Good read for voters on both sides

[tbl]

I don’t send out emails claiming Obama is a Muslim, terrorist, or the anti-Christ. I’m not on the lunatic fringe of the right that puts a bunch of ignorant emails out there in hopes that it will scare people into voting the other way (or worse than that, actually believing them). That said, this is a good article for anybody that is either on the fence or has decided to vote for Obama. It’s long, but a very good read nonetheless.

For the record, I do NOT agree with Neal Boortz on abortion as he leans toward the anti-life side. That issue is not dealt with in this email, though to me that is an issue that is not debatable. I also believe this is in a sense a race for the lesser of two evils, even if you happen to think one of those evils is Sarah Palin as McCains VP. She may be inexperienced, but there’s no doubt in my mind I’d rather have her in the White House than Obama.

At any rate, please take the time to read this before you vote. Lots... of.... words...

http://boortz.com/nuze/undecided.html

[JohnnyMack]

I voted for the Republican candidate six times and the Libertarian four. Never have I voted for a Democrat for president. I see no need to vote for a Democrat since I have no plans or desires to become a ward of the government. Somehow I don't think 2008 is going to be the first time.

Should I keep reading?

[tbl]

Should I keep reading?

Why wouldn't you?

http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/head-in-the-sand.jpg

[JohnnyMack]

Because I'm well aware of Neil Boortz's theories on government (as I listen to him a few times a week) and am not apt to change my mind because of your thread?

[tbl]

http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/head-in-the-sand.jpg

[tbl]

If you knew it was from Boortz and you know everything about what he's saying on the over 6,000 word article, then why did you click on it to begin with???

[JohnnyMack]

To humor you?

[JohnnyMack]

http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/head-in-the-sand.jpg

Yes. Right. My head is in the sand. How witty. How...clever.

[tbl]

Yes. Right. My head is in the sand. How witty. How...clever.

Thanks!

Seriously, I'd like somebody who supports Obama to read this article and refute it with facts. Otherwise, you're saying you agree with his politics, the article is mostly accurate, and you're happy with socialism.

[froneal]

I didn't read through the whole thing, but I definitely will later.

Why is McCain not held under the same microscope as Obama? He's had terrible gaffes, sinister associations and personal scandals, so why aren't people talking about them? Take his association as part of the Keating Five or the fact that he left his middle-aged, handicapped wife of 15 years for a 25-year-old rich girl. He was a war hero, yes, but that doesn't mean he's the best man for the job. I'm still undecided, but this Boortz guy seems like a real *******.



Boortz hosts the nationally-syndicated talk show, The Neal Boortz Show, where he routinely criticizes politicians, Muslim extremism, the homeless, public schools, liberals, people who he deems liberals, people who oppose the Iraq war, teachers, private citizens, people he disagrees with, smokers, the obese, welfare recipients, and people who drive at or below the speed limit. On air, Boortz refers to himself an "equal opportunity offender".


Give me a break.

[Stoop Dawg]

Should I keep reading?


Why wouldn't you?

Because it's the same stuff I've been reading for months.

And this:


By "Obama's Friends" we mean the likes of Jeremiah Wright, William Ayers, Tony Rezko and other assorted miscreants. I could spend a lot of time here detailing the crimes of Obama's friends --- and make no mistake, they were his friends.

I've seen no evidence that Obama and Ayers were personal friends. As far as I have heard, they served on some board together. I don't think you can call someone's co-workers "friends" and judge them by association on that count.

There are plenty of reasons to NOT vote for Obama, so there is no need to make stuff up. And when someone who claims to be a professional feels the need to bring blatantly false charges against someone just to discredit them, well, IMO it actually discredits the author.

[TUSooner]

This thread is mis-labeled. :mad:
It should have been " Boortz regurgitates same old anti-Omaba **** "

[Stoop Dawg]

Seriously, I'd like somebody who supports Obama to read this article and refute it with facts.

I'll make no attempt to refute their (oh-so refutable) arguments here. ;)

[tbl]

So is he wrong on the politics of Obama? I don't see where he is, and nobody here has stated anything otherwise.

USSA

[froneal]

I'm not on board with the universal health care plan, mainly because I think the U.S. is way too populous and widespread for it to be implemented here without major headaches. As far as the tax plan, I don't really see how it's "bad," unless you're already rich. I'm a college graduate looking for work, and probably for the next 5-10 years won't see a dime over $40k/year, if that, so Obama's plan is looking fairly appealing.

[Stoop Dawg]

So is he wrong on the politics of Obama? I don't see where he is, and nobody here has stated anything otherwise.

USSA

I didn't read far enough to see if he was wrong about Obama's politics. I stopped when he was wrong about Obama's "friends" - and when it became obvious he was willing to lie to push his agenda.

Plus, I have no intention of voting for Obama anyway.

[soonerscuba]

Remember when we would all be wards of the state and the economy would be crushed under Clinton? Good times.

Hyperbole won't save the Republicans this time around.

[StoopTroup]

I just got this in an email this morning...

These things never have a link...

They never seem researched...

They just get copied and pasted.


Subject: FW: You better read this..... PLEASE PLEASE READ !!!!


This is too important not to read!!!! PLEASE, PLEASE READ!!!



The following is a narrative taken from Sunday Morning's televised 'Meet The
Press, and the author is employed the Washington Post. Yes, Washington Post. It
was a very interesting insight into the belief system of the possible next
President of the United States .

From Sunday's Televised 'Meet the Press' Senator Obama was asked about his
stance on the American Flag. Obama explained his National Anthem Stance:

On Sunday September 7, 2008 at 11:48:04 EDT, General Bill Ginn USAF (ret.) asked
Obama to explain why he doesn't follow protocol when the National Anthem is
played The General went on to state to the Senator that according to the United
States Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171: 'During rendition of the national
anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform are
expected to stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the
heart, or at the very least, to Stand and Face It'.


Senator Obama, Live on Sunday, stated 'As I've said about the flag pin, I don't
want to be perceived as taking sides' Obama further said. 'There are a lot of
people in the world to whom the American flag is a symbol of oppression And the
anthem itself conveys a war-like message. You know, the bombs bursting in air
and all. It should be swapped for something less parochial and les
s bellicose. I like the song 'I'd Like To Teach the World To Sing.'.

If that were our anthem, then I might salute it. We should consider to reinvent
our National Anthem as well as to redesign our Flag to better offer our enemies
hope and love. It's my intention, if elected, to disarm America to the level of
acceptance to our Middle East Brethren. If we as a Nation of warring people,
should conduct ourselves as the nations of Islam, whereas peace prevails, then
perhaps a state or period of mutual concord would occur between our governments.

When I become President, I will seek a pact or agreement to end hostilities
between those who have been at war or in a state of enmity, and a freedom from

disquieting oppressive thoughts. We as a Nation have placed upon the nations of
Islam an unfair injustice.

My wife disrespects the Flag for many personal reasons. Together she and I
have attended several flag burning ceremonies in the past, many years ago. She
has her views and I have mine'. Of course now, I have found myself about to
become the President of the United States and I have put aside my hatred. I will
use my power to bring CHANGE to this Nation, and offer the people a new path of
hope.

My wife and I look forward to becoming our Country's First Family. Indeed,
CHANGE is about to overwhelm the United States of America .'


Yes, ladies and gentlemen, you heard
it right. This could possibly be our next President. I, for one, am speechless.


Dale Lindsborg ,


Washington Post

I didn't even see where Gen. Bill Ginn was on the show...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26559058/

[Frozen Sooner]

Interestingly enough, neither Obama nor this putative General appeared on Meet the Press on September 7th.

[TUSooner]

It's amazing our country has surivived as long as it has since so many people vote based on pure horse**** about the other side.
If you don't appreciate he genius of the Founders' multiple divisions of power, you are not paying attention. It keeps the idiots from uniting to kill us all.

[SoonerStormchaser]

Why is McCain not held under the same microscope as Obama? He's had terrible gaffes, sinister associations and personal scandals, so why aren't people talking about them? Take his association as part of the Keating Five or the fact that he left his middle-aged, handicapped wife of 15 years for a 25-year-old rich girl. He was a war hero, yes, but that doesn't mean he's the best man for the job.

Really? Sinister associations? Care to name someone?

The media hasn't hit him on gaffes? Where the hell have you been? He's made a ****ton of gaffes and the media has completely jumped on him for them.

As far as the ex-wife is concerned, he's admitted it WAS his fault...he's apoligized for it, his ex has stated she has no hard feelings, and they've moved on. And WTF does Cindy being rich have to do with anything?

Give me a break on the Keating Five...he's been apoligetic about it...and that was twenty freakin years ago. Your boy Barack has been CONTINUOUSLY associated with the likes of Ayers and his holiness Rev. Wright and has buried his head in the sand claiming "he didn't know" of their racist/terrorist rantings. BULL****! If he's that stupid or ignorant that he doesn't know of their past, then how on earth can ANYONE trust him to be the President? Oh and by the way, four of the five in the Keating Five were Democrats, and their punishment was far worse than anything JSM got (and this punishment was handed down by a Dem Congress).

[Viking Kitten]

I like the song 'I'd Like To Teach the World To Sing.' If that were our anthem, then I might salute it.

That's comedy gold, right there. ST's e-mail originally came from the Onion or something and somebody got duped into thinking it was real, right? Like the time somebody posted the video of that U.S. senator introducing a bill to outlaw skull f**king? That was awesome.

[Echoes]

I just got this in an email this morning...

These things never have a link...

They never seem researched...

They just get copied and pasted.



LOL. Wow ST, that e-mail is wayyyy out there. I really love to read those though. It's very similar to the hardcore crazy tabloids you always see in the grocery store. You know they are so fabricated it's unbelievable, but the interesting thing about them is that there is always someone right next to you (or behind another computer screen in this case) who believes that crap verbatim. Good find on that one!

[Viking Kitten]

LOL. Wow ST, that e-mail is wayyyy out there. I really love to read those though. It's very similar to the hardcore crazy tabloids you always see in the grocery store. You know they are so fabricated it's unbelievable, but the interesting thing about them is that there is always someone right next to you (or behind another computer screen in this case) who believes that crap verbatim. Good find on that one!

Oh you know how that goes. Urban legends are hard to put down. I've met so many people who swear to me their cousin's friend's aunt was the nurse on duty in the ER when the Mathis brother came in with the gerbil stuck up his butt. There must have been like 500 nurses on duty that night.

[JohnnyMack]

Oh you know how that goes. Urban legends are hard to put down. I've met so many people who swear to me their cousin's friend's aunt was the nurse on duty in the ER when the Mathis brother came in with the gerbil stuck up his butt. There must have been like 500 nurses on duty that night.

IBRichardGere

[StoopTroup]

MY Aunt...God love her...she really believes he's a Muslim Terrorist I think.

[Viking Kitten]

Grandpa finally took me off his "Obama is the Antichrist" e-mail list. God bless him. However he still sends the stuff to my meth addicted, out-of-wedlock-kid havin', Free Soonercare health insurance usin', Section 8 waitlisted, single mom of a niece, who is voting for McCain because Obama wants to kill babies.

*sigh*

[Frozen Sooner]

Really? Sinister associations? Care to name someone?

The US Council for World Freedom, which was involved with illegally supplying arms to Latin American revolutionary groups. While McCain served on the CWF's board, it was heavily involved with the World Anti-Communist League, and organization that the Anti-Defamation League has characterized as extremely anti-Semitic. The WACL, in fact, once tried to claim the Pope was Jewish.

G. Gordon Liddy, a convicted felon who used illegal and thuggish tactics to attempt to subvert a presidential election and has as recently as the late 90s advocated the use of lethal force against government employees.

[batonrougesooner]

I read the article.

I thought it was intelligent and well written. I'm not an undecided voter though.

[tbl]

I read the article.

I thought it was intelligent and well written. I'm not an undecided voter though.

Neither am I, but I still thought it was well written. Apparently the people that love the Emperors new clothes refuse to see anything else.

[Frozen Sooner]

That brings us to piece of legislation – a piece of Obama sponsored legislation --designated as H.R. 800, the Employee Free Choice Act. Would you care to guess just what H.R. 800 does? Well, that's simple. It will eliminate the secret ballot in union recognition elections.

This is false, as it happens.

The Employee Free Choice Act forces employers to recognize unions if half of the workforce signs union cards. This is somehow being spun as "eliminating the secret ballot," as union cards aren't secret. However, if a third of the employees choose to do so, the EFCA still provides for an NRLB election which is by secret ballot.

There is no debate with a piece of this sort, because the author has presupposed several notions to which I have not stipulated. "Fairness" is not Marxist or communist-and in fact is supported by Adam Smith in Wealth of Nations. He makes the claim that 80% of people supporting Obama want the Supreme Court to rule on the basis of "fairness" rather than the Constitution, without defining what these people call fairness or the methodology of his (I'm sure scientific) survey.

Boortz is free to vote for whomever he wishes. But I wish he wouldn't pass off half-baked research and outright falsehoods as a reason to vote the way he is.

[froneal]

Really? Sinister associations? Care to name someone?

The media hasn't hit him on gaffes? Where the hell have you been? He's made a ****ton of gaffes and the media has completely jumped on him for them.

As far as the ex-wife is concerned, he's admitted it WAS his fault...he's apoligized for it, his ex has stated she has no hard feelings, and they've moved on. And WTF does Cindy being rich have to do with anything?

Give me a break on the Keating Five...he's been apoligetic about it...and that was twenty freakin years ago. Your boy Barack has been CONTINUOUSLY associated with the likes of Ayers and his holiness Rev. Wright and has buried his head in the sand claiming "he didn't know" of their racist/terrorist rantings. BULL****! If he's that stupid or ignorant that he doesn't know of their past, then how on earth can ANYONE trust him to be the President? Oh and by the way, four of the five in the Keating Five were Democrats, and their punishment was far worse than anything JSM got (and this punishment was handed down by a Dem Congress).

Well, I meant why is McCain not held under the microscope on this board more than the media. Of course McCain's verbal misgivings have netted him a fair share of flak, but you wouldn't know from the way some posters idolize the guy.

OK, on the Keating scandal. McCain was the only senator with personal ties to Charles Keating. Over 5 years, he accepted $112,000 in political contributions on behalf of Keating, and Cindy McCain and her dad invested $359,100 in a Keating shopping mall a year before McCain met with the other senators and set off the whole debacle. Doesn't that seem a bit disingenuous? McCain admits it was the "worst mistake in his life," so it's just water under the bridge? Many people thought he got off easy. John Glenn (a Democrat) got the same punishment as McCain (which is to say, a slap on the wrist a wag of the finger). I wouldn't know, I was 4 years old in 1989. So, OK, take that one off.

Then you've got his ties with G. Gordon Liddy, who Mike Rich just touched on briefly. Liddy is a guy who, while Ayers and the Weathermen were wreaking havoc on Chicago, was one of the key players in Watergate. A guy who planned to assassinate a journalist, kidnap anti-war protesters, and other nasty stuff? McCain posed for photos with the guy in 1998 and took political contributions from him when he ran for re-election as senator. He went on Liddy's radio show in May 2007 and praised Liddy's contributions to the country.



LIDDY: Your experience in the Hanoi Hilton is remarkable. I mean, I put in five years in a prison [for masterminding the Watergate burglary, and associated crimes], but it was here in the United States, and they didn't torture - the only torture that I had was being forced to listen to rap music from time to time.

McCAIN: Well, you know, I'm proud of you. I'm proud of your family. I'm proud to know your son, Tom, who's a great and wonderful guy. And it's always a pleasure for me to come on your program, Gordon. And congratulations on your continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great.


Like...****ing seriously?

I didn't even know about the US Council for World Freedom, so I'm going to have to read up on that.

My "boy" Barack has time and time again debunked his purported "relationship" with Ayers, and so have a number of well-known media outlets. Their relationship is tenuous at best. The fact that the Repubs are trying to spread this smear campaign against him is just another sign to me of their inability to run a campaign purely about the issues. That isn't to say Obama hasn't run attack ads, but I think he's playing fair and not lambasting McCain on any of him former wrongdoings (which actually happened!).

Here's some more about Ayers from Obama:



This is a guy who lives in my neighborhood, who's a professor of English in Chicago who I know and who I have not received some official endorsement from. He's not somebody who I exchange ideas from on a regular basis. And the notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was eight years old, somehow reflects on me and my values doesn't make much sense.


Here is Michael Kensley, a pundit and outspoken critic of Ayers:



If Obama's relationship with Ayers, however tangential, exposes Obama as a radical himself, or at least as a man with terrible judgment, he shares that radicalism or terrible judgment with a comically respectable list of Chicagoans and others — including Republicans and conservatives — who have embraced Ayers and Dohrn as good company, good citizens, even experts on children's issues...Ayers and Dohrn are despicable, and yet making an issue of Obama's relationship with them is absurd.


Here is William C. Ibershof, the lead federal prosecutor of the Weathermen case in the '70s:



I am amazed and outraged that Senator Barack Obama is being linked to William Ayers’s terrorist activities 40 years ago when Mr. Obama was, as he has noted, just a child. Although I dearly wanted to obtain convictions against all the Weathermen, including Bill Ayers, I am very pleased to learn that he has become a responsible citizen.


So let's figure out what happened:

- Bill Ayers was part of a radical left wing group who bombed federal buildings and banks from 1970-1975. Preceding these bombings were warning to those occupying the buildings to evacuate immediately. The bombings were in protest of the U.S. occupation of Vietnam. It wasn't a "let's **** everything up for the hell of it" thing. I'm not saying it's right, but they weren't bombing buildings for the express purpose of killing innocent people.
- During this time, Obama was a child, who moved from Indonesia to Hawaii in 1971, where he graduated from high school in 1979. No connection there.
- After all the hubbub of trying to convict Ayers, nothing ever materialized. His wife got three years probation, a fine, and another seven months of jail for refusing to testify against any other Weathermen. Ayers wasn't convicted of anything. Eventually he became a well known author, education theorist and professor at the University of Chicago. He is now well respected among his peers and in and around the Hyde Park area of Chicago.
- Barack Obama comes through Chicago, lives in the same neighborhood, and is part of a committee with Ayers that met four times a year to approve grants. They also appeared together in two academic panel discussions in Chicago.
- That's it. There's no other connection to be seen. They aren't "friends," they don't discuss issues with each other, Obama's campaign didn't "start in Ayers' living room." It's all just half-truths and half-baked assertions that have no bearing on the election.

Instead of arguing the issues, McCain's resorting to this stupid "six degrees of separation" game that isn't winning him any votes from the middle, which he should be worried about. Chances are if you're a right-winger, you're voting for McCain, so why does he continue to pound away at this non-issue? It baffles me.

There are so many reasons not to vote for Obama. I personally think his proposed health care plan is retarded and won't work for the U.S., for example. Some people don't like his stance on the war on terror, his perceived lack of experience, his opinions on abortion, gun control, taxes, the environment, you name it. Some people don't like him because he's black. But relying on this unfounded telephone game the Repubs are playing is just being ignorant.

I'm a registered Republican. :D