Stoops vs Bud and Barry

[Collier11]

So this will be Stoops 4th natl title game to coach in as head coach of OU, how many "title games" did The other two coach in. Obviously the systems are way diff...

During Buds time I believe they voted before the bowl game on Natl title correct, if so that might be a little harder to determine

Barry, I believe the champion was picked after the bowl game while he was coach?

If so, how many bowl games or games at the end of the season did each of these guys coach in with the National Title on the line?

[Soonersince57]

I don't think in all of Bud's years that the polls were before the bowls, but I'll have to defer on that one.

The actual games that would have meant a national championship for Barry were the 1976 Orange Bowl (won), the 1978 Orange Bowl (lost), 1985 Orange Bowl (lost), 1986 Orange Bowl (won), and 1988 Orange Bowl (lost). We beat Nebraska and OSU at year end in 1974 and won the national championship, but no bowl that year.

[The Maestro]

Bottom line, it is time for Bob to win another to keep pace with the first two Killer B's.

[Sooner04]

Bud had two undefeated teams that didn't win the national title: 1949 and 1954. Alabamuh would certainly claim those two. Bud won the national title in 1950, but lost the bowl game.

The claim of the '85 Orange Bowl is a little dicey. We might've won the title, or not. BYU was undefeated. We had a tie, which was complete robbery, and a loss at Kansas when Danny Bradley was hurt and Troy Aikman turned the ball over 506 times. We defeated #1 Nebraska and #3 OSU in the weeks leading up to the game against Washington, so who knows? It would've been up to the pollsters to get us over the hump.

We win the national title if we win either the '78 or '88 Orange Bowls, but we all know how those turned out.

[Soonersince57]

The claim of the '85 Orange Bowl is a little dicey. We might've won the title, or not. BYU was undefeated. We had a tie, which was complete robbery, and a loss at Kansas when Danny Bradley was hurt and Troy Aikman turned the ball over 506 times. We defeated #1 Nebraska and #3 OSU in the weeks leading up to the game against Washington, so who knows? It would've been up to the pollsters to get us over the hump.



Absolutely agree. In fact, I think it was a year that Barry was accused of politicking too much and the folks at BYU were not too happy. But didn't they beat a bad 6-6 Michigan team that year in a bowl game to go 13-0? My memory is fading.

[TheUnnamedSooner]

I think I remember Barry saying he played in 6 bowl games that would have given OU the NC if they'd won.

[Sooner04]

Barry congratulated BYU after the Holiday Bowl for doing something only five other teams in America had done that year: beat Michigan.

[85Sooner]

85 NATL TITLE. I believe all votes were for OU cept one. Barry voted for BYU but I could be wrong.

[soonervegas]

I remember distinctly what they did a poll prior to the 1985 Orange Bowl of AP voters....the question was if OU beat Washington by 14 or more points who would you vote as your National Champion. OU won in a landslide over BYU. Alas....we were the ones that ended up losing by close to 14.

[SbOrOiNaEnR]

Absolutely agree. In fact, I think it was a year that Barry was accused of politicking too much and the folks at BYU were not too happy. But didn't they beat a bad 6-6 Michigan team that year in a bowl game to go 13-0? My memory is fading.

That politicking is what got The King the Barry Switzer Sewage Treatment Plant named after him in Midvale, Utah.

[Octavian]

In his first decade, Barry was one game away from (probably) winning a National Title in:


'73: USC (7-7 tie in LA against the defending NC Trojans) - OU finished 10-0-1


'77: Arkansas (debacle in Miami and worst loss of his career) - OU finished 10-2


'78: Nebraska (Billy's fumble in Lincoln -- OU was #1 all year and would have been favored to beat anyone they met in the bowl) - OU finished 11-1


'79: Texas (season ended w/ Billy's last TD from J.C.'s pitch) -- OU finished 11-1 and #3.




While it's not like Bob will somehow be a failure if OU doesn't beat Florida...this is the answer:



Bottom line, it is time for Bob to win another to keep pace with the first two Killer B's.

[OklaUalum]

Irrespective. Your thread is Bob v. the other legends. Either way, Stoops has built a dynasty by any measuring stick and by any decade. He's up there with not only Bud and Barry, but also the Woody Hayes', Bear Bryant's and Parseghian's (sp?), of the college football ranks. To simply PLAY for 4 national championships with in this 10 year period is enough by ANY university's standards. Winning 3 conference championships in a row is going to take a long time to be matched. And I agree with 'Soonersince 57' that the barometer for the national championship was extremely different than today's.
The one thing that is holding Stoops back from being already being considered a legend is he only has one national championship and our failures in such visible bowl games.

[OU Adonis]

He is still in third. He needs a couple of NC's to match them IMO

[Crucifax Autumn]

Barry congratulated BYU after the Holiday Bowl for doing something only five other teams in America had done that year: beat Michigan.

Wasn't that the year he voted Fresno State I think #1 on the basis that "they're undefeated" and that strength of schedule apparently didn't matter to the other voters so why should it to him?

[MyT Oklahoma]

Wasn't that the year he voted Fresno State I think #1 on the basis that "they're undefeated" and that strength of schedule apparently didn't matter to the other voters so why should it to him?

Yep see page 204 of Bootlegger's Boy.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Yeah, that's where I remember the story from most though I also think perhaps at the time the national media and even the DOK had minor stories about it.

I think it's one of the funniest things ever.

[Collier11]

Thanks to all who have contributed

[SouthFortySooner]

Barry hung 50, Stoop's hangs 60. Jes Sayin. :cool:

[12]

Like it or not, the BCS has at least proven more "exact" in the science that is college football. I'm not sure there is a perfect formula or playoff out there, but our current system at least presents more arguable proof than that of "back in the day."

Dropping the human polls might be a step in the right direction. (and no... I don't care to get into an argument about it all. I'm sure there are many people out there who have much more expertise when discussing these matters.)

[Crucifax Autumn]

Does that mean, as I suspect it does, that Barry and Bud woulda won way more championships if the current system had been in place or as I fear less due to strength of schedule issues?

My opinion is that we are one championship away from having our 4th truly immortal coaching legend at OU. I'd argue conference championships under Stoops as already putting him there, but go to Sooner stats and look at all those conference championships from the Big 6, SWC, Big 7, and Big 8...

The only way Stoops can truly join them is to stick around at least 10 more years winning the CC at the same rate he is now or win at least one more bcs title.

That said, I think he's an awesome coach that in more fair and modern terms has reached the level of the other 3. And yeas, I said 3 even though the OP only mentioned 2 of the others.