"JOE the PLUMBER" for POTUS

[StoopTroup]

I'm thinking that after last nights debate....that if Sarah Palin is qualified to be VPOTUS....

Joe the Plumber might be qualified for POTUS.

What say you....

If Joe the Plumber was on the ticket...would you vote for him in 2 weeks? :D

[dolemitesooner]

YES...lmao

[StoopTroup]

YES...lmao

Dean for VPOTUS? :D

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

You realize that you insinuate the 3 Senators are more qualified to be Pres. than a Governor, don't you?

[StoopTroup]

You realize that you insinuate the 3 Senators are more qualified to be Pres. than a Governor, don't you?

You are mental aren't you?

[dolemitesooner]

You realize that you insinuate the 3 Senators are more qualified to be Pres. than a Governor, don't you?

Yes I am saying that. Problem?
She has only been a governer 2 years.

In order of experince
Mccain
Biden
Obama
palin

[Frozen Sooner]

Hm. A relative of Keating's who has admitted he lied about Obama's tax plan discouraging him from buying a business who hasn't even registered to vote?

Where do I sign up?

Pardon me, apparently he is registered to vote. His name is misspelled on the voter registration rolls.

Which means that I'm sure that republican poll-watchers are going to try to make his ballot a provisional ballot.

[NormanPride]

What?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Yes I am saying that. Problem?
She has only been a governer 2 years.

In order of experince
Mccain
Biden
Obama
palinHow Silly!

[KC//CRIMSON]

Joe The Plumber - "I guarantee to pump the shizt right out of Washington!"

[dolemitesooner]

How Silly!I'll tell you what is silly.

Whne you bash and bash and bash the other side everyday for no reason at all other then blind faith in your one party.

You agree with every single thing you are spoon feed from the right. You have no opinions of your own, and you have no idea how to communicate with people so that they might like you and listen to your opinions. You will never win anyone over because I you push is your propaganda.

I am a registered republican, and I am voting for Obama.

I am voting for him because I like his energy policies more. I like his tax policies because I believe there has been a huge movement of weath from the middle class to the highest class, and I like that he keeps his cool in a debate.
I don't like his thoughts on Health, and I don't know what to think about Iraq.

I think McCain has some good Ideas also, but I like more of Obama.

Now If you wanna talk polotics we can do that. I is getting so old bashing the other side. Thats all you seem to know how to do.

If I were you I would wonder why people get some angry with me. Well its because you bait people and push and push ans push your right wing thoughts on people. None of which are your own original thought which is obvious by you name.

god what did I just say.

This guy makes me so angry. Sigh

[Sooner98]

Looks like the next mission of the left is to destroy Joe the Plumber and his credibility. You just know that dozens of Democratic operatives have already descended like the vultures that they are upon Holland, Ohio, to dig up anything they can on Mr. McPlumbington to discredit him. I'm sure we'll shortly be hearing about how his eighth-grade son was suspended from school for getting in a fight last year, and therefore we must all vote for Obama.

[Pricetag]

I thought the whole thing was trite. I wish Obama had had the cajones to not participate.

[KC//CRIMSON]

I'll tell you what is silly.

Whne you bash and bash and bash the other side everyday for no reason at all other then blind faith in your one party.

You agree with every single thing you are spoon feed from the right. You have no opinions of your own, and you have no idea how to communicate with people so that they might like you and listen to your opinions. You will never win anyone over because I you push is your propaganda.

I am a registered republican, and I am voting for Obama.

I am voting for him because I like his energy policies more. I like his tax policies because I believe there has been a huge movement of weath from the middle class to the highest class, and I like that he keeps his cool in a debate.
I don't like his thoughts on Health, and I don't know what to think about Iraq.

I think McCain has some good Ideas also, but I like more of Obama.

Now If you wanna talk polotics we can do that. I is getting so old bashing the other side. Thats all you seem to know how to do.

If I were you I would wonder why people get some angry with me. Well its because you bait people and push and push ans push your right wing thoughts on people. None of which are your own original thought which is obvious by you name.

god what did I just say.

This guy makes me so angry. Sigh


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j66/geriko2k/8addb9b4.gif

[Widescreen]

I like his tax policies because I believe there has been a huge movement of weath from the middle class to the highest class

So we're the United Soviet States of America? Punish the rich!!!!11!!

[IB4OU2]

god what did I just say.



You just said your a Commie Socialist...;)

[sooner n houston]

You boys need to look at Obama's record on taxes. Has he ever voted against a tax increase???

[SoonerInKCMO]

So we're the United Soviet States of America? Punish the rich!!!!11!!

Not 'punish' - make 'em pay higher dues to belong to the only club that would allow them their wealth, freedom and lifestyle.

[yermom]

So we're the United Soviet States of America? Punish the rich!!!!11!!

how about we not punish the not rich ;)

[Tulsa_Fireman]

The whole damn thing is hilarious.

George Bush done spent all yous moneys! He's CRAAAAAZY with your tax dollars! He spends like it was water! He be de debbil!

So let's vote for a clown that's going to raise taxes, REGARDLESS of where and upon whom, to fund the deficiencies created by the mindless spending and to fund the NEW spending.

If the President's slinging of the dollar like it was a six-gun was bad, where's the outcry for a REDUCTION in spending? Where's the cry for cuts? Where's the scream for leaner government? Obama is the first to pound the podium about Bush's failed fiscal policy, but the answer apparently is to tax the **** out of the rich folks to pay for the current buttfest coupled with the coming buttfest in spending he's gonna throw. But you middle-classers, you're gonna see a tax cut! Yay for you!

Howzabout tightening the belt, keeping the Bush tax cuts and reduce capital gains tax, and throttle federal spending by the throat until it gets to a more reasonable level? That can't be smart. It's what we do as middle-class individuals so it CAN'T make sense.

*foreheadslap*

[Widescreen]

Howzabout tightening the belt, keeping the Bush tax cuts and reduce capital gains tax, and throttle federal spending by the throat until it gets to a more reasonable level? That can't be smart. It's what we do as middle-class individuals so it CAN'T make sense.

I totally agree about reducing spending. But this won't happen because of all the federal entitlements. And now more are on the way with Obama.

[StoopTroup]

Ya'll just shut up and vote....lol

[olevetonahill]

Ya'll just shut up and vote....lol

Bro you succs at the poles.
wheres the Olevet Option ?
wheres the Just gimmie the vCash option ?
Shakes head and votes anyway .:P

[Whet]

.
I'll tell you what is silly.

I am a registered republican, and I am voting for Obama.

I am voting for him because I like his energy policies more. His energy policy does not include drilling off-shore, which would allow us to become more energy divergent. Unfortunately, in the politik speak of the left, we can make a magical jump from hydrocarbon-based energy consumption, to solar, wind, hydo, clean coal, and nuclear. There are issues with most all of the alternatives, which is why the Repubs have insisted on opening up more areas for drilling - to tide us over, until those technologies become more available. Currently, solar cell production cost is so high, it would take a homeowner almost 30 years to recoup the cost of installing an effective solar powered option for a household. If you recall, several of the environmental groups have lambasted wind turbines because of the high fatality rate of birds that fly into the blades - also, they are an eye sore, you can ask the Kennedy clan about that. Clean coal - well, if you look at anthracite coal, it still has heavy metals, which will require scrubbers on the stacks to reduce emissions. The most abundant coal - bituminous - is softer, typically has a sulpher content, in addition to heavy metals. These too would require construction of multiple scrubber units. Plus, you will have the disposal of the toxic heavy metals from the scrubbers that will require disposal into hazardous waste landfills. Now, nuclear power - in addition to the billions of dollars it takes to construct a facility, due to NIMBYs and regulatory constraints, it would take 10-12 years to construct a new facility. What about the spend fuel rods? There would be a need for reprocessing facilities to handle those spent rods and where would a plant like that be built? It would require nuclear facilities to ship their spent rods across country to the processing facilities. How would that play out?

All of this also requires those existing facilities that are currently using oil, as fuel, to convert to electrical power - what would the cost and timeframe for that entail? Certainly not overnight! A lot of the northeastern homes are heated with "heating fuel," aka diesel. All of those homes would be required to replace those oil-fired furnaces with electric furnaces - what would that cost?

Oh wait, what about flex and alternative fuel cars? Yes, they pop up over night too! If production started on CNG fueled vehicles, that would be great - but where would you refill them? Same with fuel cells. Ethanol is not the answer - at least not from corn.

Thus, for the next 15-20 years, the US will be dependent on petroleum. The question is, where do we get that oil for the next 15-20 years? The Repubs want to use our reserves to tide us over, the Dems want to continue to rely on foreign oil. The US does not need to produce its entire daily needs, but rather for the amount of oil that is derived from the mideast and Venezuela. The largest supplier of oil to the US is Canada, we can continue to use them as an importer, not the mideast and Venezuela. That can be accomplished by domestic drilling - off shore, Continental Shelf, and yes, perhaps even Anwar...

So, the true difference between Obama's plan and the Repubs plan is simple: Obama - continue to use mideast and Venezuela sources, until the other technologies are online; and McCain's - which relies on US domestic supplies to tide us over. You prefer sending more money to those regimes that hate us?

I like his tax policies because I believe there has been a huge movement of weath from the middle class to the highest class, and That is a falsehood spread by the Dems. Obama's basic plan, as he stated to the plumer is: income redistribution - penalize some for being successful to give to others. Dolo - you worked overtime and made an extra $100. In addition to the excessive taxes we already take out, we are going to take an additional amount because we think you made too much money - we will give that money we take from you and give it to someone who didn't make as much as you. Do you really favor this type of socalistic behavior? Do you really believe the best way out of economic ression is to tax your way out? Do you believe more government spending will help this country, or hurt it? The runaway spending by the current administration has already put a deep burden on us, you want a larger burden? Don't believe Obama's claim of "only taxing those making more than $250K/year." You don't have to be a Bruce to have both husband and wife pulling in that amount!

I like that he keeps his cool in a debate. That really isn't something I would personally make a decision on who I would vote as my next president!

I don't like his thoughts on Health, and That is just part of his socalist adgenda.

I don't know what to think about Iraq. So, you go with the guy that got it wrong on how to handle Iraq, the guy that wanted to start pulling folks out, in the middle of the conflict?

I think McCain has some good Ideas also, but I like more of Obama. I take it you were not around during the failed Jimmy Carter years? But, if that is who you really believe is the best choice for this country, as does Michael Moore, Babs Streisand and her ilk on the west coast, the Castro brothers, Hugo Chavez, Louis Farakkan, and Jimmy Carter - more power to ya!

[NormanPride]

America is a dead beat dad that's 7 months late on child support. America needs to get a second job and pay off its debts before it can buy that new car it wants so it can pick up high school chicks.

[Widescreen]

America needs to quit thinking with its weenis.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

My weenis told me to vote for Cindy McCain.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Whet needs to quit posting.

And Cindy McCain is GROSS. Blech...

[Tulsa_Fireman]

I'd drive it in Cindy like John Henry drove a railspike.

Tulsa Fireman was a Cindy-drivin' man, oh lawd!

[LosAngelesSooner]

But we've already established that you have no standards...

[Tulsa_Fireman]

I have great standards. Cindy is totally in the spank bank because for an old chick, she's smokin'.

I'd lick her butt.

[NormanPride]

Wow.

[batonrougesooner]

I am a registered republican, and I am voting for Obama.

I like his tax policies because I believe there has been a huge movement of weath from the middle class to the highest class, and I like that he keeps his cool in a debate.


So you are a socialist who likes good debators?

This is one of the major misconceptions of socialists. There isn't a finite amount of wealth to be had. Wealth creates more wealth.

I'm afraid that the people who view the world like you do are begining to far outweight the number who don't. If this line of thinking continues, our free-market society can't survive.

As to the original question.

I think Joe the Plumber is more in touch with everyday Americans that Joe the Biden.

[Penguin]

I'm trying to follow this whole Joe thing.

So, this guy is making $80K a year, I guess. Now, this guy wants to buy a business. So, let's say that he will now be making $300K a year. He is shocked that he will be paying higher taxes? Is that his problem? I'm pretty sure that when you make more money, you pay more taxes.

This guy wants to make $300K/yr and only pay taxes as if he was still making $80K/yr?

[JohnnyMack]

Turns out Joe the plumber isn't a licensed plumber, makes 40k a year, has no real plans to buy his bosses business and the business in question had revenue of only 100k last year.

BUT, if he had done 280k a year like he claimed, the additional taxes he would face would be about $900.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27221645

MAVRICK!!!!!

[Widescreen]

I don't think that's what he's saying. I doubt he's concerned with the raw $$$ amount of tax but the percentage.

My question is if he's talking about $300k gross or net. If it's gross, Obama's plan might not hurt him too bad.

[King Crimson]

didn't i see a preview for a Kevin Costner movie about this?

[LosAngelesSooner]

So you are a socialist who likes good debators?

This is one of the major misconceptions of socialists. There isn't a finite amount of wealth to be had. Wealth creates more wealth.

I'm afraid that the people who view the world like you do are begining to far outweight the number who don't. If this line of thinking continues, our free-market society can't survive.

As to the original question.

I think Joe the Plumber is more in touch with everyday Americans that Joe the Biden.Why do you hate Star Trek?

[batonrougesooner]

Why do you hate Star Trek?

I don't.

I want to live long and prosper just like the next guy. It's the American dream.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I don't.

I want to live long and prosper just like the next guy. It's the American dream.But in Star Trek there is no free market and there is no currency. ;)

[Tulsa_Fireman]

I'd zap Cindy McCain with my love-phaser.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I don't think that's what he's saying. I doubt he's concerned with the raw $$$ amount of tax but the percentage.

My question is if he's talking about $300k gross or net. If it's gross, Obama's plan might not hurt him too bad.Obama intentionally, I would think, leaves out whether he means gross profit or gross revenue. The MSM won't even ask him what he means. TRY TO IMAGINE a republican doing the same thing....twilight zone, eh?

[royalfan5]

But in Star Trek there is no free market and there is no currency. ;)
Bull****, there is a free market and currency in Deep Space 9.

[Edmond Sooner]

Bull****, there is a free market and currency in Deep Space 9.

Yep. And hot Dabo girls.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Bull****, there is a free market and currency in Deep Space 9.But it's not Federation. It's Ferengi.

In the world of Star Trek, in the Federation of Planets, there is no money or currency.

[Jerk]

Turns out Joe the plumber isn't a licensed plumber, makes 40k a year, has no real plans to buy his bosses business and the business in question had revenue of only 100k last year.

BUT, if he had done 280k a year like he claimed, the additional taxes he would face would be about $900.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27221645

MAVRICK!!!!!


It's not about what Joe The Plumber said, it's about what Obama the socialist said in response.

[Edmond Sooner]

But it's not Federation. It's Ferengi.

In the world of Star Trek, in the Federation of Planets, there is no money or currency.

I often wondered how Bashir & O'Brien paid for their drinks in Quarks, since they didn't pull down a paycheck. :confused:

[LosAngelesSooner]

Federation "credit" extended by the Ferengi as payment for being able to open a bar on the base (or something like that).

[Penguin]

We go from presidential politics to Federation economics.


This is why the South Oval makes me sick. And I don't mean that new, cool kind of sick, either! :mad:

[royalfan5]

But it's not Federation. It's Ferengi.

In the world of Star Trek, in the Federation of Planets, there is no money or currency.

Encounter at Farpoint also contained reference to money as Dr. Crusher wished to purchase something at Farpoint Station.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Don't argue with me, dood. Go look it up on some nerdy "Star Trek Facts" web page. The Federation got rid of money. Period. They freakin' brag about it all the time.

Maybe other "less civilized" societies like the Ferengi didn't, but the Federation did.

From some NERD page somewhere off of Google: http://robotics.caltech.edu/~mason/ramblings/moneyInStarTrek.html (http://robotics.caltech.edu/%7Emason/ramblings/moneyInStarTrek.html)

Do they use money on Star Trek or not?


- - - -
Sometimes I think the main pleasure that Star Trek affords is the game of explaining the horrendous logical problems that crop up so often.

Many people have observed an inconsistency in the attitude of Star Trek characters towards money. In episodes of both the original and the more recent series, the characters often describe the Federation as if it were a perfect socialist (or at any rate, post-capitalist) society, where there is no money and nobody wants for material things. In the movie Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, Captain Kirk says that they don't use money in the future. In the movie Star Trek: First Contact, Captain Picard says that in the future no one is motivated by the desire for material wealth. And so on.

But at other times, capitalism seems alive and well in the Star Trek universe. There are money-grubbing space traders like Harry Mudd. The Enterprise crewmembers sometimes spend "credits". The inhabitants of Deep Space Nine gamble in a casino, winning and losing bars of precious latinum. So what gives?

In this case I think there is a logical explanation for the apparent inconsistency. Perhaps the Federation proper is a perfect socialist (or at least post-capitalist) society, where there is no money. But aliens outside the Federation, and quasi-outlaws like Harry Mudd, continue to operate in a capitalist manner. Starfleet personnel, out on the fringes of the Federation, are understandably in a gray area. It may be useful for them to accumulate "credits" and "bars of latinum" to trade with people who care for such things, even if money wouldn't be of any use back home on Earth.

I think this fix works pretty well because (arguably) almost all we see of the Federation are the crews of starships and starbases and scientific outposts on the wild frontier. We see little or nothing of ordinary people living their lives in the heavily-populated core worlds of the Federation. Kirk and Picard may be thinking primarily of these people when bragging about how their society has evolved beyond the need for money.

[royalfan5]

Don't argue with me, dood. Go look it up on some nerdy "Star Trek Facts" web page. The Federation got rid of money. Period. They freakin' brag about it all the time.

Maybe other "less civilized" societies like the Ferengi didn't, but the Federation did.

The nerdy Trek board I post on has had plenty of arguments about the Socialist nature of the Federation. It's not the closed case you would like to believe.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Picard is the final word on all that is Trek. (imho)

[royalfan5]

Picard is the final word on all that is Trek. (imho)

Clearly you've never enjoyed the cockfight of social misfits that is a heavily trafficked Trek board. The SO might as well be an Ivy League debating society compared that.

[Edmond Sooner]

The nerdy Trek board I post on has had plenty of arguments about the Socialist nature of the Federation. It's not the closed case you would like to believe.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn274/apocalypsehow/images3.jpg

"Mr. Chekhov, I'm starting to smell a big fat commie rat." :mad:

[LosAngelesSooner]

Also: http://vanparecon.resist.ca/StarTrekEcon/index.html


As far as I know, the creators and owners of Star Trek have never made specific the economic system that is used in the Star Trek universe. I doubt they have much of an idea, other than it's not capitalism, doesn't use "free" markets, and is probably quite just. From various quotes from movies and the TV shows, we know that they don't use money (Star Trek IV), they use "credits" (Deep Space Nine), that the encouraged point to life is self improvement, not aggrandizement by wealth (The Next Generation), and that other species outside the Federation (like the Ferengi) use something called "Gold Pressed Latinum" for interstellar trading, but this is not used by the Federation for internal trading.

Amazingly enough, there does exist a proposed economic system that seems to fit quite well with these clues. It's called Participatory Economics (http://www.parecon.org/) (or "parecon" for short). For the vast majority of people that have never heard about it, it was developed mainly by two people, Micheal Albert and Robin Hahnel in the 1980's to early 1990's, when the first books came out on it (see Looking Forward (http://www.parecon.org/lookingforward/toc.htm) and The Political Economy of Participatory Economics (http://www.zmag.org/books/polpar.htm) and very recently see Parecon:Life after Capitalism (http://www.zmag.org/ParEcon/pelac.htm)). The people interested in learning about it and promoting it are people that want to change the world for the better, and think that we need to overhaul the entire economic/political/community/kinship system that we have today in order to do this. You know, anti-capitalist lefties who are NOT communists.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Clearly you've never enjoyed the cockfight of social misfits that is a heavily trafficked Trek board. The SO might as well be an Ivy League debating society compared that.Nope. But I DID have a good friend who is a comic geek try to get me into a comic board which ended up just being thread after thread of which superhero would kick another superhero's butt in a fight.

Apparently Batman (with prep time) PWNS ALL.

[royalfan5]

http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=59407

[KC//CRIMSON]

McCranky is coming up on Letterman.

[royalfan5]

Nope. But I DID have a good friend who is a comic geek try to get me into a comic board which ended up just being thread after thread of which superhero would kick another superhero's butt in a fight.

Apparently Batman (with prep time) PWNS ALL.

The off topic Trek stuff is way better than that. You have Finnish dudes posting manifestos about how homosexuality should be mandatory, and much better crackpot conspiracy theories, and a guy who only posts rants about how everyone is a facist by only using sentence fragments.

[KC//CRIMSON]

Mavrick up next!

[batonrougesooner]

Mavrick up next!

Obama can be Goose.

[StoopTroup]

I heard that there is a rumor that Joe the Plumber might not even be registered to vote.

That would invalidate my poll.

At least you got some VCASH! :D

[King Crimson]

Joe's a ringer.

wait and see.

[Jerk]

You guys are getting away from the important part, again.

"Spread the Wealth"

Who Joe is or what he's done doesn't mean sh*t.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

You guys are getting away from the important part, again.

"Spread the Wealth"

Who Joe is or what he's done doesn't mean sh*t.Our local Fox network(not FoxNews) station had a segment on the 10PM news about Joe the Plumber. They mentionaed he owed the IRS $1000, and showed him meeting Obma, wherever it was. They didn't show the part of the meeting where Obama told Joe he wanted to take his money to spread the wealth. He*l, if the Fox affiliate can't report the story correctly, then Shirley you don't expect our board commies to do so.

[Widescreen]

He may be a ringer. And that would suck except that Obama stuck his foot directly in it and exposed what he really thinks.

[StoopTroup]

You guys are getting away from the important part, again.

"Spread the Wealth"

Who Joe is or what he's done doesn't mean sh*t.

What it really means is that anyone can be adopted and born in Hawaii and become President someday and can have any friends that he wants until he realizes they are riding his coat tails. Then he can shrug them off like any old rich guy from Arixona might do.

Or that if you take one of RLIMC's rants and ask Obama a question and then post it on youtube...you tube can become an internet legend like Al Gore.

Or maybe it doesn't mean **** and this was supposed to show that most people don't really care...they just want VCASH even though it wasn't a choice in the poll.