The libz already drooling over our 401K accounts...

[OklahomaTuba]

Just think of all the welfare entitlements that can be bought and paid for with YOUR retirement money???


Powerful House Democrats are eyeing proposals to overhaul the nation’s $3 trillion401(k) system (http://www.workforce.com/section/search_results.php?account=1005&psel=all&match=best&sort_by=publish_date&q=%22401%28k%29%22&Go.x=12&Go.y=8), including the elimination of most of the $80 billion in annual tax breaks that 401(k) investors receive.

House Education and Labor Committee Chairman George Miller (http://www.workforce.com/section/search_results.php?account=1005&psel=all&match=best&sort_by=publish_date&q=%22George+Miller%22&Go.x=18&Go.y=6), D-California, and Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Washington, chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee’s Subcommittee on Income Security and Family Support, are looking at redirecting those tax breaks to a new system of guaranteed retirement accounts to which all workers would be obliged to contribute.
A plan by Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic-policy analysis (http://www.workforce.com/section/search_results.php?account=1005&psel=all&match=best&sort_by=publish_date&q=%22Teresa+Ghilarducci%22) at the New School for Social Research in New York, contains elements that are being considered. She testified last week before Miller’s Education and Labor Committee on her proposal.
At that hearing, the director of the Congressional Budget Office, Peter Orszag, testified that some $2 trillion in retirement savings has been lost over the past 15 months.
Under Ghilarducci’s plan, all workers would receive a $600 annual inflation-adjusted subsidy from the U.S. government but would be required to invest 5 percent of their pay into a guaranteed retirement account administered by the Social Security Administration. The money in turn would be invested in special government bonds that would pay 3 percent a year, adjusted for inflation.

“I want to stop the federal subsidy of 401(k)s,” Ghilarducci said in an interview. “401(k)s can continue to exist, but they won’t have the benefit of the subsidy of the tax break.”
Under the current 401(k) system, investors are charged relatively high retail fees, Ghilarducci said.
“I want to spend our nation’s dollar for retirement security better. Everybody would now be covered” if the plan were adopted, Ghilarducci said.
http://www.workforce.com/section/00/article/25/83/58.php (http://www.workforce.com/section/00/article/25/83/58.php)

Welcome to Socialism. :(

[tommieharris91]

Privatize the risks, socialize the losses. I'm starting to like it... :cool:

[OklahomaTuba]

all workers would receive a $600 annual inflation-adjusted subsidy from the U.S. government but would be required to "invest" 5 percent of their pay into a guaranteed retirement account administered by the Social Security Administration.

$600 returns? And run by Social Security Administration???

GENIUS!!

And wouldn't this "mandatory investment" be just another word for a tax???

What will the libz "think" of next??

[bri]

Abusing "quote marks" to "make a vague point"?

Oh no, wait, you already thought of that. Dang.

[OklahomaTuba]

Its ok to admit you "like" the "idear" Bri.

"Spread the wealth" as "they" say.

;)

[JohnnyMack]

Welcome to Socialism. :(


http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2004/12/11/image660499x.jpg

[King Crimson]

it's going to be great. we'll all live in poured concrete apartment buildings made in the 50's. your eyes will see everything in black and white....making for instant nostalgia at the shoe line.

free thinkers like Tuba, 86, Homey will all be in work camps as romantic heroes of the before-time.

[SoonerInKCMO]

Meh. My 401(k) ain't worth much of nothing these days anyway. They can have it. :(

[TUSooner]

What "racist" is to some on the left, "socialist" is to some on the right: You might as well call someone a "poo-poo head" for all the meaning those words have in the current comic-book-level* political discourse. It's the battle of the straw men!!!

*I apologize for insulting comic books by comparing them to the stupid cant that passes for argument in some of these posts.

[85Sooner]

Meh. My 401(k) ain't worth much of nothing these days anyway. They can have it. :(

You can send your check to me.;)

[85Sooner]

it's going to be great. we'll all live in poured concrete apartment buildings made in the 50's. your eyes will see everything in black and white....making for instant nostalgia at the shoe line.

free thinkers like Tuba, 86, Homey will all be in work camps as romantic heroes of the before-time.

And the professors, teachers, lawyers, actors, musicians, comedians will be ................well, dead. And those without jobs will be put to work in work camps. There is already one built 20 miles from here just outside Taylor texas.

[TUSooner]

Let's see what that article really says: Two Dem. committee chairmen are "looking at" a radical program devised by a college professor noboidy has ever heard of.

I guess that means it's practically the law already, and if Obama gets elected the Bolsheviks will start kicking down doors the day after the inauguration.

Or - given that nobody has actually endorsed the program or held it out for any public consideration - it could all be just another sky-is-falling piece of horse**** from some hysterical right-wing panic monger.

[85Sooner]

Let's see what that article really says: Two Dem. committee chairmen are "looking at" a radical program devised by a college professor noboidy has ever heard of.

I guess that means it's practically the law already, and if Obama gets elected the Bolsheviks will start kicking down doors the day after the inauguration.

Or - given that nobody has actually endorsed the program or held it out for any public consideration - it could all be just another sky-is-falling piece of horse**** from some hysterical right-wing panic monger.

Actually, about 13 or 14 years ago, one of Clintons economic advisers, I don't remember her name, suggested taxing 401 k plans. If they get a filibuster proof house and senate, they can let it fly right through. Same with the fairness doctrine, and the law preventing annoninimity in union elections, as well as raising taxes on all of your employers. So this is not new, it is just lokig like it could be a rality that no one can do anything to stop.

[bri]

You can send your check to me.;)

SOCIALIST!!!! :eek:

[85Sooner]

SOCIALIST!!!! :eek:

Nope , just collecting campaign contributions ;)

[bri]

Great. Do you know how many fraudulent voter registrations I'm gonna have to make up now just to offset that?

Prick. :D

[Harry Beanbag]

So in addition to the current Social Security black hole that we have to throw our own money into, they want to create another one to waste our money in? Democrats **** in one hand and Republicans **** in the other, but I cannot understand how Americans not only put up with this bull****, but half of them will stab the other half in the forehead with an icepick just to prove how right it is. ****ing lemings, all of them. We have the right to the pursuit of happiness, not the right to give half our ****ing salary to the damn government.

I'll say it again, maybe I should make it my sig: Revolution is coming.

[yermom]

ok, so someone explain to me why 401k's aren't taxed in the first place?

the way i see it, we are basically helping to fund retirement accounts for people that can afford to put money into a retirement account...

[Frozen Sooner]

ok, so someone explain to me why 401k's aren't taxed in the first place?

the way i see it, we are basically helping to fund retirement accounts for people that can afford to put money into a retirement account...

401(k)s are taxed, the taxes are just deferred until withdrawal.

The reason for the tax deferral is to encourage people to put money into retirement savings.

[yermom]

but then if it is eventually taxed, then what is the difference?

now, Oklahoma's Teacher's Retirement System? there's a scam...

[Frozen Sooner]

but then if it is eventually taxed, then what is the difference?

Two advantages to tax-deferral.

1) Your money will grow faster, as money you would have to withdraw to pay taxes instead remains in the account and continues to grow.

2) Presumably once you retire you will be in a lower marginal tax bracket, so the funds will be taxed at a lower rate than if you had received them when originally paid.

[OklahomaTuba]

Let's see what that article really says: Two Dem. committee chairmen are "looking at" a radical program devised by a college professor noboidy has ever heard of.

I guess that means it's practically the law already, and if Obama gets elected the Bolsheviks will start kicking down doors the day after the inauguration.

Or - given that nobody has actually endorsed the program or held it out for any public consideration - it could all be just another sky-is-falling piece of horse**** from some hysterical right-wing panic monger.

It’s a stretch to call the Chairman of a Subcommittee a nobody, when they end up being some of the most influential folks in the legislative process.

And it’s HIS office that is saying they think it’s interesting. Not good when there will be no one to vote against it.

horse**** like this ends up getting made law if we aren't careful, and I really don't need another 5% tax on top of my Income tax increases and social security increases and state tax increases that seem to be coming our way.

[Cam]

I think he's saying the professor is a nobody. Could be wrong, but that's how I read it.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Can you say Offshore tax shelter if this comes to fruition... Man would I be looking for an expat assignment.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

ok, so someone explain to me why 401k's aren't taxed in the first place?

the way i see it, we are basically helping to fund retirement accounts for people that can afford to put money into a retirement account...

They are taxed. Just delayed until you withdraw - supposedly at a lower tax bracket. This deal was instituted as a means to highten participation into the program and to help ease companies away from defined benefit programs. Now if you want to argue defined benefits vs. payments into 401k that would be a good arguement. In fact, I think after the boom of the boomers wears off the idea of self participating 401k's may not look so good. My retirement package for the 2020s may not be so bright.

[OklahomaTuba]

$600 a year won't buy a lotta beer.

[SoonerInKCMO]

Works out to about a half-case of Natty per week. Plenty for normal people; OV might have a problem with it.

[Vaevictis]

$600 returns? And run by Social Security Administration???

Except it's not $600 returns.

Plan:
(1) Eliminate deferred taxation on 401k
(2) Institute $600 tax credit
(3) 5% mandatory investment in government bonds paying a real rate of 3% (eg, CPI or whatever metric they choose to use + 3%)

The idea appears to be that (2) will offset (1) for most workers.

The problem (and advantage) with (3) as I see it is that it's essentially forcing the government to take on debt from the American people.

The bad part is that we'll never be able to get to a point where the government is debt free under this plan since it's required to sell CPI+3% bonds for 5% of all earned income, and it's probably rolled over at maturity.

The good part is that it'll be Americans holding this debt instead of the Chinese.

Interesting question: If it's forced investment in bonds, well, bonds are an asset. What happens when the holder dies? Under social security, it might go to the spouse (or kids until they're 18), but with bonds, usually you can will them out. Is that the case here?

[SoonerInKCMO]

Plan:
(1) Eliminate deferred taxation on 401k
(2) Institute $600 tax credit
(3) 5% mandatory investment in government bonds paying a real rate of 3% (eg, CPI or whatever metric they choose to use + 3%)

The idea appears to be that (2) will offset (1) for most workers.


Most workers must not be putting diddly in their 401(k)s.

This plan, I don't like it.

[TUSooner]

I think he's saying the professor is a nobody. Could be wrong, but that's how I read it.

Yes, but I think I called her a "noboidy" which is very similar to a nobody.

I don't think that would be a good plan at all. But I also don't think it would have the public support to make to the president's desk, or that either Obama or McCain would support it. But mainly, I just couldn't resist mocking Tuba's latest hysterical refrain about wicked libz coming to eat our children.

[Vaevictis]

Most workers must not be putting diddly in their 401(k)s.

We have a negative savings rate in this country. It shouldn't be surprising.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

If anyone had doubts about Oblahma's socialistic roots, they should have none after this proposal.

[Vaevictis]

But mainly, I just couldn't resist mocking Tuba's latest hysterical refrain about wicked libz coming to eat our children.

Just wait until someone compares Jimmy Carter side by side with GW Bush on Middle Eastern and budgetary affairs. He'll **** bricks.

(Hint: Jimmy secured lasting peace between Israel and it's greatest enemy. GW Bush failed to even secure Bin Laden, nevermind the ongoing wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Both had record oil prices. Jimmy left the deficit 40% lower than he found it; GW Bush will leave it >250% higher. etc, etc.)

[TheHumanAlphabet]

We have a negative savings rate in this country. It shouldn't be surprising.

Hopefully with the lack of easy credit for the foreseable future, this will change. I have never been a fan of a gov't. espousing the consumerism society.

[Vaevictis]

If anyone had doubts about Oblahma's socialistic roots, they should have none after this proposal.

Uh, did Obama actually propose this? I thought it was some folks in the House.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Uh, did Obama actually propose this? I thought it was some folks in the House.

Oh he will go along with it or this is a trial ballon through his organization. I don't hear him saying this is a bad idea...

[SoonerInKCMO]

So... you haven't heard him say anything about it so he must be all for it? :confused:

[SoonerInKCMO]

I haven't heard John McCain say anything about it - is he all for it as well?

[Vaevictis]

Oh he will go along with it or this is a trial ballon through his organization. I don't hear him saying this is a bad idea...

He might, but your conclusion does not follow from your premise:

(1) House Democrats make a proposal
...
(2) Clearly, Obama is a socialist!

C'mon, that's just silly and you know it.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

JOhn Mccain is not a socialist - Oblahma is. He is for it or it wouldn't have been floated...

[TheHumanAlphabet]

He might, but your conclusion does not follow from your premise:

(1) House Democrats make a proposal
...
(2) Clearly, Obama is a socialist!

C'mon, that's just silly and you know it.

Regardless of who proposed it. Do you deny Oblahma is a socialists?

[Vaevictis]

Regardless of who proposed it. Do you deny Oblahma is a socialists?

I do not deny that he has some socialistic policy proposals. I'm not sure that makes him a socialist.

[bri]

Regardless of who proposed it. Do you deny Oblahma is a socialists?

You know, it's really hard to take you seriously when you're talking like Turkish Superman.

[TUSooner]

You know, it's really hard to take you seriously when you're talking like Turkish Superman.

The right wing radio koolaid is coming out of his nose.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

No - its more like "fiscal conservative" kool-aid and the "I worked hard for my money and don't want the gubment telling me what to do with it" malt liquor drink...