How much of the electorate is unconvinceable?

[Frozen Sooner]

Been thinking a lot about this one, particularly in light of the Senate race up here.

How much of the electorate do you think would vote for their parties' candidate no matter WHAT the circumstance?

How much of the electorate is actually in play in any given election? People call themselves "independents" but the vast majority of the "independents" I meet have a clear bias for or against a particular party.

Personally, I think you've probably got about 35% of the electorate who'd vote for a turnip if it had a D after the name, about 30% who'd vote for a baby-raping zombie with an R after the name, about 10% who'd never vote for a D no matter what, and about 5% who'd never vote for an R no matter what, so you've got about 20% of the electorate actually "in play" in a given election.

[Okla-homey]

Been thinking a lot about this one, particularly in light of the Senate race up here.

How much of the electorate do you think would vote for their parties' candidate no matter WHAT the circumstance?

How much of the electorate is actually in play in any given election? People call themselves "independents" but the vast majority of the "independents" I meet have a clear bias for or against a particular party.

Personally, I think you've probably got about 35% of the electorate who'd vote for a turnip if it had a D after the name, about 30% who'd vote for a baby-raping zombie with an R after the name, about 10% who'd never vote for a D no matter what, and about 5% who'd never vote for an R no matter what, so you've got about 20% of the electorate actually "in play" in a given election.

I think you're probably pretty much on the mark. And for the record, I voted for a dem this time. That Keith gal over Sallie Bell for Tulsa county council. I couldn't see voting for a lady who failed at running her business. That, and the Keith lady may be related to me. :D Mama's side of the family are Keith's. Big families and they've been here since before statehood -- in fact, that's how I got my first name.

[Cam]

20% sounds about right.

My wife and I are Independents and our vote was pretty much split down the middle.

[Jerk]

Hey I voted for a Democrat!

Sheriff John Wetzel.

[GottaHavePride]

I voted republican the last two elections (nationally).

This time I voted for Obama and Slattery (trying to unseat Pat Roberts). I kept Tiahrt, though, because I'd rather have conservatives in control of the House (spending bills) - that clearly failed, though Tiahrt did win.

At the local level I voted based purely on the perceived idiocy of the potential candidates, so I got a wacky mix of R & D.

[85Sooner]

My problem is the two party system. I am not a single issue voter so sometimes I have had to vote for someone , not based on my like of their policies but to avoid the policies of the opposition as determined by their Minority/majority status..

[LosAngelesSooner]

I think you might have over done it a bit. I think it's close to 40% in play with 30% die hard partisans on each side, though that's totally just a guess.

I also think that if we ever had a viable third party come into fruition, it would end up hurting the Republican Party more than the Democratic Party because it would pull either the moderate/centrists who tend to err on the side of caution and vote Republican, or the Evangelical Neo-Cons who would NEVER vote Democrat, even if Jesus was their candidate.

[Okla-homey]

I think you might have over done it a bit. I think it's close to 40% in play with 30% die hard partisans on each side, though that's totally just a guess.

I also think that if we ever had a viable third party come into fruition, it would end up hurting the Republican Party more than the Democratic Party because it would pull either the moderate/centrists who tend to err on the side of caution and vote Republican, or the Evangelical Neo-Cons who would NEVER vote Democrat, even if Jesus was their candidate.

But, there are people like my BIL in Ardmore who is a deacon in the Baptist church, is in church every time the doors are unlocked, thinks gheys should be in prison, is anti-abortion, anti-messican, a tee-totaller and doesn't even cuss when he hits his thumb with a hammer. That said, he votes democrat unerringly because he's in a union (CWA) and that's the way his union pappy raised him. Ditto my sister. She's a public school teacher.

My mom and step-dad voted for JSM, deviating from their usual straight-ticket democrat voting, because they still beleive BHO is a Muslim.:rolleyes:

[Rogue]

I bet your figures are close Froze. I also think that the bigger problem is that there are just 2 legit parties. More parties are welcome, as far as I'm concerned.

Think about how much campaign $$ and resources are spend on the roughly 20% (or MAYBE up to 40% according to LAS) of the peeps that may be persuaded.

[LosAngelesSooner]

But, there are people like my BIL in Ardmore who is a deacon in the Baptist church, is in church every time the doors are unlocked, thinks gheys should be in prison, is anti-abortion, anti-messican, a tee-totaller and doesn't even cuss when he hits his thumb with a hammer. That said, he votes democrat unerringly because he's in a union (CWA) and that's the way his union pappy raised him. Ditto my sister. She's a public school teacher.

My mom and step-dad voted for JSM, deviating from their usual straight-ticket democrat voting, because they still beleive BHO is a Muslim.:rolleyes:
Wow.

And I've never understood "straight party" voters. Never.

[Okla-homey]

I bet your figures are close Froze. I also think that the bigger problem is that there are just 2 legit parties. More parties are welcome, as far as I'm concerned.

Think about how much campaign $$ and resources are spend on the roughly 20% (or MAYBE up to 40% according to LAS) of the peeps that may be persuaded.

I'd sure give money and time to a renaissance of the Bull Moose Party.

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/3677/chemistqt9.jpg

[Okla-homey]

Wow.

And I've never understood "straight party" voters. Never.

well, I've given you some examples. Others that come to mind are the black folks I knew in Montgomey AL who referred to the GOP as the RepubliKlan Party.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I'm including them as well. Trust me.

I judge the person, the individual, who is running and their stances on issues.



Also, I wonder how much of the FAILURE of the establishment of a 3rd party hinges on the lack in marketability of the current ones? I mean, the "Green Party?" "Libertarian Party?" "Independent Party?" "American Socialist Party?" Visually, from a Hollywood standpoint, none of them stand up at all to a Donkey and an Elephant.

Your Bull Moose logo alone is more appealing, along with the name, than any of the three that I named above. And that's just from a MARKETING standpoint, issues be damned.

Something to consider, I guess.

[Curly Bill]

I'm suggesting Homey run for POTUS on the resurrected Bull Moose Party ticket. :D

[Okla-homey]

I'm suggesting Homey run for POTUS on the resurrected Bull Moose Party ticket. :D

Hell, the Bull Mooses got TR on Mt Rushmore now didn't they?:D

[Curly Bill]

Hell, the Bull Mooses got TR on Mt Rushmore now didn't they?:D

Yes sir! ....and you could be next. What do ya say? :D

[Frozen Sooner]

Heh. I'm guessing it'll be an interesting day when Homey runs on a pro-union anti-trust pro-environment pro-universal-health-care platform.

[Okla-homey]

Heh. I'm guessing it'll be an interesting day when Homey runs on a pro-union anti-trust pro-environment pro-universal-health-care platform.


How about a strong national defense, reasonable immigration policy, no abortions after the first tri-mester, pro-environment, anti-capital punishment, free trade, pro-guns, flat-tax platform? Cause that's how I roll.

and I oppose universal healthcare because the gubmint only does one thing better than the private sector and that's "killing people and breaking things" (the mission of the United States Air Force.)

[Curly Bill]

How about a strong national defense, reasonable immigration policy, no abortions after the first tri-mester, pro-environment, anti-capital punishment, free trade, pro-guns, flat-tax platform? Cause that's how I roll.

I like me some capital punishment, but I can support you on the rest of it so you got my vote.

[Rogue]

Homey's a conservative progressive.

[Okla-homey]

Homey's a conservative progressive.

No dammit. I'm a BULL MOOSE!

[Rogue]

How about a strong national defense, reasonable immigration policy, no abortions after the first tri-mester, pro-environment, anti-capital punishment, free trade, pro-guns, flat-tax platform? Cause that's how I roll.

and I oppose universal healthcare because the gubmint only does one thing better than the private sector and that's "killing people and breaking things" (the mission of the United States Air Force.)

Add fiscal conservativism and I can go for all of this except I favor universal healthcare.

[Rogue]

No dammit. I'm FULL-a-BULL!
Fixed. ;)

[Okla-homey]

I like me some capital punishment, but I can support you on the rest of it so you got my vote.

Thanks, but I'm practically bald. We haven't elected a bald guy since Ike and he accomplished a fair amount more in his life than I have to this point.

The other thing going against me is I'm an Okie. We make a lot of great entertainers, but we've never made a politician who could compete on the national stage.

[Curly Bill]

Thanks, but I'm practically bald. We haven't elected a bald guy since Ike and he accomplished a fair amount more in his life than I have to this point.

...but compared to Obama you've accomplished a lot.

Of course he can hit the 3-pointer, and he is the Messiah, so he's got that going for him. :D

[Frozen Sooner]

How about a strong national defense, reasonable immigration policy, no abortions after the first tri-mester, pro-environment, anti-capital punishment, free trade, pro-guns, flat-tax platform? Cause that's how I roll.

and I oppose universal healthcare because the gubmint only does one thing better than the private sector and that's "killing people and breaking things" (the mission of the United States Air Force.)

I'm just sayin'. If you aspire to be TR, the man was very much a liberal on a lot of things. :D The guy was pretty hugely in favor of universal health care.

Thought I'd probably be OK with all but the flat tax, so long as you promised to strongly support abortion rights in the first trimester.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Hell, the Bull Mooses got TR on Mt Rushmore now didn't they?:DI think they should add FDR and Ronald Reagan to Mount Rushmore. There's plenty of space.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I'm just sayin'. If you aspire to be TR, the man was very much a liberal on a lot of things. :D The guy was pretty hugely in favor of universal health care.

Thought I'd probably be OK with all but the flat tax, so long as you promised to strongly support abortion rights in the first trimester.No abortions after the first Trimester, but strong abortion rights in within the first and easy access to all forms of birth control.

Capital punishment as an option with a time limit on appeals and a time limit for the penalty to be enforced within.

Universal health care available to all.

Reasonable gun control and background checks.

Lower the drinking age to 18. Decriminalize drug use and legalize marijuana and 'shrooms.

Government stay out of our bedrooms and protect against discrimination, including doing away with all forms of "Marriage" and only issue "Civil Union" licenses.

Everything else I'm with you on. :D

[Frozen Sooner]

I think Homey and I have the same opposition to the death penalty: we have no moral qualms about it, but we find that it's applied so unevenly that it violates equal protection and FAR too many innocent people are sent to death row unjustly.

[Okla-homey]

I think Homey and I have the same opposition to the death penalty: we have no moral qualms about it, but we find that it's applied so unevenly that it violates equal protection and FAR too many innocent people are sent to death row unjustly.


Whether you did the dirty deed or not, the simple fact is, if you can afford to hire a decent lawyer, you can generally avoid the needle. If not, you're prolly going to take the ultimate sleeping pill.

That situation offends my fundamental sense of justice and that's why I oppose the death penalty.

There's that, and we're about the only civilized country left that still kills convicts.

[Vaevictis]

No dammit. I'm a BULL MOOSE!

So, in other words, you're a conservative progressive.

[Okla-homey]

So, in other words, you're a conservative progressive.

that'll work.

[olevetonahill]

Kill the Crooks NOT the babies .

[Mjcpr]

Judging from this board, 100%.

[Vaevictis]

that'll work.

Interesting. Your politics must be very, very different than I thought :D

[yermom]

Whether you did the dirty deed or not, the simple fact is, if you can afford to hire a decent lawyer, you can generally avoid the needle. If not, you're prolly going to take the ultimate sleeping pill.

That situation offends my fundamental sense of justice and that's why I oppose the death penalty.

There's that, and we're about the only civilized country left that still kills convicts.

my two main problems with it:

you can't undo it if someone is wrongly convicted and executed

it costs more money to kill them. let them rot, they are worse off.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Okay, fine. Scrub capital punishment from my list, but add:

~ Balanced budget
~ No nation building
~ Reform the IRS
~ Naitonwide green economy works project to rebuild the electric grid, power generation/transportation and highways.
~ Free ice cream
~ Shrink the derned government

[Chuck Bao]

Okay, fine. Scrub capital punishment from my list, but add:

~ Balanced budget
~ No nation building
~ Reform the IRS
~ Naitonwide green economy works project to rebuild the electric grid, power generation/transportation and highways.
~ Free ice cream
~ Shrink the derned government

Now, if you'd just add tax credits for fried okra and black-eyed peas, I'd vote for you. Of course, there is a little pork in the peas and pork grease in the fried okra. But, who'll notice.

[proud gonzo]

...but compared to Obama you've accomplished a lot.

Of course he can hit the 3-pointer, and he is the Messiah, so he's got that going for him. :D
http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/political-pictures-barack-obama-conjure-fire.jpg

[Rogue]

Weird. As divided as the SO seems, this Bull Moose Progressivism seems to fit many of us that I thought were way apart policy-wise.
Linkage (http://www.answers.com/topic/progressivism-1)

See, I'm just against the gubmint ever killing its citizens so I can't support capital punishment. Several arguments against it, and that's the one I can't choke down. Now, if the family of a brutally violent criminal guns him down on the courthouse steps, I think that's justice. But it is NEVER the gubmint's place to kill its citizens lest we become "subjects" instead. So, regardless of the philosophical twists and turns we take to get there, many of us end up at the same conclusion on that issue.

Social Justice is a big tenet of Progressivism. The Bull Moose party was very much in favor of women's suffrage. (http://americanhistory.about.com/od/politicalparties/p/bull_moose.htm) Wonder where they'd be on gay civil unions? To me, it's a huge discrimination issue. Whether you want to split hairs about the definition of marriage or whatever, I don't understand the resistance to affording gay couples legal rights comparable to us heteros.

According to the 2nd linkage above in my post, these progressives supported an easier method to amending the Constitution. Ima hafta disagree with that or else we'd be amending amendments every few years when the political pendulum swings back and forth. We can (and do) make laws and then repeal them with other laws easily enough. An amendment is a huge deal and shouldn't be taken lightly, IMO.

If this new SO Progressive Bull Moose party an agree on fiscal conservativism, a strong military that is used sparingly, and veterans healthcare, I'm on board so far.


Let's make Teddy proud and start by dedicating a few more National Parks!

[yermom]

you keep using this word, i don't think it means what you think it means

[Rogue]

Which word, "progressive?"

[yermom]

"unconvinceable" :D

[Okla-homey]

To be frank, I think the Bull Moose Party favored women's suffrage because TR understood he'd need the support of wimmens to get some of the more "progressive" stuff done.

A perfect example is the 21st Amendment. If women had still lacked the franchise, there is no way on this Earth that thing could have passed in Congress, let alone ratified by the requisite number of states. Women wanted it because they thought by banning alcohol, they would get beat-up less and their baby daddies would become good and devoted husbands.

Of course, the 21st was a bust, and it was repealled later, but that was that whole unintended consequences thing rearing its head in the form of the rise of organized crime in the form of bootleggers and speak-easies.

That's why I would add to the SO Bull Moose Party platform, a plank to decriminalize pot, and maybe a few other illicit substances as well.

[Rogue]

SO Bull Moose Progressive Platform = Common Sense and Pragmatism

[Okla-homey]

SO Bull Moose Progressive Platform = Common Sense and Pragmatism

dang skippy.

and for the record, I don't have a problem with kiddoes having reasonable access to free healthcare. I'd rather a little kid get to go to the doctor when he's sick than have him hospitalized later at much greater taxpayer expense.

I know, slippery slope, but dammit, sick kids hurt my feelers. Adults OTOH, need to pay.

[soonerscuba]

dang skippy.

and for the record, I don't have a problem with kiddoes having reasonable access to free healthcare. I'd rather a little kid get to go to the doctor when he's sick than have him hospitalized later at much greater taxpayer expense.

I know, slippery slope, but dammit, sick kids hurt my feelers. Adults OTOH, need to pay.I think that this could be soem common ground on which to address the healthcare issue, sure, there outliers, but I think most people could agree that if you are under 18 and don't have access to affordable healthcare, it's not your fault.

Howard Dean implemented this in Vermont while he was governor, I'm not really sure how it worked out though.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

It exists in Oklahoma, doesn't it? Isn't that what Soonercare is?

[Frozen Sooner]

Healthcare for children of families making less than some multiple of the poverty line does exist. Nationwide it's the SCHIP program, though it's known by other names in the various states (ex. Denali Kid Care in Alaska.)

[Okla-homey]

Healthcare for children of families making less than some multiple of the poverty line does exist. Nationwide it's the SCHIP program, though it's known by other names in the various states (ex. Mt.McKinley Kid Care in Alaska.)

fixed it.:D

[LosAngelesSooner]

SO Bull Moose Progressive Platform = Common Sense, Pragmatism & resistance to special interests ESPECIALLY religious ones.I could DEFINITELY sign onto that.

[Okla-homey]

SO Bull Moose Progressive Platform = Common Sense, Pragmatism & resistance to special interests ESPECIALLY religious ones.

...as long as we get to pull the tax-exempt status from churches and mosques that tell their congregants how to vote, or from whom not to vote, or take up collections for candidates.

[Rogue]

...as long as we get to pull the tax-exempt status from churches and mosques that tell their congregants how to vote, or from whom not to vote, or take up collections for candidates.

I agree conceptually, but who's gonna police something like this?

And, how do politicians get around the Hatch Act?

[LosAngelesSooner]

...as long as we get to pull the tax-exempt status from churches and mosques that tell their congregants how to vote, or from whom not to vote, or take up collections for candidates.I'm completely for that, as long as it's PROVABLE (follow the money, video recordings of sermons, etc)

I would also include synagogues, PACs, and all forms of lobbyists from ANY religious group. Our party would need to get back to "Separation of Church and State."

[Okla-homey]

I'm completely for that, as long as it's PROVABLE (follow the money, video recordings of sermons, etc)

I would also include synagogues, PACs, and all forms of lobbyists from ANY religious group. Our party would need to get back to "Separation of Church and State."

as long as we can have non-sectarian prayers and stuff at our meetings, like in Congress and stuff. We'll have to agree that "freedom of religion" doesn't mean "freedom from religion." No proslyetizing allowed though.

In OUr Bull Moose Party, everyone from Baptists to beleivers in the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Ceiling Cat to Muslims, Jews, JW's, MoMos and yes, even atheists and agnostics. All are welcome aboard.

except for Fred Phelps baptists. We'll have to put our big moose foot down on those zipperheads.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

We'll have to agree that "freedom of religion" doesn't mean "freedom from religion."

No finer words on the subject could be said. I haven't seen an state sponsored or established religion, nor has my freedom to practice been infringed.

But I see a lot of religion out there. And that's a GOOD thing.

[LosAngelesSooner]

as long as we can have non-sectarian prayers and stuff at our meetings, like in Congress and stuff. We'll have to agree that "freedom of religion" doesn't mean "freedom from religion." No proslyetizing allowed though.

In OUr Bull Moose Party, everyone from Baptists to beleivers in the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Ceiling Cat to Muslims, Jews, JW's, MoMos and yes, even atheists and agnostics. All are welcome aboard.

except for Fred Phelps baptists. We'll have to put our big moose foot down on those zipperheads.You keep talkin' sexy like that, Homey, and I'm gonna have to write you a check to get your campaign started.

[LosAngelesSooner]

No finer words on the subject could be said. I haven't seen an state sponsored or established religion (though people certainly have tried), nor has my freedom to practice my religion of choice been infringed.

But I see a lot of religion out there. And that CAN BE a good thing, or a bad things, depending on if they can just live their religion in their own lives or if they feel the need to force it upon everyone around them.Fixed.

[Stitch Face]

This thread is more inspiring than Obama.

[Rogue]

We'll have to agree that "freedom of religion" doesn't mean "freedom from religion." No proslyetizing allowed though.



This, to me, IS freedom FROM religion. As you described it, I'm still "in."

Now, what about our next National Parks?

[tommieharris91]

Them bull mooses might just be centered enough for me.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Seriously. I want this to be a reality. Let's make it happen. Let's release the power of this fully operational Sooner Fans website on the rest of the U.S. and win some elections in 2 years. :D

[Okla-homey]

This, to me, IS freedom FROM religion. As you described it, I'm still "in."

Now, what about our next National Parks?

well, I think we need another here in Oklahoma. How about the Ouchita Mountains National Recreation Area. See, we need to take these national forests, and fix it up so folks can have easy access for camping and such. We need to get our kids away from the xBox and into the woods.

I also happen to believe we need to do something significant and substantial to memorialize the Trail of Tears. Prominent interpretive markers, information centers, and campsites folks can use who desire to travel the route. When my Blonde Daughter first drove to Tulsa from school in Lower Alabama -- a trip of about 18 hours by car, she was shocked and amazed to learn Muscogee (Creeks) and Cherokee people that started where she started from had to walk it. Old people, little kids, sick people. All the way to Fort Gibson. Then, they were given an axe and plow and told to root hog or die.

Oh, and its high time we do something to protect and conserve the Arbuckles. They may well be the most significant geological site in OUr state.

As far as stuff goes outside of Oklahoma, I say we just make Montana one enormous National Park. We can let the folks who live there stay, but when they're dead, that's it.;)

[Okla-homey]

You keep talkin' sexy like that, Homey, and I'm gonna have to write you a check to get your campaign started.

Oh I ain't runnin' for nothing but supper. I have far too many youthful indiscretions and public commentary out there that would come back to haunt and doom any campaign.;)

I might make a run at the Okie House though. Will Rogers (or someone equally smart) once said, "state legislatures are full of politicians whose deepest, darkest secrets prevent them from running for higher office.";)

[Rogue]

Good start Homey, we need more parkland here in Appalachia too. Western NC and Northeast TN need some more public land. Srsly.

And how about some nice beach parkland on the gulf?

[Okla-homey]

And how about some nice beach parkland on the gulf?

That stuff is expensive to buy. We're kinda short on cash right now. And the Bull Mooses aren't big on eminent domaining stuff. But that said, if some patriotic beachfront owners wanted to donate some property to be put in federal trust status, in exchange for some tax incentives, we'd listen.

[Rogue]

Well, the pretty ranchland in Western Montana, Western Wyoming (the rest of those states are wasteland), and Idaho would be a good start too.

I agree about the eminent domaining...not good if it can be avoided. With all this bailout property, there's bound to be some good tradin' opportunities. ;)

Let's talk economics, immigration, and defense.

[Okla-homey]

Well, the pretty ranchland in Western Montana, Western Wyoming (the rest of those states are wasteland), and Idaho would be a good start too.

I agree about the eminent domaining...not good if it can be avoided. With all this bailout property, there's bound to be some good tradin' opportunities. ;)

Let's talk economics, immigration, and defense.

1) Immigration: I have long held that there is no way in hell we are going to round up 7 to 10 million people who are here illegally. Non starter. We couldn't support 'em if we did have the desire to build concentration camps. Therefore, lets figure out a way to get 'em on the tax roles.

And let's stop with the stoopid fence crap. That's theater of the highest order. Juan and Juana ain't walking to the border from Guatemala and seeing a new fence saying to themselves, "well, that tears it. Lets go back." The only way physical barriers work is if they are covered by overlapping fires and are augmented by mixed density mine fields. We ain't about to do that either, so WTF we kiddin'? Ourselves?

Now, if a non-cit illegally in this country commits a felony, then they should be tried and if convicted, placed in detention, preferably in a very crappy (but still humane) place and they should do their time, then promptly be deported...but only after tattooing a big "F" for felon on their forehead.:D That way we can spot 'em easier if they sneak back in.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Oh I ain't runnin' for nothing but supper. I have far too many youthful indiscretions and public commentary out there that would come back to haunt and doom any campaign.;)

I might make a run at the Okie House though. Will Rogers (or someone equally smart) once said, "state legislatures are full of politicians whose deepest, darkest secrets prevent them from running for higher office.";)Dude. Just write a book about it. Admit it all. Discuss how those mistakes helped shape you into the good God Fearin', Country Lovin', law abiding citizen who you are today and publish it NOW.

Then wait a year or two before you run.

I've heard this approach has worked for some successful politicians lately. ;)

[LosAngelesSooner]

1) Immigration: I have long held that there is no way in hell we are going to round up 7 to 10 million people who are here illegally. Non starter. We couldn't support 'em if we did have the desire to build concentration camps. Therefore, lets figure out a way to get 'em on the tax roles.

And let's stop with the stoopid fence crap. That's theater of the highest order. Juan and Juana ain't walking to the border from Guatemala and seeing a new fence saying to themselves, "well, that tears it. Lets go back." The only way physical barriers work is if they are covered by overlapping fires and are augmented by mixed density mine fields. We ain't about to do that either, so WTF we kiddin'? Ourselves?

Now, if a non-cit illegally in this country commits a felony, then they should be tried and if convicted, placed in detention, preferably in a very crappy (but still humane) place and they should do their time, then promptly be deported...but only after tattooing a big "F" for felon on their forehead.:DAnd again you make sense and take a position I could support.

How would you provide a path to citizenship for the ones who are already here? Qualifications? Requirements?

[tommieharris91]

1) Immigration: I have long held that there is no way in hell we are going to round up 7 to 10 million people who are here illegally. Non starter. We couldn't support 'em if we did have the desire to build concentration camps. Therefore, lets figure out a way to get 'em on the tax roles.

And let's stop with the stoopid fence crap. That's theater of the highest order. Juan and Juana ain't walking to the border from Guatemala and seeing a new fence saying to themselves, "well, that tears it. Lets go back." The only way physical barriers work is if they are covered by overlapping fires and are augmented by mixed density mine fields. We ain't about to do that either, so WTF we kiddin'? Ourselves?

Now, if a non-cit illegally in this country commits a felony, then they should be tried and if convicted, placed in detention, preferably in a very crappy (but still humane) place and they should do their time, then promptly be deported...but only after tattooing a big "F" for felon on their forehead.:D

And immigration and defense?

[Okla-homey]

How would you provide a path to citizenship for the ones who are already here? Qualifications? Requirements?

sure. Like reasonable fluency in English for one thing.

But just thinking out loud, lets say they turn themselves in and register, we give them a SSN with a special suffix denoting their status as "probationary" resident aliens. We take fingerprints, photos and DNA at that registration. If they keep their nose clean for two years, learn to speak English and pay their taxes...boom. Attend the nearest naturalization ceremony and they're citizens. Then they get a SSN without that tenth digit.

If they have a minor screw up during their probationary period, they get one chance to start all over from the date of that screw-up. They would still have to do two spotless years.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Dude. Just write a book about it. Admit it all. Discuss how those mistakes helped shape you into the good God Fearin', Country Lovin', law abiding citizen who you are today and publish it NOW.

Then wait a year or two before you run.

I've heard this approach has worked for some successful politicians lately. ;)

Or just write ANY books and smoke contraband cigars.

READ: Play your Kinky Friedman card.

[sooner_born_1960]

Homey, do anything except adding a tenth digit to the SSN. That one change would render personnel, payroll, medical records, and banking systems inoperable. The money required to fix that would rival the dollars spent on Y2K.

[Okla-homey]

Homey, do anything except adding a tenth digit to the SSN. That one change would render personnel, payroll, medical records, and banking systems inoperable. The money required to fix that would rival the dollars spent on Y2K.

okay, could be substitute a letter for one of the digits without creating chaos?

[sooner_born_1960]

okay, could be substitute a letter for one of the digits without creating chaos?
Probably not, as most SSN fields are defined as Number(9).

[sooner_born_1960]

However, a search reveals that


In the present times, invalid social security numbers include numbers with set of zeroes ( as in 000-xx-xxxx, xxx-00-xxxx, xxx-xx-0000), numbers starting with 666, numbers from 987-65-4320 through 987-65-4329 - which are marked for advertising, and numbers with the starting three digits above 770, which are not yet allocated.

So, I suppose something like 880-00-0000 thru 889-99-9999 could be reserved for aliens.

[Okla-homey]

However, a search reveals that


So, I suppose something like 880-00-0000 thru 889-99-9999 could be reserved for aliens.

suh-weet. See, the SO can figger out anything.

[BudSooner]

I don't vote straight party tickets, so my thinking these days makes me the black sheep of the family....all of 'em repubs.