Oklahoma can no longer win the big game...

[GoSoonersGo]

I am tired of being a good team against medicore teams. We have to learn to win the big games again, or we will continue to lose 2-3 games a year. Maybe we need a new defensive coach?

[stoops the eternal pimp]

So Missouri was not a big game?

[StormySooner-IN]

Mediocre? Texass is mediocre?


WTF?

[Spray]

Holy ****. Find one of the other 72 threads calling for BVs head to post in.

I almost wish he would get fired so we could start in on the next one.

[PDXsooner]

yeah, beating #1 missouri to win the conference championship wasn't big.

[Sooner98]

I thought you had to have a certain amount of posts to be able to start a thread? :confused:

[Scoregasm]

We do win "big" games, just not enough to get another Crystal Trophy.

I was at the Big 12 Championship and we were incredible againt Mizzou, then we fell apart against WVU.

Not enough consistency.

Jekyl and Hyde-ism I guess.

[GrapevineSooner]

Well, I figure this thread is as good as any thread to remind people of this:

While I'll admit it's becoming harder to defend BV for these continual instances of giving up 40+ points at least twice a year, I suspect there's nobody on the coaching staff racking their brain more for a solution to all this than BV himself. And right behind him in the brain racking department is Bob Stoops.

That having been said, questioning why these instances keep happening isn't out of bounds. By all means, that's why message boards exist in the first place. I can also certainly understand the frustration that many fans feel over these instances. I'm frustrated, too.

The only people I'd object to is those who think just firing Brent Venables will suddenly cure all this teams' ills. The problem is simply a lot more complex than that.

[Curly Bill]

Well, I figure this thread is as good as any thread to remind people of this:

While I'll admit it's becoming harder to defend BV for these continual instances of giving up 40+ points at least twice a year, I suspect there's nobody on the coaching staff racking their brain more for a solution to all this than BV himself. And right behind him in the brain racking department is Bob Stoops.

That having been said, questioning why these instances keep happening isn't out of bounds. By all means, that's why message boards exist in the first place. I can also certainly understand the frustration that many fans feel over these instances. I'm frustrated, too.

The only people I'd object to is those who think just firing Brent Venables will suddenly cure all this teams' ills. The problem is simply a lot more complex than that.

Agreed, but we gotta start somewhere. :P :D

[85Sooner]

Holy ****. Find one of the other 72 threads calling for BVs head to post in.

I almost wish he would get fired so we could start in on the next one.

That would work for me. Anyway ya want to do it as long as it gets done.

[BevoAssassin]

Well, I figure this thread is as good as any thread to remind people of this:

While I'll admit it's becoming harder to defend BV for these continual instances of giving up 40+ points at least twice a year, I suspect there's nobody on the coaching staff racking their brain more for a solution to all this than BV himself. And right behind him in the brain racking department is Bob Stoops.

That having been said, questioning why these instances keep happening isn't out of bounds. By all means, that's why message boards exist in the first place. I can also certainly understand the frustration that many fans feel over these instances. I'm frustrated, too.

The only people I'd object to is those who think just firing Brent Venables will suddenly cure all this teams' ills. The problem is simply a lot more complex than that.

Just get rid of all of them then:D
In all honesty though, it's becoming more and more apparent that Venables deserves no credit for the early 2000s defenses. Ever since Mike left, baffling defensive breakdowns in games not named the Big XII championship has become the norm. I don't know whether Venables needs better personnel coaches under him or what, but something needs to be done. No middle linebacker should be torched up the middle like that, backup or not. That's a coaching problem. Crow didn't look like he had ever defended a pass before

[St. Louis Sooner]

i totally agree ... the defensive ills are all a COACHING PROBLEM; there's no other way to explain it; he has the horses, so what is the problem? as long as he is coach of the defense, we do not deserve to be #1 ... unless we back into it via everyone else losing and us playing a weak team in the national championship;

Remember the pasting of Fl State in the orange bowl? we totally shut them down on defense; when was the last time we did that in a big game?

this is getting beyond absurd guys & gals ... the answer to the problem is extremely, painfully obvious;

[BoulderSooner79]

Not to defend any coaches, but before RR goes out, we had given up 13 points on D (plus the KO return). They were averaging 4yds a play and we sacked Colt 4 times and force several other negative plays. After RR went out, it was 8yds/play and we couldn't get them off the field. Now it would have been nice to try something different instead of just plugging in the backup when it didn't work. But is seemed like more a matter of depth than coaching. We knew the LB position was a question coming into the season, let alone depth at LB.

[JLEW1818]

I am tired of being a good team against medicore teams. We have to learn to win the big games again, or we will continue to lose 2-3 games a year. Maybe we need a new defensive coach?

What coach is consistently in the big game and win them consistently

[tulsaoilerfan]

What coach is consistently in the big game and win them consistently

We used to have one that did it; that disappeared against KSU in the 03 Big 12 title game

[Penguin]

There are a **** load of teams in America that would love to have our "problems."

[Curly Bill]

There are a **** load of teams in America that would love to have our "problems."

...but for today at least UTerus isn't one of them. :mad:

[cjones28]

I am tired of being a good team against medicore teams. We have to learn to win the big games again, or we will continue to lose 2-3 games a year. Maybe we need a new defensive coach?

This is so asinine it's unbelievable. Try being a Nebraska fan. Oklahoma is just fine, the Big XII is so loaded it was almost inevitable somebody would come up and bite OU in the ***.

[wishbonesooner]

"This is so asinine it's unbelievable. Try being a Nebraska fan. Oklahoma is just fine, the Big XII is so loaded it was almost inevitable somebody would come up and bite OU in the ***."

Getting beat in Big 12 competition is indeed understandable. Getting our asses lit up for 40 or more points is not. Again, if it was just today's game OK. We get lit up in almost every big game the last several years. That's not a coincidence, that's not just bad luck. We can't depend on our defense anymore.

[josh09]

I am tired of being a good team against medicore teams. We have to learn to win the big games again, or we will continue to lose 2-3 games a year. Maybe we need a new defensive coach?

We beat texas last year, that was a big game. and mizzou TWICE, those were big games. Why cant you just admit that it's not all us, its them? We were beaten by a very good texas team today. We SHOULD have won, but didnt capitalize at certain points when we needed to, whereas texas did. We were up for about 4/5 of that game, but not when it counted. This texas team was good. Yea, our defense got 45 points scored on them, but maybe that was from how good their OFFENSE was. Oh, and they got help from the refs right when momentum had come to us. So please, dont say we "cant win the big game" because we cant exactly win them all you know.

[possumfat]

In the past I always felt in a close game or if we are behind the confidence to come back and win.

I have lost that feeling since 2003 when Mike Stoops left and its simply because we don't play the same level of defense anymore and our record proves it. We have the players but not the intelligence level from coach BV to
play in the close games agaisnt good competition.

TIME FOR A CHANGE OF SOMR TYPE>

[Jdog]

So Missouri was not a big game?

who did they beat last year? - Illinois (clocked in the Rose bowl), Arkansas (third level SEC team with a great running back) and Kansas (good win in the orange)?
Were they really that good?

[mfosterftw]

Why is it every time the faith in our defensive personnel is shaken this movie scene pops into my head?

o9xg5Uup01g

As has been said, a lot of teams wish they had our problems. As someone whose only real Sooner memories are of the dark 90's, I refuse to go off half-cocked at the occasional breakdown. We don't live in Pleasantville, and we're not going to win every game.

[SOONERxWife73]

well on the bright side we can almost count on texas screwing this opportunity up. if ya care to remember we gave them the same chance a couple yrs ago and they still didnt win the south, so.....happy days will be here again. carry on.

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

who did they beat last year? - Illinois (clocked in the Rose bowl), Arkansas (third level SEC team with a great running back) and Kansas (good win in the orange)?
Were they really that good?

They were ranked #1 and it was the Big 12 Freaking Championship game. That is a BIG game.

[PDXsooner]

who did they beat last year? - Illinois (clocked in the Rose bowl), Arkansas (third level SEC team with a great running back) and Kansas (good win in the orange)?
Were they really that good?


is anyone really any good? doesn't everyone suck?

[jdsooner]

Ryan Reynolds getting hurt KILLED The no-call on the interception didn't help either. It will be interesting to see if anyone goes all season without losing.

[HopeSpringsEternal]

They were ranked #1 and it was the Big 12 Freaking Championship game. That is a BIG game.

Hype and media love for an overrated Tiger team with a QB that eats his own snot does not a big game make.

[HopeSpringsEternal]

Ryan Reynolds getting hurt KILLED The no-call on the interception didn't help either. It will be interesting to see if anyone goes all season without losing.

Texas was moving the ball before he got injured. They were finding ways to exploit the defense. RR getting hurt simply expedited the inevitable. With or without him the defense was going to get schooled.

[OUTromBoNado]

What continues to blow my mind is how everybody immediately goes to BV for the blame. Nobody ever throws any on the players. The blame is 50/50. BV is to blame for not making the adjustments. The players are to blame for not executing, whether that's busting coverage, missing tackles, or committing penalties.

That being said, as far as today went, we lost to a very good team guys. There's a reason they are ranked in the Top 5.

[Curly Bill]

What continues to blow my mind is how everybody immediately goes to BV for the blame. Nobody ever throws any on the players. The blame is 50/50. BV is to blame for not making the adjustments. The players are to blame for not executing, whether that's busting coverage, missing tackles, or committing penalties.

That being said, as far as today went, we lost to a very good team guys. There's a reason they are ranked in the Top 5.

True, the players deserve a lot of the blame, but what has been the constant in our recent defensive meltdowns? That would be the DC, and it has been the same issues that have cost us.

[VA Sooner]

We lost to a good team. Flew under the radar and had some weapons, mostly a mobile QB and a very good fifth year senior receiver (Shipley) but really ratcheted their mediocre run game once our middle LB went out. What I didn't realize is that his injury was in the second quarter and he tried to play through a torn ACL in the third quarter. The kid (Reynolds) has heart.

No... losing to number 5 Texas wasn't as bad as losing a kid, and that kid losing his career. We'll bounce back... #3 LSU and #4 Mizzou getting upset tonight certainly helps.

[SoonerGOP]

The problem with this "we can't win the big game" crap is that what WE call big games and what other people consider big games are two different things.

THIS YEAR:
Texas is HUGE game
Tech is BIG game
OSU is HUGE game
Kansas is BIG game
Nebraska is BIG game (especially since they took Tech to OT in Lubbock)

IF we make it there, the Big XII Championship would be a HUGE game and any bowl game played in January is a HUGE game.

Our standards and expectations are simply higher than others because we know we'll win them.

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

Hype and media love for an overrated Tiger team with a QB that eats his own snot does not a big game make.

You can't be serious? OU won the Big 12 CHAMPIONSHIP last year. Why? Because they won the championship game. I'm not any happier with the recent bowl performance than anyone else but short of winning a NC the biggest game OU can win any year is the conference championship game.

I guess it only counts as a big game if we lose it? We beat Texas last year and it wasn't a big game. We lose it this year and we have a thread saying it is.

[Curly Bill]

I guess it only counts as a big game if we lose it? We beat Texas last year and it wasn't a big game. We lose it this year and we have a thread saying it is.

Someone on here said Texas wasn't a big game last year but it was this year? Show me the proof of this.

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

I am tired of being a good team against medicore teams. We have to learn to win the big games again, or we will continue to lose 2-3 games a year. Maybe we need a new defensive coach?

Curly...it is the whole premise of the thread...

Unless we could win them this time last year and can't now? There are really only two ways to interpret it.

[ProdigyDub]

I'm a Horn fan, but this "OU can no longer win the big game" stuff is absolutely bonkers. OU has won plenty of big games over the past few years. They've lost some BCS games, and a few times to really good TX teams, but that's just sports.

I advise Sooner fans not to attribute a few losses in big games to some sort of broader trend. It could very easily be the case that OU wins the next 5 BCS games they make it to--you just never know.

Bob Stoops hasn't lost "it" any more than Mack "would never win the big one" in 2000-2004.

[OklahomaRed]

texass doesn't seem to have any problem firing deffensive coordinators? :D

[OUTromBoNado]

Some of the people on this board have been drinking the ESPN Kool-Aid.

[VA Sooner]

Playback last year's Big 12 Championship... Chase looked the same as he did last night against the Pokes. Defense was amazing last year and that's what we need to keep winning BIG games. Wasn't Mizzou ranked #1 in that game?

We're better as underdogs... play hard, play with heart, and we may get back to the Big 12 CG.

But most importantly, keep playing hard to win every game and Win The Last Game.

[wishbonesooner]

We've lost more than we've won the last five years, however you care to define it. I read boards from other teams around the country from time to time, and I assure you they agree that we've lost the "big game" swagger we used to have. I don't know if it's BV's fault or not. I just wish somebody could figure it out and fix it, whoever or whatever the problem is.

[TUSooner]

If you'd said "can't win EVERY big game," I'd agree. But you didn't, so stop whining.

[Fraggle145]

Well, I figure this thread is as good as any thread to remind people of this:

While I'll admit it's becoming harder to defend BV for these continual instances of giving up 40+ points at least twice a year, I suspect there's nobody on the coaching staff racking their brain more for a solution to all this than BV himself. And right behind him in the brain racking department is Bob Stoops.

That having been said, questioning why these instances keep happening isn't out of bounds. By all means, that's why message boards exist in the first place. I can also certainly understand the frustration that many fans feel over these instances. I'm frustrated, too.

The only people I'd object to is those who think just firing Brent Venables will suddenly cure all this teams' ills. The problem is simply a lot more complex than that.

I'm rooting for Arizona to lose. :O

[GoSoonersGo]

The point to my original post was that we have lost alot of Big Games in recent years, starting with that *ss whipping we took from USC. Everyone talks about Mizzu last year, we all know that even though they were number one during that time last year, they could not beat anyone that was in the top 5, it was a cinderalla story...so over the past several years we beat Missouri, big whoop. This was supposed to be the year we made a run, and now we must count on other people losing to do so. I want us to step up and hit people again in the mouth and say "we are Oklahoma, if you want it you have to take it from us"....and I did not say fire BV we need some new blood on defense that will establish a more intense attitude...or something that would translate onto the field...

[OUmillenium]

I agree

[A-M]

The point to my original post was that we have lost alot of Big Games in recent years, starting with that *ss whipping we took from USC. Everyone talks about Mizzu last year, we all know that even though they were number one during that time last year, they could not beat anyone that was in the top 5, it was a cinderalla story...so over the past several years we beat Missouri, big whoop. This was supposed to be the year we made a run, and now we must count on other people losing to do so. I want us to step up and hit people again in the mouth and say "we are Oklahoma, if you want it you have to take it from us"....and I did not say fire BV we need some new blood on defense that will establish a more intense attitude...or something that would translate onto the field...

As a sooner from the old days (I remember the run of 47 wins and the ND loss very well), I remember when we had this going for us. If you wanted to be a winner, you had to go through us to get there. This is what I do not see us having now and this is what I want us to get back. Don't know what needs to be done to get it back, but I sure do miss it.

[The Maestro]

I'm just sick of the zone defense. Texas knew we were going to give them the underneath stuff and they took it...all day. They knew once RR went down that the middle of the field inside of 10 yards was their's for the taking...and they did it. It's not rocket science.

I guess I prefer a more "gamble" approach to defense. Try some man to man coverage...let the safeties know to be on alert for Shipley and Cosby since that is where Colt goes 90% of the time, have one linebacker drop back into coverage in the middle and send the other 6 to take off the quarterback's head.

Is that so crazy? I'm not an X's and O's guy, but bending without breaking and giving up 38 points cannot be considered a successful approach...especially when the other team (along with all the other teams on the schedule) know that is what we are going to do.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Brent Venables is fine. What isn't fine is the secondary and defensive ends coaching.

It doesn't show up against worthless teams like Baylor and Tennesee-Chattanooga. But, it does when we're playing teams with equal athletes.

Quit picking on Venables. He's not the guy who won't realize BJW is a better DE than Secondary coach. He's also not the guy who doesn't see we get no consistent pass rush from our ends against big time schools.

Can Wilson, move Wright back to DE coach, and hire a secondary coach so we can win a national title again.

Cover and tackle.

[Curly Bill]

Brent Venables is fine. What isn't fine is the secondary and defensive ends coaching.

It doesn't show up against worthless teams like Baylor and Tennesee-Chattanooga. But, it does when we're playing teams with equal athletes.

Quit picking on Venables. He's not the guy who won't realize BJW is a better DE than Secondary coach. He's also not the guy who doesn't see we get no consistent pass rush from our ends against big time schools.

Can Wilson, move Wright back to DE coach, and hire a secondary coach so we can win a national title again.

Cover and tackle.

BV is in charge of the overall defense including that mushy-soft zone defense our secondary plays. He's the one responsible for coming up with the terribly predictable and easily blocked blitz's we run. He's definitely the one that should be canned.

[The Maestro]

This game was the 6th time since a certain Orange Bowl that an opponent has scored 40 or more on us. So about once every 8 games we are seeing a 40 spot on the opponents scoreboard.

Just wondering if the game has changed so much that it is hard to defend. Just blows that are offense goes flat when our defense does, too. We had 28 points with 12 minutes to go in the third and only scored 7 more the rest of the way.

I know the game has changed, but Switzer's teams didn't give up more than 28 his last six years. Even those Miami teams were held to under 30.

If defense wins championships....???

[Position Limit]

it's not so much losing big games as much as it is the way they lose them. teams are hanging half a hundred on us. it would be one thing if we lost 13-7 or something. but when a good team finds the weakness in this defense they just go after it over and over and over. this defense cannot straight up win a game if it's on the line. zero attitude and no leadership. if it comes down to the last 2 minutes and the opposing team has the ball and must drive 80 yards to win the game, our defense will never stop them. EVER!!! after ou punted the ball to texas the last time with us down by 3, i got up and left the watch party and headed home. it was a done deal. no way in hell was that defense gonna stop texas. we play great at home, and choke on the road. colt made our defensive ends look fat and slow. embarrassing. anytime this team faces any adversity they choke. they just cannot close the deal. i put it squarely on the defense.

[GoSoonersGo]

I wish we knew what adustments were made during the course of the game...to me that is what is missing. It almost seems that we are arrogant in our approach to the game, at least defensivly. Also, since when did RR become our best defensive player in which if he goes down our defense is no longer legit. But someone else made the point...we seem to lose all of our faculties about every half dozen games or so and get whipped. Final thought...I think we all have seen a pattern here with our team and we are just tired of seeing it play out every season. We need to win a big game again...soon.