Well the markets have their say on the first day

[85Sooner]

DOWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNN nearly 500 pnts.

I hope this is based on something other than last nights revelations.



Day 2 down over 400

biggest 2 day decline since 1987

[Vaevictis]

We've had 9 500 point swings in the last month's worth of trading. (eg, 20ish days)

I doubt the election is the issue.

[mdklatt]

The market was up yesterday, and it's not like Obama winning was a surprise.

[DalHorn]

Oil fell again today and gas was $2.05 in my neighborhood. Thanks BHO!!



:rolleyes:

[tommieharris91]

DOWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNN nearly 500 pnts.

I hope this is based on something other than last nights revelations.

It wasn't. The market already priced in an Obama win... one month ago.

[GottaHavePride]

Actually, this is the pattern for all downturns - we'd had a solid week of climbing, it was bound to dip again.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Actually, this is the pattern for all downturns - we'd had a solid week of climbing, it was bound to dip again.

A little profit taking i would say

[BoonesFarmSooner]

It wasn't. The market already priced in an Obama win... one month ago.


And coal/utilities took a hit again yesterday.

[My Opinion Matters]

Well it didn't take long for the hard-rights to start blaming Obama for the economy.

[tommieharris91]

And coal/utilities took a hit again yesterday.

Just like everything else. Strange that they actually went up on Tuesday. :rolleyes:

[85Sooner]

Just like everything else. Strange that they actually went up on Tuesday. :rolleyes:

and back down we go. I am not atributing it to the election. I agree that the correction for that was last month. But numbers are getting ready to come out and they are going to be alot worse than expected. THAT is what i believe is happening this week. Who knows.

[Flagstaffsooner]

http://lordcrimson.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/obamathecommunist.jpg

The markets are reacting to what will happen with that pos as POTUS.

[soonervegas]

this maybe the dumbest thread ever.

Pot meet Kettle

[soonerscuba]

Wow. This thread is a cavalcade of ignorance. Which enacted Obama policy caused a downturn in the middle of an already turbulent market?

[soonervegas]

This post is like a family who has enabled a serial killer their entire lives complaining because their next door neighbor's daughter had an abortion.

[85Sooner]

bump

[The Maestro]

How are the cattle futures doing?

Just kidding...I have no clue how all this stuff works!! As long as Boones has gas in his boat on Memorial Day weekend, life is fine.

[JohnnyMack]

Dear Right Wing Rush Humping Whack Jobs,

Here are some things that might interest you:

Unemployment rates jumped to a 25 year high, which was announced today.

Retail Sales reports came out today too. They were the opposite of good.

If any of you rocket scientists can explain how either of those things are the fault of BHO I'd love to hear it.

[The Maestro]

Dear Right Wing Rush Humping Whack Jobs,

Here are some things that might interest you:

Unemployment rates jumped to a 25 year high, which was announced today.

Retail Sales reports came out today too. They were the opposite of good.

If any of you rocket scientists can explain how either of those things are the fault of BHO I'd love to hear it.

I hope you aren't suggesting it is Bush's fault, though...didn't say that anywhere, but please don't suggest it is his fault, either.

Seriously.

I know a guy who got fired cause the guy is a lazy bastard. He is unemployed.

Prez's get too much blame or credit for bad and good things, IMO.

[JohnnyMack]

I hope you aren't suggesting it is Bush's fault, though...didn't say that anywhere, but please don't suggest it is his fault, either.

Seriously.

I know a guy who got fired cause the guy is a lazy bastard. He is unemployed.

Prez's get too much blame or credit for bad and good things, IMO.

Nope. I don't blame Bush for all the bad and I don't give Clinton props for all the good. Our economy is certainly cyclical and sometimes it makes people look smarter or dumber than they really are.

[StoopTroup]

Anyone done any research on how the Stock market has done everytime the day after a Presidential Election?

[StoopTroup]

http://gbr.pepperdine.edu/043/stocks.html


On the other hand, post-election periods seem to have suffered from an opposite effect that has resulted in less investor optimism. In The Stock Trader’s Almanac, 2004, Yale Hirsch notes that based on his studies, “Presidential elections every four years have a profound impact on the economy and the stock market. Wars, recessions and bear markets tend to start or occur in the first half of the term and bull markets, in the latter half.”[2]

[85Sooner]

Not blaming anyone. Just looking at the Market action which often sees an upswing after an election. Not a huge downturn and I was asking the question not placing blame.

and BTW to all those who are talking about whiney republicans.

There is no way in Hell pubs will ever be able to live up to the unprecedented behavior of the dems over the past 8 years. You are definitely the Champs as far as that goes. Congrats!

[oumartin]

Nope. I don't blame Bush for all the bad and I don't give Clinton props for all the good. Our economy is certainly cyclical and sometimes it makes people look smarter or dumber than they really are.


Holy smoke.... That is actually something worth reading

I do however believe that alot of this mess is people living way beyond their means. Just cuz it says you can buy this price house doesn't mean you should.
Everyone is responsible to a point for this crisis. I just wish the government would stay out of fixing it and just let it run the course.

[The Maestro]

I just wish the government would stay out of fixing it and just let it run the course.

True conservatism that MUST return...and honestly hasn't been the case of late.

Defend us, protect us and then butt out. Government 101 in my book.

[oumartin]

before long everybody will end up working for the government because they will have their hand in everything.

[StoopTroup]

Not blaming anyone. Just looking at the Market action which often sees an upswing after an election. Not a huge downturn and I was asking the question not placing blame.

and BTW to all those who are talking about whiney republicans.

There is no way in Hell pubs will ever be able to live up to the unprecedented behavior of the dems over the past 8 years. You are definitely the Champs as far as that goes. Congrats!

85...

You seem like a smart guy.

What I don't understand is this...Your guy lost. It happens sometimes. I was pretty upset when Richard Nixon decided to resign. I think he had some pretty bad ethics problems and technology was getting better at that time and it was a huge temptation to use it to strengthen your position at a time when we really needed a leader to end the Vietnam War.

As an American, who was 12 years old at the time mind you, I was ashamed of how people acted towards our Servicemen and Women returning from the War. I will never get over it either. I vowed to make sure it didn't happen again if I could.

Most everyone in America rallied to the cause this time and have supported our Troops in this one. Yes there have been some who have decided to use their loved ones memory politically (Cindy Sheehan for one) and others who have tried to use their Civil Rights unethically to protest at Funerals of our Fallen Heroes. Something I detest. But for the most part...what we saw happen to our Servicemen and Women in the late 60's and early 70's has not happened. I am very Proud of them all.

It was the Bush Administrations responsibility to rise to the occasion of 9/11 and to make sure that we were no longer in danger of such acts again. It was their responsibility to make sure we captured or killed or brought to justice...every stinking one of them that were responsible for 9/11. We got a lot of them. Not all. Iraq started because of WMD's. We made sure that the UN Inspectors were right. I'm glad we did that.

It's at this point where The Bush Administration began to have lots of problems.

I know you might think John McCain was the best choice of making sure this War concluded in a proper manner....but not only did he fail to sell it...he got put in one of the worst positions a Republican Candidate has faced in American History.

That's not the Dems fault IMO.

That's not Obama's fault IMO.

It's not the American People's fault IMO.

It was The Bush Administrations responsibility. Every bit of it. Just as it was Richard Nixon's responsibility to act in a proper manner as Leader of the Largest Superpower in the World in the 70's....it was GW's responsibility to do the same.

I think his administration tried to turn it around a few times too. Tony Snow was absolutely one of the best moves they made in the last term. His loss hurt GW's exit IMO. I wish God would have given him a little longer on this Earth to let him help GW with his exit. Colin Powell leaving...hurt GW. Rumsfeld stayed way to long. The list of mistakes is long. Yes there were some accomplishments too. I think lots of folks such as yourself could maybe start helping GW with his exit by putting to bed your concerns for the new Leadership right now.

Our country is facing a very serious change in Leadership and I think Obama deserves a chance to try and at least not make things worse.

We've all heard what was going to happen if he was elected....but none of us have even had the opportunity to watch any of it yet.

With all great battles...there needs to be a cooling off period.

John McCain and Barack Obama just battled it out. Obama even battled it out with Hillary Clinton to get his party's nomination. What he did is incredible IMO. It's not only hard to believe...it's still just a shock to me that he not only pulled off a win...he won in a landslide.

I remember hearing when I was a kid that anyone could someday become POTUS if they studied hard enough and applied themselves.

I always thought that was something that made this Country great.

My faith is restored in that for now.

I feel bad for John McCain though as he is a Great American who faced some of the toughest times this Nation has had to endure since his capture in Vietnam. He had a great exit speech and will always have a place in my heart. I felt his disappointment as he had to stand there and give his speech...but I also saw why he is a Great American. The people voted. It's time to make sure we continue to work hard to keep this Country great. I believe he will try as a Senator to not make things worse and as Americans, I think we should support his vision at this time.

His exit speech wasn't something he just threw together....it was a message...I message I think that was overlooked by disappointment.

I hope President Elect Obama is able to strengthen America by bringing it together. I heard he didn't take a day off after the election too. I heard he said..."It's time to get to work".

I'm gonna give it some time before I start reacting to all of this.

I hope GW and his Wife are able to enjoy the last days of his Presidency and that he isn't burdened by a tough exit. He too was in a tough position and made lots of tough decisions. I wouldn't have wanted to be in his shoes. I wish him and his Family well.

God Bless America!

ST

[SleestakSooner]

StoopTroup - Thanks for that intelligent and thoughtful response. We need more people to approach things this way from both sides. Working together is the only good way to make it through the road ahead, if the gnashing of teeth and heel dragging continue it will just slow down the process.

Like it or not we all take this journey together, you can try to help navigate or you can sit in the back and ask "Are we there yet?" You can bitch at the driver for running over a nail in the road or you can get out and help change the tire.

I think most Americans are tired of all the fighting and are ready to get to work, but there will always be some that can't abide by doing it the other guy's way. I ain't about to break out singing Cumbaya but all this hatred needs to end, liberalism is not a curse word and republicanism is not a disease. They are just two different means to reaching the same end... a democratic republic, a united states and a less imperfect union.

[Ike]

I have a feeling the markets going up and down (but mostly down) lately has a whole lot more to do with the fact that there is a whole lot of uncertainty about a whole lot of things right now, and very little to do with who's in what office (now, or starting on Jan 20).

The markets are extremely volatile right now. crap goes up, then down, then all over the place. And nobody knows who's gonna survive, and thus, where to put there money.

Come to think of it, I doubt very seriously that any of this has to do with BHO's election, because I think it's hard to determine who is even going to be left around by the time Jan 20 rolls in. Thus I think any fears, or lack thereof, for what BHO might do once in office are completely overshadowed by the uncertainty that already exists in the markets.

[The Maestro]

It's not only hard to believe...it's still just a shock to me that he not only pulled off a win...he won in a landslide.

You make some great points, but people are mistaking a landslide. There have never been more votes AGAINST a Democrat for Prez than in this election. Landslides were Reagan in 1984 and Nixon way back when. This was decisive compared to the last two, but again...55 to 57 milion people voted AGAINST Obama.

[JohnnyMack]

You make some great points, but people are mistaking a landslide. There have never been more votes AGAINST a Democrat for Prez than in this election. Landslides were Reagan in 1984 and Nixon way back when. This was decisive compared to the last two, but again...55 to 57 milion people voted AGAINST Obama.

Obama got more votes than W or Clinton did and won by a larger margin than either of them ever did.

[Harry Beanbag]

I think most Americans are tired of all the fighting and are ready to get to work, but there will always be some that can't abide by doing it the other guy's way.


I still maintain that the majority of Americans just want to be left alone by the government. They don't want to "get to work" helping the government screw us more. The government is the reason for the troubles, not the answer to them.

[The Maestro]

Obama got more votes than W or Clinton did and won by a larger margin than either of them ever did.

That doesn't make it a landslide.

If Team A won by 1 and Team B won by 2 and Team C wins by 7, that doesn't mean Team C won by a landslide.

Most votes ever against a Democratic candidate for Prez = not a landslide

Solid win, but as I said, Reagan winning all states but Mondale's home state of Minnesota = landslide.

Now if Palin is the Repub choice in 2012 against Obama, get ready for a landslide!!!

[The Maestro]

I still maintain that the majority of Americans just want to be left alone by the government. They don't want to "get to work" helping the government screw us more. The government is the reason for the troubles, not the answer to them.

Agreed. My job is not to help Obama and Congress tax us to death for pork projects all over the map. I got a wife and kids to take care of...that's my gig.

[JohnnyMack]

That doesn't make it a landslide.

If Team A won by 1 and Team B won by 2 and Team C wins by 7, that doesn't mean Team C won by a landslide.

Most votes ever against a Democratic candidate for Prez = not a landslide

Solid win, but as I said, Reagan winning all states but Mondale's home state of Minnesota = landslide.

Now if Palin is the Repub choice in 2012 against Obama, get ready for a landslide!!!

Whatever. ST was prolly drunk again when he used the word landslide.

[soonerscuba]

Maestro, more people voted for Obama than voted for Reagan in '84, I'm not quite sure I follow your logic based on sums as opposed to percentage. Either way, it was an *** kicking, the sooner the Republicans get on board with that and get their house in order the better, I don't like one party running the show.

[85Sooner]

85...

You seem like a smart guy.

What I don't understand is this...Your guy lost. It happens sometimes. I was pretty upset when Richard Nixon decided to resign. I think he had some pretty bad ethics problems and technology was getting better at that time and it was a huge temptation to use it to strengthen your position at a time when we really needed a leader to end the Vietnam War.

As an American, who was 12 years old at the time mind you, I was ashamed of how people acted towards our Servicemen and Women returning from the War. I will never get over it either. I vowed to make sure it didn't happen again if I could.

Most everyone in America rallied to the cause this time and have supported our Troops in this one. Yes there have been some who have decided to use their loved ones memory politically (Cindy Sheehan for one) and others who have tried to use their Civil Rights unethically to protest at Funerals of our Fallen Heroes. Something I detest. But for the most part...what we saw happen to our Servicemen and Women in the late 60's and early 70's has not happened. I am very Proud of them all.

It was the Bush Administrations responsibility to rise to the occasion of 9/11 and to make sure that we were no longer in danger of such acts again. It was their responsibility to make sure we captured or killed or brought to justice...every stinking one of them that were responsible for 9/11. We got a lot of them. Not all. Iraq started because of WMD's. We made sure that the UN Inspectors were right. I'm glad we did that.

It's at this point where The Bush Administration began to have lots of problems.

I know you might think John McCain was the best choice of making sure this War concluded in a proper manner....but not only did he fail to sell it...he got put in one of the worst positions a Republican Candidate has faced in American History.

That's not the Dems fault IMO.

That's not Obama's fault IMO.

It's not the American People's fault IMO.

It was The Bush Administrations responsibility. Every bit of it. Just as it was Richard Nixon's responsibility to act in a proper manner as Leader of the Largest Superpower in the World in the 70's....it was GW's responsibility to do the same.

I think his administration tried to turn it around a few times too. Tony Snow was absolutely one of the best moves they made in the last term. His loss hurt GW's exit IMO. I wish God would have given him a little longer on this Earth to let him help GW with his exit. Colin Powell leaving...hurt GW. Rumsfeld stayed way to long. The list of mistakes is long. Yes there were some accomplishments too. I think lots of folks such as yourself could maybe start helping GW with his exit by putting to bed your concerns for the new Leadership right now.

Our country is facing a very serious change in Leadership and I think Obama deserves a chance to try and at least not make things worse.

We've all heard what was going to happen if he was elected....but none of us have even had the opportunity to watch any of it yet.

With all great battles...there needs to be a cooling off period.

John McCain and Barack Obama just battled it out. Obama even battled it out with Hillary Clinton to get his party's nomination. What he did is incredible IMO. It's not only hard to believe...it's still just a shock to me that he not only pulled off a win...he won in a landslide.

I remember hearing when I was a kid that anyone could someday become POTUS if they studied hard enough and applied themselves.

I always thought that was something that made this Country great.

My faith is restored in that for now.

I feel bad for John McCain though as he is a Great American who faced some of the toughest times this Nation has had to endure since his capture in Vietnam. He had a great exit speech and will always have a place in my heart. I felt his disappointment as he had to stand there and give his speech...but I also saw why he is a Great American. The people voted. It's time to make sure we continue to work hard to keep this Country great. I believe he will try as a Senator to not make things worse and as Americans, I think we should support his vision at this time.

His exit speech wasn't something he just threw together....it was a message...I message I think that was overlooked by disappointment.

I hope President Elect Obama is able to strengthen America by bringing it together. I heard he didn't take a day off after the election too. I heard he said..."It's time to get to work".

I'm gonna give it some time before I start reacting to all of this.

I hope GW and his Wife are able to enjoy the last days of his Presidency and that he isn't burdened by a tough exit. He too was in a tough position and made lots of tough decisions. I wouldn't have wanted to be in his shoes. I wish him and his Family well.

God Bless America!

ST

I agree with just about everything and you and I are the same age. I am pessimistically cautious with Obama. I feel he should have his chance. His win electorally was huge but the country is still pretty evenly split.

His choice of Rahm does not lend itself to his notion of bipartisan. How would a pub be looked at, if he sent a pollster that he disagreed with, a dead fish?

That said O has a hell of a road ahead of him. Russia is already rattling the chains, Israel is warning against relations with Iran. In addition to ,alot of the promises he made were made without the full knowledge of national security issues. I think alot of Black folks are looking for something from him that he simply cannot deliver.

If his cronies try to reinstitute the fairness doctrine there is gonna be hell to pay and a huge supreme court battle.

We will have to wait and see exactly what he does with the Tax situation.

With the dem leaders that are in (pelosi and reid) have no intention of being bi partisan. They are going to tell him its their way or the highway. Mark my word on that. They will let him know, Try to be bipartisan and they will do to him what the dem leaders and their bunch did to Carter. Don't be Bipartisan and the people will knock him out in 2-4 years.

All I can do is hope that all goes well. Especially with regard to foreign relations.

Meanwhile the Pubs better get someone with the brains and balls of Gingrich to get the train back on the track.

[soonerscuba]

Pelosi will be a ballbuster because that's her job, the role of a House minority member is to provide quorum and pick up a paycheck. However, I will be very interested to see what happens with Reid, he has to be relatively bipartisan because the Senate is a deliberative body under unanimous consent, which means that each Senator (including Republicans) have much more say in the process.

As for Lieberman, that has nothing to do with bipartisanship, they're going to kick his *** out the party, and rightfully so.

[85Sooner]

Pelosi will be a ballbuster because that's her job, the role of a House minority member is to provide quorum and pick up a paycheck. However, I will be very interested to see what happens with Reid, he has to be relatively bipartisan because the Senate is a deliberative body under unanimous consent, which means that each Senator (including Republicans) have much more say in the process.

As for Lieberman, that has nothing to do with bipartisanship, they're going to kick his *** out the party, and rightfully so.

Why kick him out. They ( the dem party) tried to force him out so he lawfully ran as an independent and won. He still votes with them most of the time. He just disagrees on theoir stance with regard to natl security. They will try to threaten him but he will be holding the trump card along with McCain as probably the only two who can get the repubs to answer the phone when the dems need somthin......

[mdklatt]

You make some great points, but people are mistaking a landslide. There have never been more votes AGAINST a Democrat for Prez than in this election.


Er, have there ever been more votes AGAINST a Republican?


The Bushies were running around screaming "Mandate! Mandate! Mandate!" in 2004 in the closest election you could have without--ahem--getting the Supreme Court involved. Obama's margin in the both the popular vote and the electoral vote was greater than Bush's margins in the last two elections combined.

[SoonerTerry]

I have blood in my stool... DAMN THAT OBAMA!!!...

[mdklatt]

The hypocrisy is so predictable, and yet still so aggravating.



[Obama] may have opened the door to enactment of the long-deferred liberal agenda, but he neither received a broad mandate from the public nor the needed large congressional majorities.




Of course it is [a mandate]. It’s a 3.5 million vote margin. But the people who are saying that it isn’t a mandate are the same people who were predicting that John Kerry would win.


http://thinkprogress.org/2008/11/05/novak-mandate/

[Harry Beanbag]

Neither one was a mandate.

[StoopTroup]

I agree with just about everything and you and I are the same age. I am pessimistically cautious with Obama. I feel he should have his chance. His win electorally was huge but the country is still pretty evenly split.

His choice of Rahm does not lend itself to his notion of bipartisan. How would a pub be looked at, if he sent a pollster that he disagreed with, a dead fish?

That said O has a hell of a road ahead of him. Russia is already rattling the chains, Israel is warning against relations with Iran. In addition to ,a lot of the promises he made were made without the full knowledge of national security issues. I think alot of Black folks are looking for something from him that he simply cannot deliver.

If his cronies try to reinstitute the fairness doctrine there is gonna be hell to pay and a huge supreme court battle.

We will have to wait and see exactly what he does with the Tax situation.

With the dem leaders that are in (pelosi and reid) have no intention of being bi partisan. They are going to tell him its their way or the highway. Mark my word on that. They will let him know, Try to be bipartisan and they will do to him what the dem leaders and their bunch did to Carter. Don't be Bipartisan and the people will knock him out in 2-4 years.

All I can do is hope that all goes well. Especially with regard to foreign relations.

Meanwhile the Pubs better get someone with the brains and balls of Gingrich to get the train back on the track.

I think optimistically cautious is a positive way to approach Obama right now. I do think lots of folks got the wrong impression from this guy and that he was suddenly going to "Change" who he was once he got into the Presidency. I "Hope" that's not true...because if he suddenly tries to turn our Country into a Welfare State instead of being a Diplomat, or work on Health Care, raise taxes more than he said he would...people in this Country will turn on him faster than Superman dodging a speeding bullet.

I just want to give President Elect Obama a chance to do something he said he was going to do.

What's changed in this Country is that we can no longer use terms like..."I'm just giving him enough rope or mentioning his name and the premise of a speeding bullet.

I wish him well. I think Joe Biden nailed it by saying that there will be a test. The Commander in Chief debates are over now.

If it's time for change...it's definitely time to write your Congressman or Congresswoman when you disagree with things that are on the road ahead. Watching CSPAN and informing yourself will be important in the next year.

Shows like "Meet the Press" and the like will be important too IMO.

There will possibly be more opportunity in this Country in the next four years than ever. I'm not going to waste anytime bitching about the past or what the future is going to be...I'm going to make use of every minute of everyday.

If President Elect Obama fails to put an end to even the possibility that OBL/UBL is alive or that Justice has been served...I'll be all over him the same as I was GWB.

Bi-partisanship? I'll believe that when I see it. That's some pie in the sky stuff for me as far as what President Elect Obama said he wants to accomplish. That's the stuff that will bog down his attempt to accomplish anything here at Home. I wish him luck. I'll believe it when I see it though.

Chin up folks.

We have four rough years ahead of us. Let's make the most of it.

ST

[Jerk]

I really like Newt Gingrich, but man, you talk about a man with serious skeletons in his closet. Sure, everyone has them, but his are pretty bad.

[King Crimson]

you GOP people should start looking to the future and not the old timey "who's going to be the new Reagan" crap. or nostalgia for teh Contract and Newt.


the Red Dawn political mentality is getting you nowhere....outside the knee-jerk "Obama is a commie" you were election arced into foaming at the mouth about.

[Jerk]

the Red Dawn political mentality is getting you nowhere....outside the knee-jerk "Obama is a commie" you were election arced into foaming at the mouth about.

Sorry. Can't help it. Ever since I saw that movie as a young boy, I have fantasized about AK-47's, paratroopers landing in school yards, shooting commies before they mow down innocent Americans singing our anthem, drinking deer blood, living off the land. Don't you sit there and tell me I bought all of this sh*t for nothing:mad: Red Dawn is the best training video of all time!!!!!!

And - btw - Do you realize we will have a half a billion screaming chinese on our side? Do you want to know what happened to the other half a billion?

[lexsooner]

you GOP people should start looking to the future and not the old timey "who's going to be the new Reagan" crap. or nostalgia for teh Contract and Newt.


the Red Dawn political mentality is getting you nowhere....outside the knee-jerk "Obama is a commie" you were election arced into foaming at the mouth about.

The GOP will have to redefine itself to stay relevant in the future. The illegal immigration issue may not be foremost in American minds right now, but how the GOP handles it in the future is key to whether or not it can win the White House in the future, as the Hispanic population increases and Texas, Fla, Arizona, NM, and other traditionally red states become blue due to legal immigration. If the GOP continues its current views on illegal immigration, count on Hispanics to vote overwhelmingly for the Dems. If the GOP cannot win Cali, Texas, Florida, Arizona, NM, and the NE states are blue anyway, forget it - the Dems keep the White House, at least most of the time.

Oh, and the GOP has to convince people it is truly the party of fiscal responsibility and responsible government. The last eight years have done serious damage to this claim. And the family values party crap ain't gonna work in the future.

[85Sooner]

The GOP will have to redefine itself to stay relevant in the future. The illegal immigration issue may not be foremost in American minds right now, but how the GOP handles it in the future is key to whether or not it can win the White House in the future, as the Hispanic population increases and Texas, Fla, Arizona, NM, and other traditionally red states become blue due to legal immigration. If the GOP continues its current views on illegal immigration, count on Hispanics to vote overwhelmingly for the Dems. If the GOP cannot win Cali, Texas, Florida, Arizona, NM, and the NE states are blue anyway, forget it - the Dems keep the White House, at least most of the time.

Oh, and the GOP has to convince people it is truly the party of fiscal responsibility and responsible government. The last eight years have done serious damage to this claim. And the family values party crap ain't gonna work in the future.

Absolutely. Lead the way you talk Fiscal Responsibility, Responsible gov and keep your **** out out of he picture. That will take care of itself.

[StoopTroup]

Absolutely. Lead the way you talk Fiscal Responsibility, Responsible gov and keep your **** out out of he picture. That will take care of itself.

Yep.

It's why John didn't make it.

After seeing what happened after the Election results were announced...I'm kind of glad it went the way it did. I'm not sure I could have stomached four to eight years more whining and calling BS by the Liberals.

The Liberals aren't the ones who got Obama elected IMO. They had better recheck what the guy they voted for said. Obama should also remember to make damn sure he concentrates on the major issues he talked about too.

Our Country wanted a Leader.

Come January 20th...I hope we get what we need.