When do you start blaming Bob Stoops for

[ratedrsuperstar]

Mr. Venables ? after all, he did hire him and hasn't taken the defense from him !

[85sooners]

shut yer trap

[Curly Bill]

I think it's a valid question.

The answer I'm not sure of, but obviously Bob deserves some of the blame. It will be interesting to see if anything is done following this season.

[Widescreen]

Obviously he doesn't think the problem is big enough to overcome his loyalty. Unfortunate. :(

[olevetonahill]

I wont ever Blame Bob for anything .
I kinda remember the 90s :rolleyes:
If Bob thinks BV is the Best availible I believe Him .

[Curly Bill]

I don't want to go back to the 90's either.

Neither do I want to keep having defenses that let us down.

[olevetonahill]

I don't want to go back to the 90's either.

Neither do I want to keep having defenses that let us down.

Agree Bro our D aint to :hot:
Alls Im sayin Is Maybe Bob looked around and this is it.:P
Then again Maybe Not .:confused:

[Curly Bill]

Bob is obviously not going to make any rash decisions (I'd have already canned BV), and I can appreciate that. I do wonder though if even Bob might be ready to move in a different direction? I'm interested in seeing.

[olevetonahill]

Bob is obviously not going to make any rash decisions (I'd have already canned BV), and I can appreciate that. I do wonder though if even Bob might be ready to move in a different direction? I'm interested in seeing.

We are Bros.
But I trust Bob . If he thinks BV is the Best around I cant argue.
Like I said I aint Happy with the D either.

[badger]

Just wait for a coaching job to open for BV to go to. It's how you all got rid of Chuck Long :rolleyes:

[RedstickSooner]

I think if we asked him, Stoops would be the first to say that it's his fault. He's not a buck passing guy. And, I agree with him for several reasons -- it's his choice who he hires for his staff, and it's up to him whether or not he cans anyone on that staff. What's more, Stoops was hired for being a defensive genius, so if he continues to not give himself additional DC responsibilities, that's his fault. I mean, he wouldn't have to fire BV to shut some of us critics up. Even if he announced he was going to get more hands on that'd be a relief.

I can dig that he couldn't say that publicly (because it'd undermine BV's ability to coach) so doing it behind the scenes would be fine. However, it's been five years -- and clearly either he hasn't ever intervened and increased his own hand in the defense, or if he has, it hasn't helped.

The only failure which I really can't countenance is the failure of inaction. If we're going to suck, let's at least suck because we're trying to win. Sucking because we're trying not to lose (which is how our defense feels under BV) is totally lame, and very Whornish.

This isn't how things are supposed to be in Norman.

[Husker In Oklahoma]

I don't want to go back to the 90's either.



I'd love to go back to the 90's. :D

[badger]

I'd love to go back to the 90's. :D

http://www.sportshollywood.com/images/callahan.jpg
Hi, Husker in Oklahoma, I'm Bill Callahan. I want to go back to 90s too, when I was still a rising star of a coach - or I bet you'd like to return to 2002, when in January you were among the top teams in the country with a chance at another crystal ball. I liked that year too, because that was my last chance at a championship too... so I guess you could say we're alike in that regard.

[OUinFLA]

Blame him for what?
keeping us in the top 10 every year?
keeping us in the top 5 regularly?
winning only 80% of his games?
making us a proud football tradition again?

or for losing a game or two each year?
not many coaches out there go undefeated year after year after year after year.
in fact......... the last I remember was Bud W.

Boy, those were the days.
Us and Slippery Rock.
Most of y'all would of been happy back then.

[olevetonahill]

Ur older than me aint ya ?
I dont member the BW years ;)

[OUinFLA]

Ur older than me aint ya ?
I dont member the BW years ;)

you prolly didn't have a radio station near you in the old days. :D

[Widescreen]

Even if Stoops got involved in the defense, could it be that the current state of defense has passed him by? It's been 10 years since he was a DC. I'd like to see him bring in some kind of young hotshot with new ideas. I have no idea who that would be though.

[Collier11]

I dont blame Stoops for keeping BV around, BV has done a pretty damn good job over the years...some of you dont give him enough credit for that Natl title we won, the other two we played for, or the 5 conf titles. I think the problem that I have is that Bob nor BV have changed up the D much.

Weve played for 3 natl titles in 8 years and have a shot at another one this year, I can count on one hand the other programs that have had similiar success in the past two decades

FSU of the 90's
Neb of the 90's
Ohio State
USC
LSU

[olevetonahill]

you prolly didn't have a radio station near you in the old days. :D

Radio ? whats that ?:P

[soonershane22]

Blame him for what?
keeping us in the top 10 every year?
keeping us in the top 5 regularly?
winning only 80% of his games?
making us a proud football tradition again?

I don't think that anyone is saying that they are not proud of the team or what they have accomplished since the 90's. The thing that everyone is upset about is that we are doing the same things year in and year out. Nothing changes. The above stats are great and there are tons of other teams in the country that would love to have them, but if you are happy with just that year after year then why even play the games? They say it all the time, Oklahoma football is about championships. About winning. Well, the last 5 years or so we have taken care of business for the most part during the regular and then choked when it counted. Yeah, we have a bunch of Big 12 titles, but all against softer North opponents. When we come up against teams outside of the Big 12 North, we just can't cut it. I think that everyone is just tired of choking. We are tired of seeing the same soft defense week after week. The same run up the middle on 1st down and a pass 5 yards short on 3rd downs. Oklahoma football has always been about striving for more and to get better. We get the same "coach speak" after each game, but nothing changes. Winning 80% of your games is incredible, but when the 10% that you are losing are Bowls and games that you shouldn't...well, then that is a problem.

[hink4769]

that you are losing are Bowls and games that you shouldn't...well, then that is a problem.

You can make an argument that OU shouldn't lose any games, considering they usually only play 1-2 games a year against teams with comparable talent levels, but even if you have a 90% chance of winning every game, statistics say you only win 9 of them, even if you should win every one. If you're so bored with the way OU does the same thing every year, go root for an aggie school where you can go anywhere from 2-10 to 10-2 any given year.

[Curly Bill]

Telling another fan to go root for another team because they dare be critical is LAME!

[SbOrOiNaEnR]

Whoa...something just dawned on me. If for any reason, they ever make a movie about Bill Callahan (God knows why they would...just saying), they HAVE to get Kyle Chandler (Coach Eric Taylor on the TV version of Friday Night Lights) to play him.


http://www.sportshollywood.com/images/callahan.jpghttp://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/richard_deitsch/02/09/media.circus/p1_chandler.jpg

Am I right, or am I right? The resemblance is scary...

[StoopTroup]

The parity in Div I-A is getting tighter IMO.

Watched Tulsa tonight for the 2nd time this year.

They aren't as big in size...but they continue to be very creative on Offense.

The 4th quarter opened up nicely for them tonight.

UCF played them well the 1st half but you could tell they weren't going to hang with TU in the 4th.

Could TU beat OU?

Not a chance IMO...but...they'd give us a game for at least a half is my guess. They'd give anyone in the Country fits IMO.

Good to see Tulsa Folks come out tonight for them even though it was on TV and the weather was a little cool and windy.

Lots of kiddos there with Coaches and Families.

WTG Hills and Trees Folks!

ST

[DangTire]

Losing isn't bad. Giving up a million yards, and a ton of points, and looking like dog **** each and every time the defense takes the field is. If you don't mind looking like you haven't practiced in a month then you're as mediocre as Vulnerables. It's time he's shown the door. If Bobby can't see that or he keeps his buddy in a job he can't do then he's a part of the problem as well.

[StoopTroup]

It's time he's shown the door. If Bobby can't see that or he keeps his buddy in a job he can't do then he's a part of the problem as well.

Tonight or should we wait till Thursday or Friday?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Telling another fan to go root for another team because they dare be critical is LAME!

not to mention some of us root for OU because we went to college there ;)

[soonershane22]

I'm sorry, I just don't think that I am being a bad fan because I want my team to be better than they are or to play to their ability. I think that any fan wants that.

[MyT Oklahoma]

I agree and I also don't think that any of us are bad fans for wanting to see substantial improvement in the Sooner defense. In addition, I think that its Bob's problem whether or not any changes are made in his coaching staff. He's the man though and its up to him.

[BoonesFarmSooner]

Something has to be done... Our defense is beyond being labeled as inconsistent. It's marginally bad and there are either coaching break-downs or we are having problems in identifying and developing talent on that side of the ball.

[BornandBred]

Something has to be done... Our defense is beyond being labeled as inconsistent. It's marginally bad and there are either coaching break-downs or we are having problems in identifying and developing talent on that side of the ball.

Look at the age of the players we've got out there right now. Everyone on D is so young, it's no surprise we're inconsistent. We've been unlucky with injuries and early departures. How much better would we be with a senior year out of some of the guys that leave our squad? I think it's the nature of a top 10 football program to have NFL/$$$ hungry players. The best players play the most and get the most experience. Then, there is a huge drop off to the second team. Also, one of the things I've noticed is that we infrequently sub the 2's in during mop up on D, at least not as much as with the O. I think that subtracts from what depth we might be developing. But, who wants to lose the goose egg by subbing the D against some scrub school? Give these kids some more time and experience, and they'll be fine.

[Sooner Traveler]

To me, the problem with BV is he is singularly focused on the linebackers (I realize he is the LB position coach as well). Our D does not work well as a unit.

We have the Dline, LB's and secondary and it seems they are out of synch with what the others are doing.

I don't know if our D is too complicated for the intelligence we have on the field or if the D coaches aren't teaching it properly. We have 11 individuals playing their responsiblity (which is the way each play should start) but if there is one breakdown on defense or the offense does a good job of improvising (i.e. Colt, Shipley, etc..) we panic and start thinking about "MY assignment" instead of improvising on defense and just making the play.

I watched parts of the Arizona game on Saturday and noticed one big difference between AZ defense and OU defense - the Arizone defense played at 1000 MPH - I don't know if they had any blown assignments or technique breakdowns but I do know they had 11 men attacking the ball.

If we are going to make mistakes, please make them at full speed and not looking at your wristband trying to determine which gap was yours after the play is 20 yards downfield. Our best defensive players in the last 10 years played by instinct (Roy, Strait, Rocky, and many others). Either we are not recruiting instinctive players or we are turning them into robots in our system.

The analagy of playing not to lose is accurate as a unit - as individuals we are playing to "not make a mistake" instead of playing to stop the offense from moving at all costs - we should have 11 players saying it was my fault or what could I have done to stop that play instead of finger pointing and being happy because I played the correct gap on that touchdown.

If we were to play Tech this weekend, I would set the over/under on TT yards no lower than 650. OSU won't be that high as they will chew up more clock with 8 yard runs but we won't stop them either

[badger]

Tonight or should we wait till Thursday or Friday?

Let's make a pregame announcement, right after the team runs on the field on Saturday. David Boren will show a special pregame video highlighting the seven times we've lost in the past three years, complete with Bob Stoops yelling at refs between "highlights." Then, accompanied by Joe Castiglione, Boren will present a plague (I seriously typed that this early Monday morning when I clearly meant "plaque") to Stoops with his walking papers.

The Pride will play Boomer Sooner as many times in a loop as necessary as it takes for Bob Stoops to reach the exit, even if he throws a tirade, tantrum, or an orange on his way out. Balloons, crappy endzone fireworks that land on the north endzone fans (and then the smoke will hit the east upper deck afterward) and the Sooner Schooner running circles around the field will set the atmosphere quite well.

And then, we shall be coached by the next head coach of OU...
http://images-cdn01.associatedcontent.com/image/A1667/166756/300_166756.jpg
Remember me, guys? It's your ol' pal Fran Fran!

[sooner n houston]

Truely, who would you whiners suggest we replace Venables with?

He is one of the best in the business. We are not going to win every game, live with it!

[SouthFortySooner]

The only thing to make this scenario better, (or worser) would be to have the schooner turn over. :(

[Widescreen]

Lets get the guy from Auburn before Texas can. ;)

[badger]

The only thing to make this scenario better, (or worser) would be to have the schooner turn over. :(

Epilogue:

"And now, the refs will throw the ceremonial celebratory penalty flags in the Schooner's direction to decide the fate of the game..."

[BoonesFarmSooner]

Just off the top of my head, these guys have considerable experience in our defense: A. English, Adrian Taylor, G. McCoy, Granger (who is getting healthy), J. Beal, C. Bennett, Nic Harris, and Lendy Holmes.

Now, with our newcomers, I've been really impressed with Brian Jackson, Travis Lewis, and Frank Alexander. So where is the problem?

Keenan Clayton is at the other LB spot and has been in the OU system for awhile and had a full spring and fall at that position. Losing Reynolds hurts, but I'm looking around and trying to give Venables the benefit of the doubt here - but it isn't just this season.

West Va, USC, Boise State, Oregon, Colorado, Tech, UCLA, etc. from prior seasons.

[Oldnslo]

Yeah, I wish our Defense was stronger. Halfway into the season, I don't think you can reasonably say our breakdowns are because of the absence of Lofton or Reynolds.

1) How do you not recognize that Lofton could/would go pro. After all, he's only good enough to be starting in the NFL.

2) Reynolds has a pretty unfortunate history of injury. Why would you think this year would be different? This young man has already shown resolve to come back more than he should have had to and he's obviously got the heart of a lion. But... if I were a betting man, I'd have taken the under.

All that being said, there's more to being a fan than just giving one another high 5's after a TD and drinking after a win.

Coaches around the Big 12, and around the country, are talking about how difficult it is to defend against spread offenses. Maybe they're right. UCF looked like they had Tulsa's offense handled right up until the Hurricane whipped up a 3rd quarter to crush. We've seen plenty of OU's opponents handle the spread for drives, maybe quarters, but a breakdown here or there and *boom*, we score. But we moan when we have a breakdown against the spread and the other miserable bastards score.

So, yeah, I've got some issues with our defense. I sure don't like how we seem to often make superheroes out of quarterbacks who looked clay-footed against lesser teams. I don't like how clean the other qb's uniform is after a game against us. But I also don't know who rightfully shoulders this blame, and it's way too easy just to point to the top. Hell, I still think it's all the fault of Bobby Jack.

Serious question: what changes, if any, did we make this year in coaching and scheming special teams?

[Widescreen]

1) How do you not recognize that Lofton could/would go pro. After all, he's only good enough to be starting in the NFL.

2) Reynolds has a pretty unfortunate history of injury. Why would you think this year would be different? This young man has already shown resolve to come back more than he should have had to and he's obviously got the heart of a lion. But... if I were a betting man, I'd have taken the under.


I think this is my biggest problem with what's taken place. And I can only think of 2 possible scenarios:

1) They simply put all their eggs in the RR basket and didn't take the time in the spring and fall practice sessions to adequately get Crow ready to play.
2) They actually did spent the time with Crow and he's not very good and he's the best we had on the roster (talent issue).

Stoops has tried to say that they simply don't have enough hours to get these guys ready. However, with the way Crow looked completely lost out there, how much time could they have possibly spent with him unless he's just not too bright (I doubt this is the case).

[stoopified]

I blame Bob all the time;for winning 817% of his games winning the 2000 National title,winning FIVE conference titles.IT is QUITE OBVIOUS he knows NOTHING about coaching,running a coaching staff,or recruiting.He should be run out of Norman on a rail and relaced with .............

Hang in there Bob,eventually you WILL figure out how to win all your games. :D

After all,so many other coaches are winning more than you.Maybe Bob should hire some internet EXPERTS to help him out,I hear they have all the answers.

[ashley]

Does anyone here really not think Bob is not involved in the defense? What do you think he does all day? The fact is that we have two below average corners and the same with two backers. If you say just coach them up it shows you have never coached. Sometime they just don't get better but they are the best you've got.

[PalmBeachSooner1]

shut yer trap

It's an excellent question. Unless you are one of those that think Bob can NEVER make a mistake.

[cheezyq]

I blame Bob all the time;for winning 817% of his games winning the 2000 National title,winning FIVE conference titles.IT is QUITE OBVIOUS he knows NOTHING about coaching,running a coaching staff,or recruiting.He should be run out of Norman on a rail and relaced with .............

Hang in there Bob,eventually you WILL figure out how to win all your games. :D

After all,so many other coaches are winning more than you.Maybe Bob should hire some internet EXPERTS to help him out,I hear they have all the answers.

Soooo...you're saying that you're happy with what Bob has done so far, and that you couldn't care less if we ever win a championship again with him? This mentality sucks, and it's no different than the crap that we made fun of UT for when they were staring down a 5-year losing streak to their hated rival.....US.

Here's the reality that everyone seems to be ignoring - we ALL love Bob. We love what he's done to bring OU back from the depths of college mediocrity. We all appreciate what he's accomplished so far. But, largely because of his success and because of the success of this program in the past, we as fans and OU as an organization EXPECT TO WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS. Not just the conference variety either.

We aren't UT, where we love a coach because he gets us to 9-10 wins every year. We aren't OSU, where we would merely love a coach if could only he beat a particular hated team and had fancy hair. We are OU, the elite of all college football programs. We demand championships.

We sit here and proudly spout off all the statistics and other things that set OU apart from every other program in the country. Yet this argument above, and the arguments from almost every BV supporter contradict this very mindset. You guys are essentially saying, "hey, we're ok with mediocrity" or "hey, we've got an awesome offense...who needs a D?" Fortunately, the OU organization doesn't have that kind of mentality, or else Gary Gibbs would still be our coach.

Now, Bob gets a certain level of lee-way because of what he's accomplished, and that's completely reasonable. And even Brent Venables has received a certain level of lee-way because there are games where his defense looks brilliant. But we as loyal OU fans still have national championship expectations. And the formula for winning the national championship isn't a secret. A MAJOR part of that formula is playing CONSISTENT, SOLID DEFENSE. While BV has had his good moments, the LAST thing we can call him is consistent.

I understand that some of you may be just peachy with OU making the BCS and winning the Fiesta Bowl, or just winning a Big 12 championship. That's your prerogative. However I can't stand it when, at the end of the year, there is another team out there that gets to say "Hey, we're better than OU". I know we can't win it every year, so I'm not being unreasonable. CFB goes in cycles because of graduation and early NFL entries. But if there is something within Bob's control that is keeping us from being a championship-caliber team, then it plain just needs to be fixed.

I love our offense. But there's no way we can expect to be labeled the best team in the country if we routinely give up 500+ yards, especially to teams that likely won't even be bowl eligible.

[SoonerFanInAustin]

Amen Cheezy....after reading several quotes before yours, I was thinking the same thing...

For those who think we don't love Bob is crazy. I would wonder if some thoughts would be different if our Offense wasn't as good as they are. Luckily we can score 50 pts a game. If they didn't, I wonder if that would change some people's opinion.

I agree with a lot that has already been said, it is just sad to see the defense get tore up each week. You may not think it will happen, but if one team comes out and slows down are O or keeps the ball from us, we will need a D to step up to the plate. Right now, I don't see that happening.

I'm a very loyal Sooner fan, but right now, if we somehow made it to the Championship game, we may be in trouble. It will be very interesting against Tech and OSU. Again, our Offense better score every damn time, because right now, it looks like those two teams will.

[hink4769]

Here's the reality that everyone seems to be ignoring - we ALL love Bob. We love what he's done to bring OU back from the depths of college mediocrity. We all appreciate what he's accomplished so far. But, largely because of his success and because of the success of this program in the past, we as fans and OU as an organization EXPECT TO WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS. Not just the conference variety either.

We aren't UT, where we love a coach because he gets us to 9-10 wins every year. We aren't OSU, where we would merely love a coach if could only he beat a particular hated team and had fancy hair. We are OU, the elite of all college football programs. We demand championships.


And what do you propose doing if Bob doesn't win a championship in say the next 5 years. Fire him? After all you demand championships. If you don't back up your demands with some threat if they aren't met, then you just sound like some spoiled 5 year old threatening to make his parents sorry when they didn't give him a cookie. I'm not saying people shouldn't want a better defense, but the amount of complaining going by the fans of a team that is 7-1, coming off back-to-back conference titles, is just totally unreasonable in my opinion.

[T_Boner]

I'm a huge Stoops fan, but isn't he the Special Teams coach???

[BornandBred]

Stoops is clearly a victim of his own production. Nearly every year he seems to exceed realistic expectations and so we create these ridiculous fantastic ideas about national championships every year. In reality Stoops is one of the top 5 coaches in the league. Is he human? Yes. Does he make mistakes? Of course. Expecting perfection is asinine.

And on the note about him getting more involved in the D, I believe he is taking time with the CB's every practice. I remember reading about that when we were all raving about B. Jackson's play.

[OUinFLA]

ahhhhh......"Feed The Monster"

[Hornlaw]

Lets get the guy from Auburn before Texas can.

hayyyyy....... no poaching. Go find your own farm team.

[hink4769]

Stoops is clearly a victim of his own production. Nearly every year he seems to exceed realistic expectations and so we create these ridiculous fantastic ideas about national championships every year. In reality Stoops is one of the top 5 coaches in the league. Is he human? Yes. Does he make mistakes? Of course. Expecting perfection is asinine.

I would say that he is more a victim of fans that have grown up and been conditioned to believe that 10-2 is an average season.

[BornandBred]

I would say that he is more a victim of fans that have grown up and been conditioned to believe that 10-2 is an average season.

Oh how easily we forget the 90's.

[cvsooner]

Or, even the early 70s. The '71 Sooners, as good as they were, were not exactly a defensive powerhouse...and the '75 national championship team gave up 20 points to Colorado and it would've been a tie 'cept Colorado missed an extra point, lost to Kansas, 23-3 (a 20-point loss, mind you), and so on and so on.

This isn't a bad defense; it's about typical for college football, apparently, this season. It can be better and it has played better. Maddeningly, yes, it's inconsistent and seems to be struggling--partly I think due to the fact it's patched together and it's pretty young.

That said, I would like to see Venables take some seminars or something on improving the college defense. Couldn't hurt...

[JLEW1818]

Anybody got any records of head coaching jobs for BV, just curious.

[tommieharris91]

I blame Bob Stoops for everything. It's more fun than blaming George W. Bush.

[The Maestro]

So by some people’s standard, if I date two really ugly girls (Schnelly and Blake) and then end up with a super model (Stoops) who is awesome for a few years and then starts to have obvious flaws that need and can be fixed quite easily, I should just accept those fixable flaws because I used to have much worse?

Sorry. People should always be trying to get better. The defense at OU included. Heck, some of Blake’s defenses looked better than this. Not even his inept offenses were so bad that texas scored 45 on OU…or gave up 260 yards to a receiver from Kansas…or had KSU’s QB throw for 487 yards and would have been more if Kevin Wilson had not been calling dive plays for both teams in the second half!  OR had that all happen in three consecutive weeks.

We all believe 100% that Stoops is the man to lead this program. But to not question the way the defense is playing right now is really, REALLY naïve.

Oh, and who thought before the season that Tech and OSU would have better defenses than OU? Well, it sure appears they do at this point.

[St. Louis Sooner]

BV's problems are not that he can't handle the spread offenses, it's bigger than that; it's because O-coordinators have figured him out; they know how to attack his schemes, and they know how he thinks & teaches his kids; it all became obvious to me when our D gave up over 500 yards to one of the worst big12 teams on oct. 25;

[Collier11]

Dont you think if this was the case Stoops would and probably has sat in on the Defensive meetings and pointed out some problems...College Football has changed, in almost every game our defense has played pretty damn well take away about 3 or 4 really big plays. Those big plays can be eliminated by avoiding mental mistakes more than schematic mistakes

[cheezyq]

And what do you propose doing if Bob doesn't win a championship in say the next 5 years. Fire him? After all you demand championships. If you don't back up your demands with some threat if they aren't met, then you just sound like some spoiled 5 year old threatening to make his parents sorry when they didn't give him a cookie. I'm not saying people shouldn't want a better defense, but the amount of complaining going by the fans of a team that is 7-1, coming off back-to-back conference titles, is just totally unreasonable in my opinion.

If you had paid attention you would have seen that my point is that Bob needs to adjust the things he can control to put us in a better position to get a championship. You can't help injuries and attrition on your staff, players graduating/leaving for NFL. BUT, you CAN fix a defense that sucks when you have the measure of talent that we supposedly have.

[cvsooner]

So by some people’s standard, if I date two really ugly girls (Schnelly and Blake) and then end up with a super model (Stoops) who is awesome for a few years and then starts to have obvious flaws that need and can be fixed quite easily, I should just accept those fixable flaws because I used to have much worse?

Well, that sounds like a marriage.


Heck, some of Blake’s defenses looked better than this. Not even his inept offenses were so bad that texas scored 45 on OU…or gave up 260 yards to a receiver from Kansas…or had KSU’s QB throw for 487 yards and would have been more if Kevin Wilson had not been calling dive plays for both teams in the second half!  OR had that all happen in three consecutive weeks.

But the question that begs to be asked is...what would Blake's defenses have done against these offenses? I won't disagree and say that changes aren't warranted, but it's not necessarily a completely valid comparison. It's along the lines of those "what was the best team ever" questions that come up time and again.

[Collier11]

If you had paid attention you would have seen that my point is that Bob needs to adjust the things he can control to put us in a better position to get a championship. You can't help injuries and attrition on your staff, players graduating/leaving for NFL. BUT, you CAN fix a defense that sucks when you have the measure of talent that we supposedly have.

You do realize that our only loss this yr is to the #1 team in the nation and the game wasnt decided until the final 4 minutes or else we would be #1 and on our way to another Big 12 title and a possible natl title which we may still play for

[Sooner24]

Radio ? whats that ?:P



http://blog.wired.com/geekdad/crystalSet-1.jpg

[cvsooner]

BV's problems are not that he can't handle the spread offenses, it's bigger than that; it's because O-coordinators have figured him out; they know how to attack his schemes, and they know how he thinks & teaches his kids; it all became obvious to me when our D gave up over 500 yards to one of the worst big12 teams on oct. 25;

I think you're as close to actuality as anybody here. What I saw on Saturday was almost too-aggressive playiing...gambling for the turnovers (and got five) but missing a few that turned into big plays. And poor tackling, besides.

What I see as the weakness here is that the idea of blitzing has gotten crazy. It puts way too much pressure on successful coverage, or at least superb tackling in the secondary. Somehow the front four (or five) has to generate the pressure against these offenses. One of the telling comments I read after the Big 12 championship was Daniel grumbling at his line about not picking up the blitz...and then being informed that we weren't blitzing. Which was pretty much the case.

I don't think the current defense is that far off from being a pretty decent defense. Dominating? Probably not. But certainly very solid, and capable of stopping anybody when necessary. The second half looked a lot better than the first half did. The question comes up as to why adjustments were so necessary, but all I remember reading beforehand was how KSU would bring a good running game and then Freeman was throwing like crazy. If he was a more accurate passer, we'd have been in deeper doo-doo.

The defense to me is just weak enough that compounded with poor special teams play can be a killer. So far it's really hurt us once. We could be living on borrowed time, to use the cliche. Maybe we get it fixed. Maybe not. At least we have two respectable opponents to learn on for the next two weeks, followed by a bye. We're gonna need it.

[wishbonesooner]

BOB Stoops himself said that OU fans should expect him to win national championships. I was there the day he said it. He has said that winning championships is what every Sooner fan SHOULD expect. I understand that we are young on defense, were we young when USC torched us for 55 points? Were we young when Boise drove down the field to score on us? How about when Oregon went down the field like we weren't even there( sure, they shouldn't have had the ball, but still we could do nothing to stop them). This excuse about being young is getting rather lame for a staff that tells us to expect national championships.

[hink4769]

If you had paid attention you would have seen that my point is that Bob needs to adjust the things he can control to put us in a better position to get a championship. You can't help injuries and attrition on your staff, players graduating/leaving for NFL. BUT, you CAN fix a defense that sucks when you have the measure of talent that we supposedly have.

If you had paid attention to my post you would have seen that my issue was not with you pointing out the defensive ineptitude this year, but was in fact with the whole "we demand championships, and not the conference variety" pomp and circumastance in your original post. Its one thing to say, "The defense could be better, but I'm happy with the team overall," versus being a disgrutled fan who is unhappy with the current state of the team and thinks the coaching staff is doing an inadequate job (which is the vibe I got from your original post).

[Piware]

Losing isn't bad. Giving up a million yards, and a ton of points, and looking like dog **** each and every time the defense takes the field is. If you don't mind looking like you haven't practiced in a month then you're as mediocre as Vulnerables. It's time he's shown the door. If Bobby can't see that or he keeps his buddy in a job he can't do then he's a part of the problem as well.

The flip side of that equation is holding the opponent to 150 yards, a field goal and losing a la Auburn.

[RedstickSooner]

Truely, who would you whiners suggest we replace Venables with?

He is one of the best in the business. We are not going to win every game, live with it!

Bob Stoops.

I think it's kinda funny that you've got enough self-doubt about your position that you're calling us names. Whiners? Really? Weak sauce, dude.

I don't ask that we win every game we play -- but I do ask that our coaches "win" by putting superior units on the field at least 60 percent of the time. Vulnerables has managed to field superior defenses 1 year out of 5 since he's been calling the shots on defense.

That's an F in anybody's book.

[MamaMia]

Would you all please be so kind as to try and explain to me why anyone would think its Bobs fault? Thanks. :)

[RedstickSooner]

You do realize that our only loss this yr is to the #1 team in the nation and the game wasnt decided until the final 4 minutes or else we would be #1 and on our way to another Big 12 title and a possible natl title which we may still play for

Well, I *know* we hit that stupid iceburg, but we haven't sunk -- so *clearly* there's no need to worry!

[RedstickSooner]

Would you all please be so kind as to try and explain to me why anyone would think its Bobs fault? Thanks. :)

Already did, Mama, back on the first page. I said there were a couple reasons: First, I said that if you asked *him* he'd probably say it was his fault, as he's not one to pass the buck. As head coach, it's like being captain of a ship -- doesn't matter *if* it's your fault; it's always your fault.

And, more specifically in his case, he's responsible because he chooses the staff. If there's a coaching problem from someone like Vulnerables, it's Stoops' decision to fire or not fire Vulnerables. So Stoops bears that responsibility.

The fact that someone is at fault doesn't mean you say they set out to do something wrong -- it means, in this instance, that Bob is head coach. He's the Big Cheese, and as Big Cheese, he bears both ultimate power, and ultimate responsibility.

[Curly Bill]

My new answer to every complaint about anything in life is going to be to say:

At least it's not the 90's!

or how about this varient: Would you rather go back to Boo Blake?

Yes sir/mam I'm going to use this to counter every complaint I hear, whether it's about football, the economy, traffic, politics, you name it. By Gawd! I'm going to put these complainers in their places!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Widescreen]

My new answer to every complaint about anything in life is going to be to say:

At least it's not the 90's!

or how about this varient: Would you rather go back to Boo Blake?

Yes sir/mam I'm going to use this to counter every complaint I hear, whether it's about football, the economy, traffic, politics, you name it. By Gawd! I'm going to put these complainers in their places!!!

The 2nd alternative is to challenge them to go apply for a coaching job at OU since they know so much. :rolleyes:

[RedstickSooner]

The 2nd alternative is to challenge them to go apply for a coaching job at OU since they know so much. :rolleyes:

You're both wrong. Duh.

You're supposed to tell them to root for another team :)

[Curly Bill]

You're both wrong. Duh.

You're supposed to tell them to root for another team :)

That is another classic.

...and don't forget to throw in there: "we don't need bandwagon fans like you anyway." :D

[jdsooner]

We are becoming spoiled, crybaby fans that expect perfection.
It isn't just the defense; it is also the kicking game.
Do you think that we would be criticizing Venables if Lofton did not go pro? I doubt it. We would have beaten Texas and be number 1 right now.

[Curly Bill]

We are becoming spoiled, crybaby fans that expect perfection.
It isn't just the defense; it is also the kicking game.
Do you think that we would be criticizing Venables if Lofton did not go pro? I doubt it. We would have beaten Texas and be number 1 right now.

Yes we would, look back to last years defensive meltdowns when Lofton was still here.

The players may change, but one thing that has stayed constant is that our defense under Venables has underachieved.

[jdsooner]

I BLAME BOB!!

I blame Bob for restoring OU to glory.
I blame Bob for a national championship.
I blame Bob for 104 wins against 23 losses.
I blame Bob for 5 Big 12 Championships.
I blame Bob for the longest home winning streak.

Yeah, let's fire Brent and get rid of Bob.
Get real. Get lost. Spoiled crybabies.

[JLEW1818]

I blame Obama for all my problems

[Curly Bill]

Oh yeah I forgot the other most fabulous counter to all complaints: Just call them crybabies, and you know...say something about being spoiled and stuff. :D

[Curly Bill]

I BLAME BOB!!

I blame Bob for restoring OU to glory.
I blame Bob for a national championship.
I blame Bob for 104 wins against 23 losses.
I blame Bob for 5 Big 12 Championships.
I blame Bob for the longest home winning streak.

Yeah, let's fire Brent and get rid of Bob.
Get real. Get lost. Spoiled crybabies.

Someone take your lunch money from you today?

[Curly Bill]

I blame Obama for all my problems

At least he's not Boo Blake! :D

ba-dum crash!!!! :D :D

I'm here all week folks! :)

[RedstickSooner]

Really, the thing that still pisses me off, even five years later, is that when Mike took the new job, he left before our bowl game. I know that's the norm, but it *shouldn't* be. I sincerely believe we would've won if he hadn't left for his new gig 'til after the Sugar Bowl. (And that half-assed stuff where he sorta left, then flew back a few days before the game to completely change the defensive scheme BV had put in, just didn't cut it. Clearly.)

I guess there's no point in discussing it any more. I really had thought things had progressed to the point where anyone who actually watches us play could see that our defense wasn't, and hadn't been, up to snuff for quite some time... But clearly some folks really feel that BV is superb, and our defensive woes are due to everything in the universe *except* for Vulnerables.

[Curly Bill]

Really, the thing that still pisses me off, even five years later, is that when Mike took the new job, he left before our bowl game. I know that's the norm, but it *shouldn't* be. I sincerely believe we would've won if he hadn't left for his new gig 'til after the Sugar Bowl. (And that half-assed stuff where he sorta left, then flew back a few days before the game to completely change the defensive scheme BV had put in, just didn't cut it. Clearly.)

I guess there's no point in discussing it any more. I really had thought things had progressed to the point where anyone who actually watches us play could see that our defense wasn't, and hadn't been, up to snuff for quite some time... But clearly some folks really feel that BV is superb, and our defensive woes are due to everything in the universe *except* for Vulnerables.

Some peeps can't see their *** for their crimson shades.






disclaimer: I love me some OU football, I think Bob is doing a fine job and should stay as long as he wants, but seriously: is our defense ever going to improve with BV? Has it since he's taken over? That's all I, and others, are saying. Why do we have to settle for half-*** when we're OU? Get a guy in here that can get this defense breathing fire again and lets go win #8, or at least have a realistic shot at it.

[hink4769]

disclaimer: I love me some OU football, I think Bob is doing a fine job and should stay as long as he wants, but seriously: is our defense ever going to improve with BV? Has it since he's taken over? That's all I, and others, are saying. Why do we have to settle for half-*** when we're OU? Get a guy in here that can get this defense breathing fire again and lets go win #8, or at least have a realistic shot at it.


I don't think Bob Stoops is going to fire BV unless we start losing 4-5 games a year. I'm not coming on here defending BV, and I agree that the defense hasn't been up to snuff the last couple years, but I'm still happy with the way the team has performed, I would say that we do have a realistic shot at winning at NC sometime soon (I don't think there are any cleanly run programs *cough* USC *cough* that are better than we are). I just get tired of the constant bitching when the team is 7-1, and I don't think the finger for whats wrong with the program should ever be pointed at Bob Stoops. I think he's earned the right to run it as he sees fit with people constantly second guessing him.

[Sooner Stew]

We are #4 in the polls and we don't have a realistic shot at it? I still believe that the Sooners still have something to play for and I just think in the next coming weeks that BV will get OUr defense ready to play...they still have a chance(both coaches and players) to prove that they can have a respectful performance. :D

[Collier11]

I think he's earned the right to run it as he sees fit with people constantly second guessing him.

This is all you needed to say

[Curly Bill]

I don't think Bob Stoops is going to fire BV unless we start losing 4-5 games a year. I'm not coming on here defending BV, and I agree that the defense hasn't been up to snuff the last couple years, but I'm still happy with the way the team has performed, I would say that we do have a realistic shot at winning at NC sometime soon (I don't think there are any cleanly run programs *cough* USC *cough* that are better than we are). I just get tired of the constant bitching when the team is 7-1, and I don't think the finger for whats wrong with the program should ever be pointed at Bob Stoops. I think he's earned the right to run it as he sees fit with people constantly second guessing him.

He gets paid a lot of money, so if people want to second guess him I say they've paid for the priviledge. I don't think he'll ever fire BV either...and I'm not upset that we're 7-1, I'm upset at the way that one loss happened, in that Texas kept exploiting our defensive scheme and we never adjusted. A quality DC should have seen what was happening and took steps to try and stop it, BV seemingly never did.

[hink4769]

I'm upset at the way that one loss happened, in that Texas kept exploiting our defensive scheme and we never adjusted. A quality DC should have seen what was happening and took steps to try and stop it, BV seemingly never did.

(Obligatory Complainer Counter)
Well if you know so much maybe you should apply to be defensive coordinator!

[JLEW1818]

We don't know how to put the nail in the coffin anymore....

[JLEW1818]

(Obligatory Complainer Counter)
Well if you know so much maybe you should apply to be defensive coordinator!

lol. I think a lot of people on this board could keep opposing UN-RANKED teams under 550 freaking yards!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sooner Stew]

Amen

[Curly Bill]

(Obligatory Complainer Counter)
Well if you know so much maybe you should apply to be defensive coordinator!

Apparently you didn't read earlier in this thread where we mocked posts like this. Good job though nOOb. :rolleyes:


...and I've coached FB for a long time, I'm not so sure that I seriously couldn't do better.

[JLEW1818]

Like I said a few weeks ago, Kevin Wilson could do just as good as BV, on defense.

[Curly Bill]

lol. I think a lot of people on this board could keep opposing UN-RANKED teams under 550 freaking yards!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Oh ya think so do ya? Maybe you should be the defensive coordinator Mr. Football Know-It-All! :D

[snp]

Bob Stoops.

I think it's kinda funny that you've got enough self-doubt about your position that you're calling us names. Whiners? Really? Weak sauce, dude.

I don't ask that we win every game we play -- but I do ask that our coaches "win" by putting superior units on the field at least 60 percent of the time. Vulnerables has managed to field superior defenses 1 year out of 5 since he's been calling the shots on defense.

That's an F in anybody's book.

Venables has won a conference championship 75% of the time as a DC. If we don't win the Big 12 this year then it'll be 60%. He wins 80% of the games. What were you looking for exactly?

Since you ignored me the last time I posted this:


Really?

National/Conference ranking

Scoring Defense:

2004: 11/1
2005: 37/4
2006: 19/1
2007: 19/2

Total Defense:

2004: 13/1
2005: 13/3
2006: 16/1
2007: 26/2

[hink4769]

Apparently you didn't read earlier in this thread where we mocked posts like this. Good job though nOOb. :rolleyes:


...and I've coached FB for a long time, I'm not so sure that I seriously couldn't do better.

I did read them, thats why I posted that one, as a joke.

[Curly Bill]

Venables has won a conference championship 75% of the time as a DC. If we don't win the Big 12 this year then it'll be 60%. He wins 80% of the games. What were you looking for exactly?

Since you ignored me the last time I posted this:

I'm thinking that some others had something to do with us winning these too. Like the offense and such. In fact more to do with our winning at these impressive rates then BV has been responsible for.

[JLEW1818]

Oh ya think so do ya? Maybe you should be the defensive coordinator Mr. Football Know-It-All! :D

hehe

[wishbonesooner]

So honestly, can you tell me you look forward to OSU fans rubbing your nose in their orange banners after we play in Stillwater? What chances do you give Venables finding a way to stop their offense? Or Tech for that matter? We haven't even played the high powered offenses on our schedule yet. Maybe BV is holding back? I sure hope so.

[birddog]

We haven't even played the high powered offenses on our schedule yet. Maybe BV is holding back? I sure hope so.


heh. now that is funny.

[JLEW1818]

I don't look forward to playing Tech or Oklahoma state defensive wise. I think we should onside kick every time.

[BoonesFarmSooner]

So does it not matter to you BV aplogists that Texas Tech and OSU have better defenses than OU at this point?

With our success and the ability to attract 4* and 5* talent, are we not doing a good enough job at evaluating talent? If it isn't BV's defensive schemes, then it has to be something. At OU, with our past success we have a built-in advantage in recruiting and obviously we are missing the boat somewhere...

Do the epic meltdowns against USC, Oregon, UCLA, Boise State, Tech, West Virginia, etc. not raise any red flags?

[badger]

So does it not matter to you BV aplogists that Texas Tech and OSU have better defenses than OU at this point?

Nope, it really doesn't (and I'm not a BV apologist, I just don't think he should be fired or let go, or run off, or whatever it is you all say he needs to do).

It doesn't bother me because we haven't played either OSU or Tech yet - and wow, those non-conference opponents would make any defense look good! Until we have a head-to-head matchup, we really can't compare here.

Also, even if it is true that they only allow 100 yards against Sisters of the Blind University and we allowed Cinci and TCU to score a few more points that we would have wanted, it doesn't bother me because we are winning. My favorite NBA team drafted a player named Glenn Robinson first overall back in the 90s. A great scorer that played no defense. What difference does it make that you score 20 ppg if you give up 25 ppg on defense? Well, if the defense gives up less points than our highly capable offense scores, then we are looking at a lot of winning - something my NBA team sadly did not do in those early G-Rob years.

Stats schmatz. I want to see how those D's do against our offense, which has the best quarterback, arguably the best blocking and TD tight end and a solid core group of receivers - not to mention a huge O-line.

[BoonesFarmSooner]

It doesn't bother me because we haven't played either OSU or Tech yet - and wow, those non-conference opponents would make any defense look good! Until we have a head-to-head matchup, we really can't compare here.



I'm not going off of stats. I am looking at how our defense played against Texas and Kansas in the past few weeks and then watching Tech put up a much more solid showing against Kansas IN Lawrence than we did at home. And OSU looking better against Texas IN austin than we did on a neutral site.

[badger]

I'm not going off of stats. I am looking at how our defense played against Texas and Kansas in the past few weeks and then watching Tech put up a much more solid showing against Kansas IN Lawrence than we did at home. And OSU looking better against Texas IN austin than we did on a neutral site.

I would still argue that different circumstances lead to different outcomes and it has absolutely no bearing on how they will fare against us. I would rather beat Tech and OSU than... um.... "put up a more solid showing against Kansas" and "look better against Texas."

They have a better D against other teams? Fine, but we're still going to win against them and that's all that matters to me.

[Collier11]

matchups my friend, every team matches up differently

[NormanPride]

How is OSU's D better than ours? We stopped Texas more than they did. Texas had more possessions against us, though.

[TUSooner]

I would still argue that different circumstances lead to different outcomes and it has absolutely no bearing on how they will fare against us. I would rather beat Tech and OSU than... um.... "put up a more solid showing against Kansas" and "look better against Texas."

They have a better D against other teams? Fine, but we're still going to win against them and that's all that matters to me.

In a sense, winning means our D is "good enough" to keep the other guys from scoring more than we score. The problem is that it takes more than a flashy O to win campionships and beat good, well-balanced teams. I'm tellin ya, we need to hope and pray that the O-line keeps taking care of Sammy, or we won;t just lose, we'll get blown out.
Sincerely,
Mr. Sunshine

[SoonerGrad2003]

shut yer trap

I think it is a totally valid question. I know it is just a snapshot and not a full performance review, but just look at what has happened recently with the Dallas Cowboys. Their defense was lackluster, so Wade Phillips took the defensive play calling away from defensive coordinator Brian Stewart. Their defense looked totally different against Tampa Bay with Phillips calling the shots - it was much more in attack mode.

Maybe it is time Stoops took over the defense.

[The Maestro]

How is OSU's D better than ours?

Texas scored 7 second half points at home vs. OSU.

They also did the unthinkable (to us, at least) and freaking hit Colt when he ran, knocking the ball out and forcing a key turnover.

Like us, they refuse and it boggles the mind why everyone does, to cover Shipley or hit him at the line of scrimmage to force him off his route a bit. That little bit could throw him and his butt buddy off.

That's how.

[BoonesFarmSooner]

They have a better D against other teams? Fine, but we're still going to win against them and that's all that matters to me.


Unfortunately, with the BCS and the fight to get to the #2 spot, winning isn't the only thing we need to be concerned about. If Penn State, Bama, and OU all end the season with one loss, the voters are going to look at each team in detail.

When we are giving up 600 yards of offense to teams that aren't all that good, that will raise some issues on whether we deserve a spot in the National Championship game.

[Jdog]

When do you blame Stoops for Special teams play.

Responsible for loss of at least 7 points against Texas.
3 against TCU
and 14 to KSU? (touched punt and return). (Not totally offset with our return team).

Two thirds of our teams preformance is awfully close to Blake standards (but not there yet) and yet we're #4. Guess we'll see how bad it really is when we play Tech and OSUE.

[hink4769]

The worst part is people are still going to be bitching after we beat Tech and OSU

[Collier11]

What people dont realize is that our ST cost us the UT game, now our D...we went down and scored to go up 11, had all the momentum on Off and Def, and we give up a TD return on the kickoff. If we stop that and get the Def stop, we may roll them

[The Maestro]

What people dont realize is that our ST cost us the UT game, now our D...we went down and scored to go up 11, had all the momentum on Off and Def, and we give up a TD return on the kickoff. If we stop that and get the Def stop, we may roll them

Texas scored a touchdown on the next drive after every one of our touchdowns.

One was special teams.

Four were defense.

You are wrong.

Did we ever stop them in the second half?

[NormanPride]

Texas scored 7 second half points at home vs. OSU.

They also did the unthinkable (to us, at least) and freaking hit Colt when he ran, knocking the ball out and forcing a key turnover.

Like us, they refuse and it boggles the mind why everyone does, to cover Shipley or hit him at the line of scrimmage to force him off his route a bit. That little bit could throw him and his butt buddy off.

That's how.

Maybe we would have held Texas as well if Colt's two fumbles caused by big hits hadn't bounced right back into his hands. Maybe the stats would have been better if our interception hadn't been called back on a crap call.

Texas had four possessions in the second half. Two were turnovers, and one they ran the ball into the line on the Poke 3 yard line to run down the clock and pin the pokes deep. Texas punted one whole time in the entire game, was never held to a field goal, and if the luck hadn't been on the pokes side when it was, they would have kept on scoring.

[The Maestro]

They are called scoreboards. Not luck boards or maybe boards. Texas scored 7. OSU's defense did their job.

[NormanPride]

:rolleyes:

KSU has the best defense in the Big 12 by your logic.

[Collier11]

Texas scored a touchdown on the next drive after every one of our touchdowns.

One was special teams.

Four were defense.

You are wrong.

Did we ever stop them in the second half?

my point was that we had all the momentum and had played Great D up to that point and it seemed to go down hill from there and of course the RR injury. It could have cost us the game, momentum is huge in football

[JLEW1818]

muffed punt against usc- example.

Jordan Shipley was a playmaker

[boomermagic]

The worst part is people are still going to be bitching after we beat Tech and OSU


If that happens most people will not be bitching because they won't have anything to bitch about.. i will not count us out we could possibly win both of those games..

[JLEW1818]

I think we can beat both of them, either by scoring a ton of points, or a miracle on defense.

[hink4769]

If that happens most people will not be bitching because they won't have anything to bitch about.. i will not count us out we could possibly win both of those games..

If Tech and OSU score over 35 points, mark my words, there will be complaining, whether we win or not.

[DangTire]

If Tech and OSU score over 35 points, mark my words, there will be complaining, whether we win or not.

And that complaint will be completely warranted. In case you haven't noticed over the last few years track meet teams don't fare to well over the long haul. A good defense is imperative to keep from getting bent over and looking like you haven't bothered holding practice since spring ball.

[DangTire]

I think we can beat both of them, either by scoring a ton of points, or a miracle on defense.

I would like to hope for a miracle on defense but considering the current situation, that ain't gonna happen. If the defenses for Tech and OSU come out to play it could be embarrassing.

[badger]

Unfortunately, with the BCS and the fight to get to the #2 spot, winning isn't the only thing we need to be concerned about. If Penn State, Bama, and OU all end the season with one loss, the voters are going to look at each team in detail.

When we are giving up 600 yards of offense to teams that aren't all that good, that will raise some issues on whether we deserve a spot in the National Championship game.

Yes, because beating a highly ranked Tech team and OSU team will not be enough in voter's minds about the strength of Oklahoma's team.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[The Maestro]

Yes, because beating a highly ranked Tech team and OSU team will not be enough in voter's minds about the strength of Oklahoma's team.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

What if Florida beats Alabama in the SEC title game and also has one loss?

[hink4769]

And that complaint will be completely warranted. In case you haven't noticed over the last few years track meet teams don't fare to well over the long haul. A good defense is imperative to keep from getting bent over and looking like you haven't bothered holding practice since spring ball.

If we beat Tech and OSU (assuming we take care of business against crappy Nebraska, and ultra-ultra-ultra crappy aTm), that means we'll be 11-1, which would be a better regular season record than the last two years which weren't too shabby either. If thats not faring well over the long haul, I don't know what is. With that kind of three year record, no complaints against the head coach will be warranted.

[MyT Oklahoma]

As long as this is a free country.. opinions and complaints will always be in order. I love Stoops but I don't resent the criticism of our defense. No one walks on water including Bob.

[StoopTroup]

I would like to hope for a miracle on defense but considering the current situation, that ain't gonna happen. If the defenses for Tech and OSU come out to play it could be embarrassing.

That must have been a miracle last week then.

k-state's QB is a Pro prospect.

The guy is 6'6" and 250 lbs. He's broke records at ksu. He had a good day against us. He didn't have the day Colt McCoy had against us as texas is a better team than k-state.

The loss in the RRSO wasn't easy to take...

This year's Sooner Squad is tOUgher than some of you give them credit IMO.

If I have to say this 1000 times more...I will.

The Big XII is loaded with good QBs this year. We lost our MLB / Leader on this years Defense. We hopefully will recover. The 2nd half of last weeks game gives me hope that we will get better. ksu was held to 7 points in that half.

The next two games are against opponents we should handle better than k-state.

I'm looking forward to watching the Defense improve because we have two tough games ahead of us after the TAMU game in College Station.

Buck up Camper...maybe yOU'll get your miracle.

[boomermagic]

If we beat Tech and OSU (assuming we take care of business against crappy Nebraska, and ultra-ultra-ultra crappy aTm), that means we'll be 11-1, which would be a better regular season record than the last two years which weren't too shabby either. If thats not faring well over the long haul, I don't know what is. With that kind of three year record, no complaints against the head coach will be warranted.


No matter how many points our defense gives up this season I won't complain about an 11-1 record and no one else should either.. I'm not saying we should just ignore the fact that our defense is giving up a bunch of points.. There is nothing wrong with discussing it on the board IMO but this FIRE BV etc. is uncalled for at this point.. The offenses we are playing have a lot to do with it IMO.. Do we need to improve ? Sure we do and I hope we hurry..

[dmack13]

wow...i've been reading and watching you guys comment on the state of OUR program and i share a lot of the same issues. (if you didn't notice from the tag, this is damian mackey...2000 NC and the glue to the receiver core before injury) it really hurts my feelings (and ima man...im 28...lol) to see the crimson and cream go on the field and get embarrassed week in and week out from a physical stand point. i hate to say it, but watch our games, then watch OSU, UT, even Tech or a UK, and you'll see guys flying around on defense trying to HIT someone...we "grapple" and ankle bite the opposition and hope they wanna quit becuase we can score. and from 1st hand experience, i can tell you that the other team can feel that, and everyone knows college football is all about momentum, and everytime they hit us and we fall a little backwards, they wanna hit us a little harder...and that's the way the KSU's and colorados and Tech's and yep...UT's can beat us now. OU USED to hit you in the mouth harder than you could hit them and by the 3rd quarter the other team would quit...i don't see that anymore. i see linemen tryn to be "sexy" instead of nasty. i see receivers who won't block down field (that's how you get the LONG running plays). i see coaches go out and recruit the best talent in the country and get too scared to line up on defense and say...'my players are better than yours, so we're gonna bump ur receivers and blitz your qb and allow our safeties to ball hawk the field...instead we employ a vanilla (ancient) zone blitz scheme that the "spread" was designed to destroy...DUH...

just my thoughts..

boomer
'not sooner born...but i'll damn sure be sooner dead!!!'

[The Maestro]

wow...i've been reading and watching you guys comment on the state of OUR program and i share a lot of the same issues. (if you didn't notice from the tag, this is damian mackey...2000 NC and the glue to the receiver core before injury) it really hurts my feelings (and ima man...im 28...lol) to see the crimson and cream go on the field and get embarrassed week in and week out from a physical stand point. i hate to say it, but watch our games, then watch OSU, UT, even Tech or a UK, and you'll see guys flying around on defense trying to HIT someone...we "grapple" and ankle bite the opposition and hope they wanna quit becuase we can score. and from 1st hand experience, i can tell you that the other team can feel that, and everyone knows college football is all about momentum, and everytime they hit us and we fall a little backwards, they wanna hit us a little harder...and that's the way the KSU's and colorados and Tech's and yep...UT's can beat us now. OU USED to hit you in the mouth harder than you could hit them and by the 3rd quarter the other team would quit...i don't see that anymore. i see linemen tryn to be "sexy" instead of nasty. i see receivers who won't block down field (that's how you get the LONG running plays). i see coaches go out and recruit the best talent in the country and get too scared to line up on defense and say...'my players are better than yours, so we're gonna bump ur receivers and blitz your qb and allow our safeties to ball hawk the field...instead we employ a vanilla (ancient) zone blitz scheme that the "spread" was designed to destroy...DUH...

just my thoughts..

boomer
'not sooner born...but i'll damn sure be sooner dead!!!'

Well, good to know my thoughts line up with those who have lined up and PLAYED FOR the Sooners!

Good to have you on board, DMack! Now someone try to call him a noob! :D

[badger]

What if Florida beats Alabama in the SEC title game and also has one loss?

Looking at "what if" scenarios before they happen gives me a headache, especially this far in advance. It's still October and all of that won't happen until December.

Wait until November is at least halfway over, see if those scenarios are still a possibility, then get back to me. Until then, where's my asprin bottle :cool:

[The Maestro]

Looking at "what if" scenarios before they happen gives me a headache, especially this far in advance. It's still October and all of that won't happen until December.

Wait until November is at least halfway over, see if those scenarios are still a possibility, then get back to me. Until then, where's my asprin bottle :cool:

Understood. Just hate on a weekend we could steamroll an opponent and Florida actually DID that.

[badger]

Understood. Just hate on a weekend we could steamroll an opponent and Florida actually DID that.

Hmm, well, if that does happen, whereas we "steamroll an opponent" and Florida "actually DID that," I assume you are referring to the SEC Championship still...

Wait... on the same weekend? Are you suggesting we go to the Big 12 Championship then if you're saying we steamroll an opponent on the same weekend that Florida "actually did that," aka beats Bammer?

Weeeeeelllllllllll (ow, head starting to hurt again), if we win the Big 12, that means that either (a) Tech, Texas and OU were one-loss wonders to each other with OU winning the tiebreaker via BCS standings, or (b) Texas sunk into oblivion and OU won enough games to keep it at the top of the Big 12 South.

Assuming scenario (a), Texas and Tech will still be ranked exceedingly high for only one loss to another top team, so we can assume that by OU's presence in the Big 12 game, OU is ranked even higher than two highly ranked teams (ow, head starting to severely throb in pain). Thus, a Big 12 Championship where we "steamroll an opponent," we will probably go BCS Championship bowling.

(I am not kidding, the first part of this post resulted in a tad bit of a migrane and I am taking Motrin right now)

Assuming scenario (b), we either won out or just sucked less than the other Big 12 South teams. I don't like this scenario as much, because it suggests that our schedule suddenly got a lot weaker and we were just not as weak as our wussy weakling opponents (headache once again). Under this scenario, a BCS Championship is a lot less likely.

As shown above, "what if" scenarios are big kick to the noggin and if at all possible, should be avoided as long as possible --- and since we remind you that final BCS standings do not arrive until MORE THAN A MONTH FROM NOW, let's save ourselves a headache and let the Pokies get the migranes.

[The Maestro]

Ha! Great write up, but I meant Florida LAST weekend crushed a team like Kansas State...Kentucky...and won some style points. Meanwhile, we didn't.

[badger]

Ha! Great write up, but I meant Florida LAST weekend crushed a team like Kansas State...Kentucky...and won some style points. Meanwhile, we didn't.

You mean my headache was in vain?! :mad:

This is what I get for taking my office anger out of the keyboard, one big headache filled rant. I'm going to put on my headphones now and hold my tongue (fingers?) from such outbursts in the future, for all of our sakes.

... oh, and Pepsi Max, people. You ever want to increase your typing speed from 70 wpm to 90 or so (that's about how fast I was typing that last post),t that's your trick right there.

[BoulderSooner79]

Ha! Great write up, but I meant Florida LAST weekend crushed a team like Kansas State...Kentucky...and won some style points. Meanwhile, we didn't.

I guess it is a perception thing. I consider having a game won by half-time as "crushing" a team. I agree the sloppy 7-3 second half was not very satisfying, but the outcome had been decided. I hope we can focus for 60 minutes in the next 2 games to get us prepared for the last 2.

[boomermagic]

wow...i've been reading and watching you guys comment on the state of OUR program and i share a lot of the same issues. (if you didn't notice from the tag, this is damian mackey...2000 NC and the glue to the receiver core before injury) it really hurts my feelings (and ima man...im 28...lol) to see the crimson and cream go on the field and get embarrassed week in and week out from a physical stand point. i hate to say it, but watch our games, then watch OSU, UT, even Tech or a UK, and you'll see guys flying around on defense trying to HIT someone...we "grapple" and ankle bite the opposition and hope they wanna quit becuase we can score. and from 1st hand experience, i can tell you that the other team can feel that, and everyone knows college football is all about momentum, and everytime they hit us and we fall a little backwards, they wanna hit us a little harder...and that's the way the KSU's and colorados and Tech's and yep...UT's can beat us now. OU USED to hit you in the mouth harder than you could hit them and by the 3rd quarter the other team would quit...i don't see that anymore. i see linemen tryn to be "sexy" instead of nasty. i see receivers who won't block down field (that's how you get the LONG running plays). i see coaches go out and recruit the best talent in the country and get too scared to line up on defense and say...'my players are better than yours, so we're gonna bump ur receivers and blitz your qb and allow our safeties to ball hawk the field...instead we employ a vanilla (ancient) zone blitz scheme that the "spread" was designed to destroy...DUH...

just my thoughts..

boomer
'not sooner born...but i'll damn sure be sooner dead!!!'

Hello Damian,,

You sure gave us a lot of OU football thrills first of all Thank you for that..

You are certainly more qualified than I am to judge what may or may not be wrong with the defense.. I bow to your experience and expertise sir.. It is obvious that something is wrong.. Most if not all of us can and do agree on that..

[StoopTroup]

Damian...good to have you on board.

Please let Maestro know you weren't quoting him. ;)

As far as our guys not being as aggressive anymore....I have noticed that for more than this season. Brandon Everage looked to be the next Roy Williams one year and then the next Season he and others start bouncing off guys and failing to wrap guys up. I'm not sure what or who is responsible...whether it's Coaches or just recruits who get a case of entitlement once they are here....

When you guys won the NC you were a team. You played through injuries...in the off-season you challenged each other in the weight room....lots of stuff like that was going on that you don't hear about anymore.

I guess it really gets down to why this thread was started....when do you blame Bob for it?

If you do start the blame the Coach thing...does it inspire him or do you suddenly find Joe Castiglione looking for the next Bob Stoops?

I think Bob still has what it takes to win it all. I'd like to see a little more passion from him rather than see him avoid answering questions....but he's been doing more and more of it these last few years.

Bob has put together a great organization here at OU....should he move on?


wow...i've been reading and watching you guys comment on the state of OUR program and i share a lot of the same issues. (if you didn't notice from the tag, this is damian mackey...2000 NC and the glue to the receiver core before injury) it really hurts my feelings (and ima man...im 28...lol) to see the crimson and cream go on the field and get embarrassed week in and week out from a physical stand point. i hate to say it, but watch our games, then watch OSU, UT, even Tech or a UK, and you'll see guys flying around on defense trying to HIT someone...we "grapple" and ankle bite the opposition and hope they wanna quit becuase we can score. and from 1st hand experience, i can tell you that the other team can feel that, and everyone knows college football is all about momentum, and everytime they hit us and we fall a little backwards, they wanna hit us a little harder...and that's the way the KSU's and colorados and Tech's and yep...UT's can beat us now. OU USED to hit you in the mouth harder than you could hit them and by the 3rd quarter the other team would quit...i don't see that anymore. i see linemen tryn to be "sexy" instead of nasty. i see receivers who won't block down field (that's how you get the LONG running plays). i see coaches go out and recruit the best talent in the country and get too scared to line up on defense and say...'my players are better than yours, so we're gonna bump ur receivers and blitz your qb and allow our safeties to ball hawk the field...instead we employ a vanilla (ancient) zone blitz scheme that the "spread" was designed to destroy...DUH...

just my thoughts..

boomer
'not sooner born...but i'll damn sure be sooner dead!!!'

[MALE918]

You do realize that our only loss this yr is to the #1 team in the nation and the game wasnt decided until the final 4 minutes or else we would be #1 and on our way to another Big 12 title and a possible natl title which we may still play for

i'm sorry but i know your smart enough to see that people are not strictly talking about wins and losses here. they are talking about an inept defense. try to stay on point.

[The Maestro]

Bob has put together a great organization here at OU....should he move on?

"Let me answer that for Damian! NO!!!!"

[MALE918]

"Let me answer that for Damian! NO!!!!"

i agree. we just need an attitude adjustment.

[dmack13]

bob stays...

i'll explain my assessment of our probs later tonight when i get offa work...start a new thread that says "How to fix our issues" and i'll come on and explain at about 9pm...

boomer sooner guys...
that year was magical and you guys helped make it that way

[StoopTroup]

"Let me answer that for Damian! NO!!!!"

:D

[Collier11]

Maybe one of us need to nut up and call Bobs call-in show and ask him why our team is soft, why receivers can run freely over the middle without getting beheaded, and why we cant cover a fuggin kickoff...any takers?

[BoonesFarmSooner]

Maybe one of us need to nut up and call Bobs call-in show and ask him why our team is soft, why receivers can run freely over the middle without getting beheaded, and why we cant cover a fuggin kickoff...any takers?

Hey Bob, what kind of Mickey Mouse defense are you and Venables trying to run??? Thanks and I'll take my answer off the air.

(Joe Dickenson reference)

[PalmBeachSooner1]

Listening to Traber on the internet and he is defending Vulnerables. What is he his golf buddy or something? Are they not seeing the same games that I am?

[Collier11]

Anyone that is halfway rational would say that BV isnt the only problem, remember it is Stoops D, BV just has to call it and put it in place

[Scott D]

Just wait for a coaching job to open for BV to go to. It's how you all got rid of Chuck Long :rolleyes:

and Mark Mangino, and Kevin Sumlin. ;)

[cheezyq]

If you had paid attention to my post you would have seen that my issue was not with you pointing out the defensive ineptitude this year, but was in fact with the whole "we demand championships, and not the conference variety" pomp and circumastance in your original post. Its one thing to say, "The defense could be better, but I'm happy with the team overall," versus being a disgrutled fan who is unhappy with the current state of the team and thinks the coaching staff is doing an inadequate job (which is the vibe I got from your original post).

Look, if you have read any of my posts as a whole, you would know that I love Bob Stoops. As much as I don't like how we've lost the last 4 BCS bowls and all the other things, I love what Bob Stoops has brought as a whole to this program, and I've defended him fiercely (just ask Colin Cowpatty).

I'm also a huge OU fan. I love the fact that OU is an elite team in the world of college football, and as a rule, OU is expected - not just by its fans - to compete for national championships. Big 12 championships are great, and I'm happy to have them, as I'm sure that OU is happy to have them. But here at OU, we aren't like Texas, where we're just happy to put up 10-win seasons. We aren't Orange Aggie, where merely a winning season is a reason to throw a party. I'm asking you, and every one else here, to be realistic. OU has the talent, most years, to compete on a national scale and deliver championships. We ALL expect that here.

BUT (and this is for Collier11, too), if you can't play consistent defense, you simply cannot win championships. I love our offense, and I think it's fantastic that we can score 55 in a half and all that. But there will come a day (and it already has once this season), where putting up 35-40 points won't be enough with this wildly inconsistent defense that we have. The Big 12 has several teams with the offensive firepower to keep up with our offense. And that means that if we make just a few minor mistakes on offense in addition to our usual poor defense, we end up with another loss.

I don't expect championships every year, and I clearly stated that. The fact is that you can't control injuries and attrition through the draft/graduation. But THIS year, we have the talent to make it happen, and the problems that we have ARE fixable by the coaching staff. However, I don't think that they are being addressed with any measure of efficiency. And THAT is what's frustrating.

[BoonesFarmSooner]

San Diego State AD would have been smart to read Soonerfans.com message boards a few years ago...

[badger]

San Diego State AD would have been smart to read Soonerfans.com message boards a few years ago...

That school's football program is built over a sinkhole. Everything that goes there is doomed to suck to the center of the Earth. Unlike Oklahoma, where there are three major football programs in the state, the southern part of California probably has 20 (and I'm saying this without counting, because I am just imagining all the Bottom 10/Top 10 California schools we've heard about in recent years).

If UCLA continues to suck despite its 1337 status, what chance does SDSU have? Poor Chuck Long. I know there was some "Third and Long" hate here a few season ago, but I still wish him well.

[wishbonesooner]

Success can spoil anybody, even Bob Stoops. he's rich, he's famous, he has a great life. Maybe he's soft and just doesn't give a big f**k anymore? I hate to think that, but it could just be the truth.

[PalmBeachSooner1]

As much as we all like Bob, he can be a jerk. Like when he chews out his players for not having the heart of the 2000 club.

[wishbonesooner]

Uh, that's exactly what he needs to do.

[PalmBeachSooner1]

Perhaps, but not right after they lose their bowl game.

[snp]

Perhaps, but not right after they lose their bowl game.

I would seriously love it if you people with your crazy ideas would have the opportunity to meet Bob and tell him to his face that you know more about coaching college players than he does.

[Curly Bill]

I would seriously love it if you people with your crazy ideas would have the opportunity to meet Bob and tell him to his face that you know more about coaching college players than he does.

...so if there's smoke coming out from under the hood of my car can I not tell my mechanic I think that's a problem...you know since he know's more about cars then I do?

[Johnny Utah]

...so if there's smoke coming out from under the hood of my car can I not tell my mechanic I think that's a problem...you know since he know's more about cars then I do?

:D

[ashley]

Letstake a poll here and see who has ever coached. Little League, Jr. Hi. and playing doesn't count.

[snp]

...so if there's smoke coming out from under the hood of my car can I not tell my mechanic I think that's a problem...you know since he know's more about cars then I do?

Pointing out a problem to a mechanic and diagnosing a problem in D1 football is the same thing.

Question Stoops all you want as long as you realize he's a lot smarter than you and he doesn't care what you think about his coaching methods. He has the success and pedigree to back it up, you have 4 hours every Saturday to become an expert.

[Jdog]

Letstake a poll here and see who has ever coached. Little League, Jr. Hi. and playing doesn't count.

We're not coaches, we're critics. This board is a place where we Critics can be positive or negtive about how our team is doing, just like the people who write reviews or do evaluations in the newpaper, (like sportswriters). Fans like doing this sort of thing, whether its at work or on this board - really there's nothing wrong with it. You can't take it too Seriously.

Some of us have been following the history (and going to games) of this program for 40 to 50 years - some for maybe 5 to 10 years. Most have a general understanding of what a good football team looks like. Right now the consenses seems to say that our favorite team, THE SOONERS, are good, but that the Defense and special teams performance is not so good - it's not what we're use to seeing from an OU team. Sure we've seen (and spent a lot of money watching) better teams - and yes we've experienced worse teams.

We're just complaining alittle bit about the product - Giving our two cents.

no big deal

[wishbonesooner]

Parts of our team are preventing us from being a GREAT team. I don't think it's being a bad fan to point out things that are obvious. Sooner fans are not the only ones asking questions. Fans from teams across the country have seen us play and are asking the same questions. Powerhouse teams are rare. These chances to win it all don't happen every year. I hate to think Sam may never get his chance to win a NC.

[Curly Bill]

Pointing out a problem to a mechanic and diagnosing a problem in D1 football is the same thing.

Question Stoops all you want as long as you realize he's a lot smarter than you and he doesn't care what you think about his coaching methods. He has the success and pedigree to back it up, you have 4 hours every Saturday to become an expert.

Coached football for 15 years. Nice try at being cute though. ;)

[Sugalean]

Let's see. OU has lost one game... ranked highly and respected by most. A ton of very good players and a top notch program with a top notch staff. Yet I read these threads and the overall feeling is the DC sucks and must go.

Heed this warning... Be careful for what you wish for. Good DCs don't come around every day.

You guys are doing fine. Look around the conference. A ton of teams would love to have his expertise. There isn't a lights out defense in the conference including Texas. Maybe if OU and the rest of the conference hadn't put the so many of their best athletes on the O side of the ball, there wouldn't be so much dissent.

[Ice Cold Peanuts]

2 posters in a row from Omaha. How about that. I can't believe some of the stuff I read here. You'd think you were Kansas State the way people are harping on BS and BV. Unreal. The only team you've shared the spotlight with since 2000 is USC. Oklahoma is consistently in the running for the MNC. You've got a great staff and superior athletes. So you lost a few bowl games in a row. You're nowhere near where we (Nebraska) were during the 80's. What did we lose? 8 in a row? I can only hope we can get back to where you've been recently. I'd like nothing more than settling the Big 12 against Oklahoma every year. Screw Texas.