Duke on running the ball

[CaliBornSoonerBred]

Duke Robinson wants to run the ball.

Better. With attitude.

And more.

Oklahoma’s All-American guard finds himself at odds with the Sooners’ struggles in the run game — and what he believes is a lack of commitment to rushing the football.

"We ain’t running it enough,” a clearly frustrated Robinson said this week.

"We just need to run it more often. That’s about it.”

Robinson said a strong running game comes through continued banging on defenses, allowing a powerful line like OU’s to wear down enemy fronts by force.

This Sooner team prefers to pass, in turn passing on the run.

And when they do run, the Sooners haven’t run all that well.

DeMarco Murray, a preseason pick for All-Big 12, hasn’t regained the form that made him a threat to go the distance at any time, before a late-2007 knee injury required surgery.

"It’s not going as I thought it would be,” said Murray, who has appeared tentative.

OU offensive coordinator Kevin Wilson notices it, too. He wonders if there’s something — mental or physical — holding Murray back.

"Some guys come back as good,” Wilson said. "But are they right away? Does it take time? Sometimes those things take a year to get fully back.

"Will he be back to as good or better? I don’t know. I don’t think anybody knows.”

Chris Brown has been solid, yet doesn’t fit the game-breaker mold.

While the Sooners rank fifth in the Big 12 in rushing yards per game at 157.2, their 3.7 per carry average is tied for 10th.

And lately, particularly in games against ranked teams with solid defenses — TCU and Texas — OU has not only sputtered on the ground, it’s surrendered somewhat and basically abandoned efforts.

"I just think running takes more to get into rhythm with the linemen and the running backs, getting a feel for it,” Murray said.

Of course, all this might seem like nit-picking on an offense that scored 35 points in those games and averages 47.2 a game. Sam Bradford and the receivers have picked up the slack.

Still, Bradford prefers balance, too, and realizes the problems it can create for defenses trying to contend with both aspects when going good.

"If you had told me before the season that this would be our problem on offense, I would have been a little puzzled, too,” Bradford said.

And what about when conditions — short yardage; rain, snow or heavy wind; clock management — call for effective running?

The Sooners ran but 26 times against the Longhorns, for 48 yards. And through 12 possessions, they never called running plays more than twice in a row.

Seven of the possessions didn’t feature back-to-back runs.

The Sooners emphasized the running game in practice earlier this week.

And they emphasized the running mentality.

"Running is an attitude,” Robinson said. "If you’re trying to get away from running the ball all the time, the more you get into passing and picking up blitzes and stuff, you kind of get out of that running mentality.

"We need to get it back.”

http://newsok.com/ou-football-sooners-seek-answers-to-running-game-woes/article/3311802

I know similiar stories have been posted but I haven't seen this one yet.

Seems like even our O-line is not happy with the way we're running the ball either. Is this a good thing or a bad sign if our supposed "best O-line in the country" is disgruntled.

[RacerX]

I wonder if Duke starts Saturday?

[Johnny Utah]

Seems like even our O-line is not happy with the way we're running the ball either. Is this a good thing or a bad sign if our supposed "best O-line in the country" is disgruntled.

I think that it's a good thing that they recognize and publically admit that the run game is not up to par. Hopefully the coaches will implement a more varied running offense going forward.

[NormanPride]

UT-Chatt: 38 passes, 46 rushes
Cincy: 38 passes, 44 rushes
Washington: 27 passes, 47 rushes
TCU: 34 passes, 36 rushes
Baylor: 34 passes, 58 rushes
Texas: 41 passes, 26 rushes

I think this is a case of the recent sticking in the mind more. We gave up on the run at Texas because it wasn't working, and the pass was. The run wasn't working at Texas because it was the worst game our OLine played that year. Wilson came out recently and said it was the lowest grade the OLine got this year, and by far the most mistakes. Our OLine blocked like trash against Texas, and it should **** them off that they didn't execute, not that the play calling wasn't what they liked.

[Sooner04]

I wonder if Duke starts Saturday?
I dunno, but he better buckle up for a bumpy ride.

[boomermagic]

Duke Robinson wants to run the ball.

Better. With attitude.

And more.

Oklahoma’s All-American guard finds himself at odds with the Sooners’ struggles in the run game — and what he believes is a lack of commitment to rushing the football.

"We ain’t running it enough,” a clearly frustrated Robinson said this week.

"We just need to run it more often. That’s about it.”

Robinson said a strong running game comes through continued banging on defenses, allowing a powerful line like OU’s to wear down enemy fronts by force.

This Sooner team prefers to pass, in turn passing on the run.

And when they do run, the Sooners haven’t run all that well.

DeMarco Murray, a preseason pick for All-Big 12, hasn’t regained the form that made him a threat to go the distance at any time, before a late-2007 knee injury required surgery.

"It’s not going as I thought it would be,” said Murray, who has appeared tentative.

OU offensive coordinator Kevin Wilson notices it, too. He wonders if there’s something — mental or physical — holding Murray back.

"Some guys come back as good,” Wilson said. "But are they right away? Does it take time? Sometimes those things take a year to get fully back.

"Will he be back to as good or better? I don’t know. I don’t think anybody knows.”

Chris Brown has been solid, yet doesn’t fit the game-breaker mold.

While the Sooners rank fifth in the Big 12 in rushing yards per game at 157.2, their 3.7 per carry average is tied for 10th.

And lately, particularly in games against ranked teams with solid defenses — TCU and Texas — OU has not only sputtered on the ground, it’s surrendered somewhat and basically abandoned efforts.

"I just think running takes more to get into rhythm with the linemen and the running backs, getting a feel for it,” Murray said.

Of course, all this might seem like nit-picking on an offense that scored 35 points in those games and averages 47.2 a game. Sam Bradford and the receivers have picked up the slack.

Still, Bradford prefers balance, too, and realizes the problems it can create for defenses trying to contend with both aspects when going good.

"If you had told me before the season that this would be our problem on offense, I would have been a little puzzled, too,” Bradford said.

And what about when conditions — short yardage; rain, snow or heavy wind; clock management — call for effective running?

The Sooners ran but 26 times against the Longhorns, for 48 yards. And through 12 possessions, they never called running plays more than twice in a row.

Seven of the possessions didn’t feature back-to-back runs.

The Sooners emphasized the running game in practice earlier this week.

And they emphasized the running mentality.

"Running is an attitude,” Robinson said. "If you’re trying to get away from running the ball all the time, the more you get into passing and picking up blitzes and stuff, you kind of get out of that running mentality.

"We need to get it back.”

http://newsok.com/ou-football-sooners-seek-answers-to-running-game-woes/article/3311802

I know similiar stories have been posted but I haven't seen this one yet.

Seems like even our O-line is not happy with the way we're running the ball either. Is this a good thing or a bad sign if our supposed "best O-line in the country" is disgruntled.

Thanks, I like Duke's attitude and I think he is correct..

[Collier11]

whats wrong with a player voicing frustration and thinking that running the ball is the way to win games...its been proven that running the ball and D will win championships

[Widescreen]

We're never going to get our running game going with the combination of handing the ball off 7 yards behind the line of scrimmage, our OL not getting to the 2nd level and the LB simply running to fill whatever gap may exist.

[JLEW1818]

We're never going to get our running game going with the combination of handing the ball off 7 yards behind the line of scrimmage, our OL not getting to the 2nd level and the LB simply running to fill whatever gap may exist.

You know who it reminds me of? CLEMSON !

[C&CDean]

Sounds to me like Duke is being a whiney bitch and needs to run some steps.

[Sasakwa]

Robinson said a strong running game comes through continued banging on defenses, allowing a powerful line like OU’s to wear down enemy fronts by force.

This is it. Sometimes you have to be willing to live with 3-4 yards gains in the 1st-3rd quarter to get the homeruns in the 4th.

[MojoRisen]

Look- we can score 35 points in a half off play action and passing... I would love to see us hitting on all cylinders in the run and pass offense. Clearly though we have someone who can throw the ball around and hitting homeruns is what we have been doing. Demarco if he snaps out of it should get more balls in the flats etc and the slot.

If we commit to running the ball - I hope we are ready to run it down peoples throats and not get ourselves in a close game with Kansas- who can stuff the run pretty well.

[CaliBornSoonerBred]

This was brought up in another thread but I believe one of the answers to the run game issues will be mis-directions, stretch plays, and tosses. If teams are sitting and waiting to blitz the middle against the run, then we are done. This has been happening since the TCU game. We have tremendous speed on the both sides of the ball so why don't we utilize it in the running game? Get the ball to the outside and let the backs do what they do.

[Collier11]

get the speed guys on the edge, I have never understood why we have DM running up the middle every time he touches the ball

[JLEW1818]

get the speed guys on the edge, I have never understood why we have DM running up the middle every time he touches the ball

I agree , but he does not look the same.

[CaliBornSoonerBred]

get the speed guys on the edge, I have never understood why we have DM running up the middle every time he touches the ball

Just because he put on 15lbs of muscle doesn't mean we go away from what made him so spectacular last year. Running DM up the middle is good a few times per drive but let him get into space. That goes for Madu and Brown as well. I'm also thinking getting Brown 15-20 touches a game isn't a bad idea either. Sets with Brown/Murray and Madu/Murray could give any D a few fits and open up the play book a little bit with mis-direction and reverses, etc. How in the HELL do we see this and our stubborn coaching staff can't change their ways and make adjustments?!

[Jason White's Third Knee]

Do we block linebackers in our blocking scheme? That's all I want to know.

[toast]

Duke should take some of his frustrations out on opposing lineman.

[CaliBornSoonerBred]

Do we block linebackers in our blocking scheme? That's all I want to know.

Most of the time it is a zone blocking scheme where we block who ever is in front of us. Our linemen are not getting to the second level to open lanes up downfield for the backs. Look at the Denver Broncos running game of a few years back, that's how you block in the zone run game.

[Nof49 Sooner]

No question the running game has become an after thought in this no-huddle offense. I know Murray has been dinged up, but in RRS game we didn't even attempt to get creative with the running game. We don't need to run the no-huddle all game, especially when most of the time we get up to line and sit there waiting to get the play from the sidelines.

I'm of the opinion offensive lines like to cram it down the other team's throat. They play better when they're not trying to pass protect all freakin' game. If Robinson wants to run the ball, I say feed it to whoever wants it most.

[Collier11]

Most of the time it is a zone blocking scheme where we block who ever is in front of us. Our linemen are not getting to the second level to open lanes up downfield for the backs. Look at the Denver Broncos running game of a few years back, that's how you block in the zone run game.

Thats the problem, with zone blocking dont we need o-lineman that are about 30lbs lighter across the board

[NormanPride]

Denver Broncos (possibly the best zone blocking team out there) OL size:

Clady, Ryan - T - 6'6" 325lbs
Hamilton, Ben - G/C - 6'4" 290lbs
Harris, Ryan - T - 6'5" 300lbs
Kuper, Chris - G - 6'4" 302lbs
Lichtensteiger, Kory - C - 6'3" 295lbs
Pears, Erik - T - 6'8" 305lbs
Polumbus, Tyler - T - 6'8" 310lbs


Oklahoma Sooners OL size:

Braxton, Brandonn - T - 6'6" 304lbs (share)
Cooper, Jon - C - 6'3" 290lbs
Loadholt, Phil - T - 6'8" 337lbs
Robinson, Duke - G - 6'5" 335lbs
Simmons, Brian - G - 6'5" 304lbs (second string)
Walker, Brandon - G - 6'3" 284lbs
Williams, Trent - T - 6'5" 308lbs (share)

[CaliBornSoonerBred]

Thats the problem, with zone blocking dont we need o-lineman that are about 30lbs lighter across the board


And that's the exact reason why we get worked over when we see a speed defense, i.e. WV and texass

[picasso]

anybody remember the pitch sweep? we ran it junior high with great success.

and, the neat part is you can run it right or left!

[KaleoHolley]

It's obvious that we have one running back that is no threat whatsoever to break a tackle and bust big runs, (Demarco) another running back who doesn't have the speed to bust a big run, but at least doesn't stop after contact like (Demarco) in Chris Brown. So I think the real problem is we don't have a running back worth giving the ball too. When we are moving the ball down the field with passing, why would change it. Texas flat out beat us, no excuses from me. What I do have a problem with is, The no huddle hurry up worked so well the 1st drive of the game, Then the 2nd drive we went I-Formation got nothing then had to punt, maybe Duke needs to watch some film we did try the running game. It flat out stunk.

[BoulderSooner79]

The flaw in Duke's logic is that just running more doesn't help if you don't move the sticks. You only get to pound on the D line 3 times per possession if you just run for the sake of running. We tried that against TCU and Cinci and the offense just stalled. As NormanPride pointed out, we've run more than passed in every game except UT. And with the exception of Washington, the running game has not been effective. Given the athletes we have, there is something fundamentally wrong with the scheme. Where are the pitches? The delays and draws? The trap play? The counter play? Seems we just zone block and try the middle.

[Whet]

Fire the line coach! :D

[picasso]

certainly no imagination in the running game.

[KaleoHolley]

I am not a football coach my any means, but the reason our running game isn't any good besides not having a running back that is worthy of feeding the ball, is we have an O-line that has ZERO speed and a lighter, faster D-line is going to give them fits. So i don't see where a toss or sweep would help anything, if those guys have to pull, they won't get there and it will be a 4 yard loss every play. IF you watch the game, the only reason our middle screen, jailbreak screen plays to Manny and Broyles are working is because Duke has been illegally downfield.

[BoulderSooner79]

TT lineman are bigger and slower than ours and I see them get a back into the secondary w/o being touched all the time. If nothing else works, a delay when the other team is pass rushing should. Also, I think it is legal for lineman to be downfield on a pass if the pass is caught behind the line of scrimmage.

[KaleoHolley]

Yeah, im not sure on the rules, A coach friend of mine was saying we got away with it about 4 times during the OU TEXAS game. I agree with you about TT, They also have a mean shovel pass that i use to love when we ran with Q. Do you think there Splits in the O-line have anything to do with them being able to run the ball better with a bigger line?

[C&CDean]

A bunch of you are the same knuckleheads who bitched when we were running the ball 40 times a game.

Duke needs to STFU and hit somebody in the mouth. You armchair QBs need to STFU and let Bob/Kevin run the offense. I'm very confident they are much better qualified than any of you boneheads when it comes to calling the offense.

We lost a ****ing game. To Texas. They beat our "all world line" like a cheap drum all day. Instead of crying about it, Duke needs to be foaming at the mouth thinking about how many KU D-linemen he's going to eat for lunch.

[Echoes]

Good posts by everyone. This is a good thread, I like to see the criticism come with some constructive ideas, not just everyone bashing players.

Anyways, I am not usually one to hop on and bash players or coaches or anything like that. However, something different needs to be done. Have we shown any improvement in our running game this season? Not really. What Kaleo said is true, we are to big to pull our linemen for sweeps. They just can't do it. However, that doesn't mean all creativeness in a running game is gone... There are still tons of misdirection plays we can run that we simply don't. Who's fault is it? I wouldn't entirely blame Wilson. He is a good coach and a good coordinator. I don't know if Bob has the reigns on him or the other coaches he confers with disagree with his ideas or what the problem is, but we need to get them fixed.




To me, this was certainly the best shot we had in quite awhile to win the championship. A solid line on both sides of the ball, emerging recievers and proven running backs with a senior linebacker leading us on d and a heisman trophy candidate on o looked good to me. Right now, anything less then a 4 ranking and either the bcs championship or the first bowl game with a good opponent (i.e. not byu, utah, or boise) would be a dissapointment. Hopefully we step up from now on.

[SoonersEnFuego]

I got happy there for a second when I read the thread title.

They should let Duke run the ball --Himself!
That would be one way to make sure we pound it out on the ground. Refrigerator Perry? No, no, Refrigerator Duke!

For real though, I don't see as many runs off tackle as I do inside. Bounce it out if Murray is in the game.

[NormanPride]

A bunch of you are the same knuckleheads who bitched when we were running the ball 40 times a game.

Duke needs to STFU and hit somebody in the mouth. You armchair QBs need to STFU and let Bob/Kevin run the offense. I'm very confident they are much better qualified than any of you boneheads when it comes to calling the offense.

We lost a ****ing game. To Texas. They beat our "all world line" like a cheap drum all day. Instead of crying about it, Duke needs to be foaming at the mouth thinking about how many KU D-linemen he's going to eat for lunch.

Yup.

[aurorasooner]

I like to see the criticism come with some constructive ideas, not just everyone bashing players.
Or just a poster's meaningless disagreement to a previous post w/o any explanation or constructive ideas of their own.
However, something different needs to be done. Have we shown any improvement in our running game this season? Not really. Totally agree. Unless our staff admits we have a problem with the running game against quality defenses with quality DCs and changes things up or adds 1 or 2 new wrinkles to the run game each week (and actually uses them), when we face another quality D either in one of the remaining conference games or in the bowl game, or if (knock-on-wood he doesn't) Sam has an off-game like Iowa State last year, we have nothing to fall back on.
I don't particularly know what the problem with the running game is, too large of an OL to run-block effectively, our backs not running as hard as they should, or if our running sets/plays w/o any misdirection whatsoever, are just way too simple and easily recognized by a quality well-coached defense, but I suspect the last of the 3. Same exact thing with that soft-zone pass coverage where we tackle the underneath receiver after the catch and are never able to make a play on the ball in-front of the receiver. We're still in the hunt for the BCS bowl championship game even if we don't win the Big 12 south & Texas goes to KC, but we have to play well on both sides of the ball as we need style points and we have no room for error especially w/o RR. We can't be out-coached/out-played against KU/Tech/at OSU and can't afford to go to College Station, the Rotten Apple, or Nebraska (in Norman) and lay an egg.

[CaliBornSoonerBred]

A bunch of you are the same knuckleheads who bitched when we were running the ball 40 times a game.

Duke needs to STFU and hit somebody in the mouth. You armchair QBs need to STFU and let Bob/Kevin run the offense. I'm very confident they are much better qualified than any of you boneheads when it comes to calling the offense.

We lost a ****ing game. To Texas. They beat our "all world line" like a cheap drum all day. Instead of crying about it, Duke needs to be foaming at the mouth thinking about how many KU D-linemen he's going to eat for lunch.


I completely agree about the attitude the line needs to have. The entire team, not just the D, has not had that swagger and attitude since Mike left. Could it just be a change in players or mentality of the team? When I saw the pregame of the Washington game where the team was all jacked up talking to the UW players I thought some of the swagger returned but as the O line received their lowest grade of the season against texass, we see that's wrong. I hate to say it but did our line buy into all the pre season hype about the best in the country? They haven't played like it all year. Duke needs to get his sh!t together as well as the rest of the line and start playing focused, smash mouth football. Even if we pass 75% and run 25%, on that 25% go out and look for someone to pancake block EVERY PLAY. I'm sick of the O line playing so soft!

The only place I disagree with Dean is the staff. Bob and Kevin are best suited to run the offense but the entire staff has been slow to make in-game adjustments and we have paid severely in those games. When RR went down and Crow blew the first coverage and looked lost, why couldn't they have adjusted the coverage to give him a little help and trust one of the corners one on one? By no means am I a coach and just have 26 years of being a devoted fan and 11 years of playing experience to go on but it seems the staff gets stubborn at times and does not want to adjust. But Bob did say in the press conference when asked about the issues being player or coach related that it falls on both. A coach can only put you in the right position, the players have to make the plays. Right now we do not have any playmakers on a game to game basis on the defensive side of the ball. Guys step up in different games but other than RR, no one has been that consistent.

After this rant, a side note: Has anyone figured out where Lendy Holmes has gone this year and why Nic Harris isn't the blitzing beast he was last year?

[BoulderSooner79]

Sure it all comes down to what Bob and his staff decide to do and we are all going to watch and cheer (or jeer). But I participate in this board to talk X's and O's and I wish there were more of that compared to homer venting when we lose. So when there is a thread discussing tactics and/or strategy, I'm not going to STFU unless the moderator tells me to. It's part of the whole experience of being a fan of the game.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Dear Duke,

Shut yer facehole and let your play do the talking.

Sincerely,

Everybody

[JLEW1818]

Lets let Duke run the ball

[Tulsa_Fireman]

After this rant, a side note: Has anyone figured out where Lendy Holmes has gone this year and why Nic Harris isn't the blitzing beast he was last year?

Nic Harris was a blitzing beast last year because he had to be for run support. Our DL was pretty dang soft last season, hence the 3-3 Stack and 4-2 Monster looks we'd throw out there. Point being...

It was by design, not necessarily to be aggressive, but to address an assist a known deficiency.

[KaleoHolley]

I don't think anyone here is saying they could do a better job then the coaching staff at OU. Answering why I think they sending Lendy instead of Nic Harris, If you haven't seen a game live, then you wouldn't know that Lendy is pretty much out of position every pass play, so why not send him in. The problem with that is he runs in there like a prissy girl. At the Texas game the drive where they rolled out to the right side and hit Crosby or Shipley in the flat that was the Jackson, Holmes side of the field, Holmes out of postion every play that drive, the next drive BV put Harris and Franks on that side, so they rolled left. Clearly Texas coaches knew that which ever side Lendy was on was the "weak" side of the field. How this topic turned about defense just goes to show its our defense and not our running game that is getting us in trouble... : )

[JLEW1818]

who knows

[CaliBornSoonerBred]

I don't think anyone here is saying they could do a better job then the coaching staff at OU. Answering why I think they sending Lendy instead of Nic Harris, If you haven't seen a game live, then you wouldn't know that Lendy is pretty much out of position every pass play, so why not send him in. The problem with that is he runs in there like a prissy girl. At the Texas game the drive where they rolled out to the right side and hit Crosby or Shipley in the flat that was the Jackson, Holmes side of the field, Holmes out of postion every play that drive, the next drive BV put Harris and Franks on that side, so they rolled left. Clearly Texas coaches knew that which ever side Lendy was on was the "weak" side of the field. How this topic turned about defense just goes to show its our defense and not our running game... : )

I've made every game live this year except for 2 and have noticed what you've said about Lendy. Against Cincy, he got torched 2 or 3 times but looked like if the ball was on the money, it could have been 4,5, or 6 times. That was the first thing we've noticed about the secondary was Lendy looking like a true freshman running around trying to figure out where he's supposed to be. WHERE'S SAM PROCTOR!

[PalmBeachSooner]

TT lineman are bigger and slower than ours and I see them get a back into the secondary w/o being touched all the time. If nothing else works, a delay when the other team is pass rushing should. Also, I think it is legal for lineman to be downfield on a pass if the pass is caught behind the line of scrimmage.

The thing I noticed about Tech is their gaps are much wider than ours. I know we tried wide gaps one year under Gibbs and our offense flat sucked. I'm not sure how Tech makes it work, but it seems to be the case.

[Pigface1]

I don't get it, they run all over my defense in practice.

[BoulderSooner79]

The thing I noticed about Tech is their gaps are much wider than ours. I know we tried wide gaps one year under Gibbs and our offense flat sucked. I'm not sure how Tech makes it work, but it seems to be the case.

I agree we don't run the same offense as Tech, so it's not completely apples to apples. But pro teams run delays successfully in passing situations all the time. It's a standard tool to use against a D that is in full pass defense mode. With our passing success, I gotta believe we could catch teams in full pass defense mode a lot. I just want to see DM in get the ball in space for a change. That one play where Sam got the ball to DM on a flair pass in the flats last week was great. Did you see the acceleration DM showed getting up field on that one? He may not have all his moves back, but he showed he still has his straight line speed on that one.

[Fraggle145]

My favorite quote of the press conference with Bob paraphrased...

Yep, we've only had to kick one field goal all year and have gone 27 for 28 in the redzone with TDs, which I have never seen in all my years of football. Yep we need to line up in that power I just so we can run the ball. :rolleyes:

[CaliBornSoonerBred]

My favorite quote of the press conference with Bob paraphrased...

Yep, we've only had to kick one field goal all year and have gone 27 for 28 in the redzone with TDs, which I have never seen in all my years of football. Yep we need to line up in that power I just so we can run the ball. :rolleyes:

And a complete stall out of the offense due to lack of running game in the fourth quarter didn't hurt us at all against texass. I'd love to know the stat on how many 3rd downs we've faced in the red zone this year, it seems like A LOT when watching the games.

[Fraggle145]

And a complete stall out of the offense due to lack of running game in the fourth quarter didn't hurt us at all against texass. I'd love to know the stat on how many 3rd downs we've faced in the red zone this year, it seems like A LOT when watching the games.

Or it could be said that they made plays when they had to, against our D because it was out of position with an inexperienced player and a refusal to switch out of cover 2 (for whatever reason). This kept their drives alive and then they busted 2 big plays.

we scored 35 points. I'm as disappointed as anyone with our anemic run game, but If you cant win after scoring 35 that is a Defensive problem IMO.

[Statalyzer]

"We just need to run it more often. That’s about it.”

At one point you guys ran on 1st down on 5 straight possessions and it just plain wasn't working. If anything, it was wearing your own OL down more than our DL because we got much better pressure on Bradford in the 4th quarter than we had in the 2nd and 3rd. Meanwhile your passing game was gutting us for almost 400 yards and 5 scores. I don't see how anyone could look at the game and say "Well, if OU had just called more running plays..."

[picasso]

At one point you guys ran on 1st down on 5 straight possessions and it just plain wasn't working. If anything, it was wearing your own OL down more than our DL because we got much better pressure on Bradford in the 4th quarter than we had in the 2nd and 3rd. Meanwhile your passing game was gutting us for almost 400 yards and 5 scores. I don't see how anyone could look at the game and say "Well, if OU had just called more running plays..."

oh man, the 2nd down run with Madu is what got me. then we turn around and punt it on 4th and 2. that was the whole enchilada.

[JLEW1818]

Nothing against Madu..... BUT were we trying to catch them off guard? having 3rd string in?

[BoulderSooner79]

Nothing against Madu..... BUT were we trying to catch them off guard? having 3rd string in?

Hoping for fresh legs maybe? I haven't seen much difference in results between the 3 backs. But with DM, we have had some successful swing passes, so we lose that.

[picasso]

hey Mossis runs as hard as anyone we have. not busting on him, just the timing of certain plays.

sheesh. I never should have quit my football coaching job.

[Curly Bill]

This was brought up in another thread but I believe one of the answers to the run game issues will be mis-directions, stretch plays, and tosses. If teams are sitting and waiting to blitz the middle against the run, then we are done. This has been happening since the TCU game. We have tremendous speed on the both sides of the ball so why don't we utilize it in the running game? Get the ball to the outside and let the backs do what they do.

We run the stretch play and it ****in sucks! Nothing worse then a RB back there 7 yards waiting for the QB to run the ball back there to him. Gives the defense plenty of time to converge on the runner.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Right on Bill..

[Curly Bill]

I don't get it, they run all over my defense in practice.

:D SPEK

[CK Sooner]

:D SPEK

I really thought it was Venables talking.

:D

[Curly Bill]

I really thought it was Venables talking.

:D

That's cause you're a dumas! ;)

[CK Sooner]

That's cause you're a dumas! ;)

So are you though.

:D

[aurorasooner]

We run the stretch play and it ****in sucks! Spek. Bob needs to tell KW that that play is reserved for Tenn-Chat and not to run it again this year unless we're up by 50 and Joey is in.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

We run the stretch play and it ****in sucks! Nothing worse then a RB back there 7 yards waiting for the QB to run the ball back there to him. Gives the defense plenty of time to converge on the runner, but it also allows the pre-snap read for the RB, the daylight read from the front five, allows the cutback to develop if it's there, establishes a solid run look to develop hard playaction, and gives the RB the chance to use the following to hit the open gap downhill.

Fixed. Deep one back is not a bad thing. Our run blocking is a bad thing. A certain running back not getting his knees up through contact is a bad thing. That same running back going down at first contact because he ain't getting those knees up through contact is a bad thing.

Let's not write one issue off as a problem when it's a compilation of issues that would make the one issue SEEM to be the problem.

[Curly Bill]

Fixed. Deep one back is not a bad thing. Our run blocking is a bad thing. A certain running back not getting his knees up through contact is a bad thing. That same running back going down at first contact because he ain't getting those knees up through contact is a bad thing.

Let's not write one issue off as a problem when it's a compilation of issues that would make the one issue SEEM to be the problem.

Stretch play sucks, you can do the same thing by pitching the ball back there and it's quicker. The stretch was an attempt to reinvent the wheel and actually took a step back.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

But the short pitch doesn't allow for the timing of all those things to develop. The stretch does.

The stretch is the bread and butter of the zone read. You HAVE to have the additional half-second the stretch gives you to let the set develop. If you hit it on the pitch or you hit it straight iso, you don't give it a chance to set up and you don't let the hole open. You know as good as I if you hit it like this, you need to hit it assigned hole, hit it hard, and hit it with ZERO movement behind the line of scrimmage. All downhill. If you hit it with the stretch, you buy a half second in that half-step and you open all those doors I mentioned earlier.

Does that make it better than hitting it on the pitch or the iso? Not necessarily. But don't blame the stretch as the problem because the stretch is doing exactly what it's supposed to do. It's everything else that's making the stretch suck, and might very well play more towards iso and pitches. But being a big proponent of a downhill running game, I can't see our front five pulling that off with the folds and pulls you need to press advantage in a downhill running game. It ain't happening. We're too big and too leadfoot to make it happen.

Hence zone blocking schemes with minimal pull, fold and reach. Hence the stretch.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

This was brought up in another thread but I believe one of the answers to the run game issues will be mis-directions, stretch plays, and tosses. If teams are sitting and waiting to blitz the middle against the run, then we are done. This has been happening since the TCU game. We have tremendous speed on the both sides of the ball so why don't we utilize it in the running game? Get the ball to the outside and let the backs do what they do.Good post. Also QUICK openers, instead of handing off 7 yds deep in the backfield.

[aurorasooner]

A certain running back not getting his knees up through contact is a bad thing. Agree that DM is not running anywhere close to the way he was last year, but the only thing getting his knees up on the stretch play last Saturday would've solved is he could've gotten his knees higher than the Texas defenders head because this is all he saw after getting the hand-off on the stretch play.
http://i351.photobucket.com/albums/q474/aurorasooner/ScreenShot022.jpg

[BudSooner]

You know what we don't have anymore that was an advantage...a fullback that made the defense **** itself.
Look at Tampa Bay, what made them great when Dungy got there is a solid defense, and one helluva sound running game...Warrick Dunn the slasher or the Tank fullback Mike Alstott, and a good passing offense.
Blech, Gruden done ****ed up all of that now...moron.
Anyway, FUNDAMENTALS. FUNDAMENTALS. RUN RUN RUN RUN...pass.

How many times has the team passed on first down? anyone got the stats?
I know from the times i've gotten to watch that it is ALOT, we have given up on the run so many times it's sickening.

Find someone, anyone who can run and knock down linebackers...safeties..please. BRING BACK THE DAMNED FULLBACK POSITION!

[Johnny Utah]

But the short pitch doesn't allow for the timing of all those things to develop. The stretch does.

The stretch is the bread and butter of the zone read. You HAVE to have the additional half-second the stretch gives you to let the set develop. If you hit it on the pitch or you hit it straight iso, you don't give it a chance to set up and you don't let the hole open. You know as good as I if you hit it like this, you need to hit it assigned hole, hit it hard, and hit it with ZERO movement behind the line of scrimmage. All downhill. If you hit it with the stretch, you buy a half second in that half-step and you open all those doors I mentioned earlier.

Does that make it better than hitting it on the pitch or the iso? Not necessarily. But don't blame the stretch as the problem because the stretch is doing exactly what it's supposed to do. It's everything else that's making the stretch suck, and might very well play more towards iso and pitches. But being a big proponent of a downhill running game, I can't see our front five pulling that off with the folds and pulls you need to press advantage in a downhill running game. It ain't happening. We're too big and too leadfoot to make it happen.

Hence zone blocking schemes with minimal pull, fold and reach. Hence the stretch.

Better listen to him, Flounder, he's in pre-med.

[KaleoHolley]

I think a stretch play works well if you have a QB with some wheels, Thats one thing Bradford doesn't have if he was even a threat to run with it i think we could suck some of the defenders in but when he goes to run the stretch play the defense knows to stay with the RB, Bradford doesn't ever keep it. I am sure i am getting stretch and zone read mixed up, but in this day in college football the zone read is pretty much a stretch play.

[BoulderSooner79]

Sam has plenty of speed to run the stretch play; plus I think being tall and having a long reach helps too and Sam has both. The Colts run the stretch all the time with Manning and I'll bet Sam is faster than Peyton. The advantage I see to the stretch over a pitch is that split second the D has to decide if it is indeed a wide play or just an off-tackle play. With the pitch, they know immediately, but the advantage is getting outside a tad quicker.

With the zone read, the QB doesn't move very far, especially out of the shotgun formation. And I've said before that I think OU should scrap the "fake" zone read that they run because Sam never runs, so there is no deception. It just causes the play to be slower developing. I have to admit that I was hoping that Sam was going to keep it last week in the 2nd half in a situation where we needed that one critical 3rd down conversion. I guarantee he could have gotten a free 5 yards just from the surprise. But in general, I don't want to see Sam keeping on an option either and I don't see why we keep running that "fake".

[Tulsa_Fireman]

And I've said before that I think OU should scrap the "fake" zone read that they run because Sam never runs, so there is no deception. It just causes the play to be slower developing. I have to admit that I was hoping that Sam was going to keep it last week in the 2nd half in a situation where we needed that one critical 3rd down conversion. I guarantee he could have gotten a free 5 yards just from the surprise. But in general, I don't want to see Sam keeping on an option either and I don't see why we keep running that "fake".

Sure there is.

That's what football people call "playaction".

[KaleoHolley]

I tend to disagree about Sam having speed, or maybe it just looks like he isn't moving at all because he is tall. But everyone is right, he doesn't ever keep it so as soon as the defense can recongnize the play its certain that its going to our backs. I would like to point out that Texas got about 50% of there rushing yards on one play, so they weren't exactly bulling us and running all over us. The college game is so so different then it use to. I don't even think a good run game is needed anymore, if Sam is passing for 400 yards per game, no need to establish a run game IMO

[JLEW1818]

Ya but its proving that pure passing teams don't win championships.

[BoulderSooner79]

Sure there is.

That's what football people call "playaction".

I'm not talking about the pass plays, I mean the plays were he hands-off. The lineman are already run blocking and potentially downfield and the option read is off the DE on whether to keep or hand-off. The D pretty much ignores the option that Sam will keep, as he always hands off. I haven't seen us use this fake for a play action pass, but maybe that's why it is still in the play book. I guess the bottom line is that until we start gashing teams with our running game, the fake isn't going to scare anybody.

[Eielson]

Any chance Calhoun gets some action?

[BoulderSooner79]

I tend to disagree about Sam having speed, or maybe it just looks like he isn't moving at all because he is tall. But everyone is right, he doesn't ever keep it so as soon as the defense can recongnize the play its certain that its going to our backs. I would like to point out that Texas got about 50% of there rushing yards on one play, so they weren't exactly bulling us and running all over us. The college game is so so different then it use to. I don't even think a good run game is needed anymore, if Sam is passing for 400 yards per game, no need to establish a run game IMO

I think we have different definitions for the stretch play and I'm not saying mine is correct. I thought the stretch play is when the QB has to move way outside behind the tackle and beyond just to make a hand-off to the back. It's not an option play - it's a straight hand-off and the run is way off-tackle "stretching" the D to the side-line. It's similar to a pitch sweep, except it is limited by the speed that the QB can get to the hand-off spot instead of limited by how fast the tailback can get outside. I use the Colts as an example because they are the team I see using it the most. It looks riskier than a pitch to me because to QB is moving so fast while extending the ball and both the QB and tailback are bouncing around during the exchange. A soft pitchout looks safer and the 2 players don't have to be so much in sync. But the Colts have used it very effectively over the years, so I'm sure there is an advantage to it for them. Could help with play action.

[CK Sooner]

Any chance Calhoun gets some action?

If you are thinking this year, no.

Next year he will see some time.

[KaleoHolley]

Yes, i think i was thinking of the Zone Read option play where the QB has the option of keeping it him self, As far as the Stretch play, Guys like DUKE don't get out front of anybody and that play is a certain loss, Just look at DM7 stellar 7 carries and 6 yards against texas i think at least 2 of those were of the stretch variety.

[KaleoHolley]

Ya but its proving that pure passing teams don't win championships.

So are teams that give up 45 points.

[Phantasm]

someone needs to run the ball!

[OU_Sooners75]

Well...When all we do is run up the middle, run off tackle our run game will very seldom work.

I know one thing...when all you do us run between the tackles, all a team has to do is sit in cover 3, and run biltz on running downs. Clog the gaps and you have successfully stopped the run.

Instead of the OLine voicing their disgust and Wilson agreeing, we need to have the ability and smarts to call different run plays.

What happens when 8 defenders clog the middle against 5-6 blockers? It opens up the outside.

With our speed and the talent we have, why not utilize it? do more traps, counters, and toss plays? Maybe even throw in an option play once in awhile? And by all means, play power offense! Run from the I-Formation, or power/weak I! When we did run form the I against Texas, we gained more than 1 or 2 yards!

When was the last time we saw a true option play? Jason White against Nebraska in 2001?

[TXBOOMER]

Sounds to me like Duke is being a whiney bitch and needs to run some steps.


Totally Agree! How about making a freaking hole to run through!

[IronSooner]

Anybody remember the last toss sweep we ran?

[JLEW1818]

whatever happened to the shovel pass? "shuttle" "shuffle"

[Pigface1]

:D SPEK

I just saw that, thanks man. lol

[Pigface1]

As for running goes, it's been nice seeing Demarco finally come alive. CB's turned into a beast, too.

[swardboy]

Interesting thread to resurrect....

[stoops the eternal pimp]

After seeing what Baylor did to A&M, I m not so impressed anymore with that performance...they are playing better tho, thats fo sho