, and the face of a new franchise in a town with one of the longest-running franchises going... and he ate it up... he worked on his game. Watch his first games against the likes of Hakeem, Ewing, and Wennington. Then watch his next game against them. He studied the game. I just think back to the point when he realized that, if he attacks David Robinson, David Robinson's going to fold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v53lwRhU4fs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI85iVU3xkE

[Warning: Not safe for David Robinson or his family members, present or future...]

But watch him when he's making those moves that he used to make early in his career. His footwork, combined with his strength and quickness, got him those dunks that everybody used to complain about. "That's all he can do is dunk." Sh*t, that's all YOU'D do too if you were getting paid like that because NOBODY IN THE WORLD could stop it.

It's Shaq's footwork, mainly early in his career, and seeing the initial improvement in his game, that I think of when I think of a "big man."

Also, 04... You mention Hakeem as a legit big man, but say that Duncan lacks legit size. Dude... Duncan's taller than Hakeem. (And don't get me wrong... Hakeem fan since Phi Slamma Jamma here, although that was mainly because of Clyde Drexler in retrospect... Just sayin'...

(I think that Duncan's one of the best "big men" in the history of the game, and he should be the training video for future generations of bigs, just like Michael Jordan was for guards.

And, coming full circle, don't underestimate the "Jordan Effect" on the quality of big man play nowadays. Everybody's that "coming-of-age" so to speak, nowadays, grew up on Jordan, or are / were being coached by someone who did. Kids that could have developed into "true" bigs, like a Chris Bosh, or a Jermaine O'Neal, instead, worked more on their "hybrid" game.

And, since Greg Oden lacks that hybrid game, he's being touted as a "once-in-a-generation player," which he is, but for the reason just listed, not just his size.

Random thoughts. Comment. Enjoy. Hate. Whatev. :D

the_ouskull

[8timechamps]

Skull-
Not now or ever have been a big Shaq fan. However, I (like most others) cannot turn a blind eye to his dominance at the position. I still believe it's becase he was (and remains) the first big man (more in size) that knew how to be just aggresive enough. While a lot of folks have knocked his attitude over the years, I think that's a large part of his success.

Oden is good, and he will only get better, but I have serious doubts that he will ever live up to the hype.

[Sooner04]

Also, 04... You mention Hakeem as a legit big man, but say that Duncan lacks legit size. Dude... Duncan's taller than Hakeem. (And don't get me wrong... Hakeem fan since Phi Slamma Jamma here, although that was mainly because of Clyde Drexler in retrospect... Just sayin'...
Really? I had it in my head that Olajuwon was 7'0'' while Duncan was 6'9'' or 6'10''. I'll take your word for it.

In retrospect, you know who I'm looking for? I'm looking for the next Jabbar. I spent a little time watching some of his stuff on youtube last night and he's the guy. 7'2'', runs the floor, blocks shots, scarfs up rebounds. Incredible player.

I used to bemoan Shack and it was purely ego on my part because of the free throws lousiness on his part. The dude does have some GREAT footwork, and that it is to be commended. He's won his titles, but the dude still could've done so much more.

Hard for Oden to approach the hype when he can't stay on the floor.

[NormanPride]

Duncan is 6'11" I believe.

[starrca23]

First, I am giving spek love to you all for having an high quality, knowledgeable basketball conversation.
Second, I agree with just about everything that has been said to this point, but I would like to add some of my own. I think that the lack of fundamentals is so wide spread it is ridiculous, and I mean that on two different levels. One being that even premier big men like Stoudamire and Howard lack fundamentals. They are tall and can out jump everyone and so that is what they do. The other level I see it on is that all players not just big men are lower on fundamentals these days. The smaller players use their quickness the way that the big guys do their size. All of this is leading to the erosion of fundamentals. This is also why you see the infusion of sucessful European players. Marc Gasol would have been absolutely abused in the mid 80's to mid 90's However, his skill set allows him to be sucessful today. Same with guard play, I love Steve Nash, is he more skilled than Isaiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, Byron Scott, Dennis Johnson...maybe slightly on the last two, but their athletic ability combined with their fundaments would have caused Nash to have a much more difficult time in the league. This is not to disrespect Steve, but rather to indicate the level of skill that he plays against or rather, does not play against.
Reasons for this are abundant and have been discussed at length already, as a former high school coach I will maintain that AAU ball has been a major (not the only) source for skill erosion. These teams start as early as third grade...and they travel!! What kid doesn't want to be recruited, recieve free shoes, and travel. These high school AAU tourneys have become nothing more than a meat market for kids to show off athletic ability. AAU coaches often want to score college jobs (See Frank Martin at K-State...the guy is not a good person for proof check out what he did as a high school coach in Florida) the fastest way is to find the next big player and promise to deliver him in return for a job. Do you think a guy doing that is interested in fundamentals?

[cheezyq]

I think that in all of the hype, power, and free throw failures, one thing that really gets overlooked about Shaq's game, especially in the early years, is his footwork. He's not just ridiculously strong, and aggressive, but he gets really good position, and he knows (knew? knows? I mean, he's having a decent year this year, actually...) how to take advantage of that position once he gets there.

I used to just hate Shaq. Even though he had some nice parts to his game - the footwork, the passing, the nice baby hook - he was also very irritating for the bad parts of his "game".

The problem is that he would manhandle defenders by backing them down. But the game of basketball isn't designed for guys to just overpower others. A defender has just as much right to his space as the offender has to his space. Time after time Shaq would just use his enormous hide to bump a guy out of his space and back him down. Technically, that's an OFFENSIVE foul, but inevitably it would end up as a defensive foul or a Shaq dunk.

I've seen Shaq defended numerous ways, some legitimate and some not, but nothing ever worked because Shaq would always get that "star treatment" that people like to complain about. The correct defense would be to get close and put your arms straight up and down and make him go around you. But that's nearly suicide, as one bump from Shaq's *** would have you taking a seat in the 5th row....and the officials still wouldn't call the offensive foul.


And, coming full circle, don't underestimate the "Jordan Effect" on the quality of big man play nowadays. Everybody's that "coming-of-age" so to speak, nowadays, grew up on Jordan, or are / were being coached by someone who did. Kids that could have developed into "true" bigs, like a Chris Bosh, or a Jermaine O'Neal, instead, worked more on their "hybrid" game.

And, since Greg Oden lacks that hybrid game, he's being touted as a "once-in-a-generation player," which he is, but for the reason just listed, not just his size.

Very astute observation. Too many big guys are focused on their face up game and their outside game to be a force inside. Guys that can make moves with their back to the basket are increasingly rare. Of course it looks cool to break a guy down with a fancy dribble, but big guys minimize their height/size advantage by doing so.

[TopDawg]

Really? I had it in my head that Olajuwon was 7'0'' while Duncan was 6'9'' or 6'10''. I'll take your word for it.

I always picture Duncan as being smaller than he really is because when he started with the Spurs he was their "power forward" and Robinson was their center. Back then power forwards were 6'9"/6"10" and centers were 7-footers.

[the_ouskull]

Well, according to their NBA.com profiles, Hakeem is an inch taller than Duncan, 7'0" to 6'11". However, I've been a bit of a Hakeem fan since 1993ish, and especially in '95 when he helped Clyde get his (much-deserved) ring; and the guy is NOT a seven-footer.

http://www.basketballreference.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=OLAJUHA01 (6'10")

Also, (and I know that this one's not a legitimate academic source, but I'd heard the same thing in the past, even in games at times...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakeem_Olajuwon (6'10", self-admitted...)

But, things get a little interesting when you do a little searching...

Here he is noticeably shorter than Shaq, who is 7'2". Depending on where their heads cut off, at the very least, this one keeps him at 6'10".

http://api.ning.com/files/LSCS7p6e93lzf2Yvy62cJZBpeluTS4p2X9HmewSXmTQ_/Hakeem_vs_Shaq.jpg

(Keep in mind for this one that Yao's got a big-*ssed head... Jus' sayin'...) Yao's 7'6" and change. How tall is Hakeem?

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eK01oY36FbSI/610x.jpg

And this last one, while not entirely reliable, especially considering that Barkley's a good two feet from Hakeem... but Clyde is right next to him... Clyde's 6'7".

http://i35.tinypic.com/2db75te.jpg

YOU be the judge! :D

the_ouskull

[Sooner04]

Another stellar game from Greg Oden tonight. Four points, four fouls and two rebounds in his first matchup with Kevin Durant. Not that Durant is God's gift to the sport or anything, but Portland has got to be worried considering they're the guys who passed on MJ.

Once in a generation player, my butt.

[oumartin]

Odom is great in commercials though D

[the_ouskull]

Another stellar game from Greg Oden tonight. Four points, four fouls and two rebounds in his first matchup with Kevin Durant. Not that Durant is God's gift to the sport or anything, but Portland has got to be worried considering they're the guys who passed on MJ.

Once in a generation player, my butt.

For me, Oden gets a pass until 2010. He was a kid who had always relied on his size and athleticism. Then, before he has a chance to compare those at the highest level, he suffers a season-ending injury. He'd been hurt before, but not like that. So, in addition to missing out on game experience, he wasn't even able to go through practice experience. Add to all of that his age, the expectations heaped upon him... He's (literally) just a big kid. It couldn't have been easy.

Anyway, other than the various psychological factors (which I'm a firm believer in; I'm like the white Phil Jackson, lol) involved, Oden, a physically skilled, but not terribly basketball skilled, or experienced, big man is in what amounts to his rookie year right now. He's a year removed from basketball, making the largest possible leap (college to NBA), while coming off of an injury; and his first major injury at that.

I think that, as long as we see constant positive improvement, he should get a consistency / dominance pass at least until around this time next year. By then, he'll have the requisite experience - playing in the league, playing with his injury, and playing within his team's system, to have no more excuses. I don't think he's going to be a lifetime All-Star; nor did I think so when he was drafted. But he's got a chance to be a really, really good, even great player, for a very long time; and worse-case scenario, he's an (a potentially) excellent defender and rebounder with great size and youth.

I understand your frustration with Oden's play, though. On my high school boys team right now, our key player is a 6'6", 240 pound post player who keeps getting into foul trouble. He doesn't realize that the blocked shot should be his LAST line of defense, not his first. If he works defensively to get in front of the offensive player in the low post, and is comfortable enough in the system to talk to his teammates to keep them from getting beat backside, or baseline, forcing him to slide over late on drives and pick up cheap fouls that way, then he can be absolutely dominant on defense. And, offensively, he's one of those "my idols were guards" that I was talking about earlier. Too often he'll fade away instead of power up. It's frustrating, but we're the first coaches that he's ever had that have really made him 1) work on his game, and 2) use his size to HIS advantage, not the other team's...

I think that Oden will come into his own... somewhat by the end of this year... really good by the end of training camp next season, and near (current) max potential by the middle of next season, with a potential All-Star bid (with Shaq retiring, Amare going East, and Duncan a forward... [removes tongue from cheek]) But, that's just me, I reckon.

the_ouskull