Big 12 D - Chicken or Egg - Looks like the Big 12 Chicken once again laid an Egg.

[L-Boy]

The debate has been whether Big 12 defenses are soft, or are the Big 12 offenses so dominant it makes otherwise decent defenses look bad. Conversely, are the SEC defenses strong, or are the offenses really mediocre?

Well, Ole Miss laid 47 on TT, a member of the 3 way tie for B12 South champion. Oregon ran all over Okie St. Overall the SEC looks pretty good in Bowls.

I'm not one to trash talk, but the UF fans have been blasted on here for their failure to 100% buy into the Big 12 offensive juggernaut theory. However, a different picture is starting to emerge.............

[SoonerBoognish]

Doomed.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

yet strangely enough, the big 12 north looks fairly strong defensively - even though they got smoked by the big 12 south during the season.

[SoonerBacker]

Yeah. If we just compare scores from all of the bowl games, it is so obvious.

DOOMED!

Just book the flight back to OKC tonight...........


"...UF fans have been blasted on here for their failure to 100% buy into the Big 12 offensive juggernaut theory..."


Editorial note: Actually, I am of the opinion that FU fans have been blasted on this board for failure to recognize that Oklahoma might just have some chance of staying on the field with the gators.

[MojoRisen]

OU who won by 44 and Ole Miss won by 13 and also beat Florida by one - only means we will beat FLorida by more than 32...

[delhalew]

I guess I understand why you would think that, but you will be dissappointed.

[PDXsooner]

How about this -- Penn State killed Oregon State, who beat USC handily...who KILLED PENN STATE!!! AAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!! My Head will explode!!!

[PDXsooner]

How come when an upset happens in the NFL it's just simply an upset, and not overanalyzed to the point where it becomes a matter of trends in the sport or fundamental differences in regions of the country.

[SoonerBoognish]

I'll say it again.



Zapp: "Scissors cuts paper... and rock crushes scissors... but Paper smothers rock!!! Kiff, we have a conumdrum"
Kiff: *sighs*
Zapp: "Kif, search them for paper, and bring me a rock"
Kiff: "But why!?"

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

you mean like how the patriots beat the giants at the end of the season only to lose to them 3 games later? i blame the NBA...

[swardboy]

What is this Florida fetish with conference prestige that they feel they must export here?

I just want to win Jan. 8.

[PDXsooner]

Somehow I get the feeling that if OU beats Florida, we'll care about all this "conference talk" about as much as an Elephant is concerned with a speck of dust on his ball-sack.

Conference arguments are for losers -- those who need the conference to define them. Our program defines us.

[soonervegas]

L-boy I do think the cotton bowl gives us a little glimpse and I believe this:

Florida will stop our O to around half its normal production, let's say 31 points. It is going to be up to OUs D to play up to their potential (which they have in games this year) and make UF a one dimensional team.

Pretty simple in my mind.

[Leroy Lizard]

I fail to see how any of this makes a difference. We are going to play Florida for the title anyway. The outcome, no matter which way it goes, will make all these arguments moot.

[SoonerBoognish]

What is this Florida fetish with conference prestige that they feel they must export here?

I just want to win Jan. 8.

I assume they think everyone thinks the same way they do and can't accept it when they realize that isn't the case.

[PDXsooner]

you mean like how the patriots beat the giants at the end of the season only to lose to them 3 games later? i blame the NBA...

The Golden State Warriors beat the Celtics the other night. Does this mean the west coast plays a better style of defense, or that the Atlantic Division isn't getting the same type of athletes? Maybe it's the west coast speed?

[SoonerBoognish]

One other thing, I blame the mentality on the Civil War. Really.

[SoonerBacker]

The Golden State Warriors beat the Celtics the other night. Does this mean the west coast plays a better style of defense, or that the Atlantic Division isn't getting the same type of athletes? Maybe it's the west coast speed?


Or does that even mean that the Warriors are a better team then the Celtics? They were on that night, but who REALLY believes that the Golden State Warriors are better than the Celtics?

[SanDiegoSoonerGal]

Florida total yards against Ole Miss: 435

Texas Tech total yards against Ole Miss: 469

Texas Tech total yards against OUr defense: 294

Behold the juggernaut that is SEC defense.

[catsigater]

One other thing, I blame the mentality on the Civil War. Really.

There's something to that, no doubt.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

man, poor raiderpower is getting swamped by ole miss fans.

[adoniijahsooner]

One other thing, I blame the mentality on the Civil War. Really.

Funny that you would say that, because I was gonna start a thread that stated "The South lost the Civil War", but maybe we should talk about the historical significance, and what impact it has on SEC football. Do they believe that Nascar and SEC football are the only sports that matter?

[adoniijahsooner]

man, poor raiderpower is getting swamped by ole miss fans.

SEC fans are like cockroaches.

[Scott D]

The debate has been whether Big 12 defenses are soft, or are the Big 12 offenses so dominant it makes otherwise decent defenses look bad. Conversely, are the SEC defenses strong, or are the offenses really mediocre?

Well, Ole Miss laid 47 on TT, a member of the 3 way tie for B12 South champion. Oregon ran all over Okie St. Overall the SEC looks pretty good in Bowls.

I'm not one to trash talk, but the UF fans have been blasted on here for their failure to 100% buy into the Big 12 offensive juggernaut theory. However, a different picture is starting to emerge.............

Pretty sure Vandy's offense is still awful, South Carolina may as well have been the 3rd team in the Pitt/Oregon St. game awful, and Kentucky isn't exactly a bastion of explosiveness.

Pretty sure at this point we can call it a push.

[ratedrsuperstar]

SEC fans are like cockroaches.

The can survive a nuclear attack ????????????????

[TXBOOMER]

Uhh...Well By God..We beat Tech by 44 Ole Miss beat Tech by 13. Ole Miss beat the Gators by 1. Let's see here...44-13+1...I got it.....OU should beat the Gators by 32 and if you don't like that FU.

[L-Boy]

L-boy I do think the cotton bowl gives us a little glimpse and I believe this:

Florida will stop our O to around half its normal production, let's say 31 points. It is going to be up to OUs D to play up to their potential (which they have in games this year) and make UF a one dimensional team.

Pretty simple in my mind.

I agree - I suspect OU will put up 30-35, unless they turn the ball over 2 or more times. I feel pretty good that UF will put up more than that on OU - because UF's offense is by no means one dimensional. Bama thought they could do it, it didn't work, and now we have Harvin back. However, on any given day anything can happen.

[85sooners]

:gary:
How come when an upset happens in the NFL it's just simply an upset, and not overanalyzed to the point where it becomes a matter of trends in the sport or fundamental differences in regions of the country.

[goingoneight]

How many of those yards, touchdowns and broken Red Radier ankles were Demarco Murray?

[Scott D]

I agree - I suspect OU will put up 30-35, unless they turn the ball over 2 or more times. I feel pretty good that UF will put up more than that on OU - because UF's offense is by no means one dimensional. Bama thought they could do it, it didn't work, and now we have Harvin back. However, on any given day anything can happen.

Bama is one dimensional. 8 in the box, and roll safety help onto Jones. Lather, rinse, repeat.

[adoniijahsooner]

The can survive a nuclear attack ????????????????

No. leave out a plate of food, go to sleep, wake up, and you will find your kitchen flooded with them. Tech losing was all the food you guys needed for the day.

[SoonerBoognish]

Isn't rooting for your rivals like kissing your sister? Hmm...

[adoniijahsooner]

http://facweb.eths.k12.il.us/wartowskid/images/cockroaches.jpg

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I agree - I suspect OU will put up 30-35, unless they turn the ball over 2 or more times. I feel pretty good that UF will put up more than that on OU - because UF's offense is by no means one dimensional. Bama thought they could do it, it didn't work, and now we have Harvin back. However, on any given day anything can happen.

oh my god, he finally sees it.

you never know how a bunch of 18-22 year olds are going to come out and play. take ttech today - because ole miss was in a zone they couldn't throw a pass to a wide open receiver or catch it if it hit them in the hands. ole miss also found a very entertaining personnel mismatch that was eerily similar to darren sproles vs us in 2003. add it up and you have ttech regressing back to "hey look we put up 500 yards of offense...and lost".

from what i've seen, there are some personnel matchups that can be exploited by both teams, but nothing absolutely gamebreaking. that means it comes down to turnovers, field position, and execution.

[L-Boy]

Bama is one dimensional. 8 in the box, and roll safety help onto Jones. Lather, rinse, repeat.

So the OU defense is more multi-dimensional than Bama's? To the extent they find more ways to break down, then I guess you are correct.

There is something to be said for sticking to what you are good at. Bama has always been a bread and butter team, and execute what they do very well, stick to fundamentals.

The inference that OU may be a better defense than Bama's is, well, let's just say interesting.

[cvsooner]

It comes down to a one-game season. Period. The season only gets you here and the team that shows up and plays the best will (likely) be the winner.

Don't make turnovers. Capitalize on opportunities. Don't make stupid mistakes on defense, and if you do, don't repeat them.

Penn State did a pretty good job of shutting down the USC running game. Turned out USC didn't need a running game. It looked unfortunately vaguely familiar, though Penn State didn't just give up.

Every conference has its power team(s). The top teams could all beat each other, depending upon the day. Watching USC yesterday I couldn't figure out how they ever lost to Oregon State. Likewise I'm still trying to figure out how Tech ever beat Texas. It happens.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

So the OU defense is more multi-dimensional than Bama's? To the extent they find more ways to break down, then I guess you are correct.

i don't know whether to ask dean to put you out of your misery, or just sit here and continue to pity you.

[L-Boy]

i don't know whether to ask dean to put you out of your misery, or just sit here and continue to pity you.
Your sympathies are appreciated. I will make sure to return the favor after Thursday's game.

[rainiersooner]

How come when an upset happens in the NFL it's just simply an upset, and not overanalyzed to the point where it becomes a matter of trends in the sport or fundamental differences in regions of the country.

Because they have playoffs in the NFL and such mental masturbation is futile.

[PhiDeltBeers]

Uhh...Well By God..We beat Tech by 44 Ole Miss beat Tech by 13. Ole Miss beat the Gators by 1. Let's see here...44-13+1...I got it.....OU should beat the Gators by 32 and if you don't like that FU.

I'll be all over you like a fat girl on a french fry!

:D

[SPuL]

True, but Texas Tech basically just put up 500 yds total offense on a "SEC DEFENSE".

so it could go both ways too. plus we blew out Tech so blah if they lose by 12 or how many pts.

[soonervegas]

Lboy I don't think anyone here is stating that OU is better at D than Bama. I just think many of us feel we have the schemes and players to make UF one dimensional. (Or one dimensional enough to beat you)

[Cam]

So I guess that we're all in agreement that the Pac 10 is the best damn league in all the land then? After all, they did go 5-0 in their bowls, therefore, they must be the best. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Can we please just play the fuggin game already.

[AlbqSooner]

Somehow I get the feeling that if OU beats Florida, we'll care about all this "conference talk" about as much as an Elephant is concerned with a speck of dust on his ball-sack.

Actually the reason elephants throw dust on themselves is to prevent getting sun burned. If you ever had your ball-sack sun burned you would really care about that speck of dust you failed to throw on. (Cliff Klaven, my apologies):D

[tulsaoilerfan]

Tech losing is actually a good omen; remember how badly they stomped a mud hole in Cal right before we played another team from Cal's conference in TGOWWDNS?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

It comes down to a one-game season. Period. The season only gets you here and the team that shows up and plays the best will (likely) be the winner.

Don't make turnovers. Capitalize on opportunities. Don't make stupid mistakes on defense, and if you do, don't repeat them.

Penn State did a pretty good job of shutting down the USC running game. Turned out USC didn't need a running game. It looked unfortunately vaguely familiar, though Penn State didn't just give up.

Every conference has its power team(s). The top teams could all beat each other, depending upon the day. Watching USC yesterday I couldn't figure out how they ever lost to Oregon State. Likewise I'm still trying to figure out how Tech ever beat Texas. It happens.

matchups. the teams in the pac 10 for a long time had to deal with guys like desean jackson, so the recruited corners reflected that. USC only recruits redwoods so everyone had to adapt. throwing a lateral pass to a 6'5 WR works wonders when he is bowling over a 5'10 corner. quite different when the corner is 6'1 and thick.

when you cross conferences you end up with these oddities that either favor or hurt you. penn state had no answer for that except to roll up coverage, then they ran right past them.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Your sympathies are appreciated. I will make sure to return the favor after Thursday's game.

why do you have to pity me? my alma mater has played for the national championship 12 times in my lifetime winning 5. in the time i've been on this board, we've played for the MNC 3 times and one once. regardless of your weak smack, i'll still be here next year.

[GrapevineSooner]

So the OU defense is more multi-dimensional than Bama's? To the extent they find more ways to break down, then I guess you are correct.

There is something to be said for sticking to what you are good at. Bama has always been a bread and butter team, and execute what they do very well, stick to fundamentals.

The inference that OU may be a better defense than Bama's is, well, let's just say interesting.

Yeah, certainly is interesting.

Considering Utah's already up, 14-0, and whipping Bama's ***. Especially on that vaunted defense.

[Cam]

21-0 with 3:45 left in the 1st quarter. A ton of time left in the Sugar Bowl.

[Sooner98]

LBoy, don't look now, but you're losing 21-0 to the Mountain West.

[Scott D]

So the OU defense is more multi-dimensional than Bama's? To the extent they find more ways to break down, then I guess you are correct.

There is something to be said for sticking to what you are good at. Bama has always been a bread and butter team, and execute what they do very well, stick to fundamentals.

The inference that OU may be a better defense than Bama's is, well, let's just say interesting.

your leaps of illogic are nearly astounding.

[Cam]

your leaps of illogic are nearly astounding.

That whole reading comprehension thing is lost on many of our Gator guests. Quite odd really.

[Dio]

I guess "SEC speed" sometimes means you get way behind in a hurry.

[StoopTroup]

This **** is funny...I know why the Mods haven't executed these nimrods now. It's going to be fun when they never show back up after Jan. 8th....

What a load of crap.

LMAO!

You can see it coming like a train wreck...

[landrun]

Tech got more yards on Ole Miss and scored more points on Ole Miss than any team this year.

Tech's defense sucks. But it is indisputable that Tech's offense was the best Ole Miss faced this year. On the other hand, Baylor held Tech to less yards than Ole Miss. Ole Miss would be an average Big XII defense.

Congrats on the win though. ;)

[Panamag8or]

Dudes, Ole Miss is for real. Nutt totally has them buying into his program. I'm gonna go ahead and say they win the west next season. I'd love to see what the Arky board is like today... poor hillbillies.:D

[StoopTroup]

Of course Ole Miss is for real....they beat phlorida. LMAO. We'd be playing suc if they hadn't been for real.

[L-Boy]

I probably should have waited till Bama played before I posted this. :D Having said this, whatever happens, the premise remains the same. Whether or not Bama stinks up the stadium does not make the Big 12 defenses look any better.

I there is an emerging theme, maybe its that the Western teams are better than thought. The Pac10 took a lot of heat due to a middling record vs the mountain west. But clearly some of these teams are for real (and yes that includes TCU)

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

really? because i thought nebraska looked pretty salty.

[Panamag8or]

I there is an emerging theme, maybe its that the Western teams are better than thought. The Pac10 took a lot of heat due to a middling record vs the mountain west. But clearly some of these teams are for real (and yes that includes TCU)

I think we can all agree that the PAC-10 just flat-out sucks.

[GrapevineSooner]

I probably should have waited till Bama played before I posted this. :D Having said this, whatever happens, the premise remains the same. Whether or not Bama stinks up the stadium does not make the Big 12 defenses look any better.

I there is an emerging theme, maybe its that the Western teams are better than thought. The Pac10 took a lot of heat due to a middling record vs the mountain west. But clearly some of these teams are for real (and yes that includes TCU)

Like Scott said, your leaps of illogic are nearly astounding.

[tulsaoilerfan]

I think we can all agree that the PAC-10 just flat-out sucks.

Yet somehow they won all their bowl games, which again just proves that Bowl games don't mean much when it comes to the overall scheme of things

[Camomaha]

[QUOTE][Yet somehow they won all their bowl games, which again just proves that Bowl games don't mean much when it comes to the overall scheme of things/QUOTE]

Right on, none of the bowl games between any of the conferences matter. What matters is the matchup problems each team presents to the other. That is why Penn st dominating OSU, who dominated USC does not equal a Penn st victory over USC. It is matchups pure and simple. All of the conference bowl record talk is mute and why bother debating this now? This will be settled on the field. Sit back and enjoy the game and then talk about this garbage after.

From an NU fan go OU

[TUSooner]

Who cut the cheese? peeeeee-ewwwww

[L-Boy]

Like Scott said, your leaps of illogic are nearly astounding.

Is there an echo in here?

So the recent bowl games are not evidence that the Big 12 defenses are suspect? And how does the fact that Bama laid an egg change that?

Also, to the assertions that OU defense is "multi-dimensional" and that the Gators will be less successful vs the OU D vs Bama D due to this "fact"- why is it that the multi dimensional nature of the OU D allowed the Whorns to lay 45 on you and Okie St to put up 41, and the average of all opponents 360 yds per game?

[soonerboy_odanorth]

Florida total yards against Ole Miss: 435

Texas Tech total yards against Ole Miss: 469

Texas Tech total yards against OUr defense: 294

Behold the juggernaut that is SEC defense.

:les: What do you know!?!?... You're out west!... They don't play real football out there! :les:

[TUSooner]

Is there an echo in here?

So the recent bowl games are not evidence that the Big 12 defenses are suspect? And how does the fact that Bama laid an egg change that?

Also, to the assertions that OU defense is "multi-dimensional" and that the Gators will be less successful vs the OU D vs Bama D due to this "fact"- why is it that the multi dimensional nature of the OU D allowed the Whorns to lay 45 on you and Okie St to put up 41, and the average of all opponents 360 yds per game?

this is not only cheap talk, it's DULL cheap talk.

[soonerboy_odanorth]

Is there an echo in here?

So the recent bowl games are not evidence that the Big 12 defenses are suspect? And how does the fact that Bama laid an egg change that?

Also, to the assertions that OU defense is "multi-dimensional" and that the Gators will be less successful vs the OU D vs Bama D due to this "fact"- why is it that the multi dimensional nature of the OU D allowed the Whorns to lay 45 on you and Okie St to put up 41, and the average of all opponents 360 yds per game?

Truly yours is a dizzying intellect...

Here... stir in a little iocane powder with your tea... mmmm...mmm. Delicious!

[OU_Sooners75]

The debate has been whether Big 12 defenses are soft, or are the Big 12 offenses so dominant it makes otherwise decent defenses look bad. Conversely, are the SEC defenses strong, or are the offenses really mediocre?

Well, Ole Miss laid 47 on TT, a member of the 3 way tie for B12 South champion. Oregon ran all over Okie St. Overall the SEC looks pretty good in Bowls.

I'm not one to trash talk, but the UF fans have been blasted on here for their failure to 100% buy into the Big 12 offensive juggernaut theory. However, a different picture is starting to emerge.............

This has probably been pointed out already, but I am not reading all the post to find out....

L-Boy, care to explain that great Bama defense giving up 31 points to Utah?

Also, since the SEC defenses are so great, care to explain why Ole Miss allowed over 30 against Tech?

Just remember son, that OU beat the hell out of Tech 65-21 and the score at half time was 42-7. Tech scored 14 points during crap time in the second half.

Common opponents do not mean crap, I think we can all agree on that. However, based on your very own argument, OU will beat Florida handily.

[L-Boy]

This has probably been pointed out already, but I am not reading all the post to find out....

L-Boy, care to explain that great Bama defense giving up 31 points to Utah?

Also, since the SEC defenses are so great, care to explain why Ole Miss allowed over 30 against Tech?

Just remember son, that OU beat the hell out of Tech 65-21 and the score at half time was 42-7. Tech scored 14 points during crap time in the second half.

Common opponents do not mean crap, I think we can all agree on that. However, based on your very own argument, OU will beat Florida handily.


Fair enough. As I have tried to point out, my point was my perception that Big 12 D is pretty marginal has been somewhat validated by the bowl performances. However, I simply cannot come to the converse conclusion - that SEC defenses are superior - Bama was not impressive, and to your point Ole Miss did give up a fair amount of yds. I never made the assertion that SEC D was better than other conferences, although I would have said (and still do say) it is better than Big 12 D, on average.

I fully understand the transitive property of mathmatics does not apply to college football scores. And I will confess to occasionally being guilty of seeing trends that might not be there. I have always said that bowl performances are very random - mix up conferences, 4-6 week breaks, teams away from home often with many distractions. Nonetheless, when making arguments, I try to look for actual data, not just my own homeristic rantings. However, the data can lead you a lot of different ways.

[Okie35]

The debate has been whether Big 12 defenses are soft, or are the Big 12 offenses so dominant it makes otherwise decent defenses look bad. Conversely, are the SEC defenses strong, or are the offenses really mediocre?

Well, Ole Miss laid 47 on TT, a member of the 3 way tie for B12 South champion. Oregon ran all over Okie St. Overall the SEC looks pretty good in Bowls.

I'm not one to trash talk, but the UF fans have been blasted on here for their failure to 100% buy into the Big 12 offensive juggernaut theory. However, a different picture is starting to emerge.............

after that bama game i think this really should be closed... cuz they supposedly had the best defense in the sec right or 2nd best?! i think its funny how you compare us to tech yet they got beat by 44 against us... and yall lost to ole miss and tech still put up more points on them then you did?! i mean thats how i see if its how you want to put it... *shrug*... i really think none of this matters but whatever... both tech and ole miss overachieved this year... can't discredit that...

[OU_Sooners75]

Fair enough. As I have tried to point out, my point was my perception that Big 12 D is pretty marginal has been somewhat validated by the bowl performances. However, I simply cannot come to the converse conclusion - that SEC defenses are superior - Bama was not impressive, and to your point Ole Miss did give up a fair amount of yds. I never made the assertion that SEC D was better than other conferences, although I would have said (and still do say) it is better than Big 12 D, on average.

I fully understand the transitive property of mathmatics does not apply to college football scores. And I will confess to occasionally being guilty of seeing trends that might not be there. I have always said that bowl performances are very random - mix up conferences, 4-6 week breaks, teams away from home often with many distractions. Nonetheless, when making arguments, I try to look for actual data, not just my own homeristic rantings. However, the data can lead you a lot of different ways.

And outside of one SEC game so far, the fact that the SEC offenses are not exactly lighting up the scoreboard can still be said.

You are trying to base your argument on two of the worst defenses in teh Big12. Tech and Okie Lite both are in the bottom 1/3 when it comes to overall defense in the Big 12.

I mean, South Carolina, the #2 defense in the SEC gave up 31 points to Iowa.
Alabama the #4 defense in the SEC gave up 31 points to Utah.
Ole Miss the #1 SEC defense gave up 34 to Texas Tech.
And then you have Kentucky playing the #3 team from CUSA and struggling against them.

The SEC defenses have not exactly been stellar either this bowl season.

[IBleedCrimson]

Somehow I get the feeling that if OU beats Florida, we'll care about all this "conference talk" about as much as an Elephant is concerned with a speck of dust on his ball-sack.

Conference arguments are for losers -- those who need the conference to define them. Our program defines us.

THANK YOU!!! I wish I had a spek hammer the size of olevet or pg so that I could more fully bless ur reason and ration with huge quantities of green spek.... This conference first talk drives me effing INSANE!!!! Arghhhhhhhhhh jan8 needs to be here now so we can end this nonsense

[Scott D]

Fair enough. As I have tried to point out, my point was my perception that Big 12 D is pretty marginal has been somewhat validated by the bowl performances. However, I simply cannot come to the converse conclusion - that SEC defenses are superior - Bama was not impressive, and to your point Ole Miss did give up a fair amount of yds. I never made the assertion that SEC D was better than other conferences, although I would have said (and still do say) it is better than Big 12 D, on average.

I fully understand the transitive property of mathmatics does not apply to college football scores. And I will confess to occasionally being guilty of seeing trends that might not be there. I have always said that bowl performances are very random - mix up conferences, 4-6 week breaks, teams away from home often with many distractions. Nonetheless, when making arguments, I try to look for actual data, not just my own homeristic rantings. However, the data can lead you a lot of different ways.

ok I'll try to make this as monosyllabic as I can for you. Since it seems to be the absolute point you continually avoid.

Vanderbilt 16 points (one TD by defense)
South Carolina: 10 points
Alabama: 17 points

Conversely
LSU 38 (GT turned the ball over 3x inside their own 20)
Georgia 24
Kentucky 25 (one TD via special teams)
Ole Miss 47 (multiple defensive/special teams scores)

Your argument is that Big-12 D is still suspect in your mind. My return argument is that SEC O is still suspect as well, therefore this entire argument is a push. In the games where an SEC team scored over 20 points the fact that it took special teams/defensive scores (or majorly short fields in LSU's case, although we can't rule out the onside kick that they got after going up 14-3) to push SEC teams past that barrier. Without defensive/special teams scores the offensive outputs from the teams that aren't considered to be the only teams in the conference with any offensive capability (LSU, Georgia, Ole Miss, Fla) can't even muster 3 touchdowns on non SEC competition. Therefore, the counter argument that you continue to ignore that SEC offenses are bad, continues to be valid. Which in turn lends credence to the fact that part of the current 'myth' of SEC defenses being absolutely dominant is in part due to the fact that the offenses for the most part are equally bad.

Oh, and I would hardly call going 1-7 against the MWC a "middling record" by the Pac-10 this season.

[bent rider]

Well, Ole Miss laid 47 on TT, a member of the 3 way tie for B12 South champion. Oregon ran all over Okie St. Overall the SEC looks pretty good in Bowls.

Ooooops, SEC omelets all over Bourbon Street!

[MojoRisen]

I have been there several times, but did you guys see the BAMA FANS in disbelief :)

I definitely hold more pride than to cross my arms and pout on National TV or even cry like an aggie...

Those fans wanted that win bad, if Saban failed to get his team motivated for the Sugar bowl he is in deep shaite to Bama fans..

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Well, after last night we learned that Utah should be in the title game and not Fla.

Claiming SEC supremacy by beating a team that we beat by 40 = fail. Oh yeah, who else did that team beat this year?

[WileyCoyote]

THANK YOU!!! I wish I had a spek hammer the size of olevet or pg so that I could more fully bless ur reason and ration with huge quantities of green spek.... This conference first talk drives me effing INSANE!!!! Arghhhhhhhhhh jan8 needs to be here now so we can end this nonsense

We don't live and die on some vicarious association with our "conference" affiliation like most SEC fans. We don't need their props. We don't need their sympathy. OU pride comes from our tradition and history of competing and whatever our records are we stand on 'em. But we count 'em all.

If we 'Hang 50' on ya, we will shake your hand and wish you well. If you beat us, we will give you due respect.

Line 'Em Up, Cinch 'Em Up and Lets Play....f**k the stats.....

BOOOMER !!!!

[PDXsooner]

So wait a minute -- are we saying that the South lost the Civil War due to lack of team speed?

[GrapevineSooner]

L-Boy, care to explain that great Bama defense giving up 31 points to Utah?

Don't you see, that fact doesn't support his argument.

So he ignores it like the dumbass he is.

[Scott D]

if I didn't know better, I'd almost think L-Boy was cap in disguise.

[L-Boy]

And outside of one SEC game so far, the fact that the SEC offenses are not exactly lighting up the scoreboard can still be said.

You are trying to base your argument on two of the worst defenses in teh Big12. Tech and Okie Lite both are in the bottom 1/3 when it comes to overall defense in the Big 12.

I mean, South Carolina, the #2 defense in the SEC gave up 31 points to Iowa.
Alabama the #4 defense in the SEC gave up 31 points to Utah.
Ole Miss the #1 SEC defense gave up 34 to Texas Tech.
And then you have Kentucky playing the #3 team from CUSA and struggling against them.

The SEC defenses have not exactly been stellar either this bowl season.

From what I have seen of the D's of OU, Okie St, TT, MO and somewhat UT, both on TV and from scores and stats, they are not exactly lighting the world on fire. Do I closely follow the rest of the Big 12 bottom half? No.

Really, OU made it to the national limelight by putting up 60 pts 5 weeks in a row. It crowning jewels were laying 60 on TT and Okie St. Those are the reasons people put them ahead of UT, to whom they lost early in the season.

All I am saying is from what I have seen, from the Reg season, a few bowl games, and from the stats and scores, that the upper crust of the Big 12's D is soft. I think your argument is partially that TT and OSU's D sucks, but OU's is better. Maybe, but looking at stats and scores the difference is not huge, and the fact that TX and OSU scored over 40 to me says OU's defense is vunerable.

I have said it about 6 times in this thread - but the message is not getting across. I am not saying the SEC D is particularly strong - South Carolina and Bama clearly stunk it up, and some other OOC performances have been suspect. Are these defenses better than the Big 12's, I argue yes, but that is my opinion, feel free to disagree.

[L-Boy]

ok I'll try to make this as monosyllabic as I can for you. Since it seems to be the absolute point you continually avoid.

Vanderbilt 16 points (one TD by defense)
South Carolina: 10 points
Alabama: 17 points

Conversely
LSU 38 (GT turned the ball over 3x inside their own 20)
Georgia 24
Kentucky 25 (one TD via special teams)
Ole Miss 47 (multiple defensive/special teams scores)

Your argument is that Big-12 D is still suspect in your mind. My return argument is that SEC O is still suspect as well, therefore this entire argument is a push. In the games where an SEC team scored over 20 points the fact that it took special teams/defensive scores (or majorly short fields in LSU's case, although we can't rule out the onside kick that they got after going up 14-3) to push SEC teams past that barrier. Without defensive/special teams scores the offensive outputs from the teams that aren't considered to be the only teams in the conference with any offensive capability (LSU, Georgia, Ole Miss, Fla) can't even muster 3 touchdowns on non SEC competition. Therefore, the counter argument that you continue to ignore that SEC offenses are bad, continues to be valid. Which in turn lends credence to the fact that part of the current 'myth' of SEC defenses being absolutely dominant is in part due to the fact that the offenses for the most part are equally bad.

Oh, and I would hardly call going 1-7 against the MWC a "middling record" by the Pac-10 this season.


Its hard to argue that SEC has overall stellar offenses. I am not sure they are as bad as they seem, evidence Ole Miss, but again, apart from UF, they are not lighting it up

This argument can go round and round with no end - that is why I am avoiding making blanket statements about the SEC offense or defense. Do I think the SEC offenses, apart from UF, are stellar? No. Do I think the D's are stellar? No. Do I think the SEC D's are average, yes. Do I think the SEC D's are at least marginally better than the Big 12, yes.

As to the MWC - sorry, I have heard conflicting quotes on that one. Initially I heard a stat similar to yours, but I could swear one of the annoucers on one of the games said the record was even, but perhaps they were talking about multiple years. Whatever the case, the record vs MW is why the Pac 10 looks to suck so bad, but at least USC and Oregon were better than expected. However, the bottom half of the Pac 10 sucks pretty bad.

[soonerfaninfla]

living here in florida, get to watch fla games all the time, just have to stop tebow from running the ball

[Okie35]

Its hard to argue that SEC has overall stellar offenses. I am not sure they are as bad as they seem, evidence Ole Miss, but again, apart from UF, they are not lighting it up

This argument can go round and round with no end - that is why I am avoiding making blanket statements about the SEC offense or defense. Do I think the SEC offenses, apart from UF, are stellar? No. Do I think the D's are stellar? No. Do I think the SEC D's are average, yes. Do I think the SEC D's are at least marginally better than the Big 12, yes.

As to the MWC - sorry, I have heard conflicting quotes on that one. Initially I heard a stat similar to yours, but I could swear one of the annoucers on one of the games said the record was even, but perhaps they were talking about multiple years. Whatever the case, the record vs MW is why the Pac 10 looks to suck so bad, but at least USC and Oregon were better than expected. However, the bottom half of the Pac 10 sucks pretty bad.

well if thats evidence about ole miss and their offense but allowing tech to score 34 on them which florida did not do... then im even more confident our offense will blow floridas defense out of the water... pun intended gators

[landrun]

ok I'll try to make this as monosyllabic as I can for you. Since it seems to be the absolute point you continually avoid.

Vanderbilt 16 points (one TD by defense)
South Carolina: 10 points
Alabama: 17 points

Conversely
LSU 38 (GT turned the ball over 3x inside their own 20)
Georgia 24
Kentucky 25 (one TD via special teams)
Ole Miss 47 (multiple defensive/special teams scores)

Your argument is that Big-12 D is still suspect in your mind. My return argument is that SEC O is still suspect as well, therefore this entire argument is a push. In the games where an SEC team scored over 20 points the fact that it took special teams/defensive scores (or majorly short fields in LSU's case, although we can't rule out the onside kick that they got after going up 14-3) to push SEC teams past that barrier. Without defensive/special teams scores the offensive outputs from the teams that aren't considered to be the only teams in the conference with any offensive capability (LSU, Georgia, Ole Miss, Fla) can't even muster 3 touchdowns on non SEC competition. Therefore, the counter argument that you continue to ignore that SEC offenses are bad, continues to be valid. Which in turn lends credence to the fact that part of the current 'myth' of SEC defenses being absolutely dominant is in part due to the fact that the offenses for the most part are equally bad.

Oh, and I would hardly call going 1-7 against the MWC a "middling record" by the Pac-10 this season.

Actually, I think you're both sort of missing the point.

The question isn't about Big XII's defense and SEC's offenses.
The question is Big XII offenses and SEC's defenses.

The bowls have shown that the Big XII offenses will score on anyone no matter what conference they play. The Big XII offenses are legit no matter how poor their defenses are.

The SEC defenses have been beat down in Bowl games though. Playing outside their own conference, almost half of their bowl games have produced the worst defensive performance from the SEC team's defense all year.

In short, Big XII offenses are as good as advertised and SEC defenses simply are not.

[Scott D]

Actually, I think you're both sort of missing the point.

The question isn't about Big XII's defense and SEC's offenses.
The question is Big XII offenses and SEC's defenses.

The bowls have shown that the Big XII offenses will score on anyone no matter what conference they play. The Big XII offenses are legit no matter how poor their defenses are.

The SEC defenses have been beat down in Bowl games though. Playing outside their own conference, almost half of their bowl games have produced the worst defensive performance from the SEC team's defense all year.

In short, Big XII offenses are as good as advertised and SEC defenses simply are not.

nobody's missing anything landrun.

L-Boy's inference is that Big XII offensive numbers are bloated by porous defenses. My counter is that SEC defensive numbers are similarly bloated to the "better" by inept offenses.

The product that has come so far in bowl season has shown that Big XII defenses are slightly better than they appeared during the season, and that SEC offenses are for the most part as bad as they appeared to be during the season.

But to be fair, since 8 out of 12 teams in the SEC are still playing the 1960 style of offense, it's no surprise that their quarterback play is lacking. The 4 SEC teams that are in the modern era of offense, are the ones that have the ability to score on a consistent basis.

[The Maestro]

Good Will Hunting finds this thread tiresome.

Along with all Gayterd threads mentioning YPC and their Total D numbers against the likes of Vandy, Cocks, Arky's reject with the whorns reject QB, LS-No Perriloux, The Ohio State Citadel, K.Y., Lou Holtz's ESPN backup's team, Miamuh, the oldest retarded Bowden and whoever else helped this team think more highly of itself than Utah.

Thursday really needs to frickin' hurry!!!!

[L-Boy]

nobody's missing anything landrun.

L-Boy's inference is that Big XII offensive numbers are bloated by porous defenses. My counter is that SEC defensive numbers are similarly bloated to the "better" by inept offenses.

The product that has come so far in bowl season has shown that Big XII defenses are slightly better than they appeared during the season, and that SEC offenses are for the most part as bad as they appeared to be during the season.

But to be fair, since 8 out of 12 teams in the SEC are still playing the 1960 style of offense, it's no surprise that their quarterback play is lacking. The 4 SEC teams that are in the modern era of offense, are the ones that have the ability to score on a consistent basis.


Well, maybe we are at least starting to approach convergence. Are the SEC offenses "inept"?? Don't know if I'd go that far, but outside of FL there isn't a whole lot to write home about.

However, I am seeing an interesting counter argument emerging - and admisstion that OKst and TT defenses are bad, but look at the rest of the conference and well they have done in bowl games!!!!

Mighty Missouri victory over NW - MO gave up over 400 yds of offense to NW. NW had the ball 35 minutes. NW offense averaged about 360 yds in the reg season. I hardly call this a big Big 12 D bragging point.

Kansas beats Golden Gophers. The Golden Gophers, are you kidding me?? They were 7-6 and 3-5 in the mighty Big 10.

Nebr over Clemson - I'll give you this one. While NB has been fairly porous most of the year, and Clemson by no means an offensive powerhouse, NB did pretty much shut down Clemson.

All 3 teams deserve props for their respective W's, a win is a win, but holding those 3 games up as a case for redemption of Big 12 D is well.....let's just say interesting.

Finally, again, the TT win and the Okie St win were really the games that vaunted OU in the limelight, and I think we have agreed that the defenses suck with those 2 programs. However, while completely off-point on the subject of this thread, Big 12 D, - I will concede that Bama's performance yesterday greatly diminished UF's so called marquee win.

[OU_Sooners75]

From what I have seen of the D's of OU, Okie St, TT, MO and somewhat UT, both on TV and from scores and stats, they are not exactly lighting the world on fire. Do I closely follow the rest of the Big 12 bottom half? No.

Really, OU made it to the national limelight by putting up 60 pts 5 weeks in a row. It crowning jewels were laying 60 on TT and Okie St. Those are the reasons people put them ahead of UT, to whom they lost early in the season.

All I am saying is from what I have seen, from the Reg season, a few bowl games, and from the stats and scores, that the upper crust of the Big 12's D is soft. I think your argument is partially that TT and OSU's D sucks, but OU's is better. Maybe, but looking at stats and scores the difference is not huge, and the fact that TX and OSU scored over 40 to me says OU's defense is vunerable.

I have said it about 6 times in this thread - but the message is not getting across. I am not saying the SEC D is particularly strong - South Carolina and Bama clearly stunk it up, and some other OOC performances have been suspect. Are these defenses better than the Big 12's, I argue yes, but that is my opinion, feel free to disagree.

Lets get real here tool boy....

1. Florida was #10 with four weeks left in the regular season. They beat a very overrated LSU and jumped. They beat a very overrated Georgia team and jumped into the top 5. The beat Bama and jumped into the NCG. Count your blessings that the media was sucking Tebow and the rest of the Gators.
2. Oklahoma never fell below #6 in the BCS. Teams lost in front of them at the right time. OU won the games they needed to to make the NCG. Just like Florida. However, the Media Bias showed up moreso for Florida than anyone else the last 1/3 of the season.
3. You might want to take some time and actually, a) watch replay videos of Oklahoma's games. or b) at least take a gander at the box scores and play by plays.
4. OU is not okie state, Texas, Texas Tech, or anyone else. WE ARE OU! We are a ballhawking defense. We have made the plays when needed. Our players are in the right position because they play disciplined football. We are not the best defense. But if you think Florida is going to have a hayday on offense, you may want to relook at what type of offenses play right into the hands of Oklahoma's defense. And Florida plays that type of offense!
5. What other teams have done in their bowl games do not reflect on what OU and Florida does in this game. If that is the case, it looks worse for Florida moreso than Oklahoma.

[L-Boy]

Lets get real here tool boy....

1. Florida was #10 with four weeks left in the regular season. They beat a very overrated LSU and jumped. They beat a very overrated Georgia team and jumped into the top 5. The beat Bama and jumped into the NCG. Count your blessings that the media was sucking Tebow and the rest of the Gators.

Not really relevant to the thread topic of Big 12 D, but I agree UF got some positive pub by beating some teams that turned out to be overrated. The same can be said for OU (TT, Okie St, MO - twice). You seem to be inferring though that UF is "lucky" to be there, ie they don't deserve to be there. Then who should? Are you calling for a rematch with TX?


2. Oklahoma never fell below #6 in the BCS. Teams lost in front of them at the right time. OU won the games they needed to to make the NCG. Just like Florida. However, the Media Bias showed up moreso for Florida than anyone else the last 1/3 of the season.

Ehhh...not buying it. The media liked your butt whipping of defenseless and overrated TT and Okie State to put you in the Big 12 over TX whom you lost to, and by default the MNC game (and no I am NOT saying TX should be there)



3. You might want to take some time and actually, a) watch replay videos of Oklahoma's games. or b) at least take a gander at the box scores and play by plays.

4. OU is not okie state, Texas, Texas Tech, or anyone else. WE ARE OU! We are a ballhawking defense. We have made the plays when needed. Our players are in the right position because they play disciplined football. We are not the best defense. But if you think Florida is going to have a hayday on offense, you may want to relook at what type of offenses play right into the hands of Oklahoma's defense. And Florida plays that type of offense!


So when other Big 12 defenses are giving up yards and points, it may be due to weakness, but when OU gives up 45 to TX and 41 to Okie St, itz cuz their "ball hawking". Duly noted. And FL plays a type of offense that will "play right into the hands of Oklahoma's defense". Right. Again, just like TX and OSU did,


5. What other teams have done in their bowl games do not reflect on what OU and Florida does in this game. If that is the case, it looks worse for Florida moreso than Oklahoma.

I will agree with the 1st sentence, at least to a point. Again, the thread was about defense, so I am not trying to make a case for SEC - D or anything else for that matter.

[Vaevictis]

So when other Big 12 defenses are giving up yards and points, it may be due to weakness, but when OU gives up 45 to TX and 41 to Okie St, itz cuz their "ball hawking".

Just for the record, the defensive performance against Texas was a bit of an aberration. If you look at what happened prior to Reynolds out and compared it to what happened after, and what we did for the MLB position for the next game or two, and the success of the subsequent adjustments, it's pretty clear our coaches really had no idea what to do when he went out.

Somebody on the coaching staff appears to have really ****ed up and not properly prepared for that contingency.

(Not saying that the outcome of the game would have been different, just that reading the results of the Texas game is a little more complicated than just looking at the points given up, and that I expect that the coaches won't make that mistake twice. On the other hand, I may be too optimistic -- was it the OSU game where Box went out? I forget.)

[OU_Sooners75]

Not really relevant to the thread topic of Big 12 D, but I agree UF got some positive pub by beating some teams that turned out to be overrated. The same can be said for OU (TT, Okie St, MO - twice). You seem to be inferring though that UF is "lucky" to be there, ie they don't deserve to be there. Then who should? Are you calling for a rematch with TX?
When did OU play agaisnt Missouri twice this year? Florida is very lucky to be there. They deserve to be there. But they are very lucky that they are the media darlings this season.
You want to use the Texas loss as a pedestal for OU. What about that Ole Miss loss for Florida?

Teams I think should be ahead of Florida in the rankings....Texas, USC, and Utah. But that is not saying that Florida doesn't deserves the shot. This is exactly why we should have a playoff.


Ehhh...not buying it. The media liked your butt whipping of defenseless and overrated TT and Okie State to put you in the Big 12 over TX whom you lost to, and by default the MNC game (and no I am NOT saying TX should be there)
You really need to learn what you speak (post). 1. OU was ranked lower than Texas in both Human polls. It was the unbiased computer polls that got OU in the Conference Title game. It was not until after we drummed Missouri that OU jumped Texas in the human polls. In fact those same computers are the only reason we are #1 in the BCS, because Florida is #1 in the human polls.


So when other Big 12 defenses are giving up yards and points, it may be due to weakness, but when OU gives up 45 to TX and 41 to Okie St, itz cuz their "ball hawking". Duly noted. And FL plays a type of offense that will "play right into the hands of Oklahoma's defense". Right. Again, just like TX and OSU did,

LOL. It is obvious that you are about as stupid as a box of rocks.
1. OU leads the nation in Turnover margin.
2. The Texas game was the second weekend of October...a week after Florida lost to Ole Miss at HOME!


I will agree with the 1st sentence, at least to a point. Again, the thread was about defense, so I am not trying to make a case for SEC - D or anything else for that matter.

You are the dumb**** trying to talk about SEC SEC SEC! This is about defense and the entire game. If you honestly think OU's defense is soft, you will be very surprised when OU is up 21 points before you even knew that they had the ball!

[PDXsooner]

This is getting pretty gay pretty fast. Bottom line, it won't be an SEC all-star vs. A Big 12 all-star team.

It is OU vs. Fla. Other teams in the conference are bumps in the road. They do not and will not ever define us.

[L-Boy]

When did OU play agaisnt Missouri twice this year? Florida is very lucky to be there. They deserve to be there. But they are very lucky that they are the media darlings this season.
You want to use the Texas loss as a pedestal for OU. What about that Ole Miss loss for Florida?

My bad on MO. I keep thinking OK played MO regular season, but I am thinking of TX. Flogging duly deserved on that point. I will agree there is some luck in being chosen in the top 2 when multiple teams have a claim. However, UF ended up in the BCS computer polls, so the "luck" argument only applies vs TX, and I think there is a valid hesistation by voters to put two teams from the same conference in the BCS championship and pit them in a rematch. My only point on the TX loss is that TX is probably the team most like FL and the D was not exactly stellar. Again, I am talking about the D, not dogging OU for losing.


Teams I think should be ahead of Florida in the rankings....Texas, USC, and Utah. But that is not saying that Florida doesn't deserves the shot. This is exactly why we should have a playoff.

You can say that because that is your opinion, and there is no way at this point to prove you right or wrong, and I agree a playoff would help. But objectively, I addressed the pitfalls of a conference rematch above. USC may or may not be as good or better than TX or OU, but their schedule is weaker. I don't think anybody going in thought Utah was quite at the OU / UF level going in - now maybe they are. Given what was known at the time, I think UF / OU was the logical selection, and nothing since has significantly changed that.

I will say that while not perfect, the best objective measure of a team's standing I have seen this year is the Sagarin predictor, and it has UF#1, USC#2 and OK#3.



You really need to learn what you speak (post). 1. OU was ranked lower than Texas in both Human polls. It was the unbiased computer polls that got OU in the Conference Title game. It was not until after we drummed Missouri that OU jumped Texas in the human polls. In fact those same computers are the only reason we are #1 in the BCS, because Florida is #1 in the human polls.

Technically, you are correct, and believe it or not (I suspect not) I actually knew when I posted this argument that someone could state your valid counterargument - so kudos to catching that. In actuality, OK was ahead the week prior in both human polls, but behind in the computers. A few activitist voters tried to take the matter in their own hands the next week, and put TX 6 votes ahead in the Harris but OU was still one vote ahead in the Coaches - so it was split. The computers gave OU a very slight edge. So yes, OU was ever so slightly behind in the human - effectively it was almost a tie, and slightly ahead in the computers. The reason I went ahead and said what I did was that enough voters did not buy into the TX argument to swing it and left it virtually a tie from the human poll perspective.

However, I would have made the same counter argument that you just did, so good show.



LOL. It is obvious that you are about as stupid as a box of rocks.
1. OU leads the nation in Turnover margin.
2. The Texas game was the second weekend of October...a week after Florida lost to Ole Miss at HOME!

Thanks for the box of rocks comparison -

Turnover margin. True. Actually UF is only one behind, but that is not your point. Your point being that by actively pursuing turnovers you may give up some defensive yd stats. I will give you that, fair enough. However, if you are looking at point scored, that should be taken into account, and it did not change the fact that OU gave up 45 against TX and 41 against Okie St.

October - This would imply that the OU D has gotten better since. I am not sure I see tangible evidence of that - but I'll take yours and others word that the loss of a key LB made a difference vs TX. Okie St was much later in season.

If UF loses the turnover margin battle (by more than 1) to OU, then yes, I think they lose.



You are the dumb**** trying to talk about SEC SEC SEC! This is about defense and the entire game. If you honestly think OU's defense is soft, you will be very surprised when OU is up 21 points before you even knew that they had the ball!

Thanks again for the compliment. Actually, you may have confused me with others, I have NOT been on here actively pimping the SEC this year. I have said multiple times this year that it is a down year for them as evidenced by some of their OOC play. As to your last sentence, let's just say I respectfully disagree.

[L-Boy]

Just for the record, the defensive performance against Texas was a bit of an aberration. If you look at what happened prior to Reynolds out and compared it to what happened after, and what we did for the MLB position for the next game or two, and the success of the subsequent adjustments, it's pretty clear our coaches really had no idea what to do when he went out.

Somebody on the coaching staff appears to have really ****ed up and not properly prepared for that contingency.

(Not saying that the outcome of the game would have been different, just that reading the results of the Texas game is a little more complicated than just looking at the points given up, and that I expect that the coaches won't make that mistake twice. On the other hand, I may be too optimistic -- was it the OSU game where Box went out? I forget.)


I am not sure I fully buy it was an abberation, but I will give you that a loss of a key player can make a material difference. If Spikes were out for UF, that would make a difference. If Harvin were healthy vs Bama, I think we beat up Bama worse than we did. I think the fact that Bama's line was banged up or out vs and reshuffled vs Utah clearly made a difference, but I don't offer that up as an excuse at all. I am not convinced Bama wins vs. Utah anyay.

[Scott D]

Spikes being out for you is probably the closest indicator of what the Reynolds injury meant at the time it happened. Especially if it was obvious when watching the injury happen that it was a season ending injury.

[Dan Thompson]

Now, if the SAMWOW guy come on here and said FU will win, then I would be worried.

[hobbes2702]

As a Horn I couldn't care less whether or not the Big12 does well in their bowl games. The only fans who care if the conference is good are fans of schools like Tech and Okie lite. We all know that if a Texas or an OU go undefeated that they will be playing for a MNC so we don't need the conference to back us up. The SEC knows they need their conference to be good because if Florida or Bama don't win it then someone might get to play for the MNC

[L-Boy]

As a Horn I couldn't care less whether or not the Big12 does well in their bowl games. The only fans who care if the conference is good are fans of schools like Tech and Okie lite. We all know that if a Texas or an OU go undefeated that they will be playing for a MNC so we don't need the conference to back us up. The SEC knows they need their conference to be good because if Florida or Bama don't win it then someone might get to play for the MNC


Uhhh.....

The rules aren't any different for the Big 12. If you are one of the majors in the Big 12 or SEC, and go undefeated, its highly like you go to the BCS championship - the exception being Auburn a few years ago, and in retrospect Auburn should have went, but Auburn had a fairly soft OOC schedule as I recall.

Add LSU to your list of schools above.

Most likely, even the top team won't go undefeated, so your conference SOS does make a difference. And while most UF fans have little love for GA, Bama, LSU, etc, in general we would rather see those programs win for conference pride and bragging rights, although we won't cry a river of tears if they don't win.

[NCAAISAJOKE]

Almost every SEC Team is ranked ahead of OU and Texas in total defense, even the sorry teams!!! Tenn is ranked fourth in Defense for god sake. They went 5-7. They arent even in a damn bowl and lost to UCLA. South Carolina is ranked 12 and they got butt raped by Iowa. Kentuky is ranked somewhere in the 30's and struggled to beat east carolina. Hell Vandy is ranked in the 30's. Ole Miss is ranked 14 and got almost 500 yards hung on them. Alabama was ranked #1 in defense and it looked like it should have been Utah. What does this say???? Texas is ranked 50 and OU is ranked 63. I am not drinking the Koolaid. No way does every single SEC team play better defense then OU and Texas.

[MojoRisen]

Hell no, if you throw the ball 50 times in a catch up game you are bound to give up yards.

I am pretty sure OU and even Texas know how to stop the run... How many blow outs have we had this year???? Yards mean dic , as long as we are in a comfortable way...

[NCAAISAJOKE]

Basically all these SEC teams are ranked high due to the terrible offenses! Bama being a great example. They had 208 yds!!!!! 3pts in the 1st half and 7 in the 2nd. South Carolina managed 10 pts. Georgia struggled to get to 24pts. LSU looked great with a new QB running the show. With the other guy, not so great throughout the year. Ole miss is ranked 14 and gave up almost 500 yds to TT. OU is ranked 63 and gave up less then 400. Just sayin. Texas and OU defenses are more talented then they are getting credit for.

[MojoRisen]

Ole miss stats are blown to shiate in a game they won in a pretty well way...

[FirstandGoal]

Ole miss stats are blown to shiate in a game they won in a pretty well way...

Sound familiar?

[NCAAISAJOKE]

Ole miss stats are blown to shiate in a game they won in a pretty well way...

LMAO!!!!!! I guess that OU's Stats in that game are blown to shiate in a game against tech that they won 62-21 moron!! Nice try though

[NCAAISAJOKE]

Ole miss stats are blown to shiate in a game they won in a pretty well way...

I guess that would explain why OU's defensive stats are blown to shiate due to the fact they won all their games except texas in a prety well way:)

[MojoRisen]

It's clear to me, as a fan.. These are kids and sometimes teams come out tight because of the media- powerful as it is in the free world- it can really be ran by a bunch of number crunching Phans - who really can't compute victory..

Lather up boys and make sure the OU nation is happier than pigs eatin ****!

All the stats point to a game in which we can manage in a rock solid way.

[Vaevictis]

I am not sure I fully buy it was an abberation, but I will give you that a loss of a key player can make a material difference. If Spikes were out for UF, that would make a difference. If Harvin were healthy vs Bama, I think we beat up Bama worse than we did. I think the fact that Bama's line was banged up or out vs and reshuffled vs Utah clearly made a difference, but I don't offer that up as an excuse at all. I am not convinced Bama wins vs. Utah anyay.

The difference between the Harvin and Bama's line scenarios and ours is that, if I recall correctly, both Florida and Bama knew that they would be without the players and had time to adjust before the game.

In our case, it happened in the game, and it was pretty clear both during the game and after the game that our coaches really just had no idea what the hell to do when Reynolds went out.

I don't think Reynolds going out is an aberration. I do think that the coaches not having given any thought at all to the possibility -- as seems to be evident from their total lack of a contingency plan -- is. Or **** me, it ought to be. That should never happen.

[Jason White's Third Knee]

TT was in a 3-way tie for the Big XII South? Hmm. I thought that they didn't count.

[NCAAISAJOKE]

LMAO!!!!!! I guess that OU's Stats in that game are blown to shiate in a game against tech that they won 62-21 moron!! Nice try though

I mean 65-21.... Sorry, brain fart

[MojoRisen]

No doubt, preparation in a program like OU should have preparation should someone go down.

That was our field, locker room general... Take out a general with out being able to replace him in a battle is with out a doubt a tough job.... To cry

Reynolds was a boy man with his ability to run the defense on the field and in the huddle & locker room.

Our boys have had the opportunity to gel together since, and Leaders have emerged and styles have evolved...

As an old wanta be player - we used to say in prayer - Please let us play to the best of our abilities and I hope no-one gets hurt. Either side of the ball

Well mild concusion to Tebow - not much to ask for .... given the hits he will take at our best level..

[OU_Sooners75]

Thanks for the box of rocks comparison -

Turnover margin. True. Actually UF is only one behind, but that is not your point. Your point being that by actively pursuing turnovers you may give up some defensive yd stats. I will give you that, fair enough. However, if you are looking at point scored, that should be taken into account, and it did not change the fact that OU gave up 45 against TX and 41 against Okie St.

October - This would imply that the OU D has gotten better since. I am not sure I see tangible evidence of that - but I'll take yours and others word that the loss of a key LB made a difference vs TX. Okie St was much later in season.

If UF loses the turnover margin battle (by more than 1) to OU, then yes, I think they lose.

1. The loss of a butkus award semifinalist was very important during the OU/Texas game. In fact before losing him in that game, OU was dominating the game and had the lead. Afterwards, Texas gained most of their yards and points.
2. OU's defense has been very solid and has improved a lot since that game, well actually the KU game the week after. If you actually look at the play by plays box scores, you would see that 90% of the points scored against OU (outside of the OSU game) came in garbage time.
3. The OSU game....you really need to go back and search the history of this rivalry. Used to be OSu didn't care if they went 1-10, as long as that one win was against OU. And the mentality of that is still there. Though they want to win more games today. OU has always struggled against Okie Lite in Stoolwater.
Oklahoma vs. Oklahoma State Scores (http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/big12/oklahoma/opponents_records.php?teamid=2393)
5. Florida has commented on after losing to Ole Miss that they would work harder and play better. I think they met that goal. But I suppose it is impossible for another team, like Oklahoma, to strive to do the same?

[OU_Sooners75]

LMAO!!!!!! I guess that OU's Stats in that game are blown to shiate in a game against tech that they won 62-21 moron!! Nice try though

Why are you calling someone a moron when you do not even know the score of the game you are talking about?

the Score was 65-21.

Also, do not come on here as a noob and start flinging insults.

[Cam]

However, if you are looking at point scored, that should be taken into account, and it did not change the fact that OU gave up 45 against TX and 41 against Okie St.

You do know that not all of those points were scored on OU's D, right? You also know that OU's O only lost 1 fumble this year, right? The 2nd was an on-side kick that we didn't recover that was credited to the Offense.

My point is this, if you just look at nothing but box scores, you're missing half the equation. You really need to actually watch the games before you try to break down/compare an opponent.

Watching the games, in their entirety will also allow you to see how many points were scored in absolute garbage time with less than 1-2 minutes left in the game. Seriously, take a look.