Big XII vs. SEC

[NYC Poke]

I thought this was a pretty good article that sums up a lot of the discussion we've seen here.


Published Saturday December 27, 2008
Tom Shatel: SEC surely has one thing on the Big 12
BY TOM SHATEL
WORLD-HERALD COLUMNIST



OK, Mr. College Football. Put down the clicker and the TV listing for the Poinsetta Bowl. Got a quick question for you.

Who's better, Big 12 or Southeastern Conference?

OK, stop. First, answer this question: How many Big 12 schools are you rooting for in their bowl games?

If you had to think about it, then you are on your way to answering the first question.

Why the debate? It's been there all season. The Big 12 and SEC have dominated this autumn campaign — on the scoreboard, in the rankings, the box scores and the headlines.

We even have the perfect ending, Oklahoma vs. Florida, southwest vs. southeast, for the whole enchilada (and a side of grits) in the Bowl Championship Series national title game.

Will that game settle the matter once and for all?

No. There's no such thing as a "best conference." It's a matter of opinion.

Speaking of which, don't tell the SEC that.

They will tell you about the genius of Saban, the brilliance of Tebow, and the awesome awesomeness of SEC speed and defense.

But they don't stop there. For no extra charge, they will tell you how overrated the Big 12 is.

One SEC writer, from ESPN.com, wrote that Florida should be playing Alabama for the national title because the Big 12 plays "flag football." That writer never had to line up across from OU's ferocious Duke Robinson.

Another said that Florida's Tim Tebow should have won the Heisman Trophy because he played against real defenses, as opposed to OU's Sam Bradford and Texas' Colt McCoy, who cheat because they don't get in a huddle.

Mostly, they are looking at the national title game as a validation of the truth, that is, according to them. The SEC vs. Oklahoma.

In the Big 12, they are still arguing about the tiebreaker procedure.

And that is the inherent difference between the two leagues. In this case, the SEC has the edge.

It's sure not on the field.

The SEC had Florida, Alabama and Georgia. The other nine teams were average or below. Half of the SEC had winning records.

Of course, they will tell you that that's because the SEC is so tough.

Not this year. Tennessee lost to Wyoming. Vanderbilt lost to Duke. LSU nearly lost to Troy at home. The league's best nonconference win was Alabama over Clemson or Florida over Florida State.

In the only SEC-Big 12 meeting of the year, Texas handled Arkansas, 52-10.

The SEC people will tell you they had defenses ranked among the best in the game.

I'm here to tell you some SEC offenses couldn't score on air, and the league is devoid of great quarterbacks and offensive skill level. Even Steve Spurrier has lost his touch.

You know, the offense-defense debate is a funny thing. Supposedly, Oklahoma is a fraud because it scores all these meaningless points. Back in the day, the SEC and Florida media used to tout Miami, Florida (remember 1995?) and Florida State because of its great offenses and speed on offense. Now, apparently, the trend has reversed. Defense matters.

The Big Eight/12 schools always seem to be on the wrong end of the trend. Anyway, I digress.

This year, SEC football is not better than the Big 12, Florida's defense has not been tested and Oklahoma will more than hold its own in the national title game.

But the SEC is all over the Big 12 in one very important area.

Pride.

The SEC's got it. The Big 12's still learning.

The SEC is a family. It's one big region that pulls together. Are there bloody rivalries? Yes. But coach, player and fan usually put down their swords long enough to root for the greater good: the SEC football brand. Just last week, Georgia coach Mark Richt said he was rooting for Florida, a rival he coaches and recruits against, to win the national title.

No word whether Richt was gritting his teeth when he said it.

SEC football is a way of life. It's a year-round culture. And they know how to promote it, from the beat writers in every small town to the SEC media coordinator, Charles Bloom, who has been known to hold court talking SEC football at the College World Series.

Do we talk Big 12 football year-round? No. Not yet.

The Big 12 is still so young and so counterproductive. So many Big 12 writers are stuck on this South Division vs. North Division comparison. Instead of promoting the overall quality, some media (notably in the South) tout the South and hammer the North.

In a way, they make the SEC's argument for them.

But the thing is, the Big 12 isn't one region. It's two: Texas and Oklahoma and Everybody Else. If you ask the folks in Austin, it's Texas and Everyone Else.

Really now, do you think the Longhorns (especially this year) will root for OU to bring the title back to the Big 12?

Will Red Raiders root for Longhorns? Will OSU pull for Texas Tech over Ole Miss?

Aren't Husker fans secretly (or openly) pulling for Missouri to finish with a third straight loss?

It's getting better. For the first time this season, you could sense a pride building in the league. Big 12 quarterbacks were on every magazine cover and on ESPN every night. The league had the "game of the week" every week.

The Big 12, with its own cool traditions, hot rivalries and football obsessed folks, has a chance to reach the SEC pride level. But it's going to take time. It's going to take more years like this one.

http://omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1200&u_sid=10523708

[SoonerLB]

Exactly why I for one am pulling for Texas to beat Ohio State! I'm not only an OU fan, I'm a Big 12 fan! That and I hate Ohio State with a passion, and dislike the Big 10 almost as much as I dislike the entirely over-rated SEC!

[GottaHavePride]

I have to admit, I'm tired of hearing about how Big XII teams look so good because our defenses are terrible. I reverse the opinion, saying SEC defenses look so good because 3/4 of the offenses are inept.

I hope the Big XII teams steamroll people in their bowl games.

Except OSU. ;)

[badger]

Wait a sec... can't we just look at our recent records versus SEC teams?

I know! Let's look at the Cotton Bowl! That's a Big 12 and SEC game!

We have split with the SEC 5-5 during the past 10 years.

Oh dear... guess we have to be equals :rolleyes:

[badger]

I only want the Big 12 to defeat everyone because that means OU wins too.

If OU doesn't win, I don't want anyone else to either.

Is that wrong? Is that selfish? Tell me after I'm done staring at our new, beautiful Heisman next to our new, beautiful Big 12 trophy. So pretty when the light hits them just right. Boys, don't laugh - you all have a stiffy for the stiff arm trophy too :P

[A Sooner in Texas]

I normally root for every Big XII team to win its bowl game, but I cannot stomach rooting for Texas. If they win, they'll continue with the whining and chants of 45-35 and how they should have been in the CCG and the NCG. I have to live here. I hope they are KILLED by tOSU. Though I don't think that will happen.
Usually, it doesn't really matter to me how the Pokes do...but this year I do want them to win and win well. They've had a terrific season, played us really well and if they win, it just makes us look that much better.

[MALE918]

i agree. i root for big xii in bowl games. even more so since i live in ga. i have to disagree with the writers statement; however, that ga and fl are recruiting rivals. they are not. ga recruits ga and the carolinas. fl recruits fl; they do not recruit ga. ga has more players from n carolina than they do fl.
anyways back to the point. living in the stix of ga has given me a new appreciation for the big xii and has certainly raised my competetive spirit towards them. previously i didn't give ga, fl, bama or tennesse much thought but now. i wouldn't **** down their throat if they were on fire.

[A-M]

I always for the Big 12 team as long as they are not playing us. I like for all of them to win their bowl game, and I really do want that to happen this year!

[L-Boy]

As a fan of the SEC and a Gator fan, I would like to say that the SEC is head over heals better than other major conferences, but I don't have the objective data to do it. I have tracked records vs the Big 10 before, and the SEC may have a very slight edge, but that is mostly due to Ohio State, for whatever reason, can't seem to beat the SEC, or very rarely wins a big game at all. But even with that, the SEC only holds a slight edge.

I have not run the numbers for the Big 12, but I would suspect to see the same thing.

I think the perception is out there partially due to recent national championships - the SEC has won 3 of the last 5 years(or 6 yrs?), 5 in the last 12, or 6 in the last 15 yrs. The last 2 years SEC teams have beat up on media darling but hapless Ohio St, which furthers the perception.

ABC / ESPN has pimped the Big 10 in the past, probably because of broadcasting and other ties, but I think after the last 2 years they are feeling burned by it, so now they have overcompensated and jumped on the SEC bandwagon.

Objectively, I don't think the SEC is as strong this year, and the Big 12 is probably stronger. I think the Gators were head over heals better than them all, except maybe Bama, and UF beat them by 11 without Harvin. However, I don't know that I believe the Big 12 is THAT much better. Clearly the offenses (and QBs) of at least 5 teams are very good, but I still question how good some of the defenses are.

[badger]

I think the Gators were head over heals better than them all, except maybe Bama

Their heads overhealed so much that they swelled. Now they have big heads.

:P

[Dan Thompson]

I want all the Big XII teams to win and all the PAC-10 teams to lose.

[NYC Poke]

It's cyclical. The teams in just about all schools are stocked with guys who'd probably get a roster spot in just about all of the other schools, with the difference being determined by a small handful of truly elite players. This small group of elite players is comprised of a small handful of elite recruits who panned out and an even smaller handful of "finds."

Recently there has been talk of how difficult "running the gauntlet" in SEC play is. Well, this year running that gauntlet just didn't look that tough. It doesn't mean the SEC is bad, it just means it has fewer of those elite players than it has had in the past.

Same goes for the Big 10. Ohio State was not as good as the SEC teams it has faced recently. But that only holds true for those years. Ohio State is an outstanding program that in other years would have, or will, beat its SEC competition (like Michigan did last year ;) ). As a matter of fact, I expect Ohio State will win a MNC at some point during the Pryor years. Without him, not so much.

[adoniijahsooner]

To be honest, all of this talk about conference supremacy, Florida's speed, big 12 defenses is starting to get stale and very grating. Jan. 8th will not determine which conference is the best, nor does it really matter, because only one team will be crowned champions. The year Texas won, the big 12 stunk, and I cant remember anyone caring all that much. Maybe I am just stressed, because I am ready to watch OUR TEAM beat the hell out of the gators.

[NYC Poke]

Texas was able to win only because they weren't playing an SEC team. :D

[adoniijahsooner]

Yeah, Im sure thats what the sec apologists will say, but Texas and USC would have mopped the floor with any of those SEC teams.

[Readyfor8]

The perception of the SEC being a power conference is largely due to a very smart scheduling mentality that goes through the SEC. These teams schedule weak non conference opponents on a regular basis, just like the Big XII does.

Take a look at Florida's Non Con.
The Citadel
Miami (Lost, and played a bit poorly IMO)
Florida St. (Won handily)
Hawaii (got destroyed by Notre Dame for the first ND win in a bowl since 93)

Take a look at Oklahoma's Non Con
Cincinnati (Won conference and wasn't scheduled till 3-4 months before the season)
TCU (Won their bowl game against Boise St.)
Washington (Was scheduled as a premier game 5-6 years ago)
Chattanooga (Only Fill in we could find on short notice)

Florida and Oklahoma are the best of the conference in scheduling and a large part of that is the local rivalries Florida has naturally. The difference is the timing of the playing of patsies. Take Texas and Georgia for example. Texas played Rice, UTEP, Arkansas, and Florida Atlantic, That is your typical OOC Test with three Patsies. Georgia played Arizona State, and Georgia Tech OOC, but also played Georgia Southern and Central Michigan. This year it panned out that Arizona State was not living up to billing and Georgia Tech is a local rivalry that was living up to or beyond billing. The difference is when they played them. Instead of lining up their pansies in a row at the beginning of the season, the scheduled them like bye weeks in the middle of conference play with a couple at the beginning of the season for warm up.

It makes more sense to have conference play start early so that when the pollsters are at least seeing you perform against perceived quality opponents like South Carolina in week 3, instead of playing teams like Rice in week 4.

It allows you to schedule like Kansas State without looking like it. Take for instance LSU, they traditionally play Tulane, La Tech, and add in the Citadel or Troy. This year the OOC test for LSU was Appalachian State and Troy. You didn't hear anyone complain about that weak schedule.

It pays off too, until 3 teams have identical records, and you get left out a la Auburn 2004 (computers see through the scheduling shenanigans)

[TXBOOMER]

F texass. Richt is a liar by the way. I hope all big 12 teams win except texass. Believe me no true texass fans will be honestly pulling for OU to win another NC.

All OU fans routing for texass againgst THEosu cheer for them really loud when you see them holding up the 45 - 35 whiner signs during the game.

[Ruuuuuufus]

Cincinnati (Won conference and wasn't scheduled till 3-4 months before the season)

Cincinnati was scheduled over a year before this season started.

[L-Boy]

The perception of the SEC being a power conference is largely due to a very smart scheduling mentality that goes through the SEC. These teams schedule weak non conference opponents on a regular basis, just like the Big XII does.

Take a look at Florida's Non Con.
The Citadel
Miami (Lost, and played a bit poorly IMO)
Florida St. (Won handily)
Hawaii (got destroyed by Notre Dame for the first ND win in a bowl since 93)

Take a look at Oklahoma's Non Con
Cincinnati (Won conference and wasn't scheduled till 3-4 months before the season)
TCU (Won their bowl game against Boise St.)
Washington (Was scheduled as a premier game 5-6 years ago)
Chattanooga (Only Fill in we could find on short notice)

Florida and Oklahoma are the best of the conference in scheduling and a large part of that is the local rivalries Florida has naturally. The difference is the timing of the playing of patsies. Take Texas and Georgia for example. Texas played Rice, UTEP, Arkansas, and Florida Atlantic, That is your typical OOC Test with three Patsies. Georgia played Arizona State, and Georgia Tech OOC, but also played Georgia Southern and Central Michigan. This year it panned out that Arizona State was not living up to billing and Georgia Tech is a local rivalry that was living up to or beyond billing. The difference is when they played them. Instead of lining up their pansies in a row at the beginning of the season, the scheduled them like bye weeks in the middle of conference play with a couple at the beginning of the season for warm up.

It makes more sense to have conference play start early so that when the pollsters are at least seeing you perform against perceived quality opponents like South Carolina in week 3, instead of playing teams like Rice in week 4.

It allows you to schedule like Kansas State without looking like it. Take for instance LSU, they traditionally play Tulane, La Tech, and add in the Citadel or Troy. This year the OOC test for LSU was Appalachian State and Troy. You didn't hear anyone complain about that weak schedule.

It pays off too, until 3 teams have identical records, and you get left out a la Auburn 2004 (computers see through the scheduling shenanigans)

This year the only game I have an issue with in terms of UF's schedule is the Citadel. Hawaii is / was a legit team - they played in the Sugar Bowl last year, and were at least good enough to get to a lower teir bowl this year. Miami historically been a good team and an intrastate rival - same with FSU. The main reason UF schedules the likes of Citadel and OK the likes of Chattanooga is they want a home game so they can keep the money and not have to return the favor. If they can swing it with a team like Hawaii, or even Univ of Central FL, a team that at least is at times competitive, that is fine, but I think it is really embarrassing to line up against the likes of the Citadel, that does absolutely nothing for the program, and actually hurts the computer rankings strength of schedule.

There is a degree of crapshootedness to scheduling these games - its hard to know whether teams like Hawaii or Cincinnati will be any good or not. If they aren't but have historically been competitive, I don't have big issues with that. However, again, I don't like the Chattanooga's and the Citadels in the schedule.

In the past, I will say some of the Big 12 schools fill their non conference schedule all with patsies - K state comes to mind. I think OK has usually tried to put at least one or two decent OOC games in there, to its credit. As for the SEC, several of the teams play annual rivalries against good or decent ACC teams - USCe / Clemson, Ga - Ga Tech, UF - FSU, UF-Miami every few years. TN has scheduled a Pac 10 game several of the past few years, and have lost at least a couple of them. GA played AZ or AZ st this year, I forget. Ark often schedules a Big 12 game.

UF's schedule is pretty weak next year - Charleston Southern, Troy and FIU (plus annual FSU) in the schedule. Troy is pretty respectable, FIU actually isn't that bad, but Charleston Southern?? I have no use for that. I would rather us play a home and away against a better OOC team, but that won't happen because they want the money of the home game.

[Readyfor8]

Are you sure it was scheduled before the first game of the 07 season? I didn't see it until well after the fiesta bowl.

Doesn't matter if we had played them in the middle of conference play we would have played a top 15 team probably. And if we had played Kansas at the beginning of the season we would have played a much higher ranked team. Just like Georgia benefited from playing an over ranked South Carolina team for their third game.

[AlbqSooner]

Chattanooga was scheduled a few months before the season when Mid Tenn backed out of its scheduling agreement. At that late hour Chatt was the only team available.

Before I forget, it is clear that the SEC has much stronger defenses than any one in the world. How else does one explain Auburn winning a thriller by the score of 5-2; in freakin FOOTBALL?

[NYC Poke]

It will be interesting to see what Gus is able to do at Auburn. He was just named their OC.

[Salt City Sooner]

Chattanooga was scheduled a few months before the season when Mid Tenn backed out of its scheduling agreement. At that late hour Chatt was the only team available.

Before I forget, it is clear that the SEC has much stronger defenses than any one in the world. How else does one explain Auburn winning a thriller by the score of 5-2; in freakin FOOTBALL?
Ball State was contacted & they said it was a go in their books. Problem is, they wanted $1 million for the trip. Joe told them what they could do with that one.

Oh, & FWIW, the Auburn score was actually 3-2, over Mississippi St.

[tbl]

I liked the article, but I hope we don't ever end up like the SEC... and some of you guys are getting into it! We make fun of the SEC morans for their over the top "SEC! SEC! SEC!" nonsense, and now it looks like some of the Sooner family are getting sucked into it. Believe me... I get it. I live out here with these psycho's, and I am forced into B12 apologetics at times, but I will NEVER be a B12 "fan" and I rue the day we become like those dolts.

I'm a Sooner. I will not root for Texas. Period. Ever. Nebraska, sure. Kansas, maybe. Tech, possibly. OSU, depends. aTm, whatever... At the end of the day, as long as OU wins, I couldn't give a rip what happens with the rest of the teams. Not so in the SEC. They get upset if their rival loses a bowl game. Literally upset. That's madness!!!

[Johnny Utah]

I liked the article, but I hope we don't ever end up like the SEC... and some of you guys are getting into it! We make fun of the SEC morans for their over the top "SEC! SEC! SEC!" nonsense, and now it looks like some of the Sooner family are getting sucked into it. Believe me... I get it. I live out here with these psycho's, and I am forced into B12 apologetics at times, but I will NEVER be a B12 "fan" and I rue the day we become like those dolts.

I'm a Sooner. I will not root for Texas. Period. Ever. Nebraska, sure. Kansas, maybe. Tech, possibly. OSU, depends. aTm, whatever... At the end of the day, as long as OU wins, I couldn't give a rip what happens with the rest of the teams. Not so in the SEC. They get upset if their rival loses a bowl game. Literally upset. That's madness!!!

True that ... and most of them are bandwagoners too (I live in the Alpharetta area and can relate). Additionally most of them are and have been spectators their whole lives (ie, not actually played a sport or actually a team sport).

[Curly Bill]

Never understood the conference loyalty thing myself. I might root for some of the Big 12 teams, but that depends on who they're playing, and in at least one case even that doesn't matter -- Texas for example could be playing the German State Nazis and I'd root for the Germans.

Quite frankly, as far as I'm concerned as long as OU wins the rest of the Big 12 can suck it...

...but not as hard as the SEC, they can suck it harder then anyone as far as I'm concerned.

[soonermix]

well lets settle it once and for all with my proposed Big XII vs SEC weekend.
it will include an ooc game for every school the third week of the season between a big 12 school and a sec school.
we start out by ranking each team 1-12 in each conference and have a home and home between them.
then re-rank and do it again and so on until one conference goes 12-0
that would be freakin sweet

[FlatheadSooner]

As soon as other conferences start digging on B12 conference level of competition, which reflects on OUr performance (and ranking, etc.), I will start to pull for B12 teams to win their OOC & bowl games.

Go B12 (minus TU whorns during selective years) !!!!!

[Circle City Gator]

Here's one thing I think we can probably agree on- both the Big 12 and the SEC got short shrift for years while the PAC-10 and the Big-Can't-Count-Past-10 hid from real competition by playing in the self-described "Grandaddy of the them all" Rose Bowl. The single best thing that can be said about the BCS is that the Pac-10 and Big-10 winners now regularly get exposed after a full season of ESPN's "Is (Ohio State) (USC) the very best team ever to play college football" garbage.

[Iam4OUru]

Chattanooga was scheduled a few months before the season when Mid Tenn backed out of its scheduling agreement. At that late hour Chatt was the only team available.

Before I forget, it is clear that the SEC has much stronger defenses than any one in the world. How else does one explain Auburn winning a thriller by the score of 5-2; in freakin FOOTBALL?


Actually, you're givin' 'em more credit than they deserve.....Auburn 3..MSU 2.

[Circle City Gator]

Never understood the conference loyalty thing myself. I might root for some of the Big 12 teams, but that depends on who they're playing, and in at least one case even that doesn't matter -- Texas for example could be playing the German State Nazis and I'd root for the Germans.

Quite frankly, as far as I'm concerned as long as OU wins the rest of the Big 12 can suck it...

...but not as hard as the SEC, they can suck it harder then anyone as far as I'm concerned.

Actually, conference loyalty makes some sense. Florida has been the most televised program (other than Notre Dame, with its very own darned contract), in part because of the perceived strength of its schedule. The stronger the SEC, the higher the rankings, and the more national TV games. The more national games, the better the recruiting. Also, the better the strength of schedule, and ultimately BCS rankings. I want every UF opponent to win every game other than their Florida game. Well, I WANT to want every UF opponent to win, but if I'm actually watching FSU, I want them to lose, LOSE, LOSE.

[Curly Bill]

Actually, conference loyalty makes some sense. Florida has been the most televised program (other than Notre Dame, with its very own darned contract), in part because of the perceived strength of its schedule. The stronger the SEC, the higher the rankings, and the more national TV games. The more national games, the better the recruiting. Also, the better the strength of schedule, and ultimately BCS rankings. I want every UF opponent to win every game other than their Florida game. Well, I WANT to want every UF opponent to win, but if I'm actually watching FSU, I want them to lose, LOSE, LOSE.

I understand your argument, and it's one that's often made here as well. When it comes right down to it though as long as OU does well, I don't care what happens to the rest of the conference, or any other team for that matter. I will in individual games usually have or develop a rooting interest in one team or the other, and in many cases that may be a Big 12 team.

I guess what I mean is I just don't understand an OU fan for example who's all: "go Big 12 go" or a Gator fan who's all: "SEC...SEC...SEC..."

[catsigater]

I guess what I mean is I just don't understand an OU fan for example who's all: "go Big 12 go" or a Gator fan who's all: "SEC...SEC...SEC..."

All you have to do is look at the ACC or WAC or MWC to understand why it's important to have a strong conference with at least 4 or 5 teams who are consistently ranked in the top 15 or better.

I want SEC teams to win because to be the best, you have to beat the best. It's a source of pride when your team does that. And I think weak conferences should be at risk to have their status as BCS conferences taken if they continue to be mediocre.

Plus, it's a lot more fun ruining someones chance at at BCS birth than it is sending them to the Independence Bowl, instead of the Outback Bowl.

[tbl]

Here's the deal dude... The B12 is a good conference, always will be, yet without me rooting for the other teams . Texas will always be good. aTm always has potential. OSU is the perennial thorn in our side. CU has some titles. Nebraska will be back. Kansas is going to go places with Mangina. Tech is solid. OU... well...

These teams have potential to be great, yet there is no reason I as an individual should pull for them or look to their programs as some source of pride as an OU fan. If we beat Texas, there's a very good chance we've beaten a VERY good team. Same thing with a couple of other schools in the B12. WHY SHOULD I ROOT FOR THEM IF THE END RESULT IS THEY'RE GOING TO BE GOOD ANYWAY???? My rooting for a team makes no difference if they'll win or lose, but if I and 70,000 other OU fans started rooting for Texas, we'd look like a bunch of idiots (the same way you SEC pullers look when you're literally cheering for your rivals).

The SEC will always have good teams as well, however there is absolutely no reason you should root for your competition. It's stupid.

SEC! SEC! SEC!

[Curly Bill]

Here's the deal dude... The B12 is a good conference, always will be, yet without me rooting for the other teams . Texas will always be good. aTm always has potential. OSU is the perennial thorn in our side. CU has some titles. Nebraska will be back. Kansas is going to go places with Mangina. Tech is solid. OU... well...

These teams have potential to be great, yet there is no reason I as an individual should pull for them or look to their programs as some source of pride as an OU fan. If we beat Texas, there's a very good chance we've beaten a VERY good team. Same thing with a couple of other schools in the B12. WHY SHOULD I ROOT FOR THEM IF THE END RESULT IS THEY'RE GOING TO BE GOOD ANYWAY???? My rooting for a team makes no difference if they'll win or lose, but if I and 70,000 other OU fans started rooting for Texas, we'd look like a bunch of idiots (the same way you SEC pullers look when you're literally cheering for your rivals).

The SEC will always have good teams as well, however there is absolutely no reason you should root for your competition. It's stupid.

SEC! SEC! SEC!

That was well said.

[MojoRisen]

The Georgia Florida thing is perplexing...

I don't see anything wrong with taking pride in the conference you play in and it is better overall if the competition level is higher. I will be rooting for big 12 teams in the bowls... I like rivalries aside fromt the Red River Shootout and would prefer to have a big Nebraska OU game again.

This year I could care less for Texas- I hope they leave the conference all together. I did root for them to beat USC - to me it provided some redemption to how we played them the year before. However Texas is absolutely dead to me now and I do not even respect them as an advisary. The game next year in Dallas is going to be a royal rumble in the stands and on the field...

[ratedrsuperstar]

i agree. i root for big xii in bowl games. even more so since i live in ga. i have to disagree with the writers statement; however, that ga and fl are recruiting rivals. they are not. ga recruits ga and the carolinas. fl recruits fl; they do not recruit ga. ga has more players from n carolina than they do fl.
anyways back to the point. living in the stix of ga has given me a new appreciation for the big xii and has certainly raised my competetive spirit towards them. previously i didn't give ga, fl, bama or tennesse much thought but now. i wouldn't **** down their throat if they were on fire.


According to the rosters I looked at

Florida has 9 kids from Ga.
Georgia has 11 kids from Fla.

Kind of looks as if they do recruit in each others states !

Georgia was forced to look elsewhere (carolinas) for talent because of all the D1 schools in Florida now, you have FSU, Florida, Miami, South Fla, Central Fla, Florida Atlantic and Florida International recruiting the talent now. They should should entice Florida A&M, Bethune Cookman and Jacksonville U to move up to D1 and have their own conference !

[tbl]

According to the rosters I looked at

Florida has 9 kids from Ga.
Georgia has 11 kids from Fla.

Kind of looks as if they do recruit in each others states !


and it's not just those two teams. It's like that all over the SEC... but apparently that type of simple logic is too complicated for them to understand. I guess they figure as long as they win the head to head they'll be ok. Well newsflash... If I'm a kid growing up in Georgia and UF is coming after me just as hard as UGA, there's a very good chance I go to UF if my main goal is to win a championship.

[cheezyq]

I want SEC teams to win because to be the best, you have to beat the best. It's a source of pride when your team does that.

Then schedule good teams out of conference. Don't schedule patsies for your entire conference and rely on SEC hype to kick in because all your teams defeated wusses at home.

OU clearly chooses to set up at least one marquee matchup per year (doesn't always work out as planned, see UW). That gives OU a much better measuring stick than, "how did we do against X conference team?"

[P3 Gator]

Then schedule good teams out of conference. Don't schedule patsies for your entire conference and rely on SEC hype to kick in because all your teams defeated wusses at home.

OU clearly chooses to set up at least one marquee matchup per year (doesn't always work out as planned, see UW). That gives OU a much better measuring stick than, "how did we do against X conference team?"

We play FSU every year. They've been down lately but were on the schedule when they were at their peak, every year. We also played Miami this year and play them on occasion (and most Gator fans want it to be a home/away series every year like it used to be). I'd put either of those teams up against a "marquee" out of conference match-up against U Dub.

[cheezyq]

We play FSU every year. They've been down lately but were on the schedule when they were at their peak, every year. We also played Miami this year and play them on occasion (and most Gator fans want it to be a home/away series every year like it used to be). I'd put either of those teams up against a "marquee" out of conference match-up against U Dub.

Yeah, I wasn't particularly pointing at Florida as much as the rest of the SEC. Still, I know those in state things are rivalries, but I'd be shocked if more than one SEC team scheduled an "away" game against someone good outside of their state.

[P3 Gator]

Yeah, I wasn't particularly pointing at Florida as much as the rest of the SEC. Still, I know those in state things are rivalries, but I'd be shocked if more than one SEC team scheduled an "away" game against someone good outside of their state.

Actually wish FSU would get rid of St Booby Bowden and get their ****e together. Used to really look forward to that match-up. Had a discussion on the Gator Boards about season ticket prices and having to watch the weak sister games at home. Just a soon pay-up on Ebay for the really good match-ups and not have to watch Charleston Southern come in to Florida Field.

[no1g8r]

Here's the deal dude... The B12 is a good conference, always will be, yet without me rooting for the other teams. Texas will always be good. aTm always has potential. OSU is the perennial thorn in our side. CU has some titles. Nebraska will be back. Kansas is going to go places with Mangina. Tech is solid. OU... well...

These teams have potential to be great, yet there is no reason I as an individual should pull for them or look to their programs as some source of pride as an OU fan. If we beat Texas, there's a very good chance we've beaten a VERY good team. Same thing with a couple of other schools in the B12. WHY SHOULD I ROOT FOR THEM IF THE END RESULT IS THEY'RE GOING TO BE GOOD ANYWAY???? My rooting for a team makes no difference if they'll win or lose, but if I and 70,000 other OU fans started rooting for Texas, we'd look like a bunch of idiots (the same way you SEC pullers look when you're literally cheering for your rivals).

The SEC will always have good teams as well, however there is absolutely no reason you should root for your competition. It's stupid.

SEC! SEC! SEC!


You do realize that if you apply this logic, it would be "stupid" to pull for your own team if you weren't at the stadium (which is the only place that you can "make a difference" due to the noise that you help create).

Back on to the subject. 2 things happened in the SEC this decade that helped solidify the fans of the SEC: 1) Auburn's snub in the BCS championship game in 2004, made worse when the lousy play of OU vs. USC made it clear that they shouldn't have even been there, and 2) the 2006 BCS NC game with Ohio State vs. Florida, where EVERYONE was talking about the Big 10 dominating Florida going into the game.

The 2006 BCS game was the first time that I ever had Georgia fans walk up to me and say that they were pulling for Florida to beat Ohio St. I live in Atlanta, so most would have rather been struck by lightning than to admit that they were pulling for the Gators. But the way that the media was constantly putting down the SEC that year brought a lot of fans from opposing schools into pulling for Florida.

I'm starting to see some of the same thing in the Big 12 this year, with everyone talking about the Big 12 not having any defense. Big 12 fans are getting annoyed with it and are pulling for sister schools to have a good defensive showing against their bowl opponents. And since a lot of the media isn't giving OU a chance due to the "weak defenses" of the Big 12, more Big 12 sister school's fans are pulling for OU than usual.

It's like a family thing. When you are shooting hoops with your brother on the weekend, you're going all-out to try to beat him. You might talk some serious smack and really give him a hard time as you try to kick his tail. But when he's playing hoops for his school, you're going to root for his school against whatever school they are playing. Sibling rivalry goes by the wayside. And watch what happens when some opposing fan yells something bad out about your brother on the court. Those are fighting words.

For a lot of reasons, it makes sense to not only be a fan of your school, but for your conference as well. One of these reasons is that having a reputation as being in a strong conference will win you some "tiebreaker" points in the human polls, which can make the difference between making it to a National Championship game or not.

Personally, I think it's a more mature attitude towards the rivalries and the sport. It's recognition that your conference teams are interconnected in the grand scheme of things, with poor play by other conference schools reflecting poorly on your school as well.

[catsigater]

*Sniff* That was beautiful man.

Really.

[SPuL]

"They will tell you about the genius of Saban, the brilliance of Tebow, and the awesome awesomeness of SEC speed and defense."

^my favorite part

[FirstandGoal]

You do realize that if you apply this logic, it would be "stupid" to pull for your own team if you weren't at the stadium (which is the only place that you can "make a difference" due to the noise that you help create).

Back on to the subject. 2 things happened in the SEC this decade that helped solidify the fans of the SEC: 1) Auburn's snub in the BCS championship game in 2004, made worse when the lousy play of OU vs. USC made it clear that they shouldn't have even been there, and 2) the 2006 BCS NC game with Ohio State vs. Florida, where EVERYONE was talking about the Big 10 dominating Florida going into the game.

The 2006 BCS game was the first time that I ever had Georgia fans walk up to me and say that they were pulling for Florida to beat Ohio St. I live in Atlanta, so most would have rather been struck by lightning than to admit that they were pulling for the Gators. But the way that the media was constantly putting down the SEC that year brought a lot of fans from opposing schools into pulling for Florida.

I'm starting to see some of the same thing in the Big 12 this year, with everyone talking about the Big 12 not having any defense. Big 12 fans are getting annoyed with it and are pulling for sister schools to have a good defensive showing against their bowl opponents. And since a lot of the media isn't giving OU a chance due to the "weak defenses" of the Big 12, more Big 12 sister school's fans are pulling for OU than usual.

It's like a family thing. When you are shooting hoops with your brother on the weekend, you're going all-out to try to beat him. You might talk some serious smack and really give him a hard time as you try to kick his tail. But when he's playing hoops for his school, you're going to root for his school against whatever school they are playing. Sibling rivalry goes by the wayside. And watch what happens when some opposing fan yells something bad out about your brother on the court. Those are fighting words.

For a lot of reasons, it makes sense to not only be a fan of your school, but for your conference as well. One of these reasons is that having a reputation as being in a strong conference will win you some "tiebreaker" points in the human polls, which can make the difference between making it to a National Championship game or not.

Personally, I think it's a more mature attitude towards the rivalries and the sport. It's recognition that your conference teams are interconnected in the grand scheme of things, with poor play by other conference schools reflecting poorly on your school as well.

*sigh*


From your very first sentence, you proved to all of us that you just.dont.get.the.point.of.this.thread.




Seriously, try having Texass in your conference for just a few years and tell me you would feel the same way.

:rolleyes:

[Crucifax Autumn]

I love you man! That was so moving, so sensitive, so touching...

I really can't help but run my hands all over my body in ecstacy....SEC...SEC...SEC...*sob*

[A Sooner in Texas]

*sigh*


From your very first sentence, you proved to all of us that you just.dont.get.the.point.of.this.thread.




Seriously, try having Texass in your conference for just a few years and tell me you would feel the same way.

:rolleyes:

Amen, sister.
Go to any whorn board and see the hate of everything Oklahoma that oozes from every orifice of every whorn posting on it. They will NEVER root for OU, and I will NEVER root for anything whorn. I'll root for other Texas teams, especially when they're playing whorn; but I'll also root for those teams because they're part of the Big XII.

Rooting for teams in your conference is one thing; having a chant about it is altogether something different and truly weird.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Rooting for teams in your conference is one thing; having a chant about it is altogether something different and truly weird.

Almost as weird as mentioning your rivals in your school song.

[no1g8r]

*sigh*


From your very first sentence, you proved to all of us that you just.dont.get.the.point.of.this.thread.




Seriously, try having Texass in your conference for just a few years and tell me you would feel the same way.

:rolleyes:


No, I definitely DO get.the.point.of.this.thread. I just thought that the poster that I was quoting made an absolutely asinine argument and pointed out the flaw in it.

You are correct, Texas will NOT be pulling for OU this year, because Texas is convinced that they should be in the MNC game instead of OU, and they can make a somewhat reasonable argument to back it up (not that I agree with it). That makes this year a bit different.

Heck, the media fosters a lot of this conference pride during bowl season. Have you watched a bowl game since Christmas where they didn't put up the conference bowl W-L records up in order of winning percentage. No fan wants to see his conference at the bottom.

[FirstandGoal]

No, I definitely DO get.the.point.of.this.thread. I just thought that the poster that I was quoting made an absolutely asinine argument and pointed out the flaw in it.

You are correct, Texas will NOT be pulling for OU this year, because Texas is convinced that they should be in the MNC game instead of OU, and they can make a somewhat reasonable argument to back it up (not that I agree with it). That makes this year a bit different.

Heck, the media fosters a lot of this conference pride during bowl season. Have you watched a bowl game since Christmas where they didn't put up the conference bowl W-L records up in order of winning percentage. No fan wants to see his conference at the bottom.

I beg to differ.

The 'flaw' that you pointed out had nothing to do with the whole point that was being made. That is why you missed the whole point.

And while you are right about Texass not pulling for us, you are dead wrong on the reason. Texass will not be rooting for us because no self respecting :texan: would ever be caught dead rooting for anything in crimson and cream. The whole point of the argument is that we hate, and I mean hate with an undying burning passion anything to do with the other team.

Screw conference loyalty, and screw Texass

I hate me some big Televen conference, and tOSU is one of the main reasons, but you can bet your *** that I will be rooting for Texass to make like Gideon and drop that game.


Oh, and as far as little sister is concerned, I could give a crap less how they do tomorrow night.

[soonerboomer93]

True that ... and most of them are bandwagoners too (I live in the Alpharetta area and can relate). Additionally most of them are and have been spectators their whole lives (ie, not actually played a sport or actually a team sport).

so is that the new qualifier for true fandom?

1) attended the school
2) played a "team" sport

are we going to make it, played a team sport for the school they're a fan of?

[Crucifax Autumn]

No, but a basic understanding of how sports works is a good starting point and playing is the only way to really understand it unless you're Mike Leach.

No, you don't have to have played the sport for your chosen school, but having either attended said school or growing up in the area or being part of a family that is loyal to said school is also a plus as opposed to kicking back like a dumbazz watching Rice for 30 years and saying, damn...we never win anything and picking the flavor of the day as "your team" and heading to Wal-Mart and buying a cap and jersey.

I was born in Norman, had family that attended OU, played baseball as a kid since we didn't have football in Fletcher, moved to Texas, played football and track, and stood up for my Sooners right in whorn country for years, even to the point of doing editorials in my high school paper about why the Sooners were better than Texass and did a good enough job of it that the aggy and whorn fan coaches would come up and admit my good points. I'm a Sooner and not a bandwagon fan and I'm also a person who at least played some sports instead of jerking around in PE class all the way through childhood. I think that makes my opinion more valid than asstards who don't know anything but final scores and bandwagoneering to the hot team to be a winner.

[OU_Sooners75]

As a fan of the SEC and a Gator fan, I would like to say that the SEC is head over heals better than other major conferences, but I don't have the objective data to do it. I have tracked records vs the Big 10 before, and the SEC may have a very slight edge, but that is mostly due to Ohio State, for whatever reason, can't seem to beat the SEC, or very rarely wins a big game at all. But even with that, the SEC only holds a slight edge.

I have not run the numbers for the Big 12, but I would suspect to see the same thing.

I think the perception is out there partially due to recent national championships - the SEC has won 3 of the last 5 years(or 6 yrs?), 5 in the last 12, or 6 in the last 15 yrs. The last 2 years SEC teams have beat up on media darling but hapless Ohio St, which furthers the perception.

ABC / ESPN has pimped the Big 10 in the past, probably because of broadcasting and other ties, but I think after the last 2 years they are feeling burned by it, so now they have overcompensated and jumped on the SEC bandwagon.

Objectively, I don't think the SEC is as strong this year, and the Big 12 is probably stronger. I think the Gators were head over heals better than them all, except maybe Bama, and UF beat them by 11 without Harvin. However, I don't know that I believe the Big 12 is THAT much better. Clearly the offenses (and QBs) of at least 5 teams are very good, but I still question how good some of the defenses are.

Big 12 teams vs. SEC:
Baylor 48-55-4
Colorado 2-9-1
Iowa State 1-6-0
Kansas 6-6-1
Kansas St. 7-14-0
Missouri 19-8-1
Nebraska 19-6-1
Oklahoma 20-8-3
Oklahoma St. 19-40-1
Texas 95-45-4
Texas A&M 58-75-6
Texas Tech 13-41-2
Overall: 307-313-24

SEC Teams vs. Big 12:
Alabama 14-16-2
Arkansas 160-154-7
Auburn 11-15-1
Florida 5-6-1
Georgia 14-7-0
Kentucky 9-10-1
LSU 52-40-5
Ole Miss 7-17-0
Miss St 14-14-2
South Carolina 6-9-0
Tennessee 9-8-1
Vanderbilt 12-11-4
Overall: 313-307-24

From where I sit...there has not been a big discrepency between the two conferences.

As far as defenses go....

First keep in mind the Big 12 passes the ball more than the SEC this year when looking at these stats.

Yards/Play:
SEC: 4.81
Big 12: 5.67
Difference: -.86 yards 2.58 feet

Average plays/game:
SEC: 64
Big 12: 71
Difference: +7.0 plays/game

Now if you look at these two stats, the Big 12 should average giving up 72.24 yards per game more than the SEC. In reality, the Big 12 gives up 93 yards/game more. Which is a discrepency of roughly 21 yards more per game.

Yards/Game:
SEC: 307.78
Big 12: 400.78
Difference: 93.0

In other words, the Big 12 may not have the total defense as the SEC, but to say the SEC is heads over heels better than the Big 12 is a little bit far fetched.

[OU_Sooners75]

The Georgia Florida thing is perplexing...

I don't see anything wrong with taking pride in the conference you play in and it is better overall if the competition level is higher. I will be rooting for big 12 teams in the bowls... I like rivalries aside fromt the Red River Shootout and would prefer to have a big Nebraska OU game again.

This year I could care less for Texas- I hope they leave the conference all together. I did root for them to beat USC - to me it provided some redemption to how we played them the year before. However Texas is absolutely dead to me now and I do not even respect them as an advisary. The game next year in Dallas is going to be a royal rumble in the stands and on the field...


UGA vs. Florida is not even one of the all time greatest rivalries...which would explain why they would be cheering for each other.

In fact, that "rivalry" of 86 total games was not really heated up outside of the two schools before Spurrier took over at Florida.

Remember Folks, for many years, Florida was like the 6 to 7 win teams of OSU...which would occasionally throw in a 8 to 9 win season.

In fact, their first ever 10 win season came in 1991 under Steve Spurrier. Until him, Florida was basically irrelevant in football.

[Crucifax Autumn]

As far as I'm concerned they still are and we'll be showing them why next week.

[P3 Gator]

No, but a basic understanding of how sports works is a good starting point and playing is the only way to really understand it unless you're Mike Leach.

No, you don't have to have played the sport for your chosen school, but having either attended said school or growing up in the area or being part of a family that is loyal to said school is also a plus as opposed to kicking back like a dumbazz watching Rice for 30 years and saying, damn...we never win anything and picking the flavor of the day as "your team" and heading to Wal-Mart and buying a cap and jersey.

I was born in Norman, had family that attended OU, played baseball as a kid since we didn't have football in Fletcher, moved to Texas, played football and track, and stood up for my Sooners right in whorn country for years, even to the point of doing editorials in my high school paper about why the Sooners were better than Texass and did a good enough job of it that the aggy and whorn fan coaches would come up and admit my good points. I'm a Sooner and not a bandwagon fan and I'm also a person who at least played some sports instead of jerking around in PE class all the way through childhood. I think that makes my opinion more valid than asstards who don't know anything but final scores and bandwagoneering to the hot team to be a winner.

I don't think that most of the folks that take the time to go to a message board and discuss their team are bandwagoners. Just too must knowledge about the teams being thrown around. My family moved to Florida when I was 7 (I'm 51 now) and my oldest sister attended UF starting in 1966 when Spurrier was playing QB and winning a Heisman himself. When you get hooked as a young guy, you get hooked hard. Over all that time, there has not been a college football team other than the Gators for me (except possibly Navy as I am retired Navy and was stationed at Annapolis for three years). Most of the guys over on Gatorsports are the same although most are much younger. I suspect you'd agree about the Sooner fans here. Most are regular posters who didn't just become fans this year.

[Thin White Duke]

Everyone arguing that the Big 12 shouldn't root for each other is missing the point that the columnist is making. In this BCS system you need your conference to do well especially in the championship game because it will help your team in the future. For example, if Ohio State had won the past two championships instead of the SEC then Penn State would be playing Oklahoma instead of us. Texas should root for you all to win. Say for instance Oklahoma were to get blownout and next season Texas has 1 loss, an SEC team has one loss and USC is undefeated. The SEC team would likely get the benefit of the doubt based on the previous years results and get to play USC. But if Oklahoma were to blow out Florida then Texas would likely get to play USC. However, if we had a playoff with the champion of each league playing each other then it wouldn't be important to hope your conference won because you wouldn't have the politics behind who gets to play who.

[cheezyq]

Back on to the subject. 2 things happened in the SEC this decade that helped solidify the fans of the SEC: 1) Auburn's snub in the BCS championship game in 2004

Had this been Texas, we would have laughed our ***es off...forever.


2) the 2006 BCS NC game with Ohio State vs. Florida, where EVERYONE was talking about the Big 10 dominating Florida going into the game.

This sounds oddly familiar...


For a lot of reasons, it makes sense to not only be a fan of your school, but for your conference as well. One of these reasons is that having a reputation as being in a strong conference will win you some "tiebreaker" points in the human polls, which can make the difference between making it to a National Championship game or not.

Personally, I think it's a more mature attitude towards the rivalries and the sport. It's recognition that your conference teams are interconnected in the grand scheme of things, with poor play by other conference schools reflecting poorly on your school as well.

I think Curly Bill said it best when he said that occasionally he will develop a rooting interest in a team due to certain circumstances and situations. But on the whole you AREN'T family. You're hated rivals with Georgia and LSU. We're hated rivals with Texas. That's sports. It has nothing to do with "maturity".

And I absolutely disagree that other conference schools play reflects poorly on our play. If we do poorly, that affects our reputation. But if we win, who cares what anyone else in our conference did? If Ole Miss loses, but Florida wins, are you telling me that your title is tainted, or somehow less important? This is the very problem I have with the SEC. You all tie your identities to each other. It's as if you're actually chanting, "we're only great because of the SEC". That may be true, but I certainly wouldn't go around advertising it publicly.

On the other hand, imagine OU, a team with 7 national titles and a long history of winning, having their fans chanting "we're only great because the Big 12 is great". That would just be absurd. MU didn't help us win those titles. Texas didn't help us win those titles. We didn't establish a winning tradition because Colorado has been good once in a while. We did it because we're freakin' OU and we kick ***.

[SoonerBacker]

Everyone arguing that the Big 12 shouldn't root for each other is missing the point that the columnist is making. In this BCS system you need your conference to do well especially in the championship game because it will help your team in the future. For example, if Ohio State had won the past two championships instead of the SEC then Penn State would be playing Oklahoma instead of us. Texas should root for you all to win. Say for instance Oklahoma were to get blownout and next season Texas has 1 loss, an SEC team has one loss and USC is undefeated. The SEC team would likely get the benefit of the doubt based on the previous years results and get to play USC. But if Oklahoma were to blow out Florida then Texas would likely get to play USC. However, if we had a playoff with the champion of each league playing each other then it wouldn't be important to hope your conference won because you wouldn't have the politics behind who gets to play who.


I don't think you understand the nature of the beast known as OU/tu. WE absolutely HATE texa$$. They feel pretty much the same about OU. They even have "OU Sucks" as part of their fight song.

I never want the Whorns playing for a MNC again. I hope they lose every game they play in every sport.

[FirstandGoal]

I wonder if these Florida fans were to finally get it if FSU were in their conference?


Talk about putting the shoe on the other foot...

[Thin White Duke]

Our biggest rival is in the same conference. It is Georgia.

I understand what you all are saying but it is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. If a team in your conference wins the MNC then your team is more likely to win the political votes to play in the MNC the following year if it is down to a host of one loss teams. It is simply playing a flawed system. Ask Penn State how important this is. If we went to a playoff system where the winner of each conference gets in the playoffs then of course I want my entire conference to suck so that it is easier for us win the conference. Until playoffs are in place then it helps your team for your conference to do well.

[DCGator]

I beg to differ.

The 'flaw' that you pointed out had nothing to do with the whole point that was being made. That is why you missed the whole point.

And while you are right about Texass not pulling for us, you are dead wrong on the reason. Texass will not be rooting for us because no self respecting :texan: would ever be caught dead rooting for anything in crimson and cream. The whole point of the argument is that we hate, and I mean hate with an undying burning passion anything to do with the other team.

Screw conference loyalty, and screw Texass

I hate me some big Televen conference, and tOSU is one of the main reasons, but you can bet your *** that I will be rooting for Texass to make like Gideon and drop that game.


Oh, and as far as little sister is concerned, I could give a crap less how they do tomorrow night.

Look, we have the same thing going on in the SEC. You will never catch an Aubie rooting for a Tider, even if they were playing al qeda. Most Vols and Tiders won't root for each other either. There are a lot of fans that won't root for some or any of their conference bretheren in OOC games. But in general, SEC fans take some pride in their conference, and have some self interest to boost the reputation of the conference. Besides S-E-C just rolls off the tongue, like U-S-A! It really needs to be a three syllable thing. :D

[DCGator]

Our biggest rival is in the same conference. It is Georgia.

I understand what you all are saying but it is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. If a team in your conference wins the MNC then your team is more likely to win the political votes to play in the MNC the following year if it is down to a host of one loss teams. It is simply playing a flawed system. Ask Penn State how important this is. If we went to a playoff system where the winner of each conference gets in the playoffs then of course I want my entire conference to suck so that it is easier for us win the conference. Until playoffs are in place then it helps your team for your conference to do well.

The buttsniffers can go to he11! I want them to lose every game, there are somethings not worth the possible advantage of high conference standing, such as sullying my soul rooting for the d@mn dawgs.

[no1g8r]

I was just about to say that every fan base has some folks whose hatred of the other team runs so deep that they will wish misfortune on their rival even when it is to the detriment of their own team. DCGator emphasized that point for me.

I used to be that way, but the last few years of the BCS have taught me that sometimes its better to put the venom aside. Besides just the human polls, at one point late in the season Florida was in danger of not making the BCS NC game because the teams that Florida had beaten were starting to not do so well against other teams, either. This was weakening the computer calculations for the strength of schedule for Florida, which was starting to erode our standing in some computer polls.

There were a few times that I said "it almost makes me sick to do so, but I'm going to have to hope that Georgia/LSU/FSU wins this game this week". To have them lose could have cost Florida dearly.


Looking back a few years, I first started hearing the "S-E-C" chant in the early 90's. I would hear it late in the games where Florida was wrapping up their SEC divisional title and were going to go to the SEC Championship game. A few years later I started hearing it when SEC teams were playing non-conference games, but that's not where it had its roots.

And to the cheezy one who misinterprets the "S-E-C" chant as SEC fans saying that their school is nothing without the SEC, that's far from the truth. They're saying that their school is a key part of what is often the strongest conference in the nation (not this year, I realize). It's saying "not only is my school better than your school, our whole conference is better than yours".

But I already see that the Sooner fans on this board don't get that. They.just.do.not.get.it.

[cheezyq]

And to the cheezy one who misinterprets the "S-E-C" chant as SEC fans saying that their school is nothing without the SEC, that's far from the truth. They're saying that their school is a key part of what is often the strongest conference in the nation (not this year, I realize). It's saying "not only is my school better than your school, our whole conference is better than yours".

But I already see that the Sooner fans on this board don't get that. They.just.do.not.get.it.

No, it's not a misinterpretation at all. You've specifically said that you identify your team with your conference. You are tying your identity as Florida fans also to your conference because you think your conference is badazz, and you think that makes your team better. You have specifically SAID that. That's not misinterpretation, that's you getting offended over how WE view that kind of statement.

And you're absolutely right that we don't get it. But that comes with having two different points of view. One point of view coming from a team that has established and DEFINED football in its conference, and another coming from a team that is merely a MEMBER of their conference. OU makes the Big 12 better, not the other way around. OU was football before the Big 6/7/8/12 ever had teams that could compete on a national scale. And even though the Big 12 is a top conference this year and a lot of years, OU STILL dominates on a regular basis.

See, that's the difference between teams like USC, Notre Dame, and OU versus Florida and LSU. Yes, you are great teams. Yes, you have won championships. But you still define yourselves as SEC teams with your SEC chant. Our chant, on the other hand, means something completely different and it starts a little something like this:

BOOOOOOOOOMMMMER!

You'll understand when you see the end of that chant from my Sooner brethren.

;)

[no1g8r]

You are tying your identity as Florida fans also to your conference because you think your conference is badazz, and you think that makes your team better.



You have a logic flaw in your argument. You cannot connect the dots to arrive at the conclusion of "...you think that makes your team better". I never said anything that could logically be construed as "Florida is better because the SEC is better". What I'm saying is "the SEC is great, in large part because Florida is great". You can't apply the transitive property to this, but you keep trying to do so.

[cheezyq]

You have a logic flaw in your argument. You cannot connect the dots to arrive at the conclusion of "...you think that makes your team better". I never said anything that could logically be construed as "Florida is better because the SEC is better". What I'm saying is "the SEC is great, in large part because Florida is great". You can't apply the transitive property to this, but you keep trying to do so.

There is only a flaw in your understanding of my post. When I said YOU, I did not mean YOU individually "no1g8r". I meant YOU collectively, as in "YOU Gator fans", and "YOU SEC fans". Several of your friends here have expressed the EXACT sentiment that a strong showing by the other conference members reflects favorably upon your favorite team, the Gators, and that conference strength is what makes YOU better than other teams.

When your fans come over here to argue why you think you're better than OU, you don't say, "because we're Florida". Instead you say, "because we're in the SEC". Then you dream on and on about SEC speed and SEC defense. LSU fans are the same way, as well as Georgia fans. Even Alabama fans, who have enough tradition to account for their own success, use the SEC argument as to why they're "superior".

You, collectively as a conference fanbase, tie your team's strength to your conference's strength. There is no debate about that. The chant "S-E-C" is a representation of that belief, just as the "Boomer Sooner" chant is a representation of the belief that we think we're the best program out there, regardless of conference.

You may not agree with, or like, my synopsis of the SEC chant. That's fine. But there is no doubt that what I've said here is truth.

[no1g8r]

There is only a flaw in your understanding of my post. When I said YOU, I did not mean YOU individually "no1g8r". I meant YOU collectively, as in "YOU Gator fans", and "YOU SEC fans". Several of your friends here have expressed the EXACT sentiment that a strong showing by the other conference members reflects favorably upon your favorite team, the Gators, and that conference strength is what makes YOU better than other teams.

When your fans come over here to argue why you think you're better than OU, you don't say, "because we're Florida". Instead you say, "because we're in the SEC". Then you dream on and on about SEC speed and SEC defense. LSU fans are the same way, as well as Georgia fans. Even Alabama fans, who have enough tradition to account for their own success, use the SEC argument as to why they're "superior".

You, collectively as a conference fanbase, tie your team's strength to your conference's strength. There is no debate about that. The chant "S-E-C" is a representation of that belief, just as the "Boomer Sooner" chant is a representation of the belief that we think we're the best program out there, regardless of conference.

You may not agree with, or like, my synopsis of the SEC chant. That's fine. But there is no doubt that what I've said here is truth.


When you quoted ME as you made your argument, I presumed that you were referring to MY statements. I didn't realize that you just liked having my quotes adorn your post. ;)

Equating "Boomer Sooner" with "S-E-C" is nuts. One is a school chant, the other a conference chant. SEC schools have school chants and other shows of individual school spirit, with the most well known being "Roll Tide" by Bama, followed closely by the Gator Chomp. Just because your conference doesn't have a conference chant doesn't mean that our "S-E-C" chant is a substitute for a school chant.

As far as your "synopsis", there is definitely doubt about whether or not it is the truth. It's your opinion, not a fact. The distinction between the two seems to be lost on all but a handful of Sooner fans here (and, unfortunately, some Gator fans here as well).

[cheezyq]

When you quoted ME as you made your argument, I presumed that you were referring to MY statements. I didn't realize that you just liked having my quotes adorn your post. ;)

I used your post to take opposition with what you said, but in the context of all SEC fans.


Equating "Boomer Sooner" with "S-E-C" is nuts. One is a school chant, the other a conference chant. SEC schools have school chants and other shows of individual school spirit, with the most well known being "Roll Tide" by Bama, followed closely by the Gator Chomp. Just because your conference doesn't have a conference chant doesn't mean that our "S-E-C" chant is a substitute for a school chant.

Your conference is the only conference with a conference chant. That's the point. While some teams have long-established traditions, like "Roll Tide", they are now supplemented with the SEC chant...which is part of your new melded identity.


As far as your "synopsis", there is definitely doubt about whether or not it is the truth. It's your opinion, not a fact. The distinction between the two seems to be lost on all but a handful of Sooner fans here (and, unfortunately, some Gator fans here as well).

You need to learn to make distinctions between two separate statements. I said you may disagree with my SYNOPSIS, but what I've SAID is truth. The synopsis is the opinion.

My opinion/synopsis is that the SEC chant represents an inferiority complex and that it highlights an attempt to use the conference's hype to artificially inflate the value of your own team. It is also my opinion that teams such as OU do not need to use the conference to increase their value, as they are already one of the elite programs in college football. Therefore, it is also my opinion that the SEC chant is lame.

You're free to disagree with that all you want. However, my opinion is based on the following, which is undoubtedly true:

1. SEC chant represents your belief that the SEC is superior.
2. Your fans use the SEC conference as the measuring stick for the superiority of your team (as evidenced by MANY arguments on this very site).

[MALE918]

Florida has 9 kids from Ga.
Georgia has 11 kids from Fla.

Kind of looks as if they do recruit in each others states !

Thank you for proving my point - which was they are not true recruiting rivals.

have to disagree with the writers statement; however, that ga and fl are recruiting rivals.
fl - has 6 players from ga and ga - has 11 from florida.
that's out of 99 players on each team.

now let's look at a recruiting rivalry.
oklahoma has 42 from ok and 45 from tx. and of course our recruiting rival is texas.

but i guess by your logic, we must be recruiting rivals with ga as well since we have 3 players from ga; almost as many as florida.


If I'm a kid growing up in Georgia and UF is coming after me just as hard as UGA, there's a very good chance I go to UF if my main goal is to win a championship.
i like your point here, because the rivalry between fl and ga reminds me more of the ou and osu rivalry than the ou and tx rivalry.

[A-M]

No, it's not a misinterpretation at all. You've specifically said that you identify your team with your conference. You are tying your identity as Florida fans also to your conference because you think your conference is badazz, and you think that makes your team better. You have specifically SAID that. That's not misinterpretation, that's you getting offended over how WE view that kind of statement.

And you're absolutely right that we don't get it. But that comes with having two different points of view. One point of view coming from a team that has established and DEFINED football in its conference, and another coming from a team that is merely a MEMBER of their conference. OU makes the Big 12 better, not the other way around. OU was football before the Big 6/7/8/12 ever had teams that could compete on a national scale. And even though the Big 12 is a top conference this year and a lot of years, OU STILL dominates on a regular basis.

See, that's the difference between teams like USC, Notre Dame, and OU versus Florida and LSU. Yes, you are great teams. Yes, you have won championships. But you still define yourselves as SEC teams with your SEC chant. Our chant, on the other hand, means something completely different and it starts a little something like this:

BOOOOOOOOOMMMMER!

You'll understand when you see the end of that chant from my Sooner brethren.

;)

YOU SAID IT!!!!



SOOOOOOOONNNNNNNER