Valkyrie...

[SteelCitySooner]

Awesome movie! Just saw it. Definitely recommend it.

[sooner2b09]

Awesome movie! Just saw it. Definitely recommend it.

+1

I thought it was pretty good too.

[SicEmBaylor]

I saw it tonight as well in Muskogee.

It was great, but I didn't think Tom Cruise was very believable as an old-world Prussian aristocrat.

[Okla-homey]

Awesome movie! Just saw it. Definitely recommend it.

I'm curious and will prolly see it eventually, especially because I understand they went to extraordinary lengths to get all the material culture of wartime Germany right. Here's what I'd like to know from someone who's seen it.

Did Von Stauffenberg come across as a person with whom the viewer sympathizes?

See, my theory has always been that Von S. and his co-conspirators set out to take down Hitler not so much because of his evil deeds, but more because they resented the fact a low-class Austrian guy was running their country and mismanaging the war -- which was unacceptable to Prussian sensibilities.

Put another way, did they portray Von S. as some sort of admirably righteous person who set out to kill Hitler because the world needed him dead, or was it more because Von S. was offended that Hitler was mucking things up to the point Germany could'nt hope to win the war?

How about it? :pop:

[King Crimson]

I saw it tonight as well in Muskogee.

It was great, but I didn't think Tom Cruise was very believable as an old-world Prussian aristocrat.

color me in disbelief.

[Frozen Sooner]

Apparently, they take the third route and show that killing Hitler was necessary for actualization of Thetan-self.

[King Crimson]

Homey wants to kill the fuhrer in a beautiful righteous, sacrificial death.

does the world need YET another Nazi film?

[Okla-homey]

Homey wants to kill the fuhrer in a beautiful righteous, sacrificial death.




No, not at all. Hitler definitely needed killin.' I just wanna know if Von S. was portrayed as some kind of saintly person who was bent on killing a monster, or simply a guy who was ticked the dictator had messed up the war.

[King Crimson]

No, not at all. Hitler definitely needed killin.' I just wanna know if Von S. was portrayed as some kind of saintly person who was bent on killing a monster, or simply a guy who was ticked the dictator had messed up the war.

that's not what you say above, you make a case based in social class/aristocracy.

which i think is more interesting.

[Okla-homey]

that's not what you say above, you make a case based in social class/aristocracy.

which i think is more interesting.

Well, I think in truth it was probably a bit of both. I just hope for accuracy's sake, Cruise played him that way, and not as some heroic knightly person who took one for the team in conspiring to slay a dragon.

[King Crimson]

though, it's WWI....you should check out Renoir's "the Grand Illusion" for prussian aristocracy. it's also the movie that along with the great escape Hogan's Heroes is based on, for better or worse.

[LosAngelesSooner]

So funny to see how different people react to different movies.

The general consensus I've heard is that the movie is awful and that Tom Cruise is painfully unwatchable.

Of course this movie was finished with shooting over 2 years ago and they've had it shelved and been doing desperate re-shoots and re-edits on it during that 2 years in an effort to save the film, so I'm not surprised that's what I've heard.

I just think its interesting that you guys actually liked it.

As for me, I just got back from Curious Case of Benjamin Buttons...I liked it. :)

[Frozen Sooner]

So funny to see how different people react to different movies.

The general consensus I've heard is that the movie is awful and that Tom Cruise is painfully unwatchable.

Of course this movie was finished with shooting over 2 years ago and they've had it shelved and been doing desperate re-shoots and re-edits on it during that 2 years in an effort to save the film, so I'm not surprised that's what I've heard.

I just think its interesting that you guys actually liked it.

As for me, I just got back from Curious Case of Benjamin Buttons...I liked it. :)

Huh. Because I remember Cruise being kicked off German bases less than 2 years ago while filming.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

It made Fox News' 10 worst movie list.


...before it released. Honestly.

[SicEmBaylor]

I'm curious and will prolly see it eventually, especially because I understand they went to extraordinary lengths to get all the material culture of wartime Germany right. Here's what I'd like to know from someone who's seen it.

Did Von Stauffenberg come across as a person with whom the viewer sympathizes?

See, my theory has always been that Von S. and his co-conspirators set out to take down Hitler not so much because of his evil deeds, but more because they resented the fact a low-class Austrian guy was running their country and mismanaging the war -- which was unacceptable to Prussian sensibilities.

Put another way, did they portray Von S. as some sort of admirably righteous person who set out to kill Hitler because the world needed him dead, or was it more because Von S. was offended that Hitler was mucking things up to the point Germany could'nt hope to win the war?

How about it? :pop:

I've also always thought Von Stauffenberg acted for the reasons you mentioned. The movie portrayed him as someone who was loyal to his country and aghast at the crimes being committed by Hitler. He and the co-conspirators comes across as self-righteous (not in a bad way) anti-Nazis who want to end the war and make peace.

What the movie doesn't mention is that the real aim of Von Stauffenberg and the conspirators was to end the war on the western front and develop an alliance with the United States and UK to fight the Soviet Union. Instead, the impression is that they're anti-war (in a manner of speaking) and are simply seeking a universal peace.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Huh. Because I remember Cruise being kicked off German bases less than 2 years ago while filming.Re-shoots.


It made Fox News' 10 worst movie list.


...before it released. Honestly.Early press screenings. They do a lot of focus group screenings, test group screenings, and industry screenings before a film is "finished." Then they do press screenings to try and get buzz going.

In this case...it's not working.

[SteelCitySooner]

I just really enjoyed the movie and thought I walked away with some knowledge I didn't have before; and admittedly I'm not up on the history of that time and event.

***Spoiler alert**** (if you don't know history)

I need to learn how to black out text.

I think there was an implication of righteousness on behalf of Von S, but it was stated he was doing it for a loyalty to Germany, as Hitler was running the country into the ground. You'll probably be dissappointed though, as Von S. was portrayed as someone you sympothized with. You felt bad when he and his conspiritors were outed and executed.

I thought Cruise did a good job. I remember hearing about Cruise catching a lot of flak initially from the German gub't because of Scientology and its cult status in Germany. Now I hear that the German's are welcoming Cruise because of his portrayal of Von S., who in Germany is considered a national hero.

[Harry Beanbag]

So funny to see how different people react to different movies.

The general consensus I've heard is that the movie is awful and that Tom Cruise is painfully unwatchable.

Of course this movie was finished with shooting over 2 years ago and they've had it shelved and been doing desperate re-shoots and re-edits on it during that 2 years in an effort to save the film, so I'm not surprised that's what I've heard.

I just think its interesting that you guys actually liked it.

As for me, I just got back from Curious Case of Benjamin Buttons...I liked it. :)


From the moment I first saw the trailer for Valkyrie back in the summer, I was flabbergasted at the casting of Tom f'n Cruise in this role. Who thought that was a good idea? Hollywood is obviously excellent at making movies, duh, but it's amazing how much they can also screw up incredible stories, that could almost tell themselves, so badly. Pearl Harbor and Windtalkers immediately come to mind.

[StoopTroup]

http://www.honda-bike.net/images/ValkyrieRune.jpg

[swardboy]

From the moment I first saw the trailer for Valkyrie back in the summer, I was flabbergasted at the casting of Tom f'n Cruise in this role. Who thought that was a good idea? Hollywood is obviously excellent at making movies, duh, but it's amazing how much they can also screw up incredible stories, that could almost tell themselves, so badly. Pearl Harbor and Windtalkers immediately come to mind.


Isn't it Cruise's production?

[Harry Beanbag]

Isn't it Cruise's production?

I don't know, but I guess that would explain it.

[Okla-homey]

From the moment I first saw the trailer for Valkyrie back in the summer, I was flabbergasted at the casting of Tom f'n Cruise in this role. Who thought that was a good idea? Hollywood is obviously excellent at making movies, duh, but it's amazing how much they can also screw up incredible stories, that could almost tell themselves, so badly. Pearl Harbor and Windtalkers immediately come to mind.


The only thing that makes sense is Von S. was considered to be devastatingly handsome, so they needed a very good looking d00d. However, in period pictures, Von S. seems much taller than Cruise.

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/993/cruisestauffenberg30538ht0.jpg

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/9123/stauffenbergbt1.jpg
Von Stauffenberg (left) with Hitler. Hitler was 5'9'', so that makes Von Stauffenberg at least 6' based on this photo. I think Cruise is around 5'8''.

[Jacie]

Concerning Colonel von Stauffenberg's motivation, I am quoting from this month's issue of WWII magazine's cover story, written from interviews with one of the count's sons, Berthold.

Claus Schenk aka Count von Stauffenberg was religious and philosophical, an accomplished horseman, loved poetry and was a popular career soldier but also anti-Nazi.

Aside: of Germany's prewar population of 61,000,000 people, only 1,000,000 were members of the Nazi party. Being anti-Nazi was not unusual even at the height of the war, though it was dangerous.

Colonel von Stauffenberg served as a staff officer from the start of the war in Poland, France, and Russia before being seriously wounded in Tunisia. Following convalescence at his family home in 1943, he returned to duty and it was then the conspiracy began to take shape.

The only members of his family who knew of the plot were an uncle and his brother. His wife shared his views of the Nazis but was unaware of the plot to kill Hitler. The day after the failed attempt, which was broadcast over the radio, the mother told her two oldest sons that her father was one of the conspirators and had been shot that day. As children they were bewildered since they were unaware of their parent's attitudes towards the Nazis.

Their mother and uncle were arrested that night. The children were moved to a children's home. They heard nothing about their mother's fate until Christmas when an aunt, Melitta von Stauffenberg showed up with presents and news that their mother was still alive.

Melitta was an aircraft designer and test pilot in the Luftwaffe, having earned an Iron Cross for her work with dive bombers. She had been arrested but knew nothing of the plot and had been released.

Miraculously, their mother was let go while being transported from one incareration to another, trying to stay ahead of the Red Army at this point, by the policeman in charge who only wanted to get to his own home.

After the war the family eventually was able to reclaim two family homes and other property. Berthold joined the German army serving during the Cold War, preparing to fight the Russians. He retired in 1994 with the rank of Major General.

[instigator]

While I actually enjoyed the movie, I did find the accents that they spoke to be troubling. While I think I might have preferred the entire movie to be sub-titled, I think just getting some consistency in accents (German preferably, but even all with American accents) would have helped. Instead I felt, I was hearing "Germans" speaking with American, English and I think even some Aussie sounding accents. It was disconcerting.

Maybe that's a small issue, but it did affect my overall comfort level with what I was watching.

[Veritas]

Here's my review: absolutely ****ing horrible movie that, aside from the ****ty work done by Tom Cruise, presents a gussied up, revised version of history that will unfortunately be believed by the same demographic cross-section of morons that also thought Stone's JFK enjoyed a shred of credibility. The recasting of these anti-Semitic Nazi ****ing slimeballs in a sympathetic light makes me so goddamn angry I about can't type straight

Read "Bodyguard of Lies" for the real story. Von S and the conspirators of Schwarze Kapelle held little concern for atrocities or for any of the other pablum spoonfed audiences by Valkyrie. Their concern was that (as I mentioned in another thread) Hitler had completely jumped the shark from a tactical and strategic perspective and that since the summer of 1942 had made numerous decisions driven by his prodigious ego, decisions that sealed the fate of the Third Reich.

[instigator]

I learned long ago to take movies as entertainment only and not much more. I know what you mean though. Too many people watch a movie like this as a documentary.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I just really enjoyed the movie and thought I walked away with some knowledge I didn't have before; and admittedly I'm not up on the history of that time and event.
That's fair. People "like" what they like. There's no wrong answer there.


I thought Cruise did a good job.Yikes! Not to be rude, but I just don't see how anyone could feel that way. My opinion regarding his...ahem..."performance"... was considerably in the opposite direction.


From the moment I first saw the trailer for Valkyrie back in the summer, I was flabbergasted at the casting of Tom f'n Cruise in this role. Who thought that was a good idea? Hollywood is obviously excellent at making movies, duh, but it's amazing how much they can also screw up incredible stories, that could almost tell themselves, so badly. Pearl Harbor and Windtalkers immediately come to mind.He cast himself in the movie. :)

[SteelCitySooner]

Man y'all are tough. I just liked the movie.. Totally from a layman's perspective. And yeah, I even thought Cruise did a good job...and I'm not a fan of the guy. I met him once. Actually while being a stand-in for Born on the Fourth of July. They shot the Vietnam seens in the Philippines and us Air Force guys that volunteered was givin permissive TDY to go up and be "soldiers" in the movie... I thought he was a total ***. But if you look real hard and squint, you can see the top of my head in the movie :)

[LosAngelesSooner]

*shrug*

Some people are easy sells. :)

[Jerk]

I don't think I'll see it. Why would anyone when the outcome is well-known? It's not like I'd be spoiling it for everyone if I said that the assassination attempt failed, Hitler lived, and the conspirators were executed :confused:

[NYC Poke]

So what? Everybody knew that Judge Doom was behind the murder of Marvin Acme, but that movie was still enjoyable.

[Harry Beanbag]

The problem is this is a story that should be told without Hollywood ****ing it up. Did that happen? I haven't seen it yet, but from what I've heard the answer would be no.

[RiddlerOK]

I question why they were even releasing this movie around Christmas.

And, while we are on the subject, this has to be one of the worst collections of Christmas movie releases in recent memory, "Benjamin Button" notwithstanding.