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swardboy
10/24/2008, 09:31 AM
What has BHO done that causes you to vote for him?

OKLA21FAN
10/24/2008, 09:33 AM
ran for President :pop:

oumartin
10/24/2008, 09:33 AM
It does not matter, he has this election in his pocket. Lets just move on

froneal
10/24/2008, 09:41 AM
It was a pretty close call up until McCain picked Palin. Had he picked a moderate VP (someone more like himself) I think the race right now would be neck-and-neck. He gave in to the religious right and "strengthened the base" of the Republicans, but at the cost of neglecting all those moderates, independents and lost Hillary voters, and it really hurt him. He's not the same McCain as 2000. If he were to die in office, Palin would run the country into the ground.

Partial Qualifier
10/24/2008, 09:44 AM
Seriously, another one of these?

Look - he's the Democrat nominee and "Republican President" might as well be a four-letter-word in the minds of the voting majority this year. There's your ultimate deciding factor.

StoopTroup
10/24/2008, 09:46 AM
He wrote a couple of pretty decent books and has held strong on the fact that he didn't vote for this colossal ****-up folks call a War...plus he took on Hillary.

Taking out Hillary shows he's smart and has the balls to be POTUS IMO.

All I heard prior to him getting into the race was OMG...they are going to elect Hillary in '08....the end of the World is upon us!

Then he entered...knocked her out of the race...

And...

Those same people are screaming...'It's the end of the World".

That part of it cracks me up.

swardboy
10/24/2008, 09:46 AM
It does not matter, he has this election in his pocket. Lets just move on

The most accurate pollster of 2004 says:

McCain has cut into Obama's lead for a second day and is now just 1.1 points behind. The spread was 3.7 Wednesday and 6.0 Tuesday. The Republican is making headway with middle- and working- class voters, and has surged 10 points in two days among those earning between $30,000 and $75,000. He has also gone from an 11-point deficit to a 9-point lead among Catholics.
ibdeditorials.com

OklahomaTuba
10/24/2008, 09:47 AM
Not a supporter of socialism here, but IMO its cause he comes across as someone who isn't the establishment.

That appears to appeal to many who don't fully understand the consequences of electing a radical leftist on their everyday life.

The next two years will be really hard, and I think the markets are responding to that reality.

OklahomaTuba
10/24/2008, 09:49 AM
It was a pretty close call up until McCain picked Palin.
Actually, the moment he picked Palin, he started leading Obama in the polls.

It wasn't until the market started crashing that he gave up his lead.

Palin is the only reason he isn't losing by 20-30 points, as the conservative base would just stay home this year.

swardboy
10/24/2008, 09:51 AM
He wrote a couple of pretty decent books and has held strong on the fact that he didn't vote for this colossal ****-up folks call a War...plus he took on Hillary.

Taking out Hillary shows he's smart and has the balls to be POTUS IMO.



Was he a Senator when the war vote was taken?

Taking out the most untrusted pol in America qualifies one as Prez?

OklahomaTuba
10/24/2008, 09:52 AM
Taking out Hillary shows he's smart and has the balls to be POTUS IMO.

Thats not a very high bar to set there.

Hillary was horrible.

StoopTroup
10/24/2008, 09:52 AM
How many abortions had Obama's Wife had?

Would that be pertinent to his view on Abortion?

Has anyone point blank asked her?

I bet that would be YouTube's Top Video of the Year.

I can see the steam coming out of her ears just thinking about it.

What about Cindy McCain?

Heck...lets get em both in front of the camera and ask them at the same time.

I think it would be classic.

Kind of a nice opening question to those two debating the abortion issue.

Get it all out on the table.

That's the kind of 1st Lady I'm looking for...

I'm just kidding about the debate part...let's just find someone who'll ask the question...hmmmm...what's Howard Sterns email addy?

BRB ;)

StoopTroup
10/24/2008, 09:55 AM
Was he a Senator when the war vote was taken?

Taking out the most untrusted pol in America qualifies one as Prez?

He was a Senator during the War wasn't he?

Has he voted for anything that continued to string this thing out?

What poll are you talking about Sward?

Did I mention any poll in my answer?

Before you muther ****'n post read my answer...lol

froneal
10/24/2008, 09:55 AM
Actually, the moment he picked Palin, he started leading Obama in the polls.


It meant in my own opinion, it was close up until then. I think she's a friggin' nutbar. I miss the McCain of 2000. :O

JohnnyMack
10/24/2008, 09:59 AM
Didn't we have this exact thread like 12 hours ago?

swardboy
10/24/2008, 10:00 AM
He was a Senator during the War wasn't he?

Has he voted for anything that continued to string this thing out?

What poll are you talking about Sward?

Did I mention any poll in my answer?

Before you muther ****'n post read my answer...lol

"Pol"...short for "politician" dumb*** :D

We'll never know how bho would have acted on the actual vote...trends indicate "Present"

I love your suggestion for a candidates' wives debate...that would absolutely rock!!!

JohnnyMack
10/24/2008, 10:00 AM
Actually, the moment he picked Palin, he started leading Obama in the polls.

It wasn't until the market started crashing that he gave up his lead.

Palin is the only reason he isn't losing by 20-30 points, as the conservative base would just stay home this year.

Wrong. His numbers started sliding BEFORE the markets crashed.

JohnnyMack
10/24/2008, 10:00 AM
The most accurate pollster of 2004 says:
ibdeditorials.com

See if you can find the massive error he made on that poll. It should be easy to spot.

StoopTroup
10/24/2008, 10:09 AM
"Pol"...short for "politician" dumb*** :D

I love your suggestion for a candidates' wives debate...that would absolutely rock!!!

BTW...you might want to also read the speech he gave at the October 2002 Speech he did...it was a pretty bold statement for a guy that has come all this way to possibly be the next POTUS.

It sure hasn't seemed to hurt him any either...


"I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances. The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil.

I Don't Oppose All Wars

I don't oppose all wars. My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton's army. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil.

I don't oppose all wars. After September 11, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this administration's pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy from happening again.

Opposed to Dumb, Rash Wars

I don't oppose all wars. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income, to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

On Saddam Hussein

Now let me be clear: I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power.... The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors...and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.

I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences.

I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.

I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars. So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the president.

You Want a Fight, President Bush?

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to make sure that...we vigorously enforce a nonproliferation treaty, and that former enemies and current allies like Russia safeguard and ultimately eliminate their stores of nuclear material, and that nations like Pakistan and India never use the terrible weapons already in their possession, and that the arms merchants in our own country stop feeding the countless wars that rage across the globe.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to make sure our so-called allies in the Middle East, the Saudis and the Egyptians, stop oppressing their own people, and suppressing dissent, and tolerating corruption and inequality, and mismanaging their economies so that their youth grow up without education, without prospects, without hope, the ready recruits of terrorist cells.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to wean ourselves off Middle East oil through an energy policy that doesn't simply serve the interests of Exxon and Mobil.

Those are the battles that we need to fight. Those are the battles that we willingly join. The battles against ignorance and intolerance. Corruption and greed. Poverty and despair."

I myself though it was pretty good.

Just sayin'

OklahomaTuba
10/24/2008, 10:13 AM
It meant in my own opinion, it was close up until then. I think she's a friggin' nutbar. I miss the McCain of 2000. :O

Obama was up 12 pts the days before Palin was selected.

McCain had the lead in the next week and held it for a few weeks.

Not sure why you think she is a nutbar though. You may want to re-examine your thoughts there as well.

swardboy
10/24/2008, 10:14 AM
Yeah, yeah...he's for wwII, chasing ben laden, etc. NO ACTION.

OklahomaTuba
10/24/2008, 10:17 AM
BTW...you might want to also read the speech he gave at the October 2002 Speech he did...it was a pretty bold statement for a guy that has come all this way to possibly be the next POTUS.

It sure hasn't seemed to hurt him any either...



I myself though it was pretty good.

Just sayin'

Good thing he has Colin Powell on his team then!

So basically, running for President and giving a speech = Presidential material??

How about telling us all something he has actually accomplished that didn't include running for President or reading off a telepromter?

swardboy
10/24/2008, 10:17 AM
Stoup Troop's the only one focused so far: WROTE 2 books, won an election....

BTW...one of his books talks about taking a walk and watching the Hudson River display an unusual characteristic: The appearance of going two ways at once (something to do with tide phenomena)...almost an exact excerpt from a William Ayers' book...hmmm.

StoopTroup
10/24/2008, 10:21 AM
Stoup Troop's the only one focused so far: WROTE 2 books, won an election....

BTW...one of his books talks about taking a walk and watching the Hudson River display an unusual characteristic: The appearance of going two ways at once (something to do with tide phenomena)...almost an exact excerpt from a William Ayers' book...hmmm.

Well...he is edujumacated.

JohnnyMack
10/24/2008, 10:27 AM
While you people have been wringing your hands over what a damned dirty devil Obama is did you notice that polls in Ohio have an Obama lean and now North Dakota and Montana have gone from McCain lean to toss-up. Keep up the negative campaigning, it's working!

OU4LIFE
10/24/2008, 10:32 AM
if you think ANY of the talk on these message boards matters....you are insane.

srsly

StoopTroup
10/24/2008, 10:34 AM
if you think ANY of the talk on these message boards matters....you are insane.

srsly

So why are you pointing it out then?

Jus wonerin'? :D

froneal
10/24/2008, 10:35 AM
Obama was up 12 pts the days before Palin was selected.

McCain had the lead in the next week and held it for a few weeks.

Not sure why you think she is a nutbar though. You may want to re-examine your thoughts there as well.

I'm not talking about the polls... I'm saying I liked McCain and Obama evenly until he picked Palin. She's been nothing but bad news ever since she was picked. Her daughter's pregnancy by a complete idiot, the Bridge to Nowhere scandal, the dismissal of the Alaskan public safety commissioner ("Troopergate"), the vice presidential debate where she sputtered and stammered and changed the subject dozens of times, the many TV interviews where she shows she has little or no idea of what she's talking about... the hits just keep on coming, and it's really sad.

I'm a moderate, so for me it's easy to write off Palin as a mistake because her views are nowhere near mine. McCain of 2000 was a total badass and with picking Palin it felt like a cheap way to pander to evangelicals and family voters without really researching it. Or maybe it was thought that women just really, really wanted a woman in the White House, and all those moderate Hillary voters would swoon over his VP choice, but I don't think that's been the case at all.

leavingthezoo
10/24/2008, 10:35 AM
jeez louise, people. how many times are you going to request obama supporters explain themselves. it's never going to be to your satisfaction. remember? we're either black, white apologists, uneducated, overeducated, ignorant, scholarly, CNN drones, fair and balanced FOX news hatin', socialist, lazy bums who watch jerry springer, haughty latte drinkin', prius drivin' elitists, american hatin, terrorist sympathizing, against guns and God fake christians who should just get the hell out of this country if we don't like it.

There... you guys should be happy with that answer.

swardboy
10/24/2008, 10:37 AM
OK, my work is done here....there is no rational defense of Obama from the "Accomplishment/Experience" argument.

I'm no big McCain fan. In fact, I almost loathe the man on some levels. But doesn't our country deserve more than an experiment in the Presidency?

I had a college football coach that I despised. But the man led us to a 12-0 season. I defer to his experience that qualified him in developing a championship team.

leavingthezoo
10/24/2008, 10:43 AM
OK, my work is done here....there is no rational defense of Obama from the "Accomplishment/Experience" argument.

I'm no big McCain fan. In fact, I almost loathe the man on some levels. But doesn't our country deserve more than an experiment in the Presidency?

I had a college football coach that I despised. But the man led us to a 12-0 season. I defer to his experience that qualified him in developing a championship team.

you know, you're work is not done here. in fact, you haven't done any work at all. there are a plethora of other threads that discuss in great detail many of the reasons people are voting for obama. so, honestly, get off your high horse and read rather than pretending these points haven't been discussed thoroughly.

OklahomaTuba
10/24/2008, 10:59 AM
She's been nothing but bad news ever since she was picked.

And somehow, a guy with ZERO experience except being really close to a terrorist, sitting in a racist Church for 20+ years, and belonging to a socialist political party called "The New Party" is some how better????

My Opinion Matters
10/24/2008, 11:01 AM
LTZ, I love you.

swardboy
10/24/2008, 11:04 AM
you know, you're work is not done here. in fact, you haven't done any work at all. there are a plethora of other threads that discuss in great detail many of the reasons people are voting for obama. so, honestly, get off your high horse and read rather than pretending these points haven't been discussed thoroughly.

No, no one presents a compelling reason to vote for Barack based on accomplishment. So you're pretty much wrong. I haven't tried to raise other issues here.

TheHumanAlphabet
10/24/2008, 11:09 AM
plus he took on Hillary.

Taking out Hillary shows he's smart and has the balls to be POTUS IMO.

His primary election strategery was brilliant. Stay away from Clinton's base areas and focus on the smaller state primaries and whittle away at her base. Brilliant. That and Clinton's expectation of annointment was simply amazing. I would have to say there, he certainly had the smarts around him. No whether that translates to doind well as POTUS, I am not sure.

leavingthezoo
10/24/2008, 11:12 AM
No, no one presents a compelling reason to vote for Barack based on accomplishment. So you're pretty much wrong. I haven't tried to raise other issues here.

i'll meet you half way and say a specific "obama experience" thread has not been written, but i will not concede that this very topic has not been discussed in a myriad of other threads.

the problem is... you want a compelling answer to meet your expectations, and the reality is... there will not be one because you cannot be compelled.

froneal
10/24/2008, 11:19 AM
And somehow, a guy with ZERO experience except being really close to a terrorist, sitting in a racist Church for 20+ years, and belonging to a socialist political party called "The New Party" is some how better????

He was never "really close" to Ayers. There are countless threads here on soonerfans alone of people proving their non-existent "relationship." They live in the same neighborhood. They were on the same board for three years. They did 2 education panels together. It amounts to absolutely nothing. There are quotes on wikipedia from the federal prosecutor of the Weathermen case in the 1970s and from a huge critic of Ayers who both say this is a non-issue. It seriously does not matter, especially considering that Ayers was never convicted of a crime.

I agree about Wright, he's crazy.

As far as The New Party, I was under the assumption that their primary goal was to implement electoral fusion as a new way of voting across the country. When that didn't work and the Supreme Court decided electoral fusion wasn't a given right, the party effectively dissolved. But please enlighten me on Obama's radical misgivings.

What about McCain's associations with Watergater G. Gordon Liddy? The guy who was convicted and sentenced to 20 years in prison (of which he served 5.5) for conspiracy, burglarly and illegal wiretapping for his part in the scandal. The guy who, on his radio show while the ATF invaded the Branch Dividian camp in Waco, said to "go for the head shot" in order to "kill those sons of bitches" should ATF agents ever come busting through your door. The guy who McCain said he was "proud" of for "adhering to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great."

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. No candidate is perfect. The fact is, we shouldn't be dwelling on past associations with shady characters, and yet these non-issues are brought up again and again. There's so much ****ed up stuff happening in the world today, and the Republicans have done nothing to prove they know how to fix any of it (and neither have the Democrats). We don't know what's going to happen when either one of the candidates is elected, but I do know that I'm not going to be swayed by half-baked rumors, allegations and downright indefensible bull**** that should have no bearing on the election. I'm going to vote strictly by the issues, and anyone that doesn't vote that way doesn't deserve to vote, IMHO.

soonerscuba
10/24/2008, 11:21 AM
Girls on Film is the most annoying Duran Duran song of the many annoying Duran Duran songs.

froneal
10/24/2008, 11:22 AM
Girls on Film is the most annoying Duran Duran song of the many annoying Duran Duran songs.

Agreed. :P

froneal
10/24/2008, 11:24 AM
I think we can all agree that this is all Brian Britt's fault. ;)

OklahomaTuba
10/24/2008, 11:27 AM
The fact is, we shouldn't be dwelling on past associations with shady characters

Why not?

What if McCain had started his political career from Timothy McVeigh or the Unibombers living room?? should we be ignoring that??

What if McCain had been going to Fred Phelps Church for 20+ years, should we ignore that as well???

Decisions to hang with the likes of Ayers and Rev. Wright speak to the judgement of our new President. Guess we should ignore all that though, huh?

swardboy
10/24/2008, 11:30 AM
i'll meet you half way and say a specific "obama experience" thread has not been written, but i will not concede that this very topic has not been discussed in a myriad of other threads.

the problem is... you want a compelling answer to meet your expectations, and the reality is... there will not be one because you cannot be compelled.

You are EXACTLY right. :D

My opinion is that, some issues trump other issues, therefore they shouldn't be lost in the chatter. Personally, experience isn't the end-all issue to me. For example, I think Biden's zillion years in the Senate are "experience" doing basically the wrong things. However, it is such a glaring issue in this election that I believe it over-rides all other issues imho.

At least it's what enables ME to stomach supporting McNasty. That, and Biden popping off that a BHO win insures a crisis within 6 months because of it.

OklahomaTuba
10/24/2008, 11:31 AM
At least Hugo will love us.

froneal
10/24/2008, 11:33 AM
Why not?

What if McCain had started his political career from Timothy McVeigh or the Unibombers living room?? should we be ignoring that??

What if McCain had been going to Fred Phelps Church for 20+ years, should we ignore that as well???

Decisions to hang with the likes of Ayers and Rev. Wright speak to the judgement of our new President. Guess we should ignore all that though, huh?

So do the associations of McCain and Liddy and his involvement with the Charles Keating debacle in the late 80s. And yet no one brings these things up because they happened 20+ years ago. Does that make them less wrong somehow? Does time truly heal all wounds?

I think McVeigh setting a bomb that killed 168 innocent people and a guy who was a part of a group that bombed federal buildings and banks (and warned people to evacuate ahead of time) in a statement of defiance against U.S. occupation of Vietnam do not equate. But bombs are bombs, so it's the same, of course. Forget that Ayers wasn't convicted of any crime and that McVeigh was executed and they're practically the same guy.

I really should just stop before I get too far into this. You vote for McCain, I'll vote for Obama and we'll see what happens Nov. 4. These threads attract drama like flies on ****.

Partial Qualifier
10/24/2008, 11:35 AM
jeez louise, people. how many times are you going to request obama supporters explain themselves. it's never going to be to your satisfaction. remember? we're either black, white apologists, uneducated, overeducated, ignorant, scholarly, CNN drones, fair and balanced FOX news hatin', socialist, lazy bums who watch jerry springer, haughty latte drinkin', prius drivin' elitists, american hatin, terrorist sympathizing, against guns and God fake christians who should just get the hell out of this country if we don't like it.

There... you guys should be happy with that answer.

Thank you for finally being honest. ;)

Now, please, cease your Arcade activity. Immeejetley.

leavingthezoo
10/24/2008, 01:02 PM
You are EXACTLY right. :D

DON'T TRY TO MAKE UP WITH ME NOW, MISTER!! :mad:

leavingthezoo
10/24/2008, 01:02 PM
Thank you for finally being honest. ;)

Now, please, cease your Arcade activity. Immeejetley.

YOU BETTER TRY TO MAKE UP WITH ME NOW, MISTER! :mad:

Partial Qualifier
10/24/2008, 02:29 PM
YOU BETTER TRY TO MAKE UP WITH ME NOW, MISTER! :mad:

Candy? Flowers? vCash? :)





Arcade high-score tips? :D









you know I love you. Isn't that enough? :)

Vaevictis
10/24/2008, 02:34 PM
What if McCain had started his political career from Timothy McVeigh or the Unibombers living room?? should we be ignoring that??

Pfft, we all overlook that sort of thing.

Israel has always had leadership at all levels which has either held membership in terrorist groups, or have held open affiliation with people who held membership in terrorist groups.

McCain has had open and proud affiliation with many of these same people. Is that a problem for you?

Frozen Sooner
10/24/2008, 03:15 PM
The most accurate pollster of 2004 says:
ibdeditorials.com

That IBD showed something like a 72-28 edge FOR McCain amontg voters between 18-24 makes me think that their sample was a little screwy. Like their random sample was "People we ran into at Patrick Henry University's lunchroom."

Just call it a hunch.

swardboy
10/24/2008, 04:55 PM
That IBD showed something like a 72-28 edge FOR McCain amontg voters between 18-24 makes me think that their sample was a little screwy. Like their random sample was "People we ran into at Patrick Henry University's lunchroom."

Just call it a hunch.

Heh....well I'm sure it wasn't southside Chicago.

badger
10/24/2008, 05:09 PM
Tee hee @ this:
http://cagle.com/news/BidenBigGaffe/images/bok.jpg