Don't know if its been discussed.....

[oumartin]

But how many of you feel like I do.
I feel that Bob is now the more timid coach who has equal to better talent in the OU/TX game but coaches his team not to lose instead of coaching his team to win.
I feel that Texas has a mental edge and a coaching edge on Oklahoma now.
Their assistants are better coaches on the defensive side of the ball and their head coach seems more relaxed while Bob looks defeated more times then not.

Its just like a serious 180 form 5 years ago

[tommieharris91]

5 years ago we beat them 65-13. I think a lot of it changed when Vince Young and his merry band blew us out.

[A Horn]

Interesting. Except you guys were ranked higher 5 years ago too. :)

I will agree though. Texas has a great team feel and swagger to it as opposed to the big names now, and the tables do seem to have turned in that respect. Simms-Bradford, Williams-Iglesias/Johnson, Benson-Murray, Kindle/Orakpo-Williams/Lehman-Calmus.

[Booner]

Northern Mexico (Tejas) is one good hit on McCoy from disaster. He's done a great job this year and I was impressed with Shipley and Cosby but I doubt the RB backing up McCoy could keep the horns alive in the Big 12 South.

[fwsooner22]

Interesting. Except you guys were ranked higher 5 years ago too. :)

I will agree though. Texas has a great team feel and swagger to it as opposed to the big names now, and the tables do seem to have turned in that respect. Simms-Bradford, Williams-Iglesias/Johnson, Benson-Murray, Kindle/Orakpo-Williams/Lehman-Calmus.



OK.....If Stoops wins that game he is 7-3 (last 10) against Texas that would have been time for UT panic. They would have called for changes. It didn't happen. Let's just beat Kansas and watch what the party boys do with the #1 ranking. By the way they haven't had it in the regular season since 1984 and they tanked miserably following the party they threw for themselves then. Let them bury their heads in success and toast the painted light bulbs in the prayer tower. We have experience in this and its time to move on.

Swagger and attitude actually won that game ????........we (on this board) are better than that. :confused: :rolleyes:

[St. Louis Sooner]

guys ... we really should be focusing on KU (like 'our thoughts' can really win the game! :rolleyes: ), but this topic is too juicy to pass up ...

bob's teams have been missing that intangible aspect that I cannot quite put my finger on ... iow, i can't describe it but i can see it; maybe it's related to coaching, but i'm not sure;

Bob's team had it in 2000, and i kinda see it in UT right now; because I believe i see it, my gut tells me that UT is going to run the table to the big12 ccg;

we have great athletes and great talent and the talent even works hard, but that confidence/swagger/team unity/passion/leadership :confused: or something akin to all of those seems missing; maybe it's simply stated as 'lack of fun'? not sure ...

i see it in kw's lack of imagination on offense; i see it when sammy doesn't throw downfield to one of his covered receivers; i see it when the kickoff coverage team has that unseen 'hole' in its coverage game after game; i see it when our sooners allow the little things to get to them; i see it in Bob's face, time after time, 'cuz he's so mad at either the players or the refs for being wrong; i see it when we consistently lose the BCS bowl games; i see it in our thoughtless penalties that benefit the other team; i see it in our poor tackling;

I'm probably going to get neg'd for this, but i do believe something is missing that is preventing him from getting back to the top; i'd like to say it's due to the coaching but I just don't know; i just know i see it on game days;

[oumartin]

two words ARROGANCE and COMPLACENCY

[soonervegas]

I agree with oumartin 100% on this. More than BV, bad calls, and Reynolds injury - Texas has been the looser and hungier team in this game the last 4 years.

[aurorasooner]

What we're missing on offense is some creativity in the run game. In the 1st drive we had a WR in motion with a fake handoff and then a rollout with a flat pass to DM. Confused the h&*l out of the Texas LBs because they had to cover both sides of the offense. If we're he&& bent on running from that deep one-back set then why not incorporate that motion in virtually every play including our running plays to at least give the opposing LBs something to worry about instead of immediately scraping to our running point of attack. After a couple of plays we can sub the motion WR/RB for a blow.
On defense, I'm still not sure BV will ever be a great DC, but BJW 'ain't' helping with his DB coaching/teaching, but did a good job with DEs, imo. We should've hired Marvin Sanders (Saunders-?) when Frankie got canned in Lincoln, or another quality DB coach who can teach man-on-man coverage. BTW, I noticed he's back in Lincoln with Pelini.
In any event these soft zone coverages that we play aren't cutting it against accurate QBs. Thanks goodness Scott went to CU instead of Texas. I don't know what we would've done last Saturday if we had to defense McCoy's accurate passing/scrambling as well as having to defense against a top-quality Texas' running back, which we'll probably have to do next year. And, I think the Whorns only have 1 Sr. (Dockery) on their OL this year, but not really sure.

[ashley]

No, this is absurd.

[JLEW1818]

In the end Stoops wife is hotter than uncle macks

[okcusooner]

I'm probably going to get neg'd for this, but i do believe something is missing that is preventing him from getting back to the top; i'd like to say it's due to the coaching but I just don't know; i just know i see it on game days;

Truth doesn't deserve a neg. What disturbs me most are the simple penalties like off-sides or false starts.

Also disturbing is that sinking feeling that the defense will fold in the final minutes of the fourth quarter. Reflecting back to Boise State, I instinctively looked at the clock after Walker's pic-6, and thought, "Damn, 1:09 that's too much time". My next thought was that I never would have had that previous thought when Mike Stoops was still around.

How many of us had that sinking feeling that the defense would not step up after Bob decided to punt on Fourth and Two? I know I did.

[The Maestro]

Eh, I think this is premature, but I understand your frustration.

Stoops mentioned the crappy arm tackling on the kickoff return. I know those players aren't coached to do that. OU was smelling blood at 14-3 and our special teams blew it.

On the fake punt, that was quite a bold move, not timid. And if Gresham was a blocker instead of a spectator on that play, Knall pulls it off and the Riverboat Gambler is praised throughout the land.

Texas might have better defensive assistants, but they will come and go quick...again. Heck, Muschamp is already being talked about in Clemson. Just like Robinson and Chizik, he is passing through Austin.

It's disappointing, but it was THIS close to being an OU win. I just wish at 38-35 we would have put together the drive of the year instead of what we displayed on the field. Trailing in the fourth with adversity we appeared very average.

[PDXsooner]

not even close. fake-punting and running the no-huddle is how you play to win. save these ridiculous assesments. if we get the extra yard on the fake punt, or if we hang onto the interception in the endzone, we probably win and the conversation is completely different.

college football games hang on the result of single plays and sometimes inches. a few examples:

if USC gets another yard on 4th down against texas, we're still hearing about how mack can't win the big one and vince young's legacy would have never reached the level it did.

our 2000 title run, if OSU throws that pass in the corner of the endzone a few inches higher, they win and stoops has no title.

same year (2000), if torrance marshall drops that pick return, we probably don't come back and win.

hell, tom osborne couldn't win the "big one" and got blown out in every bowl for about 6 years in a row, then BAM, BAM, BAM -- 3 national titles. that's how the game is, you just have to roll with the punches.

[PDXsooner]

Interesting. Except you guys were ranked higher 5 years ago too. :)

I will agree though. Texas has a great team feel and swagger to it as opposed to the big names now, and the tables do seem to have turned in that respect. Simms-Bradford, Williams-Iglesias/Johnson, Benson-Murray, Kindle/Orakpo-Williams/Lehman-Calmus.

yea, right. talk to me after your next 3 games. you'll have 2 losses, one for sure.

[Jeronimo]

TOTALLY agree with PDX on this one. I do have those feelings that something is missing during games like this last one. I, like most of you, cant quite point it out. But i do think PDX is right on.

[Crimsontothecore]

not even close. fake-punting and running the no-huddle is how you play to win. save these ridiculous assesments. if we get the extra yard on the fake punt, or if we hang onto the interception in the endzone, we probably win and the conversation is completely different.

college football games hang on the result of single plays and sometimes inches. a few examples:

if USC gets another yard on 4th down against texas, we're still hearing about how mack can't win the big one and vince young's legacy would have never reached the level it did.

our 2000 title run, if OSU throws that pass in the corner of the endzone a few inches higher, they win and stoops has no title.

same year (2000), if torrance marshall drops that pick return, we probably don't come back and win.

hell, tom osborne couldn't win the "big one" and got blown out in every bowl for about 6 years in a row, then BAM, BAM, BAM -- 3 national titles. that's how the game is, you just have to roll with the punches.
I nominate this as post of the century.
I always find it interesting to hear my fellow OU fans reference the 2000 team as though it were dominate start to finish. That team got lucky on many occasions and the ball always bounced our way. We also had another rare fortune in that no major injuries occurred.
Fact is, winning and losing are separated by a very thin line. As long as we win, all is good but as soon as you lose a close one to the nations #5 team, the sky is falling.

[oumartin]

you guys are crazy if you don't think there hasn't been a swing from OU to Texas as far as mental edge and assistant coaching. Specifically on the defensive side

[okcusooner]

I nominate this as post of the century.
I always find it interesting to hear my fellow OU fans reference the 2000 team as though it were dominate start to finish. That team got lucky on many occasions and the ball always bounced our way. We also had another rare fortune in that no major injuries occurred.
Fact is, winning and losing are separated by a very thin line. As long as we win, all is good but as soon as you lose a close one to the nations #5 team, the sky is falling.

The problem is that the 2000 and 2004 teams consistently got on the winning side of that thin line in close 4th quarter games.

Since then, OU has lost more close end-games than it has won. That, really, is the intangible that I think this thread refers to.

[primetime43]

OUr swagger went to Arizona.

[SoFla Sooner]

No, this is absurd.

The voice of reason in a lone post. Thanks.

I nominate this thread for over-reaction thread of the week.

[Lott's Bandana]

The voice of reason in a lone post. Thanks.

I nominate this thread for over-reaction thread of the week.

It's pretty much the first actual meltdown I've seen.

PDX is spot-on.

Nothing has swung to texas....they can't beat Kansas State or aTm.

Saturday was exactly as described...a college football game that was like a championship fight. Ali-Frazier...

[PDXsooner]

you guys are crazy if you don't think there hasn't been a swing from OU to Texas as far as mental edge and assistant coaching. Specifically on the defensive side

what convinced you of that? the 500 yards we racked up on them this year or last year's victory?

hell, or the 100 yard advantage we had on them in their win in 2006?

[FlatheadSooner]

It's disappointing, but it was THIS close to being an OU win. I just wish at 38-35 we would have put together the drive of the year instead of what we displayed on the field. Trailing in the fourth with adversity we appeared very average.

Agree. There were several very different but controllable issues that could have easily turned the outcome of this game - Penalities, kickoff coverage, use of hurry-up vs last second play changes, better mixing up of offensive play calling in 2H, and a ready backup for our most vulnerable key player on defence. Good news is we have time to learn and adjust. Question is how OU responds. I still have faith!!!
:cool:

[hink4769]

Anyone who says bob stoops is becoming timid and conservative is way off the mark. the biggest change between the "old" days and now in the OU-TX game is that colt mccoy/vince young >> chris simms (and TFRW was terrible in those games too which helped immensely).

[Curly Bill]

you guys are crazy if you don't think there hasn't been a swing from OU to Texas as far as mental edge and assistant coaching. Specifically on the defensive side

Some people can't or won't see it, others won't admit it, but you're right.

[douxpaysan]

you guys are crazy if you don't think there hasn't been a swing from OU to Texas as far as mental edge and assistant coaching. Specifically on the defensive sidefish...fish...fish...fish

[PDXsooner]

Some people can't or won't see it, others won't admit it, but you're right.

OU's defense overall hasn't been as good as the 2000-2003 teams against ANYONE. it's not just texas.

[Curly Bill]

OU's defense overall hasn't been as good as the 2000-2003 teams against ANYONE. it's not just texas.

Agreed, our defense hasn't been the same since you know who left for the desert. Venables is not the answer, it's becoming more and more apparent, so why won't Bob do something about it?

[JLEW1818]

Their wife's must get along.

[Curly Bill]

Their wife's must get along.

...and their kids go to the same school and they BBQ together and so on. That's all fine and good, but Bob has to be smart enough to see that there's a problem.

[PDXsooner]

Agreed, our defense hasn't been the same since you know who left for the desert. Venables is not the answer, it's becoming more and more apparent, so why won't Bob do something about it?

because you have to be able to get someone better. let's not overlook the fact that OU has won 12, 8, 11, 11 games with venables. also, the 2005 & 2006 defenses both started slow but played VERY WELL as the season progressed.

[Curly Bill]

because you have to be able to get someone better. let's not overlook the fact that OU has won 12, 8, 11, 11 games with venables. also, the 2005 & 2006 defenses both started slow but played VERY WELL as the season progressed.

Right now to get someone better I'm not sure we couldn't throw a dart at a dartboard and do it. The two to three defensive meltdowns we experience a year under BV are getting old.

That's right two to three meltdowns per year....we're gonna have another this year -- you can book it.

[PDXsooner]

The two to three defensive meltdowns we experience a year under BV are getting old.

kind of like the 2 meltdowns mike stoops suffered in 2002 (giving up long td after long td in the 30-26 loss to a&m) OR the debacle against OSU in stillwater (when it looked like we'd never faced a passing team in giving up 38)?

fyi, i'm not saying BV shouldn't be replaced, i just think sometimes we remember m. stoops being more perfect than he was. and i don't know if ANYONE could replicate the suffocating defenses the 2000 & 2001 teams had.

i also would like to know who we'd replace him with?

[JLEW1818]

Compare 26 and 38 to the other numbers

[PDXsooner]

Compare 26 and 38 to the other numbers

why? did you watch those games in 2002? OU couldn't stop them at all. what's the difference?

[JLEW1818]

The difference ?????

Fiesta bowl - Boise State 43
Fiesta bowl - West Virgina 48
Orange bowl - USC 55
RRS - Texas 45
RRS - Texas 45

Are you serious?

[JLEW1818]

Talking about meltdowns ? Every year BV has been head DC there has been a meltdown

[oumartin]

Everytime OU took the field from 2000 to 2005 they played loose. they played to win the game. Even after the beatdown again K-State the players still walked onto the field like they knew they were gonna win. Even after the loss to LSU they had it.
When USC rolled over OU you saw a coaching staff starting and the program as a hole starting to act timid. Now anytime they play a meaningful game they seem a little apprehensive. almost like they are waiting for another Buzzsaw to come at them. When they get a lead they sit on it. Afraid to see what might happen if they keep the foot on the gas. They seem to wanna keep all plays in front of them instead of going for broke. Sometimes going for broke is what needs to happen. When was the last time you saw a defensive back jump a route and take one back? Now all INT's are on tipped balls or when its overthrown.
This program has started playing the very way the old Sooners would have taken advantage off.


Also realize this. Its gonna be at least 10 years between NC for this program. Even from 1985 to 2000 was only 15. Without doubt the program is in better shape than it was but we are only (at minimum) beat that drought by a couple years.

[Boomer_Sooner_sax]

I agree with oumartin 100% on this. More than BV, bad calls, and Reynolds injury - Texas has been the looser and hungier team in this game the last 4 years.


I concur as well. If you want a good example, look at the emotion from Mac Brown when they stopped the fake punt. At that point, you knew they wanted it more.

[Sasakwa]

I wouldn't say trying a fake punt is timid, that took guts, nor is it coaching not to lose, he was going for the knockout punch.

[JLEW1818]

We are not getting as many breaks as we use to because we are not in position to.

[Curly Bill]

We are not getting as many breaks as we use to because we are not in position to.

True dat, we play a soft type defense. We're OU damn it, we should be making things happen, not letting things happen to us.

[Boomer_Sooner_sax]

I wouldn't say trying a fake punt is timid, that took guts, nor is it coaching not to lose, he was going for the knockout punch.

No, I totally agree. I liked the play call, but just look at Mac's emotion and fire when they stopped it.

[Leroy Lizard]

I don't know if Bob has become more timid, but I distinctly remember the expression on his face on the sidelines before the USC game. My feeling was, "uh-oh, what's wrong with Bob?" He looked pale and nervous. Carroll, on the other hand, looked loose and excited. Bad omen.

Did anyone else notice?

[Curly Bill]

I can't focus on what Bob's doing, I'm too busy wishing for a meteorite to fall out of the sky onto Venables.