A (very) long statistical analysis of OU and Florida

[My Opinion Matters]

I know the prevailing wisdom seems to be that Florida is going to beat us 65-63, but I don't see it playing out that way. I have come to a different conclusion. One team may light up the scoreboard, but I don't think both teams will. I think it's either a blowout, or a very close game with a lower final score than people expect. The reason I believe this is OU and Florida's recipes for success are extremely similar. Dynamic offenses that are put in favorable positions by oppurtunistic defenses. Because I love my team, but moreso because I'm a massive dork, I've done some exhaustive investigative web-surfing to support this supposition. This is a very long post, and very stat-heavy, so go ahead and stop reading...right about....now.

An oppurtunistic defense creates turnovers and momentum-changing events like quarterback sacks and tackles for loss. I'll start there.

Turnover Margin

No surprise, Oklahoma and Florida are 1st and 2nd nationally in turnover margin. Oklahoma is +1.77 per game, Florida +1.69. This seems like a push, however if you dive a little deeper the statistics reveal a little more. Florida leads the nation in passes intercepted with 24. However, Sam Bradford has thrown just one interception since the Texas game, or one interception in his last 257 attempts. Tim Tebow has thrown 3 interceptions for the year on 258 attempts. It seems unlikely either team will gain an advantage in this department. OU may have an advantage in fumbles. We've recovered 17 fumbles on the year, while Florida has lost 8 fumbles. Conversely, Florida has only recovered 9 fumbles on the year, while OU has only lost two fumbles on the season. That in itself is amazing, and is the lowest total of any team in the country. The next lowest team has 4. For reference, OU has lost two fumbles on 1,036 plays for the season for an average of one fumble lost every 538 plays. Florida has lost 8 fumbles on the season on 800 plays for an average of one fumble lost every 100 plays. I would give OU a very, very slight advantage in the turnover department. If we can recover just one fumble in the game it may be the difference.
Verdict-Slight advantage to OU


Sacks/Tackles For Loss

OU is 3rd nationally with 42 quarterback sacks. Florida is 33rd with 32 quarterback sacks. OU averages a sack against the opposition once every 11.83 pass attempts. Florida gets a sack once every 12.57 pass attempts. Guess who numbers 1 and 2 are in sacks? Texas and TCU. In case you're wondering, 7 of the 11 sacks OU has allowed on the season were to Texas and TCU. We've faced 3 other teams on the season with more sacks than Florida: Cincinnati, Texas Tech, and Nebraska. Those 3 teams combined for a total of 2 sacks against us. OU has allowed a total of 11 quarterback sacks on the year which is 4th best statistically. Florida has allowed 16, which is 13th best. This is where it gets interesting though-OU allows a sack every 43.27pass attempts, Florida allows a sack every 18.68 pass attempts. Florida has also faced more defenses that are statistically weaker in quarterback sacks. I'm not sure how significant this will turn out to be, but it appears to be an advantage for OU

There is a pretty significant discrepancy in our advantage in tackes for loss. OU ranks 9th nationally with nearly 8 per game, Florida is 85th with just over 5 per game. Both teams are nearly identical in TFL allowed. OU 12th, Fla 14th, both allowing just over 4 per game.
Verdict-Advantage to OU

3rd down offense/defense

I believe this is one of the most overlooked stats in football. Converting 3rd downs offensively allows a team to sustain drives and retain momentum. Conversely, a defense's ability to stop the opposing team from converting 3rd downs kills momentum and gives the other team the ball back. Not surprisingly , OU and Florida both excel in each category.

OU is 7th nationally with a 3rd down conversion rate of 51.6%. Florida is 13th with a conversion rate of 49.3%. What's interesting is we've already faced 5 teams with a higher conversion rate than Florida. Texas-2nd 57.1%, Texas Tech-4th 54.5%, Mizzou-5th 54.4%, TCU-8th 51.5%, and Kansas 11th 50%.

Again, both teams are nearly identical in 3rd down defense. Florida is 15th nationally, allowing opposing offenses to convert 31.8% of the time. OU is 21st, allowing a 33.3 conversion rate. Something to consider about this statistic that lends itself in OU's favor-OU's defense has faced 5 of the top 11 offenses in converting 3rd downs. This would appear to be a good sign for us defensively. There's a common theme that manifests through these statistics-TCU and Cincinatti. These are very solid teams. TCU is 5th, Cincinnatti is 6th in this category.
Verdict-Even


Defense

I'll attempt to dissect the defensive statistics a little now. FYI, I won't be breaking down the offensive numbers. Most of us know them anyway. Defense is supposedly an overwhelming advantage for Florida, but the statistics reveal some interesting things. I'll break this down in 3 categories-Rush defense, pass defense, and total defense.

Rush Defense

OU and Florida are nearly identical in rush defense. Florida ranks 16th nationally, OU ranks 18th. However, OU has a slight advantage in yards per carry allowed (OU 3.24-UF 3.33). Once again, we faced the top two defenses in these statistical categories this year: TCU and Texas. If you exclude quarterback sacks, we had identical yards per carry averages against Texas and TCU-2.43. What's encouraging is we're averaging 5.74 ypc since the Texas game. Florida averages 5.96 ypc on the year.
Verdict-Even

Pass Defense

This is where it supposedly gets ugly for us. A casual glance at the statistics would support this theory. OU ranks 99th at 253 ypg allowed. Fla ranks 19th at 174 ypg. However, once again, if you dive deeper there's more to the story...First off, a difference of only 79 ypg translates into a difference of 80 spots in the rankings. More interesting tidbits...OU has more pass attempts against than any other team in the nation (497). Florida averages 7 fewer pass attempts against its defense a game less than OU. OU's defense allows 12.01 ypc and 6.62 ypa. Florida allows 10.47 and 5.45. In pass efficiency defense Florida is 2nd nationally. One of the primary reasons for this is they lead the nation in passes intercepted. As discussed previously, you wouldn't think this would be a major factor against us. OU ranks 41st nationally in pass efficiency defense, and 1st in the Big 12. TCU ranks 4th nationally, and Cincinatti 28th. This area is obviously still an advantage for Fla, but its not as drastic as you would be led to believe.
Verdict-Advantage to Florida

Total Defense

The defensive rankings are really easy to be fooled by. It's been proclaimed over and over again by the media that the only team in the Big 12 that plays defense is Texas (50th in yards allowed nationally,). But Texas allows only 20 fewer ypg than we do. We're 2nd in the Big 12 in this category behind Texas, but only 65th nationally. The 3-game stretch of Texas, KU, and KSU earned us the reputation of having a terrible defense, and rightfully so. We allowed 438 yards to Texas, 491 to KU, and 550 to KSU :eek: . Now...can anyone tell me if anything might have happened in the Texas game that created this sudden inability to stop opposing offenses? A major upheaval in personnel, perhaps? Anyone?

Once the defense settled in and identified a suitable replacement for Reynolds we've allowed a respectable 350 ypg since the Kansas State game. For reference, that's against the 12th (Nebraska), 4th (Texas Tech), 7th (OSU), 6th (Mizzou), and 77th (damn you, TAMU!) ranked offenses nationally. We're not as bad defensively as everyone seems to think.

Florida allows 279 ypg, which is 9th nationally. They allow 4.4 yards per play on the season. OU allows 5.06 yards per play on the season. OU's defense has faced 922 plays this season, which is the 5th most of any team. Florida's defense has faced 826 plays on the season. Florida has played 4 teams this year that rank 97th or lower in total offense (!), not including a lower division team, The Citadel. The highest ranked offense they've played against this year is Georgia's, which ranks 21st. The second highest ranked offense they faced belonged to Ole Miss (37th), and we all know the result of that game. TCU is ranked 2nd in total defense, Cincinatti is 26th.

Just judging from the statistics I'm inclined to give the advantage to Florida, but not by a substantial margin.
Verdict-Slight advantage to Florida


Special Teams

This will be the last area I dissect. It's pretty bad...but maybe not as bad as you would think.

I keep hearing about how great Florida's special teams are, but the statistics I have don't back that up. I can't find statistics on blocked field goals/punts, which they may very well be proficient at. What I do have is a little surprising. We rank 107th nationally (not surprising) in kickoff return average defense with an average of 24.1 per return. Florida is not a whole let better though, they rank 90th with a 22.4 average. We're dead last out of 119 teams in kick-off touchdowns allowed (4). However, Florida has not ran a kickoff back for a touchdown this year. What's surprising is Florida's relative ineptness at returning kickoffs. You would think with all their (alleged) sub 4.3, Olympic team alternate sprinters they would be among the best in the country in this category. They rank 44th, with a 21.83 average. We rank 7th, with a 25.17 return average, which also surprised me.

They're better at punt returns, which may not benefit them significantly because we don't punt a lot. They're 8th nationally, with a 14.4 average and 2 td's. We're 70th nationally, with a 8.3 average and 1 touchdown. We're actually outstanding at punt return coverage, we've allowed a return on 9 punts for a total of 49 yards. Florida is equally impressive, allowing 63 yards on 13 returns for the season. Hopefully we won't have to punt the ball much, because we have the 5th worst average of all teams at 36.37 yards per punt. Fla averages 42.79 yards per punt. We have punted more than them, 51times for us, 42 for them.
Verdict-Advantage Florida, but not as bad as we thought

Final Analysis

Using all of this information, I'll go ahead and offer a prediction. I'll get to that in a minute. The statistics indicate a matchup between two very evenly matched teams. Some things I didn't include because it seemed like common sense, such as an OU advantage in total offense. What all the statistics reveal to me is if both teams play their A+ game, OU wins narrowly. However, both teams are so evenly matched and so similar in gameplan that even a -1 in turnover differential could make all the difference. This is also with the assumption that OU's A+ team shows up. That is the key variable in the entire equation. What OU team shows up? Is it the team that went on the road to Stillwater and outdueled OSU's best team in a quarter-century, or is it the team that was by embarassed in the Fiesta Bowl? That leads me to another troublesome observation...we've seen a team in the last year a lot like Florida...and that team was West Virginia. Except Florida has better athletes, and more of them. However, despite the media love affair with Tim Tebow I'm of the opinion he's less dangerous than Pat White. West Virginia probably had a superior running game to Florida, but Florida's offense is more diverse. Attempting to pick this game objectively I think it would be somewhat irresponsible to pick OU, given our recent history in bowl games. I won't make anyone happy with this, but if I'm picking with my head I'd be forced to pick Florida. But if this team plays like we all know its capable of, I do think we have the superior team and can therefore achieve victory.

[SPuL]

For all that work I think you deserve some recognition. Was a good read man. I agree on a lot of those points except the final result. ~_~

[soonerfanlv]

Nice work. Why not suppose it's the team that beat FSU, or won the Rose Bowl that shows up?

Because it is a different team.

Although the analysis of this season is spot on, I believe that trying to compare a team's bowl performances misses that crucial point.

[HateTheWhorns]

One key stat that explains much of the discrepancy between OUs and UFs defensive results is the number of opposing drives. OU opponents had 191 drives compared to UF opponents which had 151 drives. In an average game, the opponent will have about 12-13 drives a game. Basically, OUs defense played the equivalent of 3 extra games (compared to UFs defense); and did so against superior offenses.

[8timechamps]

Nice work.

Couple of thoughts:

1. I'm too lazy to look, but I'd be very interested in knowing how long (on average) it took Florida to score throughout the season. Without knowing, I'd be willing to say that Flordia controlled the clock much longer than we did. Of course, that skews the defensive numbers (the old "OU's opponents had more times to score" theory).

2. It's not surprising to me that our opponents threw the ball against us more. We jumped out to big leads in the majority of our games. Of course, that could make our rush defense numbers a little skewed too.

3. Everyone knows our special teams are our weakness. Again though, when you give a team twice (and sometimes three times) as many chances to return the ball than normal or average, the numbers will graduate back to the "average". In other words, you said it "our special teams numbers aren't as bad as we think".

Well done.

[Crucifax Autumn]

2. It's not surprising to me that our opponents threw the ball against us more. We jumped out to big leads in the majority of our games. Of course, that could make our rush defense numbers a little skewed too.


Yeah, but in doing so wouldn't it skew our pass defense numbers as well?

[My Opinion Matters]

Nice work.

Couple of thoughts:

1. I'm too lazy to look, but I'd be very interested in knowing how long (on average) it took Florida to score throughout the season. Without knowing, I'd be willing to say that Flordia controlled the clock much longer than we did. Of course, that skews the defensive numbers (the old "OU's opponents had more times to score" theory).

2. It's not surprising to me that our opponents threw the ball against us more. We jumped out to big leads in the majority of our games. Of course, that could make our rush defense numbers a little skewed too.

3. Everyone knows our special teams are our weakness. Again though, when you give a team twice (and sometimes three times) as many chances to return the ball than normal or average, the numbers will graduate back to the "average". In other words, you said it "our special teams numbers aren't as bad as we think".

Well done.

1. I didn't include time of possesion because, generally, I feel its a very overrated stat. However, I do think it was a factor in our one loss this season.

2. Your point about rush defense is correct as it relates to total rushing yards allowed. This is why I feel ypc allowed is a more reliable measurement of rush defense. OU has a lower ypc allowed average than Florida.

3. Opposing teams have received 100 kickoffs from us on the season. That is an unusually high number, and as you would guess, a direct result of the offense's ability to score points. We have kicked the ball-off 14 more times than the next closest team. If you're wondering, Florida has kicked the ball off 80 times this year. I didn't include this statistic, because it seems dishonest to manipulate the stats in hopes of finding a silver lining, but it could be said that our kick-off unit doesn't allow a touchdown 96% of the time. Take that whatever way you want.

[HateTheWhorns]

Nice work.

Couple of thoughts:

1. I'm too lazy to look, but I'd be very interested in knowing how long (on average) it took Florida to score throughout the season. Without knowing, I'd be willing to say that Flordia controlled the clock much longer than we did. Of course, that skews the defensive numbers (the old "OU's opponents had more times to score" theory).

2. It's not surprising to me that our opponents threw the ball against us more. We jumped out to big leads in the majority of our games. Of course, that could make our rush defense numbers a little skewed too.

3. Everyone knows our special teams are our weakness. Again though, when you give a team twice (and sometimes three times) as many chances to return the ball than normal or average, the numbers will graduate back to the "average". In other words, you said it "our special teams numbers aren't as bad as we think".

Well done.

The time of possession for OU and UF was less than a 5 second difference per game (about 29:35). OU's offense had about 191 drives for the season compared to about 151 for UF. Based on the math it appears the avg OU drive was just a hair over 2 min and UF's avg drive was just a hair under 3 min.

[OUster]

Because I love my team, but moreso because I'm a massive dork, I've done some exhaustive investigative web-surfing to support this supposition. This is a very long post, and very stat-heavy, so go ahead and stop reading...right about....now.

Dude, I'm glad you're a "dork". Great read...kudos!

[My Opinion Matters]

I wanted to add a couple of things I had initially left off of my final analysis for the sake of brevity. A lot of the reasoning I implemented in picking Florida relates back to a thread I posted earlier in the season. To put it simply, objectively I cannot pick OU because of the result of recent big games OU has been involved in, this year included. Now, I know the counter-argument to this...Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Missouri...yes, I do concede these are big games, but there is a difference...

Florida will be only the second team we've faced this season that can match us athletically. The only other team we faced this year with a comparable level of athletes we lost to. This is not exclusive to this year, this is a trend that has developed since the 2003 season. Texas Tech has a great team this year, and Missouri is pretty good too...but something you have to accept is that OU is on a higher plane of existence when it comes to depth and skill level compared to teams like these. Texas Tech has one guy, Crabtree, that could start on our team. Missouri has one guy, Maclin, that is better than his counterpart on our team. That means at 21 out of 22 starting positions OU has a talent advantage over teams like Texas Tech and Missouri. I'm in no way implying that these teams are not dangerous, just ask Texas, but they just don't have the athletes of OU, Texas, and Florida. West Virginia was much closer in talent to Texas Tech and Missouri than they are to Texas or Florida. Florida is at least as good or better than us athletically.

We certainly are good enough to beat Florida, I think we're better than Florida. I think if OU and Fla both play exceptional games, OU wins. If OU and Fla both play average games, OU wins. My concern is that we get outplayed, someone makes a bone-headed turnover or special teams play, etc. This has happened to us time and time again, not just in bowl games, but also in games with an evenly matched opponent. I think toughness is something that has been lacking in every prior installment of a Stoops team since the 2000 MNC team. It's not all doom and gloom though, this appears to be the toughest team we've had since that MNC squad. I think the signature win of the season is the OSU win, not the Texas Tech win. In that game this team proved it was good enough to overcome adversity and outduel a very talented and very hungry team in their own house. That's the team I hope shows up on January 8th.

[tbl]

Good read and insight, but the special teams is vastly in their favor. The main reason for that is our inability to kick the ball into the end zone. I'm not even counting the 4TD's we had scored on us (which is bad enough). I'd be interested to know the average opponents starting field position after receiving one of our awful kickoffs vs. Florida's. That'd be an interesting stat...

[TMcGee86]

Is it more impressive that OU's turnover margin is high considering the how prolific the offenses of the Big12 are, or is it simply a matter of the QB's throwing it more and that leading to more opportunites for ints?

Conversely, is it not really all that impressive that UF's turnover margin is high considering how bad the offenses of the SEC are, or is it actually more impressive considering the fact that most of those teams would seem to be ball control offenses and not allow for as many int opportunites?

[TMcGee86]

We've faced 3 other teams on the season with more sacks than Florida: Cincinnati, Texas Tech, and Nebraska. Those 3 teams combined for a total of 2 sacks against us.

And both those came on back to back plays in the third quarter against Tech, with OU leading 52-14.

Now that's impressive.

[SimpleBrent]

The fact of the matter is this, the OU d is completely incompetent when it comes to facing a mobile QB. They're getting ready to face a great one in the championship game that, unlike OSU, has a defense to back him up. Florida by 17.

[My Opinion Matters]

Is it more impressive that OU's turnover margin is high considering the how prolific the offenses of the Big12 are, or is it simply a matter of the QB's throwing it more and that leading to more opportunites for ints?

Conversely, is it not really all that impressive that UF's turnover margin is high considering how bad the offenses of the SEC are, or is it actually more impressive considering the fact that most of those teams would seem to be ball control offenses and not allow for as many int opportunites?

Florida actually has one more takeaway than we do on the season, but I'm of the opinion we achieved our total in a slightly more impressive way. Most of Florida's takeaways come from interceptions. This is in a league with terrible quarterback play this season. More fumbles have accounted for OU's takeaway total, I think this is more impressive when you consider the Big 12 is a very pass-happy league. Big 12 quarterbacks not named Chase Daniel haven't thrown a lot of interceptions this year.

I think an interesting thing to watch in this game will be if Florida backs and receivers are able to hold on to the ball. Most of them are smallish, track-type guys...and they'll be facing a defense that has a knack for forcing fumbles. Keenan Clayton has forced 6 on the year by himself.

[kevpks]

I agree with everyone who states that comparing this year's team to last year is probably the least significant point of comparison. Just look at our road performances this year. Could last year's team have gone to Stillwater and won like we did? Did last year's team drop 60 on anybody with a pulse? I think our last five games are more indicative of future perfomances than anything we saw last year.

[TXHornsFan]

Quite an analysis. Even as a Horn fan I am impressed.

It's hard to get a true read by comparing stats because of the difference in the conferences. The Gators' defense has not seen the likes of the Big 12 passing offenses - OU, UT, TxTech, OkState. On the other hand, are the SEC defenses as good as advertised or is it just hype? (Don't pay much attention to the TCU-Cincinnati stats, which were mostly obtained against inferior competition.)

There is no doubt the Sooners will put up points. Even in their loss they had 35, and that was with Texas playing a very good defensive game. The real question is whether Florida can match Texas' recipe for a win. The statistical areas where you listed Texas as among the tops in the nation were huge factors in that game - run defense, sacks, and 3rd down offense.

OU could not get any ground game going. Can Florida shut down the run? If so, that might be a sign of trouble. If not, good times in Norman.

Bradford was under intense pressure most of the Texas game. It wasn't just the sacks, but the rushed throws (including one pick) and the scrambles for little or no gains. Most of that pressure came from Orakpo and Kindle - speed on the outside. Other teams have had gotten no pressure at all, as OU's massive o-line was able to handle the inside rush with ease. What I would look at here is where Florida's D-line strength is. I don't know their personnel, but if their rush usually comes up the middle OU should handle it well. If they have exceptional and speedy players on the edges, they might have more success in creating pressure. Bradford is too good if he has the time as he did against TxTech, OkState, and Mizzou. For Florida to have any chance, they have to find some way to get into the backfield.

The last big factor for Texas was their 3rd down offense. While OU had quick strike scores, Texas had several long drives that ate up the clock and kept OU's offense off the field. That was true even early in the game when they were kicking field goals rather the getting TD's. This is where Tebow might make the biggest impact, being able to keep plays alive and pick up first downs. Against TxTech and Mizzou, OU was able to use all sorts of blitzes to pressure Harrell and Daniel. OkState fared a lot better, maybe because they had a more threatening running game. A key will be whether OU is able to put pressure on Tebow, and how he handles it.

OU has only been tested twice this year - by Texas and OkState. Texas had a better defensive game than OkState and that made the difference. Both scored over 40. Expect Florida to do the same. OU will have to get 45 or more to win. I think they will.

[Circle City Gator]

First, interesting analysis, and thanks for letting me play in your pool. I will approach it with respect. Okay, on to the meat of the matter.

Turnover margin- no advantage to either team. They are one and two in the country, with a differential of just one. That's a push. Any difference in numbers comes down to more plays in the Big 12 with more passing and more clock stoppage.

Sacks, tackles for losses- advantage OU. Florida's defensive line has been incredibly effective against the run (see below), but has not been sack-happy.

Third down offense/defense- If you nod toward OU because they faced better offenses on defense, you have to give an equal nod toward UF because we faced better defenses on offense. Therefore, that's a push.

Rush defense- I think Florida has the advantage here. As noted above, you have more sacks and those negative numbers skew the rushing totals. Also, look at who Florida stopped. We shut down some of the best running backs in the country, including Arian Foster (Tennessee), 14 carries for 37 yards, Charles Scott (LSU) 12 for 35, and Knowshon Moreno (Georgia) 17 for 65. Only Alabama has been able to run on Florida, and that was really only for one quarter.

Pass Defense- If OU always plays the pass as they did against Oklahoma State, well, Florida has a big advantage. Why? Two reasons. First, OU was in a soft zone the entire game, and obviously had no confidence in their ability to cover man to man. Second, if you can't cover Florida's guys man to man, you have to put safeties at centerfield, limiting you to 7 in the box. With Tebow as both running back and quarterback, Florida will have you outnumbered at the line of scrimmage. I said about the 'Bama game that the key was corners, and 'Bama was able to cover and still play safeties against the run. Can Oklahoma? With Florida on D, Janoris Jenkins is a shut-down corner. Julius Jones had all his success in the SEC championship game against the other corner, Joe Haden. Florida's safeties are very big hitters and ball hawkers, as evidenced by the interceptions. Corners are key in this one and Oklahoma, as far as I have seen, has not shown great cornerback play. You have outscored opponents, rather than shut them down.

Special teams. A push on kickoffs. UF advantage both ways punting. Brandon James in incredibly dangerous returning punts. What makes him more dangerous, though, is that teams have to play the block- we blocked at least five punts this year using speed guys on the rush. Our punter is the best at Florida since Ray Criswell, averaging over 42 yards per punt and that only because he has dropped a ton of punts inside the 5 to 10 yard line. His long is 67, and that is not an aberration or a big roll. In the field goal/extra point kicking game, we have 7 blocks for the year. In other words, we average more than a blocked punt or kick per game. Just one of those is a game-changer, and just the threat changes the way other teams play. They rush the punt and punt short, rush the kick and miss it, etc.


Ultimately, this game, IMHO, will come down to a few things. First, the usual- line play. That's a dead horse beaten before every game. Next, cornerbacks, as noted above. Finally, speed. You simply can not comprehend the speed of Demps (the fastest high schooler ever, 10.01 at the Olympic trials), Rainey (anchor man for Florida's 4x100- fourth at the NCAAs last year), and Harvin (just not human). If your safeties are in zone your linebackers need lateral speed to contain those guys on the outside. If you go nickel and lose a linebacker, your linemen have to fill holes faster than they ever have before, or a 5'8" rocket will be in the backfield before you know it. Add the threat of Tebow running, and he really can run, and the one-man play action becomes deadly. If you think Tebow is just a fullback who can't throw, watch highlights of the 'Bama game. He made PERFECT throws against great coverage, putting the ball where only his guy could catch it every time. When OU has the ball, corner play and a good speed rush from the defensive ends are key, because Bradford can pick anybody apart with time.

I think it's going to be a great game. It won't be the shoot-out people expect, because Florida's defense is better than anything you've seen so far, because Oklahoma's is better than they get credit for, and because championship games tend to be more conservative, with coaches being a bit more cautious against teams they don't know.

It should be fun, and thanks again for letting me play in your pool.

[My Opinion Matters]

First, interesting analysis, and thanks for letting me play in your pool. I will approach it with respect. Okay, on to the meat of the matter.

Turnover margin- no advantage to either team. They are one and two in the country, with a differential of just one. That's a push. Any difference in numbers comes down to more plays in the Big 12 with more passing and more clock stoppage.

Sacks, tackles for losses- advantage OU. Florida's defensive line has been incredibly effective against the run (see below), but has not been sack-happy.

Third down offense/defense- If you nod toward OU because they faced better offenses on defense, you have to give an equal nod toward UF because we faced better defenses on offense. Therefore, that's a push.

Rush defense- I think Florida has the advantage here. As noted above, you have more sacks and those negative numbers skew the rushing totals. Also, look at who Florida stopped. We shut down some of the best running backs in the country, including Arian Foster (Tennessee), 14 carries for 37 yards, Charles Scott (LSU) 12 for 35, and Knowshon Moreno (Georgia) 17 for 65. Only Alabama has been able to run on Florida, and that was really only for one quarter.

Pass Defense- If OU always plays the pass as they did against Oklahoma State, well, Florida has a big advantage. Why? Two reasons. First, OU was in a soft zone the entire game, and obviously had no confidence in their ability to cover man to man. Second, if you can't cover Florida's guys man to man, you have to put safeties at centerfield, limiting you to 7 in the box. With Tebow as both running back and quarterback, Florida will have you outnumbered at the line of scrimmage. I said about the 'Bama game that the key was corners, and 'Bama was able to cover and still play safeties against the run. Can Oklahoma? With Florida on D, Janoris Jenkins is a shut-down corner. Julius Jones had all his success in the SEC championship game against the other corner, Joe Haden. Florida's safeties are very big hitters and ball hawkers, as evidenced by the interceptions. Corners are key in this one and Oklahoma, as far as I have seen, has not shown great cornerback play. You have outscored opponents, rather than shut them down.

Special teams. A push on kickoffs. UF advantage both ways punting. Brandon James in incredibly dangerous returning punts. What makes him more dangerous, though, is that teams have to play the block- we blocked at least five punts this year using speed guys on the rush. Our punter is the best at Florida since Ray Criswell, averaging over 42 yards per punt and that only because he has dropped a ton of punts inside the 5 to 10 yard line. His long is 67, and that is not an aberration or a big roll. In the field goal/extra point kicking game, we have 7 blocks for the year. In other words, we average more than a blocked punt or kick per game. Just one of those is a game-changer, and just the threat changes the way other teams play. They rush the punt and punt short, rush the kick and miss it, etc.


Ultimately, this game, IMHO, will come down to a few things. First, the usual- line play. That's a dead horse beaten before every game. Next, cornerbacks, as noted above. Finally, speed. You simply can not comprehend the speed of Demps (the fastest high schooler ever, 10.01 at the Olympic trials), Rainey (anchor man for Florida's 4x100- fourth at the NCAAs last year), and Harvin (just not human). If your safeties are in zone your linebackers need lateral speed to contain those guys on the outside. If you go nickel and lose a linebacker, your linemen have to fill holes faster than they ever have before, or a 5'8" rocket will be in the backfield before you know it. Add the threat of Tebow running, and he really can run, and the one-man play action becomes deadly. If you think Tebow is just a fullback who can't throw, watch highlights of the 'Bama game. He made PERFECT throws against great coverage, putting the ball where only his guy could catch it every time. When OU has the ball, corner play and a good speed rush from the defensive ends are key, because Bradford can pick anybody apart with time.

I think it's going to be a great game. It won't be the shoot-out people expect, because Florida's defense is better than anything you've seen so far, because Oklahoma's is better than they get credit for, and because championship games tend to be more conservative, with coaches being a bit more cautious against teams they don't know.

It should be fun, and thanks again for letting me play in your pool.

I'm not trying to be condescending, but its obvious from your post you haven't been watching OU football for very long. I'll address this later.

[Circle City Gator]

I don't take it as condescending, and look forward to the response. I have not been watching a lot of Oklahoma ball lately. Most of my impressions come from the OSU game and I readily admit I have a lot more to learn about them.

[the_ouskull]

I don't take it as condescending, and look forward to the response. I have not been watching a lot of Oklahoma ball lately. Most of my impressions come from the OSU game and I readily admit I have a lot more to learn about them.

I like this kid. If we beat them, he can stay.

the_ouskull

[Crucifax Autumn]

So where's the response? This could get good!

[ouwasp]

very good thread in all respects...reminds me of something Nebraska fans might have done back in the day...

[Circle City Gator]

I like this kid. If we beat them, he can stay.

the_ouskull

But if we win can I stay? :D

Seriously, if we lose, I will be back to say "congratulations." If we win, I will be back to say "good game."

[NormanPride]

Our corners are actually a strength in our D. Both Jackson (physical, run stopping type) and Franks (pure cover and int creater) are great corners in a league that is very hard to defend. They shut down the best WR in the nation, and had a very good day against OSU's Bryant, who had most of his success against LBs.

The LB's are where our weakness is in pass coverage. They struggle with big athletic TEs that can stretch the field, but did well against OSU's Pettigrew for some reason... We primarily run zone coverage, but that allows us to sneak people into the box from wherever we can. There's no doubt that we have a bit of a weakness up the middle in run support, but we also have very fast and agile DTs, so filling gaps QUICKLY is not a problem. Holding our ground against a grinding attack is. We do have Granger, who is a great run stopping DT, but he's injured and hasn't been at 100% since three OL mugged him in our game against Washington.

We run a safety at SLB, and Travis Lewis is one of the fastest people on our D, so side to side speed will not be a problem. It should be a GREAT game, and I look forward to lots of clean smack from the gator fans that are showing up around here. :D

[My Opinion Matters]

Sorry for the delay in responding, I normally only post from work. NormanPride actually covered most of the things I was going to say, thanks NP :). I'll add a couple of things though...

The "soft zone" as you described it, Gator Dude, is not ran to disguise any coverage weaknesses in our cornerbacks. That's just the scheme Bob Stoops has always run. I'm not always crazy about it, but Bob stopped asking me for my input years ago. I think Dominique Franks is the best cover corner we've had here under Stoops. He and Brian Jackson comprise, IMO, the best cornerback tandem we've had here in a long, long time.

Two players to watch on our defense are SS Nic Harris and WLB Travis Lewis. They are wildly inconsistent. When they play well, the defense can be dominant and suffocating, when they don't play well the defense can struggle. In their defense, I think their struggles can be attributed to the loss of Reynolds. They've had to make more adjustments more than any other player due to the revolving-door situation at MLB.

Lateral speed has always been a calling card of a Stoops defense. If you think the key to success against this defense is running sideline-to-sideline, you're going to be in for a long night. The best way to attack this defense is come right at it. This defense is very strong around the edges, but weak in the middle. In this respect, you should expect Tebow to have some success running the ball. That's another factor, our linebackers and safeties are a bit under-sized, so don't be surprised to see them having trouble bringing Tebow down.

[abOUtwinning]

This is a great thread... great analysis... the thing that scares me is the # of penalties we have been racking up in the past few games.. We have to cut that s*** out... We cant go into Florida and start shooting ourselves with penalties..

[tbl]

The fact of the matter is this, the OU d is completely incompetent when it comes to facing a mobile QB. They're getting ready to face a great one in the championship game that, unlike OSU, has a defense to back him up. Florida by 17.

While I do not totally agree with this, there is something to be said about our ineptitude in facing a mobile QB. It really does rattle Venables schemes for whatever reason. I'm hoping these 4 weeks will be nothing but drills, drills, drills on dealing with Tebow.

[My Opinion Matters]

While I do not totally agree with this, there is something to be said about our ineptitude in facing a mobile QB. It really does rattle Venables schemes for whatever reason. I'm hoping these 4 weeks will be nothing but drills, drills, drills on dealing with Tebow.

Signed,

Seneca Wallace
Vince Young
Robert Griffin
Bobby Reid
Zac Robinson
Dennis Dixon
Omar Jacobs
Jake Locker

:rolleyes:

[My Opinion Matters]

This reputation that we can't handle a mobile qb can be traced back to one guy, Brad Smith. We've done pretty well against mobile qb's not named Brad Smith, and last I checked his teams never beat ours.

[ClintonSooner]

tebow's "mobility" is almost always a straight run up the middle... hes not a flashy juke n jive type, but he is a punisher. Our problems have been with containing qbs, this doesnt appear as big as a threat with tebow

[Gatorzz]

We can't look at how many points per game each team scores or gives up and look across the board and say Oklahoma scores 50 a game and Florida scores 40 a game. And we cant look at the defenses and compare and say Florida gives up 13 per game and Oklahoma gives up 20+. But we can look at the ratios of how these teams effect what their opponents usually do vs. the top competition they have faced.

Florida's Top 4 conference foes:
GA averages 30+ PPG. (10 vs. FL)
Ole Miss 31 PPG (31 vs. FL)
LSU 30+ PPG (21 vs. FL)
Bama 30+ PPG (20 vs. FL)

Top 2 out of conference foes:
Miami 27PPG (3 vs. FL)
FSU 32PPG (15 vs. FL)

FL holds opponents to roughly 45% less of an output than what the team usually scores. That puts FL on pace to hold Oklahoma to 30 points if this holds true. Very similar to their point output vs. Texas.

Best team FL faced was Bama. Held Bama to 33% less than what they usually score. Puts Oklahoma on pace for 35 points if this holds true.


OKLAHOMA

Top 4 conference foes:
Texas 43 PPG (45 vs Oklahoma)
Tech 44 PPG (21 vs. Oklahoma)
OK ST 41 PPG (41 vs. Oklahoma)
Mizzou 43PPG (21 vs. Oklahoma)

Top 2 out of conference foes:
TCU 35 PPG (10 vs. Oklahoma)
Cincy 27 PPG (26 vs. Oklahoma)

Oklahoma holds opponents to roughly 30% less than what the opponent usually scores. Puts Florida on pace for 32 points.

Best team Oklahoma faced was Texas. Texas scored more points vs. Oklahoma than what they usually average (102% more). Puts Florida on pace for 46 points.



DEFENSES:
FLORIDA:
Top 4 conf defenses Florida faced:
Bama gives up 13 PPG (Gave up 31 vs. FL)
UT gives up 16 PPG (Gave up 30 vs. FL)
Miss gives up 17 PPG (gave up 30 vs. FL)
USC gives up 20 PPG (Gave up 56 vs. FL)

Out of conference
FSU gives up 21 PPG (Gave up 45 vs. FL)
Miami gives up 24 PPG (Gave up 26 vs. FL)

Florida scores 96% more than what the opponents usually give up. Puts Florida on pace to score 47 points.

Best defense Florida faced was Bama. They usually give up 13, Florida scored 31. Florida scored 138% more vs. the best defense they faced. Puts them on pace to score 59 vs. Oklahoma.


OKLAHOMA:
Top 4 conf defenses faced:
Texas gives up 19PPG (Gave up 35 vs. Oklahoma)
OK ST gives up 27 PPG (Gave up 61 vs. Oklahoma)
Nebraska gives up 29 PPG (Gave up 62 vs. Oklahoma)
Texas Tech gives up 26 PPG (Gave up 65 to Oklahoma)

Out of conference:
TCU gives up 11PPG (Gave up 35 to Oklahoma)
Cincy gives up 20 PPG (Gave up 52 to Oklahoma)

Oklahoma scores 134% more than what opponents usually give up. Puts them on pace to score 31 points vs. Florida.

Best defense Oklahoma faced was TCU (OUT OF CONFERENCE DEFENSE!!!). Oklahoma scored 35 vs. TCU. 218% more than what they usually give up. Puts them on pace to score 41 vs. Florida. Some may argue Texas was the best defense they faced, and that makes their output even worse.


Taking all of the projected points and averaging them out gives us the following:

Florida O cumulative avg. vs. top teams = 47
Florida O avg vs. best team = 59
Florida D cumulative avg. vs. top teams = 30
Florida D avg vs. best team = 35

Oklahoma O cumulative avg. vs. top teams = 31
Oklahoma O avg vs. best team = 41
Oklahoma D cumulative avg. vs. top teams = 32
Oklahoma D avg vs. best team = 46

Florida 46
Oklahoma 34

Eerily similar score to the Texas game using this logic.

[Gatorzz]

Final Thoughts:

Both teams are going to move the football and score points. Both offenses are legit.

What this game is going to come down to is one of these two teams taking a stand and separating from the other. You do this with defense, special teams and turnovers. Turnovers is a push, but UFs defense and special teams gives them the edge in this game.

We saw Texas take a kickoff back off Oklahoma, which was a key to the game. Florida's special teams units in kickoff return, punt coverage, punt block, and punt return is the best in the country. Florida went something like 11 games straight where the opponent didnt even attempt to return the punt, meaning the coverage was outstanding resulting in a fair catch or the ball was kicked out of bounds.

While the SEC offenses have been subpar this year due to breaking in new QBs, there is still no denying that even when Florida went to out of conference play they held opponents to season lows, or near season lows. Whether the offenses in the SEC are good or bad, Florida still held them to much lower outputs than anyone else was able to.

With defense and special teams in favor of Florida, Oklahoma will need some turnovers in this game. Problem is, Florida does not turn it over. They have also have plenty of players on the roster with big game experience, many left over from the 2006 National Title team.

You can beat Florida and slow this spread attack with outstanding linebacker play. Guys who can cover the drag routes over the middle, cover the speedy backs out of the backfield, and swarm to the football on the perimeter, or stay honest and take on a 240 pound Tebow with a full head of steam up the gut. The problem here is the Oklahoma LB corps is probably the weak spot of their team. With Harvin, Thompson, and Murphy split wide, you need have LBs with speed to cover Rainey and Demps out of the backfield and make great open field tackles. However, never more prevalent than the Texas game, Oklahoma has major issues with LBs, and leaves the middle of the field open for drag routes from Harvin, Tebow scrambling, etc.

Florida, despite their speed at the playmaking positions, is a run first smashmouth offense with a physical offensive line. They will look to control time of position, drive down the field, and keep the Sooner offense on the sideline, and defense on the field.

Florida's sack totals are not that of Texas' etc, because Florida took 21+ point leads early in the game, have gotten out to very fast starts, have dropped many players into safe coverage - preventing the big play.

However, Charlie Strong is known for his blitzing, and Florida's two defensive ends have tremendous speed - so much that Carlos Dunlap their DE with 9 sacks, returned kickoffs in high school and took 2 back for TDs.

Gators have faced 2 offensive lines with similar talent on the O-line to Oklahoma - Bama and Ole Miss. Bama's Andre Smith is a top 5 NFL pick, and Ole Miss Mike Oher is a top 10 NFL pick. Both are projected higher picks than Duke. Bamas C Antoine Caldwell was all SEC 1st team and is a projected top 2 round NFL pick. Florida has played and handled good O-lines and this should not be anything new for them. If are making a list of top 5 O-lines in the country, Oklahoma, Florida, Bama and Oles Miss are all deep into the discussion.

Again, this game should come down to special teams and defense with turnovers being a push. Both teams will move the ball, but who makes the big special teams plays and makes the big stops on D will win the game.

Gators 45
Oklahoma 35

[My Opinion Matters]

Yeah, you should definitely read the original post again.

[My Opinion Matters]

What this game is going to come down to is one of these two teams taking a stand and separating from the other.You do this with defense, special teams and turnovers.

This sounds really familiar. Maybe because that's exactly what I've already said.


UFs defense and special teams gives them the edge in this game.

False.


Florida's special teams units in kickoff return, punt coverage, punt block, and punt return is the best in the country.

Also false.


With defense and special teams in favor of Florida

Speculation.


Problem is, Florida does not turn it over.

False.


Florida's sack totals are not that of Texas' etc, because Florida took 21+ point leads early in the game, have gotten out to very fast starts, have dropped many players into safe coverage

Have you followed OU football at all this year? Something about record-setting offense and getting out to huge leads ring a bell?


Gators have faced 2 offensive lines with similar talent on the O-line to Oklahoma - Bama and Ole Miss

You're 1-1 in these games. So what was your point again?

[Circle City Gator]

[I tried to post this as a new thread, but did not have the ability to do so- no problem, I'm a guest here]

How fast is Oklahoma? I'm looking at your media guide (http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1848720/Oklahoma-Sooners-Players-2008-Media-Guide), and I find:

Austin Box (LB) 4.6 40

Brett Bowers (DB) 4.5 40

Ryan Broyles (WR) no time listed, but benches 310 (Harvin benches more than 400 - just thought you'd want to know)

Brandon Caleb (WR) Rivals (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=37875&Sport=1) lists him at 4.62. He was a track athlete in Virginia, winning the High School triple jump with a distance of 46'5" (Harvin did better the next year in Virginia- 48'2.5"), 21'9" in the long jump (Harvin did better the next year in Virginia- 23'5.5") The guy is obviously an athlete, but 4.6?

Quinton Carter (WR) 4.45 40, according to a Sooner website (http://www.soonersports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/carter_quinton00.html).

Quiton Chaney (WR) 4.5 according to Rivals (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=36658).

Keenan Clayton (LB) 4.52 according to the media guide.

Dominique Franks (DB) 4.48 according to the media guide.

Nic Harris (DB) 4.5 according to the media guide.

Lendy Holmes (DB) 4.42 according to Scout (http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=8&c=1&nid=571131).

Juaquin Iglesias (WR) 4.5, or so say NFL scouts (http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/wr/Juaquin-Iglesias.php).

Brian Jackson (DB) 4.5 (media guide)

Desmond Jackson (DB) 4.5 (media guide) [ you guys have a heck of a lot of DBs]

DeMarco Murray (RB) 4.42 a "team best" according to the media guide. Really? Team best?

Before I introduce you to Florida speed, let me start by acknowledging that school-times 40 speeds are almost always suspect. That said, Florida's are no more suspect than Oklahomas, and given that Rainey anchored UF track's NCAA outdoor 4th place 4x100, they might just be right. Okay, Florida speed. I'm going to show you a picture, but the fastest guy isn't even on the board, since he's a true freshman. Jeff Demps was the fastest high schooler in history, with 10.01 100 meters at the Olympic trials. Okay, here goes:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w303/IllIllII3/GatorSports/TheWall.jpg

No, I won't make you squint:

Chris Rainey (RB) 4.24

Louis Muprhy (WR) 4.25

Percy Harvin (Ath) 4.26

Deonte Thompson (WR) 4.28

Wondy Pierre-Louis (DB) 4.31

Joe Haden (4.33)

Justin Williams (DB) 4.35

Dorian Munroe (DB) 4.37

Kestahn Moore (RB) 4.37 (he's our FULLBACK)

Those times don't include Brandon James or Emmanuel Moody, either.

I wonder if you realize just how absurdly fast Florida is? I have been watching college football since Steve Spurrier won a Heisman Trophy, and this is, BY FAR, the fastest team I have ever seen. Is Oklahoma fast enough to keep up? If not, you are going to have to play very deep and soft to keep these guys in front of you. That means Tebow can pick apart the zone, because there will be plenty of room in the seams, and that there will be plenty of room to run, as safeties play on their heels.

[BoulderSooner79]

Heck, we've proved we can't even stop slow teams. We're doomed.

[SoonerBoognish]

Next I'm gonna hear they can throw a football over them mountains... yep, doomed.

[catsigater]

Resistance is Futile

Capitulation is Your Only Option

[HungaryGator]

Let me add a few thoughts from the reptilian perspective. :)

Our Special Teams have generally been very good. We've blocked a few punts and our return guy Brandon James although tiny is deadly in the open field. The one thing we have struggled with a big is our KO coverage. Our kicker has shown a disturbing tendency to kick the ball out of bounds giving the other team the ball at the 40 yard line. When he kicks it in bounds, our coverage has been so-so.

On Defense, our Secondary and Linebackers are both good and deep. Our DL is OK but not as good as the other two units primarily due to the fact that we are so young (we only have one Junior on the DL and all the rest-including the backups-are Freshmen and Sophomores). The two corners have been very good and one safety (Ahmad Black) has been excellent. The other safety (Major Wright) is a big hitter but his coverage skills still need some work. Depth at corner is good as both of the backups are solid players also. We will probably need that in this game.

On Offense we were not clicking early in the season. A big part of that was due to the fact that one of our Offensive Guards (Jim Tartt) was injured. After trying out a player or two we settled on Sophomore Tackle Carl Johnson. At 6'6' 330 pounds he has been a force at guard and really helped solidify the line. Another factor is that for whatever reason we seemed to not want to open the playbook in the first part of the season and just tried to plow it between the tackles over and over and over again. After the Ole Miss debacle we finally opened the playbook and started running outside more, passing on early downs more, trusting in our Freshman Tailbacks Chris Rainey and Jeffrey Demps and Voila! Suddenly the Offense opened up.

I'm hopeful we can sustain drives, hog the ball and force a few 3 and outs or a few mistakes out of Bradford and co.....or at least make y'all settle for field goals. Since our OC was hired away as head coach by Mississippi State (Moo U) there is no telling if this will cause a disruption in the Offense. I think we'll try to play zone as much as possible and try to limit the YAC which is where you've gotten most of your yards in the passing game. Obviously we will need to generate a pass rush which, given the fact that y'all have an outstanding OL and our DL is only OK, it appears likely we will have to sometimes zone blitz to get.....and in my bid for the "captain obvious" award, turnovers will be huge.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Are you a hungry gator or a gator from Hungary? And if it really is the second, then how did you get to be a gator fan?

Just curious...

But seriosly, you DO seem to have a well thought out post, which is somewhat impressive among "visitors" to this board.

[HungaryGator]

Born and raised in Florida and attended UF. Lived in Budapest, Hungary twice.

If you're looking for a good natured Gator board, I suggest Mudlizard's Virtual Swamp. I know a few of us from that board have been regulars on y'alls famous Farkatorium.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Cool. I'm actually very relieved to see something like that spelled correctly as opposed to being an accident by some spelling impaired retard.

Makes for a nice pun.

[Flsunman]

This sounds really familiar. Maybe because that's exactly what I've already said.



False.



Also false.



Speculation.



False.



Have you followed OU football at all this year? Something about record-setting offense and getting out to huge leads ring a bell?



You're 1-1 in these games. So what was your point again?



Please name me a better overall special teams over UF?? I'm waiting, I would love to hear it! UF has 7, that's right 7 total kick/punt blocks. UF's punter is the best in the SEC and the kicker has missed one field goal all year. Ever heard of Brandon James? He's a HELL of a lot better than Shipley, Perish Cox that K-state guy and whoever has returned a kick for TD against OU.

Look, I'm not trying to start anything, but to say UF's special teams won't be a factor is plain dumb... Good luck either way.

[Flsunman]

Signed,

Seneca Wallace
Vince Young
Robert Griffin
Bobby Reid
Zac Robinson
Dennis Dixon
Omar Jacobs
Jake Locker

:rolleyes:

Dude, you may want to think a little before you post. Griffin had over 100 yards rushing and Robisnon had 90. Bobby Reid is NOT a runner and why did you think this? B/c he's black?? Come on! And Vince Young rolled OU as well... don't see the point of the list here...

[Flsunman]

Next I'm gonna hear they can throw a football over them mountains... yep, doomed.



Florida's speed is nothing to sneeze at or make a joke out of. It's very very real and it's up to OU to contain it. I still remember Noel Devine running wild on OU last year... UF has 3 noel devine's...

[Curly Bill]

Damn it Sooner fans we're in trouble! Apparently the entire Olympic track team has enrolled at Florida and is on the football team.

[SCOUT]

We should call Bob and make sure the team starts running and stuff in practice.

[Flsunman]

Damn it Sooner fans we're in trouble! Apparently the entire Olympic track team has enrolled at Florida and is on the football team.



The funny thing is, UF's offense is a track team. Look up actual stats/facts before you look more like a moron...

Jeff Demps ran a 10.01 in the 100 meters!!! That's just flat out sick.

Chris Rainey runs a legit 4.28 40.

Murphy is also a sub 4.3 guy.

Percy runs about a 4.32...

This is the fastest Gator team EVER and UF fans aren't making this up, it's very real!

[Curly Bill]

Oh my God! It's very real...oh my God!

[I-Bleed-Orange]

Hey, very good read and kudos for looking up all those facts and stating them in 1 nice neat thread. Im glad u did b/c i had yet to find a good argument for why OU should beat Florida and i wanted to have a better feeling for when u guys go 2 play that game. Ill b rooting for yall (even tho im obviously a Horns fan) b/c i think it is important for the Big XII to finish out as the strongest conference this year. Anyways. Thnx again for the stats and ur argument... u have eased some of my... uneasiness:D

[Curly Bill]

We should call Bob and make sure the team starts running and stuff in practice.

Yep, because instead of playing football it sounds like we're just gonna have relay races and stuff.

[Flsunman]

Oh my God! It's very real...oh my God!

You'll see on Jan 8th... I'll be here to bump this thread after the game. put 10 dimes on Uf -3 and pay your kid's college tuition, my gift to the forum...

[Curly Bill]

You'll see on Jan 8th... I'll be here to bump this thread after the game. put 10 dimes on Uf -3 and pay your kid's college tuition, my gift to the forum...

Maybe you will be here. You could be a troll.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Originally Posted by SCOUT
We should call Bob and make sure the team starts running and stuff in practice.

Yep, because instead of playing football it sounds like we're just gonna have relay races and stuff.

Duck-Duck-Goose perhaps?

Maybe we'd fair better at musical chairs!

[Crucifax Autumn]

Originally Posted by Flsunman
You'll see on Jan 8th... I'll be here to bump this thread after the game. put 10 dimes on Uf -3 and pay your kid's college tuition, my gift to the forum...

Maybe you will be here. You could be a troll.

But he's the rare sun-troll! Brave enough to come out from under the darkness of his bridge and....



Sun-Tan! Lock up your daughters!

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

i don't know about you guys but i'm having a flashback to 2000 when the florida state guys were on here talking about the crazy speed they had.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'm having a flashback, but it's to the post I made a few minutes ago about not knowing Florida was known for its huge tweaker population!

[My Opinion Matters]

Chuck Yeager wasn't the first man to break the sound barrier. It was Jeff Demps.

[My Opinion Matters]

Percy Harvin is so fast he can run around the world and punch himself in the back of the head.

[My Opinion Matters]

Chris Rainey is so fast there's a sonic boom when he walks to the mailbox.

[Circle City Gator]

Chris Rainey is so fast there's a sonic boom when he walks to the mailbox.

Not true. Rainey doesn't use a mailbox. It is faster for him to just run to the sender and get it himself. :D

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

there are a couple of matchups that favor florida, there are a couple of matchups that favor OU. however, to sit here and say that to a man, every one of our players is 4 tenths of a second faster than the person opposite him is stretching it (i'm not even going to go into the whole look at all of our 40 times! maurice clarrett was timed under 4.4 while at ohio state).

lets take a guy like juaquin iglesias - he wasn't even rated by rivals coming out of high school when he signed with us. he runs a 4.5 (maybe). gah, that guy will never have a chance against our secondary that averages 3.1 in the 40. the funny thing is they said the same thing about wes welker going into the NFL (who maybe runs a 4.6). i guess those lightning fast NFL DBs (who are all .2 seconds slower than 1/2 your team) just feel sorry for the slow white kid. :(

[My Opinion Matters]

I'm not even going to get into whether these speed claims are legitimate or not (it's very likely they're not), but I'll go ahead give the Gators the benefit of the doubt on it.

Lets just assume this is true for the sake of discussion. So Florida has 10 guys that run sub 4.3, so Florida has 10 guys that are faster than 99% of the NFL. So what? Do you think speed was developed in a labratory at the University of Florida? Do you think no other school in the country has access to speedy recruits? Do you think Florida has the only coaching staff that has come up with this revolutionary idea that speed can be dangerous?

Assuming the speed claims are true, there's a reason why there's not guys like this in the NFL. NFL teams don't waste roster spots on track stars. That's really nice that they can run fast in a straight line, but what kind of football players are they? Track has been around a lot longer than football. How many track stars are in the NFL Hall of Fame? If speed was the only thing that matters, then why isn't Usain Bolt playing for the New England Patriots?

Florida may beat us, hell I've gone on record and picked them, but its not going to be because they have more track stars on their roster. Stupid argument.

[dingyibvs]

Look, we have an identity, and that identity is that we're fast. Yes, all teams like speed guys, but we tend to value them more. For example, Demps was not very highly recruited, but we wanted him a lot because of his world-class speed. So while his childhood dream school, FSU, told him flat out that they think he's just a track guy trying to play football, we offered him a scholarship early and stayed on him.

As for the times, they're a bit fast, but they're not as inaccurate as you'd think. That picture is of the chart posted in our locker room, and it's updated every spring I believe. A couple years ago, Chad Jackson posted a 4.32, he ran a 4.38 in the NFL combine. Last year, Andre Caldwell was listed at 4.29, which tied Harvin and was behind Murphy, he ran a 4.37 in the NFL combine. Chris Rainey's 4.24 was laser-timed in front of 60,000+ fans during the spring game in the "students vs. fb players" race prior to the main event.

However, the difference between a 4.3 and a 4.4 or even a 4.5 is minimal on the field. At the college level, at least, it's a lot more about execution, so while speed may be intimidating, it really isn't as big of a deal as in the NFL, where everyone executes and speed often becomes the deciding factor.

[My Opinion Matters]

For example, Demps was not very highly recruited, but we wanted him a lot because of his world-class speed. So while his childhood dream school, FSU, told him flat out that they think he's just a track guy trying to play football, we offered him a scholarship early and stayed on him.

How many Gator fans realize how telling a statement this is?

[DenverSooner751]

I'm not even going to get into whether these speed claims are legitimate or not (it's very likely they're not), but I'll go ahead give the Gators the benefit of the doubt on it.

Lets just assume this is true for the sake of discussion. So Florida has 10 guys that run sub 4.3, so Florida has 10 guys that are faster than 99% of the NFL. So what? Do you think speed was developed in a labratory at the University of Florida? Do you think no other school in the country has access to speedy recruits? Do you think Florida has the only coaching staff that has come up with this revolutionary idea that speed can be dangerous?

Assuming the speed claims are true, there's a reason why there's not guys like this in the NFL. NFL teams don't waste roster spots on track stars. That's really nice that they can run fast in a straight line, but what kind of football players are they? Track has been around a lot longer than football. How many track stars are in the NFL Hall of Fame? If speed was the only thing that matters, then why isn't Usain Bolt playing for the New England Patriots?

Florida may beat us, hell I've gone on record and picked them, but its not going to be because they have more track stars on their roster. Stupid argument.

Agree 100%.

Being faster than someone does not mean you are capable of breaking tackles and adding on yards after catch. Being fast means nothing unless the ball is in your hands, and BTW the guy who has the ball in his hands the most, Tebow, isn't on your fastest players in the universe list.

Seeing as how he IS the difference maker for your team, what say you to the speed argument now?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

A couple years ago, Chad Jackson posted a 4.32, he ran a 4.38 in the NFL combine. Last year, Andre Caldwell was listed at 4.29, which tied Harvin and was behind Murphy, he ran a 4.37 in the NFL combine. Chris Rainey's 4.24 was laser-timed in front of 60,000+ fans during the spring game in the "students vs. fb players" race prior to the main event.

so what you are saying is that your times were high by almost a tenth of a second from the nfl combine. however, given that players train like crazy for months to shave .1 to .2 off their 40 time for the combine (and succeed - mark clayton shaved his down to 4.4 a couple of years ago) do you think its possible that your guys are just about the same speed as ours?

[catsigater]

UF's guys are faster. In and of itself that's not everything, but it gives us an advantage.

You'll see.

[DenverSooner751]

so what you are saying is that your times were high by almost a tenth of a second from the nfl combine. however, given that players train like crazy for months to shave .1 to .2 off their 40 time for the combine (and succeed - mark clayton shaved his down to 4.4 a couple of years ago) do you think its possible that your guys are just about the same speed as ours?


The Florida players are most likely faster than our players by some measurable amount. However, I stress that the difference is not the speed of the individual, it's the talent to play football, and let's admit it, athletes are creatures of habit, this is what refines ones ability to perform at a high level, consistent and extensive practice.

The argument here (other than UF players being the faster humans to ever live) is how will our "slow" secondary cover these freaks of nature. In reference to my previous statment about "creatures of habit", UF wide outs have the least amount of game time experience in making this happen in the entire SEC. That's right, they have the lowest pass attempts per game in the whole conference.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/stats/byteam?cat1=offense&cat2=Passing&conference=I-A_SEC&year=2008&sort=531

So the point that OU will be scorched by these amazingly fast people seems to be somewhat moot in reference to the UF wideouts having experience on an extensive basis to get open due to their speed.

Now, UF does lead the SEC in passing touchdowns, 31, however, the leader of that statistic (receptions for TD) is Percy Harvin, a RB. The speed demon Demps? 1 TD out of 15 total receptions for the year. He played 12 games....very....underwhelming for the worlds fastest human in the galxay of the universe freak.

My two cents for what it's worth, the speed argument does not hold up, nor can it be quantified with any statistic that shows this to be a detriment to OUs chance of victory.

[OU_Sooners75]

UF's guys are faster. In and of itself that's not everything, but it gives us an advantage.

You'll see.

LOL

Says the bandwagon Florida Fan.

[DenverSooner751]

The Florida players are most likely faster than our players by some measurable amount. However, I stress that the difference is not the speed of the individual, it's the talent to play football, and let's admit it, athletes are creatures of habit, this is what refines ones ability to perform at a high level, consistent and extensive practice.

The argument here (other than UF players being the faster humans to ever live) is how will our "slow" secondary cover these freaks of nature. In reference to my previous statment about "creatures of habit", UF wide outs have the least amount of game time experience in making this happen in the entire SEC. That's right, they have the lowest pass attempts per game in the whole conference.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/stats/byteam?cat1=offense&cat2=Passing&conference=I-A_SEC&year=2008&sort=531

So the point that OU will be scorched by these amazingly fast people seems to be somewhat moot in reference to the UF wideouts having experience on an extensive basis to get open due to their speed.

Now, UF does lead the SEC in passing touchdowns, 31, however, the leader of that statistic (receptions for TD) is Percy Harvin, a RB. The speed demon Demps? 1 TD out of 15 total receptions for the year. He played 12 games....very....underwhelming for the worlds fastest human in the galxay of the universe freak.

My two cents for what it's worth, the speed argument does not hold up, nor can it be quantified with any statistic that shows this to be a detriment to OUs chance of victory.

One thing I did not add to this post though, special teams, this speed can and will hurt OU on special teams.

Beyond that, I'm not overly impressed with the equation of speed equaling production for UF against OU.

[dingyibvs]

The Florida players are most likely faster than our players by some measurable amount. However, I stress that the difference is not the speed of the individual, it's the talent to play football, and let's admit it, athletes are creatures of habit, this is what refines ones ability to perform at a high level, consistent and extensive practice.

The argument here (other than UF players being the faster humans to ever live) is how will our "slow" secondary cover these freaks of nature. In reference to my previous statment about "creatures of habit", UF wide outs have the least amount of game time experience in making this happen in the entire SEC. That's right, they have the lowest pass attempts per game in the whole conference.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/stats/byteam?cat1=offense&cat2=Passing&conference=I-A_SEC&year=2008&sort=531

So the point that OU will be scorched by these amazingly fast people seems to be somewhat moot in reference to the UF wideouts having experience on an extensive basis to get open due to their speed.

Now, UF does lead the SEC in passing touchdowns, 31, however, the leader of that statistic (receptions for TD) is Percy Harvin, a RB. The speed demon Demps? 1 TD out of 15 total receptions for the year. He played 12 games....very....underwhelming for the worlds fastest human in the galxay of the universe freak.

My two cents for what it's worth, the speed argument does not hold up, nor can it be quantified with any statistic that shows this to be a detriment to OUs chance of victory.

I understand that you don't watch Florida very often, so let me make a few corrections.

1)Harvin is primarily a receiver, he has 35 catches for 595 yards(17.0 avg) and 7 TDs. He's only our 3rd leading RB

2)Demps is primarily a running back, he has 69 carries for 582 yards(8.4 ypc) and 7 TDs. He's our 2nd leading RB, Rainey is the 1st. Not so underwhelming now, is it?

3)We don't throw a lot not because we can't, and you can see how efficiently we pass, it's because that unlike OU, we run the ball when we're up. In fact, that's the reason Rainey, our 3rd string RB, is the leading rusher on the team. Demps and Harvin usually don't play much past half-time, especially since mid-season when Demps separated from Rainey and became our starting RB, which results in Rainey having the most carries and yards on the team.

4)The speed won't torch you deep. You seldomly see wideouts get open deep against quality defenses because of speed. The speed, however, will help with YAC and the running game.

[Mark_in_Tulsa]

Look, we have an identity, and that identity is that we're fast. Yes, all teams like speed guys, but we tend to value them more. For example, Demps was not very highly recruited, but we wanted him a lot because of his world-class speed. So while his childhood dream school, FSU, told him flat out that they think he's just a track guy trying to play football, we offered him a scholarship early and stayed on him.

As for the times, they're a bit fast, but they're not as inaccurate as you'd think. That picture is of the chart posted in our locker room, and it's updated every spring I believe. A couple years ago, Chad Jackson posted a 4.32, he ran a 4.38 in the NFL combine. Last year, Andre Caldwell was listed at 4.29, which tied Harvin and was behind Murphy, he ran a 4.37 in the NFL combine. Chris Rainey's 4.24 was laser-timed in front of 60,000+ fans during the spring game in the "students vs. fb players" race prior to the main event.

However, the difference between a 4.3 and a 4.4 or even a 4.5 is minimal on the field. At the college level, at least, it's a lot more about execution, so while speed may be intimidating, it really isn't as big of a deal as in the NFL, where everyone executes and speed often becomes the deciding factor.

I'm glad and all that you have fast guys on your team. And that you are proud of that. But here at OU we like to recruit what we call football players. They tend to play well in a game of physical football. Where football speed, strength and IQ on the field is what matters.

[DenverSooner751]

I understand that you don't watch Florida very often, so let me make a few corrections.

1)Harvin is primarily a receiver, he has 35 catches for 595 yards(17.0 avg) and 7 TDs. He's only our 3rd leading RB

2)Demps is primarily a running back, he has 69 carries for 582 yards(8.4 ypc) and 7 TDs. He's our 2nd leading RB, Rainey is the 1st. Not so underwhelming now, is it?

3)We don't throw a lot not because we can't, and you can see how efficiently we pass, it's because that unlike OU, we run the ball when we're up. In fact, that's the reason Rainey, our 3rd string RB, is the leading rusher on the team. Demps and Harvin usually don't play much past half-time, especially since mid-season when Demps separated from Rainey and became our starting RB, which results in Rainey having the most carries and yards on the team.

4)The speed won't torch you deep. You seldomly see wideouts get open deep against quality defenses because of speed. The speed, however, will help with YAC and the running game.

For the god of existence with his 10.01 100 yard speed...YES very underwhelming.

[dingyibvs]

I'm glad and all that you have fast guys on your team. And that you are proud of that. But here at OU we like to recruit what we call football players. They tend to play well in a game of physical football. Where football speed, strength and IQ on the field is what matters.

Hence my last paragraph :)

Don't get me wrong though, a kid like Demps would not be playing if he isn't a football player. We definitely took a risk in signing him, with track money and "track guy playing football" being distractions, but he's proven to be a very good football player. He's not a juke and jive type like many small speedsters are(e.g. Rainey), he's a one cut and go type ala Harvin.

[catsigater]

UF's guys are faster. In and of itself that's not everything, but it gives us an advantage.

You'll see.


LOL

Says the bandwagon Florida Fan.

Hardly.

Moved to Fl from Laramie at 3 weeks old.

Father got his M.S.E.E at UF in '66 (the year Spurrier won the Heisman).
(Dad's High-School FB coach was head coach at Miami right before Schnellenberger).

Been going to UF games since the late '60s.

Graduated UF in '84, brother in '86.

Freshman year, we were 0-10-1

Been there, done that.


I'm glad and all that you have fast guys on your team. And that you are proud of that. But here at OU we like to recruit what we call football players. They tend to play well in a game of physical football. Where football speed, strength and IQ on the field is what matters.

Just what Bama said.

We've heard this song before.

EDIT: Sch*nell*en*berger = that old drunk.

Now that is funny.

[OU_Sooners75]

Hardly.

Moved to Fl from Laramie at 3 weeks old.

Father got his M.S.E.E at UF in '66 (the year Spurrier won the Heisman).
(Dad's High-School FB coach was head coach at Miami right before that old drunk).

Been going to UF games since the late '60s.

Graduated UF in '84, brother in '86.

Freshman year, we were 0-10-1

Been there, done that.



Just what Bama said.

We've heard this song before.

EDIT: Sch*nell*en*berger = that old drunk.

Now that is funny.



We have heard it all from teh likes of you before as well.

OU will be ready to play florida, and that is not a good thing if you are a gator fan.

[catsigater]

We have heard it all from teh likes of you before as well.

OU will be ready to play Florida, and that is not a good thing if you are a Gator fan.

Just wanted to make sure "bandwagon" doesn't mean something different in OK.

[L-Boy]

Another Big 12 Country Gator here too.:D

That post on team speed was enlightening. I know speed is not everything, but all else equal I'd rather have the speed. Evidence 2 years ago supposedly high flying Ohio State looked like a high school team vs the Gators. However, I think OK is better than that Ohio State team.

Interesting analysis by My Opinion Matters, although I think his conclusions are a bit biased, but that is understandable. However, I tend to take such analyses with a grain of salt. I recall some Ohio State posters posting these detailed position analyses 2 years ago of how Ohio State matched up better, but obviously that was not the case. It is just hard to compare 2 different schools in 2 different conferences. I could see this game going either way - it could be close, it could be a blowout either way.

I do think the team speed gives UF an advantage, along with the apparent fact that UF defense is markedly better. Special team play, advantage UF also. I think the offense is a push - OK may have better total numbers, but UF gets in and out pretty quickly, and I think they were #1 or #2 in average yds per play. Fact is the offense has not had to put up as much production because the defense and special teams have put up quite a few scores too.

[DenverSooner751]

Another Big 12 Country Gator here too.:D

That post on team speed was enlightening. I know speed is not everything, but all else equal I'd rather have the speed. Evidence 2 years ago supposedly high flying Ohio State looked like a high school team vs the Gators. However, I think OK is better than that Ohio State team.

Interesting analysis by My Opinion Matters, although I think his conclusions are a bit biased, but that is understandable. However, I tend to take such analyses with a grain of salt. I recall some Ohio State posters posting these detailed position analyses 2 years ago of how Ohio State matched up better, but obviously that was not the case. It is just hard to compare 2 different schools in 2 different conferences. I could see this game going either way - it could be close, it could be a blowout either way.

I do think the team speed gives UF an advantage, along with the apparent fact that UF defense is markedly better. Special team play, advantage UF also. I think the offense is a push - OK may have better total numbers, but UF gets in and out pretty quickly, and I think they were #1 or #2 in average yds per play. Fact is the offense has not had to put up as much production because the defense and special teams have put up quite a few scores too.

As a matter of objectivity, who was the best offense Florida faced all year?

[L-Boy]

As a matter of objectivity, who was the best offense Florida faced all year?


I haven't looked at the stats, but probably GA. So your argument may be that OK has faced better offenses, which could be true. Still, UF has looked pretty solid on defense, and OK quite pourous at times, so its hard not to give a prettty big edge to UF on that count.

This may be OU's best offense ever, but I imagine its one of Stoop's weaker defenses.

[DenverSooner751]

I haven't looked at the stats, but probably GA. So your argument may be that OK has faced better offenses, which could be true. Still, UF has looked pretty solid on defense, and OK quite pourous at times, so its hard not to give a prettty big edge to UF on that count.

This may be OU's best offense ever, but I imagine its one of Stoop's weaker defenses.

I would say, yes, OU has faced better offenses. I will not debate that this is one of the least stout defenses in Stoops history, but that is not the basis of my debate. The basis of my debate is this, UF defense looking solid against what I would classify as a very low performing offensive conference this year, does not lead to a conclusion that your defense is world class. I recognize that you can say the same about defense in the Big 12 and we could cut this thing a million different ways. This is the real matchup, OU offense against UF D, in the trenches. The speed conversation falls on deaf ears for me, I think it's power on power that will win this one.

[HungaryGator]

How many Gator fans realize how telling a statement this is?

Demps was a 4 star prospect who was recruited heavily by a few other bigtime programs. He played on a HORRIBLE HS team in a very small town so he flew under the radar somewhat. Jimbo Fisher told him fsu didn't want him and that he was "just a track guy". LOL! Thanks Jimbo!

[L-Boy]

I would say, yes, OU has faced better offenses. I will not debate that this is one of the least stout defenses in Stoops history, but that is not the basis of my debate. The basis of my debate is this, UF defense looking solid against what I would classify as a very low performing offensive conference this year, does not lead to a conclusion that your defense is world class. I recognize that you can say the same about defense in the Big 12 and we could cut this thing a million different ways. This is the real matchup, OU offense against UF D, in the trenches. The speed conversation falls on deaf ears for me, I think it's power on power that will win this one.

It just seems kind of convenient just to dismiss speed, when obviously that aspect does not fall into OU's favor, but whatever. I would expect the game will look something like OU TX - fairly high scoring, but UF coming out on top by about 10 points.

Your argument is basically SEC offenses suck, so we don't know whether UF defenses is any good or not. Maybe, but GA had a pretty good offense - good passing game and good running game, and UF shut them down pretty well.

[Desert Sapper]

The piece about our D having difficulty against mobile QBs is relatively accurate (see Colt McCoy, Josh Freeman, Zac Robinson, and even Jerrod Johnson) and the piece about our special teams struggles is also accurate. These are the two things that worry me most.

If OU gets to Tebow as it did with Robinson and equally fails to bring him down, we are in serious trouble. He is twice the threat that Robinson is.

If OU does not cover well, we will give up at least one if not more TDs on special teams. UF is not lights out on returns, but they have very fast players that return for them. One or two missed tackles or one missed assignment on special teams will kill us.

The speed at UF is a concern, given that Urban Meyer has always made it a priority to recruit speed and that those players have proven to be good at football. The biggest thing is how fast can you play? A team can only play as fast as it is prepared to play and that can only happen if a team knows what it is doing well enough to execute without much thought. I am convinced that UF can do that against the offenses in the SEC, because they face them every week (not much difference between what the schools run). The question is, can UF do that against an offense like OU's, which is dramatically different than anything they have faced all year?

I am interested to see what happens in this game, as I see two really great teams and a game that could go either way (and could get out of hand like the GOWWDNS with a few key mistakes at the right times).

[SoonerBoognish]

So, how did these speedsters not blow Michigan off the field? I mean, I've been told that the Big Ten is slow, and Florida is the fastest collection of people to ever look at a football. I'd have to assume that either one or both of those statements are crap, or that this "speed disparity" shouldn't really be where you put all of your confidence.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Speed won't matter much if the gators have nowhere to go in the running/scrambling game. Speed won't matter much if Tebow never gets a clean look at the field.

[SicEmBaylor]

Dude, you may want to think a little before you post. Griffin had over 100 yards rushing and Robisnon had 90. Bobby Reid is NOT a runner and why did you think this? B/c he's black?? Come on! And Vince Young rolled OU as well... don't see the point of the list here...

+2 TDs. Spek to you.

[gator.net]

So, how did these speedsters not blow Michigan off the field? I mean, I've been told that the Big Ten is slow, and Florida is the fastest collection of people to ever look at a football. I'd have to assume that either one or both of those statements are crap, or that this "speed disparity" shouldn't really be where you put all of your confidence.

Well, all those true freshman and sophomores on D had a year to grow...... the offensive speed players can't play defense ya know. I can't name one game other than the Auburn game last year where the offense cost UF the game. Florida put up 35 points against Michigan, which should be enough to win any game, and LOST. Sorry to bring this up, but OU knows something about this year too.

[DenverSooner751]

It just seems kind of convenient just to dismiss speed, when obviously that aspect does not fall into OU's favor, but whatever. I would expect the game will look something like OU TX - fairly high scoring, but UF coming out on top by about 10 points.

Your argument is basically SEC offenses suck, so we don't know whether UF defenses is any good or not. Maybe, but GA had a pretty good offense - good passing game and good running game, and UF shut them down pretty well.

Yes, and it is convenient for you tp assume BIG 12 defenses are weak and thus OUr production on offense is artificially inflated.

I'm not dismissing the speed comparison because it favors UF and not OU, it's true, the Florida players are faster. I am dismissing this notion that it is the only thing that matters. The claims that these "burners" are the real difference makers is ridiculous at best, especially considering your team is a whopping 3 points higher per game avg score production over last year, and "the real burners" were not even on the field.

UGA's offense is weaker than circus lemondae by comparison.

[DenverSooner751]

So, how did these speedsters not blow Michigan off the field? I mean, I've been told that the Big Ten is slow, and Florida is the fastest collection of people to ever look at a football. I'd have to assume that either one or both of those statements are crap, or that this "speed disparity" shouldn't really be where you put all of your confidence.

I'm not going to put much into the debate as far as how they did again Meatchicken last year, that was a different seaon/team.

I will agree with you on your last statement though. The speed disparity is not what will win this game. Our D-line is too good to allow Tebow enough time to throw the ball and allow "the real burners" to get wide open. Sorry, I do not buy the speed argument in the UF Offense argument.

Special teams though, yes, I agree, they are fast as light and it will hurt us there, the offense though, does not scare me.

[HungaryGator]

So, how did these speedsters not blow Michigan off the field? I mean, I've been told that the Big Ten is slow, and Florida is the fastest collection of people to ever look at a football. I'd have to assume that either one or both of those statements are crap, or that this "speed disparity" shouldn't really be where you put all of your confidence.

Last year our great Defense from 06 had been gutted by graduation and the loss of 4 Junior starters early to the NFL. On the DL we had 2 Seniors who had never played much and a whole bunch of Freshmen who didn't know what they were doing yet and who had not had time to add the strength/bulk to hold up against good teams. Also, we had a True Freshman and a True Sophomore at corner who weren't ready yet and a Freshmen and 2 True Sophomores at LB who didn't know how to cover anybody yet. Then one of the Senior DL we did have was lost for the season. We were so undersized/understrength in the middle that we had to move an OL over to NG just to give us a big strong 300 pounder up front because we didn't have any. That's how we lost 4 games last year and that's how Meatchicken moved the ball up and down the field on us in the bowl game last year. That was probably the weakest Defense we have fielded in 30 years.

Our Defense is vastly improved this year even though we are still young (no Seniors in the top 22). It wasn't a lack of speed, it was that we were just too young and our Linemen had not had the chance to master their techniques and had not had the chance to bulk up enough in the weight room because they were just too young. We have several 300 pounders available on the DL this year and we aren't getting pushed around by anybody anymore. Also, the Cornerbacks have become a team strength rather than a gaping weakness and our LB's both added about 15-20 pounds of muscle in the offseason as well as learned how to cover backs and TE's on passing routes.

[Circle City Gator]

How many Gator fans realize how telling a statement this is?

We all do. And we're laughing our you-know-what's off at FSU. If you think Demps is just a track star, you haven't watched him play. A "track star" does not average 9+ yards per carry in the SEC and against FSU. Note- that's not "yards per catch," it's "yards per carry," most of which came between the tackles. 5'8", 175 pounds, and between the tackles.

[DenverSooner751]

We all do. And we're laughing our you-know-what's off at FSU. If you think Demps is just a track star, you haven't watched him play. A "track star" does not average 9+ yards per carry in the SEC and against FSU. Note- that's not "yards per catch," it's "yards per carry," most of which came between the tackles. 5'8", 175 pounds, and between the tackles.

Demps does not average 9+ yards per carry.

69 attempts, 582 yards. 8.4 per carry.

Next!

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/stats/bycategory?cat=Rushing&conference=I-A_SEC&year=2008

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

i can't believe that you guys are arguing over a back who averages 6 carries a game.

[Circle City Gator]

Demps does not average 9+ yards per carry.

69 attempts, 582 yards. 8.4 per carry.

Next!

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/stats/bycategory?cat=Rushing&conference=I-A_SEC&year=2008

You are right. His average went down a little against 'Bama. Wow. 8.4 ypc sure sucks. They guy must just be a track star. :rolleyes:

[Curly Bill]

i can't believe that you guys are arguing over a back who averages 6 carries a game.

...but he's the fastest thing alive. :rolleyes:

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

You are right. His average went down a little against 'Bama. Wow. 8.4 ypc sure sucks. They guy must just be a track star. :rolleyes:

no its SKEWED. if he were averaging 220 yards/game ala barry sanders i'd be like "that guy is awesome" as it stands, every 2 games he could break an 80 yarder and then have 11 carries for 20 yards and average [wait for it] 9 yards per carry.

[Dan Thompson]

There where 3 games that would have been nice to watch.

11/22/08, home game against #2 Texas Tech, 65-21.
11/29/08, away game against #11 Okla St., 61-41.
12/06/08, neutral field game against #19 Missouri, 61-21.

[Circle City Gator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4TGG6Ega6o

[DenverSooner751]

no its SKEWED. if he were averaging 220 yards/game ala barry sanders i'd be like "that guy is awesome" as it stands, every 2 games he could break an 80 yarder and then have 11 carries for 20 yards and average [wait for it] 9 yards per carry.

Amen.

You're right, I don't know why I am wasting time arguing about this, the point you made just now pretty much nails it on the head.

[DenverSooner751]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4TGG6Ega6o

To further the point, that one play is just about 10% of his yearly total.

ONE PLAY.

[SoonerAtKU]

The dude averages 55 rushing/receiving yards per game. That's it. I'll wager if OU keeps him to 55, we'll feel all right about it.

[SoonerAtKU]

Meanwhile, Murray averages around 6.6 yards per touch rushing and receiving, and averages almost 116.5 a game. I know which one I'd prefer. They both get you first downs, but one of them shows up all game long.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

right now, i think the big 12 is overrated and florida has the edge. however, if the big 12 drags some teams behind the woodshed over the bowl season (especially that ole miss/ttech game), then i think the tables are turned.

[catsigater]

Meanwhile, Murray averages around 6.6 yards per touch rushing and receiving, and averages almost 116.5 a game. I know which one I'd prefer. They both get you first downs, but one of them shows up all game long.

Can you win without him?

[My Opinion Matters]

Can you win without him?

It certainly would be unprecedented.


The Sooners put up 627 yards, Chris Brown and Madu, the third-stringer playing because DeMarco Murray injured his knee on the opening kickoff, each ran for more than 100 yards and three scores.


From the Missouri game.

[catsigater]

Thanks, and I should've remembered that. I actually watched that game with a friend of mine who's a Mizzou grad.

Did he play the whole game against Texas?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

murray played the whole game against texas. let me clarify, someone wearing number 7 played running back the entire game against texas. he was beyond tentative the whole game.

[Cam]

Thanks, and I should've remembered that. I actually watched that game with a friend of mine who's a Mizzou grad.

Did he play the whole game against Texas?

When you're talking about D Murray, you're talking about two different backs this year. Pre-Texas, and post-Texas. He was coming off an injured knee from last year and ran very, very, very tentatively for the first 5-6 games. Since then, he's thrown caution to the wind and is back to the RB that he was last year.

No excuses, just facts. His head just wasn't there for the first part of the season. He finally flipped the switch and has been an absolute rock star since.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Can you win without him?

our 3 headed monster at running back is fairly entertaining to watch.

murray - reminds me a lot of tatum bell - one move at the LOS and then goes. can be nullified by penetration into the backfield. the typical counter to this is to playaction and sneak him past the blitz where he is a phenominal receiver.

chris brown - reminds me of a poor man's emmit - just bounces around in traffic for 5-6 yards - nothing over 30 yards but everything is positive yardage. he has only lost like 9 yards total on 1100 yards rushing. he makes some crazy cuts that you watch and your like "our d would have tackled him there" and yet, he keeps doing it and no one tackles him. incredibly dangerous inside the red zone.

mossis madu - kind of the newcomer to the bunch, he reminds me of a poor man's billy sims. a lot of shake, but more importantly great balance in the air. his last run in the big 12 championship game was classic billy (without billy's dispy doo into the end zone).

[tulsaoilerfan]

Thanks to the gator fans that have posted here, but i have a serious question for u that none of u have answered anywhere on here yet; maybe you haven't seen it,but it's been said many times. Outside of Tebow and maybe Stafford, can you name another QB in the all mighty SEC that could start on any team in the big 12 South? I've seen alot of sec this year, and the offenses are beyond suck; you can throw FSU and Miami into the equation also as both of their QB's are terrible;if u can hold us under 35, i will be shocked

[HungaryGator]

Thanks to the gator fans that have posted here, but i have a serious question for u that none of u have answered anywhere on here yet; maybe you haven't seen it,but it's been said many times. Outside of Tebow and maybe Stafford, can you name another QB in the all mighty SEC that could start on any team in the big 12 South? I've seen alot of sec this year, and the offenses are beyond suck; you can throw FSU and Miami into the equation also as both of their QB's are terrible;if u can hold us under 35, i will be shocked


Any? I'd put Jevan Snead up against anything aTm or Baylor have. For that matter, I think John Parker Wilson of Bama had a better season than the QB's of those two schools. Of course, I can turn the question around extremely easily. Outside of maybe Texas and Oklahoma, can you name another Defense in the all mighty Big 12 that could get on the field over any team in the SEC? I've watched quite a few Big 12 games this year. The Defenses do not offer more resistance than a wet tissue.

That's the question we don't know about each league. How strong is each's respective strong suit?---Conversely, how weak are they on the other side of the ball?

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'd put Jevan Snead up against anything aTm or Baylor have.

So 1/3 of the "good" quarterbacks in the SEC is a Texas reject?

[tulsaoilerfan]

Any? I'd put Jevan Snead up against anything aTm or Baylor have. For that matter, I think John Parker Wilson of Bama had a better season than the QB's of those two schools. Of course, I can turn the question around extremely easily. Outside of maybe Texas and Oklahoma, can you name another Defense in the all mighty Big 12 that could get on the field over any team in the SEC? I've watched quite a few Big 12 games this year. The Defenses do not offer more resistance than a wet tissue.

That's the question we don't know about each league. How strong is each's respective strong suit?---Conversely, how weak are they on the other side of the ball?

I would give you ATM for Snead, but not Baylor; Robert Griffin is a true freshman starting for one of the historically worst teams in the league, and the guy was pretty damn good this year; Wilson would never see the field anywhere but maybe ATM

None of us have went around saying the Big 12 defenses are great, but you SEC fans just can't see how horrible the QB play in your league was this year

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Any? I'd put Jevan Snead up against anything aTm or Baylor have. For that matter, I think John Parker Wilson of Bama had a better season than the QB's of those two schools. Of course, I can turn the question around extremely easily. Outside of maybe Texas and Oklahoma, can you name another Defense in the all mighty Big 12 that could get on the field over any team in the SEC? I've watched quite a few Big 12 games this year. The Defenses do not offer more resistance than a wet tissue.

That's the question we don't know about each league. How strong is each's respective strong suit?---Conversely, how weak are they on the other side of the ball?

um, jevan snead finished even in passing efficiency with the QB from baylor and that baylor QB almost had a 1000 yards rushing to boot.

as i said earlier, there are some assumptions being made by both sides about relative strengths of our O's and D's. what we don't have is a preponderance of evidence proving which one is right. as the bowl season unfolds, we'll start to make a case one way or the other.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Any? I'd put Jevan Snead up against anything aTm or Baylor have. For that matter, I think John Parker Wilson of Bama had a better season than the QB's of those two schools. Of course, I can turn the question around extremely easily. Outside of maybe Texas and Oklahoma, can you name another Defense in the all mighty Big 12 that could get on the field over any team in the SEC? I've watched quite a few Big 12 games this year. The Defenses do not offer more resistance than a wet tissue.

That's the question we don't know about each league. How strong is each's respective strong suit?---Conversely, how weak are they on the other side of the ball?

Ok, before you think that those 2 QB's could play at Baylor, you might need to look up the stats of the QB's

Snead QB Rating 142.71 21 year old Sophomore
Parker Wilson QB Rating 123.81 with a whopping 9 TD passes 23 year old senior

Robert Griffin-Baylor QB 18 Yr old TRUE Freshman 142.00 QB Rating, 15 TD passes, 11 Rushing TD's, and about 500 yards rushing.


Of course i'm sure Snead and Parker Wilson would have much better numbers playing against the horrible defenses of the Big 12

Again, if these are the 2 Best QB's you can find besides Tebow and Stafford then that backs up exactly what i have said about the SEC QB's this season.

R

[tulsaoilerfan]

Any? I'd put Jevan Snead up against anything aTm or Baylor have. For that matter, I think John Parker Wilson of Bama had a better season than the QB's of those two schools. Of course, I can turn the question around extremely easily. Outside of maybe Texas and Oklahoma, can you name another Defense in the all mighty Big 12 that could get on the field over any team in the SEC? I've watched quite a few Big 12 games this year. The Defenses do not offer more resistance than a wet tissue.

That's the question we don't know about each league. How strong is each's respective strong suit?---Conversely, how weak are they on the other side of the ball?

I do thank you for the response and hope you continue to be classy in your posts; good job!!

[Ban One Sooner]

The pass rush equation is what stands out in my mind. I assumed Florida was better than that. If they can't pressure Sam, it doesn't matter how good their DB's are, he will cut them apart. On the other hand, will be key to knock Tebow around and hopefully English will be full speed by the game.

[tulsaoilerfan]

um, jevan snead finished even in passing efficiency with the QB from baylor and that baylor QB almost had a 1000 yards rushing to boot.

as i said earlier, there are some assumptions being made by both sides about relative strengths of our O's and D's. what we don't have is a preponderance of evidence proving which one is right. as the bowl season unfolds, we'll start to make a case one way or the other.

JKM has spoken, so this thread should be closed :D

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Robert Griffin-Baylor QB 18 Yr old TRUE Freshman 142.00 QB Rating, 15 TD passes, 11 Rushing TD's, and about 500 yards rushing.


893 to be exact (he lost 290 to sacks :eek: )

[SoonerBoognish]

To me, arguing conference strength is somewhat fruitless. The strength on one side of the ball can be attributed to the weakness of the other side. Also it's entirely possible that both sides stink and one just happens to stink less. Almost like trying to glean useful info off of scrimmage stats. The qualitative would probably serve us better than the quantitative.

Having said that, the numbers are still interesting. Looking at the NCAA conference stats, i was curious which conference averaged more yard per play.

Big 12 SEC
Rush att. 5237 5263
YPA 4.41 4.11

Catches 3353 2335
YPC 12.30 12.18
Comp% 65.8% 55.5%

The only difference I see is the difference in catches made. Who knows why there's a difference there? It could be either a difference in QB skill, or the defenses, or both. I just don't see how anyone can really claim to be able to separate these factors, since they'd effect the stats the same way.

[Partial Qualifier]

This reminds me of the 2000 - 2004 era hornfans.com annual "we will beat OU and here are the stats to prove it" threads. Here's my analysis: If Percy Harvin isn't 100%, OU wins rather easily. If he's 100%, the game's a toss-up.

[Circle City Gator]

no its SKEWED. if he were averaging 220 yards/game ala barry sanders i'd be like "that guy is awesome" as it stands, every 2 games he could break an 80 yarder and then have 11 carries for 20 yards and average [wait for it] 9 yards per carry.

Sanders was truly amazing. No question about it. What I think you're missing, though, is that Florida has three different guys who break runs like that, which is why no individual has all the stats.

Against South Carolina (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=283200057) Harvin had TD runs of 25 and 80 yards, and Demps had one for 38.

Against Hawaii (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=282430057) Rainey had one for 33, Demps had one for 62, and James had a 74 yard punt return.

Against Arkansas (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=282780008) Demps had two, for 38 and 36, and Rainey took one for 75.

Demps took one for 42 against LSU (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=282850057).

Against FSU (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=283340052) Demp's longest was 44 and Rainey's was 62.

I think you guys underestimate Florida's running game and it's big strike potential. The key is speed, both up the middle and outside. It is also impossible to load the box against the Gators, given the speed of the receivers. That is part of what makes the running game work. Alabama was successful for three quaters because (a) they were able to cover with their corners, and (b) they were incredibly good at one man open field tackling. That is really the key against Florida's speedy little guys, not getting beat in the open field.

[My Opinion Matters]

Game over. Florida has 3 Barry Sanders. There's no way any team, college or professional, can compete with that.

[catsigater]

This reminds me of the 2000 - 2004 era hornfans.com annual "we will beat OU and here are the stats to prove it" threads. Here's my analysis: If Percy Harvin isn't 100%, OU wins rather easily. If he's 100%, the game's a toss-up.

I'd say if Percy's not 85% or better, I'll be very concerned. He's our best player. Can we win without him? The Alabama game proved we could. But even at 85%, he'll attract attention.

Can we outscore OU without him? It would be a steep uphill climb, that's for sure.

That was really my point when I asked if you'd won without Murray. Yes, I know you beat Mizzou without him, but let's face it, the Big 12 North is down worse than either division of the SEC this year. We faced down the #1 team in the country - without arguably the most dangerous weapon in college football.

I think that gives us confidence that we wouldn't have had otherwise. Stats are what fans argue with to kill time until the game. They don't mean a thing to the coaches or players, who look at matchups and tendencies.

Game planning and talent will determine the outcome. Both teams have plenty of the latter.

[catsigater]

Game over. Florida has 3 Barry Sanders. There's no way any team, college or professional, can compete with that.

Finally! Someone gets it.;)

[My Opinion Matters]

Look, I know Percy Harvin is a great player and all...but you're never going to convince he's any more dangerous than Jeremy Maclin.

[Soonersince57]

yawn

[catsigater]

Look, I know Percy Harvin is a great player and all...but you're never going to convince he's any more dangerous than Jeremy Maclin.

I don't expect to. That will be determined on the field.

But let's compare:

Rushing:

Percy Harvin Car 61 YDS 538 YPC 8.8 Long 80 (TD) TDs 9

Jeremy Maclin Car 35 YDS 250 YPC 7.1 Long 56 (TD) TDs 2

Receiving:

Percy Harvin REC 35 YDS 595 YPR 17.0 Long 70 (TD) TDs 7

Jeremy Maclin REC 95 YDS 1221 YPR 12.9 Long 80 (TD) TD 12

16 Tds for Percy vs 14 for Maclin. Maclin played 2 more games than Harvin, who missed the 1st and last game of the season.

YPC and YPR goes to Harvin also.

So no, I don't expect to convince you Harvin's more dangerous than Maclin, but like I said, there's an argument to be made that he is.

[Partial Qualifier]

That was really my point when I asked if you'd won without Murray.

Well, I know this was addressed by jkm -- yes he played against texas -- but that wasn't the same Demarco. As excuse-ish as it sounds, it's true: we didn't have a fully-recovered Demarco until several games later.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I think you guys underestimate Florida's running game and it's big strike potential. The key is speed, both up the middle and outside. It is also impossible to load the box against the Gators, given the speed of the receivers. That is part of what makes the running game work. Alabama was successful for three quaters because (a) they were able to cover with their corners, and (b) they were incredibly good at one man open field tackling. That is really the key against Florida's speedy little guys, not getting beat in the open field.

alabama lost that game because, down 4, they abandoned the run - 3 straight pass attempts with good field position at the 6 minute mark. at the time, i was like "paybacks, mr saban, paybacks" (since he won a national title because we did the same frickin' thing).

there are certain types of running backs that have brutalized our defense over the last 2 years. specifically, ones that could make ryan reynolds miss in space (which is where noel devine just killed us). the problem right now is that no one knows exactly what personnel they are going to use for the bowl game.

as i've said multiple times in this thread, i don't know what the relative strength of our teams is because i don't have much to go on. if i look at early season, we have...


tennessee losing to a horrible UCLA team.

colt mccoy running for big chunks of yardage on arkansas (just like your running backs did).

ole miss losing to wake forrest (7-5) and vandy (6-6) with most of their early wins being nail biters.

[catsigater]

As excuse-ish as it sounds, it's true: we didn't have a fully-recovered Demarco until several games later.

No, that's legit. And it's also legit for Gator fans to point to the fact we beat 'Bama without Harvin as being significant.

[ADs_Agent]

No, that's legit. And it's also legit for Gator fans to point to the fact we beat 'Bama without Harvin as being significant.

not reading the whole thread, so forgive me if this has been asked, but I'm under the impression on Tebow that he is great between the tackles but that if you spread him out he becomes nullified, as a Gator fan, what do you think on this?

[Circle City Gator]

not reading the whole thread, so forgive me if this has been asked, but I'm under the impression on Tebow that he is great between the tackles but that if you spread him out he becomes nullified, as a Gator fan, what do you think on this?

I will try to answer that. First, I believe it to be incorrect, but let me go on and tell you why.

If Tebow is running outside the tackles he is usually leading the option. When that happens the defensive end has the assignment to contain the RB, so Tebow is turning upfield against a linebacker. The linebacker will stop him, eventually, but won't stand him up. Tebow can get stacked up between the tackles, but in the open field usually get an additional 3 to 5 yards after contact, and contact in those cases is a couple yard past the LOS. I don't think you can call a 5-7 yard gain "nullified."

People who have not watched him play think they can pigeon-hole this guy. "He's really a fullback who can't throw," they say, until they watched hin pin-point precision against 'Bama, or noticed he only threw two interceptions all season. That is one example. Another, though, is that he is just a big bruiser who only runs straight ahead. Let me share with you a photo from last year:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/newpublius/GatorDay102.jpg

Last year, as a sophomore, Tebow benched 225 28 times. You've got to figure he can squeeze an additional one or two, at least, with another year of major college weight training. Just for comparison, look at the NFL Combine results for linebackers. Tebow, still a sophomore, would tie for fourth:

Keglar, Stanford Purdue 29
Crable, Shawn Michigan 29
Biermann, Kroy Montana 29
Goff, Jonathan Vanderbilt 28
TEBOW, TIM FLORIDA 28
Mapp, Durell North Carolina 27
Larsen, Spencer Arizona 27
Howard, Marcus Georgia 27
Williams, Thomas Southern Cal 26
Octavien, Steve Nebraska 26
Leman, Jeremy Illinois 26
Kehl, Bryan BYU 26
Bell, Beau UNLV 25
Wheeler, Philip Georgia Tech 24
Rivers, Keith Southern Cal 24
McClain, Jameel Syracuse 24
Moffitt, Ben South Florida 23
Lofton, Curtis Oklahoma 23
Henderson, Erin Maryland 23
James, Robert Arizona State 22
Hayes, Geno Florida State 22
Gooden, Tavares Miami 22
Gatewood, Curtis Vanderbilt 22
Vobora, David Idaho 21
Dizon, Jordon Colorado 21
Humpal, Mike Iowa 20
Grant, Larry Ohio State 20
Clermond, Joe Pittsburgh 20
Dunbar, Jo-Lonn Boston College 19
Brown, Titus Mississippi State 18
Watkins, Nick Clemson 17
Smith, Bryan McNeese State 17
Avril, Cliff Purdue 17
Allen, Steve West Texas AM 17
Guyton, Gary Georgia Tech 15
Bowen, Alvin Iowa State 15



But that is not really the most interesting part, particularly in response to your question. Tebow's "Pro Shuttle" was 4.03 and his "Three Cone Drill" ws 6.62. How does that compare to the Combines? I'm not even going to bother with the linebackers. Here are DB and WR results from the Combine:

He would place second among all the DBs and WRs who did the shuttle:

Shields, Arman Richmond 3.96
TEBOW, TIM FLORIDA 4.03
Porter, Tracy Indiana 4.07
Walker, Marcus Oklahoma 4.07
Cason, Antoine Arizona 4.08
Warrick, Nehemiah Michigan State 4.09
McKelvin, Leodis Troy 4.1
Sumrall, Brandon Southern Miss 4.1
Caldwell, Andre Florida 4.11
Douglas, Harry Louisville 4.12
Molden, Antwaun Eastern Kentucky 4.14
Jackson, Chevis LSU 4.15
Roach, David TCU 4.15
Grice-Mullen, Ryan Hawaii 4.16
Johnson, Jaymar Jackson State 4.18
Garcon, Pierre Mount Union 4.19
Burton, Keenan Kentucky 4.2
Hardy, James Indiana 4.2
Bennett, Earl Vanderbilt 4.22
Blythe, Todd Iowa State 4.23

He would also have been second in the Three Cone Drill:

Douglas, Harry Louisville 6.57
TEBOW, TIM FLORIDA 6.62
Shields, Arman Richmond 6.67
Rodgers-Cromartie, Dominique Tennessee State 6.74
Wheatley, Terrence Colorado 6.74
Caldwell, Andre Florida 6.75
Johnson, Jaymar Jackson State 6.75
Sumrall, Brandon Southern Miss 6.76
Burton, Keenan Kentucky 6.77
Walker, Marcus Oklahoma 6.80
Jackson, Dexter Appalachian State 6.81
Talib, Aqib Kansas 6.82
Scandrick, Orlando Boise State 6.83
Hardy, James Indiana 6.84
DeCoud, Thomas California 6.85
Molden, Antwaun Eastern Kentucky 6.85
Bryant, Dorien Purdue 6.88
Reynaud, Darius West Virginia 6.88
Roach, David TCU 6.88

The numbers, like so many reported from college campuses, might be a bit off for Tebow, but the guy is more of an athlete than most people realize. Also, just on the accuracy of the numbers, Caldwell ran a 6.75 Three Cone at the Combine, after spending the year out with an injury, and ran it at Florida in 6.65, so the times are probably not that far off. Even if you add another tenth of a second, or even two tenths, the guy is running with the WRs and DBs.

I hope I answered your question.

[ADs_Agent]

Good insight, I appreciate perspective from rival fans, another question. Seeing the offense that Oklahoma has, if the game goes into a score fest, do Florida fans think they can compete w/ OU? Is Florida wanting to contain or do what no team has been able to, stop the Oklahoma offense?

[My Opinion Matters]

But how can fast can he turn water into wine? Can you find those statistics for me? TIA.

[OklahomaTuba]

But how can fast can he turn water into wine? Can you find those statistics for me? TIA.

Depends, is The One there to help???

[Soonerbry]

ZZZZZZ....!

[GG84]

Good insight, I appreciate perspective from rival fans, another question. Seeing the offense that Oklahoma has, if the game goes into a score fest, do Florida fans think they can compete w/ OU? Is Florida wanting to contain or do what no team has been able to, stop the Oklahoma offense?

When people think of Urban Meyer and Florida, they think of the spread option and scoring points. Believe it or not, Meyer's number one goal each game is to win the field position battle and play great defense. If you look at the teams who lead the nation in points per game, you'll notice they also rack up a lot of yards (makes sense right?). For instance, your Oklahoma team is #1 in the nation in PPG and #3 in yards per game. Florida is #3 in PPG but only #18 in YPG. This is because we almost always win the field position battle and setup a short field for our offense. Chas Henry (our punter, one of the best in the country) and Brandon James (kick returner, again one of the best in the country) are just as important to our game plan as Tim Tebow and Percy Harvin.

The game plan against OU will be the same as it's been all year... we're going to try and setup situations where OU has to drive 75+ yards to score. So, to answer your question, I think Meyer would be much more comfortable with keeping the game in the 20s or 30s rather than the 40s or 50s.

[slmoore]

Trying to get my post count up so I can share some information about parking situation about NC game. Boomer Sooner!

[My Opinion Matters]

My estimation was this thread devolved into a "post here to pad your post count" thread about 5 pages ago. Now it's official.

[rammer jammer]

The real key will be can Florida's secondary cover the OU wide receivers. The two cornerbacks, janoris jenkins and Joe Haden are superb but the free safety Major Wright is not always johnny on the spot when the ball is thrown down field. This is my biggest concern. Will the gators D be able to cover the receivers and still be able to stop the OU run game with that Bad MF in the backfield. The real key is whether Major Wright can hold the coverage together so that Bradford doesn't have free running receiver like he has had in the last 6 or so games.

[ADs_Agent]

When people think of Urban Meyer and Florida, they think of the spread option and scoring points. Believe it or not, Meyer's number one goal each game is to win the field position battle and play great defense. If you look at the teams who lead the nation in points per game, you'll notice they also rack up a lot of yards (makes sense right?). For instance, your Oklahoma team is #1 in the nation in PPG and #3 in yards per game. Florida is #3 in PPG but only #18 in YPG. This is because we almost always win the field position battle and setup a short field for our offense. Chas Henry (our punter, one of the best in the country) and Brandon James (kick returner, again one of the best in the country) are just as important to our game plan as Tim Tebow and Percy Harvin.

The game plan against OU will be the same as it's been all year... we're going to try and setup situations where OU has to drive 75+ yards to score. So, to answer your question, I think Meyer would be much more comfortable with keeping the game in the 20s or 30s rather than the 40s or 50s.


I respect what you're saying, but OU's spread is different from any other team in the country in that it does not move side to side but down the field, Oklahoma State has a great punter, he won the kicker award, and look what OU did to them on their field.

[Circle City Gator]

Good insight, I appreciate perspective from rival fans, another question. Seeing the offense that Oklahoma has, if the game goes into a score fest, do Florida fans think they can compete w/ OU? Is Florida wanting to contain or do what no team has been able to, stop the Oklahoma offense?


A little of both, I'd say. One thing that is slightly misleading about the point differential between OU and UF is the difference in the teams they played against. More passing = more incomplete passes = more clock stoppage, so OU got a few more possessions per game. Both UF and OU can score at any time, and can score very quickly.

Against FSU we scored in:
4:08
4:20
4:27
1:07
0:40
1:30
1:21

Average time to score was under three minutes.

South Carolina
0:15
1:00
0:00 (interception return)
2:15
0:13
3:19
2:27
1:26

Average time was under 2 minutes.

Vanderbilt ... Aw hell, nobody cares about Vanderbilt.

Georgia
4:56
3:52
0:00
1:19
0:47
0:06
3:03

Average time was under 2 minutes.

LSU
1:38
5:16
4:10
4:38
4:25
0:00
2:14
4:23
2:45

Average time was well under 4 minutes.

Miami
1:44
5:50
1:34
1:31

Average time was under 3 minutes.

Tennessee
4:45
1:20
0:00 (punt return)
6:53
4:42
4:49

Average time was under 4 minutes.

Florida's is not a grind-it-out offense. Almost all our scores come in under five minutes, and many under 2 minutes. The difference is time of possession, not scoring speed.

Compare it to Oklahoma.

Cincinnati:

1:42
2:26
1:53
3:44
4:13
0:06
3:06
7:03

About 3 minutes

Washington:

2:10
0:21
2:38
3:51
1:55
1:18
2:12
3:23

Well under 3 minutes

TCU

2:06
4:49
0:12
0:30
2:08

Just under 2 minutes

K-State

1:29
1:45
0:23
0:31
1:34
1:33
1:00
0:00
3:42

Well under 2 minutes

Texas Tech

3:35
1:44
1:17
1:46
5:24
0:03
3:49
0:33
1:40
1:00

Just barely over 2 minutes.

The teams are scoring in similar time, with a similar number of plays. The biggest difference in time comes from running rather than throwing.

No, I think Florida can keep up if it turns into a shoot out. Whether we do, or you do, will come down to the defenses, not the superior scoring speed of either offense.

[ADs_Agent]

either way, this could shape out to be a helluva game

[catsigater]

Good insight, I appreciate perspective from rival fans, another question. Seeing the offense that Oklahoma has, if the game goes into a score fest, do Florida fans think they can compete w/ OU? Is Florida wanting to contain or do what no team has been able to, stop the Oklahoma offense?

I think a score fest plays to OU's strengths. But here's the problem OU will face if that's the case:


The average Sooner play takes only 22.4 seconds. The Gators burn 29 seconds per play.

This also works to increase the number of plays for Oklahoma's opponents as well. Texas Tech had 77 offensive plays in their loss to OU. Texas had 70 offensive plays and held OU to only 67 offensive plays in their 45-35 win, both above Florida's average of 61.5 offensive plays per game.

So as OU's next opponent how would Florida's offense fair with the 30 percent more plays that it will get in the BCS National Championship game?

Florida averages over 45 points per game, good enough for third in the country. Increase that by 30 percent and the result is 58.

So, if the Gators and the Sooners had the same number of offensive plays, Florida's average points per game increases to 58, which is better than OU's 54 points per game.

On defense, Florida's points allowed would only go up to 16.5 points per game, which is still well under OU's 24.5 points per game. Both defenses are solid.

Indeed, Oklahoma and Florida have explosive offenses that can put points on the board in a hurry.

However, the Gators have spent a little less time and effort doing so.

Efficiency.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/90423-florida-outscores-oklahoma-on-every-single-play-on-average


I'm not sure if 30 percent more plays translates into 30% more scoring, but I think the overall point is valid. OU scores quickly, which means UF gets more chances to score as well.

If it's true that Big 12 Ds are suspect, I think you've got some problems trying to stop the #3 scoring offense in the country.

UF was the #3 scoring offense in the country, if you accept SEC Ds are tougher, it's fair to say, had we faced Big 12 Ds all year, we'd be close to (y)OU.

If (y)OU(r) D holds up, you'll be in good shape, if not, it'll be a long night in Miami.

(Of course the same can be said for us. OU's offense is prodigious, for sure.)

[ADs_Agent]

I think a score fest plays to OU's strengths. But here's the problem OU will face if that's the case:



I'm not sure if 30 percent more plays translates into 30% more scoring, but I think the overall point is valid. OU scores quickly, which means UF gets more chances to score as well.

If it's true that Big 12 Ds are suspect, I think you've got some problems trying to stop the #3 scoring offense in the country.

UF was the #3 scoring offense in the country, if you accept SEC Ds are tougher, it's fair to say, had we faced Big 12 Ds all year, we'd be close to (y)OU.

If (y)OU(r) D holds up, you'll be in good shape, if not, it'll be a long night in Miami.

(Of course the same can be said for us. OU's offense is prodigious, for sure.)

I think it is safe to say on both ends, it comes down to the play making RB, if Percy Harvin and Demarco Murray are both ready to go, get ready for a shoot out, final score somewhere in the 45-55 range

[GG84]

The real key will be can Florida's secondary cover the OU wide receivers. The two cornerbacks, janoris jenkins and Joe Haden are superb but the free safety Major Wright is not always johnny on the spot when the ball is thrown down field. This is my biggest concern. Will the gators D be able to cover the receivers and still be able to stop the OU run game with that Bad MF in the backfield. The real key is whether Major Wright can hold the coverage together so that Bradford doesn't have free running receiver like he has had in the last 6 or so games.

With the extra time to prepare I think you will see the Gators use three safeties (Ahmad Black, Major Wright, and Will Hill) a lot. Wright will play up near the line of scrimmage for run support and to help on short passing routes. Black, and especially Hill, will drop back to cover the deep passes. Hill is only a true freshman, but he is a freak of nature (Scout profile: http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=55566). He's basically the east coast Taylor Mays.

[ADs_Agent]

Jermaine Gresham needs to have a HUGE game here folks, you hit him up the middle a couple of times, make the backers and the Dbacks respect that he's there, and then go over their heads, formula for success people

[My Opinion Matters]

Jermaine Gresham needs to have a HUGE game here folks, you hit him up the middle a couple of times, make the backers and the Dbacks respect that he's there, and then go over their heads, formula for success people

You should pass this on to Kevin Wilson.

[MikeInNorman]

Goodness sakes. After reading all this, I'd say we have no chance, no chance at all. What with the Olympic sprint champions all over the field, Saint Tebow of the Heisman Snub, the Traditional Powerhouse that is Florida Football, and, of course, the automatic superiority of the SEC in every aspect of college football, especially the waving of pom poms.

[The Maestro]

the automatic superiority of the SEC in every aspect of college football, especially the waving of pom poms.

Don't forget their frat boys where ties to the game. Shirts and ties, I tell you! How can we compete with that?

[MikeInNorman]

Don't forget their frat boys where ties to the game. Shirts and ties, I tell you! How can we compete with that?

No chance, no chance at all!

This is very depressing. Crap, the SEC also stole the great Gene Chizik away from the Big 12. Oh, the glory that would have been Iowa State......

[Circle City Gator]

Jermaine Gresham needs to have a HUGE game here folks, you hit him up the middle a couple of times, make the backers and the Dbacks respect that he's there, and then go over their heads, formula for success people

He is certainly a quality tight end. The problem with throwing to the tight end in the middle against Florida is Brandon Spikes. He's a first time All American with four interceptions and 2 touchdowns. Just about every pre-draft report puts him in the top 3 pro prospects, behind James Laurinaitis, and Rey Maualuga. Throwing the ball in his neighborhood is generally not a great idea.

[IB4OU2]

He is certainly a quality tight end. The problem with throwing to the tight end in the middle against Florida is Brandon Spikes. He's a first time All American with four interceptions and 2 touchdowns. Just about every pre-draft report puts him in the top 3 pro prospects, behind James Laurinaitis, and Rey Maualuga. Throwing the ball in his neighborhood is generally not a great idea.


We're doomed. :(

Why in the name of everything holy did'nt we play a decent secondary this year?

[MikeInNorman]

He is certainly a quality tight end. The problem with throwing to the tight end in the middle against Florida is Brandon Spikes. He's a first time All American with four interceptions and 2 touchdowns. Just about every pre-draft report puts him in the top 3 pro prospects, behind James Laurinaitis, and Rey Maualuga. Throwing the ball in his neighborhood is generally not a great idea.

And, I'll bet his back-up is really fast.

No chance, I tell you, no chance.

[Circle City Gator]

We're doomed. :(

Why in the name of everything holy did'nt we play a decent secondary this year?

Actually, our two biggest weaknesses on defense are probably our interior line's rush and the cover abilities of one of our safeties (big hitter, sometimes gets lost in coverage). The comment above is about a linebacker, and in response to a comment you can loosen up the run by throwing to the tight end in the middle. Florida is most vulnerable to the pass to the slot man or the wideout on an in-route over the LBs and under the corners, not to the TE in the middle. Just trying to give an honest analysis.

[My Opinion Matters]

So when he's not sacking Bradford every time he drops back to pass, he's intercepting all the passes intended for Gresham.

HE'S EVERYWHERE!!!

[Circle City Gator]

So when he's not sacking Bradford every time he drops back to pass, he's intercepting all the passes intended for Gresham.

HE'S EVERYWHERE!!!


No, he's not a big sack guy. He only has 2 all year, along with 4 "quarterback hurries." He has 4 interceptions, 2 run back for touchdowns, and 2 more passes broken up.

[My Opinion Matters]

No, he's not a big sack guy. He only has 2 all year, along with 4 "quarterback hurries." He has 4 interceptions, 2 run back for touchdowns, and 2 more passes broken up.

That's only because he's gone up against those monstrously physical SEC offensive lines. Trying to sneak around those is like trying to sneak around the Great Wall of China. Our offensive line, on the other hand, is a sieve. With his 3.8 speed, you can expect him to have about 15 sacks.

[MikeInNorman]

No, he's not a big sack guy. He only has 2 all year, along with 4 "quarterback hurries." He has 4 interceptions, 2 run back for touchdowns, and 2 more passes broken up.

Well, that's a relief.

I'll bet you leave all the sacking to Usain Bolt's faster brother, or whoever it is you have playing end.

[My Opinion Matters]

Does anyone know the tie-breaker rules for the BCS game? If it ever gets down to being settled by a footrace, we're screwed.

[Circle City Gator]

That's only because he's gone up against those monstrously physical SEC offensive lines. Trying to sneak around those is like trying to sneak around the Great Wall of China. Our offensive line, on the other hand, is a sieve. With his 3.8 speed, you can expect him to have about 15 sacks.

Actually, I was surprised he didn't have more sacks, given his ability to fly and make himself invisible. :P

[MikeInNorman]

Actually, I was surprised he didn't have more sacks, given his ability to fly and make himself invisible. :P

I imagined him as more of a combination of Forrest Gump and Bobby Boucher: all speed, Mack-truck hitting ability, and verbal incomprehensibility, Florida-style.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

it only took 5 pages to finally get some useful information out of this thread...

:bsmf:

[catsigater]

it only took 5 pages to finally get some useful information out of this thread...

:bsmf:

The initial post was all you needed to read... :D


I won't make anyone happy with this, but if I'm picking with my head I'd be forced to pick Florida.

[Frozen Sooner]

So when he's not sacking Bradford every time he drops back to pass, he's intercepting all the passes intended for Gresham.

HE'S EVERYWHERE!!!

You know what sucks about probably going to an SEC law school?

I'm going to have to say **** like that with a straight face.

I'm already prepping by saying "John Parker Wilson would have 42 TDs in the Big 12."

[swardboy]

I watched the Tennessee/Florida game from earlier this year on College.c.....talk about nothing special.

[Since71ASooner4Life]

This has been one of the better threads I've read here on SF.com - many quality posts by fans of both sides. I'll say this for the Florida fans - their views have substance and objective reasoning, unlike the little orange cow fan whiners who come here. Should be an excellent game.

[DenverSooner751]

I will try to answer that. First, I believe it to be incorrect, but let me go on and tell you why.

If Tebow is running outside the tackles he is usually leading the option. When that happens the defensive end has the assignment to contain the RB, so Tebow is turning upfield against a linebacker. The linebacker will stop him, eventually, but won't stand him up. Tebow can get stacked up between the tackles, but in the open field usually get an additional 3 to 5 yards after contact, and contact in those cases is a couple yard past the LOS. I don't think you can call a 5-7 yard gain "nullified."

People who have not watched him play think they can pigeon-hole this guy. "He's really a fullback who can't throw," they say, until they watched hin pin-point precision against 'Bama, or noticed he only threw two interceptions all season. That is one example. Another, though, is that he is just a big bruiser who only runs straight ahead. Let me share with you a photo from last year:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/newpublius/GatorDay102.jpg

Last year, as a sophomore, Tebow benched 225 28 times. You've got to figure he can squeeze an additional one or two, at least, with another year of major college weight training. Just for comparison, look at the NFL Combine results for linebackers. Tebow, still a sophomore, would tie for fourth:

Keglar, Stanford Purdue 29
Crable, Shawn Michigan 29
Biermann, Kroy Montana 29
Goff, Jonathan Vanderbilt 28
TEBOW, TIM FLORIDA 28
Mapp, Durell North Carolina 27
Larsen, Spencer Arizona 27
Howard, Marcus Georgia 27
Williams, Thomas Southern Cal 26
Octavien, Steve Nebraska 26
Leman, Jeremy Illinois 26
Kehl, Bryan BYU 26
Bell, Beau UNLV 25
Wheeler, Philip Georgia Tech 24
Rivers, Keith Southern Cal 24
McClain, Jameel Syracuse 24
Moffitt, Ben South Florida 23
Lofton, Curtis Oklahoma 23
Henderson, Erin Maryland 23
James, Robert Arizona State 22
Hayes, Geno Florida State 22
Gooden, Tavares Miami 22
Gatewood, Curtis Vanderbilt 22
Vobora, David Idaho 21
Dizon, Jordon Colorado 21
Humpal, Mike Iowa 20
Grant, Larry Ohio State 20
Clermond, Joe Pittsburgh 20
Dunbar, Jo-Lonn Boston College 19
Brown, Titus Mississippi State 18
Watkins, Nick Clemson 17
Smith, Bryan McNeese State 17
Avril, Cliff Purdue 17
Allen, Steve West Texas AM 17
Guyton, Gary Georgia Tech 15
Bowen, Alvin Iowa State 15



But that is not really the most interesting part, particularly in response to your question. Tebow's "Pro Shuttle" was 4.03 and his "Three Cone Drill" ws 6.62. How does that compare to the Combines? I'm not even going to bother with the linebackers. Here are DB and WR results from the Combine:

He would place second among all the DBs and WRs who did the shuttle:

Shields, Arman Richmond 3.96
TEBOW, TIM FLORIDA 4.03
Porter, Tracy Indiana 4.07
Walker, Marcus Oklahoma 4.07
Cason, Antoine Arizona 4.08
Warrick, Nehemiah Michigan State 4.09
McKelvin, Leodis Troy 4.1
Sumrall, Brandon Southern Miss 4.1
Caldwell, Andre Florida 4.11
Douglas, Harry Louisville 4.12
Molden, Antwaun Eastern Kentucky 4.14
Jackson, Chevis LSU 4.15
Roach, David TCU 4.15
Grice-Mullen, Ryan Hawaii 4.16
Johnson, Jaymar Jackson State 4.18
Garcon, Pierre Mount Union 4.19
Burton, Keenan Kentucky 4.2
Hardy, James Indiana 4.2
Bennett, Earl Vanderbilt 4.22
Blythe, Todd Iowa State 4.23

He would also have been second in the Three Cone Drill:

Douglas, Harry Louisville 6.57
TEBOW, TIM FLORIDA 6.62
Shields, Arman Richmond 6.67
Rodgers-Cromartie, Dominique Tennessee State 6.74
Wheatley, Terrence Colorado 6.74
Caldwell, Andre Florida 6.75
Johnson, Jaymar Jackson State 6.75
Sumrall, Brandon Southern Miss 6.76
Burton, Keenan Kentucky 6.77
Walker, Marcus Oklahoma 6.80
Jackson, Dexter Appalachian State 6.81
Talib, Aqib Kansas 6.82
Scandrick, Orlando Boise State 6.83
Hardy, James Indiana 6.84
DeCoud, Thomas California 6.85
Molden, Antwaun Eastern Kentucky 6.85
Bryant, Dorien Purdue 6.88
Reynaud, Darius West Virginia 6.88
Roach, David TCU 6.88

The numbers, like so many reported from college campuses, might be a bit off for Tebow, but the guy is more of an athlete than most people realize. Also, just on the accuracy of the numbers, Caldwell ran a 6.75 Three Cone at the Combine, after spending the year out with an injury, and ran it at Florida in 6.65, so the times are probably not that far off. Even if you add another tenth of a second, or even two tenths, the guy is running with the WRs and DBs.

I hope I answered your question.

Guys......do you know what this means?!?!

[Frozen Sooner]

Yeah.

Tim Tebow can't jump for ****.

[JLEW1818]

Steroids!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Frozen Sooner]

He DOES have a gigantor melon.

[Larry&Leisa]

He DOES have a gigantor melon.

ok... now THAT made me laff :pop:

[Circle City Gator]

Yeah.

Tim Tebow can't jump for ****.

Actually (sorry folks, but the guy is a freak), in high school he had a 32" vertical, about average among the NFL Combine linebackers willing to do the vertical.

[Frozen Sooner]

:rolleyes:

[My Opinion Matters]

Phil Loadholt once ate an entire birthday cake. With the stripper still inside it.

[Frozen Sooner]

Phil Loadholt once ate an entire birthday cake. With the stripper still inside it.

Unfortunately, he started early and had to do it over from five yards back.

;)

[SoonerBoognish]

Phil Loadholt once ate an entire birthday cake. With the stripper still inside it.

No man can eat 50 eggs.

[SCxxSOONER]

[I tried to post this as a new thread, but did not have the ability to do so- no problem, I'm a guest here]

How fast is Oklahoma? I'm looking at your media guide (http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1848720/Oklahoma-Sooners-Players-2008-Media-Guide), and I find:

Austin Box (LB) 4.6 40

Brett Bowers (DB) 4.5 40

Ryan Broyles (WR) no time listed, but benches 310 (Harvin benches more than 400 - just thought you'd want to know)

Brandon Caleb (WR) Rivals (http://oklahoma.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=37875&Sport=1) lists him at 4.62. He was a track athlete in Virginia, winning the High School triple jump with a distance of 46'5" (Harvin did better the next year in Virginia- 48'2.5"), 21'9" in the long jump (Harvin did better the next year in Virginia- 23'5.5") The guy is obviously an athlete, but 4.6?

Quinton Carter (WR) 4.45 40, according to a Sooner website (http://www.soonersports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/carter_quinton00.html).

Quiton Chaney (WR) 4.5 according to Rivals (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=36658).

Keenan Clayton (LB) 4.52 according to the media guide.

Dominique Franks (DB) 4.48 according to the media guide.

Nic Harris (DB) 4.5 according to the media guide.

Lendy Holmes (DB) 4.42 according to Scout (http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=8&c=1&nid=571131).

Juaquin Iglesias (WR) 4.5, or so say NFL scouts (http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/wr/Juaquin-Iglesias.php).

Brian Jackson (DB) 4.5 (media guide)

Desmond Jackson (DB) 4.5 (media guide) [ you guys have a heck of a lot of DBs]

DeMarco Murray (RB) 4.42 a "team best" according to the media guide. Really? Team best?

Before I introduce you to Florida speed, let me start by acknowledging that school-times 40 speeds are almost always suspect. That said, Florida's are no more suspect than Oklahomas, and given that Rainey anchored UF track's NCAA outdoor 4th place 4x100, they might just be right. Okay, Florida speed. I'm going to show you a picture, but the fastest guy isn't even on the board, since he's a true freshman. Jeff Demps was the fastest high schooler in history, with 10.01 100 meters at the Olympic trials. Okay, here goes:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w303/IllIllII3/GatorSports/TheWall.jpg

No, I won't make you squint:

Chris Rainey (RB) 4.24

Louis Muprhy (WR) 4.25

Percy Harvin (Ath) 4.26

Deonte Thompson (WR) 4.28

Wondy Pierre-Louis (DB) 4.31

Joe Haden (4.33)

Justin Williams (DB) 4.35

Dorian Munroe (DB) 4.37

Kestahn Moore (RB) 4.37 (he's our FULLBACK)

Those times don't include Brandon James or Emmanuel Moody, either.

I wonder if you realize just how absurdly fast Florida is? I have been watching college football since Steve Spurrier won a Heisman Trophy, and this is, BY FAR, the fastest team I have ever seen. Is Oklahoma fast enough to keep up? If not, you are going to have to play very deep and soft to keep these guys in front of you. That means Tebow can pick apart the zone, because there will be plenty of room in the seams, and that there will be plenty of room to run, as safeties play on their heels.

We have better speed than indicated there, Demps would also be on the 4.2 list

[Crucifax Autumn]

As I said before, we have game speed. period.

[MikeInNorman]

Actually (sorry folks, but the guy is a freak), in high school he had a 32" vertical, about average among the NFL Combine linebackers willing to do the vertical.

Holy Crap. Sounds like Saint Tebow of the Heisman Snub will make one heck of a combine linebacker.

No chance. No chance, I tell you.

[catsigater]

I think it is safe to say on both ends, it comes down to the play making RB, if Percy Harvin and Demarco Murray are both ready to go, get ready for a shoot out, final score somewhere in the 45-55 range

Bummer about Murray. I mean that. Looks like some folks are going to have to step up the way our guys did when Harvin missed the SECCG.

[The Maestro]

We have better speed than indicated there, Demps would also be on the 4.2 list

Running in open space in shorts = fast.

Running in pads with people looking to pound your *** = football.

And I bet the Florida coaches with the stop watches wanted to make the guys feel better, too.

What is Tom Brady's 40 time? Adrian Peterson? Albert Haynesworth? Kurt Warner?

Speed helps, but football takes a lot more than running fast. Otherwise, does Bolt have some eligibilty left?

[catsigater]

Running in pads with people looking to pound your *** = football.

YPC
Chris Rainey 7.9
Jeffery Demps 8.4
Tim Tebow 3.7
Percy Harvin 8.8

Chris Brown 5.7
DeMarco Murray 5.6
Mossis Madu 4.2
Sam Bradford 1.6

Going on yards per carry, I'd say we've got plenty of people who can run in pads on our team.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

YPC
Chris Rainey 7.9
Jeffery Demps 8.4
Tim Tebow 3.7
Percy Harvin 8.8

Chris Brown 5.7
DeMarco Murray 5.6
Mossis Madu 4.2
Sam Bradford 1.6

Going on yards per carry, I'd say we've got plenty of people who can run in pads on our team.

dude, you're something else. did you know in 2003 we had a kid named danta hickson who averaged 11 yards/carry? according to your criteria that guy was awesome. what? oh, he averaged about 22 yards/game. BUT HE AVERAGED 11 YARDS A CARRY!!!!

[The Maestro]

dude, you're something else. did you know in 2003 we had a kid named danta hickson who averaged 11 yards/carry? according to your criteria that guy was awesome. what? oh, he averaged about 22 yards/game. BUT HE AVERAGED 11 YARDS A CARRY!!!!

Heh.

I guess I led my junior high hoops team in scoring. I played one quarter and scored 6 points.

24 points a game, baby!

Oh, and Gator fans...feel free to start talking about passing numbers and receivers who can have monster games anytime you want. I'd love to see your spin on that aspect of the game.

[HungaryGator]

dude, you're something else. did you know in 2003 we had a kid named danta hickson who averaged 11 yards/carry? according to your criteria that guy was awesome. what? oh, he averaged about 22 yards/game. BUT HE AVERAGED 11 YARDS A CARRY!!!!

Ummm....our guys average more than 2 carries per game. They average enough carries in fact that we led the SEC in rushing.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Ummm....our guys average more than 2 carries per game. They average enough carries in fact that we led the SEC in rushing.

oh, so if i go look at the SEC rushing totals i'll see

1. demps
2. harvin
3. rainey
4. tebow

wow, that's awesome. i mean i thought it was awesome to have 2 1000 yard rushers. but to have 4 guys at a 1000 is just beyond insane...

[catsigater]

dude, you're something else. did you know in 2003 we had a kid named danta hickson who averaged 11 yards/carry? according to your criteria that guy was awesome. what? oh, he averaged about 22 yards/game. BUT HE AVERAGED 11 YARDS A CARRY!!!!

*sigh*

I didn't think I'd need to explain that those are the top 4 rushers, in total yardage, dude, from both teams.

OU's top 4 account for 2640 out of 2672 (or 99%) total rushing yards. Bradford has 65 yards total. (Y)OU(r) #5 rusher is Johnson, with 24 yds and 1.7 YPC.

UF's top 4 account for 2339 out of 2672 (or 78%) total rushing yards. Tebow has 564. Our number 5 back is Moody, with 417 total and 7.3 YPC.

It will be easier for UF to stop OUs run game and make them one-dimensional, than it will be for OU to stop UFs run game. That still leaves OU in decent shape with their phenomenal passing game, the likes of which we have not seen.

But UF has a more balanced running attack with more people who can gash you for long runs from anywhere on the field. (Y)OU have not faced a running attack like ours. The closest was OSU, who scored 41 on (y)OU. You will not score 41 on UF.

Our QB, while nowhere near the "pure passer" Bradford is, will feast on (y)OU(r) secondary as (y)OU load the box to try and stop the bleeding our runners will inflict upon (y)OU.

[Gatorzz]

This sounds really familiar. Maybe because that's exactly what I've already said.



False.



Also false.



Speculation.



False.



Have you followed OU football at all this year? Something about record-setting offense and getting out to huge leads ring a bell?



You're 1-1 in these games. So what was your point again?



What exactly is false about what I wrote?

You say Florida doesnt have the best special teams in the country because you are using stats to determine that, and then when I use stats to show UFs defense and special teams is better than OUs, it is dismissed as speculation? LOL.

How convenient of you to pick UF "officially" yet argue till blue in the face why Oklahoma is better in all of the unofficial posts. Kind of nice to take both sides.

And I am not 1-1 in any games. The Florida Gators are. Not me. Not you.

I dont think I can have a conversation with someone who uses the words we, and you.

[Gatorzz]

Meanwhile, Murray averages around 6.6 yards per touch rushing and receiving, and averages almost 116.5 a game. I know which one I'd prefer. They both get you first downs, but one of them shows up all game long.

Florida rotates fresh backs in/ fresh legs. Harvin, Rainey, Demps, Moody, Tebow all split carries every single game. Even Moore gets carries every few games. So there isnt going to be a guy that has 1,200 yards rushing, but Florida takes the approach of using its speed to rotate fresh, fast backs into the game every few plays. There isnt much of a speed advantage if your guys are tired and out of breath.

[The Maestro]

Florida rotates fresh backs...fresh legs...fresh backs

Their fresh their so fresh...their so fresh...their so fresh...their so fresh, their fresh, fresh...so fresh!

http://alexwilliams.org/images/koolweb.jpg

[toast]

so, in summary of all the posts from the gator fans:

Florida offense = every player that touches the ball is extremely fast, in fact the entire rb/wr corps run sub 4.4 forties. Every running back has extremely high yards per carry average. Tebow can bench press 225 lbs 28 times, has pin-point accuracy on his passes, runs the option and can run over any linebacker.



Evidently, Ole Miss must have the best defense in the universe.


How is OU even going to have a chance to compete in this game?

[Circle City Gator]

so, in summary of all the posts from the gator fans:

Florida offense = every player that touches the ball is extremely fast, in fact the entire rb/wr corps run sub 4.4 forties. Every running back has extremely high yards per carry average. Tebow can bench press 225 lbs 28 times, has pin-point accuracy on his passes, runs the option and can run over any linebacker.



Evidently, Ole Miss must have the best defense in the universe.


How is OU even going to have a chance to compete in this game?

You got it about right. As for Ole Miss- we lost 3 fumbles. That was the story of that game. We also had two scoring (TD) drives in under two minutes, and one in just 12 seconds.

It will be interesting to see how Ole Miss does against Texas Tech. I don't think they will put up anything like the pinball-points you guys did, but I wonder if they will shut Harrell down. They play on the second at 2.

[catsigater]

You got it about right. As for Ole Miss- we lost 3 fumbles. That was the story of that game. We also had two scoring (TD) drives in under two minutes, and one in just 12 seconds.

It will be interesting to see how Ole Miss does against Texas Tech. I don't think they will put up anything like the pinball-points you guys did, but I wonder if they will shut Harrell down. They play on the second at 2.

No OU fan cares what any other Big 12 team does. So if TT wins, that won't mean anything to 'em.

[birddog]

No OU fan cares what any other Big 12 team does. So if TT wins, that won't mean anything to 'em.

heh. the big 12 is a "gang". we stick up for each other. :rolleyes:

why would we pull for teams we recruit against? you sec guys are the dumbest sobs i've ever seen.

it's comical.

[Circle City Gator]

heh. the big 12 is a "gang". we stick up for each other. :rolleyes:

why would we pull for teams we recruit against? you sec guys are the dumbest sobs i've ever seen.

it's comical.

Where did I say you would be pulling for Texas Tech? I said it would be "interesting," as in interesting to see an SEC defense vs. Big 12 Offense match-up.

[HungaryGator]

oh, so if i go look at the SEC rushing totals i'll see

1. demps
2. harvin
3. rainey
4. tebow

wow, that's awesome. i mean i thought it was awesome to have 2 1000 yard rushers. but to have 4 guys at a 1000 is just beyond insane...

Why do you hate straw men so much?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

It will be easier for UF to stop OUs run game and make them one-dimensional, than it will be for OU to stop UFs run game. That still leaves OU in decent shape with their phenomenal passing game, the likes of which we have not seen.


you seriously can't believe crap like this.

adrian peterson has 1681 yards rushing for minnesota
the miami dolphins have 1603 yards rushing as a team

so what you are saying is that its easier to stop adrian peterson because he's "1 guy" than it is to stop the miami dolphins wildcat attack because they have several guys that add up to that many yards?

you spread the ball around because you don't have a dominant back. i'm cool with that, but trying to extrapolate that and say things like "your attack is easier to stop because you only have one guy to stop" is just not understanding this game.

you see, i could give you a counter argument - that your offense is so gimmicky that the reason for its success is that teams don't have enough time to prepare for it during the season. however, that argument, while having some parts truth, doesn't take into account the superb execution with which you run your offense. it also belittles all that you've accomplished this year, which isn't something that i'm going to do.

[catsigater]

you seriously can't believe crap like this.

adrian peterson has 1681 yards rushing for minnesota
the miami dolphins have 1603 yards rushing as a team

so what you are saying is that its easier to stop adrian peterson because he's "1 guy" than it is to stop the miami dolphins wildcat attack because they have several guys that add up to that many yards?

you spread the ball around because you don't have a dominant back. i'm cool with that, but trying to extrapolate that and say things like "your attack is easier to stop because you only have one guy to stop" is just not understanding this game.

you see, i could give you a counter argument - that your offense is so gimmicky that the reason for its success is that teams don't have enough time to prepare for it during the season. however, that argument, while having some parts truth, doesn't take into account the superb execution with which you run your offense. it also belittles all that you've accomplished this year, which isn't something that i'm going to do.

You're wrong. We don't have a dominant back, only in the sense that we have athletes who'd be the "go-to" players on any other team. On our team, they're one of many.

As far as dumb arguments, we handled bama without our best player. Do you think Minnesota'd be a playoff team without Peterson? Could they beat Miami without him? Could they beat Kansas City?

Demps and Rainey are freshman. Moody would be starting on any other team and would have 1000 yards, but that's not our system.

As far as the "gimmicks" argument, you're wise not to go down that road, as Bama learned, much to their chagrin.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

As far as the "gimmicks" argument, you're wise not to go down that road, as Bama learned, much to their chagrin.

whoa, i could have swore that bama was ahead late into the 3rd quarter. as a matter of a fact, i could have swore that they were down by 4 with 10 minutes left in the game. you seem to be acting like the game was over at halftime.


Demps and Rainey are freshman. Moody would be starting on any other team and would have 1000 yards, but that's not our system.

you see, this is where you guys get me. i would never come out and say that our backs, who i think are pretty good and had a 1000 yards on the season, would have them at any other school, because well, i know how much wazzou and washington suck.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

and what is it with florida teams and their bouncing ball approach to logic.

your running game is easier to stop because you have 1 back to stop and we have 4.

uh, this is why this isn't right

no its right because we beat bama without our best player

well, maybe alabama had an off day, maybe they weren't as good as everyone said they were.

they were playing better than they had all year because the refs made us run backwards to give them a chance

[truly you guys have a dizzying intellect]

[catsigater]

whoa, i could have swore that bama was ahead late into the 3rd quarter. as a matter of a fact, i could have swore that they were down by 4 with 10 minutes left in the game. you seem to be acting like the game was over at halftime.

Far from it. I congratulated you for not using 'bama's argument that we were all gimmick and they'd wear us down. They learned that wasn't the case. We were faster, and more physical than they were in the 4th quarter when they thought they'd wear us down.

Turns out they had a total of 1 yard of offense.


you see, this is where you guys get me. i would never come out and say that our backs, who i think are pretty good and had a 1000 yards on the season, would have them at any other school, because well, i know how much wazzou and washington suck.

You guys have some talented backs. But I know you've got to be concerned that Murray is out. Just like we were when we didn't have Harvin against 'bama. (And please don't tell me he was out against Mizzou. I live in KC and I've watched Mizzou all year.)

UF passed the test. Will OU?


and what is it with florida teams and their bouncing ball approach to logic.

your running game is easier to stop because you have 1 back to stop and we have 4.

uh, this is why this isn't right

no its right because we beat bama without our best player

well, maybe alabama had an off day, maybe they weren't as good as everyone said they were.

they were playing better than they had all year because the refs made us run backwards to give them a chance

[truly you guys have a dizzying intellect]

It does take a bit of work, knocking down all the straw men you guys set up.

[Oldnslo]

and what is it with florida teams and their bouncing ball approach to logic.

your running game is easier to stop because you have 1 back to stop and we have 4.

uh, this is why this isn't right

no its right because we beat bama without our best player

well, maybe alabama had an off day, maybe they weren't as good as everyone said they were.

they were playing better than they had all year because the refs made us run backwards to give them a chance

[truly you guys have a dizzying intellect]

WAIT TILL I GET STARTED!!!1!!!!11

[tulsaoilerfan]

You're wrong. We don't have a dominant back, only in the sense that we have athletes who'd be the "go-to" players on any other team. On our team, they're one of many.

As far as dumb arguments, we handled bama without our best player. Do you think Minnesota'd be a playoff team without Peterson? Could they beat Miami without him? Could they beat Kansas City?

Demps and Rainey are freshman. Moody would be starting on any other team and would have 1000 yards, but that's not our system.

As far as the "gimmicks" argument, you're wise not to go down that road, as Bama learned, much to their chagrin.

That's funny because i could swear that Moody spent a year at USC not starting and that's why he is at Florida now

[catsigater]

That's funny because i could swear that Moody spent a year at USC not starting and that's why he is at Florida now

He was their second leading rusher as a freshman, with the best YPC on the team - playing behind a red-shirt junior who ran for over 900 yards the next year. You can draw your own conclusions, as to why he transferred, but he's a good back. He transferred out at the beginning of his sophomore year. Now he's playing behind Demps, Harvin and Rainey.

So when I say we've got guys who would start on any other team, the fact that USCs best freshman (and most efficient and second most productive runner) from 2006 is now playing behind two current freshman tends to back that up.

[Crucifax Autumn]

That or it proves that the big star transfer from a big-time program turned out to be a crappy system player who couldn't really produce so he fell behind a couple of freshmen.

[catsigater]

That or it proves that the big star transfer from a big-time program turned out to be a crappy system player who couldn't really produce so he fell behind a couple of freshmen.

The jury's still out.

[Crucifax Autumn]

True enough.

I guess the big question is if any of them can stand up to Oklahoma's hard hitting. Every game I watched this year, all of them to be exact, I saw someone on the opposing team limping off the field looking like one of the zombies in the Living Dead movies....and those are the ones that didn't get carried off. Those guys just moaned a lot. We give up some yards, but they come at a heavy price to the guy picking them up in most cases.

[MikeInNorman]

and what is it with florida teams and their bouncing ball approach to logic.


[truly you guys have a dizzying intellect]

jkm, it's simple. These Gators are so Aggy they would make the resident philosophers at Eskimo Joe's turn a greener shade of orange in envy.

The lack of "State" or "A&M" in Florida's name makes them no less Aggy.

We have discovered a particularly virulent strain of Aggy Logic, proving our worst fears about what would happen if the Stoolwater Aggy were to ever have any success on the football field. Yikes.

[tulsaoilerfan]

He was their second leading rusher as a freshman, with the best YPC on the team - playing behind a red-shirt junior who ran for over 900 yards the next year. You can draw your own conclusions, as to why he transferred, but he's a good back. He transferred out at the beginning of his sophomore year. Now he's playing behind Demps, Harvin and Rainey.

So when I say we've got guys who would start on any other team, the fact that USCs best freshman (and most efficient and second most productive runner) from 2006 is now playing behind two current freshman tends to back that up.

He transferred out cause he thought he wouldn't get enough playing time, and now he's not starting at Florida either, which tells me he isn't all you make him out to be( no offense to u)

[GG84]

Moody has over 400 yards and averages 7.3 ypc.

He's good, he's just not the home run threat that Rainey and Demps are.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Moody has over 400 yards and averages 7.3 ypc.

He's good, he's just not the home run threat that Rainey and Demps are.

If he was that good he would be starting

[HiFiGator]

I am coming in to this particular part of the discussion rather late. But from the bits and pieces I have seen, I think there could be some confusion. If OU wants to hype up the "dominant player" theory at running back, since they have 2 1000 yard rushers, then that is legitimate. If they want to question the "tailback by committee" that Meyer has employed, then that too, is valid. But to the OU faithful, I would question whether you could honestly, at least with a straight face, suggest that Murray's loss is actually a posititve, since you will now not be somehow ... for lack of a better word ... confused, because you no longer have that "question." But similarly, no Gator fans should question the fundamental success of "tailback by committee."

However, since OU has been used to interchangeable options at the TB position all year, it is valid to question how this particular limitation could affect their options/performance.

As for Florida, the question still remains whether the strategy of having a platoon of backs carry the load.


One last reply to saoilerfan, he might be starting for most teams, but Meyer is a bit different. Moody hasn't yet secured the top spot. But it's uncertain whether that is because he isn't "that good" or whether the other guys are better than originally thought.

[dingyibvs]

I would give you ATM for Snead, but not Baylor; Robert Griffin is a true freshman starting for one of the historically worst teams in the league, and the guy was pretty damn good this year; Wilson would never see the field anywhere but maybe ATM

None of us have went around saying the Big 12 defenses are great, but you SEC fans just can't see how horrible the QB play in your league was this year

Should tell you all you need to know about Big 12 defenses. Do you think it's a coincidence that even Baylor's QB is having almost unprecedented type of success? I'm not saying that Baylor's passing well so Big 12 defense suck, I'm presenting it as just one more piece of evidence. It can't be a coincidence that ALL those QBs are doing so much better than average years and they just happen to be in the same conference. It's not like the SEC defenses, which regularly has ~6 in the top ~25 in both total and scoring defense.

[SoonerAtKU]

I don't know where you've seen anyone indicate that losing Murray for a national championship game is a good thing. It's bad, and it makes us a worse football team on that day.

As to your points about running backs, the prevailing wisdom is that if you have two (or three) great players at one position, you really don't have any. Meaning that if one of them can't stand out, then you have a group of average to good players and no great ones. Maybe I'm just blinded, but in the case of Brown, Murray, and now Madu, I truly believe that they all offer something unique. This is enough, for me, to move past that belief and into a new situation.

As to Florida, what sets each of your backs apart from one another? If they are the same type of runner, why hasn't one stood apart yet? You say Moody's not a homerun threat, so why is he in the discussion as a first-teamer?

[catsigater]

You say Moody's not a homerun threat, so why is he in the discussion as a first-teamer?

The statement was he isn't the home run threat Demps and Rainey are. Neither are Brown or Madu.

If either were at UF, they'd be in Moody's position, playing behind Demps and Rainey, whose longest runs are nearly double Brown's or Madu's; and whose YPC (Demps: 8.4; Rainey: 7.9) are much better than either Brown's (5.7) or Madu's (4.2).

And that's leaving out Harvin. Whose stats are even better.

Moody would be playing ahead of Madu, and could easily fill Brown's role, if he played at OU.

Murray is a whole 'nother animal. I'm sorry we won't get to see him play.

What I find interesting about Moody is he's never shown any of the frustration that he did at USC. He's really positive about being a Gator and feels he's getting a fair chance. I hope he has a breakout season next year.

If we do have a two-score lead, late in the game, I think Moody will see some playing time.

[MikeInNorman]

Should tell you all you need to know about Big 12 defenses. Do you think it's a coincidence that even Baylor's QB is having almost unprecedented type of success? I'm not saying that Baylor's passing well so Big 12 defense suck, I'm presenting it as just one more piece of evidence. It can't be a coincidence that ALL those QBs are doing so much better than average years and they just happen to be in the same conference. It's not like the SEC defenses, which regularly has ~6 in the top ~25 in both total and scoring defense.

Calling SicEmBaylor! Calling SicEmBaylor!

Please educate this Florida Aggy on the curious case of Robert Griffin, or "How a Superstar Quarterback Ended Up at Baylor". Don't leave out the good parts about Griffin being a world-class track athlete, etc.

Although on second thought, the two things I have learned this week from the Florida Aggy contingent are first, that WE HAVEN'T SEEN!!1!!!!!!! the speed hoarded and exclusively possessed by Florida, and second, there is probably a chart hanging outside Urban Meyer's office that PROVES Saint Tebow of the Heisman Snub is faster than Robert Griffin, or hell, Usain Bolt for that matter.

[Mark_in_Tulsa]

Should tell you all you need to know about Big 12 defenses. Do you think it's a coincidence that even Baylor's QB is having almost unprecedented type of success? I'm not saying that Baylor's passing well so Big 12 defense suck, I'm presenting it as just one more piece of evidence. It can't be a coincidence that ALL those QBs are doing so much better than average years and they just happen to be in the same conference. It's not like the SEC defenses, which regularly has ~6 in the top ~25 in both total and scoring defense.

Big12 defences keep their opponents 4.17 points below their avg.
Sec defences keep their opponents 4.87 points below their avg.

So yeah you have better defences by .7 points per game. Big whoop.

You don't want to even know how bad your offences do compared to Big12.

[Flsunman]

Big12 defences keep their opponents 4.17 points below their avg.
Sec defences keep their opponents 4.87 points below their avg.

So yeah you have better defences by .7 points per game. Big whoop.

You don't want to even know how bad your offences do compared to Big12.



It's just beautiful when bowl season shows the facts isn't it?