DON'T INTERFERE with our ILLEGALS VOTING!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Who is surprised by this?

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/justice-dept-targets-gop-activists-warning-of-illegal-voting/

[Whet]

I am shocked! Absolutely shocked! Shocked that someone would actually send a letter to people, telling them only American citizens can vote!

This is an inclusive country!

(t-i-c, of course!)

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I am shocked! Absolutely shocked! Shocked that someone would actually send a letter to people, telling them only American citizens can vote!

This is an inclusive country!

(t-i-c, of course!)Too many criminals in too many high places!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Why isn't the FBI after those lawyers?

[SoonerStormchaser]

It saddens me that I protect some of these peoples' freedoms...cuz they shouldn't be here in the first place.

[Ton Loc]

That sucks.

This is why you do not talk to police/fbi/cia/ under any circumstance even if you're innocent.

[LosAngelesSooner]

PAJAMASMEDIA.COM??? :rolleyes:

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Yes!! Right up there with Brokaw!!

[Edmond Sooner]

Who is surprised by this?

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/justice-dept-targets-gop-activists-warning-of-illegal-voting/

What is most infuriating is the Grand Jury gambit - no one likes to be hauled in front of one of those, for obvious reasons. Say anything other than your name, address, place of employment, and "I invoke my fifth amendment rights," and you're basically indictment bait.

It is harassment of the most base kind - harassment under color of authority.

[85Sooner]

Lock and load.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Where do the Republicans get these bozos to run for office? No wonder the pub party is dead in California.

But apparently it worked out well for the Democrats. Blue Dog Democrat Loretta Sanchez was re-elected.


It worked soooo well for Nugyen, maybe McCain should send a similar letter to African American households in Ebonics????? Not.

Brothaz and Sisterz,

Please vote only if ya iz legally registered
Don't make da FBI come ovah there bitch...
I be axin 4 ur vote.


On the issue of the letter itself, since the phrase "those with green cards" was translated to "emigrados" it may very well have intimidated some who may legally vote. Immigrants who become U.S. citizens are eligible to vote but they are still considered immigrants.

[Jerk]

One of the biggest mistakes that Bush ever made was not purging all the Clinton leftovers from Gov't.

You watch what BO will do cuz' I guarantee you he will do just that, 'cept it will be Bushies'.

[LosAngelesSooner]

One of the biggest mistakes that Bush ever made was not purging all the Clinton leftovers from Gov't.

You watch what BO will do cuz' I guarantee you he will do just that, 'cept it will be Bushies'.And thank GOD, considering what an unimaginable failure they and their policies have been.

[85Sooner]

And thank GOD, considering what an unimaginable failure they and their policies have been.

Which exact policies would that be?

He would have been much much better off to give them a free long trip off a short bridge in chapaquitic. Anyone who employs members of the other team and hopes to win them over is making a huge mistake. Especially when it comes to the egos in politics.

[Edmond Sooner]

Which exact policies would that be?

He would have been much much better off to give them a free long trip off a short bridge in chapaquitic. Anyone who employs members of the other team and hopes to win them over is making a huge mistake. Especially when it comes to the egos in politics.

Exactly. I remember when BC came to office the first thing he did was fire all of the U.S. attorneys so he could put his people in. All 93 of 'em. Never had much use for BC politically, but that was a smart move on his part.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Which exact policies would that be? ALL OF THEM.

Open your door and look around. Bush drove this country into the ground.

Now I can only hope that McCain (who SHOULD have been our President in 2000) can pull this thing out, get elected, fix this whole mess and STAY ALIVE FOR 4 YEARS.

[85Sooner]

ALL OF THEM.

Open your door and look around. Bush drove this country into the ground.

Now I can only hope that McCain (who SHOULD have been our President in 2000) can pull this thing out, get elected, fix this whole mess and STAY ALIVE FOR 4 YEARS.

Seriously, That is a pretty broad stroke. His SCOTUS picks have been pretty good if your a conservative. He did cut taxes for everyone who paid taxes. WE havn't been attacked again. Don't know if you can attribute that to him. just sayin. Cut Capitol gains taxes, cut the inheritance tax. Unemployement has been relatively low.

Granted I think he could have handled alot of things better ie: Education:he should have gotten rid of the Teachers unions rather than working with Senor Kennedy. The War: He followed his plan a little too long IMO but then again it is war. His actions (with the world that supposedly does not like us) led to elections in france and germany and spain that lean more conservative. Fighting the housing bubble would have been nice but he did not have a majority senate. Additionally, he should have fought the Oil/drilling battle during his first term but My biggest beef with him is the refusal to use the VETO pen on spending.

I don't know how old you are but the continual spiral of politicians of both ilks democrats in the 60's 70's 80's and pubs in the 00's spending and redistribution of wealth has perpetuated the something for nothing attitude that has been evergrowing in the US.

These factors along with the tax burden forcing familes to require 2 incomes has led to the breakdown in the family, welfare policies have led to too many kids born into one parent households. The educational system is a complete farce and producing uneducated populace that is taught social policy rather than the three R's . The insistance of the Gay and Lesbian lifestyle fanatics, the NAACP as well as the Environmental lobby has kept everyone so busy defending against BS accuasations themselves that real issues that should be of government concern, can't be addressed.

Many people in other countries call Americans spoiled whiny brats and that is what has continually been propogated and accepted for way to long.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I've got a lot of things to address, but not much time right this second.

However, you do realize that this statement:

The insistence (sic) of the Gay and Lesbian lifestyle fanaticsIs not only anti-traditional Republican views, but also denotes a preconceived bigotry on your part?

Just pointing it out and sincerely not intending to attack. I'll get back to you on the other issues via PM as soon as I get a chance. :)

[85Sooner]

This is not bigotry on my part but rather a simple reflection of what I experienced in many years of being in the theater arts community and reflecting on the opinions that were given to me at that time.

[LosAngelesSooner]

But to view their desire to be treated equally as "insistence of the Gay and Lesbian lifestyle" is an inherently bigoted interpretation of their basic human desire. It's Constitutionally their right to be treated equally. Currently there are several unconstitutional amendments on State Constitutions banning their right.

As a Republican, I'm opposed to government ever discriminating or litigating the bedroom.

[85Sooner]

But to view their desire to be treated equally as "insistence of the Gay and Lesbian lifestyle" is an inherently bigoted interpretation of their basic human desire. It's Constitutionally their right to be treated equally. Currently there are several unconstitutional amendments on State Constitutions banning their right.

As a Republican, I'm opposed to government ever discriminating or litigating the bedroom.

So how does one prove that they are "Gay or Lesbian". I know it sounds like a weird question but if you really think about it, I would like to know. What constitutes Gay or Lesbian.

[Harry Beanbag]

So how does one prove that they are "Gay or Lesbian". I know it sounds like a weird question but if you really think about it, I would like to know. What constitutes Gay or Lesbian.

I'm fairly certain I would not want the dudes to prove it to me.

[leavingthezoo]

So how does one prove that they are "Gay or Lesbian". I know it sounds like a weird question but if you really think about it, I would like to know. What constitutes Gay or Lesbian.

I guess it depends on which holes you're pokin' for lack of other hole availability, or with what you're poking holes 'cause you're missing a key hanging appendage.

:D

[LosAngelesSooner]

So how does one prove that they are "Gay or Lesbian". I know it sounds like a weird question but if you really think about it, I would like to know. What constitutes Gay or Lesbian.I could draw you a picture, but that would be against board policy. :D

No, in all seriousness...what do you mean? Are you sincerely asking "what constitutes (a) Gay or Lesbian (person)?"

[85Sooner]

I could draw you a picture, but that would be against board policy. :D

No, in all seriousness...what do you mean? Are you sincerely asking "what constitutes (a) Gay or Lesbian (person)?"

Yes. Lets say I fell off the turnip truck yesterday offering jobs.... OK leave that alone..

And a black person walked up. I could tell he was black.
Same for hispanic, asian, etc......
If a person came up with a cane or was is a wheelchair I could tell they are disabled.
If a woman or man walked up I could most likely tell which was which.

So my question is, what constitutes gay/lesbian and how do I know?

[LosAngelesSooner]

Yes. Lets say I fell off the turnip truck yesterday offering jobs.... OK leave that alone..

And a black person walked up. I could tell he was black.
Same for hispanic, asian, etc......
If a person came up with a cane or was is a wheelchair I could tell they are disabled.
If a woman or man walked up I could most likely tell which was which.

So my question is, what constitutes gay/lesbian and how do I know?Behavioral observation would be a good start. Mannerisms are a clue.

Tell me this, how would you tell if a person was HETEROsexual?

[LosAngelesSooner]

I'd also argue that there are MANY Hispanics/Latinos who you could not tell were such due to how Caucasian they appear.

And many women and men who are hard to distinguish. There are even some blacks and Asians who are hard to determine.

I guess a BETTER question from me would be: Why is it important that you can "tell" what their sexual orientation or race is?

[85Sooner]

Behavioral observation would be a good start. Mannerisms are a clue.

Tell me this, how would you tell if a person was HETEROsexual?

You can't

[85Sooner]

I'd also argue that there are MANY Hispanics/Latinos who you could not tell were such due to how Caucasian they appear.

And many women and men who are hard to distinguish. There are even some blacks and Asians who are hard to determine.

I guess a BETTER question from me would be: Why is it important that you can "tell" what their sexual orientation or race is?

Its a good question because of the issues surrounding the GLAD movement. Please don't try and turn it around. While I agree that there are some his/lats that would be difficult to tell and sometimes women or men can be close. pretty much all of us can tell if we are looking to discriminate. That said, back to my original question. How do I know someone is Gay/lesbian?

[LosAngelesSooner]

You need to answer my question first so I can answer yours. WHY does it matter if you can tell if a person is gay or straight?

[85Sooner]

You need to answer my question first so I can answer yours. WHY does it matter if you can tell if a person is gay or straight?

I asked first. The reason isn't important but goes to the heart of several issues presented by GLAD etc...... I put the question open to everyone. Any lack of an answer is actually going to prove my point.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Hispanic/Latino isn't based on appearance. One can be of pure French descent and be Latino. Or one can be of African descent and be Latino. Many Latinos are Caucasian.

Half the marriages in the U.S. with one spouse of "Latino" heritage has a non-Latino for the other spouse. What classification are their off-spring?

On the U.S. census, one is asked if he/she is Hispanic. Then it asks for racial classification and Hispanic/Latino is not a choice. Thus one can be Hispanic and White.

[85Sooner]

Hispanic/Latino isn't based on appearance. One can be of pure French descent and be Latino. Or one can be of African descent and be Latino. Many Latinos are Caucasian.

Half the marriages in the U.S. with one spouse of "Latino" heritage has a non-Latino for the other spouse. What classification are their off-spring?

On the U.S. census, one is asked if he/she is Hispanic. Then it asks for racial classification and Hispanic/Latino is not a choice. Thus one can be Hispanic and White.

Right,point taken. What I was trying to describe was..... If I were a person who wanted to discriminate or abuse based on ie: skin color, suname, disability, sex orientation etc....... How would I know I was dealing with a gay/lesbian person so I could presumebly discriminate?

[LosAngelesSooner]

Right,point taken. What I was trying to describe was..... If I were a person who wanted to discriminate or abuse based on ie: skin color, suname, disability, sex orientation etc....... How would I know I was dealing with a gay/lesbian person so I could presumebly discriminate?
Okay, behavioral observation is the first step. Then you can usually make a pretty good guess based on actual physical appearance in many cases. Also if you actually take the time to talk to someone or get to know them in any way, even through basic surface type of conversations, you can usually get a VERY clear idea of if they're gay or straight quite easily.

Those are the first three.

Now answer my question. Why does it matter if you can tell if another person is gay or not?

[LosAngelesSooner]

I asked first. The reason isn't important but goes to the heart of several issues presented by GLAD etc...... I put the question open to everyone. Any lack of an answer is actually going to prove my point.I disagree. The reason is PRE-IMMINENTLY important.

And what are the issues presented by GLAD which you speak of?

[85Sooner]

The fact is, that you cannot tell whether someone is gay/lesbian or straight by looking at them, unless , they tell you or you see them behave in a manner consistent with homosexual/hetrosexual "behavior".

The point being GLAD and other groups have their agenda in trying to create "rights" for people who live the Gay/Lesbian lifestyle. It is my educated opinion that people are not "gay" "lesbian" or 'hetrosexual". Every person, man or woman, regardless of race, has certain traits that are either masculine or feminine and all points in between and mixtures of traits , depending on the indiviual. Additionally there are different levels of attraction as much as most he-men would not want to admit. Kinsey


Side bar- for many years I was saturated for nearly a decade around the gay/lesbian "lifestyles" while preforming in the theater (probably LAS) has experience the same thing in LA in the Hollywood scene. My time started back in the 80's when the lifestyle was really starting to be noticed.

At that time many of us were exposed to the "lifestyles" because when we had wrap parties etc.. and they were always held at the gay bars and restaurants known for being hangouts for those in the "lifestyle". The clubs were a blast BTW and most folks were courtious to those who were not interested in being "picked up" by someone of the same sex.

I had many friends and we used to have discussions about the "lifestyle" and sodomy laws etc...... Remember this was during the Reagan years and the "moral majority" etc......

Back then, the beliefs espoused to me were that grown adults can do whatever they want in the privacy of their own homes and that "Government should stay out of their bedrooms" and that it was their "choice".

I totally agreed with this then and today. ( a caveat) I have been married for over a decade which means I don't go "clubing" at all anymore. That said, back then, people in those clubs and restaurants behaved in a far more sexually explicit manner than I had ever seen in the "straight" clubs or in your average restaurant. The things that I saw would not have been acceptable IMO in any average establishment by anyone. That was all fine by me because I chose to be in those environments to hang with friends.

Since then, the activists groups ie:GLAD have decided that not only should they have that "choice" but the rest of us should have to embrace and accept it. This has been done in the form of pride parades, legislation to prevent discrimination based on sexual preference, and now the marriage issue. They are the ones bringing Government into their bedrooms now contrary to previous opinions.

I know men who have had relaionships with men only to change years later and date women and vice versa. As a matter of fact the "lifestyle" was chic, and by my observation, still is the "in" thing to be in the theater communities . When I say that I am primarily referring to the teen and twenty something crowd. Mainly experimental behaviors I suspect.

Thus comes the crux of my arguement against gay/lesbian "marriage"

1. Marriage was and has been a judeo Christian ethic.
2. The progressive establishment has made up and exploited this notion of
Separation of Church and state and tried to implement it mainly with
regard to schools and education our children.
3. Thus if number 2 is acceptable then marriage should be out of the realm
of Government as well.
4. The positions held regarding those living within the Gay/Lesbian lifestyle
originally did not want government in their "bedrooms"
5. By asking for legislation to be passed, they are inviting the government
into their bedrooms figuritively.
6. The practice of sexuality or lack there of is a "behavior" not a trait.
As has been addressed verbally and verified empirically people can choose
whom they want to be involved with sexually regradless of genre.
7. Given that premise. people are not "Homosexual", "Hetrosexual" or "
"Bi sexual". People practice "Homosexuality", "Hetrosexuality" or "
"Bi sexuality" define based on wohm they choose to participate in sexual
activity with.
8. To give rights to a changable behavior is not good law and definitely not
good precedence. A black person cannot decide to change their color. A
disabled person cannot change their mind and become non-disabled.
9. A minorities ethnic status is verifiable, a disabled persons condition is verifiable. How is someone who is living the "lifestyle" verifiable? How can I identify them if I did want to discriminate against them. I argue that I could only know this by their words (which would not be any of my business) or by behavior and a behavior that reveal that would be inappropriate in business circles regardless of sexual preference.

Finally, That said, and I am sure many will disagree with my thesis. That those who live the "lifestyle" should be able to ( and are currently allowed) enter into contracts etc... and that decision should be left up to the states. The problems occur with the "pandoras" box theory. Now what about multiple spouses etc.....Lowering the age of consent...... etc....

The folks that "choose" to live the "lifestyle" have to deal with lots of issues I know and I wish them the best in everything they do.

[Frozen Sooner]

The argument that discrimination can only exist when there's a visible difference is ludicrous.

How could you tell someone was Jewish by looking at them?

[85Sooner]

The argument that discrimination can only exist when there's a visible difference is ludicrous.

How could you tell someone was Jewish by looking at them?

Are they wearing a star of david?

The need to have certain days for worship off.

Could be very identifiable.

[Curly Bill]

Nah man, they're wearing a Yarmulke, you know the skull cap thing.

[LosAngelesSooner]

85, you're so wrong in so many ways on so many of your assertions, but I'm completely drained and exhausted after my weekend so I just can't bring myself to address each and every instance. But your entire premise is predicated upon the assumption that being homosexual is a choice. It isn't.

We'll just agree to disagree.

[Frozen Sooner]

Are they wearing a star of david?

The need to have certain days for worship off.

Could be very identifiable.

Man, you know what's amazing?

Sometimes they don't wear Stars of David!

And I think that if you're going to go with the "certain days for worship off" as being "very identifiable" I'd think "****s another guy" would fall under the same category.

[Sooner_Havok]

Man, you know what's amazing?

Sometimes they don't wear Stars of David!

And I think that if you're going to go with the "certain days for worship off" as being "very identifiable" I'd think "****s another guy" would fall under the same category.

My dad has been going to Saturday mass, is he a Jew now?

[LosAngelesSooner]

Mike, his other post was full of other nonsensical things as well. When I see someone say things that are that far out (like RLIMC and Tuba) I just don't even try.

[85Sooner]

I guess its is non-sensical because you can't address the issue? I have plenty of friends in the "lifestyle" who understand it with no problem. Course their not of the activist nature.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I can easily address the issue.

And your friends who are gay live where? In Oklahoma?

[85Sooner]

OKlahoma, Conn. Seattle, NY and forgot, Texas

[LosAngelesSooner]

Okay.

And what would you define as "GLAD's agenda?"

[Turd_Ferguson]

Okay.

And what would you define as "GLAD's agenda?"butt seks?:confused:

[def_lazer_fc]

i've always noticed, and im not sure why its there, but everyone who takes a stance against one group of people never forget to point out that some of their closest friends are of the group they stand against. and they make sure to point that out pretty soon after they make their point heard. like in the same paragraph or at least the same post. not saying its positive or negative. just sayin....

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Just to add to this...I would like to state that is unequivocal bull**** that gay people can not get married in some form or another

[olevetonahill]

i've always noticed, and im not sure why its there, but everyone who takes a stance against one group of people never forget to point out that some of their closest friends are of the group they stand against. and they make sure to point that out pretty soon after they make their point heard. like in the same paragraph or at least the same post. not saying its positive or negative. just sayin....

Some of My best Friends are Heterosexual :hot:
Not that I have anything against that

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

That actually gets me thinking...you do realize that if this board can somehow get an Amish poster...we will have at least one of everything

[LosAngelesSooner]

Just to add to this...I would like to state that is unequivocal bull**** that gay people can not get married in some form or anotherAbsolutely! I wholeheartedly concur!

Gay people can't get married in almost all of America, which straight people can, and that's discrimination.

And even in "domestic partnerships" actually don't have the same legal rights as "married people" under the law, which is why it's a big ol' red herring.

[Frozen Sooner]

Uhm...no it's not. Gay people can't get married in almost all of America.

And even in "domestic partnerships" actually don't have the same legal rights as "married people" under the law, which is why it's a big ol' red herring.

Psst.

You're not disagreeing with him.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

heh

[LosAngelesSooner]

Goddamnit.

I failed again.

I need to quit reading the boards after 2:00am.

[85Sooner]

I picked steak over chicken. THATS DISCRIMINATION :)

[Chuck Bao]

Brilliant work there, 85Sooner. You obviously put a lot of thought into it. Your sources are probably impeccable given that you spent years with the theater crowd and you have gay friends.

Okay, to sum up your “thesis”,

• Gays are “that way” because it’s chic and fashionable.
• Gay is defined as the physical act of getting it on with someone of the same sex, otherwise called “lifestyle”.
• A cure is easy peasy: just stop doing it with someone of the same sex.
• Love and a life-long commitment between same-sex partners is….(wait, you didn’t mention anything about that).
• Marriage is sacred union between a man and a woman with the wedding vows taken before God and recognized by the state. (no need to mention the divorce rate here)
• If we open up marriage to gays, before long people will be allowed to marry their pets and then there’s polygamy with dogs and cats. And, when dogs and cats marry…that surely would be a sign of the end of times.
• Separation of church and state is a myth promulgated by the unrighteous. WE ARE A JUDEO-CHRISTIAN STATE GODDAMMIT!
• Gay people can do whatever they want to do in their bedroom. But, when they start making waves by asking for equal rights under the law, they are inviting everyone into their bedroom and become a voyeur into their vile and base sex acts. Well, that’s what they do.
• The gay agenda is focused on the schools and the education system. (I’m a little unclear on this point if the gay agenda is to make school children totally fabulous or a little less exposed to prejudice and bigotry or both.)
• Gay pride parades are just rubbing our faces in it. Do these people have any shame? Now, if it was “show us your tits” for some beads, that’d be awesome.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Just face it...Jesus hates you Chuck...that same Jesus that hung out with the diseased and the folks that society discarded

[Frozen Sooner]

Hey, man, those were lepers. Gays are just flat-out icky.

[Sooner_Havok]

Hey, man, those were lepers. Gays are just flat-out icky.

Actually, Gays are a very clean and industrious people.:D

[85Sooner]

Brilliant work there, 85Sooner. You obviously put a lot of thought into it. Your sources are probably impeccable given that you spent years with the theater crowd and you have gay friends.

Okay, to sum up your “thesis”,

• Gays are “that way” because it’s chic and fashionable.

NO< I SAID ALOT OF THE YOUNGER PEOPLE IN THE LIFE STYLE WERE IN IT BECAUSE IT WAS CHIC.

• Gay is defined as the physical act of getting it on with someone of the same sex, otherwise called “lifestyle”.

GAY MEANS HAPPY, and IS A WORD THAT HAS BEEN USED TO IDENTIFY PEOPLE WHO PRACTICE HOMOSEXUALITY
• A cure is easy peasy: just stop doing it with someone of the same sex.

CURES ARE FOR DISEASES. THIS IS NOT A DISEASE BUT RATHER A CONCIOUS DECISION MADE BY A PERSON.

• Love and a life-long commitment between same-sex partners is….(wait, you didn’t mention anything about that).

I SAID THAT THEY CAN ENTER INTO ANY CONTRACTS JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE *** PARTNERS, BENEFICIARIES ETC...

• Marriage is sacred union between a man and a woman with the wedding vows taken before God and recognized by the state. (no need to mention the divorce rate here)

WHAT DOES THE DIVORCE RATE HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING.

• If we open up marriage to gays, before long people will be allowed to marry their pets and then there’s polygamy with dogs and cats. And, when dogs and cats marry…that surely would be a sign of the end of times.

I LOVE HOW YOU ENTER ANIMALS TO MAKE YOUR POINT. I AT LEAST AM RESTRICTING MY THESIS TO HUMAN BEINGS.

• Separation of church and state is a myth promulgated by the unrighteous. WE ARE A JUDEO-CHRISTIAN STATE GODDAMMIT!

WE DO NOT HAVE A NATIONAL CHURCH ie: THE CHURCH OF ENGLAND AND EVERYONE IS ALLOWED TO PRACTICE THE RELIGION OF THEIR CHOOSING OR NONE AT ALL BUT THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON THE PREMISE THAT RIGHTS ARE GIVEN BY GOD. COURSE WE CAN GET RID OF RELIGION AND THAT WILL JUSTIFY REASONS TO GET RID OF OUR RIGHTS. I KEEP READING THE CONSTITUTION AND STILL HAVEN'T READ IT AND NO ONE SEEMS TO BE ABLE TO POINT IT OUT TO ME.

• Gay people can do whatever they want to do in their bedroom. But, when they start making waves by asking for equal rights under the law, they are inviting everyone into their bedroom and become a voyeur into their vile and base sex acts. Well, that’s what they do.

WHAT THEY DO IN THEIR BEDROOM IS THEIR OWN BUSINESS AND IS A HUMAN BEHAVIOR. IMO RIGHTS ARE NOT AND SHOULD NOT BE GRANTED FOR BEHAVIORS. IF I CAN'T TELL WHO THEY ARE WITHOUT GOING INTO THEIR BEDROOMS, THEN HOW CAN I IDENTIFY THEM IN ORDER TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST THEM? THAT WAS MY ORIGINAL QUESTION.


• The gay agenda is focused on the schools and the education system. (I’m a little unclear on this point if the gay agenda is to make school children totally fabulous or a little less exposed to prejudice and bigotry or both.)

SCHOOL (ESPECIALLY ELEMENTARY EDUCATION) SHOULD BE ABOUT READING WRITING AND ARITHMETIC NOT A INDOCTRINATION ON POLITICAL AGENDAS, AND MANY ORGANIZATIONS HAVE AS THEIR GOAL TO TEACH ALTERNATIVE LIFESTYLES TO CHILDREN WHO DON"T KNOW HOW TO TIE THEIR SHOES MUCH LESS EVALUATE SUCH COMPLICATED ISSUES.

• Gay pride parades are just rubbing our faces in it. Do these people have any shame? Now, if it was “show us your tits” for some beads, that’d be awesome.

SHOW US YOUR TITS IS ANOTHER BEHAVIOR THAT A PERSON CAN DISPLAY. HERE IN AUSTIN, WOMEN ARE ALLOWED TO GO TOPLESS AS WELL AS MEN. NO DISCRIMINATION THERE. THE PRIDE PARADES I HAVE SEEN VIA MEDIA ETC..... ARE A WAY TO DO JUST THAT AND THAT WOULD BE OKAY BUT THE BEHAVIORS AT TIMES BORDER ON X RATED BY SOME MEMBERS AND THAT IMO IS UNACCEPTABLE IN A PUBLIC FORUM.

Caps were used to distiguish the question from the response. Not to yell.

Does that help? Again, I am not trying to make anyone mad, I am just trying to have a thoughtful discussion. rather than waste my time reading WAYLT threads.

[85Sooner]

Hey, man, those were lepers. Gays are just flat-out icky.

LEPROSY is a disease are you saying that "GAYS" have a disease. THE DSM 2 actually said that.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Did you choose to be straight? Or is it a disease that was laid on you?

[85Sooner]

Did you choose to be straight? Or is it a disease that was laid on you?

Straight is a line or a term used to describe people who practice heterosexuality.

The choice of practice of a behavior is not a disease as far a I know.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Do you feel it would be fair to insist that left handed people practice a right handed lifestyle for their entire lives because of some "religious belief" that being left handed was a sign of allegiance with the Devil?

And in living a right handed lifestyle, would that make them NOT left handed by nature?

[LosAngelesSooner]

No response, 85?

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Goddamnit.

I failed again.

I need to quit reading the boards after 2:00am.

http://code-inside.de/blog/wp-content/uploads/image-thumb362.png

[85Sooner]

Do you feel it would be fair to insist that left handed people practice a right handed lifestyle for their entire lives because of some "religious belief" that being left handed was a sign of allegiance with the Devil?

And in living a right handed lifestyle, would that make them NOT left handed by nature? Unsubstantiated theory

NO Read Kinsey BTW waiting for your response.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Which response are you waiting for? I've been responding to all your questions. You haven't responded to mine at all. You keep pulling a Palin.

[85Sooner]

Which response are you waiting for? I've been responding to all your questions. You haven't responded to mine at all. You keep pulling a Palin.

!. Do you want me to post my private messages?

2. You havn't answered a dang thing , only questioned my theory.

3. Palin was ignored by the media because they had nothing on her. Where is Bidens press conf................................... oh they are non existant.

Your serve.

[Chuck Bao]

NO< I SAID ALOT OF THE YOUNGER PEOPLE IN THE LIFE STYLE WERE IN IT BECAUSE IT WAS CHIC.

Were in what? I highly doubt that. Either they are predisposed to that lifestyle or they aren’t. There is a wide range of predispositions. But, I don’t think that most people have that on / off, AC/DC switch.


GAY MEANS HAPPY, and IS A WORD THAT HAS BEEN USED TO IDENTIFY PEOPLE WHO PRACTICE HOMOSEXUALITY

That is not correct. There are many gay (homosexuals) who are celibate. Take a clue, one’s sexuality is innate part of a person. Ask your many gay friends.


CURES ARE FOR DISEASES. THIS IS NOT A DISEASE BUT RATHER A CONCIOUS DECISION MADE BY A PERSON.

I’m glad that you are saying that gay is not a disease. But, it is kind of funny that you persist in this notion that being gay is a conscious decision.


I SAID THAT THEY CAN ENTER INTO ANY CONTRACTS JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE *** PARTNERS, BENEFICIARIES ETC...

The sad fact is that we can’t. Many companies provide family health care coverage. If your colleagues get medical insurance coverage for their wife and kids, but your partner is denied because you don’t have a “marriage”, is that right?

How about this one: you cannot return to the land of your birth with your life partner because the US State Department does not recognize same-sex unions.


WHAT DOES THE DIVORCE RATE HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING.

Is that not the whole objection of gay marriage – the destroying the sanctity of marriage? Vows before God and state? No, I can appreciate that swearing an oath of fidelity and until death do you part under God’s name. But that really isn’t it. The marriage license is really a bureaucratic thing, like a driver’s license. What is wrong in granting driver’s licenses, sorry marriage licenses to the gay people? Allowing gays to drive is going to diminish your right to drive?


I LOVE HOW YOU ENTER ANIMALS TO MAKE YOUR POINT. I AT LEAST AM RESTRICTING MY THESIS TO HUMAN BEINGS.

It is equally ridiculous. You are the one who brought up Pandora’s Box and polygamy. It just highlights the fact that your argument is stupid.


WE DO NOT HAVE A NATIONAL CHURCH ie: THE CHURCH OF ENGLAND AND EVERYONE IS ALLOWED TO PRACTICE THE RELIGiON OF THEIR CHOOSING OR NON AT ALL BUT THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON THE PREMISE THAT RIGHTS ARE GIVEN BY GOD. COURSE WE CAN GET RID OF RELIGION AND THAT WILL JUSTIFY REASONS TO GET RID OF OUR RIGHTS. I KEEP READING THE CONSTITUTION AND STILL HAVEN'T READ IT AND NO ONE SEEMS TO BE ABLE TO POINT IT OUT TO ME.

That is a good question and the gay issue is a very side issue. Separation of church and state has an historic precedent, even though constitutionalists frequently debate this idea. e is no national religion and very strict Judeo-Christian beliefs cannot be called down as overriding our own culture and legal system. This fallacy is readily apparent in the fact that the adherents to a religious-based system could never agree anyway. And, if they did, we would be something close to Taliban and hanging prostitutes from cranes in a football stadium.


WHAT THEY DO IN THEIR BEDROOM IS THEIR OWN BUSINESS AND IS A HUMAN BEHAVIOR. IMO RIGHTS ARE NOT AND SHOULD NOT BE GRANTED FOR BEHAVIORS. IF I CAN'T TELL WHO THEY ARE WITHOUT GOING INTO THEIR BEDROOMS< THEN HOW CAN I IDENTIFY THEM IN ORDER TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST THEM? THAT WAS MY ORIGINAL QUESTION>.

Your original question was obvious and not very well thought out. If your intent was to discriminate against gays, how would you know who's gay? Like you are doing now. Tell them to keep their dirty business in the bedroom and no we are never going to recognize you. On the other hand, you could require Jews to wear Stars of David and gays to wear pink triangles. Where have we seen that before?


SCHOOL (ESPECIALLY ELEMENTARY EDUCATION SHOULD BE ABOUT READING WRITING AND ARITHMATIC NOT A DOCTRINATION ON POLITICAL AGENDAS AND MANY ORGANIZATIONS HAVE AS THEIR GOAL TO TEACH ALTERNATIVE LIFESTYLES TO CHILDREN WHO DON"T KNOW HOW TO TIE THEIR SHOES MUCH LESS EVALUATE SUCH COMPLICATED ISSUES.

Kids are smarter than you think. When they are reading Dick and Jane, would it bother you if Dick or Jane were either one is dark skinned? Would it matter if they had two mothers or two fathers? This is not about sex. It is not about imposing on the majority. It is about the reality that people face. On the other hand, Dick and Jane can always continue to be white and plain vanilla and leave the reality of life up to the parents. I don’t have kids, so I have no valid opinion on that.


SHOW US YOUR TITS IS ANOTHER BEHAVIOR THAT A PERSON CAN DISPLAY. HERE IS AUSTIN, WOMEN ARE ALLOWED TO GO TOPLESS AS WELL AS MEN. NO DISCRIMINATION THERE. THE PRIDE PARADES I HAVE SEEN VIA MEDIA ETC..... ARE A WAY TO DO JUST THAT AND THAT WOULD BE OKAY BUT THE BEHAVIORS AT TIMES BORDER ON X RATED BY SOME MEMBERS AND THAT IMO IS UNACCEPTABLE IN A PUBLIC FORUM.

I agree, I think


Does that hep? Again, I am not trying to make anyone mad, I am just trying to have a thoughtful discussion. rather than waste my time reading WAYLT threads.

Not mad. I just promised myself that I wouldn’t get drug into these types of threads. But, congrats you did do that. I do not want anyone to associate me with being gay. I’m much more than that and it really shouldn't be a big deal and certainly not an election issue with all of the other problems the US presently faces.

[85Sooner]

Were in what? I highly doubt that. Either they are predisposed to that lifestyle or they aren’t. There is a wide range of predispositions. But, I don’t think that most people have that on / off, AC/DC switch.

In working the adolescents professionally for over 5 years, I would have to disagree.

That is not correct. There are many gay (homosexuals) who are celibate. Take a clue, one’s sexuality is innate part of a person. Ask your many gay friends.

I have

I’m glad that you are saying that gay is not a disease. But, it is kind of funny that you persist in this notion that being gay is a conscious decision.

Whom you have sexual relations with is a conscious choice

The sad fact is that we can’t. Many companies provide family health care coverage. If your colleagues get medical insurance coverage for their wife and kids, but your partner is denied because you don’t have a “marriage”, is that right?

How do they know your "partner" is actually just that?

How about this one: you cannot return to the land of your birth with your life partner because the US State Department does not recognize same-sex unions.

See Above

Is that not the whole objection of gay marriage – the destroying the sanctity of marriage? Vows before God and state? No, I can appreciate that swearing an oath of fidelity and until death do you part under God’s name. But that really isn’t it. The marriage license is really a bureaucratic thing, like a driver’s license. What is wrong in granting driver’s licenses, sorry marriage licenses to the gay people? Allowing gays to drive is going to diminish your right to drive?

Again, see above

It is equally ridiculous. You are the one who brought up Pandora’s Box and polygamy. It just highlights the fact that your argument is stupid.

But in reality is right in line,ie: I'm sure the Mormons don't think it Stupid.



That is a good question and the gay issue is a very side issue. Separation of church and state has an historic precedent, even though constitutionalists frequently debate this idea. e is no national religion and very strict Judeo-Christian beliefs cannot be called down as overriding our own culture and legal system. This fallacy is readily apparent in the fact that the adherents to a religious-based system could never agree anyway. And, if they did, we would be something close to Taliban and hanging prostitutes from cranes in a football stadium.

It wasn't a big issue until the 60's when the communists were flushed out and the ones who weren't started alot of the very groups that we are talking about.

Your original question was obvious and not very well thought out. If your intent was to discriminate against gays, how would you know who's gay? Like you are doing now. Tell them to keep their dirty business in the bedroom and no we are never going to recognize you. On the other hand, you could require Jews to wear Stars of David and gays to wear pink triangles. Where have we seen that before?

" the keep the gov out of my bedroom" was their argument Not mine, if you read it. Again, its a behavior not a trait. Blacks can't decide to show up and not be black. The groups who are regularly discriminated against have inherent and empirical traits that are obvious.

Kids are smarter than you think. When they are reading Dick and Jane, would it bother you if Dick or Jane were either one is dark skinned? Would it matter if they had two mothers or two fathers? This is not about sex. It is not about imposing on the majority. It is about the reality that people face. On the other hand, Dick and Jane can always continue to be white and plain vanilla and leave the reality of life up to the parents. I don’t have kids, so I have no valid opinion on that.

In some ways "Kids are smarter than you think" they do pick up things quickly but their reasoning and ability for critical thought are not developed until later and I think you'll agree that these issues are complicated and require a good deal of critical thinking.


I agree, I think



Not mad. I just promised myself that I wouldn’t get drug into these types of threads. But, congrats you did do that. I do not want anyone to associate me with being gay. I’m much more than that and it really shouldn't be a big deal and certainly not an election issue with all of the other problems the US presently faces.

If we (meaning all of us) don't have these discussions in a civil and nonthreatening manner, then how will we ever get through them. Just like the race issue, I never see a good discussion where sometimes itchy questions are raised and addressed. Fortunately I have guys at work that I can have those conversations with. IMO just saying someone is predispositioned to have sex with members of the same chromosome pattern does not make it so and does not address any of the other surrounding issues.

[85Sooner]

Which response are you waiting for? I've been responding to all your questions. You haven't responded to mine at all. You keep pulling a Biden.


fixed ;)
From CBS News' Ryan Corsaro:

(COLORADO SPRINGS, COLO.) - It might be surprising to some to learn that Sarah Palin is now talking to her national press corps more often than Joe Biden.

While the once silent Palin has taken questions from reporters that travel with her three times in the last week, Biden has not offered the same type of access to reporters who cover his every move on the campaign trail in almost two months.

As for comments that Biden made last weekend in Seattle about Obama facing an "international, generated crisis" in his first six months, Biden has said nothing more on the matter.

[Chuck Bao]

If we (meaning all of us) don't have these discussions in a civil and nonthreatening manner, then how will we ever get through them. Just like the race issue, I never see a good discussion where sometimes itchy questions are raised and addressed. Fortunately I have guys at work that I can have those conversations with. IMO just saying someone is predispositioned to have sex with members of the same chromosome pattern does not make it so and does not address any of the other surrounding issues.

Clearly, you have no clue as to what you are saying. Maybe, your guys are work are equally clueless and you are better off showing your ignorance to them.

[85Sooner]

Clearly, you have no clue as to what you are saying. Maybe, your guys are work are equally clueless and you are better off showing your ignorance to them.

Aren't you mister high and mighty. Don't you just love yourself? I bet you enjoy posing in front to the mirror telling yourself how great you are. Ignorance is usually brought up by someone because of their inability to form a cohesive thought outside of the Pop culture. Off you go little one

[LosAngelesSooner]

Seriously 85, I was gonna take the time to respond to the e-mail today, but the fact that you're actually taking a stance that being gay is a "behavior" and not a "trait," AKA "a choice" not the way you're born, shows me that I could never explain my positions on anything to you.

It's a ludicrous idea that people CHOOSE to be gay. Idiotic. Illogical. Unfounded. Baseless.

People are BORN gay or straight. SOME conditions may exacerbate the degree to which they show it off or embrace it (overly dominant parents, society oppressing you, religion, etc) but it doesn't change who the person is inside. Period. And to even TRY to take the position that a person "may be gay inside, but can choose not to engage in being gay" is not only stupid, it's offensive. And it sounds like the rationalization a closeted gay person would make who's living in a society that frowns on it and is trying to "battle the urges."

Stupid.

Gay people can't help being gay anymore than black people can help being black.

[LosAngelesSooner]

fixed ;)
From CBS News' Ryan Corsaro:

(COLORADO SPRINGS, COLO.) - It might be surprising to some to learn that Sarah Palin is now talking to her national press corps more often than Joe Biden.

While the once silent Palin has taken questions from reporters that travel with her three times in the last week, Biden has not offered the same type of access to reporters who cover his every move on the campaign trail in almost two months.

As for comments that Biden made last weekend in Seattle about Obama facing an "international, generated crisis" in his first six months, Biden has said nothing more on the matter.This is just dumb.

We KNOW who Biden is. He's spent his life giving press conferences and speaking to the press (often to his own detriment).

We still don't know who Palin is. And she keeps hiding. Though the more that comes out about her, the less likable and CERTAINLY the less trustworthy she appears to be. Scandal after scandal and she's not even in office yet. She's an embarrasment.

[LosAngelesSooner]

By the way, this:

NO Read Kinsey BTW waiting for your response.
Is not an answer to this:

Do you feel it would be fair to insist that left handed people practice a right handed lifestyle for their entire lives because of some "religious belief" that being left handed was a sign of allegiance with the Devil?

And in living a right handed lifestyle, would that make them NOT left handed by nature?
Please try again.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I am just saying this as my opinion but...if gay is a CHOICE...then so is being straight.

[85Sooner]

Seriously 85, I was gonna take the time to respond to the e-mail today, but the fact that you're actually taking a stance that being gay is a "behavior" and not a "trait," AKA "a choice" not the way you're born, shows me that I could never explain my positions on anything to you.

It's a ludicrous idea that people CHOOSE to be gay. Idiotic. Illogical. Unfounded. Baseless.

People are BORN gay or straight. SOME conditions may exacerbate the degree to which they show it off or embrace it (overly dominant parents, society oppressing you, religion, etc) but it doesn't change who the person is inside. Period. And to even TRY to take the position that a person "may be gay inside, but can choose not to engage in being gay" is not only stupid, it's offensive. And it sounds like the rationalization a closeted gay person would make who's living in a society that frowns on it and is trying to "battle the urges."

Stupid.

Gay people can't help being gay anymore than black people can help being black.

And how many years did you spend studying animal husbandry, human sexuality, human biology. Sorry LA you are scientifically wrong.

[85Sooner]

This is just dumb.

We KNOW who Biden is. He's spent his life giving press conferences and speaking to the press (often to his own detriment).

We still don't know who Palin is. And she keeps hiding. Though the more that comes out about her, the less likable and CERTAINLY the less trustworthy she appears to be. Scandal after scandal and she's not even in office yet. She's an embarrasment.


Well, here is a start.
Question: What is America 's first line of missile interceptor defense
that protects the entire United States ?

Answer: 49th Missile Defense Battalion of Alaska National Guard.


Question: What is the ONLY National Guard unit on permanent active duty?

Answer: 49th Missile Defense Battalion of Alaska National Guard

Question: Who is the Commander in Chief of the 49th Missile Defense Battalion of Alaska National Guard?

Answer: Governor Sarah Palin, Alaska

Question: What U.S.
governor is routinely briefed on highly classified
military issues, homeland security, and counter terrorism?

Answer: Governor Sarah Palin, Alaska


Question: What U.S.
governor has a higher classified security rating than either candidate of the Democrat Party?

Answer: Governor Sarah Palin, Alaska

According to the Washington Post, she first met with McCain in February, but nobody ever found out. This is a woman used to keeping secrets.

She can be entrusted with our national security,

because
she already is.

[shaun4411]

But to view their desire to be treated equally as "insistence of the Gay and Lesbian lifestyle" is an inherently bigoted interpretation of their basic human desire. It's Constitutionally their right to be treated equally. Currently there are several unconstitutional amendments on State Constitutions banning their right.

As a Republican, I'm opposed to government ever discriminating or litigating the bedroom.

they can get civil unions, which affords all the same rights.

[85Sooner]

As a Republican, I'm opposed to government ever discriminating or litigating the bedroom.

But again, you willing to grant rights based on the bedroom?

[shaun4411]

Seriously 85, I was gonna take the time to respond to the e-mail today, but the fact that you're actually taking a stance that being gay is a "behavior" and not a "trait," AKA "a choice" not the way you're born, shows me that I could never explain my positions on anything to you.

It's a ludicrous idea that people CHOOSE to be gay. Idiotic. Illogical. Unfounded. Baseless.

People are BORN gay or straight. SOME conditions may exacerbate the degree to which they show it off or embrace it (overly dominant parents, society oppressing you, religion, etc) but it doesn't change who the person is inside. Period. And to even TRY to take the position that a person "may be gay inside, but can choose not to engage in being gay" is not only stupid, it's offensive. And it sounds like the rationalization a closeted gay person would make who's living in a society that frowns on it and is trying to "battle the urges."

Stupid.

Gay people can't help being gay anymore than black people can help being black.

all human sexuality is behavior. heterosexuality is simply normal behavior. there are varying levels of deviance that is considered behavior. i.e. promiscuity, beastality, pedophalia (and all sorts of phalias), monogamy, asexual, bisexual, homosexual, butt sex, mouth sex, hand sex. its all behavior.

[Harry Beanbag]

Question: What U.S.
governor has a higher classified security rating than either candidate of the Democrat Party?

Answer: Governor Sarah Palin, Alaska



Barack wouldn't even qualify for the security clearance I held in the Navy, but if/when elected, there will be no choice but to rubber stamp it all the way to the top.

[LosAngelesSooner]

And how many years did you spend studying animal husbandry, human sexuality, human biology. Sorry LA you are scientifically wrong.Really? You have scientific proof that being gay is a choice?

Would you please share it with us and enlighten me?

[LosAngelesSooner]

Well, here is a start.
Question: What is America 's first line of missile interceptor defense
that protects the entire United States ?

Answer: 49th Missile Defense Battalion of Alaska National Guard.


Question: What is the ONLY National Guard unit on permanent active duty?

Answer: 49th Missile Defense Battalion of Alaska National Guard

Question: Who is the Commander in Chief of the 49th Missile Defense Battalion of Alaska National Guard?

Answer: Governor Sarah Palin, Alaska

Question: What U.S.
governor is routinely briefed on highly classified
military issues, homeland security, and counter terrorism?

Answer: Governor Sarah Palin, Alaska


Question: What U.S.
governor has a higher classified security rating than either candidate of the Democrat Party?

Answer: Governor Sarah Palin, Alaska

According to the Washington Post, she first met with McCain in February, but nobody ever found out. This is a woman used to keeping secrets.

She can be entrusted with our national security,

because
she already is.
GUFFAW!!!!

Sarah Palin is a HORRIBLE politician. She has NO, repeat NO foreign policy experience. She isn't in command of SQUAT and to claim her C&C of the National Guard as preparedness for the Presidency is insulting to people with intelligence.

Sarah Palin represents ALL that is wrong with the Republican Party right now and politicians like her are why we're losing the Senate, HofR and possibly the White House. Mark my words, if McCain loses, it'll be because of her and how she lost McCain the Swing States and Moderates.

PERIOD.


they can get civil unions, which affords all the same rights.No. It doesn't. if Civil Unions afforded the same rights, this wouldn't be as much of an issue as it is. Do a little research. Civil Unions do NOT have the same rights as Marriages under the law.

That's one of the big problems here.

[LosAngelesSooner]

But again, you willing to grant rights based on the Constitution?FIXED.

ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL.

For you to legislate IN the bedroom is not only un-Constitutional, it's anti-Republican.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Barack wouldn't even qualify for the security clearance I held in the Navy, but if/when elected, there will be no choice but to rubber stamp it all the way to the top.And Biff Palin, Sarah's husband, wouldn't even be allowed ANY clearance, including being allowed in the White House and in sensitive areas due to his close ties with sesessionists and terrorists.

[Harry Beanbag]

And Biff Palin, Sarah's husband, wouldn't even be allowed ANY clearance, including being allowed in the White House and in sensitive areas due to his close ties with sesessionists and terrorists.


So? He's not running for office.

[Sooner_Havok]

So? He's not running for office.

I think the question should be, could Sarah herself get clearance? What with her ties to Todd Palin,Joe Vogler, and the rest of the AIP.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I think the question should be, could Sarah herself get clearance? What with her ties to Todd Palin,Joe Vogler, and the rest of the AIP.
The sad fact is, at this point, she'd have trouble, but they'd force it through out of necessity.

She's a nightmare.