KW Throws the Backs under the bus

[tulsaoilerfan]

This has been mentioned in another thread, but i thought it deserved its own thread; Wilson said " I don't think we ran hard at times" and to me that's total bs and very weak; feel free to discuss and ad your own comments

[bluesmagoo]

Wilson needs to go back to the Big 10. Slow, fat and unimaginative.

[8timechamps]

This has been mentioned in another thread, but i thought it deserved its own thread; Wilson said " I don't think we ran hard at times" and to me that's total bs and very weak; feel free to discuss and ad your own comments

I have to agree with him. Too many times, it looked like we hit the LOS and had already decided we couldn't get any more yards.

However, much of that credit goes to the Texas front four.

[bcgvh]

I agree somewhat with what he said. Murray barely gets touched and he falls forward every time. This is where we miss AP, no one fights like that for yards. Brown does a decent job, but man, Murray just doesn't look right out there.

[tulsaoilerfan]

I agree somewhat with what he said. Murray barely gets touched and he falls forward every time. This is where we miss AP, no one fights like that for yards. Brown does a decent job, but man, Murray just doesn't look right out there.

Then why is he still starting? At some point both Wilson and Gundy need to step up and get it figured out

[aurorasooner]

I don't think KW threw the running backs under this bus with that comment, but I do agree that perhaps he (and perhaps our other coaches) are being hard-headed/one-directional in that they think this offensive line should (and will) with enough cattle-prodding move quality defensive players 10 yards back into the defensive backfield, when our previous efforts against quality well-coached defenses show they can't. We also saw this "Banzai attack" approach with probably the best running back of this decade getting his share of being stuffed by a brick wall. Sam needs to bring some of his Cherokee buddies in and teach KW how to Indian fight instead of marching straight up into the gunfire, British style.

[okiewaker]

Then why is he still starting? At some point both Wilson and Gundy need to step up and get it figured out

I'm guessing not a lot of choices

[The Maestro]

So if we weren't running hard give the ball to the guys that do run hard...Manny, JI, Broyles and Gresham. NO ONE in America has a receiving corps like that with great hands, ability to get yards after catch and makes big plays. While the hell would you want to run it? Our QB throwing to those guys is unstoppable...unless you make it 2nd and 9 or 10 enough times just to try and stay balanced.

[SoonerLB]

I agree somewhat with what he said. Murray barely gets touched and he falls forward every time. This is where we miss AP, no one fights like that for yards. Brown does a decent job, but man, Murray just doesn't look right out there.

I couldn't agree more! Not sure if it is physical or mental, but Murray is not running like he is 100%.

I also agree with aurorasooner about the coaches being "hard-headed/one-directional" when it comes to the running game.

[Curly Bill]

Maybe if they had a few running plays were they didn't have to smash into the line of scrimmage (Big-10 style) they would run harder. Not to excuse, though it sounds like it, them not running hard, but would a little variety in our running game where the defense can't key on one or two run plays kill us?

[Curly Bill]

Wilson needs to go back to the Big 10. Slow, fat and unimaginative.

I'm not gonna say we should cast him off, but his running scheme does show a complete lack of imagination.

[Johnny Utah]

I don't think KW threw the running backs under this bus with that comment, but I do agree that perhaps he (and perhaps our other coaches) are being hard-headed/one-directional in that they think this offensive line should (and will) with enough cattle-prodding move quality defensive players 10 yards back into the defensive backfield, when our previous efforts against quality well-coached defenses show they can't. We also saw this "Banzai attack" approach with probably the best running back of this decade getting his share of being stuffed by a brick wall. Sam needs to bring some of his Cherokee buddies in and teach KW how to Indian fight instead of marching straight up into the gunfire, British style.

Good comments, and with that you have to wonder how much greater that RB would have been (Heisman?) with a line that could run block. Time to start going with a more mobile o-line that helps the skill players make plays in space.

[Curly Bill]

We are not going with a smaller (more mobile) offensive line -- the big line is what everyone does these days, and is the best way to combat 300+ pound defensive tackles. Sure we could throw smaller quicker guys on the line but then it'd be jail break on them running over us to get to the QB.

[Breadburner]

Chris Brown Avg...4.1 ypc in the game....To me he should be getting the bulk of the carries.....

[Sooner Schemer]

If he really wanted to establish the run, why didn't he run more out of a 2-back set?

But where the talent lies on offense, OU would be better suited to establishing a passing game first, in order to set up the run. That worked pretty well in 2003 until Jason got hurt.

[soonerinabilene]

I think that if he called a play that got the running backs to the outside, like, oh, i dont know, the pitch that got chris brown an 11 yard run yesterday, instead of handing it off 7 yards back and running in between the tackles, we would see a lot more productivity out of our backs. And that misdirection play where the qb moves to the right but pitches it left, thats a good one, too.

[Johnny Utah]

I think that if he called a play that got the running backs to the outside, like, oh, i dont know, the pitch that got chris brown an 11 yard run yesterday, instead of handing it off 7 yards back and running in between the tackles, we would see a lot more productivity out of our backs. And that misdirection play where the qb moves to the right but pitches it left, thats a good one, too.


Absolutely! Why we abandoned that is beyond me. Stop making it easy for the D to just load the box ... make them actually work to get to the ball carrier.

[Curly Bill]

I think that if he called a play that got the running backs to the outside, like, oh, i dont know, the pitch that got chris brown an 11 yard run yesterday, instead of handing it off 7 yards back and running in between the tackles, we would see a lot more productivity out of our backs. And that misdirection play where the qb moves to the right but pitches it left, thats a good one, too.

Yup, the biggest problem is not with our line itself, but with the utter simplicity and predictability of our running scheme.

I mean how hard is it to stop a running attack that going into the game you know all they're gonna do is run between the tackles?

[BoulderSooner79]

I don't think KW threw the running backs under this bus with that comment, but I do agree that perhaps he (and perhaps our other coaches) are being hard-headed/one-directional in that they think this offensive line should (and will) with enough cattle-prodding move quality defensive players 10 yards back into the defensive backfield, when our previous efforts against quality well-coached defenses show they can't. We also saw this "Banzai attack" approach with probably the best running back of this decade getting his share of being stuffed by a brick wall. Sam needs to bring some of his Cherokee buddies in and teach KW how to Indian fight instead of marching straight up into the gunfire, British style.

You hit all the nails on the head! As many yards as AD got in '04, I was always amazed at how many times he stuffed by lineman and had no place to go. He was such a phenomenal athlete paired with a top passing attack that he should have threatened the NCAA record for yds/carry. That really came home with his performance in the NFL with a team with a lousy pass attack. Our running scheme issue has been there for a while.

[birddog]

I'm not gonna say we should cast him off, but his running scheme does show a complete lack of imagination.

yet we hear year after year that they will analyze how they coach but not once do they mention some new offensive schemes?

there is a massive problem with our running game whether it's immobile, fat dudes on the line or just predictable playcalling or a combo of both.

[Curly Bill]

yet we hear year after year that they will analyze how they coach but not once do they mention some new offensive schemes?

there is a massive problem with our running game whether it's immobile, fat dudes on the line or just predictable playcalling or a combo of both.

Our line is pretty much like every other OL in college football right now...

...so you tell me what the main problem is?

edit...except we have linemen that will be making millions in the NFL and highly rated backs, whereas some college teams do not.

[DallasSooner87]

I blame Chuck "3rd and" Long. :D

[St. Louis Sooner]

not sure why kw is doing that; makes no sense unless he's got the same attitude that leach has about harrell & co at tech - where he criticizes them publicly to try to motivate them somehow ???; he criticized the line after the TCU game too (for not moving their feet, if i remember correctly);

the output of a good run-blocking line + good backs can be a non-starter against def lines that really step up in a high exposure game; our pass blocking is much better than our run blocking; murray doesn't seem to be as shifty as last year; establishing a run game against each opponent seems to have kw frustrated right now;

[aurorasooner]

Our line is pretty much like every other OL in college football right now......so you tell me what the main problem is? I posted this on another board back when we played 'Bama in that 2 game series. In the 1st game in Norman, even though we won, Bama's running play sets/blocking schemes were like comparing an Oklahoma jr. highs running play formations to a D-1 team's running play formations. Bama's backs were well-coached to be patient and wait for the trap-blocks to develop and the holes to open, while our running backs just ran into line and if the hole was there, fine. Bama was out-athleted in our 2 wins with some luck but if you go back and watch the games, their running play design/RB coaching/OL coaching were way way ahead of ours. I
IMO, nothing has changed since then and we still use a brute-force/no imagination approach to running the football which works well when we out-match an average opponent physically but when we get into a game with a quality opponent with exceptional defensive players and defensive coaches, we have no answer with the running game except to pray for a small crease to develop in their defense or to throw the football when we need 2/3 yards for a critical 1st down.

[JohnnyMack]

Our O line can't run block. For ****. Adrian Peterson & Earl Campbell wouldn't look good running behind these guys.

[swardboy]

It has been mentioned that AD has been schooled in Minnesota to wait for the blocks to develop.....

[tulsaoilerfan]

It has been mentioned that AD has been schooled in Minnesota to wait for the blocks to develop.....

From what i have seen this season, he hasn't had much of chance to wait for said blocks to develop

[Johnny Utah]

It's pretty inexcusable for a coach to throw any player(s) under the bus ... and IMHO a pretty pathetic motivational tool. How about the coach(es) putting the players, and the team, in the best possible position to be successful by actually coaching ...if the game plan isn't working adjust it.

[East Coast Bias]

Isn't it the Offensive Coordinator's job to ensure the RB's "run Hard"? If they don,t , get them out of there...

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I think there is a part truth in it......Murray still hasn't ran hard IMO and Chris Brown is not a big yardage back..I like him...I like the way he runs...but he is Kejuan with a little better balance and strength...

But here is where the O line struggles and part of it may be the instruction they get...They never get off of the block and make it to the next level to take out somebody else......They don't move their feet...

If you DVR'd the game yesterday, watch a run play with Gresham in the game...The guy just half ***'s his run blocks......If the ball is not in his hands, he just seems to take the play off

so you have..


1. backs who 1 is playing up to potential, one is not
2. O line is not run blocking.
3. TE position is not doing their part

[MamaMia]

I think that if he called a play that got the running backs to the outside, like, oh, i dont know, the pitch that got chris brown an 11 yard run yesterday, instead of handing it off 7 yards back and running in between the tackles, we would see a lot more productivity out of our backs. And that misdirection play where the qb moves to the right but pitches it left, thats a good one, too.
I agree.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I'm not gonna say we should cast him off, but his running scheme does show a complete lack of imagination.

I didn't see the game being in Qatar, but did we run any counter play or any run scheme to isolate the runner against the grain? Everything to me seemed vanilla big 10-11 run up the gut.

[MamaMia]

Did Wilson really publicly call out his own players?

[tulsaoilerfan]

Did Wilson really publicly call out his own players?

"I don't think we ran real hard at times"-Kevin Wilson quote in today's TW

Now he didn't mention anyone by name, but take that as what you will

[MamaMia]

Texas was OBVIOUSLY ready to stop our run. Isn't running up the middle on 1st down what we're all about? Its real simple. Stop doing that!

[Curly Bill]

I didn't see the game being in Qatar, but did we run any counter play or any run scheme to isolate the runner against the grain? Everything to me seemed vanilla big 10-11 run up the gut.

Nope, we apparently think any kind of misdirection play is beneath us. ;)

[East Coast Bias]

I hope the coaches solve this problem now. They have let some of the other problems go on too long.Ie kick-off coverage. I can't believe we can't put forth a credible run attack with our personell? What about Madu? How about an occassional QB draw if the backs can't run? Bottom-line is we need some better coaching.

[OK2LA]

The one time that I did notice that we had Sam pitch outside (to I believe DM) we had much better success - getting him outside is obviously the better option.

I'm have no football mind here, so not sure if that was just a lucky play against that defensive set, but I was frustrated as to why it took so long to call that kind of running play. (Late in 4th if I remember correctly)

Also - answer me this - if we have such a huge, great, dominant, veteran line - how come we can't block better for the running game? I dunno.

[Curly Bill]

if we have such a huge, great, dominant, veteran line - how come we can't block better for the running game? I dunno.

Because everyone in the world knows where we're going to run, and so on the snap the entire DL and all the LB's and any DB not in coverage moves/sprints to that spot. We are too simple and one dimensional in our run game.

[CtheB]

Two simple questions: 1.) Is DeMarco Murray an adequate running back? 2.) Is our offensive line any good?

If your answer to these two questions are yes, then you can't say that coaching isn't the problem.

Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but our running game sucks. And I don't think the parts are the real problem.

[boomermet]

Texas was OBVIOUSLY ready to stop our run. Isn't running up the middle on 1st down what we're all about? Its real simple. Stop doing that!

exactly. Put it this way.. If you, sitting in your living room or whatever, know what the play is, everyone knows what the play is. The interesting thing was that kw was content to just pop in the line on first like he had downs to burn.. When we ran outside we did ok...Really, the o was the problem yesterday, almost everything else fell apart. Pass defense jus went away and special were, well they were not special..I saw just a little of the after the game interviews and bob looked really guilty. He actually admitted that the 4 & 2 punt was wrong....We do look like an old b 10 team sometimes.
I hope we learned something from this lost and not just blame the players. Everyone admiltted that OU took way to long to get the play called in the first half. Texas ran it and went right on to the next play. We did to finally and it worked...By the way, was there anything said about the pass that we intercepted that was called incomplete? Could we have protested that call?

[MissouriSooner]

On running plays, Murray sets up about 7 yards off the line of scrimmage, and he jogs in place until Sam runs back with the ball extended the length of his arm to give Murray the ball. With the speed on defense of most D-1 teams, this takes long enough for at least 7 or 8 guys to run to the point of attack. While our O-line should do a better job of run-blocking, no offensive line can block that many guys at the line of scrimmage to consistently give the RB a decent hole to run through. What would be nice would be for us to use that same formation, but for Sam, instead of handing the ball off to Murray, to pull it down and throw to receivers about ten yards past the line of scrimmage. With the defense committing that many guys to the LOS, there'd have to be at least a couple of receivers open. And, the next time Sam ran back with the ball extended to Murray, the LBs would at least have to stop to check that he actually gave him the ball. As has been said, we are too predictable in our run game for it to be effective.

[tulsaoilerfan]

IF we want to run the ball, why don't we use Eldridge more as the lead blocker? He made all Big 12 last year, but we hardly use him this year in that role

[soonerlucky]

Is it time to pull the redshirt off one of the freshman rb's?

[Johnny Utah]

If you all want to see a RB run hard (and Lord knows I see and hear enough of it around here in the ATL) watch Moreno with UGA. Dude won't give up and after every play makes an effort to POP UP and race back to the huddle no matter how hard he was hit on the preceding play ... sort of the antithesis to Jim Brown who most of my generation was schooled in.

[Curly Bill]

Is it time to pull the redshirt off one of the freshman rb's?

Besides Calhoun what other Frosh RB's are there?

...and the answer is no! The problem is not with our backs, it's with the simplistic
Big-10 style run scheme.

[soonerlucky]

Justin Johnson?

[Curly Bill]

Justin Johnson?

He's already played.