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Collier11
10/23/2008, 03:13 PM
I ask this with complete respect, I am just curious...

Why does it not bother you about Rezko

why does it not bother you about Ayers(especially with all the new stuff coming out showing much stronger ties than Obama has let on)

Why does the ACORN issue not bother you

Why does it not bother you that the US military and its members favor Mccain 3-1, these are the people who defend our rights

Why does it not bother you that Obamas very own VP nominee has said on two diff occasions that Obama is not fit to be president(pre-nomination) and that Obama will not only be attacked within 6 months, but he wont know how to handle it(post-nomination)

Is it an overall hatred of Bush that you just have to have change, is it that you dont believe the stuff, is it because you choose to ignore it, is there another reason?

I am seriously curious, not trying to be disrespectful or condescending in any way

shaun4411
10/23/2008, 03:15 PM
its human nature to ignore the things that go against what we want. i think the blinding hatred for bush has seeped into hatred of republians, and mccain. what's ironic is that mccain is more moderate and isnt great friends with the republican base. he can get things done on both sides, and we know what we are getting .

85Sooner
10/23/2008, 03:16 PM
I had an obamian tell me yesterday that it was to protect Roe Vs Wade. I thought......that is so ten years ago and trust me when I say that will never be a decision she has to make uggggggg

Collier11
10/23/2008, 03:18 PM
I had an obamian tell me yesterday that it was to protect Roe Vs Wade.

Thats a whole other issue that needs to be delt with

Frozen Sooner
10/23/2008, 03:20 PM
I ask this with complete respect, I am just curious...

Why does it not bother you about Rezko.

Because I don't find it particularly sinister that Tony Rezko bought an adjoining piece of property and then sold it

why does it not bother you about Ayers(especially with all the new stuff coming out showing much stronger ties than Obama has let on)

Because the Ayers stuff is completely irrelevant. He knows the guy. Why does John McCain's ties to anti-Semites and Latin American Death Squads not bother you?

Why does the ACORN issue not bother you

What ACORN issue? That some fraudulent registrations were turned in as ACORN was required to do by Federal Law even if they had reason to suspect they were fraudulent?

Why does it not bother you that the US military and its members favor Mccain 3-1, these are the people who defend our rights

Why are military donations favoring Obama over McCain? And why would this bother me anyhow?

Why does it not bother you that Obamas very own VP nominee has said on two diff occasions that Obama is not fit to be president(pre-nomination) and that Obama will not only be attacked within 6 months, but he wont know how to handle it(post-nomination)

He did not say the second. He said that he would likely be tested, not that he wouldn't know how to handle it. The first was said during a primary battle.

Is it an overall hatred of Bush that you just have to have change, is it that you dont believe the stuff, is it because you choose to ignore it, is there another reason?

I am seriously curious, not trying to be disrespectful or condescending in any way

You failed.

Condescending Sooner
10/23/2008, 03:24 PM
They could come out with videos of him snorting coke off a hookers *** and it wouldn't affect the way they vote.

C&CDean
10/23/2008, 03:25 PM
Not really Froze. You just did exactly what he expected you to do. Minimize/poo poo everything, and say "what about McCain?"

Your boy has a lot of baggage that you lovers are ignoring. Denying it, or minimizing it doesn't make it not so.

C&CDean
10/23/2008, 03:27 PM
They could come out with videos of him snorting coke off a hookers *** and it wouldn't affect the way they vote.

It would make them more fervent. It'd make him more "real" in their eyes. They're kinda weird that way.

SoonerInKCMO
10/23/2008, 03:27 PM
The 'baggage' gets minimized by supporters because they realize it's minimally important.

Collier11
10/23/2008, 03:27 PM
You failed.

Way to answer like a pompus Lib, if you want to take that tone I will with you personally

1) wool over eyes much

2) How is the Ayers stuff completely irrelevant, the guy is a Terrorist, he is an anarchist, he hates America, Obama has close ties to him...not to mention Wright. But now Obama says he had no idea, Ignorance is bliss

3)Because Obama is tied to them and they are committing voter fraud

4) It should bother you that the people defending this country think that Mccain would be a better POTUS and be better suited to handle a crisis

5) He did say the 2nd, read the whole quote...so what Biden says in the primary shouldnt be taken as fact now?

Collier11
10/23/2008, 03:28 PM
The 'baggage' gets minimized by supporters because they realize it's minimally important.

Thats the problem, these are REAL issues that you think arent important

C&CDean
10/23/2008, 03:28 PM
The 'baggage' gets minimized by supporters because they realize it's minimally important.

Really? That's how y'all do it?

85Sooner
10/23/2008, 03:30 PM
Make a lunch reservation for 2 in a couple of years for froz and Osama because the statute if limitations will be up ;)

Just kidden froz

OU4LIFE
10/23/2008, 03:30 PM
You failed.

How exactly is asking honest questions failure?

this might be the absolute dumbest post I have ever seen.

I really thought you were better than that.

leavingthezoo
10/23/2008, 03:39 PM
I ask this with complete respect, I am just curious...

Why does it not bother you about Rezko?

because buying and selling land happens everyday.

why does it not bother you about Ayers(especially with all the new stuff coming out showing much stronger ties than Obama has let on)?

I'll admit I've been working lots of overtime so I have not seen "the new" stuff. But if it is anything like the "old stuff", i suppose I'm not bothered by it anymore than you are about republican members who have worked with him.


Why does the ACORN issue not bother you?

ACORN does bother me. I think it is a rampant example of employee fraud-- wages paid for work not done. Each employee who accepted payment for fraudulent registrations should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Why does it not bother you that the US military and its members favor Mccain 3-1, these are the people who defend our rights?

So, you're saying the lesser percent should be ashamed for favoring Obama? They defend our rights also. God bless 'em.

P.S. Where do you get these figures? Family members tell me politicking is frowned upon in service, so how are these figures being comprised? (I'm not being condescending, I'm just really curious. ;))

Why does it not bother you that Obamas very own VP nominee has said on two diff occasions that Obama is not fit to be president(pre-nomination) and that Obama will not only be attacked within 6 months, but he wont know how to handle it(post-nomination)?

Because Biden was trying to win the primaries. Kinda like when Bush and cronies wanted everyone to believe John McCain was not mentally stable enough to be president. People say what will help them win. I've also never seen, heard or read about Biden saying Obama would fail when being tested. And news flash, any new president will be tested.

Is it an overall hatred of Bush that you just have to have change, is it that you dont believe the stuff, is it because you choose to ignore it, is there another reason?

Yes, there is another reason. Because I value my vote as much as you value yours, and I am fortunate enough to express that vote as I see fit.


Hope you all vote. It's great that we can. :D

85Sooner
10/23/2008, 03:40 PM
You failed.

I ask this with complete respect, I am just curious...

Why does it not bother you about Rezko.

Because I don't find it particularly sinister that Tony Rezko bought an adjoining piece of property and then sold it.

Even though Obama was in on the deal and Rezko is enjoying a federal pound *** prison as we speak. I am sure nothing went on illegal there because the prisons are filled with innocent men.

why does it not bother you about Ayers(especially with all the new stuff coming out showing much stronger ties than Obama has let on)

Because the Ayers stuff is completely irrelevant. He knows the guy. Why does John McCain's ties to anti-Semites and Latin American Death Squads not bother you? Even though he is an admitted Terrorist who has reaffirmed his anarchists wishes as recently as 2002 and Been on boards and shared decisions regarding the allocation of brain washing oops I mean education dollars as well as owning the home at which the first Obama campaign was launched. Great set of friends.

Why does the ACORN issue not bother you

One of the many meaningfull organizations Obama funneled money to.What ACORN issue? That some fraudulent registrations were turned in as ACORN was required to do by Federal Law even if they had reason to suspect they were fraudulent? Teenager was registered 73 times. VOTE EARLY VOTE OFTEN I SAY

Why does it not bother you that the US military and its members favor Mccain 3-1, these are the people who defend our rights

Why are military donations favoring Obama over McCain? And why would this bother me anyhow? Heck, who knows where all the money is coming from. I havn't talked to anyone and Obama isn't naming names.

Why does it not bother you that Obamas very own VP nominee has said on two diff occasions that Obama is not fit to be president(pre-nomination) and that Obama will not only be attacked within 6 months, but he wont know how to handle it(post-nomination)

He did not say the second. He said that he would likely be tested, not that he wouldn't know how to handle it. The first was said during a primary battle. True but other than that we need a good testing from Iran, China, Russia or one of those guys.

Is it an overall hatred of Bush that you just have to have change, is it that you dont believe the stuff, is it because you choose to ignore it, is there another reason?
DING DING DING DING DING

No seriously I think they think he can change things but change can go one of two ways and His background leads me to the conclusion that his is the WRONG way. Not that its going Great now but his policies are potentially going to do great harm to everyone.
I am seriously curious, not trying to be disrespectful or condescending in any way

JohnnyMack
10/23/2008, 03:42 PM
Does it bother any McCain/Palin supporters that Palin attends a church that among other things is know for speaking in tongues and preparing for the end of days? Or that she sat through anti-semitic sermons and was exorcised by a Kenyan Witch-Hunter?

Does it bother any McCain/Palin supporters that McCain and G. Gordon Liddy pal around together?

Does it bother any McCain/Palin supporters that Palin pulled a giant socialist deal in stripping oil companies of their wealth and then redistributed it to her people, yet she still calls Obama a socialist?

Does McCain's gambling problem and philandering ways bother anyone?

On to your post.

Why does it not bother you about Rezko

What did he do with Rezko that was illegal or wrong? If he did something illegal why didn't the USA indict Obama alongside Rezko?

why does it not bother you about Ayers(especially with all the new stuff coming out showing much stronger ties than Obama has let on)

Obama and Ayers service on that Annenberg Foundation board (the same Annenbergs who are McCain donors/supporters) means what? Seriously. When they were on that board together do you think BA was handing Obama Weather Underground pamphlets and trying to convert him? My problem with the Ayers relationship is, "so what?" Who gives a ****? It goes back to the G. Gordon Liddy argument. I mean if Obama is a terrorist because he "pals around" with Ayers, what would that make McCain? He's buddies with Liddy, does that mean he shares Gordo's views?

Why does the ACORN issue not bother you

By law the ACORN people have to turn in EVERY form that is filled out. It is up to the states to decide whether or not each form is good or not. I think ACORN was negligent in hiring people that weren't up to the task in some cases, but again, where is the smoking gun that some dip**** who got paid by the number of forms he had completed was somehow anything more than greedy and lazy? I think that the voter registration system in the U.S. should be easier and more accessible and it would minimize this kind of thing from happening, but it looks to me more like people looking to get paid quick for little work than it does a calculated effort at voter fraud.

Why does it not bother you that the US military and its members favor Mccain 3-1, these are the people who defend our rights

No. When was the last time a Military poll favored a Dem. nominee? Seriously. I don't know but I bet it's been a while. Military folks by their nature tend to be hawkish. Combine that with McCain's military service and no, I'm not bothered a bit.

Why does it not bother you that Obamas very own VP nominee has said on two diff occasions that Obama is not fit to be president(pre-nomination) and that Obama will not only be attacked within 6 months, but he wont know how to handle it(post-nomination)

People say all kinds of **** in primaries. They're trying to win. Go look at what Mitt Romney said about McCain in the primaries then get back to me. As far as the second part you've mangled what was said to bolivian. What Biden said was that Obama would face an international crisis within the first six months if elected. No ****? You think within the first six months ANY new POTUS wouldn't face some sort of international crisis? If McCain is elected will all the terrorists go Jar Jar Binks and collectively say "My give up!"?

Is it an overall hatred of Bush that you just have to have change, is it that you dont believe the stuff, is it because you choose to ignore it, is there another reason?

I don't hate Bush. I'm not fond of his policies and I'm not sorry his term is about up, but I certainly don't hate him. I boiled it down to three viable candidates earlier this year (HRC, JSM & BHO) and decided that BHO was the one who's proposals were most in line with my system of beliefs. BHO is far from my ideal candidate, but I feel that he's the best choice.

Edmond Sooner
10/23/2008, 03:43 PM
With a good many Obama voters, at this point it's moved way, way, way, way beyond "the issues" or any of those facts you pointed out, and has become an affectation. Almost like a chic accoutrement to a trendy lifestyle. That's why their tender widdle feelers get hurt at the slightest criticism of the Democratic nominee - it's as if you're criticizing their decision to wear white after labor day (no pun intended).

You think it's bad now? Just wait till he wins - and I think he will win - cause you ain't seen nothing yet. Any criticism - no matter the issue or validity of the criticism - of President Obama will bring, a priori and without hesitation, accusations of "racism," "bigotry," "hatred," blah, blah, blah. Congressman Murtha has already started the ball rolling in this regard, and the election hasn't even been held yet. But that's the tactic that will be used to try and silence critics and squelch dissent, mark my words.

C&CDean
10/23/2008, 03:43 PM
Just like a fly to ****. You can count on that Johnny Mack.

Collier11
10/23/2008, 03:48 PM
I appreciate everyones views whether I agree or not, this is what I was looking for when I started this thread...One thing though, JohhnyMack you said that I mangled Bidens quote, I didnt. I didnt say he would fail, I said that Bidens quote was that he would be tested and he would not be prepared to handle it

TUSooner
10/23/2008, 03:57 PM
One could easily say that McCain supporters are obsessed with every anti-Obama triviality they can get their hands on. Some of you are nothing but suckers for the right-wing chicken**** factories. It's not enough to tout McCain, you have to work yourselves into a berzerk anti-Obama frenzy by stoking yourselves white hot with Obama bogeyman stories.
We haven't had a perfect presidential candidate since George Washington, and we don't have any now. Lots of those imperfections just don't matter as much as you wish they did.

Collier11
10/23/2008, 04:02 PM
I speaking for myself am nothing that you just described, I know that they all have flaws but these are pretty big deals that you seem to be ignoring. The liberal attitude that if you just ignore it, it will go away is troubling. Is this the same attitude that we will have if he is elected?

JohnnyMack
10/23/2008, 04:05 PM
One could easily say that McCain supporters are obsessed with every anti-Obama triviality they can get their hands on. Some of you are nothing but suckers for the right-wing chicken**** factories. It's not enough to tout McCain, you have to work yourselves into a berzerk anti-Obama frenzy by stoking yourselves white hot with Obama bogeyman stories.
We haven't had a perfect presidential candidate since George Washington, and we don't have any now. Lots of those imperfections just don't matter as much as you wish they did.

Werd. I bet 4 out of 5 McCain supporters couldn't name 3 original proposals McCain has offered up without looking on teh innernets. But I bet they could assail you with twice as many "negatives" about Obama.

Again this election isn't about McCain. He too could be found snorting coke off the *** of a hooker and this election would still be close. People are just that fired up about hating on Obama.

C&CDean
10/23/2008, 04:07 PM
I speaking for myself am nothing that you just described, I know that they all have flaws but these are pretty big deals that you seem to be ignoring. The liberal attitude that if you just ignore it, it will go away is troubling. Is this the same attitude that we will have if he is elected?

What you need to understand is that liberals do exactly what their television tells them to do, and believe everything their TV gods say. If the TV says it ain't no big deal that the good Reverend Wright is a racist POS and that 20 years of tutelege under his direction means nothing, then by Willy, it's so. To be fair, there are a great many righties who hang on all their TV lovers every word as well. The difference is that the lefties have all the main stream TV locked up, and the righties have to resort to one network and the radio.

Condescending Sooner
10/23/2008, 04:09 PM
My post was not entirely in jest. I really think if they brought some very damning evidence, it would affect very few voters.

JohnnyMack
10/23/2008, 04:11 PM
My post was not entirely in jest. I really think if they brought some very damning evidence, it would affect very few voters.

Couldn't the same be said about McCain? I mean at least give me that.

C&CDean
10/23/2008, 04:12 PM
Werd. I bet 4 out of 5 McCain supporters couldn't name 3 original proposals McCain has offered up without looking on teh innernets. But I bet they could assail you with twice as many "negatives" about Obama.

Again this election isn't about McCain. He too could be found snorting coke off the *** of a hooker and this election would still be close. People are just that fired up about hating on Obama.

I don't hate Obama. I just think he's less qualified to be the president than any candidate in the history of elections. You guys bash Palin (who ain't even running for prez) and your boy has less on his resume than her, with all the added baggage to boot.

I'm voting for McCain because he's a combat veteran, a conservative (kinda-sorta), and he sure as hell beats what he's running against.

SleestakSooner
10/23/2008, 04:13 PM
I do not believe most of those issues are true or relevant to the discussion. If you want to judge a man by his prior associates and neighbors then John Sidney McCain is just as guilty of making poor decisions about those with whom he crawls into bed and does business (Keating, Liddy, etc.)

Once again from FactCheck.org, a completely independent website:

Tony Rezko

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/rezko_reality.html


William Ayers

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he_lied_about_bill_ayers.html



ACORN

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/acorn_accusations.html


Military personell back McCain 3-1?



John McCain's Imaginary Military Support

by Brandon Friedman (http://brandon-friedman.dailykos.com/)

Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 04:32:51 AM CST

Donít let anyone fool you into believing that John McCain is some sort of pied piper whoís gained the unquestioning allegiance of the military and veteransí communities. I know thatís how they like to portray it on the cable news shows, but itís just not true. I also realize lots of Republicans have a vested interest in seeing John McCain cast as the patron saint of Militaria, but the numbers just arenít there.

Sorry.

I took a look at the CNN exit poll results for each primary state with at least two major military installations. Of the Republican respondents who stated they had served in the military at some point, here are the percentages who voted for McCain:
VA51% (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#VAREP)LA47% (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#LAREP)CA 46% (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#CAREP)FL 42% (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#FLREP)OK 42% (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#OKREP)MO 39% (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#MOREP)GA 37% (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#GAREP)
Kind of anemic--and not what many would expect.
Conversely, here are the percentages of those Republican veterans who voted for "Not McCain":
VA49% (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#VAREP)LA53% (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#LAREP)CA 54% (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#CAREP)FL 58% (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#FLREP)OK 58% (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#OKREP)MO 61% (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#MOREP)GA 63% (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#GAREP)
Wow. Coupled with the fact that both Ron Paul and Barack Obama have raised more money from the military community (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2007-09-13-military-donors_N.htm) than John McCain, it seems clear that there is no ongoing love affair between the military and Mr. Bomb-bomb-bomb/Hundred Years Guy.
And thatís just the empirical data. Anecdotally, everybody I talk to in the military thinks John McCain is out of touch, largely irrational, and a threat to the health and well-being of our Armed Forces.
Just thought Iíd throw that out there.



On Biden's comments about Barack Obama's rediness to be President

He was going after Obama's one weakness at the time but Democrats didn't see it that way now, and most Americans are not that concerned about it now if you believe the majority of the polls out there.

You also misquote Biden by saying he claimed the US would be attacked because other nations will want to test him. That is not what he said.



Biden said in a fundraiser in Seattle this week that the world would quickly throw up a test for Obama, much as president John F. Kennedy was tested by the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis.
"Mark my words, it will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy," Biden said.
"The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America.
"If you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."

And unlike Palin/McCain, how did Biden imagine Obama would fare in such a scenario?



Biden, however, reached a different conclusion: He said Obama would fare well in such tests because he's "got steel in his spine."


It's all out there, the facts are easy to find if you pull your head out of Fox New's *** for a minute and turn down the Limbaugh rhetoric for a while.

I actually like McCain compared to most of the other candidates this election cycle. He chose a horrible running mate and began pandering to the right as soon as he won the nomination. He can't hold a candle to either Biden or Obama and has floundered around all over the beach looking for an economic message.

Frozen Sooner
10/23/2008, 04:16 PM
How exactly is asking honest questions failure?

this might be the absolute dumbest post I have ever seen.

I really thought you were better than that.

Because saying "With all due respect, how do you ignore Sean Hannity Bull**** Talking Points 1-9 that have already been addressed several times. I mean, with all due respect, I can't believe you ignore these things!" isn't asking an honest question.

C&CDean
10/23/2008, 04:17 PM
He can't hold a candle to either Biden or Obama[/LEFT]

You were doing OK until here. Can't hold a candle doing what? Pimping? This is where you went complete bull**** on us.

JohnnyMack
10/23/2008, 04:17 PM
I actually like McCain compared to most of the other candidates this election cycle. He chose a horrible running mate and began pandering to the right as soon as he won the nomination. He can't hold a candle to either Biden or Obama and has floundered around all over the beach looking for an economic message.


If John McCain had picked either Tom Ridge or Kay Bailey Hutchison and finally driven the stake in the far right once and for all he probably would have won this election.

Frozen Sooner
10/23/2008, 04:18 PM
Way to answer like a pompus Lib, if you want to take that tone I will with you personally
Is it an overall hatred of Bush that you just have to have change, is it that you dont believe the stuff, is it because you choose to ignore it, is there another reason?

Ask an ******* question, get an ******* answer.

C&CDean
10/23/2008, 04:19 PM
If John McCain had picked either Tom Ridge or Kay Bailey Hutchison and finally driven the stake in the far right once and for all he probably would have won this election.

Bull****. You were voting on your boy since day 1. And by "far right" do you mean religious folks?

olevetonahill
10/23/2008, 04:22 PM
Man this thread went to hell In a hurry :rolleyes:
From askin to McCain bashing .:D

Frozen Sooner
10/23/2008, 04:27 PM
Way to answer like a pompus Lib, if you want to take that tone I will with you personally

1) wool over eyes much

2) How is the Ayers stuff completely irrelevant, the guy is a Terrorist, he is an anarchist, he hates America, Obama has close ties to him...not to mention Wright. But now Obama says he had no idea, Ignorance is bliss

3)Because Obama is tied to them and they are committing voter fraud

4) It should bother you that the people defending this country think that Mccain would be a better POTUS and be better suited to handle a crisis

5) He did say the 2nd, read the whole quote...so what Biden says in the primary shouldnt be taken as fact now?

1) So exactly what is this sinister Tony Rezko connection? Explain it to me. 'Cause as near as I can tell, a guy who ended up going to federal prison raised money for Obama and bought a piece of land in an independent transaction next to the Obamas' home.

2) What "close ties?" He served on a board that met four times a year and attended a party for an incumbent who was declining to run again in Ayers' apartment.

3) No, they are committing voter registration fraud, which is a different issue. ACORN is required to turn in ALL voter registrations they receive under federal law-federal law enacted, I might add, because a Republican group was discarding legitimate registrations for Democrats. As it happens, ACORN submits all suspicious registrations under a cover sheet so that they're easy to find by election officials.

4) Do you have any proof of this assertion? Because the ones that vote with their pocketbook disagree with you. Regardless, what about the people in the military who aren't voting for McCain? Are they not protecting our freedom?

5) "Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy. And he's gonna have to make some really tough -- I don't know what the decision's gonna be, but I promise you it will occur. As a student of history and having served with seven presidents, I guarantee you it's gonna happen," Biden continued.

The Delaware senator's remarks were the second of their kind over the weekend. At a fundraiser in San Francisco, Biden said Obama's challengers will "find out this guy's got steel in his spine" whenhe is tested.

There's the whole quote. From Fox News, no less.

SleestakSooner
10/23/2008, 04:31 PM
You were doing OK until here. Can't hold a candle doing what? Pimping? This is where you went complete bull**** on us.

Presiding... not pimping. He can't even run a respectable campaign. They have tripped on their own dicks about a million times and I expect them to do it a few dozen more in the next dozen days. Seriously, half the **** that comes out of McCain and Palin's mouths sound like they don't even believe the bull****.

JohnnyMack
10/23/2008, 04:32 PM
And by "far right" do you mean religious folks?

0YIq5Q15L1o

McCain shoulda smacked her with the microphone.

OUstudent4life
10/23/2008, 04:40 PM
Is it an overall hatred of Bush that you just have to have change, is it that you dont believe the stuff, is it because you choose to ignore it, is there another reason?

...I'm voting for both a platform and a person that at this point in my life I agree with more. That may change in 1, 2, or 4 years. We'll see. I'm disenchanted enough with politics to think that pretty much any person that has risen to the point of being able to run for POTUS has more than a few skeletons in the closet, in terms of past dealings and associations. The ACORN thing bugs me, but I don't think Obama directly ordered it done. If Obama does a crap job in the next 4 years, then I'll vote for the other guy.

I'll be honest. 4 and 8 years ago, I really liked McCain. My wife (more of a liberal than me) and I both thought he was a pretty upstanding guy, and might make a good president. The past few years seem to have changed both him and me, and our positions now differ, so unless something drastic changes in the next coupla' weeks, I'll likely vote democrat. Of course, not that my vote will mean much here in Oklahoma ;)

My opinion of McCain suffered from his pick of VP running mate, as well. As a liberal-leaning moderate, I grow angrier by the minute any time someone questions how "pro-America" I am. Just because I have a different view of how certain things in the country should be managed doesn't mean I don't love this country any less than anyone else.

It's not a hatred of Bush, it's a disagreement of the policies enacted over the past 8 years that were primarily dominated by his party, and being unsettled by how those policies have directly affected my future as a scientist. That's probably been the biggest swing for me.

Collier11
10/23/2008, 04:58 PM
...I'm voting for both a platform and a person that at this point in my life I agree with more. That may change in 1, 2, or 4 years. We'll see. I'm disenchanted enough with politics to think that pretty much any person that has risen to the point of being able to run for POTUS has more than a few skeletons in the closet, in terms of past dealings and associations. The ACORN thing bugs me, but I don't think Obama directly ordered it done. If Obama does a crap job in the next 4 years, then I'll vote for the other guy.

I'll be honest. 4 and 8 years ago, I really liked McCain. My wife (more of a liberal than me) and I both thought he was a pretty upstanding guy, and might make a good president. The past few years seem to have changed both him and me, and our positions now differ, so unless something drastic changes in the next coupla' weeks, I'll likely vote democrat. Of course, not that my vote will mean much here in Oklahoma ;)

My opinion of McCain suffered from his pick of VP running mate, as well. As a liberal-leaning moderate, I grow angrier by the minute any time someone questions how "pro-America" I am. Just because I have a different view of how certain things in the country should be managed doesn't mean I don't love this country any less than anyone else.

It's not a hatred of Bush, it's a disagreement of the policies enacted over the past 8 years that were primarily dominated by his party, and being unsettled by how those policies have directly affected my future as a scientist. That's probably been the biggest swing for me.

Thanks for an intelligent response


Ask an ******* question, get an ******* answer.

Youre a real winner, try avoiding intelligent conversations from now on, they dont serve you well

Collier11
10/23/2008, 05:04 PM
or should I say an honest conversation, that doesnt serve you well either

Stoop Dawg
10/23/2008, 05:07 PM
"Sorry C&CDean is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her."

What's up with this bull****?

olevetonahill
10/23/2008, 05:26 PM
"Sorry C&CDean is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her."

What's up with this bull****?

Are you Blond ?

Sooner_Havok
10/23/2008, 05:29 PM
I liked both candidates up until McCain picked Palin. That's not to say I wasn't leaning towards Obama, in all honesty I was. Both guys had some past dealings that don't make me very happy. Keating Five, G. Gordon Liddy, Bill Ayers, and Rezko.

I know a lot of folks are going to say "But their past dealings reflect what their future reactions might be." Yes, that is true. But do I think McCain would pull favors for a buddy of his on a Keating Five scale, or give Liddy a spot in his cabinet, no. Do I think that Obama is going to Put Ayers in charge of Secretary of Education or let folks like Rezko buy influence, no.

The problem I have right now with McCain isn't how he has "gone negative" or picked someone who knows the US Constitution less than I do. It is that after he got the nomination, the right tried to force him into a mold I don't think he fit into and you can tell how uncomfortable it has made him . He isn't an evangelical, he isn't a legislate morality guy, but his party's base has forced him to play that role. He can talk about being a "maverick" and going against his party all he wants, but when it mattered, he caved in to the rights demands that he change who he fundamentally was. Do you think McCain wanted Sara Palin? No, he wanted a moderate like himself, but he caved to political pressure and picked a hard line, right wing VP. To me that speaks volumes about the resolve he has right now. Which is sad I must say. He cared so much about getting to be POTUS he sold his convictions down stream.

LosAngelesSooner
10/23/2008, 05:38 PM
Thats the problem, these are REAL issues that you think arent important
Dude. They're fake issues that are unimportant and mostly misleading. McCain beats Obama on the issues, not on this fake crap.

Frozen Sooner
10/23/2008, 05:38 PM
or should I say an honest conversation, that doesnt serve you well either

Perhaps you should seek to figure out how to ask someone a civil question instead of insulting them.

Try analyzing what you asked and figure out whether that's a question who honestly isn't trying to condescend or insult would ask.

But I guess that doesn't serve you well. It's much easier to just accuse people of ignoring things out of hatred for George Bush than to think "Hey, maybe they actually did some research and figured out that these claims are complete bull****."

TUSooner
10/23/2008, 05:40 PM
I don't hate Obama. I just think he's less qualified to be the president than any candidate in the history of elections. You guys bash Palin (who ain't even running for prez) and your boy has less on his resume than her, with all the added baggage to boot.

I'm voting for McCain because he's a combat veteran, a conservative (kinda-sorta), and he sure as hell beats what he's running against.

This is why I was careful to say "some", because I figured somebody would come up with a sensible argument for McCain that would **** me over if I issued a blanket denunciation of McCain supporters. It would be decent if some McCain booster would credit Obama supporters for having made their choice thoughtfully rather instead of lumping them all together as fuzzy-brained liberal zombies. I ain't no liberal zombie.

I respect McCain a lot for his sacrifices; sacrifices alone are not qualifications. I don't believe Obama is a "savior" ro the anti-Christ.
If we were electing an emperor with absolute power to achieve his agenda without interruption or distraction, I would go with the "kinda-sorta conservative" McCain. But the next Prez is going to have to react to many challenges that might render suddenly irrelevant all the policy issues (and associations) that right now seem like the most important concerns in all creation. At least a couple of conservatives writers (Buckley, Krauthamer?) have credited Obama with a first class intellect and first class temperament. I think he is more likely to face the unexpected crisis more calmly and deliberately than McCain. I fear McCain will exhuberantly and impulsively talk himself, and thus our Nation, into more difficulties than we need.

Palin herself is a worry to me partly because she seems so amazingly simplistic and superficial - as politcal leader. (Maybe that's GOP packaging, if so, what are they hiding? And she might be better than Dan Quayle, but what would that prove?) What worries me more is that McCain thinks Palin is the best person to succeed him as Prez if he dies on the job. Did Giuliani, Lieberman, Powell, [insert your favorite 100 Republicans here] all turn McCain down? I found his choice either cynical or baffling. Also, his "suspension" of his campaign during the bailout crisis bothered me. It was dramatic yet, to me, disturbingly rash and impulsive, and it accomposihed nothing.

Whoever wins will have my support, but if I voted today, it would be for Obama.

Frozen Sooner
10/23/2008, 05:40 PM
I speaking for myself am nothing that you just described, I know that they all have flaws but these are pretty big deals that you seem to be ignoring. The liberal attitude that if you just ignore it, it will go away is troubling. Is this the same attitude that we will have if he is elected?

Yeah, that's totally not condescending or insulting to anyone.

olevetonahill
10/23/2008, 05:48 PM
This is why I was careful to say "some", because I figured somebody would come up with a sensible argument for McCain that would **** me over if I issued a blanket denunciation of McCain supporters. It would be decent if some McCain booster would credit Obama supporters for having made their choice thoughtfully rather instead of lumping them all together as fuzzy-brained liberal zombies. I ain't no liberal zombie.

I respect McCain a lot for his sacrifices; sacrifices alone are not qualifications. I don't believe Obama is a "savior" ro the anti-Christ.
If we were electing an emperor with absolute power to achieve his agenda without interruption or distraction, I would go with the "kinda-sorta conservative" McCain. But the next Prez is going to have to react to many challenges that might render suddenly irrelevant all the policy issues (and associations) that right now seem like the most important concerns in all creation. At least a couple of conservatives writers (Buckley, Krauthamer?) have credited Obama with a first class intellect and first class temperament. I think he is more likely to face the unexpected crisis more calmly and deliberately than McCain. I fear McCain will exhuberantly and impulsively talk himself, and thus our Nation, into more difficulties than we need.

Palin herself is a worry to me partly because she seems so amazingly simplistic and superficial - as politcal leader. (Maybe that's GOP packaging, if so, what are they hiding? And she might be better than Dan Quayle, but what would that prove?) What worries me more is that McCain thinks Palin is the best person to succeed him as Prez if he dies on the job. Did Giuliani, Lieberman, Powell, [insert your favorite 100 Republicans here] all turn McCain down? I found his choice either cynical or baffling. Also, his "suspension" of his campaign during the bailout crisis bothered me. It was dramatic yet, to me, disturbingly rash and impulsive, and it accomposihed nothing.

Whoever wins will have my support, but if I voted today, it would be for Obama.

I respect you and your Opinons . But Im still gonna Vote JSM.:P

Sooner_Havok
10/23/2008, 05:50 PM
I respect you and your Opinons . But Im still gonna Vote JSM.:P

I don't think we'd have it any other way.

We wouldn't, your OVJ just might. You might want to lay off the stuff Nov.3-4. From what I hear, it can make you do some pretty crazy ****:P

LosAngelesSooner
10/23/2008, 05:54 PM
If John McCain had picked either Tom Ridge or Kay Bailey Hutchison and finally driven the stake in the far right once and for all he probably would have won this election.AMEN.

Both choices were INFINITELY better than the trash he went with.

olevetonahill
10/23/2008, 05:57 PM
I don't think we'd have it any other way.

We wouldn't, your OVJ just might. You might want to lay off the stuff Nov.3-4. From what I hear, it can make you do some pretty crazy ****:P

All I have, has gone to the Betterment Of the Members who attend the TGs,
jes sayin :P

Collier11
10/23/2008, 05:57 PM
Perhaps you should seek to figure out how to ask someone a civil question instead of insulting them.

Try analyzing what you asked and figure out whether that's a question who honestly isn't trying to condescend or insult would ask.

But I guess that doesn't serve you well. It's much easier to just accuse people of ignoring things out of hatred for George Bush than to think "Hey, maybe they actually did some research and figured out that these claims are complete bull****."

You cant be serious can you, or that much of an idgit? I was completely civil and respectful until you came after me for simply asking a question...I tried to keep it civil until you attacked me, if you dont want someone coming after you then dont come after them first, pretty simple


If you read what I wrote, I didnt say it was cus the dems hated GW, I asked if that was personally a reason for anyone. Actually, all I asked was why the dems didnt take those particular issues more serious, there is nothing condescending or rude about that, it is an honest question. If you asked me an honest question about JM id answer it, but you are incapable, youd rather throw a hissy fit in front of everyone

Sooner_Havok
10/23/2008, 05:59 PM
All I have, has gone to the Betterment Of the Members who attend the TGs,
jes sayin :P

Then I'm surprised that more of our loyal posters haven't wound up at Sugars instead of at the stadium.:D

Collier11
10/23/2008, 06:00 PM
I respect you and your Opinons . But Im still gonna Vote JSM.:P

And thats how I approached this thread, some individuals are too insecure to understand that. I respect everyones views and can listen to others who disagree with me...I tried Vet, I tried

olevetonahill
10/23/2008, 06:07 PM
Then I'm surprised that more of our loyal posters haven't wound up at Sugars instead of at the stadium.:D

All I do is wind em up . They point themselves .;)

soonerscuba
10/23/2008, 06:13 PM
Collier, I think it speaks more to the fact that Obama supporters are simply tired of refuting the exact same falsehoods presented at least 50 times on this board.

"Doesn't the fact that Obama's birth certificate/Ayers/Rezko/Wright/Muslim/Arab/anti-American/elitist/wife/running mate's comments bother you?" Is a tired question. No, it doesn't bother me because everything I have seen marks these as blatantly false, overblown or both. I didn't give a **** that Bush was a coked out alcoholic half his life because it's irrelevant as to how he would govern. I'm an Obama supporter because he is a pragmatic thinker of policy and the ability to communicate message is the cornerstone of a good administration. I have nothing but respect for John McCain and he will have my support if he wins, but I like Obama's approach to issues as a barometer to how he would conduct an administration. If he fails, I'll shop around, but I am willing to give him the chance.

Collier11
10/23/2008, 06:20 PM
You can note that I never brought up anything about where he was born, is he a muslim, is he a terrorist,etc...I think all of those things are rediculous, he seems to be a galvanizing figure with a talent for politicking, for that and other things he is good at I give him all due credit. I just question the judgment he has getting involved with these types listed above then claiming not to know that they were that way. I am completely open to hearing solid answers and I appreciate your thoughts

olevetonahill
10/23/2008, 06:23 PM
Good Luck with that . :eek:

Edmond Sooner
10/23/2008, 06:23 PM
You cant be serious can you, or that much of an idgit? I was completely civil and respectful until you came after me for simply asking a question...I tried to keep it civil until you attacked me, if you dont want someone coming after you then dont come after them first, pretty simple

But that's about all they've got - the facts are certainly not on their side, as has been repeatedly demonstrated. So what do you do when confronted with inconvenient facts you can't refute? Why, you spew a bunch of invective, brag about your phony academic pedigree, declare victory, and move on. That's their entire routine, in a nutshell.

Good questions in your OP, BTW.

Frozen Sooner
10/23/2008, 06:24 PM
You cant be serious can you, or that much of an idgit? I was completely civil and respectful until you came after me for simply asking a question...I tried to keep it civil until you attacked me, if you dont want someone coming after you then dont come after them first, pretty simple


If you read what I wrote, I didnt say it was cus the dems hated GW, I asked if that was personally a reason for anyone. Actually, all I asked was why the dems didnt take those particular issues more serious, there is nothing condescending or rude about that, it is an honest question. If you asked me an honest question about JM id answer it, but you are incapable, youd rather throw a hissy fit in front of everyone

Again, sir, you asked a question of the nature "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

If you read my initial response, I answered every one of your questions politely and honestly. I made one comment of "you failed" in response to your assertion that you were attempting to not come across as condescending or insulting, because frankly you DID fail in that attempt. If you honestly weren't attempting to belittle people for supporting Obama, then you have my apologies.

I have asked you a question about McCain at least as honest as the questions you've asked us, and I notice you've failed to answer it thus far. Care to take a stab at it?

Sooner_Havok
10/23/2008, 06:36 PM
You can note that I never brought up anything about where he was born, is he a muslim, is he a terrorist,etc...I think all of those things are rediculous, he seems to be a galvanizing figure with a talent for politicking, for that and other things he is good at I give him all due credit. I just question the judgment he has getting involved with these types listed above then claiming not to know that they were that way. I am completely open to hearing solid answers and I appreciate your thoughts

If you really want to know why these things don't bother us, you have to do me a favor. Drop all your preconceived notions that all Obama supporters are mindless liberal drones. That those of us supporting Obama are somehow different kinds of people than those supporting McCain, or are "less patriotic", or that we overlook his "problems and past associations because he speaks pretty".

Ready?

Why doesn't G. Gordon Liddy, the Keating Five scandal, and Reverend John Hagee bother you?

Now. don't look at this the way some poster would and say some lame ***, played out new jack bull **** like "You just did exactly what he expected you to do. Minimize/poo poo everything, and say 'what about McCain?'"

Look at it the way I am asking you to. Why don't these facts about McCain bother you?

Got an answer yet? Plug it into this sentence: The facts you have brought up about Senator Obama don't bother us because _______________.


That's it man. Really. That simple. Those of us supporting Obama do so for the same reasons that McCain crowd supports him.

LosAngelesSooner
10/23/2008, 06:37 PM
But that's about all they've got - the facts are certainly not on their side, as has been repeatedly demonstrated. So what do you do when confronted with inconvenient facts you can't refute? Why, you spew a bunch of invective, brag about your phony academic pedigree, declare victory, and move on. That's their entire routine, in a nutshell. LMAO!

Awww...somebody's still smarting from the butt whipping they got in another thread, I see! :D:D:D

LosAngelesSooner
10/23/2008, 06:38 PM
And some of us just ignore all that unsubstantiated bull crap and support McCain because we think he's the better candidate.

olevetonahill
10/23/2008, 06:39 PM
LMAO!

Awww...somebody's still smarting from the butt whipping they got in another thread, I see! :D:D:D

yer such a Kinky bastage :eek:

Frozen Sooner
10/23/2008, 06:52 PM
Collier-

Fair enough. Please forgive me being rather cranky today. I have a pounding sinus headache bad enough that my hands are shaking.

Anyhow, I do believe that regardless of any snark I may have flung, I did answer your questions. The short version, however, is that after hearing each of the accusations or issues you listed (other than the military one, since I frankly don't think that the way the military votes should influence the way I vote-they're not a praetorian guard) is that I went out, did the research, and found that these issues just weren't really issues.

Associating with Reverend Wright is really the only one that bothers me at all (which wasn't brought up in your original post). It's a mark against Obama that he counted this man as a friend and advisor based on what I know about the guy. It's just not a disqualifier.

I do not now nor have I ever claimed that Barack Obama is a perfect candidate or a perfect person, and being perfect isn't what earned him my vote.

Collier11
10/23/2008, 07:00 PM
If you really want to know why these things don't bother us, you have to do me a favor. Drop all your preconceived notions that all Obama supporters are mindless liberal drones. That those of us supporting Obama are somehow different kinds of people than those supporting McCain, or are "less patriotic", or that we overlook his "problems and past associations because he speaks pretty".

I said nothing of Obama supporters being less patriotic, Ive said nothing of Obama supporters being mindless, I have no preconceived notions about you or any other Obama supporter. All I did was ask a question that I thought was fair, in a respectful manner, and something I felt deserved an answer which many of you have given me. You are using your preconceived notions against me about Obama haters which I really am not anyway. CNN and MSNBC tells you that these questions I asked are just a repub attempt to belittle Obama, the info I gather tells me otherwise so I thought id ask. Some of you are being far too defensive, listen to what I asked...im not here to attack anyone

Ready?

Why doesn't G. Gordon Liddy, the Keating Five scandal, and Reverend John Hagee bother you?

Now. don't look at this the way some poster would and say some lame ***, played out new jack bull **** like "You just did exactly what he expected you to do. Minimize/poo poo everything, and say 'what about McCain?'"

Look at it the way I am asking you to. Why don't these facts about McCain bother you?

Got an answer yet? Plug it into this sentence: The facts you have brought up about Senator Obama don't bother us because _______________.


That's it man. Really. That simple. Those of us supporting Obama do so for the same reasons that McCain crowd supports him.

To answer yours and Mike Rich's questions without thinking that you guys are coming after me because I dont see any problem asking questions that personally touble you
, here are my personal views

The Keating Five it was found that Mccain did not act improperly and he was cleared of any wrong doing, in fact he received nothing more than a note of "poor judment" which as many of you have said, could be argued for most politicians

Liddy, the only thing I know of this is that Liddy got himself into alot of trouble over watergate and Mccain calls the guy a friend and has taken $20,000 from him...the diff between him and Ayers is not much unless you consider being a terrorist to be something different

Hagee has some dispicable views on particular subjects, he endorsed Mccain which Mccain accepted. Other than that, what? Hagee issued an apology about the catholic comment and it was accepted. His Hitler comment, Mccain came right out after that and rejected Hagees endorsment and denounced his statements...he never went to this guys church

I hope I answered in a way that would make you think I am being fair about this

Collier11
10/23/2008, 07:06 PM
Collier-

Fair enough. Please forgive me being rather cranky today. I have a pounding sinus headache bad enough that my hands are shaking.

Anyhow, I do believe that regardless of any snark I may have flung, I did answer your questions. The short version, however, is that after hearing each of the accusations or issues you listed (other than the military one, since I frankly don't think that the way the military votes should influence the way I vote-they're not a praetorian guard) is that I went out, did the research, and found that these issues just weren't really issues.

Associating with Reverend Wright is really the only one that bothers me at all (which wasn't brought up in your original post). It's a mark against Obama that he counted this man as a friend and advisor based on what I know about the guy. It's just not a disqualifier.

I do not now nor have I ever claimed that Barack Obama is a perfect candidate or a perfect person, and being perfect isn't what earned him my vote.

Im glad you finally admitted that im right :D

Frozen Sooner
10/23/2008, 07:07 PM
Are you threatening me? :mad:

;)

Sooner_Havok
10/23/2008, 07:09 PM
To answer yours and Mike Rich's questions without thinking that you guys are coming after me because I dont see any problem asking questions that personally touble you
, here are my personal views

The Keating Five it was found that Mccain did not act improperly and he was cleared of any wrong doing, in fact he received nothing more than a note of "poor judment" which as many of you have said, could be argued for most politicians

Liddy, the only thing I know of this is that Liddy got himself into alot of trouble over watergate and Mccain calls the guy a friend and has taken $20,000 from him...the diff between him and Ayers is not much unless you consider being a terrorist to be something different

Hagee has some dispicable views on particular subjects, he endorsed Mccain which Mccain accepted. Other than that, what? Hagee issued an apology about the catholic comment and it was accepted. His Hitler comment, Mccain came right out after that and rejected Hagees endorsment and denounced his statements...he never went to this guys church

I hope I answered in a way that would make you think I am being fair about this


I was just throwing out some of the preconceived notions some people have about Obama supports, I never meant to imply that you had them, simply that if you did, drop them momentarily.

Forgive if this seems rude, but even though you wrote quite a bit, you didn't answer my question.

I asked why those things don't bother you. All you have done is rationalize why "your guy" isn't as bad as "my guy", you never said why those things haven't affected your decision to cast your ballot for McCain.

I don't want to rehash McCain's faults, but I would simply like to know, why do they not matter to you? I don't care for a rationalization of them, or why they aren't comparable to Obama's faults. I want to know, why are you overlooking them?

Collier11
10/23/2008, 07:21 PM
I was just throwing out some of the preconceived notions some people have about Obama supports, I never meant to imply that you had them, simply that if you did, drop them momentarily.

I dont :D

Forgive if this seems rude, but even though you wrote quite a bit, you didn't answer my question.

I thought you wanted me to answer to them


I asked why those things don't bother you. All you have done is rationalize why "your guy" isn't as bad as "my guy", you never said why those things haven't affected your decision to cast your ballot for McCain.

Again you missed the point of my original post, I never said Obama is a bad guy, I simply asked why anyone who supports Obama wasnt bothered by those things I listed

I don't want to rehash McCain's faults, but I would simply like to know, why do they not matter to you? I don't care for a rationalization of them, or why they aren't comparable to Obama's faults. I want to know, why are you overlooking them?

The way I personally feel on all three levels is this:

With the K5, it is disturbing but considering he was legally seen to have nothing to do with that, it bothers me not

With Hagee, Mccain has nothing to do with the guys views or church as far as I know, he is just a friend so that bothers me not.

With Liddy, I admitted earlier I dont know alot about it but from what I know Liddy made some bad decisions and served his time for that. If Mccain chooses to be his friend it does not bother me as long as the guy has nothing to do with his campaign...if im missing anything about this guy let me know

Sooner_Havok
10/23/2008, 07:34 PM
The way I personally feel on all three levels is this:

With the K5, it is disturbing but considering he was legally seen to have nothing to do with that, it bothers me not

Obama wasn't legally seen to have anything to do with the Rezko crap

With Hagee, Mccain has nothing to do with the guys views or church as far as I know, he is just a friend so that bothers me not.

McCain openly sought the endorsement from this man, knowing full well about the past comments he had made regarding Hitler.

With Liddy, I admitted earlier I dont know alot about it but from what I know Liddy made some bad decisions and served his time for that. If Mccain chooses to be his friend it does not bother me as long as the guy has nothing to do with his campaign...if im missing anything about this guy let me know

Here is a quote from the guy:

Now if the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms comes to disarm you and they are bearing arms, resist them with arms. Go for a head shot; they're going to be wearing bulletproof vests. ... Kill the sons of bitches.

Also keep in mind that Bill Ayers has nothing to do with Obama's campaign, and the two are not friends. The only reason Ayers did not serve time was because the FBI screwed up in collecting evidence.


You see what is happening now though don't you? You are still rationalizing why what "your guy" did is not as bad as what my guy did, not addressing why you choose to overlook them. You are very close though, when you say, "it bothers me not" Why? Why can you simply gloss over these things?

If McCain was running against Mother Teresa would you find these things trivial?

Collier11
10/23/2008, 07:40 PM
NEVERMIND

Sooner_Havok
10/23/2008, 07:49 PM
NEVERMIND

All I was trying to get out of you was this:

I can overlook these "facts" because I have done my research on them and have found them to be of no consequence. I think that "my guy" is the best choice to guide this country forward from it's current crises.

That's it man. I know I was fishing, but that, or something like that, was what I was looking for. The same rational that you use to exonerate McCain of any wrong doing is they same that Obama supporters use. We are just like you. If you can think or reasons why McCain's past dealings don't matter today, Obama supporters can think of reasons why his don't.

The only difference is each side wants to go after the other. Each wants to say, how can you overlook this?!?!?!? But both seem to forget that they have overlooked some things about their guy too.

Lott's Bandana
10/23/2008, 08:06 PM
John McCain's Imaginary Military Support

by Brandon Friedman

Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 04:32:51 AM CST

Don’t let anyone fool you into believing that John McCain is some sort of pied piper who’s gained the unquestioning allegiance of the military and veterans’ communities. I know that’s how they like to portray it on the cable news shows, but it’s just not true. I also realize lots of Republicans have a vested interest in seeing John McCain cast as the patron saint of Militaria, but the numbers just aren’t there.

Sorry. **** you *******.

I took a look at the CNN exit poll results for each primary state with at least two major military installations. Of the Republican respondents who stated they had served in the military at some point, here are the percentages who voted for McCain:
VA51%LA47%CA 46%FL 42%OK 42%MO 39%GA 37%
Kind of anemic--and not what many would expect.
Conversely, here are the percentages of those Republican veterans who voted for "Not McCain": Ahem, read: someone else, not "not McCain"
VA49%LA53%CA 54%FL 58%OK 58%MO 61%GA 63%
Wow. Coupled with the fact that both Ron Paul and Barack Obama have raised more money from the military community than John McCain (how do you prove this?), it seems clear that there is no ongoing love affair between the military and Mr. Bomb-bomb-bomb/Hundred Years Guy.
And that’s just the empirical data. Anecdotally, everybody I talk to in the military thinks John McCain is out of touch, largely irrational, and a threat to the health and well-being of our Armed Forces.
Just thought I’d throw that out there.

I hadn't read this thread but I thought I'd go ahead and give it a look and was rather enjoying the banter until I came across this.

Using PRIMARY results from Military States (?) to prove the military is apathetic towards McCain is complete horseshilt and more of the standard insult of our intelligence we keep getting from anyone involved in any election (or advertising, or sports reporting) process. The Primary had several candidates to choose from, not simply two nominees from opposite parties. Duh. Double freakin duh. Yeah, we're too ignorant and easily led to figure that out. **** ing azzhole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First of all, I GUARANTEE you the military's support of the Republican nominee is overwhelmingly one-sided. He is one of their own and they feel stronger than Dean that he is the qualified candidate. The Primary season had a multitude of GOP candidates to choose from.

Secondly, the last comment in bold above is a complete lie and dishonest rhetoric. The majority of Military personnel IN NO WAY believe JCM is a threat to their well-being.

Whoever this idiot is should become a hood ornament on a Bagdhad HumVee for a month.

****ing insulting post, that.

JohnnyMack
10/23/2008, 08:52 PM
The problem I have right now with McCain isn't how he has "gone negative" or picked someone who knows the US Constitution less than I do. It is that after he got the nomination, the right tried to force him into a mold I don't think he fit into and you can tell how uncomfortable it has made him . He isn't an evangelical, he isn't a legislate morality guy, but his party's base has forced him to play that role. He can talk about being a "maverick" and going against his party all he wants, but when it mattered, he caved in to the rights demands that he change who he fundamentally was. Do you think McCain wanted Sara Palin? No, he wanted a moderate like himself, but he caved to political pressure and picked a hard line, right wing VP. To me that speaks volumes about the resolve he has right now. Which is sad I must say. He cared so much about getting to be POTUS he sold his convictions down stream.

That is a solid post.

Good jorb.

LosAngelesSooner
10/23/2008, 09:22 PM
That is a solid post.

Good jorb.My friend, who works higher up in the McCain campaign, told me that McCain was furious with the Palin selection. He wanted Lieberman to be his runningmate. I don't really like Lieberman, personally, but he sure as chit would have been LIGHT YEARS better than Carribou Barbie.

olevetonahill
10/23/2008, 09:30 PM
Again, sir, you asked a question of the nature "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"



well Have ya ?

leavingthezoo
10/23/2008, 09:40 PM
But that's about all they've got - the facts are certainly not on their side, as has been repeatedly demonstrated. So what do you do when confronted with inconvenient facts you can't refute? Why, you spew a bunch of invective, brag about your phony academic pedigree, declare victory, and move on. That's their entire routine, in a nutshell.

Good questions in your OP, BTW.

wow. i should probably go back and edit my post. i forgot my phony academic pedigree and what not.

SleestakSooner
10/23/2008, 09:40 PM
But that's about all they've got - the facts are certainly not on their side, as has been repeatedly demonstrated. So what do you do when confronted with inconvenient facts you can't refute? Why, you spew a bunch of invective, brag about your phony academic pedigree, declare victory, and move on. That's their entire routine, in a nutshell.

Good questions in your OP, BTW.

You obviously missed my post... you know the one where I systematically refuted each and every one of the issues in question here. You know this "Us vs. They" rhetoric sounds rather tribal and simplistic. Is that all "you've" got?

SleestakSooner
10/23/2008, 10:01 PM
I hadn't read this thread but I thought I'd go ahead and give it a look and was rather enjoying the banter until I came across this.

Using PRIMARY results from Military States (?) to prove the military is apathetic towards McCain is complete horseshilt and more of the standard insult of our intelligence we keep getting from anyone involved in any election (or advertising, or sports reporting) process. The Primary had several candidates to choose from, not simply two nominees from opposite parties. Duh. Double freakin duh. Yeah, we're too ignorant and easily led to figure that out. **** ing azzhole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First of all, I GUARANTEE you the military's support of the Republican nominee is overwhelmingly one-sided. He is one of their own and they feel stronger than Dean that he is the qualified candidate. The Primary season had a multitude of GOP candidates to choose from.

Secondly, the last comment in bold above is a complete lie and dishonest rhetoric. The majority of Military personnel IN NO WAY believe JCM is a threat to their well-being.

Whoever this idiot is should become a hood ornament on a Bagdhad HumVee for a month.

****ing insulting post, that.

I do agree that using the primary results to show the lack of support for McCain vs. Obama is ineffective. Your comment I have highlighted in bold above is something you cannot prove, it's an opinion. I can however show you this USA Today article as proof that judging by campaign donations from military personnel alone, McCain finished third... not even second but behind Obama and Paul.



By Fredreka Schouten (http://www.usatoday.com/community/tags/reporter.aspx?id=212), USA TODAY
WASHINGTON ó Democrat Barack Obama (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/barack-obama.htm) and Republican Ron Paul (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/ron-paul.htm) have little in common politically, except their opposition to the Iraq war.
Both top a new list of presidential candidates receiving campaign contributions from people who work for the four branches of the military and National Guard, according to a study released Thursday by the non-partisan Center for Responsive Politics.

Obama, an Illinois senator, brought in more donations from this group than any White House contender from either party. The Democrat announced Wednesday his plan to withdraw all U.S. troops from Iraq by the end of 2008.
Paul, a Texas congressman and the only GOP presidential hopeful who supports an immediate troop withdrawal, comes in second.

"Paul and Obama are talking straight to soldiers, and what they are saying is resonating," said Larnell Exum, a retired Army lieutenant colonel, who gave $500 to Obama. Exum, who works for the Army as a congressional liaison, is a Democrat but voted for George Bush in 1992.

The center tallied money from donors who list the Air Force, Army, Marines, Navy and National Guard as an employer. Overall, these donations are miniscule: Obama got 44 contributions worth about $27,000 and Paul 23 for about $19,300. Republican John McCain, an Iraq war supporter and Vietnam prisoner of war, was third with about $18,500 from 32 donors.

In 2004, military personnel contributed $1.2 million to presidential and congressional candidates, the center said. This year, those donations are about $200,000.

The analysis also found that military personnel have shifted their donations. In 2002, the center said Democrats received 23% of contributions from military workers; Republicans got 77%. This year, 40% of their donations have gone to Democrats running for Congress and president. The GOP got 59%.

The donation patterns "would suggest that those who wear the uniform want change," said Joe Davis, spokesman for the Veterans of Foreign Wars.
Bruce Altschuler, a political scientist at the State University of New York at Oswego and a Vietnam veteran, said, "The whole country has been shifting to Democrats, and the military, in some ways, is a microcosm of society."
Spokeswoman Jen Psaki said Obama is pleased to have the support of those "who have sacrificed so much."

Paul spokesman Jesse Benton said the military support makes sense. The congressman "wants to get (troops) out of playing the world's policemen and get them home," he said.

Altschuler cautioned against reading too much into the early contributions, particularly in such small amounts. "These figures could look very different in a few months."

SoonerStormchaser
10/23/2008, 10:03 PM
Is it an overall hatred of Bush that you just have to have change, is it that you dont believe the stuff, is it because you choose to ignore it, is there another reason?

You answered your own post right there.

leavingthezoo
10/23/2008, 10:08 PM
You answered your own post right there.

since you guys are so good at thinking for us, then... i guess it's your fault we're voting for obama. :mad: :D

Ardmore_Sooner
10/23/2008, 10:35 PM
I'm going to request that EVERYONE stop posting in this thread.

:D
;)

Collier11
10/23/2008, 10:38 PM
Is that all you do anymore is go around and request that people stop posting in threads?

Edmond Sooner
10/23/2008, 10:40 PM
LMAO!

Awww...somebody's still smarting from the butt whipping they got in another thread, I see! :D:D:D

It keeps me up nights weeping.

;)

Ardmore_Sooner
10/23/2008, 10:41 PM
Is that all you do anymore is go around and request that people stop posting in threads?

I asked you kindly.
















And yes, yes I do. :D

Collier11
10/23/2008, 10:45 PM
suck tit

Ardmore_Sooner
10/23/2008, 10:47 PM
Get your panties in a wad much? Get a sense of humor.

Collier11
10/23/2008, 10:48 PM
Get your panties in a wad much? Get a sense of humor.

I was kidding you big homo...here :D Is that better :D

Ardmore_Sooner
10/23/2008, 10:49 PM
As was I! I forgot the smilies too..... homo..... :D :D :D

Half a Hundred
10/23/2008, 10:50 PM
This thread takes the wide stance in bathroom stalls.

Collier11
10/23/2008, 10:54 PM
It started out with good intentions, now it probably just needs to be locked down

Ardmore_Sooner
10/23/2008, 10:54 PM
IBTL

Lott's Bandana
10/23/2008, 10:55 PM
I do agree that using the primary results to show the lack of support for McCain vs. Obama is ineffective. Your comment I have highlighted in bold above is something you cannot prove, it's an opinion. I can however show you this USA Today article as proof that judging by campaign donations from military personnel alone, McCain finished third... not even second but behind Obama and Paul.

Look Slees, I have 38 years of experience with the military, including my own career. It might be opinion, but so is my opinion that OU is good, and that is a fact as well.
Again, I GUARANTEE you the people in uniform overwhelmingly support McCain. Maybe not like we did Reagan, but no Sailor wants a Skipper just out of the Academy, no Marine wants a Gunny right out of Basic, StormChaser don't want a pilot just out of a 182 and no Soldier wants a First Sergeant that hasn't dug a foxhole.

My own experience after retirement has softened me a bit, which actually makes it rather enjoyable to read these threads and not get all caught up in them. Until the previous post I had to respond to.

Slees, the article you highlight talks about some non-partisan Center that sampled less contributions than the number of posts in SicEm's sad love-thread. That USA Today would even quote "44 contributions to Obama" and publish an article showing a trend change BASED ON 99 TOTAL CONTRIBUTIONS is frankly irresponsible. Why am I surprised?

I'm not.

Vaevictis
10/23/2008, 11:34 PM
The other questions having been answered in a way I can agree with, I will simply answer the following:


Why does it not bother you that the US military and its members favor Mccain 3-1, these are the people who defend our rights

Because if I wanted to live in a military junta, I'd move to one.

Fraggle145
10/23/2008, 11:47 PM
I said nothing of Obama supporters being less patriotic, Ive said nothing of Obama supporters being mindless, I have no preconceived notions about you or any other Obama supporter. All I did was ask a question that I thought was fair, in a respectful manner, and something I felt deserved an answer which many of you have given me. You are using your preconceived notions against me about Obama haters which I really am not anyway. CNN and MSNBC tells you that these questions I asked are just a repub attempt to belittle Obama, the info I gather tells me otherwise so I thought id ask. Some of you are being far too defensive, listen to what I asked...im not here to attack anyone

Is it not possible that someone voting for Obama could think that some of the questions were BS without being told that CNN/MSNBC?

I'm not questioning whether they were or werent BS, because I really dont think that was your intention.

I think this question is what some people in this thread are getting at/reacting to when they say that you have a preconceived notion of why liberals or others are voting for Obama.

C&CDean
10/24/2008, 08:01 AM
Look Slees, I have 38 years of experience with the military, including my own career. It might be opinion, but so is my opinion that OU is good, and that is a fact as well.
Again, I GUARANTEE you the people in uniform overwhelmingly support McCain. Maybe not like we did Reagan, but no Sailor wants a Skipper just out of the Academy, no Marine wants a Gunny right out of Basic, StormChaser don't want a pilot just out of a 182 and no Soldier wants a First Sergeant that hasn't dug a foxhole.

My own experience after retirement has softened me a bit, which actually makes it rather enjoyable to read these threads and not get all caught up in them. Until the previous post I had to respond to.

Slees, the article you highlight talks about some non-partisan Center that sampled less contributions than the number of posts in SicEm's sad love-thread. That USA Today would even quote "44 contributions to Obama" and publish an article showing a trend change BASED ON 99 TOTAL CONTRIBUTIONS is frankly irresponsible. Why am I surprised?

I'm not.

This is the best post in this thread. By far.

OU4LIFE
10/24/2008, 08:06 AM
This thread takes the wide stance in bathroom stalls.

if by 'stalls' you mean 'urinals' then I agree.

TheHumanAlphabet
10/24/2008, 08:31 AM
I would like to play along, but the BP is high enough and I don't need to get into arguments with brick walls. But the company you keep does matter and Oblahma is failing at every corner...

noleamite
10/24/2008, 02:53 PM
This is the best post in this thread. By far.

Maybe not all of the troops.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j87k1j4CpOw

TheHumanAlphabet
10/24/2008, 02:57 PM
Maybe not all of the troops.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j87k1j4CpOw

Probably those like Kerry spoke of and need halp...

Tulsa_Fireman
10/24/2008, 08:50 PM
I love the G. Gordon Liddy = William Ayers/Resko/whoever argument because Gordon Liddy is a convicted felon.

It couldn't be further from the truth. Liddy was (and is) a proud serviceman, served our nation in the FBI in one of the nation's most organized crime-riddled cities, Gary, Indiana. He served as an assistant DA. Liddy was a fervent supporter of the office he served, and a dedicated spearcarrier of the office of the President. Liddy helped plan the black op into the Watergate hotel. Liddy participated in a few black ops working for Nixon's administration. He also stood his ground and refused to comply with investigators, long after John Dean rolled like a fish, and even co-conspirator E. Howard Hunt turned state's evidence.

Liddy accepted and made some questionable decisions in his lifetime. But one standard bears throughout his story. He's a stand-up, hard nosed individual with a Fordham Law trained mind and a character like cast iron. The majority of his life was spent putting criminals behind bars, and according to his own account, was the line planner for schemes above and beyond himself. So is he a felon? Yes.

Has he ever bombed the Pentagon? Stood by the notion of destroying what our nation was built on, then shifting gears in his old age to tear down our civilization not by the sword, but by the pen through the minds of our youth? Were the mistakes he made in the pursuit, as convoluted as it may be, of service to our nation?

Put 'Will' on your reading list if you haven't already. There's a lot of John Dean influenced tripe out there. I for one respect the hell out of the man and will happily admit, I'm a fan. Were I in the same scenario, I could only hope I'd have such staunch resolve and a willingness to put service over self.

JLEW1818
10/24/2008, 09:22 PM
Spread the Wealth??? What are we communist now? ****

People say we have had so many White presidents because America is racist.

Black people are voting for Obama because he is black, it's that simple. For the most part.


How is that not racist?

JohnnyMack
10/24/2008, 10:17 PM
America. **** yeah!

Collier11
10/24/2008, 10:59 PM
Sit on my face and suck on my ballz