Dear Mr. Corso...

[OUTromBoNado]

I listened to you today on The Jim Rome Show. Obviously, my first mistake was actually listening to you. However, in the course of the interview, you made a statement that almost made me run my car off the road in disbelief.

Please explain to me why in the name of God's green Earth that you think USC should be ranked ahead of OU. Since they haven't played each other, the best way to compare these teams would be by comparing their opponents and their respective performances against said opponents. So far, the combined records of USC's opponents is 30-25 compared to OU's 34-29. A lot of that is due to some weak non-conference schedule of OU and the weak PAC-10 schedule of USC.

At this point, OU has played 4 ranked teams, including two Top 20 teams, and one Top 10 team that currently is undefeated and ranked #1 in all polls. OU still has two ranked opponents left, both of those currently ranked in the Top 10 who also happen to be conference opponents. OU clearly plays in the toughest division in Division I.

USC has currently played two ranked teams. One of those was #5 at game time, and is currently ranked #13. At this time, USC has NO more ranked teams on it's schedule.

Now, let's examine their losses. USC lost on the road, by 7 points, to an unranked team. Oregon State is 4-3, has played three ranked foes, and only beaten one of them. Oklahoma has one loss, on a neutral field, by 10 points, to the then-#5 ranked Longhorns. Texas is currently undefeated and ranked #1 in all polls.

Based on this, I fail to see how USC should be ranked ahead of OU. Maybe it's because they beat a Top 10 team. However, it's clear that Ohio State does not deserve that high of a ranking.

Are you arguing that USC should be ranked higher than OU based on that you think USC is a better team with better talent and would beat OU were they to play each other? I could definitely see your argument there.

However, if that's the case, you also stated that Penn State was the best "all-around, complete" team on offense, defense, and special teams in the country, yet you don't think they can win against "any of the top teams in the national title game."

Mr. Corso, you made no sense. Your analysis is flawed.


Sincerely,
OUTromBoNado

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Corso or anything he says doesn't bother me any more seeing as he is purely on tv for entertainment value..nothing more...If I felt like he was on TV to offer a valid opinion on football, then it would be different.

To me he is the equivolent to when Dennis Miller was on MNF....just there to be the village idiot...

I m sure ESPN gets 4 to 1 (at least) emails, letters, from OU fans complaining about Corso and his opinions..thus OU fans will get those kinda remarks from him..so that they keep listening and watching him

[badger]

Dear USC,

We hate you forever and into all eternity.

[humblesooner]

Actually listening to Corso was your second mistake.
Listening to Rome's drivel was your first.

[Collier11]

The reason Corso is picking USC is cus he picked them preseason to win it all, he has said that the last several weeks

[JLEW1818]

oh I thought he picked Missouri? Maybe he picked USC over Missouri.

[PDXsooner]

the best way to compare these teams would be by comparing their opponents and their respective performances against said opponents.

i'll play devil's advocate just for fun. outside of two quarters against oregon state, USC has held their opponents to 36 points in 26 quarters!!!

removing the oregon state game (in which they gave up 27 points), teams are averaging 5.0 PPG against USC.

i hate USC, but i'd take them with that defense against just about anyone in the country right now.

[OUTromBoNado]

Actually listening to Corso was your second mistake.
Listening to Rome's drivel was your first.

Unfortunately, the only sports radio available to me in the TX Panhandle is a local ESPN radio affiliate that airs Rome's show in its entirety.

[BoulderSooner79]

BCS rankings are weird because there is no clear cut definition of what it is supposed to be measuring. The arguments come from trying to say who is better, but the rankings usually come down to who is more deserving (i.e. accomplishments, not who is better). I'd say beating TCU, Cincy, and Kansas adds up to more than beating tOSU, Oregon, and Arizona - but not by a lot. On the flip side, losing to Oregon state is a much bigger blow than losing to UT, so over-all, I'd say OU is more deserving of a higher ranking. But in the end, only #1 & #2 mean anything and neither team deserves that. If OU wins out, they definitely will deserve a higher ranking because USC does not have any team like TT or OSU left to play. But there are 2 edges to that sword...

[TXBOOMER]

corso is turning into a shock jock. not sure we could beat suc with our d right now, but we deserve to be ranked ahead of them based on schedule strength and quality of the loss. sorry mofo's you lose to the beavers you should be fuqing done.

[jwlynn64]

i'll play devil's advocate just for fun. outside of two quarters against oregon state, USC has held their opponents to 36 points in 26 quarters!!!

removing the oregon state game (in which they gave up 27 points), teams are averaging 5.0 PPG against USC.

i hate USC, but i'd take them with that defense against just about anyone in the country right now.

How many high powered offenses has USC played? Without looking it up, I'll say 0. Good Analysis. :rolleyes:

[Dan Thompson]

I saw USC 1st 10 on the 22 againist Arizona, and they couldn't get a score & missed a FG.

The only thing I see that USC has are big and fast LBs that commit a lot of fouls and make a lot of hits.

ABC owns ESPN and ABC has a contract for all the USC home games until 2010 or 2012. Talking up USC is like getting people interested in the games, which show TV ads, which brings in money for ABC. It's all about the money, just like Wall Street.

Similar to the BCS, if it was fair there would be checks and balances with someone to answer to.

[BoulderSooner79]

I agree USC has an excellent defense and probably the most talent on defense in the country. But the ranking is about the total team, not just defense. USC has only scored big points on lousy teams. The exception was tOSU, but they were playing like a mediocre team at the time. They were held to 21 by Oregon state and 17 by Az. Their offense makes mistakes when pressured.

Our lowest output is 35pts against 2 highly ranked defenses and we could have easily scored 50 on TCU, but chose not to.

[badger]

How many high powered offenses has USC played?

Ohio State is a perennial college program with a high powered offense.

:O
...
..
.
:)
...
..
.
:D Sorry, but I just can't type that with a straight face without cracking up :D

[TopDawg]

How many high powered offenses has USC played? Without looking it up, I'll say 0. Good Analysis. :rolleyes:

Let's look it up.

Here's a list of the "D-1" teams USC has played. The first number is their score against USC, the second number is their average points per game against other opponents:

Virginia 7; 19.3
Ohio State 3; 27.3
Oregon State 27; 35.8
Oregon 10; 46
Arizona State 0; 22.5
Washington State 0; 15.9
Arizona 10; 40.4

USC is averaging 8.1 PPG allowed to teams that are averaging about 30 PPG in their other games. So USC's opponents score about 75% less against USC than they do against everybody else.

Here's the same list for OU:

Cincinnati 26; 27.3
Washington 14; 16.5
TCU 10; 39
Baylor 17; 31
Texas 45; 45.7
Kansas 31; 32.4
Kansas State 35; 39

OU is averaging 25.4 PPG allowed to teams that are averaging about 33 PPG in their other games. So OU's opponents score about 25% less against OU than they do against everybody else.

A lot of those PPG averages (for both USC and OU opponents) have been inflated by inferior opponents. But that difference is still pretty big. USC keeps their opponents operating about 25% capacity whereas OU's opponents operate at about 75%. That's significant.

[TUSooner]

Actually listening to Corso was your second mistake.
Listening to Rome's drivel was your first.

Hear him!

:D

[Salt City Sooner]

How many high powered offenses has USC played? Without looking it up, I'll say 0. Good Analysis. :rolleyes:
I DID look it up. Oregon is the only team with a good offense that USC has beaten (ranked #10 in total offense). The problem there is the fact that the Ducks had to play that game with their 3rd string QB due to injuries to the top 2. Other than that, the highest ranked offense that USC has played is Arizona at #47. Others:

Virginia- #97

tOSU- #95

Arizona St.- #82

Wazzu- #115

Some real offensive stawarts there. FWIW, the only good offense that USC played at full strength (Oregon St.), is #23.

[PDXsooner]

topdawg - nice research...it pretty much proves the point -- USC has a damn good defense.

[PDXsooner]

the only good offense that USC played at full strength (Oregon St.), is #23.

straight up - how in the hell do you know this? do you know who was injured on the offenses of all of USC's and OU's opponent's offenses? i'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you probably don't really know.

also, didn't we play Cincy with their 3rd string QB?

[TopDawg]

I DID look it up. Oregon is the only team with a good offense that USC has beaten (ranked #10 in total offense). The problem there is the fact that the Ducks had to play that game with their 3rd string QB due to injuries to the top 2. Other than that, the highest ranked offense that USC has played is Arizona at #47. Others:

Virginia- #97

tOSU- #95

Arizona St.- #82

Wazzu- #115

Some real offensive stawarts there. FWIW, the only good offense that USC played at full strength (Oregon St.), is #23.

The difference between Arizona State at #82 and TCU at #34 is about 65 yards per game. That's not much. Part of the problem with ONLY looking at USC's opponents' rankings versus our opponents' rankings is that it doesn't account for the fact that part of the reason Arizona State is so far down is because USC held them to 229 total yards.

In the meantime, part of the reason KSU and Kansas, for instance, are ranked higher is because they actually padded their stats against us. KSU is averaging 431.1 YPG and had 550 against us, KU averages 456.3 and had 491 against us.

In other words, part of the reason some of USC's opponents are ranked so low is because they've played USC.

[Ice Cold Peanuts]

Dear Mr. Corso,
Please put on a Sooner hat when discussing the OU/NU game this weekend. We can use all of the help we can get. Go Huskers

[BoulderSooner79]

Let's look it up.

Here's a list of the "D-1" teams USC has played. The first number is their score against USC, the second number is their average points per game against other opponents:

Virginia 7; 19.3
Ohio State 3; 27.3
Oregon State 21; 35.8
Oregon 10; 46
Arizona State 0; 22.5
Washington State 0; 15.9
Arizona 10; 40.4

USC is averaging 7.3 PPG allowed to teams that are averaging about 30 PPG in their other games. So USC's opponents score about 75% less against USC than they do against everybody else.

Here's the same list for OU:

Cincinnati 26; 27.3
Washington 14; 16.5
TCU 10; 39
Baylor 17; 31
Texas 45; 45.7
Kansas 31; 32.4
Kansas State 35; 39

OU is averaging 25.4 PPG allowed to teams that are averaging about 33 PPG in their other games. So OU's opponents score about 25% less against OU than they do against everybody else.

A lot of those PPG averages (for both USC and OU opponents) have been inflated by inferior opponents. But that difference is still pretty big. USC keeps their opponents operating about 25% capacity whereas OU's opponents operate at about 75%. That's significant.

Two problems here.

1) Oregon State scored 27 against USC, not 21. Not a huge point difference, but it was the margin USC lost by :D

2) Do the same analysis on offense. How many more points does USC and OU score on teams than they normally allow?

3) I know I said two :O but, Bob takes his foot off the gas and Petey doesn't. How many garbage points are in there when the game has been decided? Those 2 shutouts by USC skew the results. Bob would never shutout a team - partly because we don't have the dominant D, but he hasn't shown it in his nature in other years. He would have 4th string/walkons playing in the 4th if we were close to a shutout. And Bob definitely lets up on the offense in the 2nd half. Petey didn't do that against the truely miserable WSU and Virginia teams.

[PDXsooner]

Those 2 shutouts by USC skew the results. .

not really. that's part of who USC is -- if stoops chooses to take out his starters, then that's who OU is. a shutout is a shutout.

[BoulderSooner79]

not really. that's part of who USC is -- if stoops chooses to take out his starters, then that's who OU is. a shutout is a shutout.

I agree and the coaches can do what they want - I'm not saying Petey is evil. But it does skew the results if you are trying to judge how effective a team is by the numbers. The bottom line is that both teams dominated all their games except for the one they lost. You didn't do the offense numbers but I'll just say I bet OU scores more points above opponents average than USC does and they could have made it even worse, but a W is a W. The most I can tell from your analysis is that defense is more important to you than offense.

[jojotot]

3) I know I said two :O but, Bob takes his foot off the gas and Petey doesn't. How many garbage points are in there when the game has been decided? Those 2 shutouts by USC skew the results. Bob would never shutout a team - partly because we don't have the dominant D, but he hasn't shown it in his nature in other years. He would have 4th string/walkons playing in the 4th if we were close to a shutout. And Bob definitely lets up on the offense in the 2nd half. Petey didn't do that against the truely miserable WSU and Virginia teams.

FYI, in the game against the Cougars, USC allowed the clock to run out with the ball on the Washington State 4 yard line before halftime, rather than try and score. Also, USC threw a total of two times in the entire second half. Further, Sanchez played the first drive of the second half and then left. Finally, every single player who traveled to Washington played in the game, and the defense comprised mainly bench players in the second half.

You can't fairly expect Carroll to tell the defense, whether first team or not, to not try and stop Washington State from scoring.

If USC wanted to run up the score, it would have been triple digits.

[Iam4OUru]

oh I thought he picked Missouri? Maybe he picked USC over Missouri.


Corso initially picked SoCal and Zou to play for the title and the Tigers as the eventual MNC. He's a clown, at best.

[BoulderSooner79]

FYI, in the game against the Cougars, USC allowed the clock to run out with the ball on the Washington State 4 yard line before halftime, rather than try and score. Also, USC threw a total of two times in the entire second half. Further, Sanchez played the first drive of the second half and then left. Finally, every single player who traveled to Washington played in the game, and the defense comprised mainly bench players in the second half.

You can't fairly expect Carroll to tell the defense, whether first team or not, to not try and stop Washington State from scoring.

If USC wanted to run up the score, it would have been triple digits.

I agree and the traveling team doesn't have enough players to have a 3rd and 4th string defense. WSU is just that bad. Just as we could have easily put 100 on Chatty. So scratch those 2 games. My point was that the analysis of how dominant USC is compared to OU was all based on defense. OU strength is on offense and it is very dominant. And it is more dominant than the numbers show because we let up. We've scored 50 in the first half twice and both games ended with us in the 50s - we let up by choice.

The original question was relative BCS rankings of the 2 teams and I think OU has accomplished slightly more in their wins but definitely lost to a higher quality opponent than USC did with their loss. If we win out, we should stay a head and it doesn't matter if we do it via offense, defense or more lucky bounces.

[Remembering Tom Stidham]

I clearly remember Corso putting on that war bonnet before the Florida State victory.

[85sooners]

:pop:

[jwlynn64]

I hear that about 67% of all stats are made up but that doesn't matter because I also read a report that made up numbers are just as good as calculated numbers.

[Salt City Sooner]

straight up - how in the hell do you know this? do you know who was injured on the offenses of all of USC's and OU's opponent's offenses? i'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you probably don't really know.

also, didn't we play Cincy with their 3rd string QB?
Then your limb would snap. They're called depth charts & player participation reports, & they're readily available that school's official website. Oh, & we played Cincinnati with their FIRST string QB until he got hurt in the 4th quarter.

[toast]

Let's look it up.

Here's a list of the "D-1" teams USC has played. The first number is their score against USC, the second number is their average points per game against other opponents:

Virginia 7; 19.3
Ohio State 3; 27.3
Oregon State 21; 35.8
Oregon 10; 46
Arizona State 0; 22.5
Washington State 0; 15.9
Arizona 10; 40.4

USC is averaging 7.3 PPG allowed to teams that are averaging about 30 PPG in their other games. So USC's opponents score about 75% less against USC than they do against everybody else.

Here's the same list for OU:

Cincinnati 26; 27.3
Washington 14; 16.5
TCU 10; 39
Baylor 17; 31
Texas 45; 45.7
Kansas 31; 32.4
Kansas State 35; 39

OU is averaging 25.4 PPG allowed to teams that are averaging about 33 PPG in their other games. So OU's opponents score about 25% less against OU than they do against everybody else.

A lot of those PPG averages (for both USC and OU opponents) have been inflated by inferior opponents. But that difference is still pretty big. USC keeps their opponents operating about 25% capacity whereas OU's opponents operate at about 75%. That's significant.

Nice research and post. But if we considered special teams and the % they have given up that is included in our opponents scoring or led to their scoring then we would be right at the 75% USC number. Well, probably not right at the 75% number, I just made that up. But it would probably be closer to 50%, well I don't know that for sure just guessing. It might be actually closer to 35% - I really don't care. I am just ticked off at all the return yardage our kick-off team is giving up. :mad: :D

[PDXsooner]

Then your limb would snap. They're called depth charts & player participation reports, & they're readily available that school's official website. Oh, & we played Cincinnati with their FIRST string QB until he got hurt in the 4th quarter.


so, you delve into USC and OU's opponents and compare each weekly? don't lie, seriously...

[PDXsooner]

I agree and the coaches can do what they want - I'm not saying Petey is evil. But it does skew the results if you are trying to judge how effective a team is by the numbers. The bottom line is that both teams dominated all their games except for the one they lost. You didn't do the offense numbers but I'll just say I bet OU scores more points above opponents average than USC does and they could have made it even worse, but a W is a W. The most I can tell from your analysis is that defense is more important to you than offense.


yeah, i consider defense much more important to being a championship team. hopefully OU's can start to improve...

[SoonerShay]

A few things about that super USC defense. They have a talented defense but someone is sucking them off a little to hard. I see them play all the time out here in LA and they just aren't as good as the numbers say.

Virginia was the first game of the year, they barely beat Richmond the next week for cry out loud. They were beyond terrible at the start of the season.

Ohio State struggled against Ohio to move the ball before the USC game, didn't have their best offensive weapon and had Terrell Pryor taking the most snaps he ever did in a game as a True Fresh. Ohio State has since stunk it up offensively yards wise and points wise.

Oregon State beat them so lets move on.

Oregon was on the third string QB for this game and had just lost to Boise State at home and had struggled mightly to beat Purdue the week before that. Is anyone here insane enough to think Landry Jones would light anyone up this year?

Arizona State I watched alot of this game and Rudy Carpenter wasn't even supposed to play but did. He was all busted up and couldn't do anything but stink that day. USC also happened to stink this game up on offense.

Washington State? Seriously? They are the worst BCS conference team I have seen in damn near forever. Baylor shellacked them earlier this year and 3 teams put over 60 on them. They are a complete joke.


Arizona is probably the only team I would say they played an opponent that was atleast somewhat quality. They did happen to stink against Stanford and New Mexico somehow but they were putting up respectable points.
Tuitama looked like a ***** most of the game and the play calling was atrocious. Tuitama is so soft he couldnt get a first down on 4 and less than an inch on a QB sneak. My 1 year old has bigger balls than him.


We on the other hand have faced every teams first string QB with no ailments whatsoever to speak of. Our kick off coverage stinks and seems to give up atleast one easy score a game. Either setting the team up in short fiellds or getting the TD itself. Those go on the defense. We actually have an offense that can put the game out of reach in the first quarter some games. USC doesn't. The team starts milking clock and playing like who gives a what and pretty much every team gets some kind of late score.


USC has a good defense but(and yes I hate them especially being around their bandwagon fans out here in LA) but the schedule they have played and when they played the teams is making it look better than they are.

[Salt City Sooner]

so, you delve into USC and OU's opponents and compare each weekly? don't lie, seriously...

Weekly? No. For this thread? You're frickin' straight I did, & I have no idea how you connected OU's opponents with my post because they had absolutely nothing to do with anything I said. Have a nice day, I'm done with this.

[JLEW1818]

I'm bored..... girlfriend is studying, won't let me go out.... somebody drink with me dammit...... drunky thread , vet ... ah

[TopDawg]

1) Oregon State scored 27 against USC, not 21. Not a huge point difference, but it was the margin USC lost by :D

2) Do the same analysis on offense. How many more points does USC and OU score on teams than they normally allow?

1) Sorry, I got those two switched around. My bad. I've edited the original now. Thanks.
2) I was just addressing the question about USC's defense and the teams they've played.


He would have 4th string/walkons playing in the 4th if we were close to a shutout.

We haven't been so far. Outside of the UTC game (which wasn't figured since it wasn't a "D-1" team), Washington was the only team that didn't score in the first half. Their first points came with about 5:30 left in the 3rd.

[BoulderSooner79]

yeah, i consider defense much more important to being a championship team. hopefully OU's can start to improve...

Fair enough, I certainly hope the defense improves as well. And I think they can within the bounds of reason in the next 4 games. I think a championship team wins by controlling the game. Defense and running are the traditional ways of achieving that, but not the only way. Those '80s 49er teams controlled the game with that original west coast offense. The late 90's Broncos teams controlled the game with running and big play passing, but had only an average defense. So it can be done. I sure hope we get better on D in future years, but I truly believe we are close to championship caliber this year. Before RR got hurt, I was sure of it and our D wasn't great then.

[TopDawg]

A few things about that super USC defense. They have a talented defense but someone is sucking them off a little to hard. I see them play all the time out here in LA and they just aren't as good as the numbers say.

...

USC has a good defense but(and yes I hate them especially being around their bandwagon fans out here in LA) but the schedule they have played and when they played the teams is making it look better than they are.

There's no question that their schedule isn't stellar, but the numbers show that the offenses they face (whether awful, like Wazzu; or pretty good, like Arizona) play a lot worse against USC than against their other opponents.

On the other hand, the offenses that we face play a little worse or, in some cases, virtually the same against us as they do against all other opponents. Now that can be due to a number of things, some of which have already been pointed out. I'm not trying to make an argument that USC's a better team than OU, just that there are numbers to support the stance that USC's defense is top notch regardless of their competition.

[Collier11]

I'm bored..... girlfriend is studying, won't let me go out.... somebody drink with me dammit...... drunky thread , vet ... ah

your gf wont let you go out? :mad: :eek:

quit being a vaj!

[PDXsooner]

Weekly? No. For this thread? You're frickin' straight I did, & I have no idea how you connected OU's opponents with my post because they had absolutely nothing to do with anything I said. Have a nice day, I'm done with this.

buh-bye, i win.

[PDXsooner]

I see them play all the time out here in LA and they just aren't as good as the numbers say.



guess what -- they don't play behind a giant curtain. their games are on TV for all to see.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

The USC comparisons **** me off. Seriously Oregon St. was GASHING them. The 343 yards were misleading. Now honestly let's say offensively is Oregon St. better than Texas, OU, Tech, Oklahoma State..I say definetly NO. You could argue that Kansas, K-State, are better as well. I am just saying it isn't like they BEAT Oregon St.

[OU_Sooners75]

i'll play devil's advocate just for fun. outside of two quarters against oregon state, USC has held their opponents to 36 points in 26 quarters!!!

removing the oregon state game (in which they gave up 27 points), teams are averaging 5.0 PPG against USC.

i hate USC, but i'd take them with that defense against just about anyone in the country right now.

1. I want to see a rematch between Ohio State and USC. OSU has developed as an offense since that game.

2. USC has not played anyone except OSU, which if they played in the SEC or Big 12, would have more than just 2 losses.

3. USC would lose to Texas, Penn State, OU, Florida, and Georgia. It is not hard to be that dominate when you are playing High School teams!

[Crucifax Autumn]

Dear Mr. OUTromBoNado,

It's because Corso is a big dumbazz!

[Crucifax Autumn]

2. USC has not played anyone except OSU, which if they played in the SEC or Big 12, would have more than just 2 losses.

And these boneheads would have more that 2 losses if they played in the WAC!

[SoonersEnFuego]

To be honest, it really doesn't matter right now. If we win out, I'm pretty certain we'll be in the National Championship, because I'm not sure everyone else will win out. Unless Texas has some magical season, damnit.

[boomersooner28]

I have a soft spot in my heart for USC. They can actually cheat, get caught, AND get away with it! Theres something to be said for that! :rolleyes:

[SoonerShay]

guess what -- they don't play behind a giant curtain. their games are on TV for all to see.

Except most people in the midwest and east coast don't see them. Especially the east coast because USC plays some late games sometimes. EST atleast.

I don't see a box score or some highlights on ESPN and then automatically assume USC is some juggernaut because Mark May said so on gameday.

You want to talk them up, fine talk their defense up. Ill just point out why exactly they have such gaudy stats on defense. Most OU fans probably don't watch them as often as I do and more than likely have no idea the situations with the teams they played this year.

[The Remnant]

USC's weakness on defense is pass coverage. There have not played anybody yet with the passing offense good enough to exploit that.