How To Fix OUr Issues

[Johnny Utah]

I'm taking the liberty of starting this thread per the request of Damian Mackey...2000 NC and (according to DM himself) the glue to the receiver core before injury. Please fix away Mr. Mackey.

[Collier11]

I just wonder why it is a guy who played wr has the answers but Bob Stoops and Brent venables dont have them? Im not dogging anyone who posts in this thread with "the answers" just wondering? To DM, do you think it is stubborness or what as the reason why Stoops hasnt fixed this problem that has been going on for several yrs now. You played for all of these guys and know how they are personally so if this zone we run is out of date, why hasnt Stoops and BV realized this?

[The Maestro]

Damian, promise me the halfback pass is not part of the solution!!!

Should be interesting...and what IF this dmack13 is someone tricky enough to use the interlink as a means of pushing their agenda and came up with a creative name and way to spread that agenda? Either way, should be interesting...this place would be more interesting with more former Sooners...or folks pretending to be!

[hink4769]

I'm not saying that Damian doesn't know what he's talking about, but just because he makes a point don't think of it as infallible. There are alot of former players and coaches on TV that don't seem to know a lick about football.

[dmack13]

i just posted this LONG drawn out post and it erased...
first i'll apologize and i think i'll break it up this time...

sorry

but i promise, our problems start with what im about to explain

dm13

[dmack13]

all of you make great points about "what's wrong with the crimson and cream"
and yes, our scheme is old and vanilla...and yes its easy to get on BV and wander "what if we still had mike" (i'll get on that later because he is sorely missed) but the biggest difference in our team now from the good ole days just a few yrs ago is family.

let me explain...ima take everyone here back to a place that i know you all remember. its october in 2000 and we've just beat Kansas at home in not a pretty game and we were unproven and untested headed into UT (top 15 at the time) KSU (top 5) and UN (#1) with A&M to follow on the road for good measures...

a lot of outsiders didn't think we had the talent, but i'd bet you 10,000 on a foot race between that team (meaning 2000 and 2001) and any team since and i bet we win easily, but that's another story. my point is we knew we were gonna have to take it to another level and not just on the field.

go back to tha little apple and watch that game again, that team was big, strong, fast and very intimidating. that team would have blitzed colt mccoy until head hurt and would have been wiling to give up a couple big plays to let him know they were bullies. and the only reason we were able to beat them, and overcome Q1 against UN and take UT's nuts away is because we were never playing for ourselves on that field. we played for the team.

cont...

[dmack13]

damn,

it did it again...

anyways, that team and many other championship teams loved eachother. when we played K-State i remember Josh calling the huddle looking like he was about to throw up and thinking (i know everyone was thinking the same thing) i gotta get open and help my qb. how do you think the o-line held their blocks for that extra half second, and why the RB's chose to stay up on the blitz instead of cut (and maybe miss) or why josh held the ball one extra second, knowing cooper was coming to take his head off, to hit andre in the back of the end zone and not even see the score because he was picking himself off of the turf? family!

during our days we ALL had off the field relationships with each other, from the black guys to the white guys, and the 1st string to 3rd string, from the offense to defense, and even the scholly guys to the walk ones.

i went duck hunting with mike skinner and frank (and loved it..even though i froze my butt off) and we took trent to the club with us and got him VIP treatment and he loved it.

cont...

[dmack13]

when AD was playing, the offense and defense didn't even like eachother and when he told me that i was very surprised. and i can see it in their eyes...when it hits the fan, its every sooner for himself trying to CYA.

now go back to that OU/Texas game a few weeks ago, and tell me Texas had 1 skill guy who could start over ours...you can't! but they sure as hell played like they were better...or should i say it meant more. and just like i said i could see it in OUr guys eyes that it didn't matter THAT much, i could see it in the UT guys eyes that they would do WHATEVER to win....tell me im lying...you can't!

and its funny because that's what we ALWAYS had in our favor as we went 3-1 in the RRSO...we knew we wanted it more, we knew it, they knew it, and they knew that we knew they didn't want it like we did..and so in that big moment we'd take what we knew was rightfully ours.

cont...

[dmack13]

in football 95% of the time 8 plays decide who will win...
eight "3rd and 4's" that you either stop them and seize the momentum or allow them to get it and keep the momentum. all this "hurry up" and "spread" and "run and gun" is irrelevant because those eight plays will decide the game, and when your WHOLE team, from the walk on long snapper (jeremy hess) to the 1st round ALL AMERICAN (roy williams/AD) want it more than the opponent...you create your own luck, you get a fluke pick in college station, you get your butt kicked for 15 minutes at home against the #1 team in america and decide not to quit...and hold them to 3 1st downs until the 4th quarter...and refuse to loose a game in stillwater you had no business winning. i like to call it NUTS...Gorilla NUTS! and right now, we have none, no family, no passion, no NUTS...and it kills me to watch us play because as much as i like to watch us play both offense and defense has mental lapses when we can least afford it.

think about it...what happens after we try to step on the opponent's neck in a game...we allow a long return on the kick off. how many 3rd and 5's have we dropped, when it was a perfect pass, felt in wouldn't be a big deal, then saw the offense punt 3 straight times after? yea...thats nuts, that's desire, that's family...don't drop the ball for my boys, don't let them down...

cont...

[Collier11]

so what you are saying is that all the black guys need to get the white guys lap dances at the clubs? JK! I see what you are sayin, I dont know anything on the inside so who knows what goes on with the team although I have heard that this yrs team is pretty close but you will never win a Natl title unless you care about the guy next to you more than you care about yourself in any sport

[Collier11]

in football 95% of the time 8 plays decide who will win...
eight "3rd and 4's" that you either stop them and seize the momentum or allow them to get it and keep the momentum. all this "hurry up" and "spread" and "run and gun" is irrelevant because those eight plays will decide the game, and when your WHOLE team, from the walk on long snapper (jeremy hess) to the 1st round ALL AMERICAN (roy williams/AD) want it more than the opponent...you create your own luck, you get a fluke pick in college station, you get your butt kicked for 15 minutes at home against the #1 team in america and decide not to quit...and hold them to 3 1st downs until the 4th quarter...and refuse to loose a game in stillwater you had no business winning. i like to call it NUTS...Gorilla NUTS! and right now, we have none, no family, no passion, no NUTS...and it kills me to watch us play because as much as i like to watch us play both offense and defense has mental lapses when we can least afford it.

think about it...what happens after we try to step on the opponent's neck in a game...we allow a long return on the kick off. how many 3rd and 5's have we dropped, when it was a perfect pass, felt in wouldn't be a big deal, then saw the offense punt 3 straight times after? yea...thats nuts, that's desire, that's family...don't drop the ball for my boys, don't let them down...

cont...

I realize I am cutting in before you are done again but in your opinion, is this on Stoops or the players? Is there anything that Stoops is doing differently or are the players just more selfish that he is recruiting?

I know ive heard several times from Stoops and BV that all they can do is put the players in the right position but eventually they have to make plays so is our defensive problem more about players playing selfishly rather than trusting the coaches? If so, why the past few yrs has this happened?

[dmack13]

im sorry, but i've been there and i know what it takes to get to the promise land and its NOT LUCK...you make your luck, you earn your luck and they haven't as of yet. as much as i hate to say it TEXAS is doing that now, they have that fire, and it sucks because i remember in 00 when we beat them by like 50, their whole defense was congratulating us in the 3rd quarter and i was thinking "they are pussies...there's no way i'd be saying that if the shoe was on the other foot"

i thought their whole program was pussies from the players to the coaches to the ball boys, to the managers, and now i sit and wander about our team.
BOB...was the BEST motivator in the WORLD...what he said on saturdays God to us...seriously. we would run through brick walls for him. now i feel like we're trying to out scheme people and we've lost focus on hitting people in the mouth.

that's our biggest issue and until its fixed we will be disappointed everytime we play a team who wants it bad.

NOW...from a field perspective, i feel we need to come up and man up on receivers more and put more conventional pressure on qb's

go back and watch the 03 NCG and you'll see two even matched teams. one played bump man with the safeties free to blitz, rob and ball hawk (LSU) and brought major pressure slanting. and the other played off allowed a horrible qb, freshman running back and anemic offense put up more points then our record breaking offense. a night when j-dubb (jason white) got hit so much, by the 3rd quarter he was falling over himself because he thought pressure was coming...

cont...

[dmack13]

ahh...ALL high school all stars are selfish...hell i was, roy was, j hunt was, rocky was...all of us! and as much as i want to give bob the credit for making that chemistry, its the players who have to do it. truthfully, t-marshall wasn't a good guy..he was a jerk, so was rocky, and ontei jones...a lot of guys. but they put that aside for the team

[dmack13]

coaches don't win games, players do! and OU looks soft to me now, i know how BOB coaches and he ain't soft, i know how BV coaches and he aint soft...he's defense is vanilla and kinda old, but his backers are supposed to be smart and Hit your head off...

i think our players are weak minded. we NEVER overcome adversity anymore! even against a K-State we drop one ball and all the sudden we can't block, we can't catch, we can't punt, or even tackle...that's NUTs and we don't have em anymore

[dmack13]

we don't need a new coach, we don't need new players, what we need is a change in mentality and i know Bob is preaching it, but the players have to really believe it. otherwise we'll 10-2 every year, but secretly know we weren't good enough to beat the best of the best.

now i will say that college football is BIG business and if one piece of the puzzle isn't fitting and hasn't been since "it" got sole accountability over its job, at some point it only makes sense to go in another direction and try to breath new air into the company (take that for what you want, but you won't get me to bad mouth my coaches...but business is business)

[dmack13]

if anyone has questions...just ask! i tell the truth

[DallasSooner87]

Why do you think after we lose one player the wheels come off? Shouldn't the other players be able to motivate the team to a new level? ie Sam against tech last year (although we still almost won) and RR this year. I know part is game experience of the replacement player but there has to be something more.

[Fraggle145]

our scheme is old and vanilla...and yes its easy to get on BV and wander "what if we still had mike" (i'll get on that later because he is sorely missed)

Please continue on this point...

[OU_Sooners75]

dmack...I agree to a point with what you said. But there comes a time that one must start thinking that it has to do with more than what you mentioned.

When I played, the Defense and Offense hated each other in practice. However, when it came time off the field and on game day, we loved each other and played as a team. I agree, you do not see much embracing between units when the offense scores or the defense gets a turnover.

However, I think there is something differnet going on. I don't know what. But when you run the same defense every freaking game, any decent minded OC can and will destory it.

Luck is not a given, I agree. But why are we suffering a lot of injuries lately? Are they not playing at 100%? I was coached that if you do not play at 100% every play, you will get hurt. Why arent our backups not ready to fill in? That is either a player not grasping the grand scheme of things or a coaching problem. And since 2001 there has been plenty of injuries, unfortunately, and there have been plenty of players not ready to fill in and play their role. That is a coaching problem!

More Questions...
Why not ask Coach Stoops to address the team? You are still part of the Sooner Family, why not step up and start being part of it again?

I am pretty sure some of these players know who you are and since you are not a coach, they may listen to you and other former players moreso than the coaches.

[dmack13]

its very funny that you should say that, because before AD's last season, Roy and I came to Norman and Bob begged us to talk to the team...SERIOUSLY. Roy ripped into their butts, Roy even called smitty a *****. trust me, we see the same thing you guys see and we are concerned. the problem is this, at that time i still personally knew 60% of the team and EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM, aside from AD who personally came to me and was like "i'm glad roy cussed us out" all the players were like "fuk roy, who does he think he is..."
and im not here to gossip, but when i heard that, i was like WOW. i remember sitting in the red room and getting cussed out by GREAT after GREAT after GREAT...and although it wasn't like roy (roy doesn't cuss and is very spiritual) when he cussed every 3 words, those greats made us feel like crap and we knew we had to prove them wrong...these guys, they missed the whole msg.

and again, our defense is out dated PERIOD. there's nothing else to say about that, the "Zone Blitz" scheme is now no good because you have to know where the qb will be and with all the running qb's they are rarely there and even if they are, they can get away.

USC, tOSU, LSU, BAMA, UG etc, they out athlete you. they force the qb where they want him to be by slanting the d-line a blitzing the opposite side, while corners lock up and safeties can read the qb's eyes under duress. makes for plenty of TO's and huge CONFIDENCE...the defense is making big plays and the qb is scared...see my comment above about KSU 2000

[badger]

But if all this is true, what can the coaches do, other than recruit guys who will want it more?

[BornandBred]

Have the players become soft with all that OU has to offer? I feel like now they've got some sort of sense of entitlement, where, in 2000 they were always the underdogs and looking to prove something. How do you counter this?

[SoonersEnFuego]

i went duck hunting with mike skinner...
I'm surprised you came back alive. He was a dumbass. I saw him run his truck into a ditch behind an apartment complex because he thought his 2 wheel drive truck could make it across the 5 foot deep trench. You're lucky to be here today.

[OUmillenium]

DM has some of the greatest stuff ever posted on this board, and I agree with it.

[dmack13]

shh...don't tell anyone, but i think from the top down, everyone has gotten a little soft, bob and smitty included. i don't think its a sense of entitlement, only because "what have they done on the field" conference championships are great if you are OSU, or Tech, Mizzo, but even though we told the world we were going for a conference championship, we are after bigger things after we beat UN at home. it was taboo to publically talk about it, but we all talked about it behind closed doors, bob included. im going to the osu game next month and i am going to practice twice that week to see about our boys. i wanna see how hard they practice, i wanna see if they treat it like a game, i just don't think they really understand what "really wanting it" is anymore...they think they do, but they don't. i see guys working hard individually on plays, but then one dumb butt loafs and kills the potentially long run...and just like everyone else, i see the lack of adjustments, or the inability to improvise by our coaches. after RR got hurt and in the 3rd quarter they started dominating, we should have had something we could do beside the same ole same ole that hadn't work on drives before. i know WE had that. when josh hurt his elbow we literally changed the playbook to quick slants and hooks all across the field. occasionally someone would sneak deep but he just couldn't throw and that happened in K-State. and i know Mike changed the whole Defense on the sideline against UN when their package got demolished in the 1st quarter...but i don't see it anymore

[Landthief 1972]

Assuming this is really Damian, I find this wholly depressing, but not unlike what I've been thinking for a few years. No fire, no passion, just me me me.

[boomermagic]

I'll tell you what I think... I think THE TEAM should read this and Bob should let DMack13 speak to the entire team because I think he is correct...

[boomermagic]

My opinion,,


Sit guys on the bench who are loafers.. I don't give a damn if he is a great player or not If he wants to loaf half the time put a guy in there who wants to play..

[NormanPride]

Meh, if what dmack says is true, the players would just think he's some former player that doesn't know what he's talking about.

[boomermagic]

Meh, if what dmack says is true, the players would just think he's some former player that doesn't know what he's talking about.


What have we got to lose ? Can't hurt...

[dmack13]

lol...
this is me...a closet nerd who loved football, i knew NUTHIN about OU football, infact i almost went to texas, if mack brown wouldn't have come in i woulda been a long horn..i liked the colors...

well really had i not turn my knee up i would never have left cali (Stanford) and roy woulda been at UCLA.

i don't think its depressing because its fixable, i don't think this season (not meaning we can't win tho...cus we have plenty enough talent) we can fix it because you address those problems in the off-season. i also like the fact that we don't have 10 johnny 5 star guys, coming in...hopefully more glue guys, i wasn't a super star, but ran that safety off to get c-fagan open, i caught the 3rd and 8 to keep drives going, i was on the kickoff team, punt team, kick off return and punt return...we did it all, and didn't cry about it.

damn i haven't written this much since college, but thinking about it pisses me off. we are a finesse team...we just are.

is it me or do we not HIT people anymore?

[primetime43]

This is everything I've been thinking the since the LSU game! We don't have the swagger anymore.

[NormanPride]

We hit people when our confidence is up. Loftin hit people last year, and Lewis and Reynolds hit people this year. Reynolds was the heart and soul of the D, but he went out against texas... I heard people saying that Lewis and Venables were almost in tears when they learned Reynolds was out for good. I think the D is still learning how to be a unit again without their MVP.

[boomermagic]

We hit people when our confidence is up. Loftin hit people last year, and Lewis and Reynolds hit people this year. Reynolds was the heart and soul of the D, but he went out against texas... I heard people saying that Lewis and Venables were almost in tears when they learned Reynolds was out for good. I think the D is still learning how to be a unit again without their MVP.

They need to be fast learners... They don't have much time...

[BoulderSooner79]

dmack - I've been carrying the same banner here. That things are fixable, but not this season. That's why I stay out of the "fire BV" threads - it comes across as just so much whining and just doesn't seem appropriate for a mid-season discussion.

But if it is not fixable this season, is it improvable this season and how? As you say we can still win due to talent and I think there is still a lot to play for this season even if the title game is out of reach. Thanks.

[achiro]

is it me or do we not HIT people anymore?

**** no we don't hit people anymore. We stand there 2 yards off and watch the reciever catch the ball, then run up and tackle him by the feet. This has been my main complaint for a while now. If Shipley had gotten drilled a couple of times on those crossover routes they may have had to gone to something else. Instead the d stood behind him and watched him catch the ball the entire second half.

[MojoRisen]

Hopefully we can take these next 2 games and get our players to Gel, i think a good amount of them are worried about screwing up more than they can be hungry at this point - based on age.

Let's hope they can let there hair down against NU and A&M. NU is better than KSU though and we will need to be prepared for them definsively although I think we can outscore them by 21 points.

OU has covered the spread in everygame this year except Texas. FYI

[Dan Thompson]

Watch out for NUs short passes over the middle and if NU has a DE that is faster than Loadholt we better double team him.

dmak13

I truly think that you posts are the best and most moving that I have read on this board. TALK TO THE PLAYERS.

[dmack13]

our defense is not tough, i liken lewis to calmus, he didn't hit people in the mouth, he was just all over the field making plays...like lewis. lewis doesn't scare you because he's a technician. the way we start to fix the problem this year is for the players to have a players only mtg where the leaders established what will be tolerated on the practice fields and in games. it starts in practice...has to! if a player makes a mental mistake in pratice his team mate should be beating BV to him to cuss him out, or coach him up depending on how many times it is. because believe it or not, like 85% of people are followers and if the leaders aren't held accountable, the indians will follow suit. guys like hype, and rocky, and t-marshall (after a few heart to hearts) wouldn't let us quit...and after a while we were checking them in return and before you know it, you have like 50 leaders on your team, walk ons to super stars...

guys practice sucks, especially from 6am til 8am then from 145pm to 7pm and then homework and hopefully a soft body to lay next to that night...only to do it again and again and again. after a while you need something outside of yourself to keep you on edge and everytime you see your brother giving his all when he wants to quit it makes you wanna do the same...

[The Maestro]

This is great freaking stuff. DMack, I couldn't agree with you more on the "not hitting" thing. It drove me nuts the whole Texas game how when we got to Colt we drug him to the ground or swirled him until he spun to the ground. Pop the F'er in the mouth and be pissed he wants to beat you!!

Meanwhile, last week I saw OSU pop Colt late in the game and he fumbled.

Question for you and something you mentioned but haven't addressed yet. The loss of Mike Stoops. Now some question is recruiting skills, but he obviously had a fire out there and it seemed to go over to the players. I have seen Venables at Sooner Fashion Mall a few years back with his wife and then baby...he seemed like such a great guy, but not a fire breathing menace like Mike Stoops. Living in AZ, I was able to sit by Mike Stoops at the OU NCAA hoops game a few years ago and this was when he was already at Arizona. He squirmed, yelled at the refs and acted like his heart and soul was in this game. This basketball game for a school he didn't even coach at anymore. You could tell OU was still in his blood and I admired him for that. Did something leave our defense when he left? Attitude? I mean, if I coached defense before every possession I would tell my guys, "Those A-holes want to embarrass you and score on us...be offended and go hit somebody! See you back here in three plays if not less for a turnover!"

Oh, and thanks for coming on here...let me know if you are ever out in Phoenix...lots of Sooners out here would enjoy taking you around town!

[dmack13]

i think you answered your own question. the thing is, i wasn't on the team after he left so i don't know what BV changed if anything after his departure. but exactly what you said about the fire in his eyes is what our players seem to lack now, that i know for sure we had. i NEVER see the defense get in an offensive guy's face and say "score tha damn ball, and we'll get it right back you guys put those 'female dogs' away!" that's how we got down!!!!
i never see the offensive guys grab a db or lb by the shoulder pads and say..."give us the damn ball back...now"
we would bet which side of the ball could dominate more and even if we were up 20 the defense would hold us accountable and the "O" would do the same...DON'T SEE ANY OF THAT ANYMORE!!!

[FaninAma]

**** no we don't hit people anymore. We stand there 2 yards off and watch the reciever catch the ball, then run up and tackle him by the feet. This has been my main complaint for a while now. If Shipley had gotten drilled a couple of times on those crossover routes they may have had to gone to something else. Instead the d stood behind him and watched him catch the ball the entire second half.

Shipley and Cosby should never, ever be able to get off the line of scrimmage cleanly. If OU doesn't have 2 DBs that can out-physical those 2 runts then we need to recruit some better DB's. Have you seen what a runt Cosby is when he lines up in the huddle?

It was obvious from the 1st quarter on that Shipley was McCoy's security blanket. one of our DBs should have gotten in his grill at the LOS on every single play. Let McCoy run the ball and scramble around. Sooner or later it will catch up with him.

Go back and look at what OSU did to Shipley in the 3rd and 4th quarters. They manned up on him and held him up on the line of scrimmage. Then you could see McCoy look his way and sort of panick. That's when he started to try and force the ball and suffered the 2 interceptions(one negated by the penalty) and lost a fumble on a scramble.

If TT and every other team that plays Texas doesn't employ this same plan their defensive coordinators should be taken out and shot.

I guarantee you that Texas will be in trouble if they get matched up with a physical D like those in the SEC, USC's or even Penn State's.

[NormanPride]

I know we had a players only meeting before washington and the players played like their hair was on fire. Sure the Qb got free a couple times, but Reynolds made him think about it!

I hope there are some current players watching this thread, because even if they're not the "leaders" or whatever, they can still step up and challenge the starters. And anyone who doesn't like being called out by a walk-on should either get better or go home.

[The Maestro]

Shipley and Cosby should never, ever be able to get off the line of scrimmage cleanly. If OU doesn't have 2 DBs that can out-physical those 2 runts then we need to recruit some better DB's. Have you seen what a runt Cosby is when he lines up in the huddle?

It was obvious from the 1st quarter on that Shipley was McCoy's security blanket. one of our DBs should have gotten in his grill at the LOS on every single play. Let McCoy run the ball and scramble around. Sooner or later it will catch up with him.

Go back and look at what OSU did to Shipley in the 3rd and 4th quarters. They manned up on him and held him up on the line of scrimmage. Then you could see McCoy look his way and sort of panick. That's when he started to try and force the ball and suffered the 2 interceptions(one negated by the penalty) and lost a fumble on a scramble.

If TT and every other team that plays Texas doesn't employ this same plan their defensive coordinators should be taken out and shot.

I guarantee you that Texas will be in trouble if they get matched up with a physical D like those in the SEC, USC's or even Penn State's.

AMEN and AMEN!!! Colt and Shipley are roommates and have probably determined where each other will be on the field at all times. They know each other well. Knock Shipley off the route for that target and boom...trouble.

[8timechamps]

Reading this post is like reading a book written by a former Sooner. Given that dmac played during a very special time in Sooner history, I'd be the first one in line to buy that book!

Very insightful.

[Remembering Tom Stidham]

I have never wanted a team to win more than Tech this Saturday. They can lose the next Saturday.

[rainiersooner]

D-Mack - thanks for the post; one of the most valuable 45 minutes I've ever spent on this board.

BOOMER!!!

[Collier11]

Ive said it before and ill say it again, we need someone like Everage who isnt afraid to damage his body cus that guy scared the hell out of the other teams...I still remember that hit he put on the Air Force kid that I thought killed him

[dmack13]

i agree, we don't have an enforcer on our defense. in our day, we had Roy, T-Marshall, Book (everage as a young pup), and OJ who would light you up if you came over the middle without your head on a swivel, then we had rocky cleaning up all the messes and JT playing center field as a ball hawk...and the whole d-line was full over over achievers who didn't wanna be known as the weak link, and they weren't.

Right now, i think the DB's have their hands tied behind their backs, too much zone means you only hear a safety's name when he's gotten beaten because he's never robbing anything. we have damn good corners (in my humble opinion) but they NEVER get to get physical. in fact i think our corners might be more naturally physical then our safeties. Holmes is a corner playing safety and Nic is just a big athlete...he isn't really a "safety"...he runs around and makes plays but doesn't hit folks too often. I love our out side backers and think next year they will be a force..and box in the middle will be a good player, his instincts looked fine and his demeanor looked good, just too wet behind the ears last week.

our d-line would be the best in america if they didn't have to "zone" blitz and could slant like 40% of the time.

in zone blitz 75% of blitzers have to sacrifice themselves to get other's to come freely (at least in premise) and so only a couple of guys truly have thier motors running on any given blitz. with a true "man" coverage blitz, its a meeting at the qb where the DB's allow no easy stuff and when done best you run one safety into the box on the snap to disrupt things and the other is 15 yds deep reading the qb who knows he only has like 2 seconds to throw.

the backers who don't blitz play "zone man" meaning they man up on anyone who crosses their face or hits their zone and that extra safety is coming into the box to close a natural alley the qb might find to run, or draw, or screen.

but now you have a lot of things working to your advantage...

1 if you out recruit your opponent, you have better pieces to play with
2 once you do it a few times its easy to show it but really be in zone and screw up offensive chemistry
3 the qb has ALL the pressure and many will crack
4 when it works, teams get out of the spread and want to protect their qb with pro style formations
5 a lot of times teams quit wayy before the final whistle blows

the risk is obviously big plays, but damn "we haven't given up any of those"
but one missed tackle or blown coverage can kill you.

but remember ALL your blitzers are coming with their hair on fire, not just the guy who got in free last week in practice...

just my thoughts

again watch LSU 03

[The Maestro]

DMack...what is with our "delayed" blitz? I freaking hate seeing a guy blitzing a few seconds after the snap and seems to get to the QB a second or two after he throws the ball. What is the freaking point of the blitz if you delay it? You just give the QB more time and then no one is there in coverage where you would have been!!!

Oh, and what do you think about the offense at times TRYING LIKE HELL to establish the inside running game when the passing game is clicking? Do you REALLY need that balance or do you think it is overrated? I just hated seeing our offense come out and do 2 quick three and outs for 1 yard each time to start the second half and you knew it was going to start with inside running plays that, if I knew were coming, surely KSU did, too!

[The Maestro]

Oh, and screw Dr. Lou...this is great stuff! Ask DMack! A new segment here on soonerfans.com!

[BoonesFarmSooner]

Hey Maestro... This DMack is a lot smarter than our DMack!

[The Maestro]

Hey Maestro... This DMack is a lot smarter than our DMack!

Yeah, I almost feel bad calling him DMack...but this one has better answers than "where to catch a bus in Phoenix"!!

[dmack13]

the delayed blitz should be a sub-package...
when done right it works, but we do it like its "bread and butter"
with regard to running the ball, we definitely need to go with whats clicking, but drops kill drives fast, and an o-line that hasn't had to run block all game will have a tough time run blocking when you need that 7minute drive in the fourth quarter. in my oppinion, i feel like we've address the 2 yards and a cloud of dust run game in the last game and a half or so, we've run some counters and mis-direction to keep em honest that way we can still run down hill.
i still don't know why we don't run reverse pass, end arounds, you know...trick plays. we always had one up our sleeves, just another thing for the defense to think about. we are almost too technical.

but i am the original dmack this other guy sounds like a clown.

[BoonesFarmSooner]

but i am the original dmack this other guy sounds like a clown.


Quote of the Century!!! But our clown does have a few redeeming qualities... He likes to "Roll His Own" with Mrs. Osteen from time to time!



Just watched the '86 OU-Nebraska game at lunch that I Tivo'd yesterday on Classic. Man, our defenses back in the day would just suffocate teams...

I know the offenses are different, but we just look completely flat most of the time. And I'm sick of hearing Venables say that someone is a freak athlete but doesn't know the defense.

If Torrence could play the Mike position at OU, we damn sure should be able to find someone else that is a freak of nature to line up in that spot. Although losing Lofton to the draft and missing on Mike Reed hurt.

[The Maestro]

but i am the original dmack this other guy sounds like a clown.

That's not nice to say....about clowns!! ;)

Get your boy Roy on here sometime as well!

[dmack13]

never happen...not his cup of tea.
while we played, i don't remember the site, but used to get on in study hall and i'd have like 400 to 500 fans in a furum and we'd just chat...
james hale even made mention of it because his readers were coming to chat with me.
Bob put an end to that tho...i didn't tell no secrets tho!

[Crimsontothecore]

So dmack, Now that you've diagnosed the problem, what's the fix? Should Bob make everybody on the roster hold hands and sing kum-ba-ya?
Should we stop recruiting the five star guys and concentrate on the 1-star local guys and hope they play above their heads?

Dang! Sooo many problems with a 7-1 team ranked 4th in the country.

[NormanPride]

Well, we'd be better off if Ryan was still playing. That took a lot of the confidence away.

[dmack13]

absolutely love the sarcasm...but i wouldn't wanna wait for the heart attack to occur to decide i need treatment. we are a great team and program, no doubt about it, but if you think you see the same football we brought back earlier this decade...then...i don't know what to tell you.

im not here to change peoples' minds but ima damn sure give my oppinion..and if you don't like it...then...i don't what to tell you.

sorry, but im a sore loser and when we get beat fair and square i can live with that, but when we loose because we are not playing to our capabilities then i have a problem...especially when it was something we helped bring back to our program and thats toughness AKA NUTS. ur probably going to be the same guy asking for bob's head if things ever go bad (i doubt they ever will). dude, im a die hard sooner but if you want me to ACT like what we are putting out now is good football...then ur the one who should be holding hands and singing with the others wearing blinders...

but as for me...i'll continue to speak my mind...
:D

[TheUnnamedSooner]

Thanks for posting Dmack. I hope you will become a regular.

[htownsooner7]

Dmack,

Great posts, ignore the haters. They read everyone's posts and hope to find some point to contradict. Makes them feel important. My concern with the toughness issue, especially the toughness on defense, is that offenses right now are at a clear advantage that they weren't before. Its hard to attack because these qbs sit back and see you coming. The offensive coordinators create space for the playmakers so you better be damn sure that your 'safety valve' on defense makes the play. Otherwise, you get a guy like Crabtree running a crossing route for 5 yards that ends up being a touchdown. How do we beat these schemes? It made me sick in Dallas to watch Colt scramble to his left for just an additional second so that Cosby and Shipley to get open. It was like we were damned if we blitzed and damned if we didn't.

[BoonesFarmSooner]

absolutely love the sarcasm...but i wouldn't wanna wait for the heart attack to occur to decide i need treatment. we are a great team and program, no doubt about it, but if you think you see the same football we brought back earlier this decade...then...i don't know what to tell you.




Maestro and I are right there with ya, Damian! It's frustrating watching our defense play like they have been, especially when the offense is dominating! And then to switch it over to ESPN and hearing them talk about how Florida should jump OU in the polls because our defense is so average...

Unfortunately, style points count in College Football and when you have several 1 loss teams jockying for a spot in the BCS.... It matters!


And I remember the days of you and Roy getting on the OU Chat that the wx dudes ran. Roy's Uncle and V would also join in from time to time... Good stuff!

[Crimsontothecore]

absolutely love the sarcasm...but i wouldn't wanna wait for the heart attack to occur to decide i need treatment. we are a great team and program, no doubt about it, but if you think you see the same football we brought back earlier this decade...then...i don't know what to tell you.

im not here to change peoples' minds but ima damn sure give my oppinion..and if you don't like it...then...i don't what to tell you.

sorry, but im a sore loser and when we get beat fair and square i can live with that, but when we loose because we are not playing to our capabilities then i have a problem...especially when it was something we helped bring back to our program and thats toughness AKA NUTS. ur probably going to be the same guy asking for bob's head if things ever go bad (i doubt they ever will). dude, im a die hard sooner but if you want me to ACT like what we are putting out now is good football...then ur the one who should be holding hands and singing with the others wearing blinders...

but as for me...i'll continue to speak my mind...
:D

It's not sarcasm. This team is 7-1 and ranked #4. Those are facts. YOU have listed countless problems you see with this and former teams under coach Stoops. The diagnosis is done, now what's the cure? That's all I asked. This board is full of people who are disgruntled and want coaches fired, schemes changed and so forth and so on. As a former player who surely has a better insight than those of us who sit in the stands I want to know what you think needs to be done. You cited the lack of comradery as one reason this team doesn't have good chemistry. How should Bob fix this problem? That's what I was asking. Did he coach differently then than he does now?

Because you are who you say you are, people here will value your opinion.
Remember, if you're having a heart attack you want treatment, not just a bunch of doctors telling you what's wrong.

[CobraKai]

It's not sarcasm. This team is 7-1 and ranked #4. Those are facts. YOU have listed countless problems you see with this and former teams under coach Stoops. The diagnosis is done, now what's the cure? That's all I asked. This board is full of people who are disgruntled and want coaches fired, schemes changed and so forth and so on. As a former player who surely has a better insight than those of us who sit in the stands I want to know what you think needs to be done. You cited the lack of comradery as one reason this team doesn't have good chemistry. How should Bob fix this problem? That's what I was asking. Did he coach differently then than he does now?

Because you are who you say you are, people here will value your opinion.
Remember, if you're having a heart attack you want treatment, not just a bunch of doctors telling you what's wrong.

You don't think your post came off as sarcastic in any way? Not even that part about no longer recruiting 5 stars and only getting 1 star local guys?

7-1 and ranked #4. Those are indeed facts. It was also a fact that we were 14+ point favorites in the Fiesta Bowl last year. That does not mean that we did not have glaring weaknesses that needed to be addressed. Another fact is that our defense is giving up a tremendous amount of points.

[bosworthsteroidmafia]

and an o-line that hasn't had to run block all game will have a tough time run blocking when you need that 7minute drive in the fourth quarter.

Some people have commented that this O-line's strength is pass blocking - as talented and all-worldly as this line has been billed (which is probably a large part of the problem), should they be able to run or pass block with the same intensity at will?

What did you think about Duke's comments about needing to run the ball more to establish the run? How do you do that when the passing game is your bread and butter? Sack up?

DeMarco Murray seems to have turned a small corner over the last 2 games, hopefully it has more to do with confidence than physical limitation... do you think he will ever be the same electric player he was last year?

[Boomer.....]

You don't think your post came off as sarcastic in any way? Not even that part about no longer recruiting 5 stars and only getting 1 star local guys?

7-1 and ranked #4. Those are indeed facts. It was also a fact that we were 14+ point favorites in the Fiesta Bowl last year. That does not mean that we did not have glaring weaknesses that needed to be addressed. Another fact is that our defense is giving up a tremendous amount of points.

You could obviously tell the players were not a "family" at the end of last season. MK could have cared less about the bowl game. He and others are just look ahead to the big picture, the NFL. We played very lackadaisical and thought we could just step on the field and beat BSU or WVU. On the other hand, I'm sure it is hard to get the players fired up for a game against a mid-major school. It is a lose-lose situation.

[dmack13]

im not going to get really personal on this thing and i promise not to get rude again, but the problem is essentially what i've stated and the solution is up to the current sooners, we tried to talk some sense into them, we've reached out on many occasions to the leaders to offer advise, hell Josh is coaching there. it's the whole culture or a missing ingredient..something. but the fact is TOUGHNESS is gone.

the players are here, and i think the coaches are here...the ATTITUDE isn't and if they need to bring in a hard *** to get that outta the guys, or a therapist to get the deer in the headlights look out of their eyes, I DON'T KNOW...my point is, there is an issue, its starting to have a track record, and like any other thing in life or business, it needs to be addressed.

to resolve this issue somebody (a coach 1st...then trickle down to the players) needs to dramatically change what they are doing, the players need to meet and set standards for practice and game day, the accountability needs to be tangable and translate to the field...guys can't be too scared or too cool to get in another guys face (when appropriate) and they all need to do something to bring unity to the team, or offense and defense...again we had in game competitions and even in a game like baylor or a nail biter like A&M you could walk up to another guy and say "T-Marshall you said the D would get 3 TO's and yall only have 1...wassup with that...you ain't making NO PLAYS today"

something...its lilke they are gifted lil robots doing exactly whats being told to them and unless they have the momentum they play a lil gun shy.

or you could tell them to rent remember the titans and rudy and watch both over and over and over again...lol

the other question...

yep thats right...

back to defense, i know your concern and the shot gun gives the qb more time to recognize blitzes (and by no means do i think we should blitz every snap, but you have to HAVE TO hit the qb in the mouth, just like a guy said earlier...colt mccoy isn't all world when you hit him a couple of times, and neither is sam and neither was josh...josh was ready to puke his brains out against KSU and it was only the second quarter.

the other thing is bumping the receiver, and although crabtree is special, taking away the crosses and quick screens and in cuts dramatically helps us, and how good is ANY receiver if his qb is scared.

there's a safety over the top, and i'd be willing to bet that our players are better than theirs overall and over the course of a full game, we'd out play them.

and again, more than anything the offense is confused and makes un-necessary checks when we show blitz but really back off, or allign in blitz but play zone responsibilities after the snap of the ball...then once they forget how much we like to blitz...BLITZ EM AGAIN...
i'd say 30% pure blitz (not naked, without safety help)
10% zone blitz to mix it up
60% coverage...but show bump over 50% of the time to make the qb and receivers think

[dmack13]

Some people have commented that this O-line's strength is pass blocking - as talented and all-worldly as this line has been billed (which is probably a large part of the problem), should they be able to run or pass block with the same intensity at will?

What did you think about Duke's comments about needing to run the ball more to establish the run? How do you do that when the passing game is your bread and butter? Sack up?

DeMarco Murray seems to have turned a small corner over the last 2 games, hopefully it has more to do with confidence than physical limitation... do you think he will ever be the same electric player he was last year?

our o-line is gifted and i blame our running game woes earlier in the year to uncreative play calling and DM being in a huge funk, he was looking for people to tackle him...CB is never going to be a game breaker (glue guy) and MM is still a pup. but we literally just ran zone and power over and over again no matte how the defense lined up.

i still think we need the ole mangino "josh to Q" shoovle pass back...great neutrilizer

[The Maestro]

our o-line is gifted and i blame our running game woes earlier in the year to uncreative play calling and DM being in a huge funk, he was looking for people to tackle him...CB is never going to be a game breaker (glue guy) and MM is still a pup. but we literally just ran zone and power over and over again no matte how the defense lined up.

i still think we need the ole mangino "josh to Q" shoovle pass back...great neutrilizer

This all feels like therapy to hear you say it, too. Thanks!

[NormanPride]

You think we've got the players to pull the shovel off? Who's our jitterbug?

[dmack13]

You think we've got the players to pull the shovel off? Who's our jitterbug?

put DM or MM in space and either would be dangerous...
that play works even with a fullback...use an defense's aggressiveness against it

[Collier11]

Here is my deal DM13, I agree with nearly all that you say so this isnt in anyway myself being condescending but if you truly believe this and feel so strongly about OU as you say you do and I believe you do then why dont you get some of the old players including Josh, go to Coach Stoops and say to him what needs to be said to the players and ask him if you and the other guys can confront the team about it and have Stoops backing.

I know you said a players only meeting but you also talked about when you and Roy and the boys came in and some players were being b*tches about it(I even heard so much that someone got in Roys face although im not sure if that is true or not?) but with Stoops there and with him standing beside you while this is being said, the players would take it alot more serious In my opinion

[NormanPride]

Hmm... Our big uglies gotta get outta the way, too. :D

I know man coverage is what killed us in '99, and Stoops went to the zone blitz after that. Do you think we should be moving back to the '99 defense since we have the horses to run it now?

[Fraggle145]

i still think we need the ole mangino "josh to Q" shoovle pass back...great neutrilizer

You and me both... That was a great play and it nearly always worked for us. Hell it worked against us when Kansas ran it.

[BoulderSooner79]

our o-line is gifted and i blame our running game woes earlier in the year to uncreative play calling and DM being in a huge funk, he was looking for people to tackle him...CB is never going to be a game breaker (glue guy) and MM is still a pup. but we literally just ran zone and power over and over again no matte how the defense lined up.

i still think we need the ole mangino "josh to Q" shoovle pass back...great neutrilizer

You can't believe what beautiful music that is to our ears. Against KU, I saw a trap play and I was more excited about that than our 30yd pass plays! Finally, something different.

Xs and Os question: Why do we not have any successful finesse running plays ? I just don't understand with the passing success we have why we don't break a few delay runs for big yardage. I'm guessing it is for the reason you give above - we always zone block and give telegraph the run right from the snap. I see other good passing teams do this all the time and break a run into the seconday untouched. Our backs are always having to juke a lineman or break an arm tackle behind the line of scrimmage.

[dmack13]

Collier...im with you,

i'd love to do it, and i think this team might respond a little different then the 06 team did. and trust me, i wouldn't be talking about it if i wasn't planning on doing it...two steps ahead of ya...
=)
i wanna be proactive too and not just whine...if i see a problem, i wanna fix it.
i just think its funny when people wanna come on here and sound cool and have debate...not me, i wanna cheer for my team and voice my oppinion on our team...

come Bedlem...i'll be in norman and then in stillwater and ima have a pow wow with the boys before they play..

ohh and NOBODY had anything to say when we left the red room...not even bob or smitty...roy almost ran outta there he was so mad, but i heard plenty of complaints via phone...lol

[bosworthsteroidmafia]

You are making so many great points... it's like every frustration I've had over the last 5 years put into words.

Couldn't agree more about the overall lack of hunger.



That said, I think this team still has a chance for big success based on talent alone. If they can find a 2nd wind of motivation I don't see why they can't win out and beat somebody's *** in a BCS Bowl. Even if they get shut out of the NC, they could land a big time redemption game like SUC.
If Tech beats the whorns this weekend, anything can happen.

I'm really hoping the D can come together. As you said, DMack, the line and corners are solid, the safeties serviceable. Despite inexperience, I like Box's speed in the middle and Clayton is having a pretty solid year. At times this year they looked suffocating with Reynolds in there (granted, it was against lesser offenses)... they need to have that same attitude with him gone.

I'm tired of seeing the words "tentative" and "gunshy" and agreeing. HIT SOMEBODY IN THE FOCKING MOUTH!

[BoulderSooner79]

Thanks, dmack and I hope you get to talk to the team.

I've harped about there still being things to play for this season and not to give up. Well, specifically those this are 1) Beat the pokes and 2) Win the friggin' bowl game!!! I don't care if we end up in the Massengale's Doosh Bowl, I want to see a win !!

[dmack13]

Hmm... Our big uglies gotta get outta the way, too. :D

I know man coverage is what killed us in '99, and Stoops went to the zone blitz after that. Do you think we should be moving back to the '99 defense since we have the horses to run it now?

we ran it wrong in 99
we played head up to outside and it was naked (no safety help)
you run it with your db's head up to inside and force the fade. see how that kills all the shipley's and welkers...now crabtree and maclin might still be trouble but you 've got to take the confidence from the qb and the receiver is irrelevent. ask antwaun, curtis, josh norman and mark clayton from 02

you need smart safeties and an enforcer but it's the spread killer, watch what SEC teams do to the spread...the KILL it

[htownsooner7]

Not sure if you have touched on this yet, but what the hell is going on with our kick coverage??

[dmack13]

Not sure if you have touched on this yet, but what the hell is going on with our kick coverage??

punt team and kick off are tell tale signs of NUTs of a team
so i think they speak for themselves...

[Collier11]

In otherwords our KO coverage guys are afraid to get in there and throw their bodies around

[Scott D]

pretty much, they seem content to try and dance around the blockers hoping that someone else might make the play instead of trying to run through the blockers to lay out the return guy.

[NormanPride]

I still say we need to hire Fletcher as a full time motivator. One of the best speeches I've ever heard was his speech after the team returned with the crystal football. :D

[achiro]

It starts in the weight room. ;)

[wishbonesooner]

OK dmack, thank you for the straight talk. I guess I'll ask the question that will either get me banned or forever negspekked. Is it time for Bob Stoops to move on? If he's comfy with things as they are, and he can't find a way to light a fire under HIS players, should it be time to end the Bob Stoops era?

[Collier11]

See Osborne, Bowden, etc...all the great coaches go through tough times and then they figure out whatever it is they need to figure out again. Stoops is fine and I dont want anyone else

[Crimsontothecore]

OK dmack, thank you for the straight talk. I guess I'll ask the question that will either get me banned or forever negspekked. Is it time for Bob Stoops to move on? If he's comfy with things as they are, and he can't find a way to light a fire under HIS players, should it be time to end the Bob Stoops era?
I often wonder if coach Stoops reads this message board and what he must be thinking if he does. His team is ranked 4th in the nation and only lost a close game to the #1 team. He's coming off back-to-back conference titles and back-to-back BCS bowls and he sees a question like this.

It must be clear to him now that some irrational fans will never be happy no matter what.

[aurorasooner]

I often wonder if coach Stoops reads this message board and what he must be thinking if he does. His team is ranked 4th in the nation and only lost a close game to the #1 team. He's coming off back-to-back conference titles and back-to-back BCS bowls and he sees a question like this.

It must be clear to him now that some irrational fans will never be happy no matter what.
Too many Chicken-Little postings. Makes me think we've got a bunch of chameleon-aggies posting under Sooner board names just to stir the pot.
I just heard on the USF/Cincy game that one of the announcers talked to Stoops and asked him what was wrong with the D, and Bob said "nothing" that our O was just scoring too fast. I don't think that's the only issue though and most of them have been covered, but mainly I think we've become a finesse D which is much more dependent on alignment/assignments instead of players just making plays while knocking the livin' cheet of the the opposing offense. Come Saturday early in the game if 1) one of our DBs or LBs steps up and takes a corn receiver's head-off or can execute a quality blitz and not just pull Ganz down but actually hammer him hard to the ground, and 2) if our offense breaks a 60, or so, yard run where our RB has a hole big enough to drive a truck thru by design and takes it completely to the house, then our actual fans well get excited again.

[rainiersooner]

Just for a nice trip down memory lane...and as a salute to D-Mack, enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V55DtWevqHc

[wishbonesooner]

I often wonder if coach Stoops reads this message board and what he must be thinking if he does. His team is ranked 4th in the nation and only lost a close game to the #1 team. He's coming off back-to-back conference titles and back-to-back BCS bowls and he sees a question like this.

It must be clear to him now that some irrational fans will never be happy no matter what.
I don't think I'm irrational, and I have the utmost admiration for Bob Stoops. But losing to the #1 team in a close game would be tolerable if we hadn't been lit up by West Virginia, beaten by a long drive by a Boise State team we should have blown away, gotten hammered by USC and K-State. There's a pattern to our last 5 seasons, and if you don't want to see it, fine.
We have all the signs of a company that has gotten complacent and lazy. And BTW, those back to back BCS bowls were both embarrassing losses. That does matter to fans, both the rational and irrational ones.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

punt team and kick off are tell tale signs of NUTs of a team
so i think they speak for themselves...

i think i need a terminology upgrade, this sounds so much better than "we don't have an ontei or a brandon shelby out there".

[BigDeezy]

"Just for a nice trip down memory lane...and as a salute to D-Mack, enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V55DtWevqHc"


Man, our defense really made some hits on people during that year!!

I'd love to see hits like that each and every game now.

[Crimsontothecore]

I don't think I'm irrational, and I have the utmost admiration for Bob Stoops. But losing to the #1 team in a close game would be tolerable if we hadn't been lit up by West Virginia, beaten by a long drive by a Boise State team we should have blown away, gotten hammered by USC and K-State. There's a pattern to our last 5 seasons, and if you don't want to see it, fine.
We have all the signs of a company that has gotten complacent and lazy. And BTW, those back to back BCS bowls were both embarrassing losses. That does matter to fans, both the rational and irrational ones.
Asking if a coach like Stoops needs to move on considering all he's accomplished is not only irrational thinking, it's just downright STUPID!
And you claim to have the "utmost" admiration for him? uh, ok.

So tell me, just who are the coaches you would like to see replace Bob Stoops? I guess you could name about 115 coaches who didn't lose BCS bowls over the last few years because they didn't even get their teams to a BCS bowl. I guess their better coaches by default by your reasoning, huh?

[tulsaoilerfan]

I long for the good ole days of going into a game almost knowing that the Defense would either score a TD or set us up for one or more gimmes; i haven't had that feeling since the 02 season; hopefully last week was a step back towards that feeling

[wishbonesooner]

Asking if a coach like Stoops needs to move on considering all he's accomplished is not only irrational thinking, it's just downright STUPID!
And you claim to have the "utmost" admiration for him? uh, ok.

So tell me, just who are the coaches you would like to see replace Bob Stoops? I guess you could name about 115 coaches who didn't lose BCS bowls over the last few years because they didn't even get their teams to a BCS bowl. I guess their better coaches by default by your reasoning, huh?

I dont want Bob Stoops to go anywhere. I want him to find a way to motivate kids like Bob Stoops used to do. And if that's "Stupid", I guess you should take it up with Bob. He was the one that told us we shouldn't thank him for winning national championships, we should EXPECT it from him. Did you even read the posts from dmack?

[Curly Bill]

Right now, i think the DB's have their hands tied behind their backs, too much zone means you only hear a safety's name when he's gotten beaten because he's never robbing anything. we have damn good corners (in my humble opinion) but they NEVER get to get physical.

Boys, some of us on here have been preaching this message for a good while now huh? ;)

[Collier11]

Too many Chicken-Little postings. Makes me think we've got a bunch of chameleon-aggies posting under Sooner board names just to stir the pot.
I just heard on the USF/Cincy game that one of the announcers talked to Stoops and asked him what was wrong with the D, and Bob said "nothing" that our O was just scoring too fast. I don't think that's the only issue though and most of them have been covered, but mainly I think we've become a finesse D which is much more dependent on alignment/assignments instead of players just making plays while knocking the livin' cheet of the the opposing offense. Come Saturday early in the game if 1) one of our DBs or LBs steps up and takes a corn receiver's head-off or can execute a quality blitz and not just pull Ganz down but actually hammer him hard to the ground, and 2) if our offense breaks a 60, or so, yard run where our RB has a hole big enough to drive a truck thru by design and takes it completely to the house, then our actual fans well get excited again.



I dont believe Stoops would say this unless it was tongue in cheek, you dont put in a no-huddle offense and not want it to score fast

[Curly Bill]

I often wonder if coach Stoops reads this message board and what he must be thinking if he does. His team is ranked 4th in the nation and only lost a close game to the #1 team. He's coming off back-to-back conference titles and back-to-back BCS bowls and he sees a question like this.

It must be clear to him now that some irrational fans will never be happy no matter what.

Maybe about as clear as some posters needing to take off the crimson shades so they can see the clues scattered all around them.

[Collier11]

Curly for once I really dont agree with you, I can see where some fans think our D is horrible and I can also see the side of the aisle I sit on that it isnt as bad as some think. Thats not to say we dont have issues but every team does, offenses are really good these days. I would point more towards the attitude than being a bad D or a bad team. This team can still win the natl title, LSU cant and neither can Ohio St...does that make them so horrible?

[Curly Bill]

I said they were horrible?

[Curly Bill]

I actually think our defensive players are pretty dang good -- more often then not they are able to overcome what I consider a lame *** defensive scheme.

[Collier11]

No, but some of you are acting like our football team is in ruins because we had a cpl bad games on the defensive side. Lets see if we go out and beat TT, hold them to under 35, hold Nebraska to 21 or less, etc...lets see if we are making adjustments or just getting worse

[Curly Bill]

No, but some of you are acting like our football team is in ruins because we had a cpl bad games on the defensive side. Lets see if we go out and beat TT, hold them to under 35, hold Nebraska to 21 or less, etc...lets see if we are making adjustments or just getting worse

I'm not disturbed by a couple of bad games, I'm disturbed by the trend dating back to when BV took over where our defense has IMO underperformed on too many occasions, often in big games.

[Harry Beanbag]

I'm not disturbed by a couple of bad games, I'm disturbed by the trend dating back to when BV took over where our defense has IMO underperformed on too many occasions, often in big games.

Come on Bill, Venables' defenses only give up 30+ points 25% of the time. :)

[Crimsontothecore]

I don't think I'm irrational, and I have the utmost admiration for Bob Stoops. But losing to the #1 team in a close game would be tolerable if we hadn't been lit up by West Virginia, beaten by a long drive by a Boise State team we should have blown away, gotten hammered by USC and K-State. There's a pattern to our last 5 seasons, and if you don't want to see it, fine.
We have all the signs of a company that has gotten complacent and lazy. And BTW, those back to back BCS bowls were both embarrassing losses. That does matter to fans, both the rational and irrational ones.

You're right. A good coach never ever loses or gets upset by a lesser team. By that standard Stoops, Carroll, Brown, Paterno, Bowden, Tressel, Meyer, ect. should all be replaced. Do you seriously not see how unrealistic you are?

[Crimsontothecore]

For those of you with short memories who are so unhappy with Bob.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/boomersooner123/47897985.jpg

Enough said.

[Curly Bill]

Come on Bill, Venables' defenses only give up 30+ points 25% of the time. :)

...but what's his percentage in bowl games? :D

[Harry Beanbag]

...but what's his percentage in bowl games? :D


75% :(

I just did a quick check over at Soonerstats. In the five years with Mike and Brent, the defense gave up 30 or more points a total of 9 times, four of which were in the first season. In the 4+ years since Mike left, the 30 or more allowed games are currently at 15. I'm betting on at least two more of them this season.

[Curly Bill]

75% :(

I just did a quick check over at Soonerstats. In the five years with Mike and Brent, the defense gave up 30 or more points a total of 9 times, four of which were in the first season. In the 4+ years since Mike left, the 30 or more allowed games are currently at 15. I'm betting on at least two more of them this season.

Very likely.

[rainiersooner]

For those of you with short memories who are so unhappy with Bob.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/boomersooner123/47897985.jpg

Enough said.

I forgot about the pocket square on smells-of-bourbon. Good lord that man was horrific.

[KingBarry]

DMack,

Thanks so much. I can't tell you how informative and thought provoking, as well as just enjoyable, it has been to have you here with us.

I also can't tell you how gratifying it is to have a real football expert enlighten all of us fans.

On the "hunger" of 2000 v. today, I have one thought. That 2000 wasn't just hungry for success, it was starving. The upper-classmen had experienced nothing but failure and frustration, at the team level, since they got on campus.
And the lower classmen had chosen to come to an OU that hadn't been a factor on the national stage in years. They came with the desire to return a sleeping giant to the pinnacle, and just refused to bear the thought that they would fail.

1999 was a pretty good year, but all it did was whet the appetite of an already starving team.

Then 2000 rolled around. You had upper classmen desparate to accomplish something before their careers ended, and the newer guys following their lead.

What i am trying to say is that no team that has been at or near the top for as long as OU can duplicate that intense team-centered desire to win like we had in 00.

Coach Wilkinson tried to keep the level of dedication up by recruiting Oklahoma farm boys who had done nothing but work sun up to sun down in 100 degree heat their whole lives. they liked to suffer, and they wanted to win.

How do you get that at today's OU? Our players are middle class kids who grew up playing Xbox, and listening to i-pods in their air conditioned homes. They are all blue chippers who stepped onto an elite campus expecting to collect rings.

It's just not the same and i don't know how to get it back.

I hope this rambling post isn't completely useless.

[OU_Sooners75]

but as for me...i'll continue to speak my mind...
:D


As you should.


I still think you should head to Norman and start talking to the team!

just imagine what this team would be like if they played as a family, or had NUTS, as you call it!


:eek:

[Desert Sapper]

dmack,

Thanks for coming on and bringing some light to what many of us have been concerned about for a while.

How much truth is there to our coaches refusing to make adjustments during the game? What is the fix if it is true?

[boomermagic]

For those of you with short memories who are so unhappy with Bob.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/boomersooner123/47897985.jpg

Enough said.


NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BoonesFarmSooner]

For those of you with short memories who are so unhappy with Bob.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/boomersooner123/47897985.jpg

Enough said.


For those of you with even shorter memories, here's what happens when you have dominating defenses...

http://www.k955.com/sports/ouchamps/cnn.jpg


Yes, we had some dark days in the 1990's. Every football dynasty has gone through that. It doesn't mean that we should be thankful with 10-3 seasons. Especially in years where we have the schedule and talent to compete for the National Championship.

As an OU fan, I expect more. With Bob Stoops being one of the highest paid college coaches, we should all have them. He said so the first day at OU that he would not shy away from those expectations.

[8timechamps]

At this point, I'd give anything to have dmac on the coaching staff. Hell he doesn't even need to "coach", just be there to chew ***!

Great stuff.

[The Maestro]

I still don't get the relationship between "serious concern for our defense" and "DO YOU WANT SCHNELLY AND BLAKE BACK?!?!?". God forbid companies, people, relationships or football teams try to improve constantly.

It's Vanilla Ice vs. U2. One is big for a week...the other is huge for decades.

[OUmillenium]

At this point, I'd give anything to have dmac on the coaching staff. Hell he doesn't even need to "coach", just be there to chew ***!

Great stuff.

Maybe this was a big part of what Mike Stoops did when he was here?

[Boomer.....]

Maybe this was a big part of what Mike Stoops did when he was here?

If you guys notice, BV rips into the players. It looks like he is about to blow a lid at times. I don't think the fix is yelling at the players. They have to play with more heart and like a team or family instead of individuals.

[Crimsontothecore]

For those of you with even shorter memories, here's what happens when you have dominating defenses...

http://www.k955.com/sports/ouchamps/cnn.jpg


Yes, we had some dark days in the 1990's. Every football dynasty has gone through that. It doesn't mean that we should be thankful with 10-3 seasons. Especially in years where we have the schedule and talent to compete for the National Championship.

As an OU fan, I expect more. With Bob Stoops being one of the highest paid college coaches, we should all have them. He said so the first day at OU that he would not shy away from those expectations.

Are you serious? 10-3 is disappointing to you? you must be joking. Again, you have expectations that no coach, staff, or team could ever fulfill. Completely unrealistic. Yes, I think we should be thankful for 10-3 seasons. Do you know how many schools would die to have 10-3 seasons?

It's fine to desire a NC every year but to be so critical of a team who is 7-1 and top 5 is ridiculous.

And speaking of even shorter memories; who won the Big12 championship last year? Year before?

[Crimsontothecore]

As you should.


I still think you should head to Norman and start talking to the team!

just imagine what this team would be like if they played as a family, or had NUTS, as you call it!


:eek:

There's an idea I bet Bob never had. "Talk" to the team...BRILLIANT!

I like hearing dmacks take on things (assuming it's really Mackey) but to assume he holds the secret to all the perceived problems on this team is..well...ignorant. Then again, I've never seen so many people more qualified than the OU coaching staff on one message board.

[boomermagic]

Maybe this was a big part of what Mike Stoops did when he was here?

YES !

[BoonesFarmSooner]

Are you serious? 10-3 is disappointing to you? you must be joking. Again, you have expectations that no coach, staff, or team could ever fulfill. Completely unrealistic. Yes, I think we should be thankful for 10-3 seasons. Do you know how many schools would die to have 10-3 seasons?

It's fine to desire a NC every year but to be so critical of a team who is 7-1 and top 5 is ridiculous.

And speaking of even shorter memories; who won the Big12 championship last year? Year before?


You were happy with the way things turned out last year? Are you freaking serious?

We had the schedule set up perfectly with Mizzou, aTm, Okie State and Miami in Norman. Losing to a very average Colorado team cost us a shot at the title. Then looking like complete buffoons against West Va in the Fiesta Bowl.... Yes, I do expect more when we have the talent and schedule set up the way it was.

Our defense looked like a high school out there against the Mountaineers. And they get a free pass on the Lubbock meltdown because of Bradford going down on the first offensive possession.

I don't expect a National Championship every year, but last season and this were our years to win it if we were going to do it anytime soon.

[The Maestro]

You were happy with the way things turned out last year? Are you freaking serious?

We had the schedule set up perfectly with Mizzou, aTm, Okie State and Miami in Norman. Losing to a very average Colorado team cost us a shot at the title. Then looking like complete buffoons against West Va in the Fiesta Bowl.... Yes, I do expect more when we have the talent and schedule set up the way it was.

Our defense looked like a high school out there against the Mountaineers. And they get a free pass on the Lubbock meltdown because of Bradford going down on the first offensive possession.

I don't expect a National Championship every year, but last season and this were our years to win it if we were going to do it anytime soon.

Amen and amen. The national championship game was played by two teams that lost their last regular season home games, including the champion who lost twice last year. All we had to do was not melt down in Boulder and we were in the title game.

Yes, we appreciate Stoops, but I saw a lot of people leaving the Fiesta Bowl absolutely disgusted and having spent thousands of dollars to travel with the team and support them. When Stoops is cashing those big checks, big expectations are allowed to follow.

[Crimsontothecore]

Ok, I wasn't any happier about those losses than anyone else but I still judge Bob and his staff on their whole body of work. You say the team underperformed against WV but what about Mizzou? Did you expect OU to beat them a second time in Kansas City? I remember everyone sweating that game given the fact we had beat them in Norman earlier. My point is that there are more solid performances than bad and everyone is over-reacting without standing back and looking at the entire body of work. Bob's teams have won big games since that 2000 NC.

To be honest, maybe (just maybe) WV was the better team last year. Boise State was undefeated and only won on a trick play in OT. USC was just damn good..period. LSU won by 7 (In NO) and the outcome would have been different had Kejuan pulled in a high pass. Except for USC, those "BCS losses" everyone is obsessed with probably weren't as bad as they are portrayed. I still think there is credit to be given for getting there when over a hundred teams didn't.

I'm still waiting for someone to name any coach, past or present, who didn't lose to lesser teams occasionally. Show me a defense right now that's shutting everybody down.

A little grumbling after a loss is normal regardless but when I read thread after thread questioning the very competency of coach Stoops, it is simply unjustified.

[BoulderSooner79]

Amen and amen. The national championship game was played by two teams that lost their last regular season home games, including the champion who lost twice last year. All we had to do was not melt down in Boulder and we were in the title game.

Yes, we appreciate Stoops, but I saw a lot of people leaving the Fiesta Bowl absolutely disgusted and having spent thousands of dollars to travel with the team and support them. When Stoops is cashing those big checks, big expectations are allowed to follow.

The CU game was particularly painful for me, given my location. That game was on the coaching staff from the get go; might as well left the players in the locker room and had an arm wrestling match between the coaching staffs at mid-field and we get smoked.

I could take losing to WVU because they were an excellent team and we had serious injuries to deal with. But it was the manner of the loss that hurt; many players just didn't seem to show any fire. Again, why couldn't the coaches inspire the team to play better and at least put up a fight ?

I don't expect MNC every year - no team has gone back-to-back in the BCS yet. I expect the team to be well coached and show real desire to win.

[OUmillenium]

Freedom of speech is not always a good thing. Lucky for many on this board that there is no prerequisite level of football knowledge. Many of BVs defenders would fall agonizingly short in this category.

[Collier11]

Freedom of speech is not always a good thing. Lucky for many on this board that there is no prerequisite level of football knowledge. Many of BVs defenders would fall agonizingly short in this category.

OK, ill bite...how many conf titles has Muschamp won in his career as a D coordinator? How many Natl titles has he coached for as a D coordinator? The reason I bring him up is cus he is the new hot D coordinator and everyone is slobbing on his knob

[dmack13]

wow,

i see a lot of rebuttal on here and i agree with a lot of points on both sides of the arguments. the thing is that, we have problems that i think the average fan can notice. i keep seeing people talk about expertise or a lack there of in oppinions, but the fact is that we all have access to HDTV's and watch our sooners, and my mother can see a difference in attitude and passion on the field.

To answer some questions...
No, Bob shouldn't leave, nor should we start calling for his head. he may need to change some things in-house, but i agree 10-3 ain't bad. plus i know he know's his x's and o's and you'd be surprised how many coaches really don't.

However, we as fans, have the right to voice our concerns about a trend that has surfaced over the last 5 years and the fact is that we've underachieved FOR OUR STANDARDS...i don't care if USC has or tOSU has or any other team...my concerns are with MY team (and ur team). in big games.....we stink....naw, we suck! and people want to bring up mizzu and conference championships and other games, but it is a FACT that the only team we have consistently beat with the same caliber of talent we have is UT. guys mizzu does NOT have our talent, they have a "gimmick" offense and a few great skill guys. they are undersized and slow (meaning OL, DL, LB) compared to us and that is more responsible for victories than people think. when we play a solid team with solid players we usually hit them in the mouth, they obsorb it...hit us back...and we quit. Who can really argue with that? SERIOUSLY...i ask one person to tell me otherwise...

we don't need new coaches, we don't need "nicer/humbler guys", we need to inspire the ones we have and that starts with the coaches, then the players and then alumni like myself and others...its a problem the whole SOONER family has to fix.

one thing that can change right away is increasing our physical nature. that includes in scheme, in hitting and in hustling. we have some great players on defense who aren't shining like they should. i saw a highlight video from one of you guys on here, and i truly think there were more WOW hits on that reel then we've had all season...and did you notice that on all of Q's runs you saw starting receivers blocking 20 30 yards down field...look again. our defense HIT the opponent backwards, not grappling like wrestling, or waiting for the ball carrier to pass him by the grad his waist/ankles...but meeting the opponent in the hole and laying some WOOD on them...guys that is a HUGE factor in football because hit hurts...it hurts bad and nobody wants to get injured...

if we HIT people, we cure a lot of our problems
that energizes the crowd,and our players and demorilizes the opponent. that is the BIGGEST thing we need to focus on, next is family but that's more for the off-season...

just my thoughts...

[The Maestro]

Ok, I wasn't any happier about those losses than anyone else but I still judge Bob and his staff on their whole body of work. You say the team underperformed against WV but what about Mizzou? Did you expect OU to beat them a second time in Kansas City? I remember everyone sweating that game given the fact we had beat them in Norman earlier. My point is that there are more solid performances than bad and everyone is over-reacting without standing back and looking at the entire body of work. Bob's teams have won big games since that 2000 NC.

To be honest, maybe (just maybe) WV was the better team last year. Boise State was undefeated and only won on a trick play in OT. USC was just damn good..period. LSU won by 7 (In NO) and the outcome would have been different had Kejuan pulled in a high pass. Except for USC, those "BCS losses" everyone is obsessed with probably weren't as bad as they are portrayed. I still think there is credit to be given for getting there when over a hundred teams didn't.

I'm still waiting for someone to name any coach, past or present, who didn't lose to lesser teams occasionally. Show me a defense right now that's shutting everybody down.

A little grumbling after a loss is normal regardless but when I read thread after thread questioning the very competency of coach Stoops, it is simply unjustified.

A few things. Missouri rematch was in San Antonio...and yes, based on the fact Missouri had never beaten OU under this regime I fully expected to win a rematch. As far as WVU, good Lord...they scored like 28 points in a 8 minute span and all on big plays. It was nuts how poorly we played. Not that we lost, but HOW we lost.

And I haven't seen ANYONE questioning the very competency of Coach Stoops so I think you took that one a bit too far as far as what we are saying. Coach Stoops is beyond competent...that is why we want to see our defense not having three straight games like we have...not just some one time fluke. One time is one thing. This problem is officially a trend.

[boomermagic]

If I were Bob Stoops I would talk to Barry Switzer about how to motivate my football team.. I wouldn't just talk to him I would follow him around If I had to.. I would eat lunch, Dinner even breakfast with The King for a while until I learned what motivation is.. Just my opinion.. Oh and, I would ask Barry to come talk to the team as well..

[birddog]

I could take losing to WVU because they were an excellent team and we had serious injuries to deal with. But it was the manner of the loss that hurt; many players just didn't seem to show any fire. Again, why couldn't the coaches inspire the team to play better and at least put up a fight ?

I don't expect MNC every year - no team has gone back-to-back in the BCS yet. I expect the team to be well coached and show real desire to win.

why is it players need to be inspired by coaches to play hard? these players get to play on a huge national stage, and they are bored? inspiring players, to me, means they are bored or don't really care to be there. if that's true, i'm very disappointed. they get to play a game they love, a game that defines them as people. they should walk off that field so exhausted that they are damn near needing a trip to the hospital. either that, or what we are asking of them (to play inspired, with desire) is unreasonable.

when i played in college, in front of a few hundred fans and no media etc., we played because we loved to play and the idea of letting down your teammates was not an option.

i hope these players understand that their careers are over before they know it, and the regrets they have will be there forever (for the ones that care).

[The Maestro]

I'm with DMack on this one. There isn't a magic speech or formula that is going to work. The players have to decide themselves that every play they want to be the best. And when that play is over, decide it again...and make it happen.

[dmack13]

i just watched that video again...and its amazing! i still get chill bumps watching what we were able to do, i really thank you guys for supporting us man...its humbling to go out there and have so many people behind you. remember beating KSU in the lil apple and seeing oranges all over THEIR field...then beating UN and getting hit by one...then in A&M we had about 20,000 of you guys there...or how about flying back from KC after a freezing cold game and seeing hundreds if not thousands of fans AT THE AIRPORT...then another 5,000 at the school....AMAZING!!!! we did it...and you guys played a MAJOR part of that accomplishment...its as much yours as it is ours...and if no one else has said it before...we appreciate you!

BOOMER SOONER
dmack13

[Crimsontothecore]

And I haven't seen ANYONE questioning the very competency of Coach Stoops so I think you took that one a bit too far as far as what we are saying. Coach Stoops is beyond competent...that is why we want to see our defense not having three straight games like we have...not just some one time fluke. One time is one thing. This problem is officially a trend.

Really? You're right, nobody used the word incompetent. It's insinuated with words like "arrogant" and "stubborn" and finally with questions like "Is it time to end the Bob Stoops era?"
If those are terms of endearment then I would hate to see threads if you and others didn't love him so much.

[Crimsontothecore]

OK, ill bite...how many conf titles has Muschamp won in his career as a D coordinator? How many Natl titles has he coached for as a D coordinator? The reason I bring him up is cus he is the new hot D coordinator and everyone is slobbing on his knob

Good luck at getting a response. I've asked twice and still nobody can name those coaches who are so superior to Bob.

[dmack13]

actually i tend to disagree that the players need to inspire themselves...i only say that because bob had to stay on top of us and create a culture of change in order for us to comply. i will say that in 4 yrs (really 3yrs and 4 games cuz i got hurt) of playing with, living with and chillin with roy, i don't have one picture of us in pads together and that's weird. but you are young and don't realize what's truly happening at that time. and i think i speak for the players when i say they need a coach to continuously provide perspective. but...i was exhuasted many a game because we took as much pride in blocking and spec teams as we did playing receiver

[dmack13]

no coach is better than BOB...he stays!!!
so does BV...just adjust the defense!

[The Maestro]

Really? You're right, nobody used the word incompetent. It's insinuated with words like "arrogant" and "stubborn" and finally with questions like "Is it time to end the Bob Stoops era?"
If those are terms of endearment then I would hate to see threads if you and others didn't love him so much.

Well, if you don't think Stoops is arrogant and stubborn you haven't watched him much over the last 10 years. That doesn't mean he can't be a great coach, but he is those two things, along with being a great coach.

If anyone suggests the Bob Stoops era is over or needs to be I will tell them to please relax and go away for awhile. I want Bob here as long as he wants to stay here. Great spokesperson and face of the program, as well as a tremendous leader.

So there will be no list of names to replace Bob. Now if we are talking names to replace Brent Venables, I'll start researching.

[boomersooner2001]

no coach is better than BOB...he stays!!!
so does BV...just adjust the defense!

I couldn't agree with you more, DMack. Calling for, or even suggesting that BS needs to be replaced is pure insanity. Also, BV is a helluva coach, we all saw that from the moment he got here, with the LBs. Some coaches I'm sure, are more talented when they are only responsible for coaching a certain position rather than coordinating a group of positions. Hell that's why there are Offensive/Defensive position coaches, and Offensive/Defensive coordinators. If coordinating was easy, we'd see more unknowns being hired for those positions around the country.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Ok, I wasn't any happier about those losses than anyone else but I still judge Bob and his staff on their whole body of work. You say the team underperformed against WV but what about Mizzou? Did you expect OU to beat them a second time in Kansas City? I remember everyone sweating that game given the fact we had beat them in Norman earlier. My point is that there are more solid performances than bad and everyone is over-reacting without standing back and looking at the entire body of work. Bob's teams have won big games since that 2000 NC.

To be honest, maybe (just maybe) WV was the better team last year. Boise State was undefeated and only won on a trick play in OT. USC was just damn good..period. LSU won by 7 (In NO) and the outcome would have been different had Kejuan pulled in a high pass. Except for USC, those "BCS losses" everyone is obsessed with probably weren't as bad as they are portrayed. I still think there is credit to be given for getting there when over a hundred teams didn't.

chase daniels = chris simms - great against weaker competition, folds like a cheap tent when the opponent smacks him in the mouth.

USC - does anyone remember this game? we were tied until we made one boneheaded play that stunned everyone - the players, the coaches, the fans. our OC panicked and started trying to get it back in one play (much like he had against LSU the year before). white throws into 11 on 1 coverage for an INT and before you know it there is a 21 point swing. at that point, down 3 tds in the first we quit. that is in effect what damian is talking about - the 2000, 2001, and, heck the 2002 team BELIEVED they could come back and never stopped trying.

kstate, west virginia, boise state, pokey state 2002, aTm 2002, 1/2 of our games this year - all of these games were matchup problems. they had the personnel to exploit us and they did it. i think the loss to west virginia is the most unexplainable - they averaged like 25 yards/carry when reynolds was in the game...and he only played like 15 plays. we've heard over and over that they don't scheme around personnel, if they do their thing right it all falls into place. what we are seeing now is that while that works when you have 11 guys on the same page, it allows for career days when you don't. one thing i will add to this though is that opponent career days is an OU legacy as far back as i can remember. the problem is that its normally been in basketball, not football.

[OU_Sooners75]

There's an idea I bet Bob never had. "Talk" to the team...BRILLIANT!

I like hearing dmacks take on things (assuming it's really Mackey) but to assume he holds the secret to all the perceived problems on this team is..well...ignorant. Then again, I've never seen so many people more qualified than the OU coaching staff on one message board.

Sorry, some us have played football at the college level. And bringing in past players to help motivate a team or to explain what it means to play for the program is sometimes needed.

My comments have nothing to do with coaching qualifications. Something is amiss on our team and apparently the coaches cannot get it through to the players.

So instead of acting like you are a know-it-all, please stfu and listen sometimes.

[NormanPride]

Man, I really love football.

Dmack, my first college football experience was in 2000 while in the Pride, and I remember that feeling of invincibility well. Halfway through the third out in KC I was as unconcerned about the game as I am now. I knew we would win just like I knew it in the NC game.

I ask again... I wonder if our guys are having fun out there?

[OU_Sooners75]

Ok, I wasn't any happier about those losses than anyone else but I still judge Bob and his staff on their whole body of work. You say the team underperformed against WV but what about Mizzou? Did you expect OU to beat them a second time in Kansas City? I remember everyone sweating that game given the fact we had beat them in Norman earlier. My point is that there are more solid performances than bad and everyone is over-reacting without standing back and looking at the entire body of work. Bob's teams have won big games since that 2000 NC.


You must not have been watching OU football before 2007!
Since 2000, we have lost 2 NC games, one by a freaking blowout. 2 BCS Bowl games that we were clearly favored. Texas 3 times. A complete failure in the 2003 Big 12 Championship game. Let's not forget the games we should have won that we lost...i.e. Colorado last year and a few more.

All of these games, we are allowing an average of 35+ points scored on us!

Games that we have won since 2000 that were considered big games...
Texas (5 times), Big 12 Championship 4 times. Rose Bowl, and Holiday Bowl....other than that, I cannot remember a big game we have won.

[cvsooner]

The irony of our defense is that it seems to be oriented to preventing the big play...and then continually gives up big plays.

JKM, I do remember the USC game. It was two different games: one pre-fumbled punt, and one post-fumbled punt. I don't think I've ever seen a team collapse as quickly as we did, and especially so early.

I don't have any answers, either. I've written about this before. You do the best you can to motivate people, but in the long and short term, you have to motivate yourself. How do you convey that to people and then get them to do it? If I had the answer to that, I'd be wealthy beyond my wildest dreams.

[NormanPride]

Our team never gave up in 2006. Even though we got kicked in the teeth early against BSU, we still came back and took the lead. Now, we were an undisciplined team, and that's what killed us. Not heart, though.

[Crimsontothecore]

Sorry, some us have played football at the college level. And bringing in past players to help motivate a team or to explain what it means to play for the program is sometimes needed.

My comments have nothing to do with coaching qualifications. Something is amiss on our team and apparently the coaches cannot get it through to the players.

So instead of acting like you are a know-it-all, please stfu and listen sometimes.

I'm the know-it-all? I'm not one here trying to act like I know more about football strategy than a seasoned coaching staff. You fit that category so if you're gonna talk smack try to make it applicable of STFU!

[Harry Beanbag]

OK, ill bite...how many conf titles has Muschamp won in his career as a D coordinator? How many Natl titles has he coached for as a D coordinator? The reason I bring him up is cus he is the new hot D coordinator and everyone is slobbing on his knob

He has two conference titles and a national championship while at LSU, with the possibility of one more of each of those this season at Texas. I'm not really sure what the point of your post is though other than proving that Muschamp is a helluva DC.

[cvsooner]

Our team never gave up in 2006. Even though we got kicked in the teeth early against BSU, we still came back and took the lead. Now, we were an undisciplined team, and that's what killed us. Not heart, though.

True. That team started out behind the eight-ball and had something to prove. The 2005 squad, for different reasons, had a fair amount of heart too.

We're still just rehashing stuff that's been on here for years. Final analysis: getting the right mix of players, coaches, schemes, schedule, and circumstances together for a national championship is a mighty rare thing indeed....and despite all the hate of the BCS, it's harder now because it comes down to one game. Back in the Wilkinson and Switzer days it came down to opinions, regardless, in something of a popularity contest.

(By circumstances I would mean official rulings, weather, field anomalies...I still think if Tech had a decent playing surface, Sam wouldn't have had a concussion and Murray's knee cap would have been okay. That field, at night, in West Texas...with the wind...is the reason I think Tech will beat Texas Saturday.)

[dmack13]

I'm the know-it-all? I'm not one here trying to act like I know more about football strategy than a seasoned coaching staff. You fit that category so if you're gonna talk smack try to make it applicable of STFU!

see that's why i try not to get personal on here...because based on your logic any coach who has success knows what he's talking about. someone who actually lined up in between the lines does have a lot of feedback that is useful. i don't think people should take personal swipes at you Crimsontothecore...you have many valid points but you have to see that in order to be and stay an elite program, you have to continue to have the success you've had in the past...ask Phillip Fulmer, or the ole ball coach, they wanted Joe Pa outta town a few yrs back...Bob's criticism is valid. it's not like we lacked talent and fell off, we lacked passion, and that's something that can directly put on coaches. for as great as bob is...he's missed the boat in many of our big games of late...he EARNED the name Big Game Bob...and now he's earning his criticism.

and a seasoned coaching staff can be considered "relative" bcuz we've had a lot of turnover with our coaches...

one thing people don't talk about and i think is very important is the leadership we've lost in our coaches leaving...we have 3 head coaches who were position coaches excelling at other programs, Bob can't do it himself and guys like Leach, Mangino, Mike S, did a lot in getting us prepared. look at how mentally tough Leach's offenses are, or how scrappy KU is with inferior talent, Spurrior was cocky, Long was very inspirational, etc etc etc...i don't personally know a lot of these coaches, they seem like good guys, but they may be as much to blame as the players for our woes b/c THEY didn't have to battle to get us back here...THEY walked into a "power house"
that's an issue i never really thought about until now...

[BoulderSooner79]

why is it players need to be inspired by coaches to play hard? these players get to play on a huge national stage, and they are bored? inspiring players, to me, means they are bored or don't really care to be there. if that's true, i'm very disappointed. they get to play a game they love, a game that defines them as people. they should walk off that field so exhausted that they are damn near needing a trip to the hospital. either that, or what we are asking of them (to play inspired, with desire) is unreasonable.

when i played in college, in front of a few hundred fans and no media etc., we played because we loved to play and the idea of letting down your teammates was not an option.

i hope these players understand that their careers are over before they know it, and the regrets they have will be there forever (for the ones that care).

So you played at the college level, then you know better than I do. If the coaches are not part of the equation to inspire players, then a team at the total mercy of the luck of the draw. If the incoming players have that internal drive, we're golden. If not, we're hosed and the coaches can't do anything about it. I hope (and believe) the coaches have more control than that. At least they can focus individual desire into a co-ordinated team effort that has impact on the way the team plays.

I guess you could try to recruit players that are driven. But the coaches have only so much time with players during recruiting and kids change very quickly at that stage of life. And as dmak has admitted, talented HS kids are very selfish in general, so who knows how they will react at the next level. If coaches are just there for recruting and the X's and O's, they are getting paid too much.

[cvsooner]

Well, maybe if Will Ferrell was an OU alum, we'd get a motivational presentation like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO9daN5fH8M

[My Opinion Matters]

First off, thanks for all the input, dmack. It's great to have the perspective of a former player.

Secondly, the discussion in this thread is eerily similar to a thread started a couple of weeks ago. Whoever started that thread must be pretty insightful. :)

[The Maestro]

Classic! That was at practice today I heard...I wish OU had a guy like that as an alumni!

[cvsooner]

Maybe Toby Keith can set himself on fire. I was kinda hoping they set Pete Carroll on fire, myself.

[cvsooner]

Fire Schmitty, and hire USC's strength coach, Chuck Berry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHkAdusbwuA&feature=related

[JLEW1818]

Viagra

[dmack13]

maybe bob should go back to the sweater vest?

[boomersooner2001]

maybe bob should go back to the sweater vest?

and don the baseball cap rather than the visor?

[BigDeezy]

My thoughts on some of this:

Coaches need to inspire -- to teach, to organize and to lead. Players need to motivate themselves-- to learn and prepare, to perform to the best of their ability, and to play with passion and fire.

To a certain extent this is all a very complex mix and when even one element is missing it affects the whole. As a team, everyone needs to hold theselves and each other responsible.

How you do that is not always easy or simple. Some people can get motivated when they get their ash chewed out, some people get oppositional to an ash chewing. It isn't as simple as yelling at someone or tearing into them and getting the results you want. Nevertheless, it is the job of the coaches to know how to provide the inspiration to get the best out of their players, regardless. And the players need to have a mirror held up to them constantly so they can be challenged to have personal responsibility for how they play.

The underlying issue is desire. Hunger. Motivation which can only come from within. Everyone needs to have it. It is an internal thing which must be exprienced by everyone, must be personal, and also be part of the team's culture.

Sometimes you can't be really hungry until you experience it, feel the pain.

I wonder what will it take for the team to get really hungry again?

[JLEW1818]

Blame Canada

[Dan Thompson]

I hope after this game we can look at each other say "where have these guys been all year". "Why didn't they play that way in Dallas?"

[FlatheadSooner]

First: DMack - thank you for your time and feedback. It is incredibly insightful for us ignoramiouses and also food for the SoonerFan souls.

Second: Based on your comments on Mike Stoops, and just my experiences, I believe in the "making your own luck" and that a coach is the "hair that breaks the camels back" in that they can do a few things that bring on the ATTITUDE!!!

Third: I think the 2nd point is the "Top Down" - "Trickle Down" - "Whatever" effect that has been missing at key points in last few seasons - especially during the post season BIG games. I would think that the coach staff would not be thinking "we need to prepare the same disciplined way we've been doing all season (don't fix the system....) and thinking WAY outside the box on contingencies, etc., etc.. I said after the USuC fiasco, that we needed to hire a Motivational Speaker before any future such games. Sounds like such a small thing but I firmly believe that this is what keeps teams on top and it's not an easy thing to do - and easy to take for granted. I think that is must have been what helped Bud keep things going for 47 straight.

Again..Thanks for one of the best posts in a long time!!!!

[Curly Bill]

Are you serious? 10-3 is disappointing to you? you must be joking. Again, you have expectations that no coach, staff, or team could ever fulfill. Completely unrealistic. Yes, I think we should be thankful for 10-3 seasons. Do you know how many schools would die to have 10-3 seasons?

Are you the guy that came up with the idea to give trophys and ribbons just for participation?

[Sugalean]

LMAO @ DMack...

Lets see... YOU LOST TO THE NUMBER #1 Team in the nation! Only loss too? SMH ... yep the sky is falling.

[rainiersooner]

that usc stuff is "funny" but it is weak as any kind of argument or comparison as to our team. BTW - they have ONE bcs championship, just like us. Will Ferrell may be far cooler than toby keith, but that is an indictment of our geography, not our program.

[OU_Sooners75]

I'm the know-it-all? I'm not one here trying to act like I know more about football strategy than a seasoned coaching staff. You fit that category so if you're gonna talk smack try to make it applicable of STFU!


I have coached football now since 2000, I am 32. I do not act as if I am a know-it-all strategist when it comes to football. However I can spot when there are troubles amongst a team or a unit that should be performing better.

I do know this...If I was getting paid what the assistant coaches at OU do, I would be doing my damnedest to make sure the unit I am coaching is performing to par at least! And if it is something beyond me, I will be doing my best to change something. If that is brining in past players that set up this foundation, then so be it!

There is a difference between you and I. I played after the High School ranks. I have had the luxury of having some very good coaches in my playing career, and some very good championship caliber teams. Yes, it may not have been D-1A level of talent, but the competition and the objective is all the same none-the-less. You obviously did not.

The coaches may be doing their best when trying to get this team to play as a family or to play as a team, but something is amiss and that is this team is playing as individual units, not as a team! This is something that can occur when you have so much talent on one team.

[OU_Sooners75]

LMAO @ DMack...

Lets see... YOU LOST TO THE NUMBER #1 Team in the nation! Only loss too? SMH ... yep the sky is falling.

You fail to comprehend the conversation and what he is saying.

Go back to licking your wounds from Throat Slasher!

[OU_Sooners75]

And dmack 13! My son has your jersey that I bought him for his 2nd Bday, in 2000! #13!

And I have a beer in the fridge for ya. So if you are ever in the neighborhood...:)

Thank you very much for your insight. It is nice to see someone here giving their insight that has been in the program.

[badger]

Yeah, dmack, you should drop by a tailgate! We have free food and moonshine!

[Crimsontothecore]

I have coached football now since 2000, I am 32. I do not act as if I am a know-it-all strategist when it comes to football. However I can spot when there are troubles amongst a team or a unit that should be performing better.

I do know this...If I was getting paid what the assistant coaches at OU do, I would be doing my damnedest to make sure the unit I am coaching is performing to par at least! And if it is something beyond me, I will be doing my best to change something. If that is brining in past players that set up this foundation, then so be it!

There is a difference between you and I. I played after the High School ranks. I have had the luxury of having some very good coaches in my playing career, and some very good championship caliber teams. Yes, it may not have been D-1A level of talent, but the competition and the objective is all the same none-the-less. You obviously did not.

The coaches may be doing their best when trying to get this team to play as a family or to play as a team, but something is amiss and that is this team is playing as individual units, not as a team! This is something that can occur when you have so much talent on one team.

Paint any picture you want of yourself but in the end you're just another keyboard coach. Otherwise, I'm sure a brilliant mind like yours would be on the sidelines in Norman. The problem here is that too many people think that because they can post on a message board, they're smarter than the coaches.

By the way, your assumption is wrong. I, like you, played football (not D-1)

[OU_Sooners75]

Paint any picture you want of yourself but in the end you're just another keyboard coach. Otherwise, I'm sure a brilliant mind like yours would be on the sidelines in Norman. The problem here is that too many people think that because they can post on a message board, they're smarter than the coaches.

By the way, your assumption is wrong. I, like you, played football (not D-1)
I apologize for the wrong assumption...But....

You can say what you wish. The ignorance you bring to this issue is amazing.

I coach at perhaps the toughest level to coach at, the High School level. Where you are still teaching the fundamentals of the game. Unlike college, in HS the majority of the players are still learning the basics. You are teaching the linemen the proper footwork, the correct angles, the proper blocking/defending techniques. You are teaching skilled players more about their position than they learned in youth football.

I love where I am at. Would I like to make the money the coaches at OU or any other High Profile school makes? Yes, but at the same time...the stresses I endure are not as great. Yes wins and losses are the norm at this level, however, the gratifications you receive are greater. I serve not only as a coach, but as a mentor/roll model for many young men in the most influential time of their lives. The relationships that grow will go well beyond that of college. A lot of these kids will remember, hopefully, in a positive manner, what they learned while in High School, moreso than what they will beyond that point in their lives.

With all that said, ask yourself, do I wish to be on the staff at OU? The answer, no I do not.

I do not, nor will I, ever act like I know more about any team that I do not coach. However, I will when I see it, point out problems when I see them. If you are unappreciative of that that is your problem to deal with. All I ask, even in disagreement, show some respect and maturity in disagreeing with me or anyone else that is a member of this community.

[Johnny Utah]

I apologize for the wrong assumption...But....

You can say what you wish. The ignorance you bring to this issue is amazing.

I coach at perhaps the toughest level to coach at, the High School level. Where you are still teaching the fundamentals of the game. Unlike college, in HS the majority of the players are still learning the basics. You are teaching the linemen the proper footwork, the correct angles, the proper blocking/defending techniques. You are teaching skilled players more about their position than they learned in youth football.

I love where I am at. Would I like to make the money the coaches at OU or any other High Profile school makes? Yes, but at the same time...the stresses I endure are not as great. Yes wins and losses are the norm at this level, however, the gratifications you receive are greater. I serve not only as a coach, but as a mentor/roll model for many young men in the most influential time of their lives. The relationships that grow will go well beyond that of college. A lot of these kids will remember, hopefully, in a positive manner, what they learned while in High School, moreso than what they will beyond that point in their lives.

With all that said, ask yourself, do I wish to be on the staff at OU? The answer, no I do not.

I do not, nor will I, ever act like I know more about any team that I do not coach. However, I will when I see it, point out problems when I see them. If you are unappreciative of that that is your problem to deal with. All I ask, even in disagreement, show some respect and maturity in disagreeing with me or anyone else that is a member of this community.

Good perspective from somebody that's more than just a "keyboard coach".:)

[OU_Sooners75]

Good perspective from somebody that's more than just a "keyboard coach".:)


:)

Not sure if it is sarcasm or not. But I do appreciate the green.

I hate the term "keyboard coach." I know for some that post here is it hard to believe some members are actually coaches...but some of us are.

I just tend to spend too much time here when getting up in the mornings. :mad:

[soonersponge]

Is it 1996 all over again? :pop:

[OU_Sooners75]

Is it 1996 all over again? :pop:

When it comes to the overall team? HELL NO!

When it comes to how pathetic our defense is playing? Yes.

[Crimsontothecore]

When it comes to how pathetic our defense is playing? Yes.

Speaking of ignorance, you just took it to a whole new level with that statement. Your memory of 1996 is so skewed it's pathetic if you sincerely think THAT defense was anywhere close to the current defense.
You're 32? Even though you were just a pup in '96 surely you have a better memory than that. My son was only 12 at that time and even he remembers how pathetic those teams were, offensively and defensively.
Let me guess, you would bring back Rex Ryan and the vaunted "46" defense?
You make me laugh.

Oh, about your telling me to be more respectful. Does the following comment ring a bell? "Quit acting like a know it all and STFU"

Just helping you with that bad memory of yours.

[soonersponge]

I would argue the 98 defense under Rex Ryan was better than the one this year. They just had zero offense on the team and the defense was on the field all the time. It was a pretty good defense, actually.

[NormanPride]

What would you know? ;)

[Okie35]

My thoughts on some of this:

Coaches need to inspire -- to teach, to organize and to lead. Players need to motivate themselves-- to learn and prepare, to perform to the best of their ability, and to play with passion and fire.

To a certain extent this is all a very complex mix and when even one element is missing it affects the whole. As a team, everyone needs to hold theselves and each other responsible.

How you do that is not always easy or simple. Some people can get motivated when they get their ash chewed out, some people get oppositional to an ash chewing. It isn't as simple as yelling at someone or tearing into them and getting the results you want. Nevertheless, it is the job of the coaches to know how to provide the inspiration to get the best out of their players, regardless. And the players need to have a mirror held up to them constantly so they can be challenged to have personal responsibility for how they play.

The underlying issue is desire. Hunger. Motivation which can only come from within. Everyone needs to have it. It is an internal thing which must be exprienced by everyone, must be personal, and also be part of the team's culture.

Sometimes you can't be really hungry until you experience it, feel the pain.

I wonder what will it take for the team to get really hungry again?

i agree

[Okie35]

When it comes to the overall team? HELL NO!

When it comes to how pathetic our defense is playing? Yes.

not really when was the last time almost every team in the big 12 have had explosive offenses like this... ? in 96 NO... im not really mad at the defense too much... sometimes its the calls more times it ppl being out of position... besides the game in dallas i haven't been too livid... just need to take the times we show flashes of great defense and play that way the whole game...

[the_ouskull]

we are a great team and program, no doubt about it, but if you think you see the same football we brought back earlier this decade...then...i don't know what to tell you.

This is the most poignant quote from this entire thread, and one that everybody needs to read, and re-read before they blindly drink the Crimson Kool-Aid. The same colors. The same jerseys. The same Oklahoma. NOT the same Oklahoma Football.

the_ouskull

[Johnny Utah]

:)

Not sure if it is sarcasm or not. But I do appreciate the green.

I hate the term "keyboard coach." I know for some that post here is it hard to believe some members are actually coaches...but some of us are.

I just tend to spend too much time here when getting up in the mornings. :mad:

No scarasm here ... one can pretty much tell those who actually know and appreciate the sport from those that just jumped on the bandwagon.

[Vaevictis]

Heh, since we seem to have multiple people who know what they're talking about in here:

We've had 9 turnovers on defense in the past two games. What's the deal?

I'm not complaining, it's nice. But what changed?

[dmack13]

lets hit 200 posts just for kicks and giggles...
there has been plenty of good dialogue, and i lot of perspective, and i even argue with some of the statements i made on here just a few weeks ago. the fact of the matter is, we are passionate fans, passionate about our team, our program, our colors and we want perfection or at least our players and coaches to give and produce their best...bob hit a peek when he got us to play at our absolute best, and it sucks because we can't seem to replicate that. we have improved, but we still get "tea bagged" occasionally by opponents and i HATE it.
my end of the year prediction is as follows (honest truth)
we deal with a&m (50 something to 20 something-sad but true that they'll score that much) beat tech at home by 17 going away in the 4th and go to stillwater for absolute bedlam...like for real this time...the first time in a long time that potential championship implications are on the line for both teams...but in a gut wrencher...we win by 13 after someone hits robinson in the mouth and shakes his confidence...
one thing a lot of people forget is that we have the best offense in conference, one that on one can stop if we don't stop ourselves...so i'd like to see tech or osu try to stop us

boomer

[BoulderSooner79]

...
one thing a lot of people forget is that we have the best offense in conference, one that on one can stop if we don't stop ourselves...so i'd like to see tech or osu try to stop us

boomer

That is an odd attribute of fans this year. It seems that if the team has the game in hand by half-time, and wins by 3+ TDs - it somehow doesn't "count" if the other team scores 30 pts. Bob has made it clear he wants to maximize the number of possessions and plays by our offense this year. But that means the other guy gets more possessions and plays too. He's betting he will score more points/possession than the opponent and eventually pull away. So far, that has worked in every game but one, and it could have worked there too.

[OU_Sooners75]

Speaking of ignorance, you just took it to a whole new level with that statement. Your memory of 1996 is so skewed it's pathetic if you sincerely think THAT defense was anywhere close to the current defense.
You're 32? Even though you were just a pup in '96 surely you have a better memory than that. My son was only 12 at that time and even he remembers how pathetic those teams were, offensively and defensively.
Let me guess, you would bring back Rex Ryan and the vaunted "46" defense?
You make me laugh.

Oh, about your telling me to be more respectful. Does the following comment ring a bell? "Quit acting like a know it all and STFU"

Just helping you with that bad memory of yours.

In 1996 I was worried about playing football as a starter in college. Not following OU football that much, since I had to deal with my own agenda.

And your last paragraph...If the shoe fits, wear it. Stop being a dork and all would be good.

[OU_Sooners75]

Crimsontothecore....

Under Stoops, the 2008 defense is on its way to being the worst in his tenure...

Year...Yards/game....Points/game
1999...344.40....18.4
2000...278.92....16.0
2001...262.83....13.8
2002...293.14....15.4
2003...259.64....15.3
2004...299.00....16.8
2005...306.67....23.1
2006...287.14....17.3
2007...338.36....20.3
2008...353.11....23.1


Bold Italic = Worst in each category before 2008.

[EnragedOUfan]

At least this defense is young. However, what I fear the most is seeing Holmes leave. That guy is playmaker. There have been numerous times where touchdowns have been prevented due to the speed and playmaking abilities of that man. Replacing him will be the hardest hole to fill in my opinion...

BOOMER!

[Theskipster]

Crimsontothecore....

Under Stoops, the 2008 defense is on its way to being the worst in his tenure...

Year...Yards/game....Points/game
1999...344.40....18.4
2000...278.92....16.0
2001...262.83....13.8
2002...293.14....15.4
2003...259.64....15.3
2004...299.00....16.8
2005...306.67....23.1
2006...287.14....17.3
2007...338.36....20.3
2008...353.11....23.1


Bold Italic = Worst in each category before 2008.

There are a lot more possessions by opposing teams this year because of OU's offense so stats per game may be misleading.

Stats per play or possession could be more helpful. But remember we haven't even played OSU and Tech yet this year.

2008 - #44 at 5.04 yards per play
2007 - #34 at 4.98 yards per play
2006 - #21 at 4.69 yards per play
2005 - #11 at 4.43 yards per play
2004 - #20 at 4.79 yards per play
2003 - #4 at 4.13 yards per play
2002 - #15 at 4.42 yards per play
2001 - #4 at 3.38 yards per play
2000 - #7 at 4.14 yards per play

Edit: Went back and double checked. Opposing teams aren't really getting a lot more plays in a game against us.

2008 - 70 defensive plays / game
2007 - 68 defensive plays / game
2006 - 62 defensive plays / game
2005 - 70 defensive plays / game
2004 - 65 defensive plays / game
2003 - 63 defensive plays / game
2002 - 66 defensive plays / game
2001 - 68 defensive plays / game
2000 - 68 defensive plays / game

That should also help end talk that the defense is tiring because of the hurry up offense.

[BoulderSooner79]

There are a lot more possessions by opposing teams this year because of OU's offense so stats per game may be misleading.

Stats per play or possession could be more helpful. But remember we haven't even played OSU and Tech yet this year.

2008 - #44 at 5.04 yards per play
2007 - #34 at 4.98 yards per play
2006 - #21 at 4.69 yards per play
2005 - #11 at 4.43 yards per play
2004 - #20 at 4.79 yards per play
2003 - #4 at 4.13 yards per play
2002 - #15 at 4.42 yards per play
2001 - #4 at 3.38 yards per play
2000 - #7 at 4.14 yards per play

Edit: Went back and double checked. Opposing teams aren't really getting a lot more plays in a game against us.

2008 - 70 defensive plays / game
2007 - 68 defensive plays / game
2006 - 62 defensive plays / game
2005 - 70 defensive plays / game
2004 - 65 defensive plays / game
2003 - 63 defensive plays / game
2002 - 66 defensive plays / game
2001 - 68 defensive plays / game
2000 - 68 defensive plays / game

That should also help end talk that the defense is tiring because of the hurry up offense.

Those are great stats - where did you get them? Can you get the average margin of victory for each year ? I know we are around 26pts this year.

[scha2707]

I'm trying to determine if this is really dmack. One thing most players would know are some of the names of the equipment managers during their time at OU of which I was one.

[Theskipster]

Those are great stats - where did you get them? Can you get the average margin of victory for each year ? I know we are around 26pts this year.

I got those numbers from the official NCAA stat website.

These I got from jhowell.net (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Oklahoma.htm)
Including loses (rounded):

2008 - 27 points
2007 - 22 points
2006 - 13 points
2005 - 04 points
2004 - 18 points
2003 - 28 points
2002 - 23 points
2001 - 17 points
2000 - 22 points

[NormanPride]

Once we switched to the 4-3, the difference is startling.

[BoonesFarmSooner]

I'm trying to determine if this is really dmack. One thing most players would know are some of the names of the equipment managers during their time at OU of which I was one.

It's him. Not very many people knew about the wx doods OU chat from back in the day and he and Roy would get on there from time to time...


Interesting stats, skipster! What scares me is giving up over 5 yards per play and we haven't even faced Tech or OSU yet... That number could get even uglier before the season ends.

[JLB]

All the players look at Oklahoma as a "Get Rich Quick Scheme".There all in it for me and not the Team.Go to OU and your going to the NFL.
All the coaches make so much money a year,they are to rich to care anymore.
What will make this team hungry again is for the coaches to get motivated and show some emotion on the sidelines and at practice.

[OU_Sooners75]

There are a lot more possessions by opposing teams this year because of OU's offense so stats per game may be misleading.

Stats per play or possession could be more helpful. But remember we haven't even played OSU and Tech yet this year.

2008 - #44 at 5.04 yards per play
2007 - #34 at 4.98 yards per play
2006 - #21 at 4.69 yards per play
2005 - #11 at 4.43 yards per play
2004 - #20 at 4.79 yards per play
2003 - #4 at 4.13 yards per play
2002 - #15 at 4.42 yards per play
2001 - #4 at 3.38 yards per play
2000 - #7 at 4.14 yards per play

Edit: Went back and double checked. Opposing teams aren't really getting a lot more plays in a game against us.

2008 - 70 defensive plays / game
2007 - 68 defensive plays / game
2006 - 62 defensive plays / game
2005 - 70 defensive plays / game
2004 - 65 defensive plays / game
2003 - 63 defensive plays / game
2002 - 66 defensive plays / game
2001 - 68 defensive plays / game
2000 - 68 defensive plays / game

That should also help end talk that the defense is tiring because of the hurry up offense.

The average in 3 games left will not go that much higher.
2 plays does not equal that many more plays during a game. No excuse for our defense, which is loaded with talent, to be making so many bad plays and to be performing so poorly quite often.

I have seen some signs of brilliance on the defense. But I have seen some very bad plays as well.

It comes down to discipline as a player, scheme as a coach, and conditioning by player and coach.

[NormanPride]

English has been disappointing after his appendicitis (not really his fault), Granger and McCoy have been dinged up, Alexander is just now getting snaps because he was freaking stabbed before the first game, Reynolds is out for the season, and our other two LBs are in their first year. It's been a rough year for the front seven even before you consider the quality of teams we've played and the lack of consistency in the lineup due to injuries. Even Nic is having problems now since we've put him in as MLB a few times.

Venables is doing what he can, but we were depleted to start with, and we've been amazingly snakebitten with injuries and special teams SNAFUs. I don't mind his game plans as much as the way the general feel of the defense is going under his leadership.

[BoulderSooner79]

I got those numbers from the official NCAA stat website.

These I got from jhowell.net (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Oklahoma.htm)
Including loses (rounded):

2008 - 27 points
2007 - 22 points
2006 - 13 points
2005 - 04 points
2004 - 18 points
2003 - 28 points
2002 - 23 points
2001 - 17 points
2000 - 22 points

Quite an accomplishment of the over-all team that the margin of victory trails only the '03 team. That '03 team was *very* good on defense as well as offense.

[BoulderSooner79]

Hey dmack13, we did get to 200 posts !

[soonersponge]

I'm trying to determine if this is really dmack. One thing most players would know are some of the names of the equipment managers during their time at OU of which I was one.

Are you from Fairview?

[Crimsontothecore]

Crimsontothecore....

Under Stoops, the 2008 defense is on its way to being the worst in his tenure...

Year...Yards/game....Points/game
1999...344.40....18.4
2000...278.92....16.0
2001...262.83....13.8
2002...293.14....15.4
2003...259.64....15.3
2004...299.00....16.8
2005...306.67....23.1
2006...287.14....17.3
2007...338.36....20.3
2008...353.11....23.1


Bold Italic = Worst in each category before 2008.

And why are you telling me this? When did I ever say this years defense was equal to the others under Stoops?

Surely you realize how inaccurate it is to show these PPG/YPG stats. These stats could only be relevant if the oppositions offensive output is absolutely equal for each year, otherwise they are speculation.

[scha2707]

Are you from Fairview?

No, Cordell.

[OU_Sooners75]

And why are you telling me this? When did I ever say this years defense was equal to the others under Stoops?

Surely you realize how inaccurate it is to show these PPG/YPG stats. These stats could only be relevant if the oppositions offensive output is absolutely equal for each year, otherwise they are speculation.

I thought I made it pretty clear why I posted them...

"Under Stoops, the 2008 defense is on its way to being the worst in his tenure..."

The stats are very relevant. Considering Points are what the defense is there to prevent. and giving up a lot of yards per game tend to lead to a lot more points scored.

Face it man, OU's defense is facing its worst season under Stoops. The average plays the defense is on the field is about the same as every other year (70/game). Combine that with how many yards we are giving up, even to schitty teams, and the points we allow....It all adds up to the fact that if OU offense was just a fraction worse*, than we would not be 8-1.


*Note....this is not saying our offense is bad...just means if it was not as prolific.

[dmack13]

equip guys...wes- now at OSU, gt (greg tipton) now a head honcho over all sports, carla (retired and a stay at home mommy and married to strength coach) want me to keep going...cuz i can

=)
boomer!

[OU_Sooners75]

equip guys...wes- now at OSU, gt (greg tipton) now a head honcho over all sports, carla (retired and a stay at home mommy and married to strength coach) want me to keep going...cuz i can

=)
boomer!

No need too. Don't worry about the doubters.

[Boomer.....]

I guess that speech worked.

One more game to go.

[PLaw]

Yeah, I almost feel bad calling him DMack...but this one has better answers than "where to catch a bus in Phoenix"!!

or, the new light rail.

I'm in PHX about 30 weeks out of the year on business - in fact, went to the Tilted Kilt / Scottsdale on Maestro's recommendation. It was good, but I prefer the vibe at Four Peaks or the one of the Yard Houses.

BOOMER

[rawlingsHOH]

Reading old threads is fun. Especially when they come from years you play for a National Title.

[tanjou]

Hahaha, This thread was five stars when it was first resurrected, now it's four stars.

Even though it's even more applicable to this season than last.

[Desert Sapper]

I think the whole team from 2000 needs to have a reunion in the current team's locker room. Whatever fire and enthusiasm can be imbued on this current squad, the better. Saturday was the least motivated performance I've seen from the Sooners in some time. Whatever 'it' is, we need to get it back.

[85Sooner]

D-Mack - thanks for the post; one of the most valuable 45 minutes I've ever spent on this board.

BOOMER!!!

Amen! Thanks D. Wasn't Mike and Brent sort of a good cop bad cop combo? Bob doesn't seem involved. Special teams look highschoolish and the unpredictable plays seem gone. All since Mike left. I love bob but he looks as frustrated as Barry did the last year he was at Dallas and I think we all know what was going on there with mr great QB when he had a seven step drop.

[VA Sooner]

dmack13... a lot of the stuff you are saying is true... attitude and belief is a lot of this and this season.

Just reading your posts in this thread... I'd like for you to stop by the locker room prior to this Saturday's game and breathe some fire into these boys. We'll be doing our part supporting the team, but someone needs to get this team to start believing.

Injuries are part of the game... but getting your "gorilla nuts" back and beating the Pokes this weekend is also part of it. Shake off the pain, and get right back in there.

Tell Bob I said hello.

[Desert Sapper]

Somebody must have talked to the D, because they were fired up.