It's NOT the defense...

[8timechamps]

It's the offenses of the Big XII.

I'm not saying we have a great defense...so, don't get me wrong. I'm saying that this year, the Big XII is fielding some of the most explosive offenses CFB has ever seen.

How many teams in the Big XII run no-huddle spread offenses? 6, 7, 8? Maybe more.

You can't tell me that no team in the Big XII has a decent defense. I know there are defenses in the Big XII that have solid units (run d, pass d), but NOBODY is holding decent teams down.

There have been a few games that a defense stepped up and played good (Tech today for example), but for the most part, the Big XII has become basketball on grass.

I think it's just as simple as "The defenses haven't caught up with the no-huddle spread offense". They will.

It doesn't make it any easier to see our defense get scorched week in and week out, but it does make a little more sense than thinking BV has suddenly lost all ability to coach defense and has somehow become a horrible DC. Not to mention that Stoops himself still plays a big role in the defensive prep.

[possumfat]

That "might" explain this year so far, but what about the past?

[8timechamps]

Oh, and for the record, we have (going into today) the highest ranking TOTAL DEFENSE (of the Big XII) in the country at #34.

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2008&rpt=IA_teamtotdef&site=org

[Sooner Stew]

thank you...great post...im with you all the way

[Fraggle145]

Heh, look at the numbers put up in the SEC today... great defenses my ***

[aurorasooner]

It doesn't make it any easier to see our defense get scorched week in and week out, but it does make a little more sense than thinking BV has suddenly lost all ability to coach defense and has somehow become a horrible DC. Not to mention that Stoops himself still plays a big role in the defensive prep. IMO, you have to be able to play some man-to-man coverage and I still think that if we had a quality DBs position coach that could coach and teach MoM coverage it would make BV's CO's job a lot easier and Bob a lot less testy.
)(*)_+M, it just seems like our DBs are always out of position in this soft zone and when they're in position they let the offensive receiver outfight them for the ball. It also seems like we're always recruiting DBs and split receivers and not OL and DL, yet it's been a while since we've had any quality CB play where we're comfortable in letting them play Mom coverage.

[PhiDeltBeers]

Even Bv said it was disgusting in the post game.

[8timechamps]

IMO, you have to be able to play some man-to-man coverage and I still think that if we had a quality DBs position coach that could coach and teach MoM coverage it would make BV's CO's job a lot easier and Bob a lot less testy.
)(*)_+M, it just seems like our DBs are always out of position in this soft zone and when they're in position they let the offensive receiver outfight them for the ball. It also seems like we're always recruiting DBs and split receivers and not OL and DL, yet it's been a while since we've had any quality CB play where we're comfortable in letting them play Mom coverage.

No doubt that we need work on the defensive side of the ball (more in the secondary than anywhere). It also hurts to have our defensive leader and playmaker out for the season.

I, for one, had a big question mark about the defense before the season started. This is just validating that. My point is that we aren't really playing as bad as some may think. And that there is a reason we give up a lot of points. More than anything, defense of BV.

[My Opinion Matters]

See the thing about 8timechamps is he generally has pretty terrible opinions on football, music, food and life.

BOOOOO 8XC.

[jduggle]

It's really simple, at least for this OU grad it is... the spread offenses are very good... but you can't play cover 2 zone against a spread offense unless you are absolutely sure you have a pass rush that can get to the QB and force him to make mistakes, and you have an all-world safety that will knock the daylights out of the receivers should they find themselves open in the seams. We have neither...

TT is going to be a very difficult game. We have to hope Wilson has a good day calling plays because we are going to need all the points we can get.

[East Coast Bias]

The rumours of the death of good defense is premature. Take a few minutes and watch some football on Sunday. Very few offensive jugernauts, despite some amazing levels of talent. I believe college teams are putting more focus into offensive schemes and execution and taking their eye off defense.
Watching Texas today and hearing all the McCoy raves, I was struck by how simple their offense is. It is just the 5-yard pass from every angle and then watch all the missed tackles. The only defense is solid tackling and being sound in coverage. The Patriots and Colts have been doing this for years.

[jduggle]

The Patriots hardly ever play zone defense.

[Widescreen]

CU held KSU to 13 points. Apparently CU's defense didn't get the memo that they're supposed to be behind KSU's offense.

[8timechamps]

See the thing about 8timechamps is he generally has pretty terrible opinions on football, music, food and life.

BOOOOO 8XC.

But I have big hands...

[Fraggle145]

The rumours of the death of good defense is premature. Take a few minutes and watch some football on Sunday. Very few offensive jugernauts, despite some amazing levels of talent. I believe college teams are putting more focus into offensive schemes and execution and taking their eye off defense.
Watching Texas today and hearing all the McCoy raves, I was struck by how simple their offense is. It is just the 5-yard pass from every angle and then watch all the missed tackles. The only defense is solid tackling and being sound in coverage. The Patriots and Colts have been doing this for years.

I think part of the lack of tackling etc... is the lack of work in pads in practice (not just us) because of the worries about injuries.

Of course I could be talking out my ***.

[jduggle]

I think part of the lack of tackling etc... is the lack of work in pads in practice (not just us) because of the worries about injuries.

Of course I could be talking out my ***.

You might have a point...but a poor tackling team is a poorly coached team.

[Rogue]

Scheme schmeem.
Blocking and tackling is what it always comes down to.
Always has, always will.

[tommieharris91]

It's the offenses of the Big XII.

I'm not saying we have a great defense...so, don't get me wrong. I'm saying that this year, the Big XII is fielding some of the most explosive offenses CFB has ever seen.

How many teams in the Big XII run no-huddle spread offenses? 6, 7, 8? Maybe more.

You can't tell me that no team in the Big XII has a decent defense. I know there are defenses in the Big XII that have solid units (run d, pass d), but NOBODY is holding decent teams down.

There have been a few games that a defense stepped up and played good (Tech today for example), but for the most part, the Big XII has become basketball on grass.

I think it's just as simple as "The defenses haven't caught up with the no-huddle spread offense". They will.

It doesn't make it any easier to see our defense get scorched week in and week out, but it does make a little more sense than thinking BV has suddenly lost all ability to coach defense and has somehow become a horrible DC. Not to mention that Stoops himself still plays a big role in the defensive prep.

Dude, quit making sense.

[Charla]

Heh, look at the numbers put up in the SEC today... great defenses my ***

Florida only gave up 5. If the top ranked defense in the big 12 is ranked 34th in the nation tells me that nobody is playing defense in the big 12. I guess we want to look like the WAC.

[LosAngelesSooner]

It's the offenses of the Big XII.

I'm not saying we have a great defense...so, don't get me wrong. I'm saying that this year, the Big XII is fielding some of the most explosive offenses CFB has ever seen.

How many teams in the Big XII run no-huddle spread offenses? 6, 7, 8? Maybe more.

You can't tell me that no team in the Big XII has a decent defense. I know there are defenses in the Big XII that have solid units (run d, pass d), but NOBODY is holding decent teams down.

There have been a few games that a defense stepped up and played good (Tech today for example), but for the most part, the Big XII has become basketball on grass.

I think it's just as simple as "The defenses haven't caught up with the no-huddle spread offense". They will.

It doesn't make it any easier to see our defense get scorched week in and week out, but it does make a little more sense than thinking BV has suddenly lost all ability to coach defense and has somehow become a horrible DC. Not to mention that Stoops himself still plays a big role in the defensive prep.Bullbutter.

If we had been playing Tech, OSU or Texas, I'd be with you.

But we weren't. We were playing K-State.

[Fraggle145]

Florida only gave up 5. If the top ranked defense in the big 12 is ranked 34th in the nation tells me that nobody is playing defense in the big 12. I guess we want to look like the WAC.

Kentucky was supposed to be the better defense in that game, 63... oops. LSU and UGA both supposed to be good Defenses, 52 and 38... oops. Auburn gives up 34 to a stumbling West Virginia team. I guess Vandy only gave up 10. To Duke.

You need to look up how many yds/play that each give up... There isnt much difference between UGA and OU for example.

[the_ouskull]

Even Bv said it was disgusting in the post game.

Man, I wish that we had somebody on staff... anybody... whose job it was to fix problems with the defense; consistent problems that have been plaguing us for the better part of 4 years now -- problems that have now extended to the tackling of our special teams players.

Do football teams have somebody that is supposed to get the defense ready to play, including the basic fundamentals of defense... not letting someone get behind you (every game) for big plays... wrapping up and tackling first, stripping the ball second... a "coach" if you will? If they don't have one, and it appears like they do not, then perhaps we should hire one. I'd totally be down with that.

the_ouskull

[bcgvh]

It doesn't make it any easier to see our defense get scorched week in and week out, but it does make a little more sense than thinking BV has suddenly lost all ability to coach defense and has somehow become a horrible DC.

When did he ever have the ability to put together great defensive schemes to begin with? He hasn't gotten worse, the Big 12 has gotten better. He's always done a poor job against teams with good offense, see our recent bowl history.

[achiro]

CU held KSU to 13 points. Apparently CU's defense didn't get the memo that they're supposed to be behind KSU's offense.

+++

[Curly Bill]

When did he ever have the ability to put together great defensive schemes to begin with? He hasn't gotten worse, the Big 12 has gotten better. He's always done a poor job against teams with good offense, see our recent bowl history.

Yep...and SPEK

[aurorasooner]

Nebraska paper says the OU defense "isn't any good right now". This should make our D's bulletin board.
As porous as OU’s defense is – and the Sooners aren’t any good on defense right now, this is an immutable truth –it’s not going to just let quarterback Joe Ganz calmly flip four-yarders to his tight ends and receivers and first down, and hustle for some nifty third-down conversions. Rhode gives our defense a D. Wrote that if not for the TOs it would be an F.
D: OU defense. Had it not been for forcing five turnovers, this grade would have been one letter lower. KSU threw for 486 yards, including 334 in the first half. Bad as the defense played overall, forcing turnovers saved the day for the Sooners. He gave Nic a C-.
From Rhodes Column.
The bull's-eye of criticism is now focused squarely on the forehead of Sooners defensive coordinator Brent Venables.

Some want Venables lined up against a brick wall and given no blindfold, no cigarette and no last request.
"It's disgusting football," Venables said. "You hate it. It's not what we're about. It's not acceptable. It definitely isn’t going to be a culture that we allow.

"I've seen us play a lot better. Our first four or five games we played pretty good. The big plays have just killed us ... crazy stuff has happened. It's just inconsistent, bad football at times."

[Tulsa_Fireman]

It's not our defense.

It's the dang pesky 10+ yards per play K-State averaged in the first half.

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

That "might" explain this year so far, but what about that smell?

This certainly isn't the best defense OU has had in recent years but I think 1. OU has faced some better offensive teams and 2. the kick coverage has been bad. No other way to dress it up.

Hey IMO this beats some of problems we had in 2001 when we had a smothering defense but we had a hard time scoring 21 points in a game.

[misplaced_sooner]

From what I saw today, the D is gambling too much. Jumping routes, trying to make a pick on every play isn't the answer. Just keep the ball in front of you, break up the play and line up again.

We used to see multiple passes broken up a game...now we see players trying to make the big play every down.

I think my issue with BV is I've lost faith that he can teach these kids some discipline. All they need to do is stay on their assignments and quit trying to be the hero.

[Sooner Stew]

This certainly isn't the best defense OU has had in recent years but I think 1. OU has faced some better offensive teams and 2. the kick coverage has been bad. No other way to dress it up.

Hey IMO this beats some of problems we had in 2001 when we had a smothering defense but we had a hard time scoring 21 points in a game.

amen brotha

[aurorasooner]

Another quote from that Nebraska paper.
“It’s Oklahoma-Nebraska,” Cody Glenn said. “You gotta love that. It works in our favor, because we love to play a team like that’s going to line up and run the ball and play our kind of football, which is physical, hard-nosed, smashmouth football. We love that. We’re tired of playing all these spread teams, these soft teams that like to spread it out. :D

[achiro]

This certainly isn't the best defense OU has had in recent years but I think 1. OU has faced some better offensive teams and 2. the kick coverage has been bad. No other way to dress it up.

Hey IMO this beats some of problems we had in 2001 when we had a smothering defense but we had a hard time scoring 21 points in a game.

The problem with your theory is that it is blown away by facts, like that CU held KSU to a couple less yards and points than OU did.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

It was so much easier in Switzer's era....I mean you are preparing for what...2 or 3 schemes max. Now EVERY team has a little uniqueness to it. Also, saying that K State had trouble with Colorado so Colorado must at least be better is very thoughtless. It could have nothing to do with you might be more up for a home game against the #4 ranked team in the country against a game against an unranked Colorado.

[Widescreen]

From what I saw today, the D is gambling too much. Jumping routes, trying to make a pick on every play isn't the answer. Just keep the ball in front of you, break up the play and line up again.

We used to see multiple passes broken up a game...now we see players trying to make the big play every down.

I think my issue with BV is I've lost faith that he can teach these kids some discipline. All they need to do is stay on their assignments and quit trying to be the hero.

That's funny. Just 2 weeks ago people were screaming that we were sitting back in our zones and letting all these dink and dunk catches happen. Everyone was asking why we aren't aggressive and getting turnovers.

What a difference a couple of weeks makes.

[soonerinabilene]

I saw a stat that jumped out at me today- Georgia is the top passing offense in the SEC with an average of 254 passing yards per game. Now, if you have watched any SEC games this year, you know that is not because the SEC has amazing defenses, most of their offenses just suck when it comes to the passing game.

Then look at the big 12. This is the most potent offensive conference in the nation, without a doubt. If you are expecting to be able to go into a game and hold a big 12 offense to under 20 points a game, you are just being naive. Almost every team has a guy under center that would start at any school in the nation. It wasnt just a bunch of preseason bullsh*t when every expert and analyst said the Big 12 was THE QB conference this year.

[Sooner Stew]

i got your back there...nice post...but im just a noob

[RedstickSooner]

I just don't see where folks are finding the sunshine on defense.

Look, I'm not trying to be personal here. Not trying to attack folks, but "Our defense doesn't suck, it's just, y'know, really *hard* to play defense" seems like the most gawdawful excuse in quite some time.

Great. Big 12 offenses are powerful -- that just means that national defensive rankings aren't a fair assessment of our defensive performance. However, what would remain a fair assessment would be how we stack up compared to other Big 12 defenses, and assessed that way we're, what, fifth or sixth best?

I just don't see where that's good enough.

We pay as much for our coaching staff as anyone. We shouldn't expect good coaching for that money. We should expect superb coaching for that money.

For four years, our defense has been good, at best.

When did we become Texas, when winning a lot of games was good enough? Hell, even Texas got tired of that eventually, and forced Brown to start firing co-ordinators until he got it right (even if he never did get rid of Davis).

If we, as fans, don't demand better, we're never gonna get it. Nor do we deserve it. There has to come a point when we stop making excuses and start making demands.

Heck, it sometimes seems like there are more folks on this board demanding Wilson's head than Vulnerables -- when our offense has been putting up monster numbers all season.

Winners find ways to win. Losers find ways to explain the loss.

[Curly Bill]

I just don't see where folks are finding the sunshine on defense.

Look, I'm not trying to be personal here. Not trying to attack folks, but "Our defense doesn't suck, it's just, y'know, really *hard* to play defense" seems like the most gawdawful excuse in quite some time.

Great. Big 12 offenses are powerful -- that just means that national defensive rankings aren't a fair assessment of our defensive performance. However, what would remain a fair assessment would be how we stack up compared to other Big 12 defenses, and assessed that way we're, what, fifth or sixth best?

I just don't see where that's good enough.

We pay as much for our coaching staff as anyone. We shouldn't expect good coaching for that money. We should expect superb coaching for that money.

For four years, our defense has been good, at best.

When did we become Texas, when winning a lot of games was good enough? Hell, even Texas got tired of that eventually, and forced Brown to start firing co-ordinators until he got it right (even if he never did get rid of Davis).

If we, as fans, don't demand better, we're never gonna get it. Nor do we deserve it. There has to come a point when we stop making excuses and start making demands.

Heck, it sometimes seems like there are more folks on this board demanding Wilson's head than Vulnerables -- when our offense has been putting up monster numbers all season.

Winners find ways to win. Losers find ways to explain the loss.

Yup....and SPEK

[Fraggle145]

I just don't see where folks are finding the sunshine on defense.

Look, I'm not trying to be personal here. Not trying to attack folks, but "Our defense doesn't suck, it's just, y'know, really *hard* to play defense" seems like the most gawdawful excuse in quite some time.

Great. Big 12 offenses are powerful -- that just means that national defensive rankings aren't a fair assessment of our defensive performance. However, what would remain a fair assessment would be how we stack up compared to other Big 12 defenses, and assessed that way we're, what, fifth or sixth best?

I just don't see where that's good enough.

We pay as much for our coaching staff as anyone. We shouldn't expect good coaching for that money. We should expect superb coaching for that money.

For four years, our defense has been good, at best.

When did we become Texas, when winning a lot of games was good enough? Hell, even Texas got tired of that eventually, and forced Brown to start firing co-ordinators until he got it right (even if he never did get rid of Davis).

If we, as fans, don't demand better, we're never gonna get it. Nor do we deserve it. There has to come a point when we stop making excuses and start making demands.

Heck, it sometimes seems like there are more folks on this board demanding Wilson's head than Vulnerables -- when our offense has been putting up monster numbers all season.

Winners find ways to win. Losers find ways to explain the loss.

Just for the record, I wasnt trying to say that its hard to play defense... and I wasnt saying that we dont suck at it, because I think we do. Rather I was jut saying that the SEC sucks at it too, more than most would like to admit.

[RedstickSooner]

Just for the record, I wasnt trying to say that its hard to play defense... and I wasnt saying that we dont suck at it, because I think we do. Rather I was jut saying that the SEC sucks at it too, more than most would like to admit.

Well, since we're going on the record, I do want to emphasize I was trying to reply to the whole thread, not anyone in particular.

And, I think any attempts you might make to prove that the SEC sucks at defense are doomed from the start -- that's like trying to re-write the old testament, yo :)

No way any talking heads will ever admit that the SEC might be anything other than the home of the bestestester defenses in all of college football. All objective criteria notwithstanding ;)

[Johnny Utah]

Yup....and SPEK

+1

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

The problem with your theory is that it is blown away by facts, like that CU held KSU to a couple less yards and points than OU did.

Except that even when you throw in the Colo game for KSU they were averaging 37 points a game going into yesterdays game. Over 43 points a game before the Colo game. No KSU isn't a great offense but it wasn't like it was the only game all year where they scored some points.

I'm also not ready to crown Colo as having a better defense than OU given the woodhsed beatings that Texas and Mizzou put on them.

Again I didn't suggest this is our best defensive unit. It isn't anything like what we had in 2000 or 2001. By comparison to our kick coverage the defense looks pretty good. I'll take +5 in turnover margin every game though.

[RedstickSooner]

Except that even when you throw in the Colo game for KSU they were averaging 37 points a game going into yesterdays game. Over 43 points a game before the Colo game. No KSU isn't a great offense but it wasn't like it was the only game all year where they scored some points.

I'm also not ready to crown Colo as having a better defense than OU given the woodhsed beatings that Texas and Mizzou put on them.

Again I didn't suggest this is our best defensive unit. It isn't anything like what we had in 2000 or 2001. By comparison to our kick coverage the defense looks pretty good. I'll take +5 in turnover margin every game though.

Frog, your mention of KSU's per game points average speaks, I think, less to their offensive prowess, and more to the danger of how deceptive stats can be. They've playe a bunch of gawdawful teams.

First, North Texas. Winless North Texas. The fewest points North Texas has given up in a game is 35.

Then, Montana State. They're, what, division 2? Their 69 points against Montana State shouldn't even be included in their stats. (Just as our 57 against Chattanooga shouldn't count for us).

Then, Louisville. This game may actually be the strongest argument for the Mildcats having a decent offense. They lost, but nobody else this season has scored more against Louisville. So they have that consolation, at least.

Then they scored 45 on Ulala, University of Louisiana at Lafayette, a perennial laughingstock that continues to deliver the sorts of random results you expect out of one of college football's afterthoughts. That's Ulala's second-highest point total of the season, but Ulala's performance is so hit-or-miss, I don't know that we can read a lot into it.

Against Texas Tech they were again amongst the top scorers, but TTech has been playing the sort of rich, diverse, manly schedule which any girl's junior varsity squad could be proud of.

Finally, there's AtM, which appears to be even more porous than we are on defense.

So... Yeah, I'd say the Mildcats have an above-average offense.

However, even if we just go with stats, we only managed to hold them to 2 fewer points than they average all season. So if you look at it that way, we're a completely average defense.

Used to be, we'd routinely be the lowpoint of other team's offenses for the season. Now, it just seems to be the lowpoint of our defenses under Stoops.

This is college ball. Outside of USC, *every* team has weaknesses on defense. Some position where they don't have depth, or don't have experience, or don't match up well. Great defensive co-ordinators find a way to work around it. The biggest knock against Mike, from what I understand, was that he recruited badly. Maybe that means that as a coach he was all that more impressive -- since it means he accomplished what he did with crappier players than we have now.

I've tried not to jump on the BV bashing bandwagon for the past few years, but it's gotten to the point where I simply don't see how we can continue to see this as not being his fault.

Sure, maybe all the excuses are right, and he's doing the best with what he's got. But the fact remains, at some point you've got to blame someone when you fail -- and even if it's not fair, changing coaches sends the message to other teams, to our players, to our recruits, and to us fans, that mediocrity isn't good enough.

Because it isn't. We're OU. We deserve better. We demand better.

BV, shape up or ship out. No more excuses. No more second best.

[yermom]

a lot of our problems aren't schemes, but fundamentals, even when our pass rushers were getting pressure yesterday, it seemed like they couldn't finish the play and the guy scrambles and either runs for the first down, or completes a long pass after they juke the crap out of the defender(s) in the back field

[tulsaoilerfan]

Except that even when you throw in the Colo game for KSU they were averaging 37 points a game going into yesterdays game. Over 43 points a game before the Colo game. No KSU isn't a great offense but it wasn't like it was the only game all year where they scored some points.

I'm also not ready to crown Colo as having a better defense than OU given the woodhsed beatings that Texas and Mizzou put on them.

Again I didn't suggest this is our best defensive unit. It isn't anything like what we had in 2000 or 2001. By comparison to our kick coverage the defense looks pretty good. I'll take +5 in turnover margin every game though.


What's scary to me is what would have happened if we hadn't gotten those 5 turnovers? I seriously think we could be on here discussing a loss if that doesn't happen;it's unrealistic to think we will average 5 TO's per game; what will happen to this team when we have another game like Texas where the opposing team doesn't turn the ball over? This team has a ton of issues on defense and they are no where close to being resolved

[okiewaker]

That "might" explain this year so far, but what about the past?

Yeah, we've seen the spread from TT for years now and have done pretty well against them in the past. I just think we are not as good on defense as we have been in the past.

[The Remnant]

While I would agree that the passing offenses in the Big 12 are much more potent than in the other conferences, that still doesn't explain why the OU defense has gone belly up in 3 out of the last 4 bowl games.

[josh09]

It's the offenses of the Big XII.

I'm not saying we have a great defense...so, don't get me wrong. I'm saying that this year, the Big XII is fielding some of the most explosive offenses CFB has ever seen.

How many teams in the Big XII run no-huddle spread offenses? 6, 7, 8? Maybe more.

You can't tell me that no team in the Big XII has a decent defense. I know there are defenses in the Big XII that have solid units (run d, pass d), but NOBODY is holding decent teams down.

There have been a few games that a defense stepped up and played good (Tech today for example), but for the most part, the Big XII has become basketball on grass.

I think it's just as simple as "The defenses haven't caught up with the no-huddle spread offense". They will.

It doesn't make it any easier to see our defense get scorched week in and week out, but it does make a little more sense than thinking BV has suddenly lost all ability to coach defense and has somehow become a horrible DC. Not to mention that Stoops himself still plays a big role in the defensive prep.

Thats a very very good opinion. I was just thinking the same thing.

[RedstickSooner]

So, in a related note, has Stoops EVER fired anyone?

I'm all for loyalty, but there are times when it can be a bit self-destructive. It was frustrating to see him keep Long as OC until SDSU saved us. Being loyal in that manner is a surefire recipe for eventual mediocrity, as your competent assistants get hired away -- and the ones that *don't* get hired away, by definition, tend to not be as good.

It's like with Captain Kirk. Yeah, I get it, his senior officers say he does a great job, but the simple truth is, ensigns keep dying. At a certain point, you just can't handle any more excuses -- or writing any more letters of condolence to the mothers of ensigns.

[starclassic tama]

this thread is hilarious and sad. if you watch football, you cannot argue that our defense is below average

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Maybe we can get Muschamp so we can finally get a d-coordinate that will give up 400 yards to OSU or even 387 yards to Sam!!

[8timechamps]

this thread is hilarious and sad. if you watch football, you cannot argue that our defense is below average

Really? What do you consider average?

Just curious.

[MamaMia]

No matter how you spin it, we have major defensive problems that need to be fixed.

[8timechamps]

The great thing about this board is that so many Sooner fans (new and old) can come give their two cents.

I could care less if you agree with my opinion. You know what they say about *******s...

Anyway, I lived through the 90's as many of you did. And it sucked. Personally, I'd love to see us beat every team 55-0...but it's not going to happen.

BV has put our defense in the top 25 each year since MS left. I'm okay with that. Would I love to have the #1 ranked defense year in and year out, sure...who wouldn't?! It's not going to happen...at Oklahoma or anywhere else.

If you think the introduction of the no-huddle spread isn't causing some of these defensive issues, then you just don't know much about defensive football. When over half the teams in the Big XII run it, and EVERY defense in the Big XII is ranked 34 or lower, that tells you something.

The old "the Big XII doesn't play defense" theory is laughable. Since when?

Like I said, I don't for a minute think we have a great defense. But I do think we have a defense that can get us where we want to go. Losing Reggie Smith, Lewis Baker, D.J. Wolfe, Marcus Walker, Demarrio Pleasant, Curtis Lofton and Ryan Reynolds couldn't possibly be the cause for this could it?!

Some of you need to go back and read Sooner04's post from a couple of weeks ago...just to remember how things were (and how they could be again). If you still aren't "happy" with this defense, a #4 ranking and still alive in the title hunt...then you'll never be "happy".

[The Remnant]

Rather than relying on statistics to prove or disprove a point, just compare our tackling with other schools. Watch the poor tackling that went on in the KSU game and compare that with the slobberknockers that were meted out in the Arizona/USC game. There's no comparison. Throw the stats out the window. Just watch how well those two teams tackle.

[8timechamps]

Rather than relying on statistics to prove or disprove a point, just compare our tackling with other schools. Watch the poor tackling that went on in the KSU game and compare that with the slobberknockers that were meted out in the Arizona/USC game. There's no comparison. Throw the stats out the window. Just watch how well those two teams tackle.

SC lost to an unranked OSU team.

Arizona isn't even ranked and has losses to mighty Stanford and New Mexico.

You take those two, I'll stick with the Sooners.

[Sooner Stew]

The great thing about this board is that so many Sooner fans (new and old) can come give their two cents.

I could care less if you agree with my opinion. You know what they say about *******s...

Anyway, I lived through the 90's as many of you did. And it sucked. Personally, I'd love to see us beat every team 55-0...but it's not going to happen.

BV has put our defense in the top 25 each year since MS left. I'm okay with that. Would I love to have the #1 ranked defense year in and year out, sure...who wouldn't?! It's not going to happen...at Oklahoma or anywhere else.

If you think the introduction of the no-huddle spread isn't causing some of these defensive issues, then you just don't know much about defensive football. When over half the teams in the Big XII run it, and EVERY defense in the Big XII is ranked 34 or lower, that tells you something.

The old "the Big XII doesn't play defense" theory is laughable. Since when?

Like I said, I don't for a minute think we have a great defense. But I do think we have a defense that can get us where we want to go. Losing Reggie Smith, Lewis Baker, D.J. Wolfe, Marcus Walker, Demarrio Pleasant, Curtis Lofton and Ryan Reynolds couldn't possibly be the cause for this could it?!

Some of you need to go back and read Sooner04's post from a couple of weeks ago...just to remember how things were (and how they could be again). If you still aren't "happy" with this defense, a #4 ranking and still alive in the title hunt...then you'll never be "happy".

I second this...maybe yall will listen to this guy...I know nobody will listen to me b/c Ive just started to really get into this forum...anyways great post

[8timechamps]

I second this...maybe yall will listen to this guy...I know nobody will listen to me b/c Ive just started to really get into this forum...anyways great post

I've been on here for years, and they don't listen to me either.


You get used to it.:P

[Sooner Stew]

Well its nice to know that I share the same views with at least one veteran on this forum

[8timechamps]

Well its nice to know that I share the same views with at least on veteran on this forum

You didn't read all the posts in this thread did you? It clearly states that my opinion of food, music and pretty much everything else sucks...:D

To much of that, I don't disagree.

[Sooner Stew]

You didn't read all the posts in this thread did you? It clearly states that my opinion of food, music and pretty much everything else sucks...:D

To much of that, I don't disagree.

I dont care about all of that but you said what EVERYONE on here needs to read

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Get a Room!

[The Remnant]

8TIMECHAMPS, your point is well-taken. And I am not saying that anybody should be fired. I realize that the Arizona offense does not compare to the offenses of the BIG 12. But there is a big difference in the level of intensity between the Arizona/USC defenses and that of OU. USC has an in-your-face,slobberknocker defense and OU's seems to be more of a finesse, bend- don't-break defense. I know that there are many on this board who know alot more about this than I do. I'm just a diehard sooner fan living in Socal who wants OU to win. This is just my perception for what its worth.

[tulsaoilerfan]

I think the disappointing thing about the defense is how easily other teams are scoring TD's this season, as compared to FG's in the past; hell i remember having this argument about how many yards we were giving up in certain games from past seasons, but the d would at least keep other teams out of the end zone; we just don't have that ability this season

[okiewaker]

The offenses in this league are making the defenses look really bad, right now. It's easy to see that the DC's for the B12 have not yet figured it out. Give'em time. In the meantime, we just need to hang on. Maybe, just maybe, our DC will figure it out.

[85sooners]

Heh, look at the numbers put up in the SEC today... great defenses my ***
:gary:

[the_ouskull]

We're a Top 25(ish) defense with Top 5-10 recruits. They're playing undisciplined, and they're being poorly coached. If it takes us going back to slow, creaky guys to play well, bring 'em on. Yes, a win is a win... but a loss is a loss, too, and, if we keep playing the way that we've played on defense so far this season, we can expect that loss. It's just a matter of "when." Typically, it's been against one team during the season, and then against whoever we play in our bowl game. The last time we won a bowl game based on a defensive effort was when Mike Stoops was still on staff.

Sure, we won a bowl game against Oregon, but that was due to an outstanding athletic play by an athletic defender... not because he was in great position or anything. If his vertical leap had been 1" lower, that was going to go for six.

I'd be comfortable with bringing in someone else to scheme the defense and let BV coach fundamentals, since SOMEBODY needs to, and he's as good a candidate as anybody...

(That's something that the rest of you should start doing too, by the way. Try to find a way to say BV's name and the word "candidate" in the same sentence as often as possible. Maybe we can get him a head coaching job subliminally.)

the_ouskull

[RedstickSooner]

Again, the argument that, "The big 12 is hard. They throw the ball too much. We suck because they're big meaniepants." would only hold water if we were superb by big 12 standards.

We aren't.

We are, what, 5th or 6th best amongst Big-12 teams in total defense during Big-12 play?

Everyone in the Big-12 has to play Big-12 teams, so when you compare conference stats, you're grading on a curve which allows for the "meaniepants" factor.

Even by that standard, we're mediocre. Mediocre isn't good enough, this ain't BVs first season, it isn't like he hasn't had a chance. He had one pretty decent defensive season -- 2006, and I don't see how going 1 for 5 is enough to keep his job around here.

Heck, I think I'd be pretty content with 3 of 5. Give me a solid, menacing defense 60 percent of the time, and I'll be happy. He hasn't. I'm not.

[snp]

Even by that standard, we're mediocre. Mediocre isn't good enough, this ain't BVs first season, it isn't like he hasn't had a chance. He had one pretty decent defensive season -- 2006, and I don't see how going 1 for 5 is enough to keep his job around here.

Heck, I think I'd be pretty content with 3 of 5. Give me a solid, menacing defense 60 percent of the time, and I'll be happy. He hasn't. I'm not.

Really?

National/Conference ranking

Scoring Defense:

2004: 11/1
2005: 37/4
2006: 19/1
2007: 19/2

Total Defense:

2004: 13/1
2005: 13/3
2006: 16/1
2007: 26/2

[DUCKHUNTDAVE]

Really?

National/Conference ranking

Scoring Defense:

2004: 11/1
2005: 37/4
2006: 19/1
2007: 19/2

Total Defense:

2004: 13/1
2005: 13/3
2006: 16/1
2007: 26/2

nice reply, however, these rankings are not good enough. We're OU.

we should be no less than 2 every year in the Big 12, and no deeper than 10 nationally. again, we're the Sooners. Conference is made up of aggies, baylor, Kstate, a decade down Nebraska, etc, and we finish 3rd or 4th? Ridiculous. We have top 5 talent in the country. We should have top 5 offense and defense, if we have top 5 coaching and execution. Getting a little tiresome seeing these offenses gang rape the Sooners defense this season. Everyone was raving about all the speed we have/had. Why can't we use this speed? Something needs to change. Someone needs to start coaching this Defense or we may lose 2 more times before the end of the season, and suffer a 5th st8 embarrassment in a bowl game. All these excuses we're making for ourselves, reminds me of Horn fans. Disgusting.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

heh

[Sooner_Havok]

heh

yup, I'm going home now.

[BoulderSooner79]

8TIMECHAMPS, your point is well-taken. And I am not saying that anybody should be fired. I realize that the Arizona offense does not compare to the offenses of the BIG 12. But there is a big difference in the level of intensity between the Arizona/USC defenses and that of OU. USC has an in-your-face,slobberknocker defense and OU's seems to be more of a finesse, bend- don't-break defense. I know that there are many on this board who know alot more about this than I do. I'm just a diehard sooner fan living in Socal who wants OU to win. This is just my perception for what its worth.

It's very hard to compare USC and OU on defense this year because of the different opponents. I don't think USC will play a really good offense during the regular season. OU has played 2 with 2 more to go. And 'SC probably has the most talent on defense in the country - certainly more talent than OU does. Combine the talent with weaker opponents and 'SC can play an aggressive style of defense and just over-whelm their opponents and not worry about getting burned very often. I haven't seen another D in any conference good enough to play that way. LSU tries to do that and they have 2 losses where the opponent put 50pts on the board.

[boomermagic]

It's really simple, at least for this OU grad it is... the spread offenses are very good... but you can't play cover 2 zone against a spread offense unless you are absolutely sure you have a pass rush that can get to the QB and force him to make mistakes, and you have an all-world safety that will knock the daylights out of the receivers should they find themselves open in the seams. We have neither...

TT is going to be a very difficult game. We have to hope Wilson has a good day calling plays because we are going to need all the points we can get.


Bingo !!!


We may be looking at a Holiday bowl year.. I'm not ready to give up yet though...

[8timechamps]

Really?

National/Conference ranking

Scoring Defense:

2004: 11/1
2005: 37/4
2006: 19/1
2007: 19/2

Total Defense:

2004: 13/1
2005: 13/3
2006: 16/1
2007: 26/2

Some people don't care if we are among the best in the rankings. They won't be happy unless we're beating everyone 77-0 and have the #1 ranked offense and defense.

The funny thing is, Stoops apparently doesn't have such a problem with BV (supported by the fact that he is still here after all those "mediocre" seasons). He knows a hell of a lot more about the situation than any of us do or will. I'll trust his judgment and enjoy the #4 ranking.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Could anyone else imagine the hilarity of USC's two 250-260 lb linebackers chasing around Texas Tech wide receivers?

[starclassic tama]

Rather than relying on statistics to prove or disprove a point, just compare our tackling with other schools. Watch the poor tackling that went on in the KSU game and compare that with the slobberknockers that were meted out in the Arizona/USC game. There's no comparison. Throw the stats out the window. Just watch how well those two teams tackle.

http://www.dotbingo.com/images/bingo-card.jpg


edit: gandalf - hilarity? SC has two GREAT linebackers, and the NFL draft will agree. i don't think it would be very hilarious watching 260 lb rey mauluga with his 4.5 speed run around smashing tech's receivers. i hate USC as much as the next guy, but come on they have two great linebackers, and a great defense.

[SoonerStormchaser]

I saw the title and thought:
http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/6563/arnold7wh.jpg

[cvsooner]

Pete Carroll and SC, as much as I hate to say it, are money in a bowl game...with one exception...and that one was really close.

[JLEW1818]

Graham Harrell could have a career day against us.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I am just saying that 260 LB monster Mauluga did not exactly destroy a vastly inferior Oregon St receiving core with his 4.5 speed. I can't imagine he would fare much better with Tech small and quick wideouts a WHOLE lot better. Their great defense got scorched by OREGON St....not the Dallas Cowboys just so you guys remember...

[Sasakwa]

From what I saw today, the D is gambling too much. Jumping routes, trying to make a pick on every play isn't the ans

Which is great if you make the pick, but when you whiff, not only does the WR make the catch, there is no one there to tackle him.

[Sasakwa]

Are the Big XII offenses great? Sure. Does that make the defense's numbers acceptable? Not so much.

Baylor scored 17 on OU. In conference, they scored 6 on OSU, and 20 on NU. OOC they only got 13 on Wake Forest.

Texas scored 45. In conference, they had 38 against CU, 28 against OSU. OOC, UTEP held them to less (42).

Kansas scored 31. They put up 30 on CU and only 21 against Tech. OOC, LaTech (yes, LaTech) held them to less points (29).

Kansas St. scored 35. But only 28 against Tech and only 13 on CU. OOC, Louisville held them to 29.

That is 7 games where Colorado, Oklahoma St and Texas Tech held common opponents to less points. Do Colorado, Oklahoma St and Texas Tech have better defensive recruits over the last 3-4 years? Are Colorado, Oklahoma St and Texas Tech known as the defensive juggernauts of the Big XII?

That is not a small sampling of games. It IS the defense.

[yermom]

we were already thin at linebacker. we knew that.

we also have young corners

stabbings and other injuries haven't helped the D-Line either

the offense scoring quickly and bad special teams play have made these numbers worse as well

[8timechamps]

we were already thin at linebacker. we knew that.

we also have young corners

stabbings and other injuries haven't helped the D-Line either

the offense scoring quickly and bad special teams play have made these numbers worse as well

Dude,
You're making sense. Some people don't understand that.