The myth of McCoy doing more with less and Mack whining

[Skysooner]

I am sick and tired of hearing that McCoy was doing more with less. If it was less, it wasn't much less. Was UT not recruiting top 10 classes? Did they somehow bust on all recruits?

Also the whorns have been going on and on about how classy Mack was to not
plead their case more. If he was that classy why did I see a quote in this week's SI and then hear him on ESPN radio today? The whorns can take that "class" and shove it.

[oumartin]

yes, in fact this thread needs a duplicate ;)

[badger]

A few things.

1- If Texas wants to say that their talent around Colt sucks that's fine with me. Less bashing we have to do if they take care of that.

2- All Texas has to show for this season is a Big 12 South CO-title. If that's not doing less with more... oh wait... are they doing less with less now?

3- Whining got Texas nowhere except the absolute worst BCS bowl. Wow!

In other words, words were meaningless. let's just point to our beautiful new Heisman trophy in the Switzer Center and in a month, our beautiful new crystal football and in a little under a year, they can point at their 45-35 plane banner and see if any of us give a d@mn. :D

[OU341]

I guess that Quan Cosby, Jordan Shippley, and Malcolm Williams are not weapons anymore. The only advantage that Bradford had was that he got an extra game and had a more consistent running game.

[Curly Bill]

The main advantage that Sam had is that he's a better player. We all knew that, and now we know others know it as well.

[oumartin]

but tebow is the best college football player ever, plus he can cure the blind and got caught with a tranny.

[OU341]

They were all great player. I don't think you can say he is necessarily better than the others. He was more successful in his system this season. They were all deserving and there is no need to act like Sam blew them out of the water because he didn't.

[batonrougesooner]

Put another way, I guess Texas gives scholarships in the state of Texas to all of OU's left-overs.

[Curly Bill]

They were all great player. I don't think you can say he is necessarily better than the others. He was more successful in his system this season. They were all deserving and there is no need to act like Sam blew them out of the water because he didn't.

...and where in this thread did anyone say Sam blew them out of the water?

...and thanks for trying to tell us how to conduct our business. :rolleyes:

[Skysooner]

Actually I wouldn't have had a problem with McCoy winning it (big problem with Tebow), but I did get sick of all the bs of the "no name" UT offensive line.

[OU341]

I am not tying to tell you how to conduct your business and i agree after i re-read your post that you did not say he blew the others out(my bad there). All I am saying is that they were all deserving (Sam the most, but I would understand it if McCoy or Teblow had won).

[Skysooner]

So nothing about Mack' continuing to politic? He needs to let it go already.

[MissouriSooner]

So nothing about Mack' continuing to politic? He needs to let it go already.

Mack's not gonna quit whining. It's what he does best. I am just thankful - to Watson Brown - that OU didn't end up with Mack as our head coach, which likely would have happened if his doofus brother Watson hadn't lobbied for the job. Thank goodness for the way things turned out.

[Texas_Fight]

So Mack complimenting McCoy during Colt's portion of the show is now considered "politicking"?

[JLEW1818]

but tebow is the best college football player ever, plus he can cure the blind and got caught with a tranny.


and he circumcised himself

[Crucifax Autumn]

You know, all I'm thinking reading this is that more people think Sam was in the top 2 than any of the 3. He was barely behind in first place votes and way ahead of Tebow on 2nd place votes...you know???? He wan, therefore the majority of voters felt he was pretty damn good, slightly more people thought Tebow was best, but way more seemed to think Tebow was 3rd best.

Kinda weird...that's what the vote turned out to be. Musta been the three way tiebreaker to just give it to the Sooner. Just like every other achievement in OU history. I'm so glad that we have a history of the media being biased for us so we always win the close decisions!

:rolleyes: :P

[SOONERxWife73]

anybody notice how sam was cut out of the shots in pre pres shots. yep they got herbie, colt, tebow and it was like, oops, better pan over to bradford. bunch of ******bags. also thought it was strange that they had stoops and meyer interviewed together, but had the whiner all by himself to blow smoke and continue to politic. hilarius. the guy just doesn't quit. mack is a real tool.

[Skysooner]

So Mack complimenting McCoy during Colt's portion of the show is now considered "politicking"?

I'm talking about the radio show, and it is where Mack was talking about the "flawed" system that didn't use head-to-head as a first tiebreaker to decide the Big 12 co-champ. Earth to Mack....head-to-head is the first tiebreaker, it just isn't used in a 3-way tie when all 3 teams beat the other. Read my original post and quit trolling.

[badger]

If they just determined it solely on the highest number of first place votes, we'd already have No. 5 with McDonald.

:P He could have chest thumped Sims on stage while Billy waved a towel over his head yelling "Boomer."

[dog-knee]

I've been listening to a number of the so-called experts talking about how Colt has a less stellar cast around him than does either Tebow or Bradford. Could we get someone to provide us with a comparison of the respective recruiting class rankings for saxet, UF, and OU for the past five years or so?

I'm thinking that it would reveal what we already know; namely, that Mack the clapper does a great job at bringing in as talented a group of football players as any program in the country year after year. There are a number of questions about the group playing for him this year: did they get to saxet, and then just get worse? Were they over-rated? Or, is the "lesser cast" argument just a convenient way for the saxet fans to whine some more?

[TexasLidig8r]

I've been listening to a number of the so-called experts talking about how Colt has a less stellar cast around him than does either Tebow or Bradford. Could we get someone to provide us with a comparison of the respective recruiting class rankings for saxet, UF, and OU for the past five years or so?



Actually, it's been done a number of times on here. I believe in the last 8 years, OU's class has been rated higher than Texas' recruiting class in 5 of those years.

The "talent" around both Colt and Sam pertains a great deal to experience, particularly on the offensive line. All 5 of your starters on the offensive line were seniors. The offensive line, moreso than other positions in the game, need continuity and cohesiveness. Your team had that this year.

By way of example, look at Colt. He's redshirt freshman year, Texas had 3 All Americans on the offensive line returning from 2005. As a result, Colt's freshman stats were very good (in fact, a freshman record at that time for touchdowns).

Last year, those 3 were gone, another was gone, the offensive line had injuries and Colt's stats were down.

This year, the entire line, for the most part, returned, had the entire spring to work together, just a few injuries and once again, Colt's stats were tremendous.

Even still, our offensive line was statistically not as proficient as yours... Colt, a more mobile quarterback than Bradford, was sacked 22 times. Bradford was sacked... 11.

Then, look at the tight ends. Texas' best was injured against Rice and missed the rest of the year. (Our best tight end declared for the No Fun League last year). That left us with a freshman and converted tackle. You have an All American candidate at tight end who will play on Sundays.

Wide receivers.. Colt and Ship run great routes, have great hands, but don't have the athletic talent that your 3 top receivers have. Colt and Ship are both possession receivers. Our speed and talent are very young.

Running back.. you have 2, 1000 yard rushers. Texas' best back plays for the KC Chiefs. Our next best back, Whittacker, was hurt for a great part of the season.

Hard to argue that Bradford didn't have more athletic skill players and a more established, cohesive, experienced offensive line isn't it?

[swardboy]

By way of example, look at Colt. He's redshirt freshman year, Texas had 3 All Americans on the offensive line returning from 2005. As a result, Colt's freshman stats were very good (in fact, a freshman record at that time for touchdowns).

The guy who broke Colt's freshman records had ZERO all-americans and a host of first-time starters on the line. He did more with less....

[o0Dan0o]

I'll agree that McCoy didn't have quite the same talent around him, were better on o-line and the backfield, but it's not as apples-to-oranges as everyone wants to make it out to be.

Now if McCoy had done this while playing for, say, Baylor, I would agree.

Also, McCoy may be somewhat more mobile, but Sam has both speed and quickness, you just don't get many chances to see it.
Dan

[PLaw]

Frankly, I think all three were deserving of the stiff arm trophy. I really couldn't complain had either McCoy or Tebow won this year. At the end of the day, Sam had what could be the most prolific year of any college QB ever.

As far as texass have less talent - that's bs. According to the recruiting gurus, most services had texass' recruiting classes ranked ahead of OU's for the past five years.

If texass has "less", then all of the recruiting services are worthless.

BOOMER

[SouthFortySooner]

I'm trying to "nutshell" all of this and it seems to me that. We are better than Texas but they think they are better than us. Really. Truthfully. :D

[TexasLidig8r]

I'm trying to "nutshell" all of this and it seems to me that. We are better than Texas but they think they are better than us. Really. Truthfully. :D

It's a shame you never got the opportunity to prove that on the field.

Oh wait...

[A Sooner in Texas]

Man, you whorns will live and die on that 45-35 for years to come, won't you? Meanwhile, we have a national championship to prepare for with our Heisman Trophy winner.

[TopDawg]

You'd be crazy to deny that Bradford has more weapons than McCoy. I'd take our offensive squad over Texas' any day. We have the more talented backfield, we have the more talented tight ends, we have the more talented offensive line. And while I think Shipley might be the best wide receiver of the bunch, I'd take our WR core over Texas'.

Is it a huge difference? No.
Does it mean that Texas doesn't have weapons? No.
Does it meant that Bradford shouldn't have won the Heisman because he had weapons around him? No.
But should the talent surrounding someone enter the discussion when comparing achievements? Yes.

I don't see why people are so hesitant to concede that Bradford has more weapons than McCoy. Not only does the evidence support it, but it means that perhaps our QBs are both equally talented, but that we have the better RBs, OL, TEs and WRs. Why would you want to deny that?

I suppose you'd rather say that we only have a better QB?

[badger]

The fun thing is that Texas cannot have it both ways. Either Colt McCoy is so awesome for having done so much despite having a crappy team around him, or Texas is an awesome team and Colt is just a reflection of the talent he's surrounded by.

It is often said that Bradford is humble and willing to give his teammates all the credit, which is what made him such an appealing candidate for many votes to choose. However, you never really heard Colt dispute any talk of him not being surrounded by talent and doing it all himself, because we heard that a lot. Way to throw your teammates under the bus, Colt. The same goes double for you Mack. People say Colt does more with less... why not refute these claims that a majority of your team (pretty much everyone except Colt) is better than "less?"

In the end, it really doesn't matter. We got past our annual-trip-to-Fiesta slump and Texas got past their annual-trip-to-Holiday slump. With that in mind, we're both better for having the QB's we do.

:P Of course, if Vince were quarterback, perhaps they'd be competing for the championship... either the conference or the national variety.

[Mjcpr]

So, the Heisman is the "best player with the worst teammates" award now?

As Bob says, that's fine, just let everyone know before the season that that's what the guidelines are. We lose a lot next year, maybe Samy will have a sucky enough supporting case to get some votes.

:rolleyes:

[TexasLidig8r]

:P Of course, if Vince were quarterback, perhaps they'd be competing for the championship... either the conference or the national variety.

If Colt had the secondary that Vince had in 2005, we'd be talking about Colt preparing for the national championship.

[TopDawg]

So, the Heisman is the "best player with the worst teammates" award now?

As Bob says, that's fine, just let everyone know before the season that that's what the guidelines are. We lose a lot next year, maybe Samy will have a sucky enough supporting case to get some votes.

:rolleyes:

When deciding who is the "Most Outstanding Player", I think it's perfectly reasonable to look at what each candidate is working with.

If Colt McCoy was surrounded by 10 seniors, all slated to be first round draft picks, and put up slightly better numbers than Sam Bradford who had done it against basically the same competition but with 10 true freshmen, wouldn't you take into account the people surrounding them? Which player would you think was more outstanding?

Now nobody is saying that's the case. It's an extreme example to hopefully shed some light on what's going on here. All that's being said is that it was easier for Bradford to put up his astronomical numbers this year than it was for McCoy to put up his near-astronomical numbers because Bradford has better players around him.

They're not saying it was EASY for Bradford to do it, just easier than it was for McCoy. They're not saying Colt's teammates suck, just that they're not as talented as Sam's.

So the question is, do you think OU's offensive players (Sam and Colt excluded) are more or less talented than Texas'? That's all there is to it. By answering this question you are not saying who you think should win the Heisman or who you think is the better quarterback or anything else. All you're doing is stating your opinion on an important part of the criteria.

Personally, I think OU's offensive players ARE more talented than Texas'. I happen to also think that Bradford is STILL the most outstanding player of the two of them. Thankfully, so did the Heisman voters.

[Sooner_Bob]

It's a shame you never got the opportunity to prove that on the field.

Oh wait...

So one game makes your season now?