Atheist billboard next to state Xmas display causes O'Falafel's head to explode

[SoonerFrog]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/390542_capitoldisplay05.html

Atheist billboard in Capitol stirs a storm
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

OLYMPIA -- An anti-religion billboard in the Washington state Capitol has started a firestorm on national television.

Fox News' Bill O'Reilly had an eight-minute segment on his show Tuesday night decrying the inclusion of the atheistic billboard along with a holiday tree and a Christian nativity scene. :cry:

Conservative TV personality O'Reilly urged viewers to call Gov. Chris Gregoire's office...

[LosAngelesSooner]

The Capitol has had a holiday tree, provided by the Association of Washington Business, for 19 years. In 2006, it was joined by a menorah sponsored by a Seattle Jewish group.

That prompted a lawmaker from Spokane to stage a protest at the Capitol, demanding the holiday tree be called a "Christmas tree." It also led a local real estate agent to sue the state to allow the nativity display depicting the birth of Jesus.

Gregoire, a Democrat, and Republican Attorney General Rob McKenna put out a joint statement Wednesday noting that the federal case led the state to create an inclusive policy:

"The U.S. Supreme Court has been consistent and clear that, under the Constitution's First Amendment, once government admits one religious display or viewpoint onto public property, it may not discriminate against the content of other displays, including the viewpoints of nonbelievers."Looks like they brought it on themselves.:pop:

[IBleedCrimson]

this is so mean spirited. These ppl would never do this to Ramadan. For some reason it's ok to attack Christians.

[OklahomaTuba]

I love how atheist's "beliefs" include ridiculing others that have different beliefs than they have.

Bigotry at its finest.

[OklahomaTuba]

this is so mean spirited. These ppl would never do this to Ramadan.
I wonder how that would work out for them???
;)

[olevetonahill]

this is so mean spirited. These ppl would never do this to Ramadan. For some reason it's ok to attack Christians.

Cause MOST Christians dont Go around Blowing the **** outa peeps that disagree with em .:D

[SoonerFrog]

Looks like they brought it on themselves.:pop:

Yep, they should have just kept all of them out.

[leavingthezoo]

I love how atheist's "beliefs" include ridiculing others that have different beliefs than they have.

Bigotry at its finest.

THIS is funny.

I agree but... don't think you slipped the irony past us for a moment. ;)

[SoonerInKCMO]

this is so mean spirited. These ppl would never do this to Ramadan. For some reason it's ok to attack Christians.

Do you even know when Ramadan is? Is anyone here that isn't a Muslim even aware that Ramadan is going on when it is? Can you go more than five minutes without hearing about Christmas during the two months prior to it?

Do you know where the closest Mosque is? Can you remember even seeing one recently? Can you drive even half a mile without coming across a Christian church?

Atheists in the U.S. only direct what you consider to be 'attacks' towards Christianity because it is THE dominant religion throughout the country.

[badger]

For those of you that can't read it off the picture, this is what the billboard (although the sign looks about 3' X 2' at the largest, so is it a billboard?) reads in full:


"At this season of the Winter Solstice may reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

I really don't think that this "billboard" will change anyone's minds about religion, but it sure is a Debbie Downer next to festive displays for other religions.

[soonerscuba]

Why are my fellow Pastafarians not being represented in this display? Probably because everybody bashes FSM.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I love how atheist's "beliefs" include ridiculing others that have different beliefs than they have.

Bigotry at its finest.
And I love how Christians want freedom of belief and speech for everyone who doesn't disagree with them. :rolleyes:

[soonerscuba]

Also, since this isn't a church (which I respect) but rather a group of entitled, thin-skinned whiners who lack any sort of bearing as to what "persecution" actually is, I hope their display burns to the ground and replaced with a nondescript "Happy Holidays" banner purchased at Target.

[LosAngelesSooner]

What's funny is that if a "Christian" hadn't SUED the state during the HOLIDAY season to OFFICIALLY change the name of the Holiday Tree to a "Christmas Tree," then the Atheists wouldn't have been allowed to get the billboard.

And what is it about the religious nutjobs on the far right wanting everything to be "official?" Official language, official religion, officially changing French Fries to Freedom Fries, officially saying Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays (and somehow being offended when someone wishes you a Happy Holidays)...*sigh*

I'm sure Jesus would be proud. So proud. :rolleyes:

[Hot Rod]

I think it's funny that without "Christmas", most of these people would still be working on Dec. 25th. Believe how you will, but Christmas is the main holiday celebrated during this time.

[mdklatt]

Believe how you will, but Christmas is the main holiday celebrated during this time.

You know that Christmas is fundamentally a pagan holiday, right?

[Okla-homey]

You know that Christmas is fundamentally a pagan holiday, right?


While I agree that many of the traditional accompaniments to the holy day, as well as the selection of the date of its celebration do indeed have pagan roots, I respectfully disagree that there is anything pagan about memorializing the birth of Jesus Christ.

Moreover, but for the Christian desire to celebrate and herald His birth, the pagan traditions grafted into Christ's Mass would have had no host on which to survive and flourish.

[SoonerFrog]

I love how Christians' "beliefs" include ridiculing others that have different beliefs than they have.

Bigotry at its finest.

Just as I suspected... IT DOES work just as well when you make the switch.

[shaun4411]

as an atheist, i feel this billboard is pretty offensive. i equate it to putting a similar sign next to a menorah; mac lovers putting a similar billboard next to a pc; ford lovers doing it to a chevy dealership; texas fans doing it next to ou's 8th national championship trophy; or anybody doing it next to one of those scientology nut job churches.

it isnt the fact that they did it per se (on state property no less), but its the intent of the action. if they were across the street doing it, fine. the intent was obviously to discredit and insult religion (christianity).

[JohnnyMack]

I happen to know that the local Tulsa chapters the Tulsa Athiests and the Tulsa FFRF group are working on an "Imagine No Religion" billboard for a prominent stretch of Tulsa highway.

[JohnnyMack]

While I agree that many of the traditional accompaniments to the holy day, as well as the selection of the date of its celebration do indeed have pagan roots, I respectfully disagree that there is anything pagan about memorializing the birth of Jesus Christ.

Naw, they just ripped the Jesus stuff off from Horus and Zoroaster.

[shaun4411]

I happen to know that the local Tulsa chapters the Tulsa Athiests and the Tulsa FFRF group are working on an "Imagine No Religion" billboard for a prominent stretch of Tulsa highway.

a group of christians should put billboards across the same highway stating simply "Imagine religion". or "jesus still loves you"

[Okla-homey]

I happen to know that the local Tulsa chapters the Tulsa Athiests and the Tulsa FFRF group are working on an "Imagine No Religion" billboard for a prominent stretch of Tulsa highway.

I'm not a big fan of religion myself. I do, however, stand in awe at the power, majesty and saving grace offered the world by God and his Son.

[TMcGee86]

this is so mean spirited. These ppl would never do this to Ramadan. For some reason it's ok to attack Christians.

Actually, if you read what he wrote, he pretty much attacks every religion.

Muslims included.

[Frozen Sooner]

Naw, they just ripped the Jesus stuff off from Horus and Zoroaster.

Equal time for Mithra, jerk.

[Ike]

See, and this is my problem with atheists...they feel the need to "celebrate" the holidays by crapping on everyone elses holidays.


They need some holidays of their own. Perhaps celebrating something that reflects the true ingenuity of mankind. Like how about a holiday celebrating the invention of Beer! It happened so long ago (and no, monks didn't do it...it was invented long before the time of Jesus) that nobody knows the exact date it happened on. So why not make that their "wintery" holiday. That way, instead of just crapping on everyone elses holidays, the atheists can just celebrate with everyone else, and get drunk in the process (which is what they really love to do anyway). So now instead of some lame *** poster in a holiday display, they can instead put a giant beer mug. Or maybe a giant St. Pauli Girl.




See. Problem solved. :D

[olevetonahill]

See, and this is my problem with atheists...they feel the need to "celebrate" the holidays by crapping on everyone elses holidays.


They need some holidays of their own. Perhaps celebrating something that reflects the true ingenuity of mankind. Like how about a holiday celebrating the invention of Beer! It happened so long ago (and no, monks didn't do it...it was invented long before the time of Jesus) that nobody knows the exact date it happened on. So why not make that their "wintery" holiday. That way, instead of just crapping on everyone elses holidays, the atheists can just celebrate with everyone else, and get drunk in the process (which is what they really love to do anyway). So now instead of some lame *** poster in a holiday display, they can instead put a giant beer mug. Or maybe a giant St. Pauli Girl.




See. Problem solved. :D

Saweet , I can Celebrate 2 Holy Days at the same Time
I knowed you was smart and all But Damn thats Genius :D

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Cause MOST Christians dont Go around Blowing the **** outa peeps that disagree with em .:D
At least not in the last couple hundred years;)

[olevetonahill]

At least not in the last couple hundred years;)

Tru Dat
But Mostly they Just burned em At the Stake :eek:

[SoonerInKCMO]

I could really get behind a holiday that centered around giant images of the St. Pauli Girl.

See what I did? "Get behind... St. Pauli Girl"? Get it?

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Tru Dat
But Mostly they Just burned em At the Stake :eek:
Well there were hangings and stonings and drownings and stabbings too, but in general yeah burning

[olevetonahill]

Well there were hangings and stonings and drownings and stabbings too, but in general yeah burning

MMMMMMM BBQ :pop:

[Turd_Ferguson]

Jesus loves me this I know....

[GottaHavePride]

See, and this is my problem with atheists...they feel the need to "celebrate" the holidays by crapping on everyone elses holidays.



I'm an agnostic. Which doesn't mean I think there's no God. It just means I think everyone is equally wrong.

And I want my damn presents on Christmas. It's tradition.

;)

[85Sooner]

And I love how Christians want freedom of belief and speech for everyone who doesn't disagree with them. :rolleyes:

Yeah, been meaning to ask you about this sport. you are so high on the gay "rights" issue. What is your take on the photographer in NM that refused to take pictures of the so called "GAY WEDDING" because it went against HIS beliefs and they sued him for discrimination and cost the poor guy 7k?

[85Sooner]

The problem is not that religion has become part of life that interferred with government. Its that the G*ddamn government has gotten in every orrifice of our lives including the ones that involve religion.

F*&k our gov and all who serve that selve serving bastion of corruption. Bush included.

lock and Load

Denny Crane

[Ike]

Saweet , I can Celebrate 2 Holy Days at the same Time
I knowed you was smart and all But Damn thats Genius :D

It's not my genius. It's long been known that 99% of the problems between people can simply be solved with more tiddies and beer. :D

[Pricetag]

Could we make the beer holiday earlier in the year? Definitely during shorts season, please.

[Fraggle145]

See, and this is my problem with atheists...they feel the need to "celebrate" the holidays by crapping on everyone elses holidays.


They need some holidays of their own. Perhaps celebrating something that reflects the true ingenuity of mankind. Like how about a holiday celebrating the invention of Beer! It happened so long ago (and no, monks didn't do it...it was invented long before the time of Jesus) that nobody knows the exact date it happened on. So why not make that their "wintery" holiday. That way, instead of just crapping on everyone elses holidays, the atheists can just celebrate with everyone else, and get drunk in the process (which is what they really love to do anyway). So now instead of some lame *** poster in a holiday display, they can instead put a giant beer mug. Or maybe a giant St. Pauli Girl.




See. Problem solved. :D

I'm an atheist... and I'm buying what Ike is selling.

I dont think anyone should crap on anyone's beliefs or holidays (or lack thereof). Hell I love Christmas because I love presents. :D

[LosAngelesSooner]

Yeah, been meaning to ask you about this sport. you are so high on the gay "rights" issue. What is your take on the photographer in NM that refused to take pictures of the so called "GAY WEDDING" because it went against HIS beliefs and they sued him for discrimination and cost the poor guy 7k?
I still haven't found any proof of this, btw. That's why I haven't addressed it.

And don't call me Sport, Pal.

[LosAngelesSooner]

F*&k our gov and all who serve that selve serving bastion of corruption. lock and Load
What do you have against Policemen and women, firemen and women and our military? :pop:

[bluedogok]

I'm an atheist... and I'm buying what Ike is selling.

I dont think anyone should crap on anyone's beliefs or holidays (or lack thereof). Hell I love Christmas because I love presents. :D
There is nothing wrong with atheism just there is nothing wrong with Christianity, it's the application of it that gets screwed up. I have known what I basically called "evangelical atheists" because they practiced and tried to inflict their "non-belief" with an evangelical fervor greater than that of a street corner preacher...of course they didn't see it that way just like some Bible thumpers see no wrong in what they do. I'm a Christian but I don't believe in inflicting your beliefs or non-beliefs on others. If someone is interested, they will seek the information they need.

[OUMallen]

Yeah, been meaning to ask you about this sport. you are so high on the gay "rights" issue. What is your take on the photographer in NM that refused to take pictures of the so called "GAY WEDDING" because it went against HIS beliefs and they sued him for discrimination and cost the poor guy 7k?

I'd say tell me the case citation, I'll try to find it on Westlaw, read it, and interpret what happened so you can understand. Until then, we don't know if this is even true.

For now, you sound like Mack Brown crying about rules you choose to ignore because the outcome seems "unfair" or something to you, regardless of your understanding or whether you embrace those rules. Leave the law to the lawyers.

[Ike]

There is nothing wrong with atheism just there is nothing wrong with Christianity, it's the application of it that gets screwed up. I have known what I basically called "evangelical atheists" because they practiced and tried to inflict their "non-belief" with an evangelical fervor greater than that of a street corner preacher...of course they didn't see it that way just like some Bible thumpers see no wrong in what they do. I'm a Christian but I don't believe in inflicting your beliefs or non-beliefs on others. If someone is interested, they will seek the information they need.

Regardless of your belief system, there are going to be those who feel the need to "spread the word", if you will. Some more forcefully than others. I think you'll find that there are more atheists that think as you do than there are annoying-atheist-aholes....just like there are more christians who believe that their religion is a private thing than there are street corner preachers.

Me personally, I could care less what I believe, much less what someone else believes. So why don't we all calm down and have a beer. :D

[TMcGee86]

And don't call me Sport, Pal.

Heh. This reminds me of that South Park episode where Canada goes bankrupt and the two Canadian dudes are arguing.

"Don't call me 'guy' buddy."

"Don't call me 'buddy' friend."

"Don't call me 'friend', guy."


:P

[OUMallen]

Knock it off, Chief.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Heh. This reminds me of that South Park episode where Canada goes bankrupt and the two Canadian dudes are arguing.

"Don't call me 'guy' buddy."

"Don't call me 'buddy' friend."

"Don't call me 'friend', guy."


:PI'm glad you caught my reference....BRO.

[Boarder]

I'd say tell me the case citation, I'll try to find it on Westlaw, read it, and interpret what happened so you can understand. Until then, we don't know if this is even true.

For now, you sound like Mack Brown crying about rules you choose to ignore because the outcome seems "unfair" or something to you, regardless of your understanding or whether you embrace those rules. Leave the law to the lawyers.
http://volokh.com/files/willockopinion.pdf

If it were an atheist photographer being punished for refusing to photograph a baptism I can guarantee you, without a doubt, I'd be just as appalled.

[85Sooner]

I still haven't found any proof of this, btw. That's why I haven't addressed it.

And don't call me Sport, Pal.

Vanessa Willock vs Elane Photography [HRD# 06-12-20-0685]


ok? chum ;)

[Boarder]

This was the worst possible thing that a gay couple could do. It basically reinforces the main fear that everyone anti-gay has that they will be forced to accept the lifestyle that they are completely against.

Mandatory Atheism For Everyone!





(yes, I'm being sarcastic on that last one...but still, when one slippery slope gets made others are soon to follow.)

[SoonerJack]

This thread makes me sad.

Romans 14:11

^But THAT thread makes me happy.

[proud gonzo]

huh. Didn't know a little sign could make people so mad.

A chick at Michael's told me "Merry Christmas" today. Guess I should go slash her tires or call the newspaper or something.

[NYC Poke]

http://volokh.com/files/willockopinion.pdf

If it were an atheist photographer being punished for refusing to photograph a baptism I can guarantee you, without a doubt, I'd be just as appalled.

It looks like NM has a statute prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, which the photographer clearly did. The statute is cited in paragraphs 4-6 of the Conclusions of Law section. The portion cited later in paragraph 16 states that it is unlawfully discriminatory for "any person in a public accomodation to make a distinction, directly or indirectly, in offering or refusing to offer its services . . . to any person because of . . . sexual orientation." Also, just to be clear, the plaintiff did not seek monetary damages, only attorney's fees, which constituted the $7,000. Whether you agree with the result or not, it seems pretty clear that the New Mexico Human Rights Commission was just applying the law.

[Frozen Sooner]

It looks like NM has a statute prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, which the photographer clearly did. The statute is cited in paragraphs 4-6 of the Conclusions of Law section. The portion cited later in paragraph 16 states that it is unlawfully discriminatory for "any person in a public accomodation to make a distinction, directly or indirectly, in offering or refusing to offer its services . . . to any person because of . . . sexual orientation." Also, just to be clear, the plaintiff did not seek monetary damages, only attorney's fees, which constituted the $7,000. Whether you agree with the result or not, it seems pretty clear that the New Mexico Human Rights Commission was just applying the law.

Everyone wants to yell "states' rights" until they get to a state they don't agree with. :D

[Boarder]

It looks like NM has a statute prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, which the photographer clearly did. The statute is cited in paragraphs 4-6 of the Conclusions of Law section. The portion cited later in paragraph 16 states that it is unlawfully discriminatory for "any person in a public accomodation to make a distinction, directly or indirectly, in offering or refusing to offer its services . . . to any person because of . . . sexual orientation." Also, just to be clear, the plaintiff did not seek monetary damages, only attorney's fees, which constituted the $7,000. Whether you agree with the result or not, it seems pretty clear that the New Mexico Human Rights Commission was just applying the law.
I'm not appalled at the ruling itself, I'm appalled at the infringement on religious freedom.

And Froz, what does that have to do with anything?

[Fraggle145]

Regardless of your belief system, there are going to be those who feel the need to "spread the word", if you will. Some more forcefully than others. I think you'll find that there are more atheists that think as you do than there are annoying-atheist-aholes....just like there are more christians who believe that their religion is a private thing than there are street corner preachers.

Me personally, I could care less what I believe, much less what someone else believes. So why don't we all calm down and have a beer. :D

Mmmm... Beer.

[NYC Poke]

I'm not appalled at the ruling itself, I'm appalled at the infringement on religious freedom.

I guess I just don't see it that way. I don't want Muslim taxi drivers deciding that it's against their religious beliefs to transport passengers carrying alcohol, or fundamentalist pharmacists deciding which prescriptions they will or will not fill.

Having said that, I think it was a petty lawsuit. I would've just hired another photographer. If I was a New Mexico lesbian having a committment ceremony. Which I am not.

[Boarder]

Yeah, but if you were Muslim would you want to be forced to carry people with alcohol? Or if you were a Jewish person would you want someone coming into your business carrying a veal sandwich and a glass of milk? Look at it from their perspective.

The point that I'm trying to make is that a main opposing point people make when wanting to pass laws against gay marriage is that it will lead to churches being forced to perform same-sex marriage or get sued. It could be passed off as a reductio ad absurdum fallacy until now. Now, it will be fuel to the fire and make the laws even more likely to pass. Exactly what same-sex marriage proponents do not want.

[Frozen Sooner]

And Froz, what does that have to do with anything?

What, that it's potentially a state's rights issue?


The anti-gay-marriage crowd is very big on allowing states to make their own laws regarding who can and can't be married and what sort of behavior is or isn't discriminatory.

In this particular case, the State of New Mexico has decided that it is discriminatory to refuse service from a public business based on a customer's sexual orientation.

Now I'm not particularly comfortable with the specific application of this law in this case-at this point in history I think there's a market-based solution, just as at this particular point in history there'd be a market-based solution for a photographer who felt that miscenegation violated his relgious beliefs.

[mdklatt]

The point that I'm trying to make is that a main opposing point people make when wanting to pass laws against gay marriage is that it will lead to churches being forced to perform same-sex marriage or get sued.

This is why the government has no business recognizing anybody's marriage. Civil partnerships should be completely separate from any church designation. The government doesn't care if you were baptized by a priest, why should it care if you were married by one?

[Boarder]

I'm fine with that.

[mdklatt]

I'm not appalled at the ruling itself, I'm appalled at the infringement on religious freedom.


You don't have a right to "freedom of religious expression while being a wedding photographer". If you don't like the requirements of the job, don't do that job. It's no different than Muslims refusing to handle pork even though they work at a butcher shop.

[Okla-homey]

It looks like NM has a statute prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, which the photographer clearly did. The statute is cited in paragraphs 4-6 of the Conclusions of Law section. The portion cited later in paragraph 16 states that it is unlawfully discriminatory for "any person in a public accomodation to make a distinction, directly or indirectly, in offering or refusing to offer its services . . . to any person because of . . . sexual orientation." Also, just to be clear, the plaintiff did not seek monetary damages, only attorney's fees, which constituted the $7,000. Whether you agree with the result or not, it seems pretty clear that the New Mexico Human Rights Commission was just applying the law.

While I agree with you here, its also clear, to me at least, these broads ambushed this photographer. Did you read the paragraphs in which the second woman contacted her and was silent on the homo part in order to make her case?

These two had an agenda, and that's precisely what bugs a lot of folks who are content to live and let live, but don't want to be forced to recognize the homosexual lifestyle as the equivalent of heterosexuality. The simple fact is, an awful lot of people sincerely beleive homosexuality is abhorrent and sinful. Legislation can't turn that around on a dime.

[NYC Poke]

Yeah, but if you were Muslim would you want to be forced to carry people with alcohol? Or if you were a Jewish person would you want someone coming into your business carrying a veal sandwich and a glass of milk? Look at it from their perspective.

Those are good points and I'm sympathetic to them. I'm just not sure how we could function as a heterogeneous population if we start making all kinds of religious carveouts. Nobody's suing the Jewish deli because they're not getting a BLT there. This is more akin to someone being refused service at the deli because they're uncircumcised (how this would come to light is beyond the scope of the hypo :D ).


The point that I'm trying to make is that a main opposing point people make when wanting to pass laws against gay marriage is that it will lead to churches being forced to perform same-sex marriage or get sued. It could be passed off as a reductio ad absurdum fallacy until now. Now, it will be fuel to the fire and make the laws even more likely to pass. Exactly what same-sex marriage proponents do not want.

They should definitely choose their battles more wisely.

[NYC Poke]

It's been fun but I have a "Holiday" part to attend at Tavern on the Green. Merry Christmas, everybody!

[85Sooner]

This is why the government has no business recognizing anybody's marriage. Civil partnerships should be completely separate from any church designation. The government doesn't care if you were baptized by a priest, why should it care if you were married by one?

DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sooneron]

as an atheist, i feel this billboard is pretty offensive. i equate it to putting a similar sign next to a menorah; mac lovers putting a similar billboard next to a pc; ford lovers doing it to a chevy dealership; texas fans doing it next to ou's 8th national championship trophy; or anybody doing it next to one of those scientology nut job churches.

it isnt the fact that they did it per se (on state property no less), but its the intent of the action. if they were across the street doing it, fine. the intent was obviously to discredit and insult religion (christianity).

I agree with this. Not that I am a full fledged atheist, but an aknowledged disliker of organized religion. If someone else wants to worship, that's their perogative, not mine.

[Whet]

Oh my:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420ap_wa_capitol_holiday_displays.html

Was it the Grinch? Atheists' holiday sign stolen

By CURT WOODWARD
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER
OLYMPIA, Wash. -- An anti-religion placard posted alongside Christmas displays drew a thief, a preacher, a part-time elf and a security detail to the state Capitol on Friday, as a weeklong uproar over religious speech hit a bizarre peak.
It all started Monday, when the Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation unveiled a winter solstice sign in the grand marble hallways around the Capitol Rotunda.
The sign's atheistic message - reading in part that "religion is but myth and superstition" - drew top billing on conservative commentator Bill O'Reilly's TV show.
Several days of angry messages to Democratic Gov. Chris Gregoire followed, and on Friday morning, someone removed the atheists' sign and apparently hustled it out of the Capitol.
A radio station in Seattle, about 60 miles north, soon reported that an unidentified man had dropped off the pilfered placard, and the Washington State Patrol dispatched someone to pick it up.
Meanwhile, people flocked to the Capitol to check out the crime scene, set up their own protest signs and speak to a bank of TV news cameras jamming the hallway.
Among the crowd was James Pritchard of Seattle, who wore a pointy green hat and passed out candy-striped business cards proclaiming him "J. Elfus, Special Assistant to the Claus."

[LosAngelesSooner]

I'm not appalled at the ruling itself, I'm appalled at the infringement on religious freedom.

And Froz, what does that have to do with anything?
Where does it say, in the Bible, that it's a sin to take photographs of Gay people?


Yeah, but if you were Muslim would you want to be forced to carry people with alcohol? Or if you were a Jewish person would you want someone coming into your business carrying a veal sandwich and a glass of milk? Look at it from their perspective.Why would Jewish people have a problem with beef products? ;)

[SoonerFrog]

Oh my:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420ap_wa_capitol_holiday_displays.html

But of course, Christians would never do such a thing.

:rolleyes:

It seems to me that some people are all for permitting religious displays on public grounds...until OTHER people put up religious displays on public grounds.

[Okla-homey]

Where does it say, in the Bible, that it's a sin to take photographs of Gay people?



I think its pretty clear to a lot of beleivers that it's not cricket to mock the divine order of things. I don't think the vast majority of folks who believe the passage below represents divinely inspired truth favor violence or punishment for those in the homosexual lifestyle. I do think the homosexual community needs to understand where a lot of people who aren't "accepting" of their choice are coming from.

Romans 1:26-27 - For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

[OUMallen]

Having said that, I think it was a petty lawsuit. I would've just hired another photographer.


I agree. Probably taken through litigation as a test case.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I think its pretty clear to a lot of believers (sp) that it's not cricket to mock the divine order of things.Statements like this illustrate an extremely weak ability to grasp the realities of the world by clinging to what a person "wants so desperately" to believe in. "Divine order of things," indeed...:rolleyes:

[Boarder]

Where does it say, in the Bible, that it's a sin to take photographs of Gay people?

Why would Jewish people have a problem with beef products? ;)

1. Is it required for it to be in the Bible for the photographer to believe that way? Or does it just need to be a part of her religious doctrine?

2. Veal/Milk not kosher. What, you not learn that in that fancy Callyfornia learnin' place? :D

[Okla-homey]

Statements like this illustrate an extremely weak ability to grasp the realities of the world by clinging to what a person "wants so desperately" to believe in. "Divine order of things," indeed...:rolleyes:

Divine order of things, a/k/a natural order. Don't overthink it man. The simple fact is, there are a set of ancient natural laws that are an integral part of western human culture. Most of them are incorporated in our Constitution and federal and state statutes. Until relatively recently, homosexual acts were still a crime in most states. That changed in the US in the wake of Lawrence v. Texas in 2003.

However, in much of the world, i.e the fourth that is Islamic, commitment of homosexual acts can be, and sometimes are, punishable by death.

The recent passage of Prop. 8 in a pretty liberal state like California proves, to me at least, people who don't approve of homosexuality are still pretty prevalent in American culture. We are distinguishable from certain cultures however, by the fact we are tolerant of homosexuality. And that is a good thing.

[pergdaddy]

Holy jeebus, Batman. Lots of differing viewpoints in this thread. Lots of interesting viewpoints from each aspect of the issue. Good learning, I say.

Problem is, as a Christian, I have my beliefs and I have my faith. I went to a Jesuit college (although I'm not Cathlolic) and I feel I learned a lot about the bible and how to view life, although there are certain aspects that I don't agree with. I'm more than happy to discuss my viewpoints and my faith and beliefs. But I never FORCE it on anybody. Just because I believe it doesn't mean everyone else does. And that's OK with me.

I know what Islam is, Judaism. They believe in what they believe in and I'm fine with that. If you are an atheist, that is your right to believe in what you believe in. All I've ever thought is that if you come to that decision based on your own free will and thinking, then nobody can fault you for your own rationalization and thought process. What I don't like are people who tote the company line and spew their beliefs onto those who don't feel the same way.

I don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle and I do get uncomfortable when I see PDA's between gay people. Uncomfortable is what I said, not hate filled. If you are gay, that is you. That's the way you feel and the way you want to live and love. I believe the bible tells us not to judge, so I won't. Gay people are people too and they deserve their rights. The government has no business getting involved in marriage and what is constitued by it.

I guess, while I disagree wholeheartedly with atheism, that if all the religions were to have displays by the Capitol, then it's hard to not allow an atheist display. HOwever, if that would have been say a Catholic church display on their church grounds and an atheism group wanted to put something by their property, then that is something completely different.

[pergdaddy]

That last paragraph goes for all religions and displays, not just atheism. I was just using that as an example. I didn't mean anything by it.

[homerSimpsonsBrain]

At least not in the last couple hundred years;)

But you know....












NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!