question for horns

[Position Limit]

sorry if the question i'm about to ask has been posted already. there have been so many discussions about this weeks game that i cant keep up.

anyway, here goes. if oklahoma wins saturday, do texas fans think it's ok that they get to go to a bcs game and tech gets sent to the cotton bowl? i mean with the horn argument of same records and head to head?

[Aries]

Yes, the ones I've heard think that would be fine because Texas is ranked higher in the BCS polls than Tech.

Oh, wait....

[sooner518]

Yes, the ones I've heard think that would be fine because Texas is ranked higher in the BCS polls than Tech.

Oh, wait....

I think you just blew my mind!

[PDXsooner]

dead horses around the world are somehow still able to wince when this question gets asked.

with that being said, it's a hell of a question -- and one that horn fans WILL NOT acknowledge.

[Vic n Tulsa]

sorry if the question i'm about to ask has been posted already. there have been so many discussions about this weeks game that i cant keep up.

anyway, here goes. if oklahoma wins saturday, do texas fans think it's ok that they get to go to a bcs game and tech gets sent to the cotton bowl? i mean with the horn argument of same records and head to head?

Why don't you go ask the poll voters and computer geeks who thought the mighty Tech Raiders were good enough to stay in the top 3 positions. They knocked their asses down and out of the NC discussion. Are you too dumb to see that?? That's why everybody is talking head to head between the powers of the conference. Nobody takes Tech seriously except sooner fans. Geez!

[Hot Rod]

Nobody takes Tech seriously except sooner fans. Geez!

Maybe Texas should've. :rolleyes:

[Paperclip]

Maybe Texas should've. :rolleyes:

Wow, Vic left a hanging slider over the plate there. :)

[Collier11]

To Lid and the other horns, if OU goes out and wins the national title, will that make this whole situation worse for you or will it justify OU somewhat. I know very few ut fans will ever give it up to OU but I wondered since most ut fans on here are relatively decent ;)

[PDXsooner]

Why don't you go ask the poll voters and computer geeks who thought the mighty Tech Raiders were good enough to stay in the top 3 positions. They knocked their asses down and out of the NC discussion. Are you too dumb to see that?? That's why everybody is talking head to head between the powers of the conference. Nobody takes Tech seriously except sooner fans. Geez!

If Mizzou beats OU, will you be outraged and insist that Texas Tech to go to the title game because of 39-33? Or will you defer to the BCS rankings and happily accept the invite?

[Vic n Tulsa]

To Lid and the other horns, if OU goes out and wins the national title, will that make this whole situation worse for you or will it justify OU somewhat. I know very few ut fans will ever give it up to OU but I wondered since most ut fans on here are relatively decent ;)

Nah, we'll just enjoy the bashing of UO again and again and again....and again

You think ESPN and the rest of the sports media hates you now.

Florida or Alabama. Can you imagine your defense or lack thereof against them....You thought USC 55-19 LSU 21-14 Boise State 42-35 and West Viginia 41 - 28 scores were bad!

[sooner59]

Nah, we'll just enjoy the bashing of UO again and again and again....and again

You think ESPN and the rest of the sports media hates you now.

Florida or Alabama. Can you imagine your defense or lack thereof against them....You thought USC 55-19 LSU 21-14 Boise State 42-35 and West Viginia 41 - 28 scores were bad!

I don't think that LSU 21-14 was a bad score defensively. That was a low scoring game that almost went to OT. Just missed a wide open Kejuan Jones in the endzone.

[Collier11]

Since that didnt answer the question, how good is it gonna feel when we win the MNC

[Collier11]

Nah, we'll just enjoy the bashing of UO again and again and again....and again

You think ESPN and the rest of the sports media hates you now.

Florida or Alabama. Can you imagine your defense or lack thereof against them....You thought USC 55-19 LSU 21-14 Boise State 42-35 and West Viginia 41 - 28 scores were bad!

When I saw this post I thought about doing some research but decided it was easier just to laugh that ut fans are now dogging us that we will get beat in the mnc game, atleast we didnt blow a shot at the conf title by losing to kst and a&m two straight yrs...talk about choking. Atleast we are losing to good teams

[picasso]

Nah, we'll just enjoy the bashing of UO again and again and again....and again

You think ESPN and the rest of the sports media hates you now.

Florida or Alabama. Can you imagine your defense or lack thereof against them....You thought USC 55-19 LSU 21-14 Boise State 42-35 and West Viginia 41 - 28 scores were bad!

this is brilliant logic. What is OU supposed to do, give up the title? We did all we could to be here at the end, Texas didn't. See 2001.

Hate us for winning????

ok.

[OUMallen]

Nah, we'll just enjoy the bashing of UO again and again and again....and again

You think ESPN and the rest of the sports media hates you now.

Florida or Alabama. Can you imagine your defense or lack thereof against them....You thought USC 55-19 LSU 21-14 Boise State 42-35 and West Viginia 41 - 28 scores were bad!

We fear not Bama's offense. OU/UF might be a GREAT game.

Do you really think that Bama/UF's offenses are >>> than Texas, OSU and Tech? Seriously?

[TopDawg]

Nah, we'll just enjoy the bashing of UO again and again and again....and again

They're after Oregon now?

[JLMSOONER]

I think texas got screwed and I think Tech got screwed. If texas would have went to KC I would have thought we got screwed and Tech got screwed. A 3 way tie sucks, but it happened and we got in when the process was followed that was setforth at the beginning of the season. So, with that said, I pity the day when all of the whining and whoa is me stops from texas. The silence will be terrible and we will have nothing more to look forward to until next year.

ps. Why isn't Tech complaining?

[OUMallen]

Why don't you go ask the poll voters and computer geeks who thought the mighty Tech Raiders were good enough to stay in the top 3 positions. They knocked their asses down and out of the NC discussion. Are you too dumb to see that?? That's why everybody is talking head to head between the powers of the conference. Nobody takes Tech seriously except sooner fans. Geez!

Why not? Because their name isn't OU, Texas, USC, or Bama?

Oh, you mean OBJECTIVELY. Ok, let's check. They lost an away game to a ranked team. They played a WEAK non-conference schedule.... They struggled in a home game against a team they should have beaten easily....wait, are we talking about Tech or Texas? Oh, we're not supposed to use these measuring sticks with Texas, right?

You're a buffoon.

[IBleedCrimson]

Of course they'll throw out head to head. It doesn't help them against tech so therefor it's irrelevant. Just like tech beating them was irrelevant to ccg discussion so goes this in fiesta discussion. But of course you'll never hear the talking heads of ESPN say any of this

[AlbqSooner]

They're after Oregon now?

I was thinking Ohio. Fits their out of conference schedule much better.

[David Earl]

Nah, we'll just enjoy the bashing of UO again and again and again....and again


You better take your bashing and smack talk elsewhere because you are close to a good ole fashioned shoe-whipping.

[PDXsooner]

DE - Get him outta here!!!

[David Earl]

Looks like Froze took him out.

[TexasLidig8r]

sorry if the question i'm about to ask has been posted already. there have been so many discussions about this weeks game that i cant keep up.

anyway, here goes. if oklahoma wins saturday, do texas fans think it's ok that they get to go to a bcs game and tech gets sent to the cotton bowl? i mean with the horn argument of same records and head to head?

Yes.

I believe you are misconstruing the "sane arguments" being made by the more lucid Texas fans.

In determining conference and national championships, and between 2 teams certainly look at head to head first and foremost when there is a tie between those 2 teams.

When you have 3 teams involved, the more subjective, "body of work" is considered.... strength of schedule, strength of defenses, offenses, special teams, any bad losses or big wins.

I believe Tech is eliminated from the equation because of scheduling TWO subdivision teams, a close win in overtime against Nebraska, a very close season ending win at home against Baylor and being crushed by you. I believe these were all factors that were considered by the BCS system when it dropped Tech to 7th and out of national championship consideration.

After the national championship game is set, the BCS bowls have a bit of subjectivity as to who they will take. If Texas stays, as expected in the top 4, they get an automatic BCS bid.

Suppose for the sake of argument, Texas was ranked 5th in the BCS and Tech was ranked 7th, the BCS bowls will look at the factors set forth above, but more importantly, will look at which team/school will be a bigger draw.. who will draw more television viewers, who will bring more fans, which fan base will spend more money for the local economy. Tech cannot compare to Texas on those factors.

As for, in the event OU wins out and wins the national championship, I will certainly congratulate you but also believe that the wrong team played and won the MNC. Yes. I know, I know.. the system is what it is and I'm not going to whine about it.

[Collier11]

you cant eliminate tech without eliminating yourself because Tech beat you

[BoonesFarmSooner]

This is BOGUS...

Boones starts the same thread a few days ago and only gets one reply (Shout out to PDXSooner)

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125874

Blatant post favoratism or something else that I'm not smart enough to comprehend...

Boones post was first, thus wins the head-to-head regardless of the number and quality of posts in this one.

[TexasLidig8r]

you cant eliminate tech without eliminating yourself because Tech beat you

Which would also eliminate you.

[David Earl]

Which would also eliminate you.

Which is why the whole head-to-head is a circular argument that makes as muchy progress as a dog chasing its tail.

In situations like these we have to defer to the objective computers, not subjective humans. Or, we could just always give the nod to my favorite team. That's a good idea.

[Collier11]

Which would also eliminate you.

Thank You! You just admitted that head to head cant be considered :texan:

[BoulderSooner79]

If OU loses to MU next week UT probably goes to the MNC game unless Petey can pull a miracle. The title game is the *BCS* title game and all that matters is BCS ranking. The BCS doesn't care about conferences or head to head. Which is exactly why OU is going to KC this week - the big12 pulled the BCS ranking into the conference determination. The BCS could easily hurt UT one week and then help them the next and I'm sure the horn fans wouldn't complain if that happened.

[Hot Rod]

As for, in the event OU wins out and wins the national championship, I will certainly congratulate you but also believe that the wrong team played and won the MNC. Yes. I know, I know.. the system is what it is and I'm not going to whine about it.

So, if OSU beat OU and Tech perhaps wins the Big XII Title and the National Championship, you'd believe the same?

[Position Limit]

Yes.

I believe you are misconstruing the "sane arguments" being made by the more lucid Texas fans.

In determining conference and national championships, and between 2 teams certainly look at head to head first and foremost when there is a tie between those 2 teams.

When you have 3 teams involved, the more subjective, "body of work" is considered.... strength of schedule, strength of defenses, offenses, special teams, any bad losses or big wins.

I believe Tech is eliminated from the equation because of scheduling TWO subdivision teams, a close win in overtime against Nebraska, a very close season ending win at home against Baylor and being crushed by you. I believe these were all factors that were considered by the BCS system when it dropped Tech to 7th and out of national championship consideration.

After the national championship game is set, the BCS bowls have a bit of subjectivity as to who they will take. If Texas stays, as expected in the top 4, they get an automatic BCS bid.

Suppose for the sake of argument, Texas was ranked 5th in the BCS and Tech was ranked 7th, the BCS bowls will look at the factors set forth above, but more importantly, will look at which team/school will be a bigger draw.. who will draw more television viewers, who will bring more fans, which fan base will spend more money for the local economy. Tech cannot compare to Texas on those factors.

As for, in the event OU wins out and wins the national championship, I will certainly congratulate you but also believe that the wrong team played and won the MNC. Yes. I know, I know.. the system is what it is and I'm not going to whine about it.

reasonable reply. but flawed. if one of the determning factors is total body of work, then how does oklahoma compare to texas? who did texas schedule for non confrence competition? don't give us that arkansas bs. also, i'm aware of the bcs bowl selection process as it applies to the rankings. but my original question was directed more toward the texas argument that head to head matters most. if that's the case, rankings aside, tech and texas have the same record and tech put it to texas. so by horn gospel, texas should oblige tech for a bcs game. and please spare me the texas fans are all millionaires that will send a local economy to the moon if they go to the game. tech is 11-1. the best season they will ever have. they will pack whatever stadium will have them. they will buy the same budwieser and refrigerator magnets that texas fans will.

[humblesooner]

[QUOTE=TexasLidig8r;2513244
As for, in the event OU wins out and wins the national championship, I will certainly congratulate you but also believe that the wrong team played and won the MNC. Yes. I know, I know.. the system is what it is and I'm not going to whine about it.[/QUOTE]

Umm, I think you just did.

[BoonesFarmSooner]

Which would also eliminate you.



HOOK






LINE








SINKER






:pop:

[TopDawg]

I think it's foolish for Texas to say, essentially, "Texas Tech's body of work isn't as impressive as OU's, so let's eliminate them from the discussion and now that we've eliminated them from the discussion, let's dismiss body of work and look at head to head."

But, however foolish that may be, it's actually the more popular way of "solving" a 3-way tie in college football. Find a way to eliminate one team and then go with head-to-head among the remaining two.

So I don't know which makes more sense. I think we'd all agree that head-to-head is the best way to solve a tie (it's the perfectly acceptable way that we solve a tie in a two-team tie), but in a situation where you CAN'T use head-to-head, does it make more sense to eliminate it all together (and depend entirely on other factors to break the tie between the three teams) or find a way to eliminate one team so that you CAN use head-to-head between the remaining 2? I think both ways have merit, but I'm not sure that point differential or some other objective measure used on all 3 teams wouldn't be better still.

In other words, if head-to-head is the best way to break a tie, why not try to get to a point where we can break the tie using head-to-head (by using a different method to eliminate the third team)? I can see the rationale there. But at the same time, if "body of work" is a good enough measure to eliminate a team from discussion when head-to-head can't, then why isn't it a good enough measure to pick the winner when head-to-head can't? Instead of using body of work to make a 3-way tie a 2-way tie, why not use body of work to declare the winner of the 3-way tie? I can see the rationale there too.

Having said all of that, I do think it's a little odd that non-conference play can have an impact on the conference champion. But I also think it's a little odd that a team that went 3-0 against Colorado, Iowa State and Kansas State this year would get the same credit as a team that went 3-0 against Missouri, Kansas and Nebraska...so I guess I just have to accept that sometimes oddities are part of the picture.

[TexasLidig8r]

I think it's foolish for Texas to say, essentially, "Texas Tech's body of work isn't as impressive as OU's, so let's eliminate them from the discussion and now that we've eliminated them from the discussion, let's dismiss body of work and look at head to head."

.

No.

What is being said by some (those that can get past the IT'S ALL ABOUT HEAD TO HEAD!!) is in the case of a three way tie, look at the body of work and rankings to eliminate one of the teams.

Very few people would argue that Tech's season is comparable to Texas' season and OU's season. They are ranked last of the 3, their season as a whole is not as strong and as such, should be eliminated.

Of the two remaining teams, assuming the records are identical, head to head should be given strong emphasis but, certainly consider other factors as well. If Texas had barely squeezed past Baylor, and KU and aggy and the rest of its opponents and OU had billy-stomped Baylor and KU and aggy, then the head to head result would be diminished somewhat. Take rankings into account, take BCS standings into account, but place an emphasis on the results obtained on the field.

[Collier11]

You cannot look at TT's body of work and eliminate them because even if they did play a weaker schedule, they still beat you!!! Why do you guys keep avoiding that.

If you ARE going to look at body of work, well OU had a better body of work. Either way, you lose

[Knippz]

No.

What is being said by some (those that can get past the IT'S ALL ABOUT HEAD TO HEAD!!) is in the case of a three way tie, look at the body of work and rankings to eliminate one of the teams.

Very few people would argue that Tech's season is comparable to Texas' season and OU's season. They are ranked last of the 3, their season as a whole is not as strong and as such, should be eliminated.

Of the two remaining teams, assuming the records are identical, head to head should be given strong emphasis but, certainly consider other factors as well. If Texas had barely squeezed past Baylor, and KU and aggy and the rest of its opponents and OU had billy-stomped Baylor and KU and aggy, then the head to head result would be diminished somewhat. Take rankings into account, take BCS standings into account, but place an emphasis on the results obtained on the field.

Lid, it is now Wednesday, 3:33 PM. Your team still isn't in. It's only been 3 days and I want to kill myself before reading more about this. Please, let's talk about something else.

So how'd that turkey sex go?

[IB4OU2]

No.

What is being said by some (those that can get past the IT'S ALL ABOUT HEAD TO HEAD!!) is in the case of a three way tie, look at the body of work and rankings to eliminate one of the teams.

Very few people would argue that Tech's season is comparable to Texas' season and OU's season. They are ranked last of the 3, their season as a whole is not as strong and as such, should be eliminated.

Of the two remaining teams, assuming the records are identical, head to head should be given strong emphasis but, certainly consider other factors as well. If Texas had barely squeezed past Baylor, and KU and aggy and the rest of its opponents and OU had billy-stomped Baylor and KU and aggy, then the head to head result would be diminished somewhat. Take rankings into account, take BCS standings into account, but place an emphasis on the results obtained on the field.

Lid, it would be ALOT easier for us to understand you without the whiney voice, sniffles and the occasional hiccup.

[shaun4411]

No.

What is being said by some (those that can get past the IT'S ALL ABOUT HEAD TO HEAD!!) is in the case of a three way tie, look at the body of work and rankings to eliminate one of the teams.

Very few people would argue that Tech's season is comparable to Texas' season and OU's season. They are ranked last of the 3, their season as a whole is not as strong and as such, should be eliminated.

Of the two remaining teams, assuming the records are identical, head to head should be given strong emphasis but, certainly consider other factors as well. If Texas had barely squeezed past Baylor, and KU and aggy and the rest of its opponents and OU had billy-stomped Baylor and KU and aggy, then the head to head result would be diminished somewhat. Take rankings into account, take BCS standings into account, but place an emphasis on the results obtained on the field.


we keep talking about who beat who with common opponents. consider this: ou/tx#1, tech #3, osu #4 in the big12 right? thats pretty fair.

texas beat ou, who beat tech, who beat texas. cant determine ANYTHING from using any of those three, its a circle. fine. compare performance of the 3 teams against other teams. against #3 and #4, ou vastly outperformed texas. ( i guess the game against #4 counts since osu isnt involved in the 3 way tie).

that being said, both texas tech and ou did one thing that texas couldnt- put the beatdown on the next best team in the conference. come next saturday, ou will have put the beat down on the #5 team as well.

texas' resume is NO BETTER than ou's whose is no better than tech since they all lost to each other. when you cant compare that criterion, the big 12 tiebreaker rules leave it up to the bcs. so why are you complaining? becuase it didnt fall to your favor? where is all the media attention for poor tech who beat texas? they got no love. texas fans sure didnt mind that 2004 excape texas had over california for the rose.

[Knippz]

No, but really, can we please end this argument?

It's over. Done. We advance. Texass doesn't. End of argument.

Arguing about it every day will make no difference. No argument Texass fans pose can do anything about it. So if they whine, let them. Meanwhile, we'll quietly work on number 8.

[TexasLidig8r]

So how'd that turkey sex go?

Pretty flippin good actually! :D

[TopDawg]

No.

What is being said by some (those that can get past the IT'S ALL ABOUT HEAD TO HEAD!!)

Well I'm not talking to those people. They're in the vast minority...or, at least, they're mostly in hiding.

If people look at the entire body of work and think that Texas should be ranked ahead of OU, then so be it. I disagree, but at least that's more rational than yelling "head-to-head" or "45-35" to anybody within earshot. Those people are morons.

[ruf/nekdad]

No.

What is being said by some (those that can get past the IT'S ALL ABOUT HEAD TO HEAD!!) is in the case of a three way tie, look at the body of work and rankings to eliminate one of the teams.

Very few people would argue that Tech's season is comparable to Texas' season and OU's season. They are ranked last of the 3, their season as a whole is not as strong and as such, should be eliminated.

Of the two remaining teams, assuming the records are identical, head to head should be given strong emphasis but, certainly consider other factors as well. If Texas had barely squeezed past Baylor, and KU and aggy and the rest of its opponents and OU had billy-stomped Baylor and KU and aggy, then the head to head result would be diminished somewhat. Take rankings into account, take BCS standings into account, but place an emphasis on the results obtained on the field.

Correct me if I'm wrong (like that needs to be said) but I believe that is the rule in the SEC. This however is the big 12. Everyone knew the rules going in and you can lobby to change them, but not in mid season.

[PDXsooner]

hey, i just checked my local sports page and it looks like OU is in the title game, and texas isn't! Ha ha ha ha ha!!!!

[SoonerinSouthlake]

Actually what is funny about all this is that Texas fans and everyone in the nation pretty much knew this would be the scenario WEEKS ago if we won out and Tech won out (only losing to us)

Now that the BCS has come out and ended up exactly as everyone knew it would the whorns act as if they are shocked and appalled.

So I have to conclude that they are crying because all of their campaigning didn’t prove successful