What is it going to take for the NCAA

[8timechamps]

To have a D1 playoff?

Serious question. I just can't understand the reasoning. There cannot be a financial gain by doing it this way. So, unless someone has candid pctures of someone else, I just can't understand why the NCAA has not done something.

[nBoSTP]

I think I heard just today that the NCAA plans to look into a playoff right after they conclude their investigation of the USC football program.

[Leroy Lizard]

To have a D1 playoff?

Serious question. I just can't understand the reasoning. There cannot be a financial gain by doing it this way.

You bet there is.


So, unless someone has candid pctures of someone else, I just can't understand why the NCAA has not done something.

Okay, every year we go through this. If I am an NCAA official, you would have a hard time convincing me to institute a playoff. What would be your argument? That you cannot enjoy college football because it doesn't "settle it on the field?" You sure seemed to be enjoying yourself last Saturday at the game.

"That teams in other sports have a true playoff?" Who cares? The last time I looked, the one sport at your university that doesn't "settle it on the field" was the only sport that made a dime in profit. How do you explain that?

"There is no true national champion." So what? I see no reason to have a declared true champion. If Alabama wants to think they are the best at the end of the year (and they almost certainly will), let 'em.

"The bowl games are ruining college football." The bowl games provide fans with plenty of festivities and fun when they visit for the game. In turn, the fans gladly play for lots of good things like hotels, food, and sight-seeing. The teams get financially rewarded for their participation. And as an NCAA official, I don't have to worry about running it. Sounds like everyone benefits.

So if I was an NCAA official, how would you convince me?

Frankly, I think a playoff would simply turn college football into a mini-NFL. And with that players will be demanding to be paid (and that point, why shouldn't they?). And if the players are paid, the NCAA faces trouble with the IRS over its non-profit status.

[RedstickSooner]

It's not up to the NCAA. Not even remotely.

[Partial Qualifier]

All the excuses the power-that-be have come up with are bogus -- it's one of the most frustrating situations, ever

[Sooner04]

"That teams in other sports have a true playoff?" Who cares? The last time I looked, the one sport at your university that doesn't "settle it on the field" was the only sport that made a dime in profit. How do you explain that?
Men's basketball makes a profit here at OU.

[swardboy]

Some bowls would take a huge hit because fans would have to choose between a "playoff game" or the "championship" game as far as travel preparations/expenses. I'd say that's where the money/opposition trail goes.

[OKC Sooner]

I think I heard just today that the NCAA plans to look into a playoff right after they conclude their investigation of the USC football program.

http://kennedy-funding.com/HellFreezingOver.jpg

[colinreturn]

its simple. more controversy causes more fan interest causes more money

[JLEW1818]

1 vs 119
2 vs 118
3 vs 117

and so on....


ha

[ouwasp]

The college presidents seem to be perpetually and solidly against a playoff.

I believe they think this would be bowing to sports too much.

Sure, its hypocritical, but that wouldn't be anything new.

[PDXsooner]

the payout between the title game and the rest of the BCS bowls is minimal, so when a team gets "screwed" out of the championship due to a lack of playoff, they don't really get screwed financially because they still get a massive BCS payout.

so, really the rich are continuing to get rich -- as far as the athletic directors and presidents are concerned, what's really the incentive for a playoff?

[poke4christ]

You bet there is.

I totally disagree. Though the bowls would become the equivalent of the NAIA (something I'm not too broken up about) The games involved in a 16 team playoff would EASILY out gain the amount of money that is being brought in now. We're talking 15 games with every one of them being a game of top ranked teams battling it out for the National title. I love football, but right now the NCAA tourney EASILY bests the bowls as the best college postseason. That would change with a playoff. We'd see it not only surpass college basketball, but I think the National Title game would actually start to make headway on the superbowl. Right now, it just doesn't have anywhere near the same build up.

I don't get why they hold on to this. There's a lot to be said about tradition, but when it's something that holds you back it's not tradition. It's stupidity.

[poke4christ]

Some bowls would take a huge hit because fans would have to choose between a "playoff game" or the "championship" game as far as travel preparations/expenses. I'd say that's where the money/opposition trail goes.

Which is why for anything over a four team playoff you would simply have to make it a home and away situation. I know it would suck, but you just couldn't expect the fans to travel to several games throughout a playoff.

To do it you would have to totally kiss the bowls goodbye and I think that is the primary motivation for not doing it. The bowl committees are lobbying to stay too. They know that once that snowball gets rolling there's no stopping it.

[JLEW1818]

Shorten regular season?

[WA. Sooner]

Put the BCS formula back to how it used to be and just do a +1. Other than that, I'm not in favor of a full blown playoff. Just win all your games and you are set.

[Frozen Sooner]

Some bowls would take a huge hit because fans would have to choose between a "playoff game" or the "championship" game as far as travel preparations/expenses. I'd say that's where the money/opposition trail goes.

Yup.

Beyond that, D1 Bowl Subdivision does have a playoff. Just a very short one.

[RedstickSooner]

It's kinda weird that this argument keeps coming up.

Okay, to recap, here's the basic forces which keep a playoff from happening:

1) The power to choose whether to adopt a playoff rests with schools themselves -- university presidents.

2) Those presidents are interested in what's best for their school.

3) Home games, and to a lesser extent, bowl games bring in money to the school. However...

3a) It's really home games that bring the money to the school *at large*, because it's home games which bring back alumni, and which really stroke their interest in the university.

4) Alumni aren't gonna wander around campus, or cut a check to donate for something, because they see their alma mater in a playoff bracket.

5) Anything which diminishes the regular season's importance, or interest in regular season games, threatens university interests.

6) Home games, for major programs, are sold out or nearly so. So, in spite of all the bellyaching about the lack of a playoff, fans continue to show up and watch.

Six is the most important issue. If you really, truly, desperately want a playoff, you'll have to make some kinda sacrifice -- like cancelling your season tickets, and boycotting home games (and sending a note to the university explaining why). Not just you, but a ton of other fans. It'd take a movement like that for real change to be accomplished. Otherwise, you're complaining, but still supporting the university. So why should they listen to you?

It'd be a bit like buying crack from someone, and telling them they should quit selling it. If you keep buying, they'll keep selling.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I think it'll be after we bitch enough on the boards...

:D

[RedstickSooner]

I think it'll be after we bitch enough on the boards...

:D

Mebbe so, Crucifax... Mebbe so :)

[OU_Sooners75]

I think I heard just today that the NCAA plans to look into a playoff right after they conclude their investigation of the USC football program.

Well, that will take awhile.

Throw that idea out the window. :)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now about the original post...

What it will take is a overwhelming majority of D-1A presidents, league commissioners, and coaches to openly back a playoff system. Remember, though the NCAA is the athletic governing body, it is a cooperative between all member schools and institutions.

And yes, the corporate sponsorship of the current system is HUGE.

However, if they do it right, they can keep the bowl games and have a playoff as well. Meaning the greedy NCAA would make even more money.

While on subject of the NCAA....I think the NCAA should pay, in small amounts, a monthy paycheck to EVERY STUDENT-ATHLETE since the NCAA is profitting off the work and competition of those student-athletes.

[stoopified]

I think I heard just today that the NCAA plans to look into a playoff right after they conclude their investigation of the USC football program.So in other words-NEVER.

[Lott's Bandana]

One word: Big-10 Commissioner

Ok, that's 3 words.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

9 words 3 periods

I am pleased with it the way it is...

[soonerpike697]

To have a D1 playoff?

Serious question. I just can't understand the reasoning. There cannot be a financial gain by doing it this way. So, unless someone has candid pctures of someone else, I just can't understand why the NCAA has not done something.

Well they have to wait til the BCS contract is done right? I guess they feel financially it's not worth it to spend on the bailout...

[8timechamps]

You bet there is.

Really? How?

In a proposal I've seen (from a writer at the Sporting News), the existing bowl structure would remain in tact. The only change would be a "bracket" of 8 - 10 teams that would utilize the current BCS bowls and add a few additional (Cotton, Gator, etc.) to round out the brackets.

How does that in any way change the revenue? If you are trying to convince me that the 8 to 10 teams that made the final playoff wouldn't be able to sellout it's allotment of tickets, I'd say that's a pretty weak argument.





Okay, every year we go through this. If I am an NCAA official, you would have a hard time convincing me to institute a playoff. What would be your argument? That you cannot enjoy college football because it doesn't "settle it on the field?" You sure seemed to be enjoying yourself last Saturday at the game.

Hmmm. Because I enjoy college football in it's current format, I'd neverbe able to enjoy it more if a playoff system were inacted?! Is that really an argument?




"That teams in other sports have a true playoff?" Who cares? The last time I looked, the one sport at your university that doesn't "settle it on the field" was the only sport that made a dime in profit. How do you explain that?

I don't know where you get your information. Not only does OU make a profit on basketball, many, many other D-1 schools do too. I'm sure Duke and North Carolina depend on their football teams for revenue.




"There is no true national champion." So what? I see no reason to have a declared true champion. If Alabama wants to think they are the best at the end of the year (and they almost certainly will), let 'em.

This is actually a decent argument. But not enough to keep a playoff system out of D-1 football.



"The bowl games are ruining college football." The bowl games provide fans with plenty of festivities and fun when they visit for the game. In turn, the fans gladly play for lots of good things like hotels, food, and sight-seeing. The teams get financially rewarded for their participation. And as an NCAA official, I don't have to worry about running it. Sounds like everyone benefits.


I love the bowl games. Always have. As I said, in the proposed playoff structure I agree with, the bowl games would be integrated into the system. Who cares if the 500 other bowl games don't mean anything...do they now anyway? Nothing would change from that standpoint.


So if I was an NCAA official, how would you convince me?

Take Tulsa for example. How can you tell Tulsa that finishing a perfect season (should it happen) should preclude them from a million dollar payday because the system is set so that the major conferences get first dibs? If (as you say) so much of their revenue comes from it's football program, why can't they get a shot at a payday? Nobody in their right mind can say that the system is not broken.



Frankly, I think a playoff would simply turn college football into a mini-NFL. And with that players will be demanding to be paid (and that point, why shouldn't they?). And if the players are paid, the NCAA faces trouble with the IRS over its non-profit status.

Why hasn't NCAA basketball become a mini-NBA? Why is march one of (if not) the best times of the year for college basketball fans?

As a fan, I want more. Afterall, isn't that why universities field college football teams for...the fans? Because the last time I checked, Cameron didn't have a football team anymore because the fans didn't come.

[poke4christ]

I will never have respect for any system in which it is impossible for a team to win their own leagues title. That is the BCS as it stands right now. For around 50 percent of the teams it is literally impossible for them to win a title. They can go undefeated, but it won't matter. Their skill has already been judged. That is why a playoff is necessary.

[RedstickSooner]

However, if they do it right, they can keep the bowl games and have a playoff as well. Meaning the greedy NCAA would make even more money.

While on subject of the NCAA....I think the NCAA should pay, in small amounts, a monthy paycheck to EVERY STUDENT-ATHLETE since the NCAA is profitting off the work and competition of those student-athletes.

Huh?

Dude -- the NCAA would LOVE if there was a D-1 football playoff, like there is for basketball. The basketball tournament is how the NCAA makes almost all of its money -- 1-A football gives almost nothing to the NCAA. It isn't up to the NCAA whether we have a playoff, it's up to the universities, and as I said before, the universities don't want it. They want alumni on campus for 7 or 8 games every season, and for that to happen, those games have to be *crucial*, as they are under the current system.

When you can lose a game or two or, hell, maybe three if it's a tournament like basketball has, those alumni are going to focus on going to playoff games. Not regular season games. And considering that most major programs are selling out most of their home games, there is *clearly* no impetus for them to change anything.

Quite the contrary.

Like I said, it'll never happen, because the only way for it to happen would be for alumni to force the issue by boycotting games. And people would never organize like that. Not today, not when they knew that if they failed in their effort, they'd probably lose their season tickets to the folks who didn't join up for the boycott.

[Leroy Lizard]

Really? How?

In a proposal I've seen (from a writer at the Sporting News), the existing bowl structure would remain in tact. The only change would be a "bracket" of 8 - 10 teams that would utilize the current BCS bowls and add a few additional (Cotton, Gator, etc.) to round out the brackets.

I am not sure I am reading your post right. A bowl game that is a round of a playoff game is not a bowl game.

Bowl games are finales. They are meant as rewards for teams, not to advance teams to another round. They involve weeks of tourism buildup. Just because a playoff game is played in the Orange Bowl does not make it a bowl game.

I apologize if I misunderstood.


How does that in any way change the revenue? If you are trying to convince me that the 8 to 10 teams that made the final playoff wouldn't be able to sellout it's allotment of tickets, I'd say that's a pretty weak argument.

And what about the lost revenue given to teams from host cities? That is a huge ton of money and it depends on having plenty of preparation time. If a playoff/bowl game is going to appear within only one or two weeks after the regular season is over, you can kiss that money goodbye.




Hmmm. Because I enjoy college football in it's current format, I'd neverbe able to enjoy it more if a playoff system were inacted?! Is that really an argument?

You paid the money for the ticket. You had a good time. Ergo, I see nothing broken that needs fixing.


I don't know where you get your information. Not only does OU make a profit on basketball, many, many other D-1 schools do too. I'm sure Duke and North Carolina depend on their football teams for revenue.

I wasn't referring specifically to OU, but let's consider OU. What has the regular-season attendance been like for OU in basketball? Any empty seats?

Anyone really willing to say that college basketball makes more money than college football? How can that be, if college basketball has it right and college football has it wrong?


I love the bowl games. Always have. As I said, in the proposed playoff structure I agree with, the bowl games would be integrated into the system.

Well, the bowls must be "bowling" themselves over to support a playoff... oh, wait. They don't want a playoff.

And you know why? Because they are not dumb. They know damn well that if a playoff comes in, they will die.


Who cares if the 500 other bowl games don't mean anything...do they now anyway?

Actually, they do. The winner of the bowl game is a true bowl champion. Make them consolation games and all luster will disappear completely.

Take the NFL. Host some games between the teams that didn't make it into the playoff and see if anyone shows up. Look at the NIT in basketball. Once the NCAA tournament began, the NIT completely lost respect. It has only managed to survive because basketball games are far cheaper to host than football.

If a playoff arrives, the bowls will die. The bowls know it, and nothing you say will convince them otherwise.



Take Tulsa for example. How can you tell Tulsa that finishing a perfect season (should it happen) should preclude them from a million dollar payday because the system is set so that the major conferences get first dibs? If (as you say) so much of their revenue comes from it's football program, why can't they get a shot at a payday? Nobody in their right mind can say that the system is not broken.

If I was the Tulsa president I would oppose a playoff. With the system in place now, Tulsa has a decent chance of making it into a BCS bowl game and receiving a ton of money. To have a fantastic year, all they have to do in the postseason is win one game. With a playoff, Tulsa would likely get bumped in the first round if it even managed to make it to the playoffs. There is zilch glory in that and even less money.

Of course, you could devise a system that would give Tulsa a better chance of making it into the playoff each year. But to do that, you have to screw other teams, such as the powerhouses that play far more difficult conference schedules.



Why hasn't NCAA basketball become a mini-NBA? Why is march one of (if not) the best times of the year for college basketball fans?

Let's see... college basketball greed got so out of control that they were even playing some games past midnight on school nights just to make tv money. And college basketball has the lowest graduation rate of any sport. And the sport still makes far less money than football despite the fact that college basketball costs far less to participate. Great success story, there.

By the way, March is a great month for college basketball fans. Of course, they don't even bother to watch any of the regular season games. Not sure that is the system I want.


As a fan, I want more. Afterall, isn't that why universities field college football teams for...the fans?

As an NCAA official, I am under no obligation to give you what you want. College football doesn't exist for the fans as far as the NCAA is concerned. College football is an avocation for certain athletes that provides them in turn with educational opportunities. THAT is the purpose of college football.

Now, if you want the ME generation to dictate the true purpose of college football, then I would suggest we pay the players and no longer make them go to school. Let's cut the baloney and make college football a semi-pro endeavor, if that is what will provide the most entertainment for the fans.

Again, you seem to already enjoy college football. You should learn to appreciate what you already have, rather than be disgruntled over what you think it could be. Too many times we end up "getting what we asked for" and regretting it.

I bet you post more in the football forum than the basketball forum. I certainly do. I like college basketball but I love college football. Sounds like college football is doing a-ok. Why take a chance on ruining it for such little gains?

[Leroy Lizard]

It isn't up to the NCAA whether we have a playoff, it's up to the universities, and as I said before, the universities don't want it.

Actually, if the NCAA did really want a tournament they could just install one and invite teams to play. The bowl games would be left holding the bag. And that is precisely what the NCAA did to the NIT. The NCAA simply scheduled basketball games on the same days as the NIT games and after a while no teams worth spit showed up for NIT tournaments. Now no one cares about the NIT anymore. The same fate would happen to the bowl games, except you have to have far more fan interest to make a football game profitable.

Those that think a bowl system would survive a playoff system should read up on the NCAA's ***-raping of the NIT. Ugly stuff.

[Leroy Lizard]

For around 50 percent of the teams it is literally impossible for them to win a title.

Actually, just about every team in the country can become a bowl champion. That's what Akron plays for, not the national title. Akron has almost no chance of ever winning a national title, and without any bowl games it has essentially nothing to play for.

[OU_Sooners75]

Huh?

Dude -- the NCAA would LOVE if there was a D-1 football playoff, like there is for basketball. The basketball tournament is how the NCAA makes almost all of its money -- 1-A football gives almost nothing to the NCAA. It isn't up to the NCAA whether we have a playoff, it's up to the universities, and as I said before, the universities don't want it. They want alumni on campus for 7 or 8 games every season, and for that to happen, those games have to be *crucial*, as they are under the current system.

When you can lose a game or two or, hell, maybe three if it's a tournament like basketball has, those alumni are going to focus on going to playoff games. Not regular season games. And considering that most major programs are selling out most of their home games, there is *clearly* no impetus for them to change anything.

Quite the contrary.

Like I said, it'll never happen, because the only way for it to happen would be for alumni to force the issue by boycotting games. And people would never organize like that. Not today, not when they knew that if they failed in their effort, they'd probably lose their season tickets to the folks who didn't join up for the boycott.

Huhhhhhh...You do know the NCAA is the one that can change this, right? The NCAA oversees the bowls and creates the rules for eligible teams. The only thing they do not do is select the teams to play in each bowl game beyond the BCS NCG!

Before too long the bowl season will just be another regular season game because every team will be attending one.

And Miles Brand, in case you do not know who he is, the President of the NCAA is in favor of the BOWLS, not a playoff.

[FaninAma]

9 words 3 periods

I am pleased with it the way it is...

Yeah, I'm ecstatic that the winner of the weak-assed Big Ten gets to play in the championship game every year.

It really adds to the importance of the regular season.

[soonerpike697]

Yeah, I'm ecstatic that the winner of the weak-assed Big Ten gets to play in the championship game every year.

It really adds to the importance of the regular season.

I know I'm sick of these week Big Ten teams getting slaughtered and it's going to happen again this year...