Florida the 3rd best D we will of faced.

[Mark_in_Tulsa]

Ok I took all the top defenses and figured out what they avg keeping the other team below their scoring avg.

In example USC has a pretty impressive avg of 17.6. So that means they avg keeping the other team 17.6 points below their scoring avg. Like if they had played us they would of kept us to 36.4 instead of 54.

Here is the top 11 teams counting only FBS games and not including bowl games.

17.6 USC
16.9 Boise State
16.7 TCU
14.22 Penn
14.07 tOSU
13.64 Texas
13.62 Iowa
13.25 Florida
11.56 Bama
9.30 OU
9.24 Texas Tech

TCU and Texas are both better than Florida. Not saying Florida defense phails, but that it is not the best D we have faced based on these stats.

Note 3 Big 10 schools, 2 SEC and 3 Big 12 in the top 11.
After the top 11 the numbers drop down quite a bit.

[soonercastor]

Interesting angle of view

[Readyfor8]

Our defense is top 10 in something... Crap I was really hoping we could have our defense show up for just this one game :rolleyes:

[Crucifax Autumn]

OUr defense will soon be top 1 in kicking gator azzz

[sooner59]

Our defense is top 10 in playing hard when they feel like it. In all fairness, if we discount 2nd string D and special teams, our 1st defense is probably as good as most. We just have to play like we have no chance of winning. That is when we usually play the best.

[Desert Sapper]

The SEC teams aren't up there, because you can't hold those teams to 10-15 points less than they score without shutting them all out.

[SoonerBacker]

I can't help but wonder what would happen to our defensive ratings in this sort of comparison if we could eliminate the points scored by other temas on kick returns. After all, those points aren't really on the D.

[ETGator1]

With the exception of Penn, I've seen every defense on the list. The only defense that is better than UF's is the USC defense which I think is the best in the nation this season.

[ETGator1]

I can't help but wonder what would happen to our defensive ratings in this sort of comparison if we could eliminate the points scored by other temas on kick returns. After all, those points aren't really on the D.

Have the Sooners given up many punt and kickoff returns for scores? Would the removal of the points scored by your opponents special teams shift the D points allowed numbers in relation to other teams?

[Iam4OUru]

The SEC teams aren't up there, because you can't hold those teams to 10-15 points less than they score without shutting them all out.


:eek: :pop: :P :) ;) :D

[DCGator]

Ok I took all the top defenses and figured out what they avg keeping the other team below their scoring avg.

In example USC has a pretty impressive avg of 17.6. So that means they avg keeping the other team 17.6 points below their scoring avg. Like if they had played us they would of kept us to 36.4 instead of 54.

Here is the top 11 teams counting only FBS games and not including bowl games.

17.6 USC
16.9 Boise State
16.7 TCU
14.22 Penn
14.07 tOSU
13.64 Texas
13.62 Iowa
13.25 Florida
11.56 Bama
9.30 OU
9.24 Texas Tech

TCU and Texas are both better than Florida. Not saying Florida defense phails, but that it is not the best D we have faced based on these stats.

Note 3 Big 10 schools, 2 SEC and 3 Big 12 in the top 11.
After the top 11 the numbers drop down quite a bit.

Help me out here, I think I got my numbers wrong. I have the OU D holding opponents an average of 7.53 points below their average.

Team Avg Against OU
Chatt 12.75 2
Cinn 27.31 26
Wash 13.25 14
TCU 33.62 10
Baylor 28 17
Texas 43.92 45
Kansas 32.67 31
K State 34.92 35
Neb 36.17 28
Tex A&M 25 28
TT 44.58 21
Ok St 41.58 41
Missou 43.15 21

Did I get these numbers wrong somewhere?

[SoonerAtKU]

He's counting only Bowl Subdivision opponents, so we leave out Chattanooga and the Citadel, etc.

[DCGator]

He's counting only Bowl Subdivision opponents, so we leave out Chattanooga and the Citadel, etc.

That still only puts OU at 7.26 points under the opponents avg.

[DCGator]

Ok I took all the top defenses and figured out what they avg keeping the other team below their scoring avg.

In example USC has a pretty impressive avg of 17.6. So that means they avg keeping the other team 17.6 points below their scoring avg. Like if they had played us they would of kept us to 36.4 instead of 54.

Here is the top 11 teams counting only FBS games and not including bowl games.

17.6 USC
16.9 Boise State
16.7 TCU
14.22 Penn
14.07 tOSU
13.64 Texas
13.62 Iowa
13.25 Florida
11.56 Bama
9.30 OU
9.24 Texas Tech

TCU and Texas are both better than Florida. Not saying Florida defense phails, but that it is not the best D we have faced based on these stats.

Note 3 Big 10 schools, 2 SEC and 3 Big 12 in the top 11.
After the top 11 the numbers drop down quite a bit.


A slightly different take,

Off the bat, I'd have to discount Boise State and TCU's numbers since those came against WAC and MWC opponents. Sorry if that is bias, but teams running up their avg scores against those conferences don't impress me.

Secondly, how many of these points came against 1st team Ds? I know UF had a stretch of 6 games with only 1 TD scored against the first team D. I didn't look too deep into the numbers to see when the points were scored, but just looking at the number of blowouts:

USC had 5 games where they scored under 30 pts (I do think USC has the best D in the country)
PSU had 3 games where they scored under 30 pts
TX had only 1 game where they scored under 30 pts
Iowa had 7 games where they scored under 30 pts
tOSU had 6 games where they scored under 30 pts

UF had no games where they scored under 30 pts
OU had no games where they scored under 30 pts

I'd have to say that USC, PSU, Iowa & tOSU played a lot more 1st team D than UF & OU.

Most likely TX, UF & OU were hurt by playing more 2nd/3rd team D late in games.

[Mark_in_Tulsa]

Help me out here, I think I got my numbers wrong. I have the OU D holding opponents an average of 7.53 points below their average.

Team Avg Against OU
Chatt 12.75 2
Cinn 27.31 26
Wash 13.25 14
TCU 33.62 10
Baylor 28 17
Texas 43.92 45
Kansas 32.67 31
K State 34.92 35
Neb 36.17 28
Tex A&M 25 28
TT 44.58 21
Ok St 41.58 41
Missou 43.15 21

Did I get these numbers wrong somewhere?

27.3
13.3
35
28
43.9
32.7
34.9
36.2
25
44.6
41.6
43.2

avg. = 33.80833333 Subtract 24.5 = 9.3
The 24.5 is the avg defensive score that OU gives up.
All of these stats I used come from http://www.cfbstats.com/

[Mark_in_Tulsa]

A slightly different take,

Off the bat, I'd have to discount Boise State and TCU's numbers since those came against WAC and MWC opponents. Sorry if that is bias, but teams running up their avg scores against those conferences don't impress me.

Secondly, how many of these points came against 1st team Ds? I know UF had a stretch of 6 games with only 1 TD scored against the first team D. I didn't look too deep into the numbers to see when the points were scored, but just looking at the number of blowouts:

USC had 5 games where they scored under 30 pts (I do think USC has the best D in the country)
PSU had 3 games where they scored under 30 pts
TX had only 1 game where they scored under 30 pts
Iowa had 7 games where they scored under 30 pts
tOSU had 6 games where they scored under 30 pts

UF had no games where they scored under 30 pts
OU had no games where they scored under 30 pts

I'd have to say that USC, PSU, Iowa & tOSU played a lot more 1st team D than UF & OU.

Most likely TX, UF & OU were hurt by playing more 2nd/3rd team D late in games.

Well if we are going to discount the teams that played in poor offensive conferences like TCU and Boise, then we will have to also remove Florida and Bama from that list, because they statistically played a weaker offensive schedule than anyone on that list.

[SPuL]

^true true.

really insightful thread. Good job.

Good to see our defense would get credit somewhere! lol


good stuff. +1

[Iam4OUru]

Using these stats, we win 40.75 - 35.90.

I'll take it! :D

[Desert Sapper]

Well if we are going to discount the teams that played in poor offensive conferences like TCU and Boise, then we will have to also remove Florida and Bama from that list, because they statistically played a weaker offensive schedule than anyone on that list.

:eek: You say it so much purtier n' me.

[swardboy]

So, as far as Tejas goes:
Overall, we're behind 16.4 to 16.8
Neutral site we're ahead 17 to 16.6
only 5 home/away games

[JLEW1818]

Honestly I think that OUr defense could do everything that the USC defense has done...... I think a lot of teams could........ People really need to realize that they play STANFORD, NOTRE DAME, and WASHINGTON, WASHINGTON STATE. ....... Put them in the big 12 and see .
So I guess I’m trying to say that a lot of defenses could be just as good as USC defensive, if they were in that ****ty conference
Yah usc might have some NFL talent on D, but a lot of teams could hold pac10 teams down. So I will not buy the usc defense being the best ever.

[cheezyq]

A slightly different take,

Off the bat, I'd have to discount Boise State and TCU's numbers since those came against WAC and MWC opponents. Sorry if that is bias, but teams running up their avg scores against those conferences don't impress me.


I like this take. Do you mind if I apply similar logic?

Hmm...since FU played Georgia and Ole Miss, let's get rid of them because they really didn't prove anything and lost when the chips counted. And I don't like LSU, I think they suck, so let's get rid of that one too. FSU always cheats, so they should be removed, and Miami's always into drugs and is pretty much just Cuba North, so they don't count, either.

Sorry if that's bias, but those teams just don't impress me.

[Jason White's Third Knee]

You wanna know what doesn't impress me?


Corn syrup. And that **** is in everything.


I am a hard ***, I know.

[Mark_in_Tulsa]

Honestly I think that OUr defense could do everything that the USC defense has done...... I think a lot of teams could........ People really need to realize that they play STANFORD, NOTRE DAME, and WASHINGTON, WASHINGTON STATE. ....... Put them in the big 12 and see .
So I guess I’m trying to say that a lot of defenses could be just as good as USC defensive, if they were in that ****ty conference
Yah usc might have some NFL talent on D, but a lot of teams could hold pac10 teams down. So I will not buy the usc defense being the best ever.

I agree somewhat. Here are some stats to back that up.

USC 24.4
Florida 26.05
OU 33.8

These are the avg. offenses score of the teams they faced.

So I was wrong when I said we should remove Florida and Bama from the list because they faced the easiest offenses on the list. It was actually USC then FL and Bama.

But it doesn't really matter. My original numbers show what they avg keeping their opponents below their scoring avg. Which I think is a better stat than just lowest defense scoring avg. This way it takes into account the strength of teams faced.

[JLEW1818]

Ya I agree with yah, I just think the usc defense gets too much credit from the media

[DCGator]

27.3
13.3
35
28
43.9
32.7
34.9
36.2
25
44.6
41.6
43.2

avg. = 33.80833333 Subtract 24.5 = 9.3
The 24.5 is the avg defensive score that OU gives up.
All of these stats I used come from http://www.cfbstats.com/

You didn’t use the correct statistical method.

Cincinnati: 1.31
Washington: -0.75
TCU: 23.62
Baylor: 11
Texas: -1.08
Kansas: 1.67
Kansas St: -0.08
Nebraska: 8.17
Texas A&M: -3
Texas Tech: 23.58
OK St.: 0.58
Missouri: 22.15

These are the number of points OU held each of these teams under their average points per game for the year. Negative means they scored over their average in the OU game. Averaging these numbers you get: 7.26 pts lower than their average.

[DCGator]

I like this take. Do you mind if I apply similar logic?

Hmm...since FU played Georgia and Ole Miss, let's get rid of them because they really didn't prove anything and lost when the chips counted. And I don't like LSU, I think they suck, so let's get rid of that one too. FSU always cheats, so they should be removed, and Miami's always into drugs and is pretty much just Cuba North, so they don't count, either.

Sorry if that's bias, but those teams just don't impress me.

I see. I'm surprised that you feel that OU doesn't belong in the title game. I would have thought you were one of the folks who thought OU is the best team in the country?:confused:

Using your logic, that conferences like the WAC and MWC play just as good of football as the BSC conferences, then the BCS Championship game should have obviously been featuring Utah vs Boise State, since they were both undefeated.

[DCGator]

I agree somewhat. Here are some stats to back that up.

USC 24.4
Florida 26.05
OU 33.8

These are the avg. offenses score of the teams they faced.

So I was wrong when I said we should remove Florida and Bama from the list because they faced the easiest offenses on the list. It was actually USC then FL and Bama.

But it doesn't really matter. My original numbers show what they avg keeping their opponents below their scoring avg. Which I think is a better stat than just lowest defense scoring avg. This way it takes into account the strength of teams faced.

By using the points a defense held a team under their average for the season, you take how bad the opponent was out of the equation. You are looking at how much worse our D made them look than all of the other teams they played for the year.

My point was that teams that are blowing out their opponents tend to put in the 2nd stringers late in the game, and their opponents score meaningless points in garbage time, and that TX, OU and UF fall into that category of blowing their opponents out.

[cheezyq]

I see. I'm surprised that you feel that OU doesn't belong in the title game. I would have thought you were one of the folks who thought OU is the best team in the country?:confused:

Using your logic, that conferences like the WAC and MWC play just as good of football as the BSC conferences, then the BCS Championship game should have obviously been featuring Utah vs Boise State, since they were both undefeated.

:rolleyes:

My point was that you just disregarded 2 teams not knowing anything about them, and simply because it benefited your argument. TCU plays just as good, or better, defense than anyone in the SEC, including Florida. TCU held Utah, Boise State, BYU, and even OU to numbers significantly lower than their averages. Even FU allowed the Citadel to score 19 points, and they're an FCS team.

That's the thing about you G8r and SEC fans. You casually dismiss teams from other conferences, not knowing anything about them...and here was your entire argument for doing so: "Sorry if that's bias, but those teams just don't impress me."

Sorry, but I don't respect your opinion enough to agree with your casual dismissal. All I saw was an arrogant fan saying, "Blah blah blah, those teams suck, blah blah blah, Florida is awesome."

[DCGator]

:rolleyes:

My point was that you just disregarded 2 teams not knowing anything about them, and simply because it benefited your argument. TCU plays just as good, or better, defense than anyone in the SEC, including Florida. TCU held Utah, Boise State, BYU, and even OU to numbers significantly lower than their averages. Even FU allowed the Citadel to score 19 points, and they're an FCS team.

That's the thing about you G8r and SEC fans. You casually dismiss teams from other conferences, not knowing anything about them...and here was your entire argument for doing so: "Sorry if that's bias, but those teams just don't impress me."

Sorry, but I don't respect your opinion enough to agree with your casual dismissal. All I saw was an arrogant fan saying, "Blah blah blah, those teams suck, blah blah blah, Florida is awesome."

It's tough having a normal football discussion with someone who resorts to childish name calling, like using "FU" instead of one of the normal references to the Gators, but I'll give it a shot.

I do know a bit about TCU, admittedly not a lot. I’ve seen two of their games this season. Their D is smallish, quick and disciplined, and likely very good. Of the two BCS teams they played, Stanford and OU, they held Stanford to 12.25 points under their season average, and held OU to 19 points under their season average. It looked to me that in the OU game, the Sooners jumped out to an early 28-3 lead and just cruised the rest of the way. If OU wanted to put their foot on the gas in the 2nd half, they could have put the score a lot closer to their season average. Against only two BCS teams, it is impossible to tell exactly how good the TCU D was. I think they were very good and likely top 10, but it’s impossible to know against the competition they faced. You may say some of those MWC teams had great offenses, but BYU looked pretty average against Arizona.

I had to throw them out of the comparison I was looking at, because with their schedule, it's comparing apples to oranges. Who knows what their D average would have been against a BCS schedule? Boise is similiar, there is no basis of comparison of stats. After watching TCU play, I think their defense would play tough, but would get run over by the larger BCS team offenses in the 4th quarter more frequently than they did in the MWC.

[cheezyq]

It's tough having a normal football discussion with someone who resorts to childish name calling, like using "FU" instead of one of the normal references to the Gators, but I'll give it a shot.

Only a child would be offended by that reference. Nanny nanny boo boo, so there. :rolleyes:


I do know a bit about TCU, admittedly not a lot. I’ve seen two of their games this season. Their D is smallish, quick and disciplined, and likely very good. Of the two BCS teams they played, Stanford and OU, they held Stanford to 12.25 points under their season average, and held OU to 19 points under their season average. It looked to me that in the OU game, the Sooners jumped out to an early 28-3 lead and just cruised the rest of the way. If OU wanted to put their foot on the gas in the 2nd half, they could have put the score a lot closer to their season average. Against only two BCS teams, it is impossible to tell exactly how good the TCU D was. I think they were very good and likely top 10, but it’s impossible to know against the competition they faced. You may say some of those MWC teams had great offenses, but BYU looked pretty average against Arizona.

...and BYU slaughtered UCLA, who beat Tennessee. Just because they're not a BCS school doesn't mean that you can just dismiss them. Just because they haven't played BCS schools doesn't mean you can dismiss them. How often do BCS teams schedule BCS schools OOC themselves? Does that mean we have to dismiss those teams, too? Alabama played a terrible OOC schedule. Does that mean we have to rule them out of any meaningful college football scenario?

By your logic above, it could be argued that the SEC played no good offenses and therefore all their defensive numbers have to be thrown out. We both know that's not the case. Utah and Boise State have proven in the past that non-BCS teams can compete with BCS teams. While they may not be superior to the top teams in the BCS conferences, they aren't ALWAYS cupcakes, either.


I had to throw them out of the comparison I was looking at, because with their schedule, it's comparing apples to oranges. Who knows what their D average would have been against a BCS schedule? Boise is similiar, there is no basis of comparison of stats. After watching TCU play, I think their defense would play tough, but would get run over by the larger BCS team offenses in the 4th quarter more frequently than they did in the MWC.

If this is the case, then you have to throw every team out of every comparison that doesn't involve direct head-to-head matchups. Therefore, the SEC defenses technically suck and should be disregarded, and the Big 12 offenses technically suck and should also be disregarded.

I agree somewhat with your assessment of OU/TCU, but you're missing one thing. OU COULD have put the hurt on TCU by keeping things mixed up, sure. But they decided to run out the clock by running the ball the rest of the 2nd half. However, they were unable to do so effectively. TCU stuffed the run continually in the 2nd half, knowing that we were trying to run it out. Given the size of our offensive line and their effectiveness at stopping the run, I'd hardly call them undersized and overmatched, especially on the defensive line.

They may not have the 1st tier athletes of USC, and they may very well not be quite the 2nd best defense in college football. But they're a very good defensive team, period. Any contradictory argument is just silly.

[Jason White's Third Knee]

Only a child would be offended by that reference. Nanny nanny boo boo, so there. :rolleyes:



...and BYU slaughtered UCLA, who beat Tennessee. Just because they're not a BCS school doesn't mean that you can just dismiss them. Just because they haven't played BCS schools doesn't mean you can dismiss them. How often do BCS teams schedule BCS schools OOC themselves? Does that mean we have to dismiss those teams, too? Alabama played a terrible OOC schedule. Does that mean we have to rule them out of any meaningful college football scenario?

By your logic above, it could be argued that the SEC played no good offenses and therefore all their defensive numbers have to be thrown out. We both know that's not the case. Utah and Boise State have proven in the past that non-BCS teams can compete with BCS teams. While they may not be superior to the top teams in the BCS conferences, they aren't ALWAYS cupcakes, either.



If this is the case, then you have to throw every team out of every comparison that doesn't involve direct head-to-head matchups. Therefore, the SEC defenses technically suck and should be disregarded, and the Big 12 offenses technically suck and should also be disregarded.

I agree somewhat with your assessment of OU/TCU, but you're missing one thing. OU COULD have put the hurt on TCU by keeping things mixed up, sure. But they decided to run out the clock by running the ball the rest of the 2nd half. However, they were unable to do so effectively. TCU stuffed the run continually in the 2nd half, knowing that we were trying to run it out. Given the size of our offensive line and their effectiveness at stopping the run, I'd hardly call them undersized and overmatched, especially on the defensive line.

They may not have the 1st tier athletes of USC, and they may very well not be quite the 2nd best defense in college football. But they're a very good defensive team, period. Any contradictory argument is just silly.


Most of the arguments that these 'fans' make are just silly. I had one clown call me overly confrontational because I merely stated that Ted Ginn's injury was extremely costly in a title game with the gators a few years ago.

Look. Most of this stuff is arbitrary, prognostication, speculation, conjecture, interpolation, pontification, and a bunch of other things that mean "pulling it out of your ***".

[cheezyq]

Most of the arguments that these 'fans' make are just silly. I had one clown call me overly confrontational because I merely stated that Ted Ginn's injury was extremely costly in a title game with the gators a few years ago.

Look. Most of this stuff is arbitrary, prognostication, speculation, conjecture, interpolation, pontification, and a bunch of other things that mean "pulling it out of your ***".

Yeah, I know what you mean. What's funny to me is the arbitrary "well, they didn't impress me, so they don't matter". Who does this guy think he is? They all have this ridiculous complex where they think that their opinion is the only one that matters in football. Of course, if the game of football were up to them, all the players would just line up at one endzone and race to the other endzone. The team with the fastest player wins.

[catsigater]

Most of the arguments that these 'fans' make are just silly. I had one clown call me overly confrontational because I merely stated that Ted Ginn's injury was extremely costly in a title game with the gators a few years ago.

Link?

[GottaHavePride]

You didn’t use the correct statistical method.

Cincinnati: 1.31
Washington: -0.75
TCU: 23.62
Baylor: 11
Texas: -1.08
Kansas: 1.67
Kansas St: -0.08
Nebraska: 8.17
Texas A&M: -3
Texas Tech: 23.58
OK St.: 0.58
Missouri: 22.15

These are the number of points OU held each of these teams under their average points per game for the year. Negative means they scored over their average in the OU game. Averaging these numbers you get: 7.26 pts lower than their average.

I hate to admit it, but the Gator just pwned you at maths.

And while we're at it, it's "will HAVE faced". ;)

[Crucifax Autumn]

dude...hillbillies don't need no grammar or mathemetix!

[Mark_in_Tulsa]

I hate to admit it, but the Gator just pwned you at maths.

And while we're at it, it's "will HAVE faced". ;)

My numbers were wrong but my point was right. I re-did the numbers and we have still faced 2 better defences than Florida in TCU and Texas.

I haven't redone all of them but I still think OU will end up 10th best.

I blame the pain killers and muscle relaxers for the phailing at math. :rolleyes:

[GottaHavePride]

Well, yeah, if you did all the teams consitently, the results will probably wind up looking very similar when re-figured.

Is it January 8th yet?

[Crucifax Autumn]

Is it January 8th yet?

I wish, I'm running out of witty and sarcastic replies!

[no1g8r]

My numbers were wrong but my point was right. I re-did the numbers and we have still faced 2 better defences than Florida in TCU and Texas.

I haven't redone all of them but I still think OU will end up 10th best.

I blame the pain killers and muscle relaxers for the phailing at math. :rolleyes:


Maybe a better way to look at it is from a percentage perspective. Within what percentage of their season average did these teams contain their opponents?

I didn't figure it up for everyone, but I looked at these:

TCU 41%
Florida 47%
Texas 54%
Oklahoma 78%

Florida, Texas, & Oklahoma played some pretty stout opponents most of the time. TCU, I'm not so sure. The teams that TCU really helped this stat against were:

New Mexico (4-8), held to 14% of their average
SMU (1-11), held to 33% of their average
San Diego St (2-10), held to 36% of their average
Colorado St (7-6), held to 28% of their average

In fact, TCU only played 5 teams with a winning record in all year. That means 6 of the 11 teams that they played had losing seasons. Can they really be considered in this equation?

Then again, after further review, Oklahoma and Texas both played 4 teams that had losing records, while Florida only played 2 teams with losing records. But that's a topic for another thread :)

[Crucifax Autumn]

Nah...let's do it here stat man...

What were the records of each of our opponents opponents?

[cheezyq]

Maybe a better way to look at it is from a percentage perspective.

Maybe a better way to look at it is...Florida succs

Yeah, I like those stats.

[no1g8r]

Maybe a better way to look at it is...Florida succs

Yeah, I like those stats.

My 9 year old could do a better job of responding than that.

Fortunately many Sooner fans have a bit more class.

[DCGator]

Maybe a better way to look at it is...Florida succs

Yeah, I like those stats.

What's with the monkey? I get the "SUCKS" and the football, but that monkey is just kind of random. :rolleyes: