Total Margin of Victory - Point Spread

[L-Boy]

Us Gater fans have been reminded frequently of the impressive offensive stats of OU - yds, points, etc, and how this shows that UF just can't hang.

I thought maybe I would look at it a different way - what is the total margin of victory in all of the games:

OU: 383 points more than opponents

UF: 420 points more than opponents.

Hmmmm......

B..b..b...but what about Citadel??

OK, we can exclude that 51 pts against this weak sister program, but in all fairness then I think you exclude the 55 pts over Chattanooga, so you are back to the same place.

Also, one argument made by OU fans is that OU is better after their loss to TX. OU beat A&M by 38 points, a month after TX loss. Later in the year, TX beat A&M by 40. OK beat Kansas by 14 after loss to TX, TX beat KS later that year by 28. Now you can argue the other way with Texas Tech and Missouri, I get that. However, I don't know that it is as clear as some make it out to be that OU has been that much more dominant since the TX game.

[BoulderSooner79]

Who is saying UF can't hang? To me, the great thing about this game is there are so many unknowns because of lack of common opponents. Maybe it will be a nail-biter or maybe a handy victory either way. I honestly wouldn't be surprised at any of the 3 outcomes. Total margin of victory points is not very meaningful to me. It mostly shows how each team reacts after they have the game in hand. Both teams are 1 win/1 lose in the 2 games they were challenged and dominated the other 11 games. Final scores in those other 11 games don't really mean much.

Also, your assumption about OU being so much better since the UT game is flawed. They slowly got better as the season went on. They actually played their worst game against KSU 2 games after UT. They sputtered on offense at times and gave up big plays on defense and special teams. Fortunately, KSU was a bad team and OU scored 55 in the 1st half - go figure.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

gah, its getting worse.

[L-Boy]

Who is saying UF can't hang? To me, the great thing about this game is there are so many unknowns because of lack of common opponents. Maybe it will be a nail-biter or maybe a handy victory either way. I honestly wouldn't be surprised at any of the 3 outcomes. Total margin of victory points is not very meaningful to me. It mostly shows how each team reacts after they have the game in hand. Both teams are 1 win/1 lose in the 2 games they were challenged and dominated the other 11 games. Final scores in those other 11 games don't really mean much.

Also, your assumption about OU being so much better since the UT game is flawed. They slowly got better as the season went on. They actually played their worst game against KSU 2 games after UT. They sputtered on offense at times and gave up big plays on defense and special teams. Fortunately, KSU was a bad team and OU scored 55 in the 1st half - go figure.

I don't argue with you, but you are not making the same arguments as many sooner fans here. I agree, look at UF 2 years ago, their margin of victory stats or offensive stats were not that impressive, but they were good enough.

The only reason I bring up this argument is to counter the endless arguments on here about OUs offensive stats and points scored as evidence of OU's superiority. I understand not all in here are saying that, but some certainly are - those are who I am speaking to.

I agree, it can go either way, and it may be close, or may be a blow out either way. I tend to think UF will prevail for various reasons as I have articulated in other threads, but its just pure conjecture.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

you are so far off the path of statistical significance, you may never find your way back.

this is a single game between 2 good teams, not a best of 7 series. stats usually are a fairly good predictor of series, but in a one shot winner take all scenario, it typically comes down to three things - turnovers, execution, and desire.

[cheezyq]

I'd throw out the statistic that OU faced a tougher schedule according to several unbiased sources, but you'd only counter with the SEC being the ultra-superest conference, and it wouldn't go anywhere.

There was a great quote I got from a sig in this place one time, and I've clearly ignored it up to this point:

"Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level and defeat you with experience."

Signing off, the Cheez.

[L-Boy]

I'd throw out the statistic that OU faced a tougher schedule according to several unbiased sources, but you'd only counter with the SEC being the ultra-superest conference, and it wouldn't go anywhere.

There was a great quote I got from a sig in this place one time, and I've clearly ignored it up to this point:

"Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level and defeat you with experience."

Signing off, the Cheez.

I think your quote is highly appropriate, although perhaps not in the way you intended it. You really seem to be totally incapable of constructing an argument, so you substitute chest thumping and name calling.

Most of what I have heard on here is "Let us show you are offensive stats. Did you see our offensive stats, and did you see how many points our offense has scored???!!!" Now, bring up Margin of victory, and that argument is now completely irrelevant, but total offensive yds gained is relevant???

Of course, when all else failes, you always come back to the Big 12 is better than the SEC. That may be true, and power polls probably back that up this year, but again it is only supposition, and whether or not the SEC is marginally weaker than the Big 12 this year does not mean that OK is better than FL.

If you want to try to quantify all of it, margin of victory, strength of schedule, etc, the Sagarin "Predictor" score is as good as anything (not the Sagarin BCS computer poll that Sagarin states is not as accurate). The Sagarin predictor has UF #1, and OK#3. The predictor score has UF 2.3 pts ahead of OK. Not coincidentally, the Vegas line has UF up by 3 - the predictor is supposed to be a basis for determining lines.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt08.htm

OK strength of schedule is rated #8, and UF is #19.

Interestingly, although Bama was ranked higher than UF in the polls and BCS, the Sagarin predictor score had UF about 11-12 points ahead of Bama, and UF won by 11.

TCU shows as 3 pts ahead of BSU, and TCU won close. ND was 8 pts ahead of Hawaii.

Obviously, this is system isn't perfect, and point spreads can be wrong (UF is 2006, OK in 2000?) but its as good as anything out there in terms of trying to quantify all the data and assimilate into something. All you and some others (mostly others, because you really don't construct arguments per se, you just flame) here are doing is taking pieces of the whole and arguing those pieces of the total pie.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

All you and some others (mostly others, because you really don't construct arguments per se, you just flame) here are doing is taking pieces of the whole and arguing those pieces of the total pie.

you mean like the whole "our team is faster because look at this picture of our times?" argument? all of it is supposition, no matter how you slice it.

[cheezyq]

I think your quote is highly appropriate, although perhaps not in the way you intended it. You really seem to be totally incapable of constructing an argument, so you substitute chest thumping and name calling.

Most of what I have heard on here is "Let us show you are offensive stats. Did you see our offensive stats, and did you see how many points our offense has scored???!!!" Now, bring up Margin of victory, and that argument is now completely irrelevant, but total offensive yds gained is relevant???

Of course, when all else failes, you always come back to the Big 12 is better than the SEC. That may be true, and power polls probably back that up this year, but again it is only supposition, and whether or not the SEC is marginally weaker than the Big 12 this year does not mean that OK is better than FL.

If you want to try to quantify all of it, margin of victory, strength of schedule, etc, the Sagarin "Predictor" score is as good as anything (not the Sagarin BCS computer poll that Sagarin states is not as accurate). The Sagarin predictor has UF #1, and OK#3. The predictor score has UF 2.3 pts ahead of OK. Not coincidentally, the Vegas line has UF up by 3 - the predictor is supposed to be a basis for determining lines.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt08.htm

OK strength of schedule is rated #8, and UF is #19.

Interestingly, although Bama was ranked higher than UF in the polls and BCS, the Sagarin predictor score had UF about 11-12 points ahead of Bama, and UF won by 11.

TCU shows as 3 pts ahead of BSU, and TCU won close. ND was 8 pts ahead of Hawaii.

Obviously, this is system isn't perfect, and point spreads can be wrong (UF is 2006, OK in 2000?) but its as good as anything out there in terms of trying to quantify all the data and assimilate into something. All you and some others (mostly others, because you really don't construct arguments per se, you just flame) here are doing is taking pieces of the whole and arguing those pieces of the total pie.

Your points in the first three paragraphs fall on deaf ears here, as I've not said a single thing remotely resembling what you said there. If you want my argument for who will win, in a nutshell, go to the thread you created and read post #18. http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127269. You'll see nothing but facts and football. No, "we're superfast", or anything based on conjecture. I'm not saying I'm completely right, but the principles behind my analysis are sound. OU has to play solid defense and force turnovers. FU has to keep up with OU and not turn the ball over.

I'm not going to your Sagarin comments. I only used SOS in response to your margin of victory argument. I don't really care anyway.

I've stated my case. I've used facts and statistics. I've used examples from games I've actually seen and completely understand.

I don't see how you can reasonably claim that all we do here is flame when every argument you and your posse have ever posted on this site follows 2 basic claims:

1. OU is slow.
2. Defenses in the Big 12 suck.

But then again, the FU fans here have clearly established that they're unreasonable anyway. Some, even yourself, may have an occasional flash of logic or insight. But on the whole, the FU posters here have been nothing but FU track speed and SEC pimps.

Besides that, if you're looking for a bunch of people to pump sunshine up your arrogant FU rear ends, and you ever had the remote thought that you could find that here, then who really is the flaming idiot?

[Leroy Lizard]

There is no way to substantiate which team is faster. No way. No how. No player in college football is going to turn a 40-yard dash in under 4.3 seconds.

[P3 Gator]

There is no way to substantiate which team is faster. No way. No how. No player in college football is going to turn a 40-yard dash in under 4.3 seconds.

Could a pre-college freshman turn in a 10.01 100 at the Olympic Trials?

[tulsaoilerfan]

Could a pre-college freshman turn in a 10.01 100 at the Olympic Trials?

Since u guys keep bringing this up, how did his other 100 times compare to this one? I've seen him play and i know he's fast, but when you get on a football field, in pads, is there really anyone out there that can run a 4.3?

[Iam4OUru]

I think your quote is highly appropriate, although perhaps not in the way you intended it. You really seem to be totally incapable of constructing an argument, so you substitute chest thumping and name calling.

Most of what I have heard on here is "Let us show you are offensive stats. Did you see our offensive stats, and did you see how many points our offense has scored???!!!" Now, bring up Margin of victory, and that argument is now completely irrelevant, but total offensive yds gained is relevant???

Of course, when all else failes, you always come back to the Big 12 is better than the SEC. That may be true, and power polls probably back that up this year, but again it is only supposition, and whether or not the SEC is marginally weaker than the Big 12 this year does not mean that OK is better than FL.

If you want to try to quantify all of it, margin of victory, strength of schedule, etc, the Sagarin "Predictor" score is as good as anything (not the Sagarin BCS computer poll that Sagarin states is not as accurate). The Sagarin predictor has UF #1, and OK#3. The predictor score has UF 2.3 pts ahead of OK. Not coincidentally, the Vegas line has UF up by 3 - the predictor is supposed to be a basis for determining lines.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt08.htm

OK strength of schedule is rated #8, and UF is #19.

Interestingly, although Bama was ranked higher than UF in the polls and BCS, the Sagarin predictor score had UF about 11-12 points ahead of Bama, and UF won by 11.

TCU shows as 3 pts ahead of BSU, and TCU won close. ND was 8 pts ahead of Hawaii.

Obviously, this is system isn't perfect, and point spreads can be wrong (UF is 2006, OK in 2000?) but its as good as anything out there in terms of trying to quantify all the data and assimilate into something. All you and some others (mostly others, because you really don't construct arguments per se, you just flame) here are doing is taking pieces of the whole and arguing those pieces of the total pie.


OU in 2008? :D

[tulsaoilerfan]

Could a pre-college freshman turn in a 10.01 100 at the Olympic Trials?

From what little i could find in the short time i looked, it seems like this was one of those fluke runs, albeit very impressive; most of the other times i see mentioned are in the 10.3 range, which is still good; could have have just run the race of his lifetime on that day? Feel free to post any more of his times if you can find them

[L-Boy]

From what little i could find in the short time i looked, it seems like this was one of those fluke runs, albeit very impressive; most of the other times i see mentioned are in the 10.3 range, which is still good; could have have just run the race of his lifetime on that day? Feel free to post any more of his times if you can find them

Generally in any sort of competitve sport involving timed races the fastest time an athlete performs is quoted, not some sort of average. This is the first time I have ever seen it argued that a personal best is a "fluke".

[L-Boy]

There is no way to substantiate which team is faster. No way. No how. No player in college football is going to turn a 40-yard dash in under 4.3 seconds.

I would agree you can't definitely substantiate it. You can look at the available evidence and draw your own conclusions.

While I agree it is very rare, I don't see how you can say no college football player can post a sub 4.3. On rare occasion it happens in the NFL combine, and a couple of these guys may be fast enough to do it.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Generally in any sort of competitve sport involving timed races the fastest time an athlete performs is quoted, not some sort of average. This is the first time I have ever seen it argued that a personal best is a "fluke".

Has he done it again, or even come close to that time, again? It's a simple question; or, to use another sport, if Ben Wallace somehow scored 40 points in a game, does that make him a 40 PPG scorer?

[tulsaoilerfan]

I would agree you can't definitely substantiate it. You can look at the available evidence and draw your own conclusions.

While I agree it is very rare, I don't see how you can say no college football player can post a sub 4.3. On rare occasion it happens in the NFL combine, and a couple of these guys may be fast enough to do it.

I don't think there's a football player around that could run a LEGIT sub 4.3 in full football gear

[L-Boy]

I don't think there's a football player around that could run a LEGIT sub 4.3 in full football gear

what does that have to do with the price of tea in china? That is not how they measure the 40.

[L-Boy]

Has he done it again, or even come close to that time, again? It's a simple question; or, to use another sport, if Ben Wallace somehow scored 40 points in a game, does that make him a 40 PPG scorer?


I don't know, but again, quoted times are almost always personal bests. The fact that he ran a 10.01 is undisputed. Whether his 2nd fastest time is 10.2 or 10.3, so what? At his age, he is probably going to get faster, not slower.

[P3 Gator]

From what little i could find in the short time i looked, it seems like this was one of those fluke runs, albeit very impressive; most of the other times i see mentioned are in the 10.3 range, which is still good; could have have just run the race of his lifetime on that day? Feel free to post any more of his times if you can find them

He ran a 10.12 the same day and a wind aided 10.03 at a meet in Clermont (FL). Just a quick look though.

Demps (http://fl.milesplit.us/articles/18840)

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

i think it goes back to our argument that speed is nice, but it isn't necessary for a player to be pretty good.

here is an interesting story for you - the best receiver we've ever had at our school ran a 4.9 maybe in high school. we took him over a kid that ran around a 5.0 that we wanted to walk on.

that kid who ran a 4.9 was a 1st round NFL draft pick, that kid that ran 5.0 is the most productive WR in the NFL.

[RiddlerOK]

OK smart guy, if Demps is so fast, speedy, awesome, blazing or whatever.....then how come Tebow carries the ball so much?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

oh, and do you want to know why no one is even bothering to discuss anything with you? mainly because we wasted too much bandwidth on "talks in circles city gator".

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

OK smart guy, if Demps is so fast, speedy, awesome, blazing or whatever.....then how come Tebow carries the ball so much?

i'll take that one for chris

its because they have balance in their running game.

[L-Boy]

oh, and do you want to know why no one is even bothering to discuss anything with you? mainly because we wasted too much bandwidth on "talks in circles city gator".

Who are you referring to? Seems like these threads continue to generate activity.

As far as speed, I start a thread on margin of victory, to try to negate this infatuation with OU's ppg and total yardage stats, and once again, the sooners turn it into a discussion about speed. It is you guys that keep bringing it up.

Even CCG said pretty plainly that UF may win or they may lose. He was only making a case that UF has superior team speed (which has been argued ad nauseum both ways to the point of ridiculousness). All else equal, speed is a positive, but its certainly not the only determinant. The only reason I keep arguing the speed issue is that some OU posters are determined to tear down the argument that UF speed may be superior, and try to do so by asserting that UF world class 100 meter sprinter runs a 4.46, and that Usain Bolt probably runs a 4.39 40 (compared to an OU LB who may or may not run a 4.34). These are absurd arguments.

[OKC-SLC]

God bless, could January 8 get here already?

I'm so sick of hearing every statistical manipulation of each team's season full of data.

I'll GUARANTEE everyone of one thing: This game and its end result will defy statistical trends up to this point. Maybe OU wins or maybe not. But my feeling is that the end result of this game will prove to be something that all these dumb statistics could not have predicted.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

travis lewis reminds me of that chick off sienfeld - the one who was hot/ugly depending on the lighting - he looks fast at home and slow as crap on the road.

the speed argument is tiring, mainly because you aren't going to know whether it will impact the game until 2 quarters into it. demps looks fast on the field, but then so does that 3 foot midget WR kstate has. i personally think that the kstate midget has better acceleration than demps in the 0-15 yard range, after that demps smokes the guy.

[MiccoMacey]

Total margin of victory would only count if neither program shut down the scoring in the third or fourth quarter.

As it is, OU scored barely more in the fourth quarter than their opponents did. Margin of victory gets tossed out on it's ear.

[Dan Thompson]

I give up, who's got the angle today. Don't worry it will change faster than the Oklahoma weather.

[fadada1]

i'm sure this kid is fast. but let's be realistic, most of these kids are fast. if they weren't, they'd be playing D3 ball somewhere.

here's a differnt perspective - so he ran a 10.01. he was training SPECIFICALLY for that race. if any of you morons know anything about racing (running, swimming, jumping, humping, etc...), you know that there is a serious TAPER period where you cut yardage and add rest - maybe by 75% in some cases. this allows your muscles to heal (for lack of a better word) and be ready for the race. to use a different sport reference, why do you think michael phelps' accomplishment was so unbelievably impressive?? he swam 17 races in 8 days (or something like that). not only were his muscles abused from the racing, but his taper was beginning to wear off. if you only have one race to worry about, you can train specifically for that 10 second burst.

now, to be fair, all the guys playing in 2 weeks will be on a level playing foeld relative to each other. however, while they've had a month off, they are still training for a COLLISION sport, not a 10 second race, and their bodies will be run down from a season of beatings.

[L-Boy]

God bless, could January 8 get here already?

I'm so sick of hearing every statistical manipulation of each team's season full of data.

I'll GUARANTEE everyone of one thing: This game and its end result will defy statistical trends up to this point. Maybe OU wins or maybe not. But my feeling is that the end result of this game will prove to be something that all these dumb statistics could not have predicted.

I don't disagree. Most of the statistics quoted are usually on offense, and mostly ignore the defense. Plus, when you mix up conferences it is a crapshoot. Looking at prior national championships, many times it does not turn out as expected. No one thought UF would get beat by 40+ against Nebraska. No one thought OU would beat FSU, in a 13-2 uggh fest. No one thought USC would beat OU so one sidedly. No one thought that UF would run Ohio State out of the stadium. I am not sure most people thought TX could not run with USC. No one thought Bama would beat highflying Miami back in 1992.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

now, to be fair, all the guys playing in 2 weeks will be on a level playing foeld relative to each other. however, while they've had a month off, they are still training for a COLLISION sport, not a 10 second race, and their bodies will be run down from a season of beatings.

which is one of the odd things about how florida is preparing for our offense - by running more. you can't expect to go X number of straight months training one way and then expect to start training for endurance for a month and expect it to not have an effect - especially on a DL's playing weight.

[RedstickSooner]

Us Gater fans have been reminded frequently of the impressive offensive stats of OU - yds, points, etc, and how this shows that UF just can't hang.

I thought maybe I would look at it a different way - what is the total margin of victory in all of the games:

OU: 383 points more than opponents

UF: 420 points more than opponents.

Hmmmm......

B..b..b...but what about Citadel??

OK, we can exclude that 51 pts against this weak sister program, but in all fairness then I think you exclude the 55 pts over Chattanooga, so you are back to the same place.

Also, one argument made by OU fans is that OU is better after their loss to TX. OU beat A&M by 38 points, a month after TX loss. Later in the year, TX beat A&M by 40. OK beat Kansas by 14 after loss to TX, TX beat KS later that year by 28. Now you can argue the other way with Texas Tech and Missouri, I get that. However, I don't know that it is as clear as some make it out to be that OU has been that much more dominant since the TX game.

Awesome. Point spread. Trying to figure out which team is better based on how many points they scored relative to who they played. I bet that gives a pretty decent comparison of quality.

I bet *nobody* has ever thought of that before.

Oh, wait.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt08.htm

When all you do to evaluate teams is look at score margin PERIOD, and look at every single team, Florida is better than us. By about two points out of 100. Florida's "predictor" rating is 100.47. Ours is 98.13.

If you're going to do something like this, why not go ahead and look at what the truly dedicated nerds have already done?

[L-Boy]

Awesome. Point spread. Trying to figure out which team is better based on how many points they scored relative to who they played. I bet that gives a pretty decent comparison of quality.

I bet *nobody* has ever thought of that before.

Oh, wait.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt08.htm

When all you do to evaluate teams is look at score margin PERIOD, and look at every single team, Florida is better than us. By about two points out of 100. Florida's "predictor" rating is 100.47. Ours is 98.13.

If you're going to do something like this, why not go ahead and look at what the truly dedicated nerds have already done?


If you have read about 5 posts later I did exactly what you are suggesting:




I think your quote is highly appropriate, although perhaps not in the way you intended it. You really seem to be totally incapable of constructing an argument, so you substitute chest thumping and name calling.

Most of what I have heard on here is "Let us show you are offensive stats. Did you see our offensive stats, and did you see how many points our offense has scored???!!!" Now, bring up Margin of victory, and that argument is now completely irrelevant, but total offensive yds gained is relevant???

Of course, when all else failes, you always come back to the Big 12 is better than the SEC. That may be true, and power polls probably back that up this year, but again it is only supposition, and whether or not the SEC is marginally weaker than the Big 12 this year does not mean that OK is better than FL.

If you want to try to quantify all of it, margin of victory, strength of schedule, etc, the Sagarin "Predictor" score is as good as anything (not the Sagarin BCS computer poll that Sagarin states is not as accurate). The Sagarin predictor has UF #1, and OK#3. The predictor score has UF 2.3 pts ahead of OK. Not coincidentally, the Vegas line has UF up by 3 - the predictor is supposed to be a basis for determining lines.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt08.htm

OK strength of schedule is rated #8, and UF is #19.

Interestingly, although Bama was ranked higher than UF in the polls and BCS, the Sagarin predictor score had UF about 11-12 points ahead of Bama, and UF won by 11.

TCU shows as 3 pts ahead of BSU, and TCU won close. ND was 8 pts ahead of Hawaii.

Obviously, this is system isn't perfect, and point spreads can be wrong (UF is 2006, OK in 2000?) but its as good as anything out there in terms of trying to quantify all the data and assimilate into something. All you and some others (mostly others, because you really don't construct arguments per se, you just flame) here are doing is taking pieces of the whole and arguing those pieces of the total pie.

[tulsaoilerfan]

what does that have to do with the price of tea in china? That is not how they measure the 40.

Read what JKM posted about Mark Clayton and Wes Welker; also, Curtis Lofton, who's started for the Falcons since Day 1, ran maybe a 4.7 40 at OU and made over 140 tackles last season in his only year as a starter; the point you guys just don't get is speed is always a great thing to have, but it doesn't guarantee you a damn thing when you step on the football field

[L-Boy]

Read what JKM posted about Mark Clayton and Wes Welker; also, Curtis Lofton, who's started for the Falcons since Day 1, ran maybe a 4.7 40 at OU and made over 140 tackles last season in his only year as a starter; the point you guys just don't get is speed is always a great thing to have, but it doesn't guarantee you a damn thing when you step on the football field


I am done with the speed argument. Some of us Gator fans think we have an edge there, and there is some evidence to support that. It seems most OU fans either disagree or think that it is irrelevant, and there are some good counter-arguments. I will say I have seen a lot of strange counter arguments, but this board is no different than most boards in people posting arguments that make no sense.

I am not sure what there is left to debate. Again, it seems like the Sooner fans want to keep debating it, evidence the length of this thread.

[fossil]

Could a pre-college freshman turn in a 10.01 100 at the Olympic Trials?

;) Here comes the track speed stuff again. Not much chance anyone on this board gives a rats *** about how fast he was in the 100 meters.

[stoopified]

If speed is what the the game is all about why not have A 1100 YARD RELAY FEATURING THE FASTEST 11 players on each team?............Wait a minute,this is football,why not just decide ithe game on the field?

[Circle City Gator]

From what little i could find in the short time i looked, it seems like this was one of those fluke runs, albeit very impressive; most of the other times i see mentioned are in the 10.3 range, which is still good; could have have just run the race of his lifetime on that day? Feel free to post any more of his times if you can find them


10.3 range? You have no idea what you're talking about.

10.12 and 10.03 (wind-aided) (http://fl.milesplit.us/articles/18835)


Jeff Demps, recent graduate of South Lake HS and soon-to-be Florida Gator, is competing today at the Olympic Trials in Oregon. Out of the second heat of the first round, he advanced to the quarterfinals with a time of 10.12. The time of 10.03 he ran two weeks ago in Clermont was the best time in the history of the state (and the nation) for a high schooler, but the wind guage put him just above the legal limit--negating his record.

However, with the wind legal tonight in Eugene, Oregon and the clock reading 10.12, Jeff holds the uncontested #1 spot on Florida's all-time 100 meter dash list. Ironically, he unseats another athlete who 32 years ago was competing at this same meet. The previous record by Houston McTear was set at the 1976 Trials at 10.16. Jeff's time also puts him #2 All-Time in the nation for a wind legal time. Congrats, Jeff!

10.17 (http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_highschool_varsity/2008/04/demps-time-is-f.html)


Make no mistake, when Groveland South Lake's Jeff Demps ran a 10.17 seconds to win the 100 meters in the high school division at the Florida Relays in Gainesville two weeks ago it was historically fast -- the fifth fastest 100 ever run by a high schooler in the United States and second fastest by a high school sprinter from Florida -- according to the all-time high school rankings by Track and Field News. It also is the fastest outdoor time so far this year by a high school sprinter according to DyeStat's U.S. No. 1 Performances rankings.

10.12 (in the first heat) (http://blogs.usatoday.com/preprally/2008/06/demps-smashes-r.html)


The top boys high school athlete participating in the Trials got out of the blocks nearly even with Gay in their semifinal heat and ran 10.01 seconds to finish second. Gay won in an American Record 9.77. The aiding wind of 1.6 meters per second (about 3.5 miles per hour) was well under the allowable of 2.0 m.p.s.

...

Demps ran a legal 10.12 in his first round heat on Saturday to move-up to No. 2 on the all-time list and signal he was ready for more.

As for the argument about running a 4.3 "in pads," well, it's moronic. Nobody runs their 40s in pads.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

As for the argument about running a 4.3 "in pads," well, it's moronic. Nobody runs their 40s in pads.

yet, for some assinine reason, they play the game of football in them...

[Circle City Gator]

yet, for some assinine reason, they play the game of football in them...

That's true, and your guys who run their 40s in shorts and T-shirts will play, in pads, against our guys who run their 40s in shorts and T-shirts, who will also play in pads.

[tigepilot]

yet, for some assinine reason, they play the game of football in them...


I've never thought much of the '40 time' way of determining player's speed. It certainly hints at speed but it doesn't seem as relevant as it could be. I'd be MUCH more interested in what a player could do in full pads for 10 yards for most positions... maybe up to 20 yards for some positions but no more.

[Scott D]

That's true, and your guys who run their 40s in shorts and T-shirts will play, in pads, against our guys who run their 40s in shorts and T-shirts, who will also play in pads.

and amazingly, 40 times mean very little in the actual game of football. Ask Barry Sanders and Emmitt Smith what not having blazing 40 times meant in their football careers.

[OU_Sooners75]

Us Gater fans have been reminded frequently of the impressive offensive stats of OU - yds, points, etc, and how this shows that UF just can't hang.

I thought maybe I would look at it a different way - what is the total margin of victory in all of the games:

OU: 383 points more than opponents

UF: 420 points more than opponents.

Hmmmm......

B..b..b...but what about Citadel??

OK, we can exclude that 51 pts against this weak sister program, but in all fairness then I think you exclude the 55 pts over Chattanooga, so you are back to the same place.

Also, one argument made by OU fans is that OU is better after their loss to TX. OU beat A&M by 38 points, a month after TX loss. Later in the year, TX beat A&M by 40. OK beat Kansas by 14 after loss to TX, TX beat KS later that year by 28. Now you can argue the other way with Texas Tech and Missouri, I get that. However, I don't know that it is as clear as some make it out to be that OU has been that much more dominant since the TX game.

Considering OU has beaten more ranked teams than Florida has faced, I will take the 37 less points OU has in the MOV category.

#7 Texas Tech, #11 TCU, #12 Cincy, #13 OkSU, #21 Missouri vs....

#4 Bama, #15 Georgia, #25 Ole Miss.

[tulsaoilerfan]

and amazingly, 40 times mean very little in the actual game of football. Ask Barry Sanders and Emmitt Smith what not having blazing 40 times meant in their football careers.

Don't forget Jerry Rice either; funny how i posted this exact same thing in another thread that was completely ignored by the Florida track team coaches on here;)

[Scott D]

Don't forget Jerry Rice either; funny how i posted this exact same thing in another thread that was completely ignored by the Florida track team coaches on here;)

Well beside Rice you could throw Tim Brown into that picture, and Walter Payton.

[fadada1]

steve largent sucked as well.

[tulsaoilerfan]

U guys remember Alexander Wright? He was one of the fastest guys around and couldn't play football for ****

[RedstickSooner]

That's true, and your guys who run their 40s in shorts and T-shirts will play, in pads, against our guys who run their 40s in shorts and T-shirts, who will also play in pads.

The point about 40 times was that they are inaccurate because we don't measure them in full football gear -- and how a given runner responds to the weight and restriction of all that gear makes a great deal of difference in how quickly that runner can move.

And, different runners do NOT respond the same way to that extra encuberance. Two players, at the same position, with identical 40 times, can have VERY different game speeds.

40 times are handy primarily because they're all we've got. Measuring game speed is a subjective thing, so there's not much point in bothering. Nobody will ever agree on your measurements, and you'll never agree with theirs.

The real point is that just posting 40 times for every member of a given team won't mean anything. And you particularly don't want to hang your hat on the notion that a track-meet star is likely to translate that track speed onto the football field. If anything, a track runner is liable to lose a lot more speed than a pure football player, because a football player isn't ever going to have tried to optimize his shorts-and-t-shirt-speed. (yeah, I know, they don't wear shorts and t-shirts for track now. They wear those gay unitard things. But that's not the point.)

Now, the real question is this: Why am I responding to this dead thread, when the entire Florida speed thing had largely been abandoned as a topic of argument? Frankly, I have no idea why. It just bothered me when I dug it up, I guess.

[withrmanOU]

Who cares what time those jokers run!! We're all heart heart motha F#$#$'s!!!!!!!!!!!

[BigGobbler]

Who cares what time those jokers run!! We're all heart heart motha F#$#$'s!!!!!!!!!!!

What that guy said ^^^^^

[theresonly1OU]

Considering OU has beaten more ranked teams than Florida has faced, I will take the 37 less points OU has in the MOV category.

#7 Texas Tech, #11 TCU, #12 Cincy, #13 OkSU, #21 Missouri vs....

#4 Bama, #15 Georgia, #25 Ole Miss.

when did florida beat ole miss?

and OP, keep grasping at straws; we'll see what's what come tomorrow.

And as for all those 40/100 times, its a good thing we get to settle all of this on the football field; if it was a track meet they would kick our ***

[Mark_in_Tulsa]

Us Gater fans have been reminded frequently of the impressive offensive stats of OU - yds, points, etc, and how this shows that UF just can't hang.

I thought maybe I would look at it a different way - what is the total margin of victory in all of the games:

OU: 383 points more than opponents

UF: 420 points more than opponents.

Hmmmm......

B..b..b...but what about Citadel??

OK, we can exclude that 51 pts against this weak sister program, but in all fairness then I think you exclude the 55 pts over Chattanooga, so you are back to the same place.

Also, one argument made by OU fans is that OU is better after their loss to TX. OU beat A&M by 38 points, a month after TX loss. Later in the year, TX beat A&M by 40. OK beat Kansas by 14 after loss to TX, TX beat KS later that year by 28. Now you can argue the other way with Texas Tech and Missouri, I get that. However, I don't know that it is as clear as some make it out to be that OU has been that much more dominant since the TX game.

How about we just look at the first half. Because I'm sure we both can agree that both teams almost 100% played the starters.

OU Total Margin of Victory for the 1st half is 256.

FL Total Margin of Victory for the 1st half is227.
This is a difference of 29 points in favor of OU

But lets look at the first 3 Q
OU TMV is 320

FL TMV is 288

This is now a difference of 32 points in favor of OU.

But when you look at the total game the TMV favors FL. And the reason for that is the 4Q is your 2nd highest scoring Q. Actually 19 points away from being your highest scoring Q.
And the 4Q is by far our lowest scoring Q due to us shutting it down.

Do you still want to use Total Margin of Victory to see who should win this game?

[sooners2k3]

i heard the speed channel is gonna be covering florida's offensive drives