Dear Horn fans

[MamaMia]

The rules were the same for everyone going in. OU knew what they had to do to overcome the loss in Dallas and they did just that. Texas knew the rules.They lost to Tech who OU annihilated. Do the math. If horns believe head to head is the answer, then Tech should go using that mind set, but thats just not how it works.

If you want to hate the rules, then fine; but don't attack the team who overcame them. No way would Stoops agree to do an ESPN interview to whine about his plight during the telecast of a game being played by the very team involved. Stoops was asked to do just that and graciously declined. Mack agreeing to do so was one of the worst displays of bad sportsmanship ever witnessed by the public. Nor would Oklahomans hire a plane with some campaign message attached to cross state lines to intrude on someone else's instate rival game.

OU and OSU didn't make the rules. What did they do to deserve such a rude intrusion on their gameday? Unbelievable! OU's Coach Stoops, A.D. Castiglione and OU Pres. Boren would have spoken out vehemently against such pathetic displays of bad sportsmanship and stopped it in is tracks.

The fact that the University of Texas Longhorns alumni, fans, their coach, AD and the University President had no shame in allowing all this to occur certainly says a lot about them. If Texas does get the powers that be to change the rules, they best not include points for good sportsmanship or class, because OU would run away with the win, yet again.

[Sooner_Havok]

The rules were the same for everyone going in. OU knew what they had to do to overcome the loss in Dallas and they did just that. Texas knew the rules.They lost to Tech who OU annihilated. Do the math. If Tech believes head to head is the answer, then Tech should go using that mind set, but thats just not how it works.

If you want to hate the rules, then fine; but don't attack the team who overcame them. No way would Stoops agree to do an ESPN interview to whine about his plight during the telecast of a game being played by the very team involved. Stoops was asked to do just that and graciously declined. Mack agreeing to do so was one of the worst displays of bad sportsmanship ever witnessed by the public. Nor would Oklahomans hire a plane with some campaign message attached to cross state lines to intrude on someone else's instate rival game.

OU and OSU didn't make the rules. What did they do to deserve such a rude intrusion on their gameday? Unbelievable! OU's Coach Stoops, A.D. Castiglione and OU Pres. Boren would have spoken out vehemently against such pathetic displays of bad sportsmanship and stopped it in is tracks.

The fact that the University of Texas Longhorns alumni, fans, their coach, AD and the University President had no shame in allowing all this to occur certainly says a lot about them. If Texas does get the powers that be to change the rules, they best not include points for good sportsmanship or class, because OU would run away with the win, yet again.

I hope the rule gets changed and texas gets left out next year too

[JLEW1818]

pretty much summed it up

[Collier11]

The BCS wasnt created to reward a team based on one victory, it rewards teams based on their entire season and like it or not tex fans, the system we have in place said that OU had the better season. I dont know why that is so hard to understand for espn and ut fans. You can claim victory over us and thats it, you have no right to anything else. We all play under the same system!

BTW, in back to back statements tonight I heard doug flutie say that texas got screwed which was followed by OU is the best one loss team...explain that one to me?

[Sooner_Havok]

BTW, in back to back statements tonight I heard doug flutie say that texas got screwed which was followed by OU is the best one loss team...explain that one to me?

He thinks texas did everything they should have to play in the CCG but thinks OU has a better team.

[FirstandGoal]

I gotta better response:

Dear Texass fans.

**** off, dip*****


The End

[Tiger6]

I tried to make Tim Griffin state the obvious in an ESPN chat-

Tuck (Oklahoma): Anyone else agree Texas fans are the biggest bunch of cry babies they have ever seen?

SportsNation Tim Griffin: Tuck: I won't go that far. Just say that college football promotes more controversy than any other sport. One of the reasons I like it so much.

Tuck (Oklahoma): Ok, i'll compromise. College football IS controversial.....but Texas is still full of cry babies.

SportsNation Tim Griffin: Tuck: Don't know if I would go that far. I think that whatever team is on the bottom of the stick will always have some complaining.

Couldnt get him to admit it.

[vigilantesooner]

For some reason, every time they change a rule, it always works out perfectly to OU's advantage, which of course has nothing to do with Bob Stoops just plain knowing how to do what it takes to get his team to the big game. It's always a broken system.

Next year, the Big 12 will change the tiebreaker rule to the SEC's. In that year, OU will win the RRS, but lose to another very good South team, setting up another 3 way tie. Meanwhile, Texas will play awesome down the stretch, destroy the team that beat us, and get left out. And OU fans will laugh and laugh....

Point is, it doesn't matter what you do to the rules, OU fans don't care because we know it affects everybody evenly. UT fans seem to be the only ones left out of the loop.

[Soonerinatex]

Texas did everything they could, OU did everything they could, Tech did everything they could. None of the 3 blew it.

OU came out of that stink-**** pile clean, the other 2 didn't. The other 2 need to focus all their energy/resources on changing the Big XII tie break system (or the whole bcs bowl BS at large) and not focus on hating us.

OU should also not take this 'gift' for granted and lobby for changes.

'Cause we could be on the other end of this **** someday

[MamaMia]

If the powers that be change the rules, for example to some ridiculous point scoring system and we score more ponts, some coach with a propensity toward whining will complain they weren't able to score more because of the weather they had to play in that day, and then they'll want extra points for playing in the rain.

When does it end? After we get a playoff? Well, okay. I'm all for a playoff, but if you think thats going to keep people from complaining, guess again. It wont. People like Mack Brown and Pete Carroll will just complain into any mic some ESPN ratings whore/sports commentator offers to them about why they weren't in the playoff.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Wouldn't it be cool if there was a tiebreaker next year with new rules demanded by texass that caused them to lose the title shot to us again??!!

[OU_Sooners75]

Even if the rules was something like points differential against divisional opponents and a common opposite divisional opponent...OU would have been in and Texas been out.

I dont agree with the BCS being involved with determining a divisional representative though, they need to take out the BCS part of the tiebreaker and replace it with something better. The BCS cannot get the top 2 correct most of the time, why would the Big 12 use it as a tie breaker?

All #5 does is set up what we seen and heard the past 2-3 weeks. Politicking by teams/members that know they do not control their own destiny anymore.


I suppose Olemiss should be playing Bama in the SEC CCG since they beat Florida. ;)

[Jacie]

Texas fans = crybabies

[kevpks]

Maybe Texas can put a post-it note reading 45-35 in their trophy case in that blank space where their Big XII and national championship trophies would have gone.

[Sooner in Tampa]

Texas fans = crybabies
the are so much more than that



You laugh today and all of your buddies around the country behind closed doors are yuking it up how you screwed Texas, but there will be consequences to your actions.

I for one hope that includes Texas dropping you from their schedule in the future and screwing you in recruiting in this great state for generations....making you the truly irrelevant little school that you really are.

If not for this great state and the players we provide your school you would be a community college.....when you screw with the bull be prepared to get the Horns.

[badger]

I know I'm running against the wind here, but does anyone else think it's LOL funny that people say OU had a greater strength of schedule when in fact Texas' schedule ranks ahead of ours? My guess is the Warshington and Chatty games brought us down. I think it was Texas No. 12 and OU No. 17 after these past games.

I know that Cincy and TCU seem impressive now, but everyone was uber critical of us back in August/September because of Chattanooga.

So, just to put things in perspective, our schedule was about equal with Texas and in fact was a tad bit easier.

If this outcome proves anything, it's that more changes are no the horizon.

[yukonsooner]

UT fans, and Mack Brown, want to use the head-to-head and omit TT from the discussion. If we beat Mizzou, that will leave an at large BCS spot for the Big XII. Let's do the head-to-head, since only two teams will be involved and send TT to the BCS game since they beat UT.

[badger]

UT fans, and Mack Brown, want to use the head-to-head and omit TT from the discussion. If we beat Mizzou, that will leave an at large BCS spot for the Big XII. Let's do the head-to-head, since only two teams will be involved and send TT to the BCS game since they beat UT.

:P Head-to-head would have pleased Mizzou last year.

:) In seriousness, at-large bids are not head-to-head, but rather, four spots for about 12 teams... to write it all out.

FIVE bowl championship series games, including the MNC.

TWO teams per game for a total of

TEN teams, where

SIX spots are guaranteed to BCS conference champions.

10-6=4, so four at-large bids.

ONE bid, at least, must go to a mid-major champion. No other at-larges are guaranteed that bid, JUST ONE! Check the rules, I'll say it again: JUST ONE!

ONE or TWO bid(s) will be guaranteed to an at-large if they finish in the top four. This will include the loser of the SEC championship game (possibly) and Texas.

ONE or TWO bids will remain for other top-16 teams to fill. There is ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER rule that guarantees one team over another, not even rankings. However, there are rules that will exclude some top-16 teams from participating, such as...

NO MORE THAN TWO teams from each conference can participate in the BCS bowls. Bye, Texas Tech. Sorry.

Personal predictions:
In: Bama, OU, Florida, Texas, USC, Utah, Cincy, Boston College, Penn State... (tough choice) Ohio State.

I chose Ohio State over Boise State, because we all know which fan base puts butts in seats no matter how much we know they'll get beat by.

[aero]

I know I'm running against the wind here, but does anyone else think it's LOL funny that people say OU had a greater strength of schedule when in fact Texas' schedule ranks ahead of ours? My guess is the Warshington and Chatty games brought us down. I think it was Texas No. 12 and OU No. 17 after these past games.

I know that Cincy and TCU seem impressive now, but everyone was uber critical of us back in August/September because of Chattanooga.

So, just to put things in perspective, our schedule was about equal with Texas and in fact was a tad bit easier.

If this outcome proves anything, it's that more changes are no the horizon.

I think that's Sagarins. Some have OU's ahead of texas but they're all close. Personally, I think wins over TCU and Cinci are more impressive than anything texas has. OUr SOS is close enough that its a wash. We both played a pretty good schedule.

[TexasLidig8r]

Mama.. you are a pretty level headed poster but... please. To vilify all UT fans and annoint sainthood for all OU fans is disingenious and inaccurate.

If the roles were reversed, the obscenity laden threads on this site would be legion rivaling the "ESPN hates us" and the "Refs always try to screw us" threads that pop up on a repeated basis.

Do I like the system? No, of course not. To allow coaches from other conferences to have a say in the Big XII tie-breaker system is ludicrous. It is what it is for this year.

Does OU deserve a place in the Big XII title game? Undoubtedly, your offense is playing lights out and since the RRS, OU has played very well and based on this, yes it does.

Now, does OU deserve a place in the Big XII title game over Texas? If Texas had come limping into the finish line, then quite possibly. That was not the scenario. Texas has played extremely well down the stretch, holding two conference teams that scored in the double figures to single digits, Colt has had a wonderful year and Texas has looked and played very impressively.

Anyway, I'm not going to whine about OU being in the title game. Again, the system is what it is. However, why not leave the illogical and ill-founded bashing to those posters far less intelligent than you.

[badger]

Anyway, I'm not going to whine about OU being in the title game. I'm just going to post the RRS score one more time in case you missed my big huge sign I held at the A&M game, the banner behind the plane I was flying over Stillwater on Saturday, or that avatar I was going to make badger post if she lost yet another bet.

:P

[Collier11]

Mama.. you are a pretty level headed poster but... please. To vilify all UT fans and annoint sainthood for all OU fans is disingenious and inaccurate.

Same goes for the ut fans who are blaming Stoops and Ou in all of this

If the roles were reversed, the obscenity laden threads on this site would be legion rivaling the "ESPN hates us" and the "Refs always try to screw us" threads that pop up on a repeated basis.

I would hope not but im sure you are right, each team has fans like this

Do I like the system? No, of course not. To allow coaches from other conferences to have a say in the Big XII tie-breaker system is ludicrous. It is what it is for this year.

You must also admit these two things, the fact that Macks crybaby lobbying can work is pathetic, the fact that the same human voters who voted OU past ut for thumping TT are pathetic for moving ut back ahead of OU almost entirely for beating osu on the road

Does OU deserve a place in the Big XII title game? Undoubtedly, your offense is playing lights out and since the RRS, OU has played very well and based on this, yes it does.

Now, does OU deserve a place in the Big XII title game over Texas? If Texas had come limping into the finish line, then quite possibly. That was not the scenario. Texas has played extremely well down the stretch, holding two conference teams that scored in the double figures to single digits, Colt has had a wonderful year and Texas has looked and played very impressively.

Anyway, I'm not going to whine about OU being in the title game. Again, the system is what it is. However, why not leave the illogical and ill-founded bashing to those posters far less intelligent than you.


The fact of the matter is, whether UT fans like it or not the rules are in place and we were seen as the more deserving team based on the rules that we have. OU did nothing except win the final 6 games on the schedule in a convincing manner to prove their worth

[SoonerMom2]

Mama.. you are a pretty level headed poster but... please. To vilify all UT fans and annoint sainthood for all OU fans is disingenious and inaccurate.

If the roles were reversed, the obscenity laden threads on this site would be legion rivaling the "ESPN hates us" and the "Refs always try to screw us" threads that pop up on a repeated basis.

Do I like the system? No, of course not. To allow coaches from other conferences to have a say in the Big XII tie-breaker system is ludicrous. It is what it is for this year.

Does OU deserve a place in the Big XII title game? Undoubtedly, your offense is playing lights out and since the RRS, OU has played very well and based on this, yes it does.

Now, does OU deserve a place in the Big XII title game over Texas? If Texas had come limping into the finish line, then quite possibly. That was not the scenario. Texas has played extremely well down the stretch, holding two conference teams that scored in the double figures to single digits, Colt has had a wonderful year and Texas has looked and played very impressively.

Anyway, I'm not going to whine about OU being in the title game. Again, the system is what it is. However, why not leave the illogical and ill-founded bashing to those posters far less intelligent than you.

Our family spent almost 8 years in TX and now I remember why I was glad to come to Norman. Your logic defies belief. How much did TX beat OSU at HOME -- four points? How much did OU beat OSU at OSU -- 20 points? What team had all but one road game for Big 12 South schools -- TEXAS? One team had only one home game with Big 12 South schools -- OU? What team played cupcakes in the non-conference -- TX? What team played two top 15 schools in the non conference -- OU?

TX fans have conveniently forgotten about your head to head with Texas Tech this year, or beating OSU by only 4 points at home, or getting points from voters for beating a louzy A&M at home when we clobbered them for the most points ever at College Station and beat a ranked team at their House this weekend. Give me the computers -- Stoops is right no agenda. Wait until this week when we get to see who voted which team in which position and see how many of the voters Brown arm twisted will stick with him and TX.

Mack Brown and all of TX politics was disgusting. Same as it was when you all went after CA and got in ahead of them for the Rose Bowl. One thing Brown will never win is an award for class -- that belongs to Bob Stoops.

[TexasLidig8r]

Our family spent almost 8 years in TX and now I remember why I was glad to come to Norman. Your logic defies belief. How much did TX beat OSU at HOME -- four points? How much did OU beat OSU at OSU -- 20 points? What team had all but one road game for Big 12 South schools -- TEXAS? One team had only one home game with Big 12 South schools -- OU? What team played cupcakes in the non-conference -- TX? What team played two top 15 schools in the non conference -- OU?

How much did OU beat Kansas by at home? 14? How much did Texas beat Kansas by AT Kansas? 28. How much did OU beat aggy by? 38? How much did Texas beat aggy by? 40. What team played the worst FBS Division team and one of the worst Division IIA teams this year? That would be OU.

TX fans have conveniently forgotten about your head to head with Texas Tech this year, or beating OSU by only 4 points at home, or getting points from voters for beating a louzy A&M at home when we clobbered them for the most points ever at College Station and beat a ranked team at their House this weekend. Give me the computers -- Stoops is right no agenda. Wait until this week when we get to see who voted which team in which position and see how many of the voters Brown arm twisted will stick with him and TX.

We will get to see.. we will get to see how Mangino and Leach, Stoops former assistant coaches voted won't we?

Mack Brown and all of TX politics was disgusting. Same as it was when you all went after CA and got in ahead of them for the Rose Bowl.

Actually, what Brown said was, "I hope the voters consider the entire body of work over the course of the season, and when they do, they will see that we deserve to go." After he said this, Texas lost votes in the polls. The computers took in the season's factors and the results on the field proved the correct choice was made.
One thing Brown will never win is an award for class -- that belongs to Bob Stoops.

Actually, in the coaching fraternity, Mack Brown is regarded by most as one of the classiest, most respected coaches in college football.. giving a lot of time to community service and the game.


Don't let the facts get in the way of your ranting though.

[goodolesooner]

Mama.. you are a pretty level headed poster but... please. To vilify all UT fans and annoint sainthood for all OU fans is disingenious and inaccurate.

If the roles were reversed, the obscenity laden threads on this site would be legion rivaling the "ESPN hates us" and the "Refs always try to screw us" threads that pop up on a repeated basis.

Do I like the system? No, of course not. To allow coaches from other conferences to have a say in the Big XII tie-breaker system is ludicrous. It is what it is for this year.

Does OU deserve a place in the Big XII title game? Undoubtedly, your offense is playing lights out and since the RRS, OU has played very well and based on this, yes it does.

Now, does OU deserve a place in the Big XII title game over Texas? If Texas had come limping into the finish line, then quite possibly. That was not the scenario. Texas has played extremely well down the stretch, holding two conference teams that scored in the double figures to single digits, Colt has had a wonderful year and Texas has looked and played very impressively.

Anyway, I'm not going to whine about OU being in the title game. Again, the system is what it is. However, why not leave the illogical and ill-founded bashing to those posters far less intelligent than you.

Classy post.

When I think of the final part of UT's season, I think of a struggle in Austin against Oklahoma State, and an ugly, ugly loss to Texas Tech in which the Longhorns were exposed as a very average at best football team.

OU defeating then #2 Tech in the way that they did was enough to give OU the opportunity to jump Texas in the week after. Going on the road in a hostile, rivalry environment against a highly ranked team to finish off your season is the perfect chance to make your final argument.

We put up 61 and entertained the masses on national television as Texas finished off their season on Thanksgiving against one of the weakest teams I've ever witness come out of College Station.

Throw in our non conference schedule which includes a well ranked Big East Champion, and a highly ranked Texas Christian, and you have a strong start, and an extremely strong finish.

Texas started off by whoopin' up on creampuffs. They beat OU by 10 points, and I think a lot of people understand that OU was not quite the team then that they are now. That's not an excuse for losing the ballgame. I'm pointing out the obvious progression as Texas has stayed the same.

Bottom line is, OU's loss is not NEAR as ugly as UT's. It's weird saying that since our loss was UT, but that's college football and OU proved throughout their season that they have made great strides.

I think the struggle in Austin against OSU is something voters, and computers focused in on more than we think.

[The Maestro]

Hey, I don't blame lid or any other Texas fan for thinking they got screwed by the system. But, what I don't get it folks acting like OU had ANYTHING to do with the system. Hell, the Stoops brothers don't even get a vote in the coaches poll! We just did what we had to do on the field and that is what led to us getting the nod.

If Texas wants to point fingers, start with two folks.

Blake Gideon and Deloss Dodds. Catch a floater and you are 12-0. And schedule better non-conference teams.

Joe C. and Stoops deserve credit for taking on good teams every year OOC. Heck, we only had to play Chatty because MTSU backed out. And we almost suffered because Washington turned out to be so bad. But playing TCU and Cincy is a big reason we move on and the horns don't.

[badger]

Don't let the facts get in the way of your ranting though.

:) 39-33 :)

[TexasEx4OU]

Wait until this week when we get to see who voted which team in which position and see how many of the voters Brown arm twisted will stick with him and TX.

Therein lies part of the problem. You won't get to see any of the vote "switches". Since yesterday's polls were private, and only next week's will be public, chances are (if OU beats Mizzou), those that jumped Texas over OU (and Florida, in the coaches), will simply switch their votes back to where they were after we throttled Tech (and prior to UT's PR campaign), and we'll be none the wiser.

It's been mentioned before in several threads, as well as by Brad Edward's (ESPN's BCS guru) in a recent article, but my biggest issue in all of this is lack of voter accountability. Texas jumped OU in one human poll and Florida in the other, this after:

Florida beat a ranked FSU...at FSU...by 30.
OU beat a ranked OSU...at OSU...by 20 (a team UT beat by 4...in Austin)
UT beat an unranked, 7-loss aTm...in Austin...by 40 (a team OU beat by 38...at Kyle Field).

WTF? If you voted Florida or OU above Texas prior to this past weekend, how can you possibly justify voting Texas higher based on the weekend's results on the field? Couple this with some of the wacky votes last year by folks like Mike Bellotti, the Bowdens and SmellsofBourbon (voting Mizzou higher than OU after OU had beaten them twice), and this whole thing stinks of politics and agendas.

Make the votes public, every week, starting with the week that the first BCS results are announced. Then create some type of oversight committee to monitor the weekly results.

[Collier11]

He thinks texas did everything they should have to play in the CCG but thinks OU has a better team.

Thats why ;)


I tried to make Tim Griffin state the obvious in an ESPN chat-

Tuck (Oklahoma): Anyone else agree Texas fans are the biggest bunch of cry babies they have ever seen?

SportsNation Tim Griffin: Tuck: I won't go that far. Just say that college football promotes more controversy than any other sport. One of the reasons I like it so much.

Tuck (Oklahoma): Ok, i'll compromise. College football IS controversial.....but Texas is still full of cry babies.

SportsNation Tim Griffin: Tuck: Don't know if I would go that far. I think that whatever team is on the bottom of the stick will always have some complaining.

Couldnt get him to admit it.

what is funny is ut fans crying that Stoops cronie Mangino voted them #5 and us #1. Mangino doesnt even vote


Texas did everything they could, OU did everything they could, Tech did everything they could. None of the 3 blew it.

Exactly, the system said we are better


OU should also not take this 'gift' for granted and lobby for changes.



There were no gifts, OU earned what they got with an 11-1 record and a 4 strong victories


Maybe Texas can put a post-it note reading 45-35 in their trophy case in that blank space where their Big XII and national championship trophies would have gone.

They are already talking about printing up Big 12 Champion shirts

[SouthFortySooner]

I've seen a lot of statements from hornfans which would lead you to believe Bob Stoops is paying people. My question is, when would he have time to put together such and outrageous plot? :confused:

[Collier11]

They are just mad and saying stupid stuff

[sadielady]

As a devoted Red Raider, I am pleased that OU is going to the Big 12. They proved how strong a team they were when they played us. They have not been childish in anticipating where they should be placed. OU has waited for the results and has not trash talked those of us that lost. I personally appreciate that! That's not to say that I didn't root for OSU this weekend but I wouldn't be much of a fan if I had done otherwise. Our time will come! But for now, OU beat Mizzou!

[MamaMia]

Mama.. you are a pretty level headed poster but... please. To vilify all UT fans and annoint sainthood for all OU fans is disingenious and inaccurate.

If the roles were reversed, the obscenity laden threads on this site would be legion rivaling the "ESPN hates us" and the "Refs always try to screw us" threads that pop up on a repeated basis.

Do I like the system? No, of course not. To allow coaches from other conferences to have a say in the Big XII tie-breaker system is ludicrous. It is what it is for this year.

Does OU deserve a place in the Big XII title game? Undoubtedly, your offense is playing lights out and since the RRS, OU has played very well and based on this, yes it does.

Now, does OU deserve a place in the Big XII title game over Texas? If Texas had come limping into the finish line, then quite possibly. That was not the scenario. Texas has played extremely well down the stretch, holding two conference teams that scored in the double figures to single digits, Colt has had a wonderful year and Texas has looked and played very impressively.

Anyway, I'm not going to whine about OU being in the title game. Again, the system is what it is. However, why not leave the illogical and ill-founded bashing to those posters far less intelligent than you.What part of we didn't hire a plane to intrude on your instate rival game, hold up lame signs at a game that had nothing to do with Texas and unlike your pathetic coach, our coach graciously bowed out of dissing Texas during a telecast of your game, or any other game for that matter, do you not understand? How dare your fan base attack Sooner fans, and Cowboy fans too for that matter, in such a way. We didnt make the rules. I'm surprised that you aren't ashamed of that type of behavior.

[stoopified]

GREAT POST,possibly the best ever.

[TexasLidig8r]

What part of we didn't hire a plane to intrude on your instate rival game, hold up lame signs at a game that had nothing to do with Texas and unlike your pathetic coach, our coach graciously bowed out of dissing Texas during a telecast of your game, or any other game for that matter, do you not understand? How dare your fan base attack Sooner fans, and Cowboy fans too for that matter, in such a way. We didnt make the rules. I'm surprised that you aren't ashamed of that type of behavior.

Don't be naive Mama.

Pathetic coach? Because Mack stood up for his team? Because he pointed out that Texas beat both teams playing for the Big XII championship by ten points or more?

It seems that only the sooner fan base looks upon Mack as being "pathetic."

So, the score of the Texas - Oklahoma game has nothing to do with Texas and the standings in the polls? wow.

As for fan bases.. come on Mama. You know good and well what it would be like on here if the roles were reversed. There would be the same whining and bitching to a much greater factor than that crap that's being posted on hornfans. Hell, look at some of the posts on here when the system worked for you.. the whining about ESPN (as if THAT wasn't predictable!) and others.

Am I ashamed of some fans behaviors? I think some of it has been ill-advised absolutely and you won't find one post from me anywhere supporting or condoning it. But come on.. to paint sooner fans out as saintly or gracious... keep reading this website and you will find many, many instances where that is far from the truth. You're better than that Mama and we both know it.

The system worked against Texas. I don't like it at all. It is what it is though.

[MamaMia]

Therein lies part of the problem. You won't get to see any of the vote "switches". Since yesterday's polls were private, and only next week's will be public, chances are (if OU beats Mizzou), those that jumped Texas over OU (and Florida, in the coaches), will simply switch their votes back to where they were after we throttled Tech (and prior to UT's PR campaign), and we'll be none the wiser.

It's been mentioned before in several threads, as well as by Brad Edward's (ESPN's BCS guru) in a recent article, but my biggest issue in all of this is lack of voter accountability. Texas jumped OU in one human poll and Florida in the other, this after:

Florida beat a ranked FSU...at FSU...by 30.
OU beat a ranked OSU...at OSU...by 20 (a team UT beat by 4...in Austin)
UT beat an unranked, 7-loss aTm...in Austin...by 40 (a team OU beat by 38...at Kyle Field).

WTF? If you voted Florida or OU above Texas prior to this past weekend, how can you possibly justify voting Texas higher based on the weekend's results on the field? Couple this with some of the wacky votes last year by folks like Mike Bellotti, the Bowdens and SmellsofBourbon (voting Mizzou higher than OU after OU had beaten them twice), and this whole thing stinks of politics and agendas.

Make the votes public, every week, starting with the week that the first BCS results are announced. Then create some type of oversight committee to monitor the weekly results.Exactly.

[Collier11]

What part of we didn't hire a plane to intrude on your instate rival game, hold up lame signs at a game that had nothing to do with Texas and unlike your pathetic coach, our coach graciously bowed out of dissing Texas during a telecast of your game, or any other game for that matter, do you not understand? How dare your fan base attack Sooner fans, and Cowboy fans too for that matter, in such a way. We didnt make the rules. I'm surprised that you aren't ashamed of that type of behavior.

Here is the issue, reality hit ut hard yesterday. Whether you like it or not and most of us hate the BCS, it is the system we have. That system which has been approved and defended vigorously by school AD's and Presidents said that OU is the best team. The point of football or any sport is to find the best team, not the team that was the best on ONE given day. The BCS says OU is better, whether you like it or not, thats what it is!

Ut's shameless attempts to sway votes is not only embarrassing to Ut and its fans but the Big 12 as a whole. Those who think that the Big 12 tie breaker is embarrassing need to look at the way Ut fans and their coach handled the situation. I have always defended Mack as being a class guy and a darn good coach, both of which he still is. But the antics he pulled the past two weeks and several yrs ago against Cal scream of a spoiled brat not getting his way. Mack and alot of ut fans have embarrassed themselves, its just a shame that none of them seem to care.

No one said the system is perfect and most of us will agree that Ut has a beef as well as TT, but get over it. It is what it is, grow up! You werent cheated and you werent robbed, you werent done wrong. If you, your fans, your Coach, or your AD think so then they need to blame the system that they approved and not OU for going 11-1 and dominating every team this yr except for one saturday. One saturday does not make a team or a season

[TexasLidig8r]

Here is the issue, reality hit ut hard yesterday. Whether you like it or not and most of us hate the BCS, it is the system we have. That system which has been approved and defended vigorously by school AD's and Presidents said that OU is the best team. The point of football or any sport is to find the best team, not the team that was the best on ONE given day. The BCS says OU is better, whether you like it or not, thats what it is!

The reality was that two teams played on a neutral field. The better team won. There was no home field advantage, there was no crowd swaying either team to overachieve. If systems (and no, I do NOT necessarily think the system should be changed) can override results on the field, there may be an issue.

Ut's shameless attempts to sway votes is not only embarrassing to Ut and its fans but the Big 12 as a whole. Those who think that the Big 12 tie breaker is embarrassing need to look at the way Ut fans and their coach handled the situation. I have always defended Mack as being a class guy and a darn good coach, both of which he still is. But the antics he pulled the past two weeks and several yrs ago against Cal scream of a spoiled brat not getting his way. Mack and alot of ut fans have embarrassed themselves, its just a shame that none of them seem to care.

Let's get the "Cal situation" straightened up. After the aggy game, when asked by a reporter Mack stated, "I hope the voters will consider our season as a whole, our entire body of work. When they do, we should be worthy of a BCS bowl." That was it. The less informed fans run with the mantra of "Mack whined for votes" when the facts do not support them, but, why ruin a good group think? The facts are that after Mack made these remarks, Texas dropped in the AP and coaches polls. It was the computers which pushed Texas over Cal. The Rose Bowl was not obligated to take Cal since the Rose Bowl pits the conference champions from the Big 10/11 and Pac 10. Only one team fit that criteria that year.. and that was Michigan. Finally, the results on the field certainly supported Mack's views.

By the way, the consider the body of work actually originated the year before by none other than Bob Stoops after the K-State fiasco when he urged voters to remember OU's dominance throughout the year and consider the "entire body of work."

One saturday does not make a team or a season

In this case, it apparently does. See, Texas v. Tech.

Many differing views.

[picasso]

it's a cluster **** but it would be even worse if it was up to the AP.

I like to think it's revenge for 1984.

[A Sooner in Texas]

As for fan bases.. come on Mama. You know good and well what it would be like on here if the roles were reversed. There would be the same whining and bitching to a much greater factor than that crap that's being posted on hornfans. Hell, look at some of the posts on here when the system worked for you.. the whining about ESPN (as if THAT wasn't predictable!) and others.


The system worked against Texas. I don't like it at all. It is what it is though.

Who's being naive now? Look at the whining and bitching going on in the whorn fanbase. Any that would go on here could never be as bad as that. And please, Mack was doing what he needed to do? You didn't see Stoops interrupting the UT-A&M game to plead our case. Stoops took the high road; Mack most certainly did not.
The system worked against Texas, but if Texas had gotten the call, the system would have worked against Tech. It is what it is though.

[BlondeSoonerGirl]

Overriding results on the field? Holy hell, Lid - you do remember that you lost a game, right?

YOU LOST A GAME. YOU LOST A GAME. YOU. LOST. A. GAME.

And as for your coach - 'deserve' has nothing to do with it. And him taking every opportunity to try and convince anyone that would listen that it does is probably the fundamental difference in thinking between our coach and yours.

Ours would probably say that if we would have taken care of business against you guys there wouldn't be an issue. We lost a game so we can't blame anyone or say we accomplished something we didn't. It's all on us.

But since we did lose a game we ended up in the same ****pot as the other two teams that lost a game. And we had to wait and see how this awesome system we're all living by shook out. Just like you did.

You don't 'deserve' a goddamned thing. Not anything more than us or Tech. You might think you're the better team and there ain't nothing wrong with that. You're supposed to. But crying about being cheated out of something is so ****ing weak. Dang.

[TexasLidig8r]

You don't 'deserve' a goddamned thing. Not anything more than us or Tech. You might think you're the better team and there ain't nothing wrong with that. You're supposed to. But crying about being cheated out of something is so ****ing weak. Dang.

Deserve? Nah. I don't think deserve is the right word to use. The only thing a team deserves is an even playing field. Everyone received that.

Oh.. and I agree, as I stated before, that whining and bitching about being "cheated out of something" is unbecoming. You won't and haven't seen me do that. All fan bases have fans who do that.

As an aside, I don't necessary agree the system should be changed. As it exists, arguably, it provides the best opportunity for a Big XII team to win a national championship. And after all, that is what should be the goal.

If the roles were reversed though... my God.. (there's already 2 threads on here about ESPN bias or how ESPN and everyone else hates OU). Just imagine what it would have been like!

Wanna go shoe shopping?

[Pricetag]

If the roles were reversed though... my God.. (there's already 2 threads on here about ESPN bias or how ESPN and everyone else hates OU). Just imagine what it would have been like!
It is amusing that you continue to say that if it were reversed, it would be so much worse here. Your boards shut down every time we beat you guys, and there is seldom any kind of controversy involved there. Like it or not, we are very similar as college football fans. To suggest that you are handling it better than we would have is fantasy.

[MamaMia]

Don't be naive Mama.Its a well known fact that I am far from naive. Can the name calling.


Pathetic coach? Because Mack stood up for his team? Because he pointed out that Texas beat both teams playing for the Big XII championship by ten points or more?

It seems that only the sooner fan base looks upon Mack as being "pathetic.".So, the score of the Texas - Oklahoma game has nothing to do with Texas and the standings in the polls? wow. You betcha. If your coach wants to "stand up" for your team then fine, but doing it on our turf and at our expense is absolutely pathetic. I am so grateful Coach Stoops didn't embarrass us in such a way. The next time one of you people make a move, you might want to consult www.missmanners.com. We had to beat Missouri twice last year. Big woo. It was fun. They won the North playing by the same rules we all play by, so they deserved to play us again. Thats just the way the ball bounces. So you beat us by a lousy 10 points and we totally annihilated Tech who beat you, but so what. Rules are rules. We knew them going in and so did you. We won more games in the stretch when it mattered. You didn't. No sense in Mack making a public display out of himself over it.


As for fan bases.. come on Mama. You know good and well what it would be like on here if the roles were reversed. There would be the same whining and bitching to a much greater factor than that crap that's being posted on hornfans. Hell, look at some of the posts on here when the system worked for you.. the whining about ESPN (as if THAT wasn't predictable!) and others. How dare you tell me what I know. If you want to state your opinion then fine. Do it. I am perfectly capable of telling you what I know. Such as...I never said one word about what your fans are saying on the message boards and quite frankly thats okay by me. Thats what message boards are for. You all have every right to moan and groan and whine and bitch on your board. Hey, you're welcome to come on our board as well to whine and bitch all you want, but for your coach, your fans, the ut alumni, your AD and the President of ut to allow the scheduled, orchestrated ongoing public attack and whine fest against OU all over the airways and OU and osu up in the Oklahoma sky is beyond pathetic, especially when it goes so far as to intrude on our instate rival game. Shame on you all.


Am I ashamed of some fans behaviors? I think some of it has been ill-advised absolutely and you won't find one post from me anywhere supporting or condoning it. But come on.. to paint sooner fans out as saintly or gracious... keep reading this website and you will find many, many instances where that is far from the truth. You're better than that Mama and we both know it.

The system worked against Texas. I don't like it at all. It is what it is though. "Ill advised" is putting it mildly. The ut behavior as a whole has been shockingly ill mannered. I never once said that Sooner fans were "saintly." This day in and day out annoying habit you have of disagreeing with and attacking folks for making statements they never made is also pathetic. Cant you have an honest debate without telling fibs?

As far as you accusing me of saying that Sooners have been gracious... I never said that either. I said Coach Stoops graciously bowed out of scheduling an interview during your game, or any other time for that matter to campaign for us; however since you walked into it; Yes, I do believe, message boards set aside, that Sooners have been gracious. I only saw one sign giving the Texas/A&M game score at our Bedlam game and it was home made; not a part of some huge elaborate Texas Tech-39 Texas Longhorns-33 sign campaign. There have been no national anti-Texas Longhorn interviews scheduled, nor have we pulled any banners behind any planes in your state, or above your gameday, or anywhere else for that matter. I was even impressed that Pistol Pete and the Ruf Neks didn't shoot your sorry banner off the back of your plane. So yes, we have been very gracious in spite of the fact that you all are a bunch of bad sports.

But look, I do understand that Texas is a big huge state and therefore lends itself to that type of thing. You just cant expect such a large population to have good manners. Except for some inbred pokes, the people in the great state of Oklahoma however are a tight nit group of folks and most of us were raised with wholesome qualities. Its our way of life. Not a whole lot of Oklahoma families fail at teaching their children the importance of sucking it up and being humble enough to shake the hand of the victor, no matter what the circumstances. I was impressed however with how even the pokes thought that your plane intruding on our game day was rude. Thats got to sting.

Bottom line: We won the chance to play in the Big XII Championship game and we should be congratulated and left alone to celebrate among ourselves. Its over. We didn't make the rules. Lid you know I love you and want to have you with us here every day but please do your complaining and attacking with your own people. Its our time to be happy. :)

[Stoop Dawg]

The reality was that two teams played on a neutral field. The better team won. There was no home field advantage, there was no crowd swaying either team to overachieve. If systems (and no, I do NOT necessarily think the system should be changed) can override results on the field, there may be an issue.


So you're saying that OU - not Texas - should have represented the Big 12 South in 2001?

[Stoop Dawg]

And where was all of this "but we beat OU head-to-head" angst in 2006?

[soonervegas]

Did Texas get a raw deal? Yes. Did Tech? Yes. Did OU have anything to do with how the system works? No.

Was the display put on by Texas fans, Mack Brown, and ESPN nauseating this weekend? Yes.

[Collier11]

Many differing views.

The thing you are missing with all due respect to you is that the best team doesnt always win. The coaches didnt think so, the computers didnt think so. We all know Ole miss isnt better than Florida and we all know Iowa isnt better than Penn st. While it is alot closer in this case, Ou was seen as the better team. Listen again, the point of the BCS is to find the best team and Ou was seen as the best team. One game doesnt mean ut is better than OU. It was a tight game in which we led the whole way. If you want to continue using your flawed TT logic that you guys only lost on the last play of the game then you are in fact defending OU's argument. OU led the entire game and only lost in the last 6 minutes

[Stoop Dawg]

What's "raw" about not getting to play for a championship due to the fact that you lost a game?

UT and Tech got what they deserved. OU got more than we deserved.

Rocks to be us.

[Collier11]

And one last thing about fan behavior, you and other ut fans get treated pretty damn well around here. I enjoy your posts usually and think based on how you act around here that you are probably a pretty good guy.

Having said that, I have breezed around two horns sites this weekend to see the response without even saying a word and this is an honest to God sample of what I have seen, now tell me who here has treated you or other ut fans that come on here in this manner???

I hope a tornado goes thru Oklahoma soon

Stoops is a lying POS
Stoops and his cronies fixed this
Manginos fat *** voted OU #1

Oklahomans live in trailers(like that is original or funny anymore)

We are fags

We paid off the big 12

Stoops cheats to win anything he has ever gotten(so far from the truth it isnt even laughable)

Stoops is classless how he has acted(how exactly has he acted)

OU ran up the score on osu and TT to get style points(didnt we pull our starters against TT in the 3rd quarter, didnt ut just beat A&M by 40 pts?) etc...

[sooneron]

Saying the "better" team won as an overall point is highly subjective. Yes, ut came away with a win. However, there were quite a few ifs that transpired in that game and OU led for the majority of it. I would have to say that staright up, these two teams are pretty damn equal, with a slight edge to OU's offense.
It really did take ut more than 3 quarters to hang 49 on atm at home, a number which OU hung on them by halftime on the road.

[The Maestro]

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t206/SamBronkowitz/austindewsh.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3290/3073816261_bdb19c4092_o.jpg

[TexasLidig8r]

Bottom line: We won the chance to play in the Big XII Championship game and we should be congratulated and left alone to celebrate among ourselves. Its over. We didn't make the rules. Lid you know I love you and want to have you with us here every day but please do your complaining and attacking with your own people. Its our time to be happy. :)

Mama.. Mama... Mama.. I'm gonna have to spank you. I didn't call you names. (I save that for a few choice individuals!)

And, if I were really in the mood to complain, I would join my brethren on hornfans or elsewhere to commiserate.

As for this website, how many Texas fans have come on here to whine and bitch and complain?

I certainly can't and wont bitch at OU.. you played the games, you won big, the system, which I don't necessarily like, put you in the Big XII title game. Those are the facts. I don't have to like 'em but bellyaching about them won't change anything and would just make me look bad.

Having said all that.. and with all due respect.

Go MiZZOU.

[MamaMia]

Mama.. Mama... Mama.. I'm gonna have to spank you. I didn't call you names. (I save that for a few choice individuals!)

And, if I were really in the mood to complain, I would join my brethren on hornfans or elsewhere to commiserate.

As for this website, how many Texas fans have come on here to whine and bitch and complain?

I certainly can't and wont bitch at OU.. you played the games, you won big, the system, which I don't necessarily like, put you in the Big XII title game. Those are the facts. I don't have to like 'em but bellyaching about them won't change anything and would just make me look bad.

Having said all that.. and with all due respect.

Go MiZZOU. You did called me naive, but if you want to spank me for being a very bad girl, I'll bring the wine if you light the candles. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/OUmom/shy02.gif

[Collier11]

you do realize that he is just teasing you, we all know that ut fans are qweer ;)

[Soonersince57]

You did called me naive, but if you want to spank me for being a very bad girl, I'll bring the wine if you light the candles. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/OUmom/shy02.gif

:pop:

[TexasLidig8r]

You did called me naive, but if you want to spank me for being a very bad girl, I'll bring the wine if you light the candles. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/OUmom/shy02.gif

hmmmm... and Aromatique has some good Christmas candles out this year too....

See, I can ghey up the most non-ghey thread possible. :D

[Alum81]

Having said all that.. and with all due respect.
Go MiZZOU.

Texas...g8tr,

since you seem to have some logic associated with your feelings, I pose a question:

Should your new team (Go MiZZOU.) happen to pull out a victory next week, will you follow all of the logic you've been espousing here on our board and graciously call for Texas Tech to go to the bowl game you end up getting picked for because, let's be fair, they beat you fair and square 38-33 and they have the same record as you!

Also,

If Texas does end up going to the BCS Championship game because of said fluke win by Missouri, doesn't Tech have every right to do the following:

1) Have 40,000 signs that say 38-33 held up at their bowl game, in an effort to sway the final AP Vote?

2) Fly a plane over the Orange Bowl during the BCS Championship game between Texas and Florida saying "38-33 - We should be playing in this game, not Texas!"

3) Mike Leach should call all the major sports networks and spout sick drivel about how his team won the game on the field and beat Texas and Tech should really be given a chance for what is rightfully theirs; and how can you tell the Tech players, who played their hearts out and won the game on the field that now they can't go to the BCS Championship game and yada yada yada.......ad infinitum

They have the right. Point is, even though they are a lesser university in Texas, they have shown WAY MORE CLASS than your university and they would continue to show that class and wouldn't do any of the things above.

[mhackl]

While Texas did beat Oklahoma, what sunk the Longhorns with the computers was the rest of its schedule. Its four nonconference foes were weaker than Oklahoma’s. And within the Big 12, the teams played five common opponents. Oklahoma won all five games, three of them on the road; Texas won four of them, and played three of the five games at home.

[badger]

Lid, I still blame you for the absence of AD's abs all season :mad:

That being said, let me post them a few times to make up for lost time:
http://i38.tinypic.com/v6222s.jpghttp://i38.tinypic.com/v6222s.jpghttp://i38.tinypic.com/v6222s.jpg

Ah, much better... but we should go one larger, shouldn't we?
http://i37.tinypic.com/nvcevm.jpg
:D The recruit that got away from Mack AND Pete. That Bob Stoops sure knows how to beat you guys off the field (and on the field too), doesn't he? :D

[TexasLidig8r]

Texas...g8tr,

since you seem to have some logic associated with your feelings, I pose a question:

Should your new team (Go MiZZOU.) happen to pull out a victory next week, will you follow all of the logic you've been espousing here on our board and graciously call for Texas Tech to go to the bowl game you end up getting picked for because, let's be fair, they beat you fair and square 38-33 and they have the same record as you!

.

No, because that ignores the totality of circumstances and body of work over the course of the year that YOUR own coach espoused in 2003 and that has been parroted on here.

Tech played 2 Division II schools this year (and not because a team backed out on them)...

They barely squeeked by Nebish in overtime. They barely beat Baylor at home.

They had their asses handed to them by 44 points on national television. All other things being equal, no national title contender should be allowed to compete for a national title with this on their resume that year.

Their body of work is crowned by one, glorious night and that's pretty much it.

Oh.. Mizzou is not my new team. If anything, it would be the Flying Manginos because my son goes to KU.

[Collier11]

No, because that ignores the totality of circumstances and body of work over the course of the year that YOUR own coach espoused in 2003 and that has been parroted on here.

Tech played 2 Division II schools this year (and not because a team backed out on them)...

They barely squeeked by Nebish in overtime. They barely beat Baylor at home.

They had their asses handed to them by 44 points on national television. All other things being equal, no national title contender should be allowed to compete for a national title with this on their resume that year.

Their body of work is crowned by one, glorious night and that's pretty much it.

Oh.. Mizzou is not my new team. If anything, it would be the Flying Manginos because my son goes to KU.

So you just argued the ignorance of 45-35...a win in October doesnt take into consideration the entire body of work. The coaches and computers both though that as a whole, Ou is the better team.

[TexasLidig8r]

So you just argued the ignorance of 45-35...a win in October doesnt take into consideration the entire body of work. The coaches and computers both though that as a whole, Ou is the better team.

I was comparing Texas body of work to Tech's season. Of that there is no dispute who was much more impressive. As for Texas v. OU....

45 - 35 (how nice of you to remember) plus other games does take into account the entire body of work.

Texas mudholed KU on their home field far worse than OU beat them.

Texas mudholed the Baptists.

Texas mudholed aggy.

Texas defense is playing far better than OUs defense.

Special teams are not even close (whoops.. is that another kick off return for a touchdown?)

Texas mudholed Mizzou.

Texas mudholed its non-conference opponents.

Those teams that Texas should have drilled.. were drilled deep.

And.. there is ONE point separating Texas and OU in the coaches poll. That's hardly a rousing endorsement.

Texas' season vs. Tech's season? No comparison.

[Collier11]

and despite all the flaws that you point out, we are still winning our games by 29 ppg

[Soonerus]

I was comparing Texas body of work to Tech's season. Of that there is no dispute who was much more impressive. As for Texas v. OU....

45 - 35 (how nice of you to remember) plus other games does take into account the entire body of work.

Texas mudholed KU on their home field far worse than OU beat them.

Texas mudholed the Baptists.

Texas mudholed aggy.

Texas defense is playing far better than OUs defense.

Special teams are not even close (whoops.. is that another kick off return for a touchdown?)

Texas mudholed Mizzou.

Texas mudholed its non-conference opponents.

Those teams that Texas should have drilled.. were drilled deep.

And.. there is ONE point separating Texas and OU in the coaches poll. That's hardly a rousing endorsement.

Texas' season vs. Tech's season? No comparison.

OU "mudholed" all of the above plus Cincy and TCU...for a more complete body of work...

[SoonerBacker]

Since you love to compare scores, let's do it for all common opponents. Not just those that seem to benefit the Whorns.


"Texas mudholed KU on their home field far worse than OU beat them."

35-7 v 45-31. 14 point difference in the margin of victory.

And you forgot to mention the scores of the oSu games? How come?
Texas 28-24 in Austin.
OU 61-41 in Stillwater.

"Texas mudholed the Baptists." 45-21
So did Oklahoma, in Waco. 49-17

"Texas mudholed aggy." 49-9 in Austin
So did Oklahoma, in College Station. 66-28.

"Texas defense is playing far better than OUs defense."
Tell that to Tech!

"Special teams are not even close (whoops.. is that another kick off return for a touchdown?)"
Point

"Texas mudholed Mizzou."
You forgot to mention that you "mudholed" Colorado (38-14). Is that because they lost to Nebraska? A team that Oklahoma crushed 62-28?

"Texas mudholed its non-conference opponents."
None of which are ranked.
So did Oklahoma, 2 of which are ranked. And that is probably why the computers moved us ahead of you.

"Those teams that Texas should have drilled.. were drilled deep."
That's because "drillilng deep" is a favorite passtime in Austin. :texan:

[Cam]

In that case, it's a 2-way tie and you go by head to head and you're done.

Seriously, how fuggin hard of a concept is this?

2-way tie ='s head to head
3-way tie ='s body of work, total points, total margin of victory, or many other variables.

Hope that clears up the basics of how sports rankings are settled for you. It's obvious you're having issues with the concept.


No, because that ignores the totality of circumstances and body of work over the course of the year that YOUR own coach espoused in 2003 and that has been parroted on here.

Tech played 2 Division II schools this year (and not because a team backed out on them)...

They barely squeeked by Nebish in overtime. They barely beat Baylor at home.

They had their asses handed to them by 44 points on national television. All other things being equal, no national title contender should be allowed to compete for a national title with this on their resume that year.

Their body of work is crowned by one, glorious night and that's pretty much it.

Oh.. Mizzou is not my new team. If anything, it would be the Flying Manginos because my son goes to KU.

[Salt City Sooner]

No, because that ignores the totality of circumstances and body of work over the course of the year that YOUR own coach espoused in 2003 and that has been parroted on here.

Tech played 2 Division II schools this year (and not because a team backed out on them)...

They barely squeeked by Nebish in overtime. They barely beat Baylor at home.

They had their asses handed to them by 44 points on national television. All other things being equal, no national title contender should be allowed to compete for a national title with this on their resume that year.

Their body of work is crowned by one, glorious night and that's pretty much it.

Oh.. Mizzou is not my new team. If anything, it would be the Flying Manginos because my son goes to KU.
Wrong. Tulsa backed out on Tech late (January), thus the Eastern Washington game.


Tulsa will play at Arkansas during the 2008 football season, sources said on Friday afternoon. The game is scheduled for Nov. 1 in Fayetteville.
The Golden Hurricane has completed its nonconference schedule for the upcoming year. Tulsa opens at North Texas on Sept. 6 before playing home games against New Mexico (Sept. 20) and Central Arkansas (Sept. 27) in the renovated Chapman Stadium.

Arkansas will replace Texas Tech on the TU football schedule. Army was supposed to return a home-and-home game to Tulsa, but Army canceled its return trip and paid Tulsa a buy-out fee to cancel the contract. TU officials didn't release the amount Army paid.

The TU-Arkansas game will reunite Gus Malzahn and the Razorbacks. Malzahn spent one season as the Hogs offensive coordinator before leaving to take the same position at TU in 2007. His Golden Hurricane offense led the nation in total offense.

Arkansas will be led by coach Bobby Petrino, who will be in his first season at the school after taking over for Houston Nutt.

It will be the 71st meeting between the schools, and the first since 2003. Arkansas leads the series 51-16.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080111_2__Tulsa08150

[tulsaoilerfan]

You did called me naive, but if you want to spank me for being a very bad girl, I'll bring the wine if you light the candles. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/OUmom/shy02.gif

Can i play? :D

[GKeeper316]

No, because that ignores the totality of circumstances and body of work over the course of the year that YOUR own coach espoused in 2003 and that has been parroted on here.

Tech played 2 Division II schools this year (and not because a team backed out on them)...

They barely squeeked by Nebish in overtime. They barely beat Baylor at home.

They had their asses handed to them by 44 points on national television. All other things being equal, no national title contender should be allowed to compete for a national title with this on their resume that year.

Their body of work is crowned by one, glorious night and that's pretty much it.

Oh.. Mizzou is not my new team. If anything, it would be the Flying Manginos because my son goes to KU.

so, what you're saying is that our arguement actually DOES have merit then? OU's body of work counts? if it counts, then you have to look at it for what it is... a tougher schedule that the cows.

all the whining, crying (and keep up the crying... sam bradford is a robot fueled by the tears of crying cows) politicing, flying ****in planes over our games and everything else you whiny selfish pathetic worthless bovine *********s have been trying for the last week STILL isnt enough to convince 6 computers that you didnt lose to tech.

mack brown and your disgusting piece of **** school did this same **** in 04 and cost cal thier first chance to play in a rose bowl since 1959.

personally i love the atmosphere you crybabies are building. you dont think all this is going to **** off the sooners to the point they hang a hundred on mizzou and then on whatever SEC team is unlucky enough to face us in miami??

[Brons2]

Our time will come!

No, no it won't. You guys have never won anything worth a damn on the road and you probably never will. Oh sure you trip up UT or OU from time to time in that black hole called Lubbock, but you're really just playing spoiler. Once some Pac-10 school hires away Leach you guys are going to suck.

[Brons2]

It is amusing that you continue to say that if it were reversed, it would be so much worse here. Your boards shut down every time we beat you guys, and there is seldom any kind of controversy involved there. Like it or not, we are very similar as college football fans. To suggest that you are handling it better than we would have is fantasy.

Huh? Texas fans are going at each other's throats. There's the whiners, and the anti-whiners. Several people at the board I post on (not hornfans...) got 1 day bans yesterday evening.

If there's less of that going on at Hornfans, that's due to their nazi moderators.

[Brons2]

you dont think all this is going to **** off the sooners to the point they hang a hundred on mizzou and then on whatever SEC team is unlucky enough to face us in miami??

Your recent bowl history does not suggest this will happen. The SEC representative in the title game will be a very good football team. I seriously doubt OU will hang even half a hundred on them

[olevetonahill]

hmmmm... and Aromatique has some good Christmas candles out this year too....

See, I can ghey up the most non-ghey thread possible. :D

No Self respectin SOONER gal would Have yer fatass.:rolleyes:
You Keep Playing here to Hopefully grab some Innocent Sooner Gal .:mad:

[pott_2]

Lid makes very good points. If OU would have been left out this board would be unbearable. The reason that tx does not have a case, IMO, is this:
First, the conference had to go the 5th rule tiebreaker to determine who represents the south. Second, if OU would have lost to OkieLite, then tx would still be sitting out (Rule number 1 of the tiebreaker).

The records of the three teams will be compared against each other
The records of the three teams will be compared within their division
The records of the three teams will be compared against the next highest placed teams in their division in order of fi nish (4, 5 and 6)
The records of the three teams will be compared against all common conference opponents;
The highest ranked team in the fi rst Bowl Championship Series Poll following the completion of Big 12 regular season conference play shall be the representative

5 rules into a tiebreker is deep. That is why I don't think the rule should be changed either. That is just another knee-jerk reaction.

An OU tx championship game would be sweet. Go gators, but go really bad.

[ruf/nekdad]

Texas...g8tr,

since you seem to have some logic associated with your feelings, I pose a question:

Should your new team (Go MiZZOU.) happen to pull out a victory next week, will you follow all of the logic you've been espousing here on our board and graciously call for Texas Tech to go to the bowl game you end up getting picked for because, let's be fair, they beat you fair and square 38-33 and they have the same record as you!

Also,

If Texas does end up going to the BCS Championship game because of said fluke win by Missouri, doesn't Tech have every right to do the following:

1) Have 40,000 signs that say 38-33 held up at their bowl game, in an effort to sway the final AP Vote?

2) Fly a plane over the Orange Bowl during the BCS Championship game between Texas and Florida saying "38-33 - We should be playing in this game, not Texas!"

3) Mike Leach should call all the major sports networks and spout sick drivel about how his team won the game on the field and beat Texas and Tech should really be given a chance for what is rightfully theirs; and how can you tell the Tech players, who played their hearts out and won the game on the field that now they can't go to the BCS Championship game and yada yada yada.......ad infinitum

They have the right. Point is, even though they are a lesser university in Texas, they have shown WAY MORE CLASS than your university and they would continue to show that class and wouldn't do any of the things above.

That's good stuff right there.

[Collier11]

Lid makes very good points. If OU would have been left out this board would be unbearable. The reason that tx does not have a case, IMO, is this:
.


Typically this might be the case but in this situation I dont agree, most of us around here realize that the majority of the media are on ut's side, we also realize that the tie-breaker in place is the one that was in place all year. Now the thing that some might have flipped about is if Macks lobbying had worked completely, other than that it is what it is

[Collier11]

Lid makes very good points. If OU would have been left out this board would be unbearable. The reason that tx does not have a case, IMO, is this:
.


dbl post

[void]

However, why not leave the illogical and ill-founded bashing to those posters far less intelligent than you.

because tejas sucks.

[BlondeSoonerGirl]

Oh, this place would be a hillbilly mess. The ignunce would be so thick, Mrs. Butterworth would be jealous.

Thing is, we'd be mad but we wouldn't have to save face for all the planes and begging and crying and jackassery that was yanked all week like they're having to do. That must suck.

:mack:

[TexasLidig8r]

so, what you're saying is that our arguement actually DOES have merit then? OU's body of work counts? if it counts, then you have to look at it for what it is... a tougher schedule that the cows.

Au contraire. By all means, consider the entire body of work over the course of the season. As for schedules, those pesky facts keep getting in the way. Even this site has Texas schedule tougher than OUs. http://www.solecismic.com/frontier/sos9.php. Both OU and Texas are ranked in the Top 5 of all respected pollsters ranking strength of schedule. I know you want this to be true... but again, facts don't support you.

all the whining, crying (and keep up the crying... sam bradford is a robot fueled by the tears of crying cows) politicing, flying ****in planes over our games and everything else you whiny selfish pathetic worthless bovine *********s have been trying for the last week STILL isnt enough to convince 6 computers that you didnt lose to tech.

mack brown and your disgusting piece of **** school did this same **** in 04 and cost cal thier first chance to play in a rose bowl since 1959.

That piece of **** school that is far more respected academically than yours you mean? And one more time, look at the facts of 2004. After the aggy game, Mack was asked about where Texas should go. Mack stated that voters should look at Texas' body of work over the course of the season and when they did, Texas should be in a BCS bowl. In essence, Mack did exactly what Stoops did after you lost to K-State the year before in the Big XII championship game. As for 2004, the voters, AP and coaches, had FEWER votes for Texas after the aggy game. It was only when Cal played lethargically against a woeful Southern Miss team the next week, the computers (ironically) had Texas over Cal. The results vindicated the placement of the teams. Texas played in one of the most watched, exciting Rose Bowls of all time (as set forth by the LA Times) winning over Michigan while Cal was mudholed by Tech in the Holiday Bowl.

personally i love the atmosphere you crybabies are building. you dont think all this is going to **** off the sooners to the point they hang a hundred on mizzou and then on whatever SEC team is unlucky enough to face us in miami??

Your dubious bowl history, defense that is giving up 32 points a game and woeful special teams may indicate otherwise.

And that was your first post? wow. :rolleyes:

[Collier11]

And that was your first post? wow. :rolleyes:

actually we are giving up 24 and scoring 53

[Collier11]

and another thing, you guys can point to our bowl history recently all you want, we have been bad. But while you were playing in 2 bcs games and numerous holiday bowls, we were playing in 6 bcs games and 3 natl titles so we were playing teams that were a little bit better than ut was playing

[TexasLidig8r]

and another thing, you guys can point to our bowl history recently all you want, we have been bad. But while you were playing in 2 bcs games and numerous holiday bowls, we were playing in 6 bcs games and 3 natl titles so we were playing teams that were a little bit better than ut was playing

ah.. but we were allegedly not as good as OU though. So, we were playing teams purportedly more on our level.

Last year for example, you played the team ranked 9th in the BCS who were the Big Least Champs. We played the team ranked 11th in the BCS who was also Pac 10 co-champs.

I will also not mercifully discuss Boise State. YWIA.

[Collier11]

Ok lets do

Last yr, Wvirg was a Pat white injury from playing for the natl title. They were #2 the week before he got hurt and lost to pitt. Now, we still didnt show up

Everyone wants to call Boise a big upset, they were undefeated, ranked 9th, we were 7. We should have beat them and shouldnt have fallend behind 21-0 or whatever it was. They were still a damn good team

On top of that, if you guys want to talk about our bowl failures, what about ut's big 12 failures...twice getting upset by A&M and Kstate, winning only 1 big 12 title under Mack while we are about to win our 6th

[picasso]

I was comparing Texas body of work to Tech's season. Of that there is no dispute who was much more impressive. As for Texas v. OU....

45 - 35 (how nice of you to remember) plus other games does take into account the entire body of work.

Texas mudholed KU on their home field far worse than OU beat them.

Texas mudholed the Baptists.

Texas mudholed aggy.

Texas defense is playing far better than OUs defense.

Special teams are not even close (whoops.. is that another kick off return for a touchdown?)

Texas mudholed Mizzou.

Texas mudholed its non-conference opponents.

Those teams that Texas should have drilled.. were drilled deep.

And.. there is ONE point separating Texas and OU in the coaches poll. That's hardly a rousing endorsement.

Texas' season vs. Tech's season? No comparison.

Dude, mudholed is sooo played.

sincerely,

anyone reading Hornfans.com

[Knippz]

Huh? Texas fans are going at each other's throats. There's the whiners, and the anti-whiners. Several people at the board I post on (not hornfans...) got 1 day bans yesterday evening.

If there's less of that going on at Hornfans, that's due to their nazi moderators.

True. The mods there are quite ridiculous. And there is civil war going on there.

[Knippz]

Here's the deal, Lid. You were the last Texas fan I was expected to come on our board and start whining. However, you are a whorn fan, and it makes sense.

I am now going to present some arguments that you cannot argue against.

-Head-to-head doesn't matter in a 3 way tie.

-Texas dropped a bad game to Tech, just like we dropped a bad game to Texas. We are a better team, and you know it. You said it yourself that we were the better team before the game. At least 7 times out of 10, we win that game.

-In the event of a 3-way-tie, head-to-head DOES NOT MATTER.

-If head-to-head really mattered, then A&M should have been ranked ahead of you last year, right? We should have been ranked ahead of Mizzou last year after beating them TWICE, right? This leads me to my next point...

-Last year when we beat Mizzou twice, did we start a campiagn to be ranked ahead of them? No. We dealt with it and moved on.

There is absolutely no way you can seriously believe that intruding someone else's game with a plane, and your coach calling into the game trash talking, isn't classless. You will NEVER, EVER see Stoops do something like that, no matter the circumstances.

-How can you whine about this, after Texas was the beneficiary in '04 over Cal? Sure, you were the better team. But weren't y'all in a similar situation as us? The voters liked them, but the computers liked you. But now you complain about this? Really?

-If Texas had been ranked above us after this weekend, you would not have seen us bashing Texas, or the fans. Rather, we would have complained about the BCS. Mainly the voters, because either way it went, the voters are quite stupid.

-Had you not dropped an egg to Tech, you wouldn't be in this situation. Same with us - had we not dropped an egg to you, we wouldn't have been in the situation. Luckily for us, we came out on top.

-At what point, should a home win against a 4-7 unranked team vault a team above a team (already ranked above them) that beat a 12th ranked 9-2 team on the road? Please answer this question. Please.

-We handled the situation with WAY better class than UT did, and you know it. Sure, we could have countered the 30,000 45-35 signs with signs of our own. You know, 65-21, 39-33. But we, as fans, took the high road. The most you got out of us was the guy at the end of the game when Bradford was getting interviewed, in the background. That's it. Did we fly a plane over YOUR game? No. Did we buy 30,000 signs? No. Did we intrude your game? No.

-We were the only team to win a in-conference road game in the conference.

-Why doesn't Tech get any argument in this? Just because we slaughtered them? That's no fair. Mind you that you guys were down quite a bit vs Tech, but they allowed you to come back. We were smarter in the situation, and didn't allow them to come back.

-After all of the campaigning, if we had lost Saturday night, and Tech played in the Big 12 Championship and won, where's your argument?

The same situation would have occurred to us is Tech had lost to Baylor. We would have absolutely no argument. Game over, we're done.


To end my rant, I would like to just say that you have no room to say that we are LESS deserving than you. We are at the very least JUST AS deserving as you.

You have a case for yourself too, but when the story unfolded, rather than handle it with class and dignity, the majority of your fans did not.

You guys argued a factor that did not matter. At all. Period.

[LesNessman]

Wouldn't it be cool if there was a tiebreaker next year with new rules demanded by texass that caused them to lose the title shot to us again??!!

Was thinking the same thing.

Not only cool, it would be absolutely so sweet...

[Knippz]

"Texas beat Oklahoma but got the shaft" - Jason Whitlock, Kansas City Star

"Oklahoma has no business in the No. 2 slot in this week's BCS rankings" - Bryan Burwell, St. Louis Dispatch

"The ACC and SEC tiebreaking systems would have favored Texas. Both are more logical because the top two slots are decided by head-to-head competition." - Richard Justice, Houston Chronicle

Wow, those poor, poor Texas Longhorns. All the evidence indicates that Texas, not OU, deserved to go to the Big 12 championship.

Sorry, it was tough to get through those two sentences out without suffering a stroke from too much laughter. Not a single one of the above columnists uses reasonable criteria or facts to support their opinions. But that's okay because, as I've established previously, journalism today rarely involves facts, statistics, logic, or reason. Everyone has an agenda, and they simply state their agenda and use random sentences that "sound good" as their support for their argument.

This is my platform for using logic to determine why Texas has no leg to stand on. I'll destroy the arguments one-by-one.

1. Texas "settled it on the field" - I'm sorry, Texas lost the right to use this argument the moment they allowed Crabtree to score that final TD. Furthermore, OU and Texas Tech can't use that argument either. There is no "settling it on the field" if you have a loss in a three-way tie.

2. Texas beat OU "head-to-head" - ...and Texas Tech beat Texas head-to-head, and OU beat Texas head-to-head. Let's break this down. The 1st tiebreaker is head-to-head results. Hmmm....that doesn't decide the winner, so we have to move on to the 2nd tiebreaker....and the 3rd tiebreaker....and the 4th tiebreaker....and yes, a 5th tiebreaker. Since we've had to move on to the 5th tiebreaker, the 1st tiebreaker is completly irrelevant. There is NO circumstance where head-to-head matters anymore. You can't use the 1st tiebreaker TWICE just to send your favorite team to the championship game.

3. Texas Tech lost by 44 to OU, so they should be ruled out of the conversation completely. - So, let me get this straight - OU shot itself in the foot because they WON BY TOO MANY POINTS? You actually mean to tell me that if OU had let Texas Tech hang around for 4 quarters and pull away in the last couple of minutes by a couple TDs, OU would have had a STRONGER case for winning the conference? Just another case of morons using an absurd argument to try and enhance an agenda. The sad part is all the idiots who view this as a reasonable argument.

4. The SEC and ACC systems are better. - Why? Because they're different? Both systems use the BCS, which apparently is the big flaw in the Big 12 system. Yet for some reason these same people who rail on the BCS as a selector, think that it's MORE reasonable as an eliminator. Let's examine this logically. If you're the Big 12, and you have 3 highly ranked teams all competing for the BCS national championship, who would you rather send to the Big 12 championship to state their case for being in the top two? All things being equal (as they are, because again, this is the 5th tiebreaker), the Big 12 elected to send the top BCS ranked team to the conference championship, so that they have a greater chance at sending a team to the BCS championship! What a novel idea! Notoriety and publicity for the Big 12, and also the potential to send TWO teams into the BCS, thus generating MORE MONEY for the CONFERENCE. Oh the HUMANITY! Do you really think it's WISE for the Big 12 to change that system, just because Mack Brown is a legendary whiner?

5. Texas won at a "neutral" site. - This argument gets me in trouble with the OU faithful, so I'll start off by saying that I love the Cotton Bowl and the whole Red River Rivalry scene. It's one of college football's greatest traditions, and it's a rarity to have a rivalry series that is so competitive nearly every year. I don't want that changed at all.

But here's the rub: Illinois and Missouri in St. Louis is neutral. Missouri and Kansas at Arrowhead is neutral. OU in Dallas is NOT neutral. Sure, it's not Austin, and UT would have a much greater advantage in Austin. But OU never plays in Oklahoma in this series. As usual, there are statistics and facts to back up my opinions, so here is my reasoning.

OU has an overall record of 789-296-53 since inception (1895) for a 72% win percentage.
UT has an overall record of 827-316-33 since inception (1893) for a 72% win percentage.
However, UT has a 47-36-4 advantage in Dallas, for a 57% winning percentage.

If Dallas were truly neutral, that percentage in Dallas would be much closer to 50%. So, every time OU steps onto the field at the Cotton Bowl, with all else being equal (coaching, talent, etc.), they face a 57% chance of losing that game. Why? My guess is that while the seats are split between the two teams, and while the game is nearly halfway between the campuses, the environment as a whole still supports Texas. No Oklahoman has any reason to visit the Texas State Fair, aside from attending that game. The entire environment is dominated by Texans, so that provides a moderate advantage for the University of Texas.

While I support the game being in Dallas, I think it's entirely unreasonable to suggest that Dallas is a "neutral" playing field. The statistics clearly support that opinion.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So, we've established that all things are indeed equal in the 3-way tie, and that UT has no legitimate argument for saying they were "shafted". Who, then, SHOULD go the Big 12 championship game? Isn't this EXACTLY what the BCS was created for - to decide which team is the better team among similar teams? Maybe it's not the perfect way to decide a conference champion, but can you REALLY think of anything better that doesn't hold a heavy amount of bias to it? Let's try to break this down reasonably.

Human voting - so we've discovered that human voters are influenced heavily by subjective factors. Never mind that OU held a pretty decent lead in the human polls prior to last week. Mack's politicking, and the ESPN media blitz against OU did significant damage to OU's status in the human polls. After holding that reasonable lead, and despite beating a strong ranked team on the road and with the Longhorns scoring 3 TDs in the 4th quarter to accumulate "style" points at home against a hapless Texas A&M squad, the Sooners lost enough votes to sway the human polls in favor of UT. The two polls combined into essentially what amounts to a tie.

A heavy emphasis was placed on "style" points during this race. If there is one thing that the Sooners have, it is style...particularly on offense. OU is on pace to shatter the modern scoring record. OU has averaged over 60 points per game in the last 4 games, 2 of those coming against highly ranked teams. Oklahoma also faced a moderately tough non-conference schedule, defeating ranked TCU and Cincinnati easily. OU has a 4-1 record against top 25 teams. OU also has the nation's 3rd most significant road win of the season. OU has outscored its opponents on an average of 53 to 25.

UT has a good defense, and Colt McCoy. Honestly, no player means more to his team than McCoy, so he has a legitimate claim for the Heisman. He's been phenomenal. UT is 3-1 against top 25 teams, yet has no significant road wins. They've outscored their opponents by an average 44 to 19.

Just for kicks, Texas Tech is 2-1 against top 25 competition, with no significant road wins. They've outscored their opponents by an average of 45 to 26.

A good portion of the human vote took these "style" points into consideration, but not enough. OU is the clear favorite when it comes to "style" points here. Mack Brown's incessant whining, the UT nation's groundswell of activity, and the ESPN war on OU clearly made a difference...though not quite enough to push their agenda to full fruition. However, there is still one week for them to mount their attack, and the media cretins are pushing their agenda in full force this week, as the comments at the top of this article indicate.

Computer polls - Here it is simple. Oklahoma faced a tougher schedule. Games against TCU, Cincinnati, and Nebraska trumped UT's games against Missouri and Colorado. Oklahoma also faced OSU on the road, which the computers considered. Here, the only unbiased portion of the BCS was unaffected by all the whining, and rightfully placed OU in front of Texas.

Texas, you don't have a leg to stand on. You don't have a legitimate argument to say that you were "shafted" by the system. And the media needs to just shut up and REPORT the news, not invent it.

http://sportsmediawar.blogspot.com/2008/12/bcs-and-big-12-south.html