Ridiculous logic

[boomersooner2001]

In the tiebreaker triangle, Longhorns have the edge
BCS MESS Where’s Solomon when you need him?

Comments BY Berry Tramel
Published: November 27, 2008


"I’m with everyone else. I can’t think of a better way to break college football’s Bermuda triangle than the BCS rankings.

The Big 12 South’s three-way tie is a conundrum fit for Solomon. Cut the baby three ways.

But the BCS is inadequate, too, for a simple reason.

The best solution for a three-way tie is within the confines of the triangle.

And in that context, Texas clearly deserves the edge. Not because the Longhorns beat OU, but because of where the Longhorns beat OU.

In the triangle, Texas had to go to Lubbock, Texas Tech had to go Norman and OU didn’t have to go to Austin. Oklahoma-Texas was played on a neutral field.

In the triangle, the Sooners didn’t have a road game and the Longhorns didn’t have a home game. That’s a major advantage for the Sooners and a major disadvantage for the Longhorns.

But the tiebreaker — the BCS — doesn’t live within the triangle. The BCS is the full season’s body of work, and in the BCS, OU clearly has the advantage.

The Sooners played the tougher schedule. Their non-conference victims include TCU and Cincinnati, foes currently ranked 14 and 16 in the BCS.

Neither Texas nor Tech played a non-conference opponent that would be in the BCS top 40, if the rankings went that deep.

So clearly, the Sooners are most deserving of a spot in the BCS championship game. But the Longhorns are most deserving of a spot in the Big 12 title game.

And in the event of the triangle, it’s the national-championship formula that will determine the conference-championship representative.

Where’s Solomon when you need him?"



I'm so sick of hearing how saxet won on a neutral field. That's like saying playing LSU in the Sugar Bowl is a neutral field. Now if the game was played in Arkansas, that would be a neutral field.

But regardless of where they played, there were so many factors that the media seems to not want to remember, which allowed UT to skate by. Let's think back for a second. If OU doesn't lose their defensive captain, or Robinson's INT gets reviewed, OR the officials don't give Mccoy an academy award, (by the way saxet got 10 points off of those two penalties), OU wins that game easily. It's not talked about either, how OU dominated for 3 qtrs.

So what OU didn't have a tough road game until this week. So OU gets penalized for something they have no control over?

No one seems to want to remember either how UT barely got by OSU on their home field, or how Tech dominated for 3 1/2 qtrs. The media bias is absolutely ridiculous.

Fact is, OU IS hands down the best team in the Big XII. And the fact that UT is paying to have a banner flown over the game with the score proves that they know it too.

BOOMER SOONER!

Hope everyone has a Happy Thanksgiving!

[hobbes2702]

That was as neutral of a field as it gets. The fans are split right down the middle. And about injuries. They happen. If Texas didn't lose Quan Cosby and Chykie Brown (our best coverage corner) then we don't lose to Tech. Injuries happen. Yall lost plain and simple

[SOONERnTx]

That was as neutral of a field as it gets. The fans are split right down the middle. And about injuries. They happen. If Texas didn't lose Quan Cosby and Chykie Brown (our best coverage corner) then we don't lose to Tech. Injuries happen. Yall lost plain and simple

I forgot we lost that game, maybe you should fly a banner so i can remember!

[hobbes2702]

My personal opinion is if OU makes it then that is what happens. We blew it against Tech. But to complain about the things he is complaining about are stupid.

[okiewaker]

You must not know Tramels style. If you did you would have read through it and chuckled.

[boomersooner2001]

My personal opinion is if OU makes it then that is what happens. We blew it against Tech. But to complain about the things he is complaining about are stupid.

I'm not really complaining all that much, honestly I hate putting excuses to why a football game is lost. All I was trying to say is that if there's going to be more weight put on UT's win because it was on a neutral field, rather than it's loss because it was at Tech, then those factors should also be mentioned, IMO.

Regardless of those factors, OU still should have taken care of business. If they would have, then we wouldn't even be having this discussion. My whole point actually was that the reasoning of "a neutral field" shouldn't even be figured into the debate. A win is a win, and a loss is a loss.

AND, dismantling the #2 team in the country by a 65-21 margin should be included in the debate along with this....

#1 OU loses to #5 UT by 10
#2 UT loses to #7 T.Tech by 6
#2 T. Tech loses to #5 OU by 44

[Rogue]

I think uterus has as legit an argument as we do at this point.

[OUHOMER]

I think uterus has as legit an argument as we do at this point.

I agree, neutral field vs home should be worth a few points. But with a three way tie, how else would you pick your South Champion?

What if it wasn't OU or tx ( I believe the only teams this year that played on a neutral field). What if it were Baylor, TT and A&M 3 way tie. How would you select a winner. You could use the coaches poll, Ap poll, or BCS. I think the BCS would be/is the fairest way to pick a winner.

[Rogue]

Well, it's in the conference's best financial interest to do it that way.

[okiewaker]

I agree it's all crazy logic, but in no way in Hell am I gonna make an argument for the ugly like some of you have. Y'all carry on with this argument. :pop:

[Rogue]

Oh, I'm not making an argument for them.
Just saying both teams have a legit claim at this point and I'm glad the Big XII is, once again, making a mockery of the BCS.

[jwlynn64]

Oh, I'm not making an argument for them.
Just saying both teams have a legit claim at this point and I'm glad the Big XII is, once again, making a mockery of the BCS.

I guess that you would like it better if it went back to the way it was?

Until someone can come up with a playoff that doesn't alienate the boosters of the teams involved (several away games that most of the fans cannot attend) then I don't see it ever happening.

[okiewaker]

My positon is, for the most part, the BCS has been pretty good to OU. Until that changes, I will reserve my b*tchi*g for a later date.

[tulsaoilerfan]

That was as neutral of a field as it gets. The fans are split right down the middle. And about injuries. They happen. If Texas didn't lose Quan Cosby and Chykie Brown (our best coverage corner) then we don't lose to Tech. Injuries happen. Yall lost plain and simple

"They say it's played at a neutral site, but everytime i look at the map Dallas is in Texas" -Barry Switzer

[Rogue]

I guess that you would like it better if it went back to the way it was?


Not sure how you got that out of what I wrote. :confused:

[Rogue]

Until someone can come up with a playoff that doesn't alienate the boosters of the teams involved (several away games that most of the fans cannot attend) then I don't see it ever happening.

I also don't see this as the reason a playoff isn't supported.
It's $$ for the conferences and advertising revenue for the 25 or so Bowl Games that outweighs having a playoff. It's certainly NOT about the fans, the majority of whom support a playoff.

Every NCAA Basketball tournament game is sold out. Even Hofstra vs. East Popcorn State. Football playoff games would sell out too.

[jwlynn64]

How many football games can a team play in a weekend? My guess is not as many as a basketball team can play.

Last time I checked, basketball tournament tickets are sold by the day in the early part of the tournament. Should they do that for the football games as well since you want to compare the basketball tournament to football.

Also, how many schools support their athletic department from basketball revenues?

As for selling out the games, I'm sure they would be. The only difference is who are going to the games. If you award the game to the higher ranked team in the game, the lower ranked team (as decided by a system that is probably going to be assigned by something that looks very much like the BCS now) might not ever get a home game if they keep winning.

If you try to make it a neutral site, how many bowl game weekends can you afford?

Additionally, the revenue generated by the NCAA tournament is collected by the NCAA. The revenue generated by the bowls goes directly to the conferences. How many schools are going to vote to let the NCAA get its hands on the money?

It is OK to want a playoff but please don't come on here and try to use basketball as an example of how it can be done.

[Rogue]

I'm no longer wondering if you have any idea what you're talking about.

[Jacie]

Texas fans = crybabies

[GrapevineSooner]

Well if the roles were reversed, we'd have some moron putting up a website, distributing signs with the final score, etc.

I'd still think they were being a d-bag, because it's not that simple to break the kind of three way tie that will need to break should form hold this weekend.

Yes, Horn fans, had you not lost Cosby against Tech, you probably would have won that night. Will you also extend us the same courtesy when Ryan Reynolds went out?

Yes, it was a neutral field while Texas' loss to Tech was on the road and we won at home. You still can't say for certain that Texas would have beaten Tech if that game was at home. Remember, you almost lost to Okie State at DKR.

Fact is, Texas win over OU, Tech's win over Texas, and OU's win over Texas Tech canceled each other out.

If you're going to make the case for your team, find some other argument besides head to head.

[Sooner Schemer]

That was as neutral of a field as it gets. The fans are split right down the middle. And about injuries. They happen. If Texas didn't lose Quan Cosby and Chykie Brown (our best coverage corner) then we don't lose to Tech. Injuries happen. Yall lost plain and simple
I've never seen an official from NORMAN calling that game.
Or an official who happens to be related to a former OU head coach.

[ARW3]

So what if it was neutral?

Texas got lucky. We play again and they lose. Big.

[GreaterState]

Yes, Horn fans, had you not lost Cosby against Tech, you probably would have won that night. Will you also extend us the same courtesy when Ryan Reynolds went out?

Texas scored on Ryan Reynolds as easily as they do your collective sister. Twenty points in the half he was in, 25 the other, passing into his zone starting from the second pass from scrimmage. He's not the second coming of Lawrence Taylor, he is not why you lost, and still you LOST, good DAY sir.

[GreaterState]

Texas got lucky. We play again and they lose. Big.

The cry of the defeated sooner -- usually as they walk down from the Cotton Bowl with their tail between their legs.

Nervous about Saturday yet?

[JLEW1818]

If it's a 3 way tie its a 3 way tie, end of storY, throw it all out and let the voters decide who the best team is.... F U CK

WAHHHHH tech is ranked 7th, they should not be in consideration wahhhh , YOU LOST TO THE **** HEADS

[def_lazer_fc]

that field was neutral. anyone who says differently is either retarded, or just blatantly ignoring the facts. split 50-50. thats whats great about that game. who cares what state it was in. almost virtually the same distance from each school too.

that said, the victory against tech is the kind of victory that turns heads. yes, texas beat us. yes, i truly believe injuries played a big part in that. but the fact that ou put up such a huge victory on a national stage so late in the season, i think they should play for the championship. yeah, home field advantage plays some sort of a part, but when you beat the #2 team in the nation by 44 or whatever, thats pretty definitive. if texas had taken care of business they wouldn't even need to be bitching right now. the fact that they didn't, and they are, speaks volumes. they wanna talk about the score of the ou game all day long but would like the general public to completely forget the tech game. if every game matters, then every game matters.

just the thought that texas had to root for us to win that game, and we ended up winning a little too convincingly is hilarious. boomer!

[GrapevineSooner]

The locations of the common games involved between Texas, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma would only factor into this equation if the scores were similar.

OU-Texas was in doubt until Texas score their final TD of the day to put the game away at 45-35.

Texas-Texas Tech was in doubt until the kickoff after Crabtree's TD.

OU-Texas Tech was in doubt for about the first 20 minutes of the contest.

Now had the Tech-Texas game been played in Austin, it's entirely possible that Texas wins that game. But we'll never know.

We'll also never know if playing in front of their home crowd on the High Plains would have allowed Tech the luxury of getting their composure back and getting back in the game. And possibly winning the game. I'd like to think OU playing in Stillwater on Saturday night will be a good barometer towards answering that question.

But at least it's a better argument than, '45-35, nuff said.'

[OUTromBoNado]

I think uterus has as legit an argument as we do at this point.

I'll probably get negged for this, but I agree with you. As much as I want to see OU play for a third straight Big 12 title, if UT makes it in over us, I'll be disappointed, but I won't feel like we got robbed. That's just being realistic. They did beat us. Hands down. It's not like we got screwed in the RRS like we did at Oregon or Tech.

Coming up with a pick out of a three-way tie is like kissing your sister. It just sucks that because we have so many awesome teams in the same division, at least one, if not two teams, are probably going to wind up getting hosed. That's the reality of college football. But at the same time, how awesome has it been for the Big 12 South to host the premier game of the week for almost every week since the RRS?

[jagwelborn]

In a 3 way tie, why not compare the combined scores of each team against the other two teams? Here's what you get...

OU vs UT & TT
100 to 66

UT vs OU & TT
78 to 74

TT vs OU & UT
60 to 98

[Crucifax Autumn]

Seems reasonable to me.

[SoonerShark]

We blew it against Tech.

Tech led UT nearly the entire game. Tech nearly blew it, not UT, then frontier justice prevailed and the bad guy was taken down in the final reel. The Earps took down the Dalton Gang. Yee haw, Brother Sucker!

UT had no excuse. The best team won. No 9 yard first and ten was awarded to Tech. No Colt McCoy was knocked out in the first quarter. Tech took UT's best and won. I envy UT. OU does not know what it feels like to deserve to lose in Lubbock. Write us a book.

[Leroy Lizard]

I'll probably get negged for this, but I agree with you. As much as I want to see OU play for a third straight Big 12 title, if UT makes it in over us, I'll be disappointed, but I won't feel like we got robbed. That's just being realistic. They did beat us. Hands down. It's not like we got screwed in the RRS like we did at Oregon or Tech.

I tend to agree. If OU doesn't go, it's the team's own fault.

Horns are not nearly as fair-minded, because they swim in the sea of hypocrisy. They want head-to-head to be the end-all, be-all, just not when it comes to Tech.

If OU loses, Texas fans will do everything they can to make head-to-head a non-factor. "Tech isn't as worthy of playing for the national title as we are, not because they beat us, but because of how they fared against some other team. You can't just look at head-to-head, you have consider the WHOLE season."

[SoonerinSouthlake]

Well if the roles were reversed, we'd have some moron putting up a website, distributing signs with the final score, etc.

I'd still think they were being a d-bag, because it's not that simple to break the kind of three way tie that will need to break should form hold this weekend.

Yes, Horn fans, had you not lost Cosby against Tech, you probably would have won that night. Will you also extend us the same courtesy when Ryan Reynolds went out?

Yes, it was a neutral field while Texas' loss to Tech was on the road and we won at home. You still can't say for certain that Texas would have beaten Tech if that game was at home. Remember, you almost lost to Okie State at DKR.

Fact is, Texas win over OU, Tech's win over Texas, and OU's win over Texas Tech canceled each other out.

If you're going to make the case for your team, find some other argument besides head to head.

A---FREAKING--MEN

Grape..if you will create a Facebook group with this on it I will be the first to join

[SoonerinSouthlake]

Texas scored on Ryan Reynolds as easily as they do your collective sister. Twenty points in the half he was in, 25 the other, passing into his zone starting from the second pass from scrimmage. He's not the second coming of Lawrence Taylor, he is not why you lost, and still you LOST, good DAY sir.

then lets not also pretend Q Cosby is the second coming of Jerry Rice. He's not the reason you lost, nor is it the "Miracle" catch at the end of the game by Crabtree. Its the pounding you took from Tech in the first 3 quarters. Either way, you LOST, up YOURS sir.

By the way, the last score wasnt much of a Miracle....they pounded the ball down field as easily as they did your Mother (you started it). And Crabtrees catch was really a pretty simple one. Lets not call your dbacks inability make gimmie interception, or put a hand on Crabtree to push him out a sign from God. Its just means your dbacks sucked that night.

[jwlynn64]

Texas scored on Ryan Reynolds as easily as they do your collective sister. Twenty points in the half he was in, 25 the other, passing into his zone starting from the second pass from scrimmage. He's not the second coming of Lawrence Taylor, he is not why you lost, and still you LOST, good DAY sir.

I believe they scored 13 points against OUr D in the first half. Please actually watch the game you're talking smack about.

[SoonerBBall]

Texas scored on Ryan Reynolds as easily as they do your collective sister. Twenty points in the half he was in, 25 the other, passing into his zone starting from the second pass from scrimmage. He's not the second coming of Lawrence Taylor, he is not why you lost, and still you LOST, good DAY sir.

How can you not even remember that matters so much to you and your fanbase?

You scored 13 points on our defense in the first half, not 20. A kick-off return is not scored against our defense.

You also had -3 rushing yards in the first half, you know, before Reynolds went down.

So yes, you beat us, but to act like you were thrashing us and that the game was the same before and after Reynolds went down is just ignorant. Nothing new for a horn, though, eh?

[bri]

Texas scored on Ryan Reynolds as easily as they do your collective sister. Twenty points in the half he was in, 25 the other, passing into his zone starting from the second pass from scrimmage. He's not the second coming of Lawrence Taylor, he is not why you lost, and still you LOST, good DAY sir.

Hey, don't forget, the Big 12 title game is on ABC. Pass it along to your team, as I'm sure they'll be looking for something to do that night.

[bri]

Nervous about Saturday yet?

Not nearly as nervous as you and your lot are, Horn.

That reminds me, shouldn't you be standing on a street corner somewhere with your "45-35" sandwich sign, desperately searching for anyone with a vote outside of your little collective that thinks one head-to-head result matters in a three-way tie?

[cheezyq]

That was as neutral of a field as it gets. The fans are split right down the middle. And about injuries. They happen. If Texas didn't lose Quan Cosby and Chykie Brown (our best coverage corner) then we don't lose to Tech. Injuries happen. Yall lost plain and simple

Nope, not as neutral as it gets. MU and KU playing at Arrowhead is neutral. MU and Illinois in St. Louis is neutral. If OU were to play OSU in Tulsa, that might be neutral. OU/TX in Texas is not neutral. For example:

OU has an overall record of 789-296-53 since inception (1895) for a 72% win percentage.
UT has an overall record of 827-316-33 since inception (1893) for a 72% win percentage.
However, UT has a 47-36-4 advantage in Dallas overall.

How about since 1945?
OU has an overall record of 550-169-13 since 1945 for a 76% win percentage.
UT has an overall record of 519-197-11 since 1945 for a 72% win percentage.
However, UT has a 32-29-3 advantage in Dallas since 1945.

If it were truly a neutral field, the quality of the teams should be reflected in the series record. It clearly is not. Games at the Cotton Bowl may not be as distinct an advantage as a game in Austin. But nevertheless it's an advantage, as the UT fans at the State Fair overwhelmingly outnumber the OU fans. No Oklahoman would attend the Texas State Fair if it weren't for the game. It's remarkable that OU has the record that it does, given that fact.

[cheezyq]

Texas scored on Ryan Reynolds as easily as they do your collective sister. Twenty points in the half he was in, 25 the other, passing into his zone starting from the second pass from scrimmage. He's not the second coming of Lawrence Taylor, he is not why you lost, and still you LOST, good DAY sir.

Think again. RR was in halfway through the 3rd before he came out. AND, 7 of those 20 points in the first half were off kick coverage. Idiots.

You whorns can't think past the end of your nose. It's just like the 45-35 argument. You take one thing that benefits you and hope that it holds up against all the rest of the evidence that says otherwise.

[SoonerBBall]

Nope, not as neutral as it gets. MU and KU playing at Arrowhead is neutral. MU and Illinois in St. Louis is neutral. If OU were to play OSU in Tulsa, that might be neutral. OU/TX in Texas is not neutral. For example:

OU has an overall record of 789-296-53 since inception (1895) for a 72% win percentage.
UT has an overall record of 827-316-33 since inception (1893) for a 72% win percentage.
However, UT has a 47-36-4 advantage in Dallas overall.

How about since 1945?
OU has an overall record of 550-169-13 since 1945 for a 76% win percentage.
UT has an overall record of 519-197-11 since 1945 for a 72% win percentage.
However, UT has a 32-29-3 advantage in Dallas since 1945.

If it were truly a neutral field, the quality of the teams should be reflected in the series record. It clearly is not. Games at the Cotton Bowl may not be as distinct an advantage as a game in Austin. But nevertheless it's an advantage, as the UT fans at the State Fair overwhelmingly outnumber the OU fans. No Oklahoman would attend the Texas State Fair if it weren't for the game. It's remarkable that OU has the record that it does, given that fact.

I hate the horns as much as anybody, but please don't do this. The sample size for games against the horns is not nearly large enough to allow the win percentage be comparable to our total win percentage. That is just bad math.

[cheezyq]

I hate the horns as much as anybody, but please don't do this. The sample size for games against the horns is not nearly large enough to allow the win percentage be comparable to our total win percentage. That is just bad math.

Hey, I'm not saying we should move it from the Cotton Bowl. I like the environment and think that it's cool. But it does bear mentioning. The advantage isn't HUGE, but it is definitely statistically significant.