Big 12 considering East vs West

[Collier11]

This article just suggests it but they were talking about how the conference was actually "talking about it" inside closed doors on ESPN this morning. This alignment isnt too bad I suppose

Big 12 Football: North Division doesn't have it
BY LEE BARFKNECHT
WORLD-HERALD STAFF WRITER



So much for all that offseason football talk about the Big 12 North Division catching up with the South.

The modest one-year blip of 2007, when the North went 10-9 against the South thanks to Missouri and Kansas having their best seasons in 40 years, doesn't reverse a stout and growing trend of league imbalance that began seven seasons ago.

Things are tipping as bad as ever this season. The North is 2-10 in games against the South, with seven more to play.

And how many times will the North team be favored in those seven? Once, when Missouri plays at Baylor this week.

Last Saturday looked like a good time for the North to gain some ground, or at least restore some pride. Four cross-division games were played, all in North stadiums.

The results:

• Kansas, a one-point favorite over Texas Tech, gave up touchdowns on the Red Raiders' first eight full possessions in a 63-21 loss.

The blowout led to a nearly vacant stadium near game's end. That produced the quote of the week from the KU press box announcer, who relays notes and statistics to sportswriters. As we headed out for interviews, he deadpanned: "Our attendance — a little earlier today — was 50,125."

• In a pillow fight between the two teams without a league victory, Texas A&M scored 21 second-quarter points — its most in any one period this season — and pulled away to a 49-35 win over Iowa State.

• Kansas State wasn't expected to beat Oklahoma. But the Wildcats didn't figure to give up 55 points in the first half of a 58-35 loss.

• Only Nebraska upheld the North's honor. But the Huskers had to rally in the second half for a 32-20 win over Baylor, which has an all-time Big 12 record of 12-88.

When the North-South imbalance comes up, Big 12 executives and coaches usually say everything is cyclical and is sure to flip around at some point.

OK, then explain these marks for the North Division since going 11-8 against the South in 2001: 7-12 in 2002, 7-12 in 2003, 3-16 in 2004, 7-12 in 2005, 5-14 in 2006, 10-9 in 2007 and a potential 3-16 this season.

Or check the Big 12 North's record in the league championship game in that stretch.

The only North victory was Kansas State's 35-7 upset of the decade in 2003 over an Oklahoma team considered up to that time as one of the greatest ever. In the other five games, all South wins, the average score was 40-7.

A few graybeard writers in this conference, including me, have been warning about how the North may never close the gap because of simple economics.

Texas, Oklahoma and Texas A&M have huge budgets and huge stadiums to drive revenue. At Oklahoma State and Texas Tech, highly motivated boosters have emerged in recent years to write huge checks to move those schools into the fast lane and keep them there.

Regardless of the desire of North schools to spend and compete, only Nebraska has the budgetary and stadium firepower for a long-term battle, though Missouri is creeping closer.

So how about a spread-the-wealth realignment that evens up the economic "haves" and "have-nots?" Here is one I proposed four years ago. It may be even more relevant today:

• Big 12 West: Nebraska, Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas, Kansas State.

• Big 12 East: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Missouri, Iowa State, Texas A&M, Baylor.
Then institute a 5-2-1 scheduling model that allows one cross-division game a year to preserve an old rivalry.

School officials say that competitive balance isn't tightly tied to athletic spending, and that even the biggest-budget schools can have down periods.

I'll buy that, to some extent. But you can't ignore the large advantages the South Division schools have in money, weather and proximity to recruits.

At some point, we hope Big 12 leaders address whether they like having the strongest division in major-college football or would prefer a better balance of power for overall excellence.

[Jacie]

So there would be two OU-Texas games most years, right?

[Boomer38Sooner]

I like the two east and west divisions. This could also ruin the Texas series just like the Big 12 made it to where the Nebraska game got played half the time.

[1890MilesToNorman]

This guy can't read a map!

[OUHOMER]

last time I looked at a map both KU and K St were east of both OU and osu

[yermom]

if we realigned, Texas or Nebraska would need to be in our division

[All_Day_28]

if we realigned, Texas or Nebraska would need to be in our division

EXACTLY!!!

and o-state

[85sooners]

:gary:

[sooner94]

Funny, I was having a conversation with a guy at work this morning about how a different split of the Big 12 would be better than North/South.

Doesn't have to be East/West. Could be Division I/Division II. Too much concentration of power in the South right now.

[yermom]

EXACTLY!!!

and o-state

screw Mike Holder and the Pokes

they can suck it

i still don't see how realigning would help North teams

this way they don't have to play all of the South teams every year

[1890MilesToNorman]

Do we realign every time one division dominates another? Time will cure the lopsidedness of the divisions.

[1890MilesToNorman]

or maybe we start a remedial 3rd division for the special teams, buy the short buses and everything.

[Lott's Bandana]

meh.

[OUHOMER]

Why not just make a new conference. Drop ISU, BU, osu, tx am. get rid of the conference title game.

WIN WIN WIN.... drop the weak links and move on..

[bluedogok]

• Big 12 West: Nebraska, Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas, Kansas State.

• Big 12 East: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Missouri, Iowa State, Texas A&M, Baylor.
Then institute a 5-2-1 scheduling model that allows one cross-division game a year to preserve an old rivalry.
He said to use a 5-2-1 model which I think is what the SEC uses.

So there would be a game every season with:
The 5 division teams: Oklahoma State, Missouri, Iowa State, Texas A&M, Baylor
The 1 "rival" team: Texas

The 2 other division teams in two year rotations: Nebraska, Colorado, Texas Tech, Kansas, Kansas State

[OUmillenium]

Interesting. But no thanks.

[8timechamps]

Do we realign every time one division dominates another? Time will cure the lopsidedness of the divisions.

Yup.

Seriously, do that many people think the pokes and red raiders will be powerhouses for any considerable length of time. (I hate that I used "powerhouse" and "osu" in the same sentence even).

[soonervegas]

I think they should keep the current alignment, but allow two north or south teams to play in the championship IF they hold the top two records.

[Collier11]

A little off subject but I read on cbssports or somewhere like that and they are saying puke will be preseason top 5 next yr...my first reaction is to laugh, my 2nd is to laugh again, my third is to want to puke at listening to the idiot ag fans all offseason until we thump their arses in Norman, and finally I think I might laugh some more

[8timechamps]

A little off subject but I read on cbssports or somewhere like that and they are saying puke will be preseason top 5 next yr...my first reaction is to laugh, my 2nd is to laugh again, my third is to want to puke at listening to the idiot ag fans all offseason until we thump their arses in Norman, and finally I think I might laugh some more

You gotta love the pre-pre-pre (stll in the current season) pre-season predictions.

[tommieharris91]

He said to use a 5-2-1 model which I think is what the SEC uses.

So there would be a game every season with:
The 5 division teams: Oklahoma State, Missouri, Iowa State, Texas A&M, Baylor
The 1 "rival" team: Texas

The 2 other division teams in two year rotations: Nebraska, Colorado, Texas Tech, Kansas, Kansas State

In that model, one of Texas's rivals doesn't play Texas every year.

[sooneron]

double meh

[KingDavid]

double meh

sooneron - what is that picture of in your signature?

[WA. Sooner]

Just do away with the divisions. Play all the teams (11) and 2 out of confrence teams, then decalre the champion with the tie breaker being rank

[adoniijahsooner]

Just do away with the divisions. Play all the teams (11) and 2 out of confrence teams, then decalre the champion with the tie breaker being rank

best answer. forget the ccg.

[Jdog]

Just do away with the divisions. Play all the teams (11) and 2 out of confrence teams, then decalre the champion with the tie breaker being rank

So a 13 game regular season for everyone.

[Jdog]

The state of Texas will not let UT and A&M only play every two years.

[badger]

I wish we only had to play osu every two years.

[BornandBred]

This just in:
Obama elected Big 12 Commissioner, decides to redistribute the wealth of power

[OUDoc]

I always thought it should be East/West. It didn't see fair that OU and osu got stuck with all the SWC texas teams and 6 of the 8 old Big Eight teams got the other division.

[SoonersEnFuego]

No

[Partial Qualifier]

sooneron - what is that picture of in your signature?

A UT logo-shaped baby turd in the bottom of a diaper.

It took me several looks to figure it out too :)

[badger]

You know, when the Big 12 started, the divisions WERE more even handed and even favored the north.

You know, NEBRASKA, and their three crystal footballs, Kansas State and their should-be-in-BCS-bowl-with-top-10-ranking-but-denied-due-to-prestige-lacking-and-such. Can't forget Colorado, and their sweater vested Rick New-high-zal. Back when the Big 12 formed, the only good team was A&M!

:D My my, how times have changed.

:mad: Further proof that we must appreciate the team and coaches we have now, lest something happen within the next 10 years and we experience what the Aggies have now... or what Nebraska has now... or what any of the former powers like Miami, UCLA, Washington, etc. have now.

[mdklatt]

He said to use a 5-2-1 model which I think is what the SEC uses.


That's because the SEC is retarded. The Big 10++ does something goofy like that, too. Screw that nonsense. When the Big 12 formed, the South was the weak sister of the conference. Doesn't it help the North teams because they don't have to play all the powerhouse South teams every year? The North-South championship record is 5-7, hardly a major imbalance. Whoever thought of this idea is an idiot. Don't get bitter, get better.

[Half a Hundred]

West: Colorado, Texas, Tech, aTm, KU, K-State
East: OU, Poke State, Nebraska, Mizzou, Iowa State, Baylor

Rivalries: NU-CU, OU-Texas, KU-Mizzou, ISU-K-State, aTm-Baylor, Tech-Poke State

This also allows for very compelling Big 12 championship games, as who wouldn't want to see a rematch between any of these rivalry teams for all the marbles?

Here's (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&ll=32.23139,-99.865723&spn=13.159095,19.775391&z=6&msid=118405091755845263722.00045a7cdc87f5484306e) a map version of the realignment

[yermom]

aTm-Baylor

*snicker*

[setem]

http://poststuff5.entensity.net/102708/cat.gif

[Ardmore_Sooner]

I just don't see how this would be a bad idea. I don't like the teams that this guy picked for the divisions, but I think it would mix things up and restore the possibility of playing Nebraska every year. It would also make for a better CCG too.

[King Crimson]

I just don't see how this would be a bad idea. I don't like the teams that this guy picked for the divisions, but I think it would mix things up and restore the possibility of playing Nebraska every year. It would also make for a better CCG too.

so, we play Nebraska every year but not Texas?

[Ardmore_Sooner]

so, we play Nebraska every year but not Texas?

5-2-1 schedule. This would assure that we play BOTH every year.

[ouwasp]

I wish we only had to play osu every two years.

It would be nice to remove their reason for existence wouldn't it...:)

They would probably implode. Yes. Let's do this.

[WA. Sooner]

So a 13 game regular season for everyone.
Why not. we play 12 now plus a conf champ game maybe. So just do away with the champ game and everyone play 13 and each other. Tie breaker will be rank. If a school only wanted to play 12 so be it

[CORNholio]

Hell, just throw OSU and and TTech in the other division. Bring down the Kansas schools and call the divisions something other than North/South. Possibly give ISU the boot and bring in TCU.

It could be:

OU
TX
A&M
Colorado
Kansas
Kansas State

and

Neb
Mizzou
TTech
OSU
TCU
Baylor

Thats a pretty salty alignment. Would definitely compete for the toughest conf out there. The only problem I have with realignment is that people forget that in the early years of the Big 12 it was the North Division that dominated the South with KSU and Nebraska being the former banner teams of the conference. Colorado was decent as well. OU and TX were mediocre to horrible and A&M was the annual underachieving leader of the South.

[Half a Hundred]

aTm-Baylor

*snicker*

It's not a perfect system...

Wait. Yes it is.

[A Horn]

This is horrible, this idea.

[Half a Hundred]

This is horrible, this idea.

Why?

[A Horn]

Why?

I don't want Texas and OU seperated. Makes sense for the CCG only, and is one of the huge things which sheds the spotlight on us for the national audience, and for the voters in regard to a Naitonal Title gaem bid. If it was "Well, they'll play again in two months" I think the game would lose some luster, and that would **** me off to no end. The fair/game/weekend is the way it is because its do or die.

I also don't think major realignment of rivalries/schedules is necesarry just because the South sports a lot of good teams right now. What if they had done it when the North was dominating earlier in the conference's youth? Would be totally different and I think its unnecessary. Just IMO

[Half a Hundred]

I don't want Texas and OU seperated. Makes sense for the CCG only, and is one of the huge things which sheds the spotlight on us for the national audience, and for the voters in regard to a Naitonal Title gaem bid. If it was "Well, they'll play again in two months" I think the game would lose some luster, and that would **** me off to no end. The fair/game/weekend is the way it is because its do or die.

I also don't think major realignment of rivalries/schedules is necesarry just because the South sports a lot of good teams right now. What if they had done it when the North was dominating earlier in the conference's youth? Would be totally different and I think its unnecessary. Just IMO

I don't see it that way at all. The fair weekend never was about do or die for most of its existence, and it still was one of the best experiences in College Football. The possibility of a rematch would draw more appeal, in my estimation, to the Big 12 championship game, which has been a joke for the past few years (last year notwithstanding), thus boosting the winning team's chances in making it to the NCG.

Meanwhile, through the realignment, we get to rectify much of the damage that was wrought upon the old Big 8 when the Big 12 was formed, most notably the end of the annual OU-Nebraska game. This setup also keeps the public schools of each state together, preserving those rivalries.

Finally, if it had been split up like this from the beginning, yes, you would see a lot of KSU-NU Big 12 championships in the late 90s. That would have been a good thing, btw, because it would allow the conference to showcase its best teams, rather than the pattern of juggernaut vs scrubs (which scrubs managed to pull off four times) that dominated the CCG setup for years. Likewise, you'd see a lot of OU-Texas rematches recently, but that's simply because those have been the two best teams over the last few.

Wouldn't you rather raise the conference profile, leading to better TV contracts and coverage, than simply do nothing so that OU and Texas can be in the same division?

[A Horn]

I don't see it that way at all. The fair weekend never was about do or die for most of its existence, and it still was one of the best experiences in College Football. The possibility of a rematch would draw more appeal, in my estimation, to the Big 12 championship game, which has been a joke for the past few years (last year notwithstanding), thus boosting the winning team's chances in making it to the NCG.

Meanwhile, through the realignment, we get to rectify much of the damage that was wrought upon the old Big 8 when the Big 12 was formed, most notably the end of the annual OU-Nebraska game. This setup also keeps the public schools of each state together, preserving those rivalries.

Finally, if it had been split up like this from the beginning, yes, you would see a lot of KSU-NU Big 12 championships in the late 90s. That would have been a good thing, btw, because it would allow the conference to showcase its best teams, rather than the pattern of juggernaut vs scrubs (which scrubs managed to pull off four times) that dominated the CCG setup for years. Likewise, you'd see a lot of OU-Texas rematches recently, but that's simply because those have been the two best teams over the last few.

Wouldn't you rather raise the conference profile, leading to better TV contracts and coverage, than simply do nothing so that OU and Texas can be in the same division?

You make some very good points. My feeling on it, is don't do it just because power has shiftedd, because it may shift again.

I would defenitely like to see Mizzou-NU-Colorado-Texas-OU play each other every year, but then who gets left out then? Just saying

[Collier11]

For those of you who cant read, OU/tx will still play every yr, they just wont be in the same division

[NorthernIowaSooner]

if they were gonna do an honest east vs west attempt it wouldnt change the power in the big 12, the east would be nebraska, mizzou, iowa state, ku and k state and probably tamu vs the west of OU, osu, ttu, texas, baylor and colorado, if you look at it geographically it only changes one school and doesnt change the power.

east and west would be a joke if they didnt align it by the actual map and not how they want to split power, either way its fine how it is eventually someone in the north will stop sucking

[Half a Hundred]

if they were gonna do an honest east vs west attempt it wouldnt change the power in the big 12, the east would be nebraska, mizzou, iowa state, ku and k state and probably tamu vs the west of OU, osu, ttu, texas, baylor and colorado, if you look at it geographically it only changes one school and doesnt change the power.

east and west would be a joke if they didnt align it by the actual map and not how they want to split power, either way its fine how it is eventually someone in the north will stop sucking

The rules and conditions that allowed Big 12 North teams to thrive are long gone. Recruits just don't want to play in 15 degree temperatures at the end of the season. Frankly, if Nebraska manages to come back to national prominence without the state-wide football factory system, grayshirts, partial qualifiers and state scholarships, it will be nothing short of a miracle.

It's my distinct belief that the SWC schools gamed the formation of the Big 12 specifically to ensure the domination of the Texas teams in the long run. If it weren't for OU's ascent right now, a Texas team would have played in the Big 12 championship every single year that the conference existed. Knowing that they had the massive population advantage and with the help of rules changes, it is inevitable that they will be the perennial premier teams in the Big 12 once OU returns to its dormant period if things stay as is.

The solution proposed reduces the Texas schools to a maximum of three in a division, while putting them up against three teams that have potential for national prominence (CU, KU, KSU). All those schools are close to major metropolitan areas, which somewhat mitigates the inherent recruiting advantage the Texas schools have. Meanwhile, CU and KU have town atmosphere advantages that only Austin can really match/surpass, providing for a wider recruiting appeal.

Meanwhile, in the Eastern Division, you have three schools who have potential for national prominence (OU, O-State unfortunately, Mizzou) due to the same population and geography factors. This benefits the conference due to the three schools being near major regional population centers. You can see this in the way that the Big 12 was pumping up MU and KU last year, they want that KC-StL money BADLY.

Nebraska may be able to put up a fight, but as I stated earlier, the likelihood of this is much diminished in the present climate. They may get a 10-win season every once in a while, but it won't be perennial any time soon. Baylor, on the other hand, may actually benefit from being separated from the other Texas teams, as they will be able to tell recruits that they can stay at home in Texas, but do not have to seemingly only play Texas teams and gain more national exposure. This is similar to a major part of how Switzer recruited the SWC territory so well. Iowa State is going to be Iowa State. There's little we can do about that.

Meanwhile, every major rivalry is preserved on an annual basis, and OU/O-State get to play more Big 8 teams that there are greater histories with.

Really, I don't see the disadvantages, if you're not a Texas state school. The Big 12 can ill afford to go down the path of the SWC, become a conference where the Texas schools only have any sort of national legitimacy, and thus dwindle into irrelevance as the rest of the nation switches its channels to more compelling matchups in the other conferences. It wasn't too long ago that half the SEC was terrible, and yet, because they put on a "big game" every week (due to the rivalry system), they still stayed relevant, and thus reap the benefits as they go into one of their periods of plenty.

Likewise, when 3/4 of the Big 12 sucked, no one cared because half the matchups were between teams that had no history between them whatsoever, and the ones that did have history usually consisted of OU or Nebraska beating up on them on a consistent basis. That just doesn't make for good TV, and like it or not, that's what CFB is these days.

NB: Oklahoma State has every single advantage that OU does, save for two very big ones: past investment leading to national prominence and storied tradition, and competent management at any level. Facilities used to be the big #3. A blind squirrel eventually finds a nut, and once OSU does, "team on the rise" isn't going to be a joke anymore. They most likely won't get to OU's level of recognition, but they may become a latter-day Michigan State, causing constant trouble for the big dogs and squirting out a conference title or two every couple of decades. So long as we beat them, this doesn't bother me, it gets us better TV contracts

[Half a Hundred]

Sorry for the wall of text.

[soonervegas]

Ugh. Just have one division, go to 9 conference games, and take the best two teams at the end of the year for the big 12 championship. Your tie breaker could be head to head , then bcs ranking. I love everything about the big 12 except the best two teams consistently not making it to the title game.

[MI Sooner]

Half a hundred:

Please explain tOSU, Michigan, and Penn St. if no one wants to play in 15 degree weather at the end of the year anymore. Also, ND seems to get it's fair share of recruits, and South Bend, IN isn't balmy in November.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

if we realigned, Texas or Nebraska would need to be in our divisionYou gotta be kidding. We win the East every yr, and play tx in the Big 12 championship game, and half the time during the regular season. The freakin' city of Dallas is robbed of it's Texas home game against OU half the time...this is a MAJOR improvement!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

or maybe we start a remedial 3rd division for the special teams, buy the short buses and everything.
Baylor
Iowa State
aTm
lOSUr

Hell, yes

[oudivesherpa]

Why not just make a new conference. Drop ISU, BU, osu, tx am. get rid of the conference title game.

WIN WIN WIN.... drop the weak links and move on..


I agree, get rid of the conference title game--then we'd be just like the Big X and the Pac X.
Penn State is going to be in the BCS Title game this year and again the Big X Representative will get its clock cleaned.

[hink4769]

Lets just dissolve the big 12, reform the big 8 and still play TX every year. Then we won't have to deal with a CCG, aTm aggies, or sand aggies when traveling to away games. It may not be the most powerful conference, but I don't really care how good the conference is, only how good OU is. I don't think conference strength counts for that much in the end anyway most years, after all Ohio St. went to the championship game last year, and WVU would have if it won its last game despite the fact that everyone knew that the big 10 and big east were awful. OU usually schedules good OOC series anyway so that helps their SOS.

[GottaHavePride]

You gotta be kidding. We win the East every yr, and play tx in the Big 12 championship game, and half the time during the regular season. The freakin' city of Dallas is robbed of it's Texas home game against OU half the time...this is a MAJOR improvement!

So you're OK with not having OU/Texas every year at the State Fair? Destroying one of the greatest college football rivalries of the past century?

I submit that you, sir, are a moron.

The only way I'd go for re-alignment of the Big XII is if it ensures we play both Texas AND Nebraska every freakin' year during the regular season.

[poke4christ]

Easy solution. Just remove the divisions and have certain teams play 2 teams every year. This may need some work, but this would be my guess. Baylor wouldn't like this as they wouldn't play any Texas teams, but they just aren't involved in any major south rivalry.

OSU: OU and Tech
OU: OSU and Texas
UT: OU and A&M
A&M: UT and Tech
Tech: OSU and A&M
Baylor: ISU and CU
Nebraska: CU and KSU
Mizzou: KU and ISU
ISU: Baylor and Mizzou
KSU: KU and Neb
KU: KSU and Mizzou
CU: Neb and Baylor

[Half a Hundred]

Half a hundred:

Please explain tOSU, Michigan, and Penn St. if no one wants to play in 15 degree weather at the end of the year anymore. Also, ND seems to get it's fair share of recruits, and South Bend, IN isn't balmy in November.

They have the benefit of most of their recruits already being from that region. It's very hard for Big 12 teams to recruit that area well. Keith Nichol was the exception, not the rule.

Notre Dame's recruiting advantages should be obvious.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Why don't they just take the top 2 teams, period; you could still crown a North and South champ, but if the 2 best records are in the same division, then they play for the championship; i do realize that with the schedules that some teams do have it easier in certain years, but that's the only negative i see here

[SicEmBaylor]

Why not just make a new conference. Drop ISU, BU, osu, tx am. get rid of the conference title game.

WIN WIN WIN.... drop the weak links and move on..

Oh God, here we go...I'm surprised it took 14 posts to see this crap come up.

[SicEmBaylor]

West: Colorado, Texas, Tech, aTm, KU, K-State
East: OU, Poke State, Nebraska, Mizzou, Iowa State, Baylor

Rivalries: NU-CU, OU-Texas, KU-Mizzou, ISU-K-State, aTm-Baylor, Tech-Poke State

This also allows for very compelling Big 12 championship games, as who wouldn't want to see a rematch between any of these rivalry teams for all the marbles?

Here's (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&ll=32.23139,-99.865723&spn=13.159095,19.775391&z=6&msid=118405091755845263722.00045a7cdc87f5484306e) a map version of the realignment

This breakup makes more sense to me than the author's version.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

So you're OK with not having OU/Texas every year at the State Fair? Destroying one of the greatest college football rivalries of the past century?

I submit that you, sir, are a moron.

The only way I'd go for re-alignment of the Big XII is if it ensures we play both Texas AND Nebraska every freakin' year during the regular season.Well then, we totally disagree. I call you a moron. We're even, now.

[yermom]

this really shouldn't surprise me

the only experience that eclipses Texas in the Cotton Bowl is the MNC game. i have to assume anyone that doesn't appreciate it hasn't been there

and we get it every year

[Collier11]

Id rather play Nebraska every yr and osu every two yrs...Nebraska even when they are bad is a more meaningful game to me

[josh09]

We would totally dominate the Big 12 East hahaha

[jkjsooner]

Why not. we play 12 now plus a conf champ game maybe. So just do away with the champ game and everyone play 13 and each other. Tie breaker will be rank. If a school only wanted to play 12 so be it

Only two OOC games? Sorry but that is boring as heck.

Also, you can't just play 13 games. The NCAA doesn't allow it. They had to make an exception to allow conference championship games to be played. They're not going to roll over and allow every team to play 13 games.

The north/south alignment makes too much sense. It has created a lot more excitement for OU fans.

When the Big 12 was formed the question was whether the south could ever compete with the north. The best three teams in the conference were NU, KSU, and CU.

These things cycle. It makes no sense to constantly realign because of the current status.

We're building tradition in the Big 12. If we want to ruin the conference then start messing with the tradition.

[Half a Hundred]

Only two OOC games? Sorry but that is boring as heck.

Also, you can't just play 13 games. The NCAA doesn't allow it. They had to make an exception to allow conference championship games to be played. They're not going to roll over and allow every team to play 13 games.

The north/south alignment makes too much sense. It has created a lot more excitement for OU fans.

When the Big 12 was formed the question was whether the south could ever compete with the north. The best three teams in the conference were NU, KSU, and CU.

These things cycle. It makes no sense to constantly realign because of the current status.

We're building tradition in the Big 12. If we want to ruin the conference then start messing with the tradition.

That's the thing, we don't want it to constantly cycle between the two divisions. We want there to consistently be at least a few very good teams in both divisions in any given year. The Big 12, as currently set up, does not provide for this.

[yermom]

last year there was KU and Mizzou fighting over the other BCS spot, i don't really see the problem

CU and Nebraska are likely going to be good again eventually as well

but what does it matter? Baylor gets kicked around every year and they are in the South. how does changing divisions even out the money?

[tbl]

if we realigned, Texas or Nebraska would need to be in our division
Indeed....

This is the way it should be:
Oklahoma
Texas
Oklahoma State
Nebraska
Texas aTm
Kansas State


Texas Tech
Baylor
Missouri
Colorado
Kansas
Iowa State

[crawfish]

EXACTLY!!!

and o-state

No way. We move them to the opposite division and they only sell out a home game once every four years.

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

[Half a Hundred]

last year there was KU and Mizzou fighting over the other BCS spot, i don't really see the problem

CU and Nebraska are likely going to be good again eventually as well

but what does it matter? Baylor gets kicked around every year and they are in the South. how does changing divisions even out the money?

Last year was an anomaly, as we've seen from things shaking out again this season (with supposedly "great" North teams). The South has structural advantages that will lead to a season like this one being more the norm (though not with such high level of play from the good southern teams) than otherwise.

CU will be good again given Boulder and proximity to Denver. I just don't see it for Nebraska, as this current generation would have been the one that desperately wanted to go to NU, having watched all those great '90s teams. Once the memory of those teams start to fade, the tradition argument begins to lose steam.

[RFH Shakes]

I fail to see what this would accomplish. What does it matter which division wins the conference? It would still be the same teams competing for it.

[yermom]

yeah, so we play Texas or Tech in the Big 12 championship every year, and CU and Nebraska still sit at home

[sidneyfikx]

This is a great thread. I am just surprised with all this talk about switching divisions no one has brought up the 300 pound gorilla in the room. The big ten wants to expand, the conference and their new television network. Notre Dame, their first pick, recently signed another contract extension with NBC through 2015.

My understanding is they may expand to 12 or 14 teams, but in any event, Nebraska and Missouri are big time candidates. If one or both leave the big 12 for the big 10, I wonder where that leaves the big 12 and the respective divisions.

[JLEW1818]

Make them have a conference championship

[sidneyfikx]

Make them have a conference championship

That is what the big 10 wants to do. It will make them more competitive for the national title and definitely increase their revenues if their own network is providing the coverage. Where does that leave the big 12? What if Nebraska and/or Missouri leave?

[JLEW1818]

Where would Neb and Missouri go to?

[sidneyfikx]

The big ten. They are on the short list of candidates for expansion.

[yermom]

TCU is still whining about not getting in, i'd imagine Colorado State wouldn't be too hard to get into the conference with their CU rivalry

Tulsa seems to like switching conferences...

losing Nebraska would suck

losing Mizzou or Iowa State wouldn't be so bad...

the Big 10 only needs one though

[Half a Hundred]

yeah, so we play Texas or Tech in the Big 12 championship every year, and CU and Nebraska still sit at home

Then again, we'll eventually go into a bit of a down period, and a big name takes up the slack, giving us two big names in the championship.

As it stands right now, except in those transition periods, it's a big dog beating up on the lord of the scrubs.

[JLEW1818]

what are the honest percentages of this happening , I'm curious?

[sidneyfikx]

Yeah, I suppose TCU may want in. CSU also seems like they would too. Neither seems like a great upgrade though. Tulsa is too small to play in a big conference.

How many the big ten needs is going to depend on what they decide to do. If they decided to go to 14, an idea that has been given serious consideration, they could take both. I don't know. I just have to think the big 12 is seeing this coming, but you rarely hear anyone talking about it.

In any event, their could be a lot more going on than realigning divisions if they were to take more than one. I mean, imagine a scenario where both go and either ISU goes too, or they take a Rutgers, or Syracuse to get into that NY/NJ television market too. What would be left. At that point I think you have to start over with the big 12.

[JLEW1818]

What the hell is the pac 10 gona do? those bastards

[sidneyfikx]

what are the honest percentages of this happening , I'm curious?

I am not sure. What I do know is that Jim Delany, the god father of college football, has strongly suggested he is interested in expanding the big 10. He wants the championship game because there is a concern in the big 10 that they are going to get hosed, as they should, by teams in the big 12 and SEC.

Moreover, he wants to expand the big ten network, that is his baby, and it is not an accident that he hired the old commissioner of the big 12 to run it. He wants a man with connections and relations in the big 12 when the time comes. The big ten network now has about 30 percent of the US television market and if they went to 12 the could up that by as much as 10 percent if they add the right team. If they then added a conference championship game, that they have the exclusive rights to broadcast, they would be rolling in money.

So percentages, I dunno exactly. What I do know is money drives this thing and the big ten stands to make a lot of it if they add the right teams. It is so interesting this year because with all these great one loss teams Penn St. may get hosed and I think that along with the reality that ND signed another deal with NBC through 2015 will speed up this process,

[sidneyfikx]

What the hell is the pac 10 gona do? those bastards

lol

[SicEmBaylor]

What exactly is TCU going to contribute besides a marginally decent football program?

I have never and will never understand why TCU deserves to be in the Big XII. I've said before, there are better fits for this conference than Baylor but the alternative is most certainly not TCU.

Have you guys ever met a TCU fan? Good god...

[JLEW1818]

What exactly is TCU going to contribute besides a marginally decent football program?

I have never and will never understand why TCU deserves to be in the Big XII. I've said before, there are better fits for this conference than Baylor but the alternative is most certainly not TCU.

Have you guys ever met a TCU fan? Good god...

more Christians ! haha

[sidneyfikx]

What exactly is TCU going to contribute besides a marginally decent football program?

I have never and will never understand why TCU deserves to be in the Big XII. I've said before, there are better fits for this conference than Baylor but the alternative is most certainly not TCU.

Have you guys ever met a TCU fan? Good god...

Well, I am not advocating TCU for the big 12, but the bottom line is they are better than at least 2 of the teams in the conference. Moreover, they are in a better market than two or more of the teams in the conference. But at the end of the day, if one, two, or three teams from the big 12 bail, TCU is going to be the least of the conference's worries.

[sidneyfikx]

To further my point I think it is helpful to look at some more numbers. In 07, the big 12 split 102 million dollars of revenue, the SEC split 122 million and the big 10 split 177 million.

With the addition of Nebraska or Missouri or both, that would add at least 12 more football games, and 20 or so basketball games, and one or more tv markets. With the addition of a championship game, there is just no question that Nebraska and/or Missouri would stand to gain substantial money by moving over. It really is only a matter of time.