Dear Red States - an updated proposal

[SoonerFrog]

Dear Red States -

No doubt you got our letter four years ago. You know, the one where we decided to take our states with us and leave you to your own fates (see below).

We still haven't heard back from you about that. It's OK. But we're back to renegotiate:

In addition to the states listed four years ago, after the election this week, we’re also taking: Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, Ohio, Indiana, Iowa, Florida, Virginia and North Carolina. And 1/4 of Nebraska, just 'cus we can.

Since this is more than half of the states, we get to keep the names "America" and "USA"...you can call your country Greater Oklahoma. Or Huckabee-Palin country. Or Jesusland. Or whatever. I don’t care.

But you don’t get to call yourself "real" America or "real" Americans anymore.

We do.

We are Real America.

And we just elected Barack Obama as our new president. And in four years, we’ll be back to take back more of this great nation.

(Watch for Arizona, Georgia, Montana and the Dakotas to join us real soon - and we'll try to take Missouri if we can).

Sincerely,

The Blue States.

PS - As a reminder, in case you don't remember the original letter from four years ago, I've reposted below. We certainly put it out all over those internet tubes (you know the ones that convicted felon Sen. Ted Stevens that you just reelected likes to talk about).


Dear Red States:

We've decided we're leaving. We intend to form our own country, and we're taking the other Blue States with us. In case you aren't aware, that includes California, Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and the entire Northeast. We believe this split will be beneficial to the nation, and especially to the people of the new country of
New California.

To sum up briefly: You get Texas, Oklahoma and all the slave states. We get stem cell research and the best beaches. We get the Statue of Liberty. You get Dollywood. We get Intel and Microsoft. You get WorldCom. We get Harvard. You get Ole' Miss. We get 85 percent of America's venture Capital and entrepreneurs. You get Alabama. We get two-thirds of the tax revenue; you get to make the red states pay their fair share.

Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the Christian Coalition's, we get a bunch of happy families. You get a bunch of single moms. Please be aware that Nuevo California will be pro-choice and anti-war, and we're going to want all our citizens back from Iraq at once.

If you need people to fight, ask your evangelicals. They have kids they're apparently willing to send to their deaths for no purpose, and they don't care if you don't show pictures of their children's caskets coming home. We do wish you success in Iraq, and hope that the WMDs turn up, but we're not willing to spend our resources in Bush's Quagmire.

With the Blue States in hand, we will have firm control of 80 percent of the country's fresh water, more than 90 percent of the pineapple and lettuce, 92 percent of the nation's fresh fruit, 95 percent of America's quality wines, 90 percent of all cheese, 90 percent of the high tech industry, most of the U.S. low-sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools plus Stanford, Cal Tech
and MIT.

With the Red States, on the other hand, you will have to cope with 88 percent of all obese Americans (and their projected health care costs), 92 percent of all U.S. mosquitoes, nearly 100 percent of the tornadoes, 90 percent of the hurricanes, 99 percent of all Southern Baptists, virtually 100 percent of all televangelists, Rush Limbaugh, Bob Jones University,
Clemson and the University of Georgia. We get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you.

Additionally, 38 percent of those in the Red states believe Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale, 62 percent believe life is sacred unless we're discussing the war, the death penalty or gun laws, 44 percent say That evolution is only a theory, 53 percent that Saddam was involved in 9/11 and
61 percent of you crazy bastards believe you are people with higher morals then we lefties.

Finally, we're taking the good pot, too. You can have that dirt weed they grow in Mexico.

Peace out,
Blue States

[SicEmBaylor]

Oh God...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[SoonerInKCMO]

This won't end well.

I like it though. :D :D :D

[NYC Poke]

Now that they have Florida, won't they have to take Rush Limbaugh?

[tommieharris91]

Why would y'all wanna leave now? Y'all won.

[SoonerFrog]

Now that they have Florida, won't they have to take Rush Limbaugh? We're going to keep him in a little round room with his empty pill boxes, some peanut butter, and a few starved ferrets.

[SoonerFrog]

Why would y'all wanna leave now? Y'all won.
It's just a nicer way of saying "we're kicking you out."

[SicEmBaylor]

It's just a nicer way of saying "we're kicking you out."

There are times when I forget why I'm a Republican. You just reminded me why.

[NYC Poke]

There are times when I forget why I'm a Republican. You just reminded me why.


I thought it was to meet chicks at your meetings.

[mdklatt]

There are times when I forget why I'm a Republican. You just reminded me why.

It's a good thing Republicans never act like jagoffs and try to claim a monopoly on "real America" or something, or you'd have to become an independent.

[SicEmBaylor]

I thought it was to meet chicks at your meetings.

That too although the meetings in question are a non-partisan conservative organization. I detest College Republicans.

[SicEmBaylor]

It's a good thing Republicans never act like jagoffs and try to claim a monopoly on "real America" or you'd have to become an independent.

That's when I'm reminded that I shouldn't be a Republican.

[85Sooner]

Dear Red States -

No doubt you got our letter four years ago. You know, the one where we decided to take our states with us and leave you to your own fates (see below).

We still haven't heard back from you about that. It's OK. But we're back to renegotiate:

In addition to the states listed four years ago, after the election this week, we’re also taking: Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, Ohio, Indiana, Iowa, Florida, Virginia and North Carolina. And 1/4 of Nebraska, just 'cus we can.

Since this is more than half of the states, we get to keep the names "America" and "USA"...you can call your country Greater Oklahoma. Or Huckabee-Palin country. Or Jesusland. Or whatever. I don’t care.

But you don’t get to call yourself "real" America or "real" Americans anymore.

We do.

We are Real America.

And we just elected Barack Obama as our new president. And in four years, we’ll be back to take back more of this great nation.

(Watch for Arizona, Georgia, Montana and the Dakotas to join us real soon - and we'll try to take Missouri if we can).

Sincerely,

The Blue States.

PS - As a reminder, in case you don't remember the original letter from four years ago, I've reposted below. We certainly put it out all over those internet tubes (you know the ones that convicted felon Sen. Ted Stevens that you just reelected likes to talk about).



YEAH? Wait til you see our toll rates bro. Not to mention there are a few nice air force bases that we now control. Oh and I wouldn't be counting on much beef etc... from the midwest, course all you like is tofu anyway. Oh and that ethanol thing? Forgettaboutit.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Enjoy living off of the Fruit and Cheese!!! I will be busy eating my hamburger!!

[mdklatt]

That's when I'm reminded that I shouldn't be a Republican.

Don't be either one, then.

[SoonerInKCMO]

Enjoy living off of the Fruit and Cheese!!! I will be busy eating my hamburger!!

Plenty of cows and pigs in Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois and Colorado. ;)

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Not after we send the Indians to raid them!

[SoonerTerry]

Dear Frog,

**** you

that is all

[tommieharris91]

YEAH? Wait til you see our toll rates bro. Not to mention there are a few nice air force bases that we now control. Oh and I wouldn't be counting on much beef etc... from the midwest, course all you like is tofu anyway. Oh and that ethanol thing? Forgettaboutit.

That ethanol thing gave Iowa to Obama.

But they are anti-war, and since we're just a buncha war mongerers, it would be easy for those of us in flyover country to take them back.

[Curly Bill]

Plenty of cows and pigs in Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois and Colorado. ;)

Are you talkin about teh wimmins in them there states? :D

[SoonerInKCMO]

Heh. :D

[Vaevictis]

That ethanol thing gave Iowa to Obama.

But they are anti-war, and since we're just a buncha war mongerers, it would be easy for those of us in flyover country to take them back.

Depends on how fast the hypothetical red state country moves. 'Cause they sure as hell couldn't support the military they want from the tax base they'd have.

[Vaevictis]

Enjoy living off of the Fruit and Cheese!!! I will be busy eating my hamburger!!

... that you paid $83 for.

I bet beef gets expensive when the supply of corn gets cut off. :)

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

It is amazing...it is almost as if the Red states need the Blue states and the Blue States need the Red States!

[Vaevictis]

It is amazing...it is almost as if the Red states need the Blue states and the Blue States need the Red States!

No wai! ;)

[Fraggle145]

This won't end well.

I like it though. :D :D :D

:pop:

[Jerk]

I actually think this is a good idea.

[Frozen Sooner]

This kind of thing isn't really helpful.

It's probably best to remember that the vast majority of America doesn't live in a "Red" state or a "Blue" state, they live in a red, white, and blue state.

The beauty of democracy is that people are able to disagree-sometimes vehemently disagree-and nobody says "Well, I'm taking my ball and going home."

I don't particularly feel like taunting supporters of John McCain. The vast majority of them are good people who happened to disagree with me on several issues that we both think are important. Some of them are people who even agree with me on those issues but for whatever reason thought that McCain was the better choice. That's OK.

The important thing is that we are still one nation.

[SoonerInKCMO]

Buzzkill.

[GottaHavePride]

Buzzkill.

Isn't that what those dirty mods are for?

;)

[Frozen Sooner]

Hey, Barack said it best. We aren't a collection of red states and blue states but UNITED States.

Respect. Include. Empower.

Something they made very sure to impress on anyone who went out canvassing or was making phone calls was to never belittle or exclude someone because they're a McCain supporter. It's one of the many reasons I was such a fervent supporter during the campaign (though I will admit it goes a bit against my nature...)

[soonerhubs]

Well if that isn't the biggest pile of divisive nonsense out there, I don't know what is. I personally plan to pray for my President Elect Barack Obama.

However, Frog, if you enjoy the taunting and petty childishness of your posting AFTER the election is over, feel free.

[SoonerFrog]

Hey, Barack said it best. We aren't a collection of red states and blue states but UNITED States.

Respect. Include. Empower.

Something they made very sure to impress on anyone who went out canvassing or was making phone calls was to never belittle or exclude someone because they're a McCain supporter. It's one of the many reasons I was such a fervent supporter during the campaign (though I will admit it goes a bit against my nature...)

Waaaaay to go Frozen. Harshing my mellow...:twinkies:

Geez.

[soonerboomer93]

have fun trying to get gas

bitches...


;)

[SoonerFrog]

Well if that isn't the biggest pile of divisive nonsense out there, I don't know what is. I personally plan to pray for my President Elect Barack Obama.

However, Frog, if you enjoy the taunting and petty childishness of your posting AFTER the election is over, feel free.

Normally, I would slap my own hand with you. But...after being treated like a 5th class citizen since 8 years ago Tuesday, I think I am entitled to a few...eons...of this.:texan:

[tbl]

Hey idiot... We'll take all those red voters and move them out of your liberal states, give you the small percentage in ours, take back NC, VA, IN, CO, the upper half of Florida, and give you the West Coast, Northeast, and Upper Midwest. Miami goes to Cuba. We'll be just fine.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Why would y'all wanna leave now? Y'all won.Agreed.

Quit gloating.

[soonerhubs]

Normally, I would slap my own hand with you. But...after being treated like a 5th class citizen since 8 years ago Tuesday, I think I am entitled to a few...eons...of this.:texan:

You sure it wasn't just a 3rd or 4th class citizen. I must know, who is abusing the frog so much?

:rolleyes:

[Frozen Sooner]

I must know, who is abusing the frog so much?


:mad:

:les:IT'S NATURAL AND HEALTHY!!!

[OKC Sooner]

Finally, we're taking the good pot, too. You can have that dirt weed they grow in Mexico.

Does Obama winning mean the good pot is coming back? :cool:

[Getem]

Ok, where on here am I supposed to write "United States of America" in just the blue?

http://members.cox.net/gswood64/countymap2008.jpg

[Fraggle145]

Buzzkill.

Totally. ;)

[Dio]

Dear Red States -

No doubt you got our letter four years ago. You know, the one where we decided to take our states with us and leave you to your own fates (see below).

We still haven't heard back from you about that. It's OK. But we're back to renegotiate:

In addition to the states listed four years ago, after the election this week, we’re also taking: Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, Ohio, Indiana, Iowa, Florida, Virginia and North Carolina. And 1/4 of Nebraska, just 'cus we can.

Since this is more than half of the states, we get to keep the names "America" and "USA"...you can call your country Greater Oklahoma. Or Huckabee-Palin country. Or Jesusland. Or whatever. I don’t care.

But you don’t get to call yourself "real" America or "real" Americans anymore.

We do.

We are Real America.

And we just elected Barack Obama as our new president. And in four years, we’ll be back to take back more of this great nation.

(Watch for Arizona, Georgia, Montana and the Dakotas to join us real soon - and we'll try to take Missouri if we can).

Sincerely,

The Blue States.

PS - As a reminder, in case you don't remember the original letter from four years ago, I've reposted below. We certainly put it out all over those internet tubes (you know the ones that convicted felon Sen. Ted Stevens that you just reelected likes to talk about).

Why is this noob ****** still green?

[Frozen Sooner]

Without looking at IPs, someone who addresses me as Frozen probably isn't a n00b.

[Dio]

Without looking at IPs, someone who addresses me as Frozen probably isn't a n00b.

OK, let me rephrase that then-

Why is this ******-bag -who rarely posts, and when he does, it's this- still green?

Better? ;)

[SoonerKnight]

This kind of thing isn't really helpful.

It's probably best to remember that the vast majority of America doesn't live in a "Red" state or a "Blue" state, they live in a red, white, and blue state.

The beauty of democracy is that people are able to disagree-sometimes vehemently disagree-and nobody says "Well, I'm taking my ball and going home."

I don't particularly feel like taunting supporters of John McCain. The vast majority of them are good people who happened to disagree with me on several issues that we both think are important. Some of them are people who even agree with me on those issues but for whatever reason thought that McCain was the better choice. That's OK.

The important thing is that we are still one nation.



Uh, except for Alaska I say we give it back to Russia!!!! :D Convicted felon elected first time ever!!!!! :rolleyes:

[Frozen Sooner]

See the post I just made about that. Stevens hasn't won re-election yet, and what I'm hearing about the uncounted votes makes me pretty sure that he won't. Begich is crushing Stevens so far in the absentee voting by 22 points, and he only needs 50.8 to win.

[Frozen Sooner]

And technically, Ted Stevens has not been convicted.

You're not actually convicted until sentencing.

[Jerk]

As I understand it, there are currently 56 Democrat Senators and 4 races too close to call.

If all 4 Democrat candidates somehow win, I'm going to have to tighten my tinfoil hat.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1927/tinfoildoghb6.jpg

[Harry Beanbag]

Without looking at IPs, someone who addresses me as Frozen probably isn't a n00b.


No ****. You mean we have a troll that is too much of a ***** to post bull**** like this using their real handle? Surely not. :rolleyes: **** I hate trolls.

[GrapevineSooner]

I thought Barack said there were no red states or blue states. :confused:

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

No what Barack said was "All Red and Blue States are created equal in eyes of Lord in Heaven, whom is my father, and has sent me to redeem All states regardless of color."

[Okla-homey]

Ok, where on here am I supposed to write "United States of America" in just the blue?

http://members.cox.net/gswood64/countymap2008.jpg

Let's break it down by the numbers shall we.

BHO garnered approximately 52% of the popular vote, marking only the third time since WWII that a dem has won the popular-vote majority. That is indeed a major achievment and the BHO campaign deserves enormous spek for pulling it off.

Nationally, black turnout increased from 11% to 13%, while the democrat share of the black vote increased from 88% to 93%. Even with higher black turnout, had the democrat nominee not improved his showing among black voters, JSMwould have won. This is important to understand because we now know that if HRC had captured the donk nomination, that level of black support probably wouldn't have materialized and despite conventional wisdom at the time, JSM would have won. In short, monolithic black support and unprecedented black turn-out clinched this election for BHO.

As an interesting aside, that massive black turn-out also swept these ghey marriage bans to passage in Florida and California. Blacks supported Cali's Prop 8 to amend the CA constituton banning gay marriage by a margin of 7-3, while whites supported Prop 8 by a margin of 4-6. Thus, at least in Cali, it would appear that black folks aren't very supportive of the gheys. Methinks the ghey community has some work to do among black folks.

Talk of increased youth turnout was more hype than reality. The 18 to 29-year-old vote increased from 17% to 18% compared to 2004 (and decreased in Ohio from 21% to 17%). The difference was not high youth turnout, but rather his popularity with young voters: BHO captured 66% of under-29 voters to Kerry's 54% four years ago.

One demographic that swung dramatically was the wealthy vote. In 2004, voters earning more than $200,000 voted 63% to 35% for GWB, according to CNN. This year, they voted 52% to 46% for BHO, a far higher margin than BHO enjoyed among the middle class. I am certain, however, that we will continue to hear that Republicans are the party of the wealthy.

Party identification numbers in the exit polls tell an interesting tale. While BHO did about the same among dems as did Kerry four years ago (both with 89%), and JSM did slightly worse among Republicans than did GWB (JSM 90% to GWB 93%), the Democrat-to-Republican ratio shifted dramatically. Self-identified Republicans were 37% of the electorate four years ago, while this year they were only 32%--meanwhile, dems jumped from 37% to 40%.

JSM's unimpressive share of the Hispanic vote, 32% while running against a black nominee, should put to rest the notion that by pushing liberalized immigration laws, Republicans can come close to political parity in that section of the electorate.

[leavingthezoo]

Let's break it down by the numbers shall we.

BHO garnered approximately 52% of the popular vote, marking only the third time since WWII that a dem has won the popular-vote majority. That is indeed a major achievment and the BHO campaign deserves enormous spek for pulling it off.

Nationally, black turnout increased from 11% to 13%, while the democrat share of the black vote increased from 88% to 93%. Even with higher black turnout, had the democrat nominee not improved his showing among black voters, BHO would have won. This is important to understand because we now know that if HRC had captured the donk nomination, that level of black support probably wouldn't have materialized and despite conventional wisdom at the time, JSM would have won. In short, monolithic black support and unprecedented black turn-out clinched this election for BHO.

As an interesting aside, that massive black turn-out also swept these ghey marriage bans to passage in Florida and California. Blacks supported Cali's Prop 8 to amend the CA constituton banning gay marriage by a margin of 7-3, while whites supported Prop 8 by a margin of 4-6. Thus, at least in Cali, it would appear that black folks aren't very supportive of the gheys. Methinks the ghey community has some work to do among black folks.

Talk of increased youth turnout was more hype than reality. The 18 to 29-year-old vote increased from 17% to 18% compared to 2004 (and decreased in Ohio from 21% to 17%). The difference was not high youth turnout, but rather his popularity with young voters: BHO captured 66% of under-29 voters to Kerry's 54% four years ago.

One demographic that swung dramatically was the wealthy vote. In 2004, voters earning more than $200,000 voted 63% to 35% for GWB, according to CNN. This year, they voted 52% to 46% for BHO, a far higher margin than BHO enjoyed among the middle class. I am certain, however, that we will continue to hear that Republicans are the party of the wealthy.

Party identification numbers in the exit polls tell an interesting tale. While BHO did about the same among dems as did Kerry four years ago (both with 89%), and JSM did slightly worse among Republicans than did GWB (JSM 90% to GWB 93%), the Democrat-to-Republican ratio shifted dramatically. Self-identified Republicans were 37% of the electorate four years ago, while this year they were only 32%--meanwhile, dems jumped from 37% to 40%.

JSM's unimpressive share of the Hispanic vote, 32% while running against a black nominee, should put to rest the notion that by pushing liberalized immigration laws, Republicans can come close to political parity in that section of the electorate.

I don't totally understand why you guys keep pressing the "black vote" and "hispanic vote" considering he couldn't have won without the contribution of 43% white vote either.

In short, even with monolithic black support and unprecedented black turnout, Obama could not have won without ... well, us.

Sigh.

[Okla-homey]

I don't totally understand why you guys keep pressing the "black vote" and "hispanic vote" considering he couldn't have won without the contribution of 43% white vote either.

In short, even with monolithic black support and unprecedented black turnout, Obama could not have won without ... well, us.

Sigh.


The point is, without the unprecedented black turn-out and support, "us" as you say, would not have elected BHO. IOW, 43% of the white vote, given the popular race went 52-48, would not have been enough to put BHO over the top. And don't read too much into this, its merely an objective observation.

A big reason BHO didn't carry a single county, let alone this state is the five largest ancestry groups in Oklahoma are European (65%), African (8%) and Native American (8%), Asian and Hispanic (19%). No Oklahoma county has more than a 15 percent black population.

If you look at the deep South states on the above map, it's not a coincidence that the counties carried in Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina and Louisiana are the counties with black populations approaching 50%. But look at Alabama closely, BHO carried Tuscaloosa because that's where the University of Alabama is located. I'm kinda suprised BHO didn't carry Cleveland County here in Oklahoma for the same reason. I think you'll find that is the case throughout most of the country below 37 degrees latitude.

[leavingthezoo]

I think we agree... without one or the other, we'd be looking at McCain. It took both.

[Okla-homey]

I think we agree... without one or the other, we'd be looking at McCain. It took both.

Don't forget. 40% of the country doesn't pay any taxes (except sales tax). Those folks were in BHO's pocket from jump street.

[Jerk]

I'm going to give this 8 years and 4 election cycles to see whether or not America becomes ruled by a permanent one party government. Amnesty is coming and this will give the dems a sh*tload of votes in the southwest. You can bet they'll be changes in voting laws, too, that will make it easier for anyone with a pulse to vote - whether they're eligable or not.

But it's not over. People said that liberalism was dead in early 1995 and late 2004, and look where we are now. The pendulum swings back and forth but the dems may "fix" it where it can't swing back far enough to balance things out. So, we'll see.

If the demographics and rules become so that there is little or no possibility for a viable opposition party, be it Republicans or Libertarians, or anyone else who can stand up against creeping socialism, then it's time to lower the flag, pack up, and go somewhere....I don't know where...but somewhere....somewhere with 2 competitive political parties like Canada, NZ, or Aus.

I know this would amuse some of my liberal friends here, but permanent one party rule is for suckas.

[Half a Hundred]

The point is, without the unprecedented black turn-out and support, "us" as you say, would not have elected BHO. IOW, 43% of the white vote, given the popular race went 52-48, would not have been enough to put BHO over the top. And don't read too much into this, its merely an objective observation.

A big reason BHO didn't carry a single county, let alone this state is the five largest ancestry groups in Oklahoma are European (65%), African (8%) and Native American (8%), Asian and Hispanic (19%). No Oklahoma county has more than a 15 percent black population.

If you look at the deep South states on the above map, it's not a coincidence that the counties carried in Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina and Louisiana are the counties with black populations approaching 50%. But look at Alabama closely, BHO carried Tuscaloosa because that's where the University of Alabama is located. I'm kinda suprised BHO didn't carry Cleveland County here in Oklahoma for the same reason. I think you'll find that is the case throughout most of the country below 37 degrees latitude.

Three words: Moore and Noble

You think Terrill-land went anything less than 75-25 JSM? I bet if you could find a map that broke things down by precinct, you'd see a blob of light blue in the middle of a sea of dark red represented by West Norman, Moore, and the rural communities in the south. There's a reason JSM won by 12 pts in Cleveland County.

[leavingthezoo]

I'm going to give this 8 years and 4 election cycles to see whether or not America becomes ruled by a permanent one party government. Amnesty is coming and this will give the dems a sh*tload of votes in the southwest. You can bet they'll be changes in voting laws, too, that will make it easier for anyone with a pulse to vote - whether they're eligable or not.

But it's not over. People said that liberalism was dead in early 1995 and late 2004, and look where we are now. The pendulum swings back and forth but the dems may "fix" it where it can't swing back far enough to balance things out. So, we'll see.

If the demographics and rules become so that there is little or no possibility for a viable opposition party, be it Republicans or Libertarians, or anyone else who can stand up against creeping socialism, then it's time to lower the flag, pack up, and go somewhere....I don't know where...but somewhere....somewhere with 2 competitive political parties like Canada, NZ, or Aus.

I know this would amuse some of my liberal friends here, but permanent one party rule is for suckas.

dude, not to call you an alarmist or anything, but... having 1 election in 12 years where the democrat wins is hardly a signal for one party rule.

it also might surprise you to know at least THIS liberal doesn't like the idea of total control of all three branches. it was a bad idea when bush had it for 6 years, and it is a bad idea now.

you're right that the pendulum swings, as evidenced now. i don't suspect it will stay in this direction unless a lot of you pack up and leave for Canada, NZ, or Aus. ;)

[Okla-homey]

Three words: Moore and Noble

You think Terrill-land went anything less than 75-25 JSM? I bet if you could find a map that broke things down by precinct, you'd see a blob of light blue in the middle of a sea of dark red represented by West Norman, Moore, and the rural communities in the south. There's a reason JSM won by 12 pts in Cleveland County.

I think all that Terrel's HB1804 did was guarentee that Okie hispanics will vote dem forever.

Statewide to date, there have been three (3) arrests based on violations of 1804 and precisely one (1) conviction. Much ado about nothing IMHO.

[Lott's Bandana]

Three words: Moore and Noble

You think Terrill-land went anything less than 75-25 JSM? I bet if you could find a map that broke things down by precinct, you'd see a blob of light blue in the middle of a sea of dark red represented by West Norman, Moore, and the rural communities in the south. There's a reason JSM won by 12 pts in Cleveland County.

Fitty, I think you didn't capture all the reasons.
CC is a significant "bedroom" for Tinker employees and Military families as well. (therefore include East Norman)
61% JSM in CC wasn't even close.

[Harry Beanbag]

Don't forget. 40% of the country doesn't pay any taxes (except sales tax). Those folks were in BHO's pocket from jump street.


Aren't they always in the Dem candidate's pocket? They're the democrat base.

[leavingthezoo]

Don't forget. 40% of the country doesn't pay any taxes (except sales tax). Those folks were in BHO's pocket from jump street.

Right. And so were the rich folk who pay taxes. They broke his way, as you pointed out earlier. ;)

[Okla-homey]

dude, not to call you an alarmist or anything, but... having 1 election in 12 years where the democrat wins is hardly a signal for one party rule.

it also might surprise you to know at least THIS liberal doesn't like the idea of total control of all three branches. it was a bad idea when bush had it for 6 years, and it is a bad idea now.

you're right that the pendulum swings, as evidenced now. i don't suspect it will stay in this direction unless a lot of you pack up and leave for Canada, NZ, or Aus. ;)

I take comfort in the knowledge that one party controls only two branches. The judicial branch is still controlled by a conservative majority. The oldest and most decrepit two SCOTUS justices are Ginsburg and Stevens. If they retire now, BHO's appointees can't be more liberal than they. Thus, it'll be a wash. Just gotta hope none of the conservative justices get run over by a bus.

[Harry Beanbag]

Right. And so were the rich folk who pay taxes. They broke his way, as you pointed out earlier. ;)


You think they will be in 4 years? ;)

[leavingthezoo]

I take comfort in the knowledge that one party controls only two branches. The judicial branch is still controlled by a conservative majority. The oldest and most decrepit two SCOTUS justices are Ginsburg and Stevens. If they retire now, BHO's appointees can't be more liberal than they. Thus, it'll be a wash. Just gotta hope none of the conservative justices get run over by a bus.

you got me. i said branches but should not have. i was speaking of white house, congress and senate.

i still say those three should not ALL be majority one party.

[leavingthezoo]

You think they will be in 4 years? ;)

i guess we'll discuss that in 4 years. :confused:

[Half a Hundred]

I think all that Terrel's HB1804 did was guarentee that Okie hispanics will vote dem forever.

Statewide to date, there have been three (3) arrests based on violations of 1804 and precisely one (1) conviction. Much ado about nothing IMHO.

Wasn't referencing 1804 as much as his very conservative evangelical base in that area. You're right about 1804 being essentially security theater, though. That's a different discussion, however.



Fitty, I think you didn't capture all the reasons.
CC is a significant "bedroom" for Tinker employees and Military families as well. (therefore include East Norman)
61% JSM in CC wasn't even close.

That's very true. They probably went 70-24 or something like that.

[Jerk]

dude, not to call you an alarmist or anything, but... having 1 election in 12 years where the democrat wins is hardly a signal for one party rule.

it also might surprise you to know at least THIS liberal doesn't like the idea of total control of all three branches. it was a bad idea when bush had it for 6 years, and it is a bad idea now.

you're right that the pendulum swings, as evidenced now. i don't suspect it will stay in this direction unless a lot of you pack up and leave for Canada, NZ, or Aus. ;)

I would not be concerned if it weren't for the very real possibility of amnesty legislation that will give millions of new voters to the democrat side.

eta -we've been a balanced nation for a very long time, always checking the party that goes too far. Amnesty would end this.

[Jerk]

I think all that Terrel's HB1804 did was guarentee that Okie hispanics will vote dem forever.

Statewide to date, there have been three (3) arrests based on violations of 1804 and precisely one (1) conviction. Much ado about nothing IMHO.

Tell that to the guy who got convicted :)

[Okla-homey]

Tell that to the guy who got convicted :)

actually, he was a coyote, and I doubt I could tell him because he doesn't speak English.;)

[Veritas]

Dear SoonerFrog,

Thanks for your efforts to join the king of the hill contest to become the board's top left-leaning incendiary poster. Unfortunately your tenure here is too short and your posts too few to be a serious contender, although taking a look at your posting history suggests that you'd really like a shot.

So let's put it this way: give me a reason, and I'll kick YOU out. Divisive bullcrap will be tolerated from veteran posters, but not from annoying nooblets who only show up to **** people off.

Regards,
Big Red State resident Veritittays

[stoopified]

I wonder how all the libs will feel about Obama THE CHOSEN ONE in six months or a year from now.I hope he can do someting, BUT I am CERTAIN that he will NOT perform the miracles many expect.

There is an old saying in football about the quarterback gets too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses.The same is true about Presidents which if you know history,you know this to be true.

[bluedogok]

I never understood the Red/Blue thing, if you listen to the pubs shouldn't the Dems have been "Red" :pop:

[Chuck Bao]

Don't forget. 40% of the country doesn't pay any taxes (except sales tax). Those folks were in BHO's pocket from jump street.

This thread started out in bizarro land and it looks like it's returning there.

Under the George W. Bush administration, the percentage of tax returns with zero or negative tax liability rose from 25% to 32%. That appears to be the result of Bush’s two major tax bills in 2001 and 2003. Or, it could be that the economy hasn’t improved much despite the fiscal stimulus.

On the surface of it, you’d think that Bush would be very popular. Why isn’t he?

To say that those people who pay no federal income taxes are in “BHO’s pocket from jump street” is a bit of a stretch.

I thought BHO and the Democrats were supposed to raise taxes. Okay, they aren’t, but they should.

At some point, US economic policy can’t revolve around encouraging the already debt-ridden US consumer to spend more. It may be a short-term fix, but it won’t solve the core problem. No politician is ready to tell people to save more and spend less.

It almost seems like we are in the pocket of the Chinese. We’ll buy their goods, if they buy our debt.

Bizarro land.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/1410.html


Fiscal Fact No. 54
With the April 17th deadline for federal tax returns looming, Americans are sharply aware of their federal income tax liabilities. However, one aspect of federal income taxes they may not be aware of is the growing number of Americans who pay zero federal income tax after taking advantage of deductions and credits.

During 2006, Tax Foundation economists estimate that roughly 43.4 million tax returns, representing 91 million individuals, will face a zero or negative tax liability. That's out of a total of 136 million federal tax returns that will be filed. Adding to this figure the 15 million households and individuals who file no tax return at all, roughly 121 million Americans—or 41 percent of the U.S. population—will be completely outside the federal income tax system in 2006.1 This total includes those who pay no tax, and those who pay some tax upfront and are later refunded the full amount of the tax paid or more.

Who Are the Non-Payers?
Using IRS data, we are able to create a profile of these individuals who are outside the federal income tax system. …those who file as single or head-of-household are much more likely to be non-payers. One-third of single filers pay nothing in federal income taxes, and almost two-thirds of those who file as head of household pay nothing. In contrast, just 22 percent of married filers are non-payers.

Why do many single filers face zero tax liability? One reason is that single filers tend to be younger and earn lower incomes than married filers—especially single parents who file as head-of-household. As a result, married taxpayers pay roughly 75 percent of all federal income taxes, despite filing only 40 percent of returns.

Non-Payers by State
The number of Americans who face zero federal income tax liability varies widely by state. …there are two primary reasons why some states have a disproportionate share of non-payers. First is that average household income varies by state, and those with lower-than-average incomes will have a larger share of non-payers. Second, some states have a high number of single parents—who typically file as head-of-household—whose tax liabilities are reduced through tax credits such as the $1,000 per child tax credit and the Earned Income Tax Credit. The estimates …do not take into account the likely increase in the number of non-payers in Gulf Coast states as a result of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

Large Number of Non-Payers Make Tax Reform Difficult
Federal tax reform requires that the base of the federal income tax be widened, so that overall tax rates can be reduced. However, because of the large number of Americans currently paying zero federal income tax, any attempt to broaden the tax base will be a difficult sell for lawmakers. The millions of Americans who have no federal income tax liability will either be indifferent about tax reform or will positively oppose it, as it would require bringing them into the federal tax base.

The Effect of Recent Tax Cuts on Non-Payers
As President Bush pushed through his two major tax bills in 2001 and 2003, opponents focused on the dollar amounts saved by high-income individuals. What many critics have ignored is the number of people who were removed from the tax rolls as a result of the expansion of the child tax credit, which was a key provision of the President's Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001.

…the number of tax returns with zero or negative tax liability has risen steadily over the past decade. However, it accelerated sharply between 2000 and 2004 due to the effects of tax changes during President Bush's first term of office.

Conclusion
These findings raise serious questions about the future of the U.S. income tax system, and the possibility of base-broadening tax reform when the majority of the federal tax burden is borne by a shrinking pool of taxpayers. As Congress considers tax reform proposals during the coming year, this is an issue lawmakers should begin to debate.

[85Sooner]

This thread started out in bizarro land and it looks like it's returning there.

Under the George W. Bush administration, the percentage of tax returns with zero or negative tax liability rose from 25% to 32%. That appears to be the result of Bush’s two major tax bills in 2001 and 2003. Or, it could be that the economy hasn’t improved much despite the fiscal stimulus.

On the surface of it, you’d think that Bush would be very popular. Why isn’t he?

To say that those people who pay no federal income taxes are in “BHO’s pocket from jump street” is a bit of a stretch.

I thought BHO and the Democrats were supposed to raise taxes. Okay, they aren’t, but they should.

At some point, US economic policy can’t revolve around encouraging the already debt-ridden US consumer to spend more. It may be a short-term fix, but it won’t solve the core problem. No politician is ready to tell people to save more and spend less.

It almost seems like we are in the pocket of the Chinese. We’ll buy their goods, if they buy our debt.

Bizarro land.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/1410.html

Easy solution, Quit paying people not to work and cut most of the federal handouts. I know folks who are rich and own business and are very rich however they hire and fire each other and still get food stamps, unemployment etc......

[Chuck Bao]

Easy solution, Quit paying people not to work and cut most of the federal handouts. I know folks who are rich and own business and are very rich however they hire and fire each other and still get food stamps, unemployment etc......


Probably you are right. Rich people collecting unemployment and food stamps is the real problem.

If we just tighten this up and give everyone the proper incentives, we can compete against anyone.

Except, China's labor costs are still one-eighth of that in the US.

Talk about leveling influence of the Democrat's tax policy. Free trade and outsourcing is effectively resulting in the greatest wealth creation in history of mankind. However, you slice it, that's not bad for the commie "command" economics.

[Harry Beanbag]

I never understood the Red/Blue thing, if you listen to the pubs shouldn't the Dems have been "Red" :pop:
I may have been smoking crack as a child, but I could have sworn it used to be that way. Dems were red and Pubs were blue. I guess the PC police fixed it.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

I think all that Terrel's HB1804 did was guarentee that Okie hispanics will vote dem forever.

Statewide to date, there have been three (3) arrests based on violations of 1804 and precisely one (1) conviction. Much ado about nothing IMHO.

Homey, you're a law dog. Be honest to the facts.

That has everything to do with enforcement, not with legislation. The only aspect of the bill that has any teeth is Section 5, and that's rooted in existing legislation. Everything else in the law is wholly dependent on enforcement and when the law isn't enforced (in my opinion because of its lack of tiered offenses and the theater within which it would be most effectively enforced, the local jurisdiction and yes, in the homes of illegals), the law is as good as unwritten.

[Okla-homey]

Homey, you're a law dog. Be honest to the facts.

That has everything to do with enforcement, not with legislation. The only aspect of the bill that has any teeth is Section 5, and that's rooted in existing legislation. Everything else in the law is wholly dependent on enforcement and when the law isn't enforced (in my opinion because of its lack of tiered offenses and the theater within which it would be most effectively enforced, the local jurisdiction and yes, in the homes of illegals), the law is as good as unwritten.


No, in actual fact, the federal court injunction barring the enforcement of the substantial parts of it that are unconstitional is prolly the real problem. That injunction really pulled the teeth from the tiger. ;)

[Tulsa_Fireman]

No, in actual fact, the federal court injunction barring the enforcement of the substantial parts of it that are unconstitional is prolly the real problem. That injunction really pulled the teeth from the tiger.

And to that, I will happily defer to you, sir. Hell, I didn't even know there was a federal court injunction.

Makes sense, though. Zero noise from TCSO since 1804's passage. That explains why.