Solutions to our defense???

[MiccoMacey]

And please don't say Fire Bent Venables. That's not going to happen.

I'm asking for sincere solutions to turn around our defensive play. How would you do it?

Attitude? Alignment? Scheme?

For those who believe they can run our defense better...here's your chance.

[yermom]

tackle.

[OUDoc]

Bear Bryant

[BornandBred]

1) Get Box experience so that he's not a step behind everything.
2) Change the blitzing schemes, hide them better is what I have specifically in mind
3) Better match ups in scheme, ie never cover the fastest guy on the team with LB

[Dan Thompson]

Look at the Box score

OU 28 27 0 3
KSU 14 14 7 0

We shut down there offense in the second half, along with our own! Defense, what happened to our offense.

If the defense needs to be changed, then put more people to cover the short pass in the middle.

TT is going to be a big problem for us.

[Breadburner]

I would rather see the special teams pick it up......You could attribute 14 pts K St. scored directly to special teams....

[htownsooner7]

The defense needs an overhaul. We need to think about dropping our end or even defensive tackle into the short throw areas if we are going to blitz our linebackers. Otherwise, the qbs have such an easy time completing 5 and 6 yard balls underneath.

[NormanPride]

1) Get Box experience so that he's not a step behind everything.
2) Change the blitzing schemes, hide them better is what I have specifically in mind
3) Better match ups in scheme, ie never cover the fastest guy on the team with LB

1 - We're doing that.

2 - I agree, but would you rather teach Box where to be or how to blitz fancy?

3 - This is why we played Harris against KU.

So, really... what we're doing already? Good to know you're on board with the coaches. :)

[BoulderSooner79]

Is the question for the rest of the season or longer term ?

Assuming it is for the rest of the season, major changes are not practical - that would just result in missed assignments and big plays.

1) More blitzing. We already saw that against KSU and we should continue the trend with NU and aTm. It will give TT and OSU more to worry about during game prep, but we should blitz less against them.

2) Tighter coverage in the middle. This will open up the outside a bit more, but that is a longer, tougher throw.

3) Settle on Box at MLB and let him learn or stick with Nic. I didn't think Nic was all that effective in the KU game, but the coaches need to stick with something.

[BornandBred]

1 - We're doing that.

2 - I agree, but would you rather teach Box where to be or how to blitz fancy?

3 - This is why we played Harris against KU.

So, really... what we're doing already? Good to know you're on board with the coaches. :)

Yeah, pretty much. I've been a BV detractor before, but I can't put all this blame on him. And I'd rather Box be a solid defender, but with the other guys, they can work more advanced schemes.

[JLEW1818]

It just seems every time we blitz they pass to that side. I think our defense is very very predictable. That's just me

[NormanPride]

You know what we need to do? We need to be in more games. Box is learning as fast as he's getting real plays. Practice does a lot, but it's not going to stick until he's out there. Our scheme this year has been to occupy blockers with our DLine while applying steady pressure with said Dline and a couple blitzers on occasion. This means that unless the LBs know what they're doing, we get all soft and squishy inside.

[boomermagic]

Tackling would be great and how about we cover the receivers ? Venables is a great LB's coach I sure wouldn't fire him but he needs to step up and get this defense lined out..

[JLEW1818]

I think Bob Stoops needs to step up and be more of a dictator.

[Jdog]

Where is Gary Gibbs when you need him.

[BornandBred]

You know what we need to do? We need to be in more games. Box is learning as fast as he's getting real plays. Practice does a lot, but it's not going to stick until he's out there. Our scheme this year has been to occupy blockers with our DLine while applying steady pressure with said Dline and a couple blitzers on occasion. This means that unless the LBs know what they're doing, we get all soft and squishy inside.

Agreed, he just needs more experience. Do you think they should adjust the scheme to account for the n00bish MLB in the mean time? What would that entail, more stunts and twists? Zone blitzes? That seems to be something BV could adjust, but I don't know if that would accomplish what we want.

[BoulderSooner79]

It just seems every time we blitz they pass to that side. I think our defense is very very predictable. That's just me

It's more predictable if we don't blitz. But I wonder how many of those 5 turnovers were affected by the blitz? I know 1 was just a good strip play on the WR who was stretching for a first down. But the 3 picks and the QB fumble were caused by pressure, but I don't know if the blitz caused them. With our offense, a turnover is going to hurt the opponent more than a big play hurts us (unless the big play is a score). We should be able to out-score NU and aTm, so those are the games to gamble and show a lot of different looks. If we get burned, much like the KSU game, we should still be able to win. Hopefully, we get better coverage behind the blitz and Box gets more comfortable in time for TT.

In any scenerio, the offense is going to have to lead and ultimately decide the game. If they have an off game against TT or OSU, I don't see what changes can be made on D to dominate play.

[Partial Qualifier]

properly prepare the Box for slippery penetration?






:)

[MojoRisen]

I don't think we could do any worse in man coverage - bump and run. A lot of what is going on are these 3-5 yard routes that are all based on timing. If you mix up bump and run and get decent coverage I think it knocks the rythem out of most QB's.

I can't stand having to yell at the TV on 3&5 asking why we are 10 yards off the slant reciever.. Get up and challenge the recievers..

[BoulderSooner79]

Agreed, he just needs more experience. Do you think they should adjust the scheme to account for the n00bish MLB in the mean time? What would that entail, more stunts and twists? Zone blitzes? That seems to be something BV could adjust, but I don't know if that would accomplish what we want.

I think that is the exact reason we blitzed more against KSU. If we blitz, we force the play and may force the other team to go to a hot read instead of a play that may be designed to pick on the MLB. Now KSU did a good job of countering our blitz, but they also threw 3 picks and the QB fumbled on a sack. I like the philosophy and I think we can get better covering behind the blitz with some tweaking.

[SoonerAcesUp]

I've got a couple of ideas and I'm sure the coaches have thought about them but I haven't seen them try them.

1) Against K-State I really noticed that we were trying to cover the slot with a LB (mostly K. Clayton). Their slot (Banks) was the fastest guy they had and there was no way a LB was going to cover him. It seems like we always have three LBs on the field at all times and never go to a nickel or dime defense. Is there a reason why? Do we not have another CB that can come in and cover a slot and keep Clayton and Lewis on the field to cover RBs/TEs?

2) I know we tried the experiment with N. Harris at MLB and thus brought another DB in to play safety (Q. Carter) but this brings me to my next point. Our safeties play great against the run but have a terrible time playing the pass especially over the middle or playing the deep ball. It seems like they have a really hard time finding the ball on a deep pass. Safeties aren't really supposed to be great cover guys and I know that so that makes me wonder why we don't play another corner who is used to playing man-to-man D. I think D. Franks and B. Jackson have done a great job this year in covering and I think if you go back and watch the games this year, the pass defense problem hasn't been the corners much at all but mostly on LBs trying to cover guys they have no chance in keeping up with and with safeties not being able to play the deep ball or play good man-to-man especially on crossing routes.

Just a couple of observations. Let me have it....

[MamaMia]

For the gazillionth time... Its real simple. Run some man to man along with the zone.

[BornandBred]

I think that is the exact reason we blitzed more against KSU. If we blitz, we force the play and may force the other team to go to a hot read instead of a play that may be designed to pick on the MLB. Now KSU did a good job of countering our blitz, but they also threw 3 picks and the QB fumbled on a sack. I like the philosophy and I think we can get better covering behind the blitz with some tweaking.

Yeah, there were more big plays in this game, for both sides. In some other thread, I'm too lazy to go look it up, the idea of selling out for the turn over with the threat of giving up the big play was brought up. The coaches seemed to have read that post and agreed. Hopefully, in the next couple weeks our D behind the blitz improves a ton. We're close, but that doesn't cut it.

[NormanPride]

For the gazillionth time... Its real simple. Run some man to man along with the zone.

We do.

[NormanPride]

Yeah, there were more big plays in this game, for both sides. In some other thread, I'm too lazy to go look it up, the idea of selling out for the turn over with the threat of giving up the big play was brought up. The coaches seemed to have read that post and agreed. Hopefully, in the next couple weeks our D behind the blitz improves a ton. We're close, but that doesn't cut it.

Yeah, in the past when our DLine was crap and we couldn't stop the run we blitzed a lot. Now that we don't want teams picking on our MLB we will be taking more chances in a similar way. What I don't look forward to is facing Pettigrew, where we REALLY need Box to play well, no matter what we do.

[BornandBred]

What I don't look forward to is facing Pettigrew, where we REALLY need Box to play well, no matter what we do.

How'r Gresham's man coverage skills?

[NormanPride]

:D

[St. Louis Sooner]

IF BV was more prone to try new things and experiment more, my imagination would be on fire with this question; but knowing his penchant for not changing things, I dont' see a way to fix the defense ...

we need time and experience with the available personnel; we're stuck with what we have for the remainder of the season unless BV has some tweaks in store no one sees coming;

i'm kinda spent talking about our defense though; weak as it is, i'm sure BV is losing sleep over it like we all are;

[BoulderSooner79]

IF BV was more prone to try new things and experiment more, my imagination would be on fire with this question; but knowing his penchant for not changing things, I dont' see a way to fix the defense ...

we need time and experience with the available personnel; we're stuck with what we have for the remainder of the season unless BV has some tweaks in store no one sees coming;

i'm kinda spent talking about our defense though; weak as it is, i'm sure BV is losing sleep over it like we all are;

I thought the game plan against KSU did look different. Regardless, your 2nd statement is spot on - have what we have with the folks we have. But defensive play calling can still be huge within the boundaries of what we can do. I don't see us shutting anyone down in the next 4 games, but we don't have to. We just have to get enough stops or force a critical turnover in order to win. Our offense has to win the game. I like our schedule with 2 games our offense *should* be able to win even if the defense plays poorly. That should allow the coaches confidence to be bold and the players to play loose. It should also give TT a lot to worry about. It wouldn't bother me a bit if the NU and aTm games are similar to KSU where they get yards and points, but the offense just toys with them. Then TT comes in here licking their chops and find out the defense is better than they expected and our offense is just as awesome as they feared.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Is the question for the rest of the season or longer term ?

Assuming it is for the rest of the season, major changes are not practical - that would just result in missed assignments and big plays.

1) More blitzing. We already saw that against KSU and we should continue the trend with NU and aTm. It will give TT and OSU more to worry about during game prep, but we should blitz less against them.

2) Tighter coverage in the middle. This will open up the outside a bit more, but that is a longer, tougher throw.

3) Settle on Box at MLB and let him learn or stick with Nic. I didn't think Nic was all that effective in the KU game, but the coaches need to stick with something.

1. this year's team is missing an ontei jones or brandon shelby - secondary guys who had a knack for blitzing. guys who are good at blitzing seem to be able to a) disguise their blitz b) dodge blockers in open space and c) seem to be able to read the collapse of the pocket. our guys today seem to have a knack for running right into the blocker in open space. it may be a coincidence but we aren't very good in kickoff coverage without a guy like that in the middle of the formation either.

2. tighter coverage in the middle? while i agree with you, we just don't have the personnel at linebacker to make it happen and if the safeties get sucked up, our problem is going to be over the top on the deep post, not on the edges

3. i think box will be okay barring injury. while he made some mistakes in coverage in the 1st half, he was at least in the general area of the passing play.


I don't think we could do any worse in man coverage - bump and run. A lot of what is going on are these 3-5 yard routes that are all based on timing. If you mix up bump and run and get decent coverage I think it knocks the rythem out of most QB's.

I can't stand having to yell at the TV on 3&5 asking why we are 10 yards off the slant reciever.. Get up and challenge the recievers..

For the gazillionth time... Its real simple. Run some man to man along with the zone.


we've been in a moderate amount of bump and run this year. that long TD where brian jackson fell down? bump and run. i think our bigger issue is that we've been a predominantly zone blitzing team and it seems that teams have caught up with the zone blitz. lets take that one little receivers long run, they threw to the wide side of the field knowing that beal could never get out there because of the zone blitz - that left us a man short. you combine that with carter taking a bad angle (most likely underestimated that guy's speed) and it was a long TD.

this is something that goes back to recruiting. our best zone defenders under stoops are guys that were recruited for the man press/46 defense (guys like strait, thompson, roy williams, calmus, lehman, everage). our secondary has been a patchwork at best since those early classes. i mean some of our best ball hawking safeties were recruited as running backs. the only person who seemed immune was venables who seemed to pick linebacker after linebacker for the 4-2-5 we'd been playing. when we tweaked the D to a 4-3-5, all of a sudden our linebacker fit went down the crapper.


IF BV was more prone to try new things and experiment more, my imagination would be on fire with this question; but knowing his penchant for not changing things, I dont' see a way to fix the defense ...

we need time and experience with the available personnel; we're stuck with what we have for the remainder of the season unless BV has some tweaks in store no one sees coming;

i'm kinda spent talking about our defense though; weak as it is, i'm sure BV is losing sleep over it like we all are;

one of the key things that i think is hurting us is the time the QB has to throw - for most of the 1st half he was getting 5+ seconds to throw. thus the blitzing, which lead to the quick passes, etc.

2 quickfix things that i think we could do that would help us on D.

1. our defenders need to get their hands in the air when we are blitzing. this has never been a technique that shipp has ever been big on, but i think it could make it tougher to get those short routes off.

2. our center needs to snap the ball when defenders are in the neutral zone. the key thing this does is satisfy a pet peeve of mine. however, the secondary benefit is that it gives the D more time to put in adjustments because the series takes longer. right now, i feel like our offense scores so quickly that our defensive staff doesn't have time to put in adjustments before the guys are on the field again. i mean, how much adjusting can you do in 3 minutes?

[JLEW1818]

It's more predictable if we don't blitz. But I wonder how many of those 5 turnovers were affected by the blitz? I know 1 was just a good strip play on the WR who was stretching for a first down. But the 3 picks and the QB fumble were caused by pressure, but I don't know if the blitz caused them. With our offense, a turnover is going to hurt the opponent more than a big play hurts us (unless the big play is a score). We should be able to out-score NU and aTm, so those are the games to gamble and show a lot of different looks. If we get burned, much like the KSU game, we should still be able to win. Hopefully, we get better coverage behind the blitz and Box gets more comfortable in time for TT.

In any scenerio, the offense is going to have to lead and ultimately decide the game. If they have an off game against TT or OSU, I don't see what changes can be made on D to dominate play.


I see what you are saying and I agree. But against a good team Like Texas, Colt read it about everytime. I think Tech and Oklahoma State will do the same.

K State is horrible. They had 5 turnovers during the game, AND STILL HAD 550 YARDS. HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? If that is not lack of defense, what the hell is? If we were playing a good team, we would have got murdered. But that’s okay, lets keep giving up yards like that and we will continue to have 3 loss seasons

[East Coast Bias]

Watching the defensive play in the NFL which is very solid I have been struck with how much better the defensive line play is compared to college. There is no offense ahead of the defense in the NFL. The colts which are the NFL version of the spread, get absolutely stuffed by solid defensive line play. LB's, corners and safety's all cover the whole field because the defensive line controls the running game. Also 3 seconds is a long time to hold the ball. Bottom line is better line play and better pressure. The LB's and db's will all cover better with good pressure.

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

How about we get our swagger back?

Or maybe play this video in pregame to get our players pumped up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtJRNyPK-lc

[NormanPride]

LOTS OF STUFF....
however, the secondary benefit is that it gives the D more time to put in adjustments because the series takes longer. right now, i feel like our offense scores so quickly that our defensive staff doesn't have time to put in adjustments before the guys are on the field again. i mean, how much adjusting can you do in 3 minutes?

That's a good point. Could this be why so many hurry up offense teams have bad defenses?

It's key to get the offense going early, and the D has to get early stops. Once a team gets up on someone, that usually takes them out of their gameplan, which in turn makes them easier to defend.

[BoulderSooner79]

I see what you are saying and I agree. But against a good team Like Texas, Colt read it about everytime. I think Tech and Oklahoma State will do the same.

K State is horrible. They had 5 turnovers during the game, AND STILL HAD 550 YARDS. HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? If that is not lack of defense, what the hell is? If we were playing a good team, we would have got murdered. But that’s okay, lets keep giving up yards like that and we will continue to have 3 loss seasons

I don't really understand your point. I was only talking about what we could do for the next 4 games to try to win them. I think everyone agrees our defense is not very good right now, but that doesn't mean we can't win these 4 games. We played one of the best, if not the best team in the country and we didn't get murdered - we still had a chance to win in the 4th qtr. and I still wonder what would have happened if we could have converted that 4th & 2. Can't say we would have won, bu it would have been a nail-biter finish. We have 2 winable games on-deck and a bye week to game plan for TT. We will also have the advantage of seeing what UT and OSU does against TT, while we don't have to give away as much playing NU and aTm. If our offense does not let up, we really do have a chance to win all 4 games if our D can just incrementally improve. I think the next 5 weeks will be very interesting.

[NormanPride]

On another note, jkm... I noticed that Box was in position to make ints on a couple passes, but missed them. One was a TD, and one let them out of their own endzone. As a coach, do you like to see that kind of stuff, or is it an indication of putting the cart before the horse?

[BoulderSooner79]

On another note, jkm... I noticed that Box was in position to make ints on a couple passes, but missed them. One was a TD, and one let them out of their own endzone. As a coach, do you like to see that kind of stuff, or is it an indication of putting the cart before the horse?

Not jkm, but I'll throw in my free (i.e worthless) opinion. I thought it was a positive sign - Austin read his key correctly and was in the right place. On the TD pass, he didn't locate the ball in time and I think that was just inexperience. With practice, the defender knows when the ball is coming by watching the receivers eyes and hands. I also think he had to look back into the sun on that play, but he was too late anyway. On the another play (don't know if it is the same one you are talking about). The ball was coming right at him and he froze-up waiting for it to get there. In reality, there was a receiver crossing underneath that made the catch. Again, he was in the correct place and with experience he'll know where the receiver is and come toward the ball and either break up the pass or make the tackle.

[JLEW1818]

Is the defense getting worse each game.... Ya we stopped Kansas on Third down every time, ya we forced 5 turnovers against KState. But look at the yards....look at the career records...

[birddog]

2 words..T W I S T E R MAT.

[DangTire]

The point this thread is missing is that the defense is NOT going to get any better as long as Vulnerables is in charge. I don't give a damn what you run. He's in over his head and he's simply not intelligent enough to be good at coordinating. He's had 4 years to pull his head out of his *** and has been unable to do so, so all this means absolutely jack ****.

[oudivesherpa]

I don't think we could do any worse in man coverage - bump and run. A lot of what is going on are these 3-5 yard routes that are all based on timing. If you mix up bump and run and get decent coverage I think it knocks the rythem out of most QB's.

I can't stand having to yell at the TV on 3&5 asking why we are 10 yards off the slant reciever.. Get up and challenge the recievers..

We are 10 yards off the slant reciever because we don't want to get beat deep.

[NormanPride]

That and we have DEs and LBs covering the flats, which is normal.

[stoopified]

We can't do anything about injuries or inexperience on D so my sloution is MORE OFFENSE.Do NOT let up,quit using the WE'VE GOT THE LEAD- MILK THE CLOCK OFFENSE.Bury the other team under an avalanche of points so deep you break their will to compete.Under this plan we would have scored 70 on BU,60 on KU,50 on TCU,80 on KSU.I guarantee their players would quit as the score mounted .

[cjames317]

We can't do anything about injuries or inexperience on D so my sloution is MORE OFFENSE.Do NOT let up,quit the using the WE'VE GOT THE LEAD MILK THE CLOCK OFFENSE.Bury the other team under an avalanche of points so deep you break their will to compete.Under this plan we would have scored 70 on BU,60 on KU,50 on TCU,80 on KSU.I guarantee their players would quit as the score mounted .

I vote for this one.

[MALE918]

we play a version of the tampa 2. this is a very simple defense and when run properly is very, very difficult to beat. it's kind of like a cover 2; however, unlike a cover 2 the middle lb drops back to help cover the deep middle zone - hence it becomes a cover 3. the other difference is it is predicated on speed, aggression and great tacklers.

there are certain must haves for this d to work.
1-speed - this makes the natural soft spots in a zone smaller.
2-a very active and swarming d line - this reduces the need to blitz.
3-safeties that are above avg in cover skills - because they cover deep receivers.
4-a hard hitting strong safety - to intimidate the smaller receivers that play in slot and r.b. from going across the middle.
5-a free safety that is savvy enough to beat r.b. on the rare blitz plays
6-because the d is predicated on speed, the team will usually be smaller than avg; but this is made up for with aggression.
things we lack
1. our speed is good but not great.
2. our d-line is not swarming causing us to have to blitz.
3. no hard hitting safety.
4. our blitzers;whoever, they are cannot beat blocks.
5. absolutely no aggression

this defense is actually a very simple d to run. it's constituent use is based more on having proper components. most d's are flipped - complicated to run but can be run with just about anyone. we lack many things it takes to run this d at this moment. and the one important part that is lacking at the top of that defense. attitude reflects leadership. this defense needs great aggression. b.v. is a great x's and o's guy but he does not have the fire to instill into the players. that's why b.v. and stoops were a great match. it was the best of both worlds.

[MALE918]

does anyone remember when our backs (lb's, safeties, and cb's) would shoot thru gaps and make the tackles? does anyone see this happening now? i don't - they play as gap pluggers instead of shooters. i doubt that b.v. stopped teaching that way, but i don't think he is getting it thru to them. that might have been mike's job to get it thru to the players. we need someone to come in and get the aggression aspect thru to the players. keep b.v. just make an addition to the team

[BoulderSooner79]

We can't do anything about injuries or inexperience on D so my sloution is MORE OFFENSE.Do NOT let up,quit the using the WE'VE GOT THE LEAD MILK THE CLOCK OFFENSE.Bury the other team under an avalanche of points so deep you break their will to compete.Under this plan we would have scored 70 on BU,60 on KU,50 on TCU,80 on KSU.I guarantee their players would quit as the score mounted .

Killer instinct on offense ? I tend to agree, but that hasn't hurt us yet. At least I hope we didn't let up against UT. But when we went from 28-7 to 28-28 last week, the offense had back to back 3 and outs and it definitely fired up KSU. I have a bit of fear about the NU game because they seem to be improving. And they did take TT to overtime in Lubbock - how did that happen? So yeah, we should bury NU early like Mizzou did and keep pouring it on until they are broken.

[picasso]

TT is going to be a big problem for us.

and we are going to be a big problem for them.

[BoulderSooner79]

and we are going to be a big problem for them.

True, dat. :)

[MojoRisen]

Brent Venables will turn it around against Nebraska

We will beat Tech and Ok St

If we can hold them both under 30 points we have a damn good chance of winnng every game here on in..

Then he will have 4 weeks to prepare for our bowl opponent - if he gives up more than 30 against them- I will say it is definitely time to move on from Venables - which I do not want to see happen...

Bosie St 43 points
WVU 48 points
USC 55 points

Something like this if it continues unfortunately will start to be detrimental to our program for recruiting and national respect- which you need these days to get too the big dance which is our Goal every year...

[Frozen Sooner]

1. Keep contain when rushing the QB. Anyone coming off the corner (DE, LB or CB) isn't doing a great job of keeping outside technique. This allows the QB to sidestep the pressure and find someone open on the sideline with a clear field of vision. This has been a problem for a couple of years for us. Keeping the outside technique forces the QB to step up into our DTs-impairing their field of vision and allowing the DTs to help out with the pass rush.

2. Blitz up the middle. Hell with it-our MLB is getting eaten up in coverage, so why not zone blitz with him a bit? Drop Beal into coverage and blitz Box. Box is fast when he's not overthinking a play.

3. DBs must do a better job jamming at the line. One thing that will really help both Franks and Jackson is getting their hands on the WR at the LOS and messing up their pattern. One of those long TDs vs. KU was Jackson flat-out missing on a jam and falling down.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Why don't we go back to the 4-2-5 alignment we used to play? Do we really need 3 linebackers on the field against teams that throw 80% of the time?

[Boomer38Sooner]

I think that some of our defensive struggles come from the fact that our offense scores too fast and the defensive players don't get a huge amount of time to rest and be coached up and prepare on the sidelines. This can contribute to our guys playing tired and getting burnt and making mental mistakes. We have the athletes and talent, but no emotion or aggressiveness.

[Partial Qualifier]

The coaches know the X's and O's better than any of us. What the team really needs is a couple "Bad Cops" -- which is exactly what we lost when Mangino and Mike left to be head coaches.

Let the Good Cops teach and let the Bad Cops bust the players' chops so they stay focused and don't fall into the "We're Oklahoma" trap. It's gotta be someone coaching on the sidelines (none of those "press box" bad cops, u know wut i'm sayin)

I nominate Jackie Shipp on defense and, hmmm.. not sure who the offense's Bad Cop could be... Norvell? Everyone else is too nice to be a bad cop


:O

[EnragedOUfan]

Maybe we should quit running the same 4-3-4 scheme every game. I am by no means nor do I have close to the capability of being a collegiate defensive coordinator but I favor the 4-2-5 and 3-3-5 over the 4-3-4. Hell, I personally would like to see us adopt the 3-2-6 which would especially be useful against Texas Tech I would think. Against Oklahoma State, the 3-2-6 could be a problem especially when trying to defend/stop Hunter in which the 4-3-4 or 3-4-4 could compensate. This is just an opinion.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

a simple question - do the coaches consider clayton a linebacker or a safety?

[Tulsa_Fireman]

a simple question - do the coaches consider clayton a linebacker or a safety?

All of the above, from what I've seen of the way they play him.

[NormanPride]

a simple question - do the coaches consider clayton a linebacker or a safety?

Depends on which team we're playing, right? ;)

[St. Louis Sooner]

[QUOTE=MALE918;2464276]
things we lack
1. our speed is good but not great.
2. our d-line is not swarming causing us to have to blitz - 'cuz they're on the field too long, fighting too hard to cover up the secondary's problems;
3. no hard hitting safety.
4. our blitzers;whoever, they are cannot beat blocks - What happened to English? Last year he was a beast making sacks at the right times;
5. absolutely no aggression - they have aggression just lacking passion and insight on how to use it;
[QUOTE]

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

'cuz they're on the field too long, fighting too hard to cover up the secondary's problems;

yet if you watch the kstate game, we sporadically got pressure in the first half compared with decent pressure in the second half. even the INT in the first series, english got his throwing arm 5 or so seconds into the snap. of course, what seemed to let the wind out of our sails was the long kickoff return. that is the 2nd game (texas being the other) where we were going up 14-0 and then gave them new life.

What happened to English? Last year he was a beast making sacks at the right times;

he had an appendectomy during 2-a-days (60 or so days ago). i can't imagine him getting his form back until we have some weeks off.

they have aggression just lacking passion and insight on how to use it;

heh, no arguments here. we blitz without believing we can get to the QB.



CIL

[NormanPride]

You know, jkm, I think you're mad at the wrong stat. It seems like what we need to worry about is QB hurries. We're only two sacks short of our total last year, but we only seem to have 10 QB hurries, where we normally have about 30 by now. This is from cfbstats.com, so take that for what it's worth.

You're right, though, in that we just don't seem to have players that have "it" when it comes to blitzing. I miss Brandon Shelby.

[My Opinion Matters]

Personally, I think the best way to attack a spread offense is with a 3-4 defense. Of course we're severely lacking the kind of personnel needed to run that defense.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

np, i'm not mad at sack numbers, just the time they have to throw.

i was going to put this in the fire stob boops thread but i'll put it here.

lets go back to 2001 - our offense was horrible and our D was really good (you know the opposite of this year).

season stats (http://www.soonerstats.com/football/seasons/stats_team.cfm?seasonid=2001)

4 times that year the opposing offense outgained our offense, this with what is arguably the best defense that stoops has fielded in his tenure (yet we somehow gave up 450 yards to kstate that year). this offense was even worse if you take out the stat bump that jason white gave the team by 400 yard performances against kansas and baylor.

we on this board were up in arms about mangino and wanted him gone (which he was at the end of the year). chuck long then took this offense the next 3 years and shattered a ton of offensive numbers at OU. chuck long, as has been oft-mentioned on this board, sucked - so how was he so able to turn the train around?

was mangino a horrible OC? i think his time at kansas has proven differently (even though i think his primary success has been on the defensive side of the ball).

was it our scheme? we ran the same offense that everyone is running now (whereas now, we run a different version than everyone else). it was just a slight tweak over leach's offense (a little heavier on running).

was it the personnel? lets see...

2 first year QBs

we lost 611 OL to attrition (1 when kempenich didn't apply for a hardship), 2 to injury, and ended up playing mostly freshmen.

our WRs had a bad year - we lost mackey early, josh norman had a bad senior year, clayton was a freshman and while he showed some dazzling promise, wasn't consistent which left it all on fagan and trent smith.

Q was hurt for most of the year (i can still hear the calls for renaldo works)

we had no fullback after littrell graduated (that was a huge loss btw)

when we look at our defense this year, do we see some similarities? i would think so. i would also point out that the chosen successor had a tremendous amount of success for a couple of years (outside of big 12 championship and bowl games) and was ran out of town.

[NormanPride]

It's hard to argue with Wilson's numbers, though. Chuck also had the best talent to work with.

[KC//CRIMSON]

15 men on the field! That should keep 'em from scoring 35+.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

It's hard to argue with Wilson's numbers, though. Chuck also had the best talent to work with.

they are for the most part the same players that mangino had the only variable was time and injuries.

[NormanPride]

Well, I don't think Mangino was bad. Chuck, I think, took too much from Bob's "steady as she goes" mentality.

[Boomer38Sooner]

It also seems that all of our sacks are coverage sacks. It seems like the quarterbacks have all the time in the world and then we finally get them down. But when the coverage is bad, thats when we get gashed

[TMcGee86]

Here's something I find interesting, if not disturbing.

Since the end of the 2004 regular season we have had 9 games where we had more than a week to prepare. (not counting this year)


We have lost six of those nine.


We have only lost a total of 11 games in that same time span.

So in six of those 11 loses, we had more than a week to prepare. (Obviously for bowl games we had nearly a month, and in the rest we had two weeks, save one game where we had an extra day cause we played on a Friday)

And in two of the three wins, we only won by 3, and 6 respectively.

The only game since 2005 where we've looked good after a bye week was last year against A&M when we won 42-14. (and maybe that can be explained by having played so poorly at ISU the week prior to the bye)


I know that old adage of "Give Coach so-and-so two weeks to prepare and he can beat anyone" is cliché, but my gosh, give us two weeks and we suck, give us a month and we are flat out awful.

Especially on defense. Since 05 the opponents score in those games were:

43
30
14
28
43
27
14
48


It's like give us two weeks, and we'll give you a minimum of two touchdowns guaranteed.

I have no idea what this means, or why this is, but it sure doesn't seem like good news.

[Okie35]

Personally, I think the best way to attack a spread offense is with a 3-4 defense. Of course we're severely lacking the kind of personnel needed to run that defense.

3-3-5 stops it... easily...

[Okie35]

I know that old adage of "Give Coach so-and-so two weeks to prepare and he can beat anyone" is cliché, but my gosh, give us two weeks and we suck, give us a month and we are flat out awful.


most of the time its because we play a team we haven't played before in a bowl game... and we dont prepare well enough... or underestimate the team...

[My Opinion Matters]

3-3-5 stops it... easily...

I would say that's an over-simplication. And that's with the assumption we have the proper personnel to run that system, which we don't.

[Okie35]

I would say that's an over-simplication. And that's with the assumption we have the proper personnel to run that system, which we don't.

i never said we had the personnel it just stops the spread for the most part...

[BornandBred]

most of the time its because we play a team we haven't played before in a bowl game... and we dont prepare well enough... or underestimate the team...

Or steal coats, fake injuries, fail classes, etc...

[TrophyCollector]

Here's something I find interesting, if not disturbing.

Since the end of the 2004 regular season we have had 9 games where we had more than a week to prepare. (not counting this year)


We have lost six of those nine.


We have only lost a total of 11 games in that same time span.

So in six of those 11 loses, we had more than a week to prepare. (Obviously for bowl games we had nearly a month, and in the rest we had two weeks, save one game where we had an extra day cause we played on a Friday)

And in two of the three wins, we only won by 3, and 6 respectively.

The only game since 2005 where we've looked good after a bye week was last year against A&M when we won 42-14. (and maybe that can be explained by having played so poorly at ISU the week prior to the bye)


I know that old adage of "Give Coach so-and-so two weeks to prepare and he can beat anyone" is cliché, but my gosh, give us two weeks and we suck, give us a month and we are flat out awful.

Especially on defense. Since 05 the opponents score in those games were:

43
30
14
28
43
27
14
48


It's like give us two weeks, and we'll give you a minimum of two touchdowns guaranteed.

I have no idea what this means, or why this is, but it sure doesn't seem like good news.

Sometimes we also play good teams in bowl games.

[TMcGee86]

Sometimes we also play good teams in bowl games.

Yeah I agree. I've actually made that point in another thread somewhere. I think we have been unlucky when it comes to bowl games in that we are always put up against teams with a huge chip on their shoulder.

[FaninAma]

Yeah I agree. I've actually made that point in another thread somewhere. I think we have been unlucky when it comes to bowl games in that we are always put up against teams with a huge chip on their shoulder.

So where do our coaches go to buy some of these shoulder chips? They seem to work pretty well.

[MiccoMacey]

3-3-5 stops it... easily...

Let me disagree here.

I say the opposite. In order to stop the spread, you HAVE to get pressure on the QB.

I know you can blitz some of the LB's and DB's in the 3-3-5, but run a 5-2 (like Switzer did) and you not only stop the run but you automatically put pressure on the QB as well.

We have the corners...Jackson and Franks are much farther ahead of schedule than expected.