The Fallacy of the pro-Horn argument

[Leroy Lizard]

I have seen a lot of griping about the Big XII tiebreaker that left OU going to the CCG. Some of the griping is legitimate. Some doesn't make sense. For example:


The lessons are a), lose early; and b) if you must beat a top-five team, don't lose afterward.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=maisel_ivan&id=3735638

Uhhhh, those who would be so biased voted in favor of UT, not OU. The computers, who couldn't care less when the games were played, are the ones to "blame" for OU getting the nod.

The computers are unbiased and completely objective. They were put in place because some worried that humans could be swayed by shameless lobbying by coaches. If anyone is to blame, it is the coaches like Mack Brown (remember his campaign against Cal?)

[Sabanball]

No conference should allow an outside entity or force to determine who goes to it's championship game. By definition it doesn't make any sense. You guys just happen to be the beneficiary of it this time, but I wonder what you all would be saying if the shoe was on the other foot?

My guess is this rule gets changed in the off season and your tie breaker will resemble the one we have in the SEC going forward after this season.

Good luck against Mizzou.

RTR/ Boomer Sooner

[BoulderSooner79]

I totally agree, Sabanball, all the conference tie breakers should be in control of the conference and not outside voters. I fully expect the rule to be changed before next season (and then never to be used in our lifetime :P ). I'd rather see point differentials then this non-sense which encourages political campaigning. And I don't blame Mack Brown for trying nor do I fault Stoops for declining in some cases. I do have problems with ABC/ESPN lobbying and I am totally perplexed at their motivations.

[TXBOOMER]

Whorns controlled their own destiny and lost it on the football field in Lubbock. We have controlled their destiny and OUrs for three weeks and it worked out in our favor. They blew it on the field and we took it back on the field. That is the fact. In any sport in a round robin with every one beating and getting beat by everyone you gotta go to a tiebraker if there is not a playoff. Whine ALL DAY! It isn't gonna change anything. If we lose against Tech or OSU, Tech would be playing for the Big 12 not texass.

[TWChad]

No conference should allow an outside entity or force to determine who goes to it's championship game. By definition it doesn't make any sense.

While many might agree with this logic, I fail to see how the SEC tie-breaker doesn't produce a different result by using the same "BCS system".


SEC Divisional Tie-Breaker:
B. THREE (OR MORE) TEAM TIE
The Southeastern Conference tiebreaker says that in the event of a three-way tie, the team that is rated the highest will be the division champion unless it lost to the second-highest rated team, and that team is within five places in the BCS standings.

If in place for the BIG XII this year the outcome would indeed be different, putting Texas in the CCG. However the BCS standings would still be used to determine this scenario as well.
Which brings up the point of why the computers were put in place to begin with, as LLizard said, to be unbiased and objective.

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the idea that OU in the human element of the equation lost ground to Texas from last weeks polls (11-23) after defeating a 12th ranked team. While Texas jumps up, as well as Florida for winning against lesser (a lot more so in Texas' case) opponents. While the whole system devoid of a playoff may not be ideal in any scenario, I fail to see how this system didn't produce results in which it was designed for.

[TWChad]

-double post-

[cheezyq]

The funniest part of the Whorns argument is that the BCS being the 5th tiebreaker WORKS MORE IN THEIR FAVOR than any other standard tiebreaker. If we go to point differential among common opponents, or records of uncommon opponents or any other standard tiebreaker, OU wins hands down and UT has zero argument. With the BCS as the 5th tiebreaker, at least they got their opportunity to whine and it actually make a difference.

[soonermeteor]

Why does everyone automatically assume we need the SEC tiebreaker? Just because its the one that would have favored Texas? I personally think its the worst idea. You have other teams ranked in between the three of us. When tech lost, they had an obligatory 5 or so ranking drop. Are they really worse then USC or Penn State though? Why should the ranking of USC and Penn state determine anything in another conference?

[Leroy Lizard]

Why does everyone automatically assume we need the SEC tiebreaker? Just because its the one that would have favored Texas?

But that's why... because it favors Texas. Do you really think that those who are upset with OU's selection are going to use an example that sends OU to the CCG?

I think many of you are missing the point: UT is staying home because of the computers, not the human pollsters. All this talk about "style points" and "running up score" and "winning late" is BS, because the computers don't care about those things.

If UT fans are upset, they should figure out what it was that drove the computers to choose OU. THAT is what they should be complaining about.

[Jacie]

No (okay, only 99.99% of em) horn fan will ever admit to the fallacy of their argument in the three-way tie, who-goes-to-the-Big XII-CCG dilemma.

The problem is the horn fans have and continue to be arrogant, self-centered SOB's, and as concerns this debate, are myopic and after Sunday, hysterical over it.

Forget anything resembling reason when discussing this with them. In fact, don't plan on having discourse in any form as all the pro-Texas people are going to do is shout over and over, 45-35 . . . we beat you . . . 45-35 . . . we beat you . . .

It is sad that they don't recognize whom or (in the case of the BCS computers) what they should be arguing with since it definitely isn't us Sooners.

All Oklahoma can do is play the games and see where the BCS rankings put OUr team after all is said and done.

Texas fans = crybabies

[stoopified]

Crying time in Austin,gotta love it.