Minority football coaches

[badger]

Yes, it's really still a long ways until our bowl game, so this is a filler topic.


A few thoughts:

1- Would you all approve of new initiatives to give minorities more chances at college and pro coaching jobs? These include an additional graduate assistant position reserved for minority players, a "Rooney Rule" requiring teams to interview minority candidates for open coaching positions (both for head and assistant jobs?), etc.

2- Does minority hiring in college and pro football improve recruiting (or in pros, player free agency signing), encourage fans to buy tickets/alumni donors to donate or improve the image of a university/franchise?

3- Why is there such an emphasis on BLACK coaches over minority coaches? I ask on behalf of this guy right here:
http://sports.espn.go.com/photo/2007/1208/ncf_a_niumatalolo_200.jpg
Ken Niumatalolo, Navy's head football coach, is Samoan, much like quite a few key players in the Pac-10 region.

I bring up this topic not only because it's about 10 days until our own game, but because I see a lot of our former players that have potential coaching abilities in them, but not sure it's something they would ever pursue - guys like Paul Thompson and Q were great leaders and role models for our teams and players, but will they ever coach? Would the same path that Josh Heupel took to become OU's qb coach, or the path Cale Gundy took to become OU's rb coach be open to them also, or do additional steps need to be taken?

There are fewer and fewer opportunities out there for players to play football after college (Arena's defunct in 2009, NFL Europe's gone, that other league never materialized). Why not open additional opportunities for coaching?

[olevetonahill]

I dont Care if they Be purple , If they can Walk they should Be able to Talk .

[MojoRisen]

The bottom line is they need more Black coaches taking GA positions and Assistant positions. So I really would not have a problem with more coaches in the pipeline but not at the cost of fair competition for those positions. Clearly if there were more Assistant Black coaches who were ready for Head Coaching Jobs it would resinate better - than having a Black coach who may not be ready for a HC job and fail miserably and have to get fired.

This discussion - too me is not a sign of racism but more a sign of lack of proven success.

They need more coaches and more candidates that are qualified before they scream racism..

Turner Gill should have gotton the Syracuse Job - if he was such a stud interviewer - I think he is clearly a solid coach - but Buffalo to Auburn is a pretty large jump up in budget management.

[badger]

I know that through their extensive ad campaign this season that NCAA student-athletes go pro in things other than sports, but still... limited pro opportunities to play means that perhaps players should be encouraged to become pro in coaching instead.

I love all of our top coaches and I'm sure I would love the others if I knew them too, and they just happen to represent black (Jeff Capel), Hispanic (Santiago Restrepo), women (Sherri Coale) and whites too (Stoops, Williams, etc). I think they all do a wonderful job as coaches, regardless of their backgrounds and heritage.

Still... I think it's worth discussing because everyone else is.

[MojoRisen]

I don't think we have to force the hand of fair compitition to encourage Black Athletes to take up coaching as a full time job. You have to put your time in and let's face it - a GA's life with today's inflation is not so attractive when a lot of these guys can go out and make 75K right out of college. The GA's work all night long sometimes and make a lot less.

I could be wrong but I do not think there is anything that is preventing more blacks from getting into coaching.

I honestly believe that the pipeline has to be filled before they can just jump to the top of a profession that takes years to master.

Meaning bottom up - not top down...

[olevetonahill]

Boo Blake
Nuff said
This is 2008 . Race has nothing to do with anything .
Can Ya do the Job ? Yer Hired .

[SoonerLB]

Boo Blake
Nuff said
This is 2008 . Race has nothing to do with anything .
Can Ya do the Job ? Yer Hired .

EXACTLY!!!

[Leroy Lizard]

1- Would you all approve of new initiatives to give minorities more chances at college and pro coaching jobs? These include an additional graduate assistant position reserved for minority players, a "Rooney Rule" requiring teams to interview minority candidates for open coaching positions (both for head and assistant jobs?), etc.

You don't create an "additional position." That is just a euphemism for affirmative action. Some guy is not going to get a an available GA position because he's white.


2- Does minority hiring in college and pro football improve recruiting (or in pros, player free agency signing), encourage fans to buy tickets/alumni donors to donate or improve the image of a university/franchise?

No. Not that I can tell. Winning is what improves recruiting and ticket sales.

[badger]

You don't create an "additional position." That is just a euphemism for affirmative action. Some guy is not going to get a an available GA position because he's white.
I think colleges right now are allowed two GA's. Creating an additional position would involve increasing that number to three, so long as the third is a minority. Thus, the same opportunity is there for all, plus an additional opportunity for a minority candidate. This is not my idea, just one I read after a Charles Barkley rant article.


No. Not that I can tell. Winning is what improves recruiting and ticket sales.

John Blake was a good recruiter, but I'm not sure if players chose OU because he was black or because it was OU. It seems like players, when torn between Kansas and KSU, or Miami and Florida or Florida State, or Mississippi State and Mississippi, often chosen the non-black coach school (yes, I know that sounds weird, but for lack of a better term). That's why Kansas and Mississippi are bowling now with top recruits, while Ron Prince and Sylvester Croom are out of jobs.

[SoonerStormchaser]

Hey, if we get celebrities from Star Wars like this coaching in the Big XII ;):
http://webpages.charter.net/mactartan/Marc/safefromcupcakes.jpg

then I'm all for more minorities coaching...

[Mark_in_Tulsa]

Who has been the most successful non-white coach?

[MojoRisen]

That guy from Grambling is the most sucessful coach I think period... Al biet in FCS...

[badger]

Who has been the most successful non-white coach?

In any sport? John Thompson at Georgetown (not the current one, but his daddy)

In football? I know the Bucs fired him, but Tony Dungy sure looks good now that he's got an offense to go with his defense!

In college football? Jury's out. I'd rather wait until these guys are near the end of their careers before passing judgement.

[tommieharris91]

John Blake was a good recruiter, but I'm not sure if players chose OU because he was black or because it was OU. It seems like players, when torn between Kansas and KSU, or Miami and Florida or Florida State, or Mississippi State and Mississippi, often chosen the non-black coach school (yes, I know that sounds weird, but for lack of a better term). That's why Kansas and Mississippi are bowling now with top recruits, while Ron Prince and Sylvester Croom are out of jobs.

Maybe it's because Croom and Prince were bad creating schemes to beat other teams week in and week out.

[Curly Bill]

Anybody see the end of the Miami game? Randy Shannon set black coaches back about 20 years.

It is my belief that with the pressure at schools to win these days from fans, alumni, donors and such, that they (Auburn excluded) will hire the best coaches they can regardless of skin color.

...and on another note I'll worry more about the lack of minority coaches when we start equally worrying about the lack of white tailbacks.

[Curly Bill]

Who has been the most successful non-white coach?

Lenny Wilkins.

...and yup I know he's a B-ball coach.

[Frozen Sooner]

Who has been the most successful non-white coach?

Duh.

Bear Bryant.

[OUMallen]

Anybody see the end of the Miami game? Randy Shannon set black coaches back about 20 years.



Oh gosh, what did he do??



It is my belief that with the pressure at schools to win these days from fans, alumni, donors and such, that they (Auburn excluded) will hire the best coaches they can regardless of skin color.


I agree with this. There's too much money on the line, too much pressure, for schools to intentionally decrease their winning chances. In fact, the logic dictates the OPPOSITE, that schools will be willing to take bigger chances to succeed.


Not to mention, and it's almost taboo to say this, but hoenstly, like Vet said, it's 2008. Racism really isn't quite so rampant and pervasive as it once was. I don't think there is much of a problem here.

No one has a problem with the overrepresentation of black athletes compared to every other race. Why not?? They're adults getting a financial benefit from a public institution. Should we require schools to give out scholarships to more white running backs to get them back to the regional demographic? Of course not. PLayers = merit based. Coaches are, right now, also merit based. Why are we wanting to change that?


We have a bad assumption here: that there is a demographically analagous-sized pool of capable black head coaching candidates from which schools may hire. There isn't. Do we want to fix this? It's not by forcing the hiring and subsequent firing of black (or other minority) coaches. The reasons for this are probably social at the grassroots level. Can't fix it at the top.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I wouldn't want to be interviewed for a job just because I am a minority...

and I m assuming that by minority, that you mean black, because nobody cares there isn't any Chinese coaches..

Maybe I should start the Native American Coaches Association

[OUMallen]

and I m assuming that by minority, that you mean black, because nobody cares there isn't any Chinese coaches..



Yup. I mean, Dat Nguyen is probably an inspiration to thousands of Vietnamese football playing children everywhere, but no one seems to give a crap about the underrepresentation of asians.

This thread seems to be heading someplace dark and negative.


Anyone care to tell me what Randy Shannon did?

[stoops the eternal pimp]

you had to watch the game..some really dumb decisions, especially down the stretch..Yes as someone pointed out in another thread, he was working with a true frosh at qb, but still..some terrible decisions with 2 minutes left down 7 with 1 timeout...running a draw play, calling his only timeout after an incomplete pass stopped the clock..just bad decisions

[Curly Bill]

STEP summed up the Randy Shannon dealio at the end of the game -- just poor poor game management. Looked like he'd never been in a close game. I was glad that Miami lost, but I kept saying to the TV: what the crap are you doing...well that and laughing at the ineptness.

[Leroy Lizard]

STEP summed up the Randy Shannon dealio at the end of the game -- just poor poor game management.

That's still an understatement. He made Boo Blake look like the second coming of Vince Lombardi.

I hope Miami kept the receipt.

[Curly Bill]

That's still an understatement. He made Boo Blake look like the second coming of Vince Lombardi.

I hope Miami kept the receipt.

They can't get rid of him, that would be racism. ;)

[Jack T.]

It is my belief that with the pressure at schools to win these days from fans, alumni, donors and such, that they (Auburn excluded) will hire the best coaches they can regardless of skin color.

...and on another note I'll worry more about the lack of minority coaches when we start equally worrying about the lack of white tailbacks.

Exactly. I'm pretty sure that a black, homosexual, transvestite *whatever* would have no problem getting a job anywhere in the country if he could win 10-11 games every year.

I just can't see regents saying "well, this guy can win us 11 games a year, but we're gonna hire this other guy who can win us 9 games each year because he's white".

[OUstud]

When we played Miami last year, I remember telling my dad that this guy is their John Blake. The way they shuttled their mediocre QBs in and out, dumb mistakes, etc...I give him one more year. NOT because he's black, but because he clearly isn't head coaching material, just like Kevin Steele (white) isn't.

[SCOUT]

Coaching is different from playing. Just because you can play the game doesn't mean that you can coach. The reverse is very true too.

Just because the majority of players in the NFL are African American doesn't mean that there should be s similar representation in the coaching ranks. If there is to be a quota mentality in professional sports, it should be representative of the US population. That is the standard that is forced upon businesses in the rest of the country. Should we have 60% white defensive backs, 14% Hispanics, 12% African Americans, 4% Asians and "Others" to fill out the numbers. It would be unfair to have it broken down any other way, right? Performance needs to be the deciding factor.

Look, sports is an extremely integrated industry and in many ways is ahead of the game. If a coach is capable of winning games they will get the job and race will have nothing to do with it. I understand the argument that minority coaches don't get the opportunities to prove themselves. That too has been addressed with the requirements to interview minority coaches as well as reality. When I say reality, I am referring to the fact that if a dwarf, African American with three feet could coach a team to the playoffs, he/she would have a job in the NFL forever.

[badger]

Barkley said one of the problems was that black coaches couldn't get good jobs in college football. Well, Miami's a good job! Oklahoma's a good job, Washington's a good job (the fans up there showed up despite the fact that almost all of them were like "please don't beat us too badly" when they saw an OU fan), Notre Dame's a good job... ehhhh.

I think we all want a minority coach that succeeds, because it makes us look really really good (Prentice Gautt is still one of OU's best stories to tell at halftime, which is comparable because that was back when it was tough to get minorities on the field). However, it's hard to fault us because we've had solid minority assistants and we have top minority coaches in other sports.