Still happy?

[OU_Sooners75]

With BV?

Another great defensive scheme we put together today!

[PDXsooner]

i'll agree it was a bad defensive performance. who would you hire if you fired venables?

[Newbomb Turk]

we were toast once Reynolds went out.

[RADsooner]

losing reynolds I think hurts more than we think.

[Rogue]

Nope, not "happy."
And not satisfied either.

I think the D was doing well enough to win this game before RR went down though.

And they were completely demoralized by a few calls.

The scheme wasn't near as bad as the execution and tackling.
That's what hurts.

[Curly Bill]

Haven't been happy with BV since Mike left.

Another big game, another 40+ points given up. Color me less then shocked.

[Jack T.]

Haven't been happy with BV since Mike left.

Another big game, another 40+ points given up. Color me less then shocked.

Big +1.

[wishbonesooner]

Not one bit of improvement over what WVU did to us. We're pissing away some really special chances to win #8 with this defense. Good teams figure us out, and move the ball at will. BV has no clue how to stop it.

[Indy Sooner]

Haven't been happy with BV since Mike left.

Another big game, another 40+ points given up. Color me less then shocked.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Really it was only 38 today, but what is the difference?

How many more losses in big games, thanks to an overrated defense, will it take for the head coach to figure out this charlatan is not the answer?

[jbstrick]

LOL. You whiners kill me. It was a great game. If you cant see it for what it is, then that is your problem.

[possumfat]

we do see it for what it is.................lack of Defense which falls on the shoulders of BV. Good teams know how to adjust agaisnt us.

[nBoSTP]

The big problem I seen today was a lack of a consistent pass rush. I dont care if we have Deion Sanders back in coverage the WR's will get open with the rush our D line gets. I dont understand it either because all the "experts" say how great our D Line is.

[TXBOOMER]

Ryan Reynolds getting hurt cost OUr D more than the scheme. I am more disappointed in the fact that there is such a huge drop off in talent between 1st and 2nd team. With Ryan's injury history we should have had the back-up better prepared.

[OU_Sooners75]

LOL. You whiners kill me. It was a great game. If you cant see it for what it is, then that is your problem.

WTFRU?

And if you are satisified losing in the fashion as we did today..then you are truly an idiot!

Anytime we put up 35+ points, we should be able to win the game.

Lets look at this way....

Last 2 big games we have played (and we can go bacak to 2004 if you would like)....

45 + 48 = 93
93/2 = 46.5 points/game we have allowed in the last two big games!

Texas is a good team no doubt. I don't think any of us here thought they were not. But they are not that overpowering and should have been put out fo the game in the second quarter.

Oh and the second quarter. That is the quarter we have really sucked in defensively! We have allowed most of the points scored agaisnt us this season in the second quarter.

Let's face it. BV gave us yet another Gem.

There is a reason other colleges are not knocking his door down to hire him.

[Curly Bill]

LOL. You whiners kill me. It was a great game. If you cant see it for what it is, then that is your problem.

LOL. You can pull your head out of the sand now, or wherever else you might have it. If you're satisfied with giving up over 40 points in another big game then that is your problem.

[JLEW1818]

All I'm saying is our defense is not working, it has not been working at all, recently. I don't know if BV is the total problem

BUT ITS FREAKING TIME TO TRY SOMETHING NEW.

[tulsaoilerfan]

USC 55
Boise 43
WVA 48
Texas 45
KSU 35
Texas Tech 34

Folks, we have been a top 5 program in 03, 04, 06, 07, and 08; during this time frame we have lost 10 games total; in 6 of them we have given up 30+, and 4 of them have been 40+;i know not every score in those 6 games was on the defense, but still, how much more of this do we have to see ? This game was an utter failure by the WHOLE coaching staff with BV leading the way

[TripleOption14]

Reynolds going out was paramount!!! If look at where Texass starting getting there big plays it was right in the middle of the field. The same spot where Reynolds left was exploited like a b@stard. Which is just good coaching on texass' part.

[Remembering Tom Stidham]

We had not been playing good defense before Reynolds went out

[Sabanball]

You guys would be crazy to get rid of Venables. You all have plenty of good athletes on D, but there on the field too much and their winded by the time the fourth qtr arrives.

I actually think your total lack of a running game and lack of balance on O is your biggest problem. The old axiom that" if you can run the ball AND stop the run you will win almost every time" still holds true. Your fast break offense doesn't eat enough clock and your defense is on the field too much. A good running game would change that.

[JLEW1818]

Our blitzing by the linebackers was absolutely worthless and got burnt every time.

[The Maestro]

Agreed with all of this. I like BV the person. He ain't a head coach...why?

Holding a team to 45 while our QB goes for 379 and 5 TD's...disappointing.

[MALE918]

we have a number of holes. special teams - gave up a td when we were on the verge of really starting the hurt, no run game - once we got ahead we couldn't shorten quarters, defense - alot of talent that is not utilized to it's full potential, playing bend don't break takes aggression out of team.

to the point of special teams, when a game starts to look like it's moving into our control - we slack expecting teams to fold somewhat and they usually do. that's the team as a whole-not the whole team at once, obviously but some aspect does. just an interesting observation over a couple of years

another observation - our teams like to hit people in the mouth, the problem is when we get hit back - we don't fold but we don't like it either. some people and teams like that hit, they take it in and use it.

all things being equal we are the better team; however, great teams win despite a lack of equallity.

the lack of a running game is embarassing; we cannot demoralize anyone, we cannot impose will, we cannot run clock when needed, we cannot wear teams out, it moves us into the realm of finesse and not power.

[PLaw]

Texas is a good team no doubt. I don't think any of us here thought they were not. But they are not that overpowering and should have been put out fo the game in the second quarter.[/QUOTE]

Good, but not great. They have no running game. Another bust on kickoff coverage, a defense that got wore out because our offense could not run any clock, and some stupid penalties.

Shake it off - there's a lot of football to be played. Our offense just needs to realize that they are going to have to put up more than 7 TD's in a big game.

BOOMER

[LesNessman]

You guys would be crazy to get rid of Venables. You all have plenty of good athletes on D, but there on the field too much and their winded by the time the fourth qtr arrives.

I actually think your total lack of a running game and lack of balance on O is your biggest problem. The old axiom that" if you can run the ball AND stop the run you will win almost every time" still holds true. Your fast break offense doesn't eat enough clock and your defense is on the field too much. A good running game would change that.

Exactly right. Those guys were probably gassed by early in the 4th. Part of that though was what, 4 or 5 first downs by penalty? Granted the two PF on McCoy were very qustionable, especially the 2nd (it was definitley a dive--they did get a call back on the punter in the 3rd Q however), but it's on the D to avoid those. Why on earth is he even touching the guy out of bounds?
2 offsides in a row in absolutely pathetic as well. OU scoring drives were good, but no running game really does not give the D time to recoup, I think.

You'd think with that giant O-line, they would love to flatten people with the run, but it just ain't happening this year. It's inexplicable.

As for Texas, McCoy played inspired. He shredded the middle with short passes, and timely rushing calls, and their long drives were the key. The OU D was just wasted on the last 2 UT drives. UT defense was still fresh late in the game and stepped it up.

Hate it, but that's how I see it.

[bcgvh]

I actually think your total lack of a running game and lack of balance on O is your biggest problem. The old axiom that" if you can run the ball AND stop the run you will win almost every time" still holds true. Your fast break offense doesn't eat enough clock and your defense is on the field too much. A good running game would change that.

That is a good point, but still, our defense sucks plain and simple. Everybody was talking about how we had a championship defense this year, and this game proved that we do not. And don't think it ends here guys, at OSU is going to be a nightmare. Texas Tech is going to give us some serious problems too, but at least that one's at home. We blow it every year now, but at least we used to beat Texas. I think a big problem is the fact that our coaching staff controls the players emotions too much.

[OU_Sooners75]

All I'm saying is our defense is not working, it has not been working at all, recently. I don't know if BV is the total problem

BUT ITS FREAKING TIME TO TRY SOMETHING NEW.

It starts with BV. if he is not willing to change things up. then we need someone else.

Biggest question.

Texas killed us in the middle of the field right?

Well, why not play a cloud zone or a shallow cover 3 or 4? instead of that pathetic *** cover 2!

[MALE918]

You all have plenty of good athletes on D, but there on the field too much and their winded by the time the fourth qtr arrives.

This is partially true. If a team goes 3 and out on 2 consecutive drives a defense can still hold a team and not be on the field very long but when the d let's the other team drive 80 and 65 yards for a touchdown then the time on the field starts adding up.

we gave up 20 at the half and 30 by the end of the 3rd quarter. the d is not winded at that point. winded was the 15 in the 4th. this game was lost by not imposing will and letting the opposition gain confidence in the first 3 quarters. then in the 4th they just closed us out.

[JLEW1818]

It starts with BV. if he is not willing to change things up. then we need someone else.

Biggest question.

Texas killed us in the middle of the field right?

Well, why not play a cloud zone or a shallow cover 3 or 4? instead of that pathetic *** cover 2!

BOB STOOPS SHOULD JUST TAKE OVER. IF ANYBODY THINKS BV IS A BETTER DC THEN BOB PLEASE FILL FREE TO DISAGREE WITHE ME.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Giving up an 89 yard drive after going up 8 is totally inexcusable with the talent we have on defense

[OU_Sooners75]

Reynolds going out was paramount!!! If look at where Texass starting getting there big plays it was right in the middle of the field. The same spot where Reynolds left was exploited like a b@stard. Which is just good coaching on texass' part.

Texas was scoring at will with Reynolds in the game. Yes, losing him stinks. However it was not the cause of th collapse.

Also, if it is due to losing Reynolds...Are you saying we do not have talent or depth at MLB? I know the answer to that. We really don't. So that leads me to this question.

Without a MLB is out Defenseive talent not good enough to switch up base defenses, trying to shore up the weakest link?

One last question. The coaches knew we were lacking at teh LB spot, even before Lofton left. So why are we not gunning for more LBs?

[OU_Sooners75]

Today's defensive performance made me realize what Texas Tech fans go through on defense every Saturday!

[Johnny Utah]

You guys would be crazy to get rid of Venables. You all have plenty of good athletes on D, but there on the field too much and their winded by the time the fourth qtr arrives.

I actually think your total lack of a running game and lack of balance on O is your biggest problem. The old axiom that" if you can run the ball AND stop the run you will win almost every time" still holds true. Your fast break offense doesn't eat enough clock and your defense is on the field too much. A good running game would change that.

"Better listen to him, Flounder, he's in pre-med."

[tigepilot]

Reynolds going out was paramount!!! If look at where Texass starting getting there big plays it was right in the middle of the field. The same spot where Reynolds left was exploited like a b@stard. Which is just good coaching on texass' part.

+1

Having torn an ACL, I knew by what they were doing and result of what they doing that it was a torn ACL. Given how much people had talked up his importance to the D I felt at that time Texas was going to be able to win this game. Until that point, OU WAS outscoring Texas and a scoring fest is what everyone was expecting.

That being said, I'm am troubled that ANY offense can score more than 30 points on an OU D even with backups in. Something does need to change.

[bcgvh]

We need to hire a defensive coach from the SEC.

[Johnny Utah]

We need to hire a defensive coach from the SEC.

"Better listen to him, Flounder, he's in pre-med."

[meoveryouxinfinity]

YOU CAN'T BLAME THE DEFENSE. On the whole, at least. They were out on the field the entire day. Anyone have official time of possession records? That is the downfall of the no huddle. While we sometimes let the play clock run down to the waning seconds, we usually do not eat too much time off on offense. We thrive on big plays. We have two scoring modes: fast and super fast. It was bound to catch up with us. If we could run the ball in the no huddle, I think it would equalize this problem. We are backing our defense into a corner with this offense though...that...and the special teams play. All in all, our defense gave up some big plays that killed the game. But in the first, they were being more physical than we've seen them be since the Mike years. They got gassed. Simple as that. They stopped hitting guys and started trying to shove or push them down for a tackle. With Texas, that didn't work so well.

[meoveryouxinfinity]

We need to hire a defensive coach from the SEC.

Hire Kines.

[Curly Bill]

YOU CAN'T BLAME THE DEFENSE. On the whole, at least. They were out on the field the entire day.

A good way to get off the field is to stop the other team. If you let the other team drive the ball 80-90 yards, yes you are going to be out there a lot.

[Curly Bill]

YOU CAN'T BLAME THE DEFENSE.

We gave up 45 points, even with taking away the 7 from special teams, that's still 38 points. Whom should we blame?

[bcgvh]

We should blame the offense for only scoring 35. ;)

[Johnny Utah]

YOU CAN'T BLAME THE DEFENSE. On the whole, at least. They were out on the field the entire day. Anyone have official time of possession records? That is the downfall of the no huddle. While we sometimes let the play clock run down to the waning seconds, we usually do not eat too much time off on offense. We thrive on big plays. We have two scoring modes: fast and super fast. It was bound to catch up with us. If we could run the ball in the no huddle, I think it would equalize this problem. We are backing our defense into a corner with this offense though...that...and the special teams play. All in all, our defense gave up some big plays that killed the game. But in the first, they were being more physical than we've seen them be since the Mike years. They got gassed. Simple as that. They stopped hitting guys and started trying to shove or push them down for a tackle. With Texas, that didn't work so well.

Agreed ... it's the entire body of work. OU needs more than just a quick strike offense to beat the really good teams. A consistent run game that wears down/demoralizes the opposing D helps the whole team.

[PDXsooner]

i don't remember historically feeling like if one player goes out, it costs us a game. championship teams suffer injuries and find ways to over come (see: aikman/holieway)

[Widescreen]

YOU CAN'T BLAME THE DEFENSE. On the whole, at least. They were out on the field the entire day. Anyone have official time of possession records?

UT 37:10
OU 22:50

That's amazing. They had the ball a whole quarter of the game more than we did.

[Johnny Utah]

A good way to get off the field is to stop the other team. If you let the other team drive the ball 80-90 yards, yes you are going to be out there a lot.

A good way and the best way. However, even if you get the ball back on offense, score fast, then send your defense back out on to field, won't that cycle wear your defense down at some point?

[Curly Bill]

A good way and the best way. However, even if you get the ball back on offense, score fast, then send your defense back out on to field, won't that cycle wear your defense down at some point?

Not if they keep getting stops. They can go back out there often if it's only for a handful of plays at at time. What wears down a defense is not how often they're out there, but when they get out there and can't get off the field because the other team is punking their ***.

[meoveryouxinfinity]

A good way to get off the field is to stop the other team. If you let the other team drive the ball 80-90 yards, yes you are going to be out there a lot.

They were doing this before halftime.
First Quarter

Texas at 12:17 TEX OKLA
1st and 10 at TEX 34 Colt McCoy pass complete to Quan Cosby for 5 yards to the Texas 39. 0 7
2nd and 5 at TEX 39 Chris Ogbonnaya rush for 1 yard to the Texas 40.
3rd and 4 at TEX 40 Oklahoma penalty 5 yard offside defense accepted.
1st and 10 at TEX 45 John Chiles rush for 1 yard to the Texas 46.
2nd and 9 at TEX 46 Colt McCoy pass complete to Jordan Shipley for 16 yards to the Okla 38 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at OKLA 38 Chris Ogbonnaya rush for 3 yards to the Okla 35.
2nd and 7 at OKLA 35 Colt McCoy pass complete to Quan Cosby for 25 yards to the Okla 10, Oklahoma penalty pass interference declined for a 1ST down.
1st and Goal at OKLA 10 Chris Ogbonnaya rush for 3 yards to the Okla 7.
2nd and Goal at OKLA 7 Colt McCoy pass complete to Jordan Shipley for no gain to the Okla 7.
3rd and Goal at OKLA 7 Colt McCoy sacked for a loss of 2 yards to the Okla 9.
4th and Goal at OKLA 9 Hunter Lawrence 26 yard field goal GOOD. 3 7
DRIVE TOTALS: Texas drive: 10 plays 57 yards, 05:36 Texas FG

Texas at 5:05 TEX OKLA
1st and 10 at TEX 39 Colt McCoy pass incomplete. 3 7
2nd and 10 at TEX 39 Colt McCoy pass complete to Quan Cosby for 12 yards to the Okla 49 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at OKLA 49 Colt McCoy rush for a loss of 3 yards, fumbled, recovered by Texas Colt McCoy at the Texas 48.
2nd and 13 at TEX 48 Colt McCoy pass complete to Brandon Collins for 4 yards to the Okla 48.
3rd and 9 at OKLA 48 Oklahoma penalty 5 yard offside accepted.
3rd and 4 at OKLA 43 Colt McCoy pass incomplete.
4th and 4 at OKLA 43 Texas penalty 5 yard false start accepted.
4th and 9 at OKLA 48 John Gold punt for 48 yards for a touchback.
DRIVE TOTALS: Texas drive: 5 plays 13 yards, 02:50 Texas PUNT

Texas at 1:33 TEX OKLA
1st and 10 at TEX 41 Colt McCoy pass incomplete. 3 7
2nd and 10 at TEX 41 Colt McCoy sacked for a loss of 13 yards to the Texas 41, Texas penalty 0 yard intentional grounding accepted.
3rd and 23 at TEX 28 Colt McCoy pass complete to Chris Ogbonnaya for 10 yards to the Texas 38.
4th and 13 at TEX 38 John Gold punt for 36 yards, fair catch by Ryan Broyles at the Okla 26.
DRIVE TOTALS: Texas drive: 3 plays -3 yards, 01:03 Texas PUNT

Second Quarter


Texas at 10:25 TEX OKLA
1st and 10 at TEX 20 John Chiles rush for no gain to the Texas 20. 10 21
2nd and 10 at TEX 20 Oklahoma penalty 5 yard offside accepted.
2nd and 5 at TEX 25 Oklahoma penalty 5 yard offside accepted.
1st and 10 at TEX 30 Chris Ogbonnaya rush for a loss of 1 yard to the Texas 29.
2nd and 11 at TEX 29 Colt McCoy pass complete to Jordan Shipley for 11 yards to the Texas 40 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at TEX 40 Colt McCoy pass complete to Jordan Shipley for 14 yards to the Okla 46 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at OKLA 46 Colt McCoy rush for no gain to the Okla 46.
2nd and 10 at OKLA 46 Colt McCoy pass complete to Quan Cosby for 11 yards to the Okla 35 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at OKLA 35 Colt McCoy rush for 9 yards to the Okla 26.
2nd and 1 at OKLA 26 Chris Ogbonnaya rush for a loss of 1 yard to the Okla 27.
3rd and 2 at OKLA 27 Colt McCoy pass complete to Quan Cosby for 19 yards to the Okla 8 for a 1ST down.
1st and Goal at OKLA 8 Colt McCoy pass complete to Quan Cosby for 5 yards to the Okla 3.
2nd and Goal at OKLA 3 Colt McCoy pass complete to Jordan Shipley for 2 yards to the Okla 1.
3rd and Goal at OKLA 1 Cody Johnson rush for 1 yard for a TOUCHDOWN. 16 21
Hunter Lawrence extra point GOOD. 17 21
Justin Tucker kickoff for 70 yards returned by DeMarco Murray for 27 yards to the Okla 27.
DRIVE TOTALS: Texas drive: 12 plays 80 yards, 06:44 Texas TD

Texas at 2:59 TEX OKLA
1st and 10 at TEX 33 Colt McCoy pass complete to Quan Cosby for 36 yards to the Okla 31 for a 1ST down. 17 21
1st and 10 at OKLA 31 Colt McCoy sacked for a loss of 4 yards to the Okla 35.
2nd and 14 at OKLA 35 Oklahoma penalty 15 yard roughing passer accepted.
1st and 10 at OKLA 20 Chris Ogbonnaya rush for 3 yards to the Okla 17.
2nd and 7 at OKLA 17 Colt McCoy pass incomplete.
3rd and 7 at OKLA 17 Colt McCoy pass complete to Chris Ogbonnaya for 1 yard to the Okla 16.
4th and 6 at OKLA 16 Timeout TEXAS, clock 00:03.
4th and 6 at OKLA 16 Hunter Lawrence 33 yard field goal GOOD. 20 21

[wishbonesooner]

If it was just today's game, it would be different. It's not just coincidence any longer. It's a fact. We can't stop good teams consistently. We're getting beaten every year by not getting stops when the game is on the line. Bob Stoops made his reputation on defense. I can't believe he lets this go on. I know Bob cares, but he's called Big Choke Bob nowadays, not Big Game Bob. I guess if he doesn't mind that, then this will continue.

[Spray]

Happy? Short term-no. Long term- yes. The season will play out ane we will be a happy bunch.

[Johnny Utah]

I'm more of an offensive (does that sound right?) then defensive guy (you need to be smarter to play D). Besides firing BV, what do you all think some of the answers are?

[JLEW1818]

We only won the first quarter, they out scored us in every other quarter, might sound obvious, but still...

[JLEW1818]

I'm more of an offensive (does that sound right?) then defensive guy (you need to be smarter to play D). Besides firing BV, what do you all think some of the answers are?

There is no answer but BV needs to step aside, we just need to try new things.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Firing BV isn't necessarily the answer.

Coming to the realization that the Tampa 2 can, does, and will often get beat, hence why using it as base coverage is good, bringing that as the only egg in your basket and mixing it up not by changing coverage packages but by bringing an occasional blitz or rotating a safety up for run support does not a successful defense make.

[stoopified]

WSith Reynolds BV looks much better at DC,without him you have the second half of todays game.

[cheezyq]

Haven't been happy with BV since Mike left.

Another big game, another 40+ points given up. Color me less then shocked.

CB, I'm with you 99.9% of the time when it comes to BV, and this is that .1% that I think I'm going to disagree.

The scheme wasn't a problem this week. UT had a very tough time scoring or moving the ball until RR left. And let's face it, as much as I dislike her, Colt McCoy played a hell of a game. We had 3 bogus calls that extended 2 drives and flat gave UT another 3 points by making the wrong call on the INT by LRob. One of their TDs was obviously not the D's fault (the KO return). If any of those are bad calls are called correctly, momentum swings our way and I think we finish the game off.

My only complaint about the D was the 2 big plays given up in the running game. Other than that, they were stout until RR left.

Not that I'm defending BV completely. I still think we need a guy simply for game-planning and coordinating the 3 levels of the D. We need a guy who can make in-game adjustments and figure out how to put pressure on the offense without bringing the extra man. We don't do stunts or move guys around on the DL, and it would be nice to throw some zone-blitzes into our package as well. We are, and always have been since MS left, a vanilla defense that relies simply on the athleticism/speed of our players. That's great, until we face a team that has the athletes to match up or smarts to draw us out of place.

[JLEW1818]

IT DOES NOT MATTER BRADFORD THREW FOR 5 TD'S !!!! 5 !!!
AND WE LOST BY 10 ???? HOW IS IT NOT BV?

With BV as the DC we will continue to have these debates and these type losses. I think that freaking Wilson could call just as good of a defense of game, as Brent can.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

We don't do stunts or move guys around on the DL, and it would be nice to throw some zone-blitzes into our package as well.

Sure we do. We stunt a lot. In some games, too much. We also zone blitz. We don't as much as we used to with Ah You and Big Larry Birdine, but we still zone blitz. But both circumstances, there's a time and a place.

[sooner13f]

I dont think I have ever typed a negative remark about OU football in my life, so this is not easy. I am starting to buy into some the BV remarks. Texas played a great game, but OU gives up too many points when playing these big games. If you would of told me yesterday that Sam would throw 5 TD in this game I would of bet my paycheck on a win. Texas killed us in the middle when RR went out but if history holds true look for OU to tighten up the D and look good the rest of the year..Now we just need some help from Mizzou and TT.

[Curly Bill]

IT DOES NOT MATTER BRADFORD THREW FOR 5 TD'S !!!! 5 !!!
AND WE LOST BY 10 ???? HOW IS IT NOT BV?

With BV as the DC we will continue to have these debates and these type losses. I think that freaking Wilson could call just as good of a defense of game, as Brent can.

harump, harump, harump... give this man some SPEK

I did. :D

[Curly Bill]

I dont think I have ever typed a negative remark about OU football in my life, so this is not easy. I am starting to buy into some the BV remarks. Texas played a great game, but OU gives up too many points when playing these big games. If you would of told me yesterday that Sam would throw 5 TD in this game I would of bet my paycheck on a win. Texas killed us in the middle when RR went out but if history holds true look for OU to tighten up the D and look good the rest of the year..Now we just need some help from Mizzou and TT.

Actually...we seem to have at least two of these games a year where our D looks overmatched. :(

[Since71ASooner4Life]

I'm not smart enough to judge the performance of a defensive coordinator at a major college program like OU - I'm just the clown who sits in front of the TV on Saturday and once in a while is lucky enough to go to the games.

But I do know that it is not possible to judge how good a team is, or more importantly, to see their weaknesses until they go up against a top tier opponent like we did today. Granted, we do have a few marquee talents on defense, but it is mostly a young defense. And with that, there were definitely question makes coming into this year, which appeared to be answered by their performances against the first 5 opponents.

But what do we know for sure about the talent level compared to Texas's offense based on those 5 games? (let's not forget this was a Texas team putting up the same offensive numbers we were). I guess I could conclude today was the Defensive Coordinator's fault if I was sure the we had as much talent as we all wanted to believe we did after those 5 games, but I'm not so sure.

Since 2005, Texas has had great recruiting classes - probably 2nd only to USC. We've had a couple of bigtime recruits like McCoy and Granger on defense, but overall we've been having to make it happen with the 3 and 4 star guys while Texas has been fielding teams with 4 and 5 star talents like Sergio Kindle. Same deal on the offensive side too. On paper, there is every reason to believe that they should be better than us. Maybe talent just won today.

It's a long season and much can happen. Texas has a brutal schedule ahead and who knows - they could have two losses three weeks from now. We just have to bounce back and win the rest.

[JLEW1818]

Fu*k my life!

[JLEW1818]

I'm not smart enough to judge the performance of a defensive coordinator at a major college program like OU - I'm just the clown who sits in front of the TV on Saturday and once in a while is lucky enough to go to the games.

But I do know that it is not possible to judge how good a team is, or more importantly, to see their weaknesses until they go up against a top tier opponent like we did today. Granted, we do have a few marquee talents on defense, but it is mostly a young defense. And with that, there were definitely question makes coming into this year, which appeared to be answered by their performances against the first 5 opponents.

But what do we know for sure about the talent level compared to Texas's offense based on those 5 games? (let's not forget this was a Texas team putting up the same offensive numbers we were). I guess I could conclude today was the Defensive Coordinator's fault if I was sure the we had as much talent as we all wanted to believe we did after those 5 games, but I'm not so sure.

Since 2005, Texas has had great recruiting classes - probably 2nd only to USC. We've had a couple of bigtime recruits like McCoy and Granger on defense, but overall we've been having to make it happen with the 3 and 4 star guys while Texas has been fielding teams with 4 and 5 star talents like Sergio Kindle. Same deal on the offensive side too. On paper, there is every reason to believe that they should be better than us. Maybe talent just won today.

It's a long season and much can happen. Texas has a brutal schedule ahead and who knows - they could have two losses three weeks from now. We just have to bounce back and win the rest.


Ya but since 2005 season, how many BCS appearances does Texas have?

[cheezyq]

Sure we do. We stunt a lot. In some games, too much. We also zone blitz. We don't as much as we used to with Ah You and Big Larry Birdine, but we still zone blitz. But both circumstances, there's a time and a place.

No, not really. Maybe we'll once in a while, but generally we just send our DL straight up the field. And we blitz, but we don't zone blitz...period.

[Since71ASooner4Life]

Ya but since 2005 season, how many BCS appearances does Texas have?

Maybe better coaching with less talent has been the difference?

[Curly Bill]

Maybe better coaching with less talent has been the difference?

Better coaching on the offensive side of the ball = yes.

Better coaching on the defensive side of the ball = no!

Talking about OU here ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

[OUmillenium]

Curly Bill and I have been saying it for a while now. Too much zone + poor in game adjustments. Venables is average at best.

With the talent OU has, nobody should score 40 + on us.

35 should be enough to beat anybody...if we really have a "good defense."

Did any of our coaches watch a tape of last year's game?

[Since71ASooner4Life]

Better coaching on the offensive side of the ball = yes.

Better coaching on the defensive side of the ball = no!

Talking about OU here ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.


I'm just as unhappy as you are Bill, just not knowledgeable enough to be sure BV isn't getting the most out of his players given the circumstances. Defense played pretty well against Missouri twice last year and everybody thought he was God.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

No, not really. Maybe we'll once in a while, but generally we just send our DL straight up the field. And we blitz, but we don't zone blitz...period.

That's just wrong. I've seen it first hand. It ain't often, but we do. If memory serves, Auston English even defensed a pass against... TCU? Off the top of my head, so I'm not sure.

Besides, you don't WANT To bring lots of zone blitz. We brought lots of cutesy looks like that last year when the D-front was so **** poor, strictly to help support the run. It's cute, it's neat for a change-up, that's it.

[Curly Bill]

I'm just as unhappy as you are Bill, just not knowledgeable enough to be sure BV isn't getting the most out of his players given the circumstances. Defense played pretty well against Missouri twice last year and everybody thought he was God.

Not everybody! ;)

[OU_Sooners75]

Happy? Short term-no. Long term- yes. The season will play out ane we will be a happy bunch.

Until our next big game with a good offense.

Oh wait...that happens next week.

Of course, it will be in Norman, thank God!

BV is about as good as John Blake when it comes to big games and it is not just this year.


I have bitten my cheek long enough. Trying to give the man the benefit of the doubt. But when we ahre allowing over 30 points per game against opponents in what is considered big games under his reign, that is very unacceptable.

maybe you like losing like we have been in the BCS Bowls and Some other big games...But I don't.

And there has been one common denominator in all these horrendous losses....
Brent Venerables!

[OU_Sooners75]

I'm just as unhappy as you are Bill, just not knowledgeable enough to be sure BV isn't getting the most out of his players given the circumstances. Defense played pretty well against Missouri twice last year and everybody thought he was God.

Not everyone. And certainly not anyone when we got embarassed by West Virginia.

[Curly Bill]

I'm still waiting for those posters that thought it was cute to post "fire Venables" as a gag the past several weeks when we were kicking in the lungs of the weak sisters to stand up for their man now.

[Bosley]

Can we not argue about whose fault it is that we lost, and just drink heavily for a few days?

Cheers.

I'm in Washington DC but I still find solace in the fact that I'm not a brain washed Texan, and have never had to memorize the Texas pledge of allegiance.

[GrapevineSooner]

Stunned cute Tech fan...


Oh, wrong thread. :D

[OU_Sooners75]

So what are you happy about Olevet?

Is it the greatness that we show against overmatched teams like Cincy, Baylor, UTC, Washington? Or is it that we have been embarassed in more big games since Mike Stoops has been in Tucson, than we have won?

I love Stoops as a coach....But he as a coach of 1996 would be kicking his own *** right now by the pure fact that our defense has been suspect a lot under BV!

[achiro]

THe other d-coordinator had several first year starters on d and a few freshman that kept OUr recievers busy enough(including a true freshman on Gresham) that Sam had nobody to throw to.

Just sayin...

[OU_Sooners75]

THe other d-coordinator had several first year starters on d and a few freshman that kept OUr recievers busy enough(including a true freshman on Gresham) that Sam had nobody to throw to.

Just sayin...

But Venerables is a great defensive coach!

I think he is a helluva position coach and is a smart coach. However, like in business, not everyone makes great managers.

[SoonerShark]

Defense played pretty well against Missouri twice last year and everybody thought he was God.

Against arguably the best QB in the nation, Chase Daniels, we play great. But Colt McCoy lit us up even in his down year. Also, Colt McCoy has been nothing but classy when discussing OU as an opponent since he has been in Austin, including today in his post game interview that I heard after I got back to the hotel after the game since I wanted to avoid listening to Texas fans. Of course, had we won our fans would have been just as bad as college aged UT fans.

We need Missouri and Tech to light up UT and we need to hold serve the rest of the year.

[Spray]

Until our next big game with a good offense.

Oh wait...that happens next week.

Of course, it will be in Norman, thank God!

BV is about as good as John Blake when it comes to big games and it is not just this year.


I have bitten my cheek long enough. Trying to give the man the benefit of the doubt. But when we ahre allowing over 30 points per game against opponents in what is considered big games under his reign, that is very unacceptable.

maybe you like losing like we have been in the BCS Bowls and Some other big games...But I don't.

And there has been one common denominator in all these horrendous losses....
Brent Venerables!

Well, there's another common denominator- Bob Stoops. And he's ultimately responsible. So are our annual Top 20 defenses good enough, or do you point the finger at Stoops for keeping BV and send them both packing together? I know several on this board aren't afraid to lump Bob in on this one- what about you? Personally, I think the state of college football today bit our *** in Dallas, not coaching. **** happens, and we got a big ole helping today. Tastes like chicken.

And, no, I don't like losing, but I don't feel it necessary to fire a group of coaches who have won 100+ games in 10 years. Defenses get toasted nowadays- its the way it is. You need to be prepared to outscore your oppponent when those Saturdays happen.

And Tech just beat Nebraska.

[OUmillenium]

Can we not argue about whose fault it is that we lost, and just drink heavily for a few days?

Cheers.

I'm in Washington DC but I still find solace in the fact that I'm not a brain washed Texan, and have never had to memorize the Texas pledge of allegiance.

I don't drink and there's no argument...

It is clearly Venables crappy Defense's fault...
+ the crappy refs
+ our stinky special teams
+ Colt was great
+ Mack had his magic invisible lucky charm clapping gloves on today - those are illegal by NCAA rules - only grey Nike gloves allowed
+ we only scored 35 points

[SoonerJack]

Still happy.

[birddog]

Our blitzing by the linebackers was absolutely worthless and got burnt every time.

and not only that, when we did blitz we didn't even hint at disguising it. same, totally predictable blitz every third down.

[Curly Bill]

and not only that, when we did blitz we didn't even hint at disguising it. same, totally predictable blitz every third down.

Same totally predictable blitz's every year.

[HopeSpringsEternal]

Vulnerables is a guy when asked if he felt vindicated by playing decently against ugly teams responded that he wasn't a vindictive guy so vindicated wasn't a word he'd use to describe himself. That's not showing a lot of brain power folks. The fact of the matter is that he's in over his head. I said three games ago they'd lose at least 2 games this year. I've said all along they'd never win a NC with this current staff. It's the same thing year in and year out. Burying your head and blaming another **** fest defensive performance on being "gassed" or losing RR is absurd homerish behavior. The D has been making the same damn mistakes they've been making all along. The only difference has been in the lack of competition and the talent capable of taking advantage of it. It's time for Vulnerables to hit the road or be demoted to the assistant assistant coordinator while "Big Game" Bob takes over. Chokelahoma has been well earned at this point.

[OU_Sooners75]

Well, there's another common denominator- Bob Stoops. And he's ultimately responsible. So are our annual Top 20 defenses good enough, or do you point the finger at Stoops for keeping BV and send them both packing together? I know several on this board aren't afraid to lump Bob in on this one- what about you? Personally, I think the state of college football today bit our *** in Dallas, not coaching. **** happens, and we got a big ole helping today. Tastes like chicken.

And, no, I don't like losing, but I don't feel it necessary to fire a group of coaches who have won 100+ games in 10 years. Defenses get toasted nowadays- its the way it is. You need to be prepared to outscore your oppponent when those Saturdays happen.

And Tech just beat Nebraska.


Bob is ultimately responsible for the setbacks and highlights.

However, when dealing with this issue, he is responsible for one thing, IMHO, and that is the loyalty he has with his coaches.

It is not a bad thing. And WE do not have to fire either one. But learning a new scheme, or getting BV some credible help, would be great.

[birddog]

i see a trend here. usc fans want to fire their staff after a loss.
tOSU fans want to fire the o-coordinator.
richt can't win the big game.
hell, there was heat on urban a season ago.
and now us.
i guess lsu would be next?

[Spray]

Bob is ultimately responsible for the setbacks and highlights.

However, when dealing with this issue, he is responsible for one thing, IMHO, and that is the loyalty he has with his coaches.

It is not a bad thing. And WE do not have to fire either one. But learning a new scheme, or getting BV some credible help, would be great.


No argument there.

On a somewhat related note- was anybody that impressed with Muschamp's defense? Definitely shut our run game down, and did stop us in the 4th when it mattered, but still susceptible to allowing Texas to be in shootouts. Just like us.

[GrapevineSooner]

Texas fans, once upon a time, wanted Greg Davis run out of town on a rail...with Mack right behind him.

Now, I wouldn't be surprised if Horn fans were willing to donate some coin to erect a statue of each coach on the UT campus.

[OU_Sooners75]

No argument there.

On a somewhat related note- was anybody that impressed with Muschamp's defense? Definitely shut our run game down, and did stop us in the 4th when it mattered, but still susceptible to allowing Texas to be in shootouts. Just like us.

I was more impressed with the refs than the defense of Texas.

Count it...
2 drives were held true thanks to two poorly called late hits.
1 drive resulted in a FG thanks to the lack of instant replay, even though it is available.

However, there is no reason what so ever that we as a #1 team in the nation to allow 45 points.

[GrapevineSooner]

No argument there.

On a somewhat related note- was anybody that impressed with Muschamp's defense? Definitely shut our run game down, and did stop us in the 4th when it mattered, but still susceptible to allowing Texas to be in shootouts. Just like us.

Which is why it wouldn't surprise me if Texas loses two games in the next three weeks.

I give them full credit for their win, but remember when we were up by 5 in the 4th and Colt ran up the middle and fumbled it only to get it back?

What happens if we get the ball there in Texas territory and then punch it in? Game over, right?

[jduggle]

Firing BV isn't necessarily the answer.

Coming to the realization that the Tampa 2 can, does, and will often get beat, hence why using it as base coverage is good, bringing that as the only egg in your basket and mixing it up not by changing coverage packages but by bringing an occasional blitz or rotating a safety up for run support does not a successful defense make.

How many big game losses does it take before Stoops realizes that the Cover 2 zone is worthless against good offenses? If you don't get to the QB you get burned pure and simple. Venables and Stoops need to spend a few days studying Saban's man coverage. At least you give the secondary a chance. If any of us performed this badly in our jobs when it really mattered we would be fired in a NY minute.

Curly Bill has been saying this for what is now years. OU will not win another championship with Venables as DC.

Can you tell I'm a little ticked?

[Curly Bill]

How many big game losses does it take before Stoops realizes that the Cover 2 zone is worthless against good offenses? If you don't get to the QB you get burned pure and simple. Venables and Stoops need to spend a few days studying Saban's man coverage. At least you give the secondary a chance. If any of us performed this badly in our jobs when it really mattered we would be fired in a NY minute.

Curly Bill has been saying this for what is now years. OU will not win another championship with Venables as DC.

Can you tell I'm a little ticked?

You can play cover 2, but you have to have options. We seem simply unwilling or unable to get out of it when it's not working, and we are not going to consistently get to the QB against good teams because our blitz package is so unimaginative.

[St. Louis Sooner]

has anyone mentioned ed orgeron as a suitable replacement for vulnerables? he was fantastic as D-coordinator at USC (kicked our a-- in the Orange Bowl) ... but he can't do the head coaching thing ... as evidenced at Ole Miss; the big thing about bringing in orgeron is that he is a helluva recruiter; I really want vulnerables to be gone ... in a really really bad sorta way;

[Curly Bill]

has anyone mentioned ed orgeron as a suitable replacement for vulnerables? he was fantastic as D-coordinator at USC (kicked our a-- in the Orange Bowl) ... but he can't do the head coaching thing ... as evidenced at Ole Miss; the big thing about bringing in orgeron is that he is a helluva recruiter; I really want vulnerables to be gone ... in a really really bad sorta way;

Sounds good to me. I'm in!

Disclaimer: For all I know Ed Orgeron could be a serial killer in the offseason, but since he's not BV I'm willing to give him a look.

[kingsby]

Not to beat a dead horse. But Texas has had 3 or 4 DC in the last 5 years. When their D was awful last year, they demoted Duane Aquina and brought in Muschamp. Anytime their D sucks they bring in a new DC; Chizik and Muschamp.

I hate to say it but it seems like Mack is better at adjusting his staff then Big Game Bob.

Bob is way too loyal to his staff.

Unbelievable

[Leroy Lizard]

I don't think the blame likes with Venables, but maybe a change is in order. I haven't seen anything really special out of Venables' defense, and we could luck out and get a top-notch defensive coordinator. I don't see our defenses falling apart with a new coordinator, and maybe we will wind up with a vast improvement.

But I don't know enough about defense to claim that Venables is or isn't doing a good job.

[wishbonesooner]

I guess the part that is so hard to take, is we have wasted several golden opportunities to win it all. We wasted Jason White's greatness, and Sam may never get to win it all if we can never depend on our defense in a big ballgame.

[UTsucks]

Agreed with all of this. I like BV the person. He ain't a head coach...why?

Holding a team to 45 while our QB goes for 379 and 5 TD's...disappointing.

Amen brother! :pop:

[OU_Sooners75]

I don't think the blame likes with Venables, but maybe a change is in order. I haven't seen anything really special out of Venables' defense, and we could luck out and get a top-notch defensive coordinator. I don't see our defenses falling apart with a new coordinator, and maybe we will wind up with a vast improvement.

But I don't know enough about defense to claim that Venables is or isn't doing a good job.

The object of the game is to score points while holding your opponents to the less points than you score.


We can do that against the Baylors, TCU's, Cincy's, etc. But we are unable to do this against teams like Texas or USC.


So I ask you...When you allowing 43.13 points per game in the last 8 big games, all under BV supervision, is Brent Venerables doing a good job?

[Fraggle145]

Hire Kines.

If I was going to vote for one, I'd vote for Willie Martinez at UGA.

[Johnny Utah]

If I was going to vote for one, I'd vote for Willie Martinez at UGA.

I can't speak for how secure he is on the inside of the organization but the fan base is not overly enamored with his body of work. That said, he is a fiery-type who seems to get his D playing with a lot of emotion (as did his predecessor Brian Van Gorder now with the Falcons).

[A-M]

Exactly right. Those guys were probably gassed by early in the 4th. Part of that though was what, 4 or 5 first downs by penalty? Granted the two PF on McCoy were very qustionable, especially the 2nd (it was definitley a dive--they did get a call back on the punter in the 3rd Q however), but it's on the D to avoid those. Why on earth is he even touching the guy out of bounds?
2 offsides in a row in absolutely pathetic as well. OU scoring drives were good, but no running game really does not give the D time to recoup, I think.

You'd think with that giant O-line, they would love to flatten people with the run, but it just ain't happening this year. It's inexplicable.

As for Texas, McCoy played inspired. He shredded the middle with short passes, and timely rushing calls, and their long drives were the key. The OU D was just wasted on the last 2 UT drives. UT defense was still fresh late in the game and stepped it up.

Hate it, but that's how I see it.


Didn't watch the last quarter, but I do agree with the rest of what you said. Our D gave them too much with making mistakes.

[boomersooner2001]

Not one bit of improvement over what WVU did to us. We're pissing away some really special chances to win #8 with this defense. Good teams figure us out, and move the ball at will. BV has no clue how to stop it.

OUr defensive schemes were dominating in the early years of the Big 12 because the spread offense hadn't really hit the conference like now. The problem is that all the other schools (i.e. OSU, sexaT, TTech, Mizwho, KU) have upgraded their offenses and we haven't adjusted our schemes. I am beginning to think that BV is so stubborn and refuses to think the schemes he has come up with won't work.

In every big game in recent memory, it's the same ol' thing over and over again. We shut down the outside passing lanes, but get burned over the middle. I'm not going to say BV should be fired, but maybe put him back in control of the LBs solely. BV is a damn fine LB coach, and I'd like to see Coach Stoops use his connections and bring someone in to put some new life into OUr defensive schemes. It's not like we're getting beat by some hail mary type play (i.e. Boise State) but OUr defense continues to get carved up the same way every big game.

Also, I have to put the blame for RR's replacement not being prepared solely on the coaching staff. RR is one helluva LB, but with two suspect knees already, they had to know that on every play there was a chance RR could go out. There should always be a guy ready to step in at any given moment and fill in. I don't expect the replacement to be the same caliber of player as RR, but at least know who to cover, where to line up, etc.

[BudSooner]

Hell, hire me as DC. I recall playing NCAA 2005 many moons ago...against texas and held them to -14yds rushing and 112yds passing.



And that was on Varsity, suck it BV. :D

[Bermuda Sooners Dad]

:stunned: Heck, all the papers are touting Tim Beckman as the next defensive genius since they beat Missouri. Go hire him. Not!!!

[Jason White's Third Knee]

But we are unable to do this against teams like Texas or USC.


So I ask you...When you allowing 43.13 points per game in the last 8 big games, all under BV supervision, is Brent Venerables doing a good job?

We held texas last year. The problem with "big" games is that they are "big" because they are the best teams in the country. They usually win a lot because they score a lot.


That poses a problem.


I blame our KO coverage more than the other stuff. I agree that we should be able to tackle better though.

[MALE918]

I like the Ed Orgeron idea but let met throw a couple of other teams. Charlie Strong and Lance Thompson.
I do not want to fire BV but head DC is not working. He could use some more tutoring on game planning and adjustments.

[MojoRisen]

I am tired of loosing big games and being at them- those are long trips back when you cover 1500 Miles. However that was a great game and I am proud of the team for being in it with a chance to win... Taking it on the chin with class get's tougher and tougher - when you are loosing big games and you can only turn to the D for the major issues.

BV needs to make some changes and Bob needs to let him know this - I like BV but it does seem that we could do better with 2 Defensive Coordinators.

He seems to be great against Mizzou- but not anyone can disclaim the last 8 big games and the outcome of those games... unfortunately for BV...

I don't have the answers but a change is needed- perhaps a young up and coming DC to assist in game planning and adjustments.

[JLEW1818]

If Stoops announced that Kevin Wilson was now taking over as Defensive Coordinator, I really don't think it would matter much....

[Curly Bill]

If Stoops announced that Kevin Wilson was now taking over as Defensive Coordinator, I really don't think it would matter much....

KW has done a good job of stopping our running game. :D

[JLEW1818]

EXACTLY

[CK Sooner]

KW has done a good job of stopping our running game. :D

Nope, he blames the running backs.

:D

[Curly Bill]

Nope, he blames the running backs.

:D

Oh yeah. :D

Of course I wouldn't run hard either if given a choice to run into a brick wall or a change to maybe run around it, and he kept telling me to run into the wall I'd shut it down too.

[CK Sooner]

Oh yeah. :D

Of course I wouldn't run hard either if given a choice to run into a brick wall or a change to maybe run around it, and he kept telling me to run into the wall I'd shut it down too.

Exactly

[jduggle]

OUr defensive schemes were dominating in the early years of the Big 12 because the spread offense hadn't really hit the conference like now. The problem is that all the other schools (i.e. OSU, sexaT, TTech, Mizwho, KU) have upgraded their offenses and we haven't adjusted our schemes. I am beginning to think that BV is so stubborn and refuses to think the schemes he has come up with won't work.

Great point. Good offenses with sharp QB's know exactly how to exploit our defense. The pros have all but given up the cover 2 because of how far the west coast offenses have progressed.

I don't know if BV is stubborn or not, but it is more than obvious that he hasn't thought of anything new. Maybe, just maybe, he should think about simplifying the defense so that he can rely on our players innate athletic ability rather than hoping they keep their often too complex assignments.

In any event, the defense looks exactly as it has for far too long and I think the players are doing their best to do what BV is teaching. It's really up to BS and BV to try something else in order to get to the next level.

[Indy Sooner]

So I ask you...When you allowing 43.13 points per game in the last 8 big games, all under BV supervision, is Brent Venerables doing a good job?

Now don't confuse the BV sympathizers with facts...

[Curly Bill]

Now don't confuse the BV sympathizers with facts...

Don't have to worry much about that...they have been somewhat conspicuous by their absence.

[beer4me]

With BV?

Another great defensive scheme we put together today!

Nope, not happy with bv have not been for several years now. Bob won't dump him because of loyalty but that might bite him down the line.

It has been mentioned over and over again on each of the boards I have visited that we lost when RR went out.

Here is the bottom line, we were not doing very well when RR was in there. Yes when he left it got worse especially up the center.

But you must ask yourselves this question "Why did we fall apart when he left?" Did we miss his great athletic powers? (Yes but that is not why we fell apart).

The answer to that question is RR was the COACH out on defense he was the one that put the players in position and called the schemes that they should be in and told the rest where the ball was headed.

In answer to your first response YES each team on each side of the ball needs a leader someone who will stand up and take charge on the field.

HOWEVER it is the COACHES that should get players in place and teach them what to look for and when. It is the coaches that should demand that a player either tackles or sits on the bench. I could go on and on but won't you know the drill and know what a coach is supposed to do to get his TEAM ready to play.

This is why IMO our defense looks great against poor teams but looks poor against great teams.

The leader of the team on the field should only have to make minor adjustments on the field and be ready for the unexpected but they should not have to be a coach teaching fundamentals, tackling, telling pass defenders how to postition themselves to defend, etc, etc.

Nope tired of bv and have been.

BOOMER SOONER

[boomermagic]

Haven't been happy with BV since Mike left.

Another big game, another 40+ points given up. Color me less then shocked.


I agree !

[MiccoMacey]

I think we need better fans myself.

[OUmillenium]

Great point. Good offenses with sharp QB's know exactly how to exploit our defense. The pros have all but given up the cover 2 because of how far the west coast offenses have progressed.

I don't know if BV is stubborn or not, but it is more than obvious that he hasn't thought of anything new. Maybe, just maybe, he should think about simplifying the defense so that he can rely on our players innate athletic ability rather than hoping they keep their often too complex assignments.

In any event, the defense looks exactly as it has for far too long and I think the players are doing their best to do what BV is teaching. It's really up to BS and BV to try something else in order to get to the next level.

I like this noob...spekoink

[OU_Sooners75]

I think we need better fans myself.

Why, because some of us are tired of the mediocrity of our Defense in big games?

Maybe you are correct...We do need better fans...starting with those that think this team and the entire coaching staff is doing an excellent job.

Maybe we should start by replacing you?

[MiccoMacey]

At least you were cool enough to sign your neg spek.

But put me in the camp of people who don't expect perfection week in and week out, year in and year out. These are 18-22 year old kids. They aren't going to be perfect. Our coaches aren't perfect.

We lost a game. We lose a game every year (well...most years). Almost every team in the history of the NCAA loses a game every year.

And every time...I mean every time...people bitch and say "We need to fire someone".

And by people, I mean people like you. Unrealistic people who sit in front of a computer and bitch and moan about OU's _____ (insert your whine).

Today, you chose Brent Venables. Next week, when we can't run well again, it'll be "Fire Kevin Wilson". Next time we lose, or don't make it to the Big Twelve Championship, you'll be back on here saying "Fire Bob Stoops".

You are easy to spot. You are easy to pick out of a crowd, because you're the one that's always bitching about something at get-togethers and picnics.

Replace me..."Fire MiccoMacey as a Sooner fan". It fits with your motif.

[Nof49 Sooner]

Those of us who are unhappy with BV don't expect perfection every week. What we do expect is to not continually get out coached year after year in big games that you sometimes have weeks to prepare for. Yes, these are 18-22 year old kids, and yes, we often care too much about a football. But college football is a multi-billion dollar business, so if we feel that a coaching staff that is paid millions of dollars isn't doing their job well enough, you're GD right we're going to complain and expect something to change.

Specifically on this years RRS game, do we not have a nickel or dime package to take away the passing game? On 3rd and 2, why are we giving their WRs a 10yd cushion? Did we attempt to disguise one blitz? In all seriousness though, many of you watch and rewatch the games more closely than me so if I'm wrong on any of this please correct me.

BV is a very good coach, but a very good coordinator? The lack of in game adjustments seems to say, no. Does he need to be fired? Probably not if we went back to a co-def coordinators setup, or at the very least, fire BJW and see if another coach can get better production out of the secondary. They're too talented to get picked apart like they did. You don't fire someone just to fire someone, like Auburn did. But if someone like Randy Shannon became available, we should take a long look.

Random facts...
Our record since 2002 in the RRS, CCG, and bowl games = 7 wins, 8 losses
Points for OU in those games = 390
Points against OU in those games = 395

All that aside, bring it Kansas!

[PalmBeachSooner1]

I can't stand Vulnerables. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!

[OU-HSV]

I believe this is my very first post since I returned home from the game in Dallas....not because I'm mad, and not because I'm less of a Soonerfan now than I was before last Saturday...but because my computer was eff'd up.
Anyways, I will start by saying I had an absolute blast of a weekend other than our loss of course. It was my first time to attend the Red River Rivalry and I hope it is not my last, great atmosphere. Now I know why so many people want to keep the game there at the Cotton Bowl.

Now, for those of you who feel like reading...let me now get to my thoughts on the game/or more specifically the defensive coaching....

I was hoping that after the Mizzou Big 12 champ game last year that BV had sparked something new up for our D. Then the WVGA Fiesta Bowl came...and I thought oh crap, here we go again. Then as I watched Colt make plays and Shipley shred our D, I knew that I was fully back on the "WTF is going on with our defensive coaching" train.
Our offense did everything they could to win the game. Who cares if we aren't running the ball as well as we're used to seeing...sure we'd all like to see that happen, but my gosh we put up 35 offensive points. If we are a high caliber team as we thought we were going into this game....35 points should be enough to beat damn near anyone. My opinion is that being a top team you assume your team can play stout defense....we showed Saturday that we aren't a stout enough defense, or at least we aren't a stout defensive coaching staff right now.
I'm not going to put that loss all on the players though. Yes they missed numerous tackles, yes the LBs seemed mismatched in the pass coverage game....but it is Brent's effin job to make the adjustments necessary to be sure we DON'T get mismatched damn near every play...and to be sure we don't let opponents nickel and dime us to death down the field. If you or I don't consistently do a good job at our office, don't we hear about it...and eventually aren't changes made?? Well I think Brent should be no different...he's coached our defense to be inconsistent and I'm tired of it. I'm tired of seeing our D get torched in big games.
That being said, I'm not completely calling for BV to be fired/forced out (yet),but I would really like to see him try a new defensive system/scheme or something that will utilize all of these super talents that our coaches have recruited in the best way possible. It just seems that we should have some defensive athletes in which their speed can be used to adjust to a spread offense, or can be used when a constant mismatch is making an appearance in a half of a football game.
All that being said, it was a great game, great atmosphere...but definitely not the outcome I or many of you were expecting.
We need something new on defense...new scheme, new D Coordinator, something...just something that can be consistent and give a high power offense a chance to win games when they put up 35 points.
Just my thoughts.

[Curly Bill]

Those of us who are unhappy with BV don't expect perfection every week. What we do expect is to not continually get out coached year after year in big games that you sometimes have weeks to prepare for. Yes, these are 18-22 year old kids, and yes, we often care too much about a football. But college football is a multi-billion dollar business, so if we feel that a coaching staff that is paid millions of dollars isn't doing their job well enough, you're GD right we're going to complain and expect something to change.

Specifically on this years RRS game, do we not have a nickel or dime package to take away the passing game? On 3rd and 2, why are we giving their WRs a 10yd cushion? Did we attempt to disguise one blitz? In all seriousness though, many of you watch and rewatch the games more closely than me so if I'm wrong on any of this please correct me.

BV is a very good coach, but a very good coordinator? The lack of in game adjustments seems to say, no. Does he need to be fired? Probably not if we went back to a co-def coordinators setup, or at the very least, fire BJW and see if another coach can get better production out of the secondary. They're too talented to get picked apart like they did. You don't fire someone just to fire someone, like Auburn did. But if someone like Randy Shannon became available, we should take a long look.

Random facts...
Our record since 2002 in the RRS, CCG, and bowl games = 7 wins, 8 losses
Points for OU in those games = 390
Points against OU in those games = 395

All that aside, bring it Kansas!

Only two posts so far, but off to a good start. SPEK

[OU-HSV]

At least you were cool enough to sign your neg spek.

But put me in the camp of people who don't expect perfection week in and week out, year in and year out. These are 18-22 year old kids. They aren't going to be perfect. Our coaches aren't perfect.

We lost a game. We lose a game every year (well...most years). Almost every team in the history of the NCAA loses a game every year.

And every time...I mean every time...people bitch and say "We need to fire someone".

And by people, I mean people like you. Unrealistic people who sit in front of a computer and bitch and moan about OU's _____ (insert your whine).

Today, you chose Brent Venables. Next week, when we can't run well again, it'll be "Fire Kevin Wilson". Next time we lose, or don't make it to the Big Twelve Championship, you'll be back on here saying "Fire Bob Stoops".

You are easy to spot. You are easy to pick out of a crowd, because you're the one that's always bitching about something at get-togethers and picnics.

Replace me..."Fire MiccoMacey as a Sooner fan". It fits with your motif.

I want it to be known that I don't fit this stereotype. I don't bitch often about OUr Sooners. I don't bitch after every loss we have.
I simply felt this was an opportunity to bitch about something that seems pretty clear as a consistent problem, especially when we play tougher teams whose level wer'e supposed to be on.

[Iam4OUru]

I want it to be known that I don't fit this stereotype. I don't bitch often about OUr Sooners. I don't bitch after every loss we have.

I'm not one to complain about every loss either...especially when you only average 2 per year for the past decade. I don't have the answers to those losses either...unlike some on this board. Why aren't you guys fixin' these problems.....bad timing? I spend a great deal of time on LSU message boards and I don't think the pissin' 'n' moanin' is any worse there than here after a loss. Quite frankly, I am shocked.

[MiccoMacey]

Let's play a hypothetical game here...

If Texas turns out to be legit...and Colt goes on and continues to dominate people like he did us...

Is it bad defense, or we just ran into a heck of an offense?

At some point, you also have to give credit to other programs. Maybe they're just that damn good. They did score 50 on a bunch of people.

Pretty much...it's cool. Someone espoused a view...I espoused mine...it's a difference of opinion.

[HopeSpringsEternal]

I believe this is my very first post since I returned home from the game in Dallas....not because I'm mad, and not because I'm less of a Soonerfan now than I was before last Saturday...but because my computer was eff'd up.
Anyways, I will start by saying I had an absolute blast of a weekend other than our loss of course. It was my first time to attend the Red River Rivalry and I hope it is not my last, great atmosphere. Now I know why so many people want to keep the game there at the Cotton Bowl.

Now, for those of you who feel like reading...let me now get to my thoughts on the game/or more specifically the defensive coaching....

I was hoping that after the Mizzou Big 12 champ game last year that BV had sparked something new up for our D. Then the WVGA Fiesta Bowl came...and I thought oh crap, here we go again. Then as I watched Colt make plays and Shipley shred our D, I knew that I was fully back on the "WTF is going on with our defensive coaching" train.
Our offense did everything they could to win the game. Who cares if we aren't running the ball as well as we're used to seeing...sure we'd all like to see that happen, but my gosh we put up 35 offensive points. If we are a high caliber team as we thought we were going into this game....35 points should be enough to beat damn near anyone. My opinion is that being a top team you assume your team can play stout defense....we showed Saturday that we aren't a stout enough defense, or at least we aren't a stout defensive coaching staff right now.
I'm not going to put that loss all on the players though. Yes they missed numerous tackles, yes the LBs seemed mismatched in the pass coverage game....but it is Brent's effin job to make the adjustments necessary to be sure we DON'T get mismatched damn near every play...and to be sure we don't let opponents nickel and dime us to death down the field. If you or I don't consistently do a good job at our office, don't we hear about it...and eventually aren't changes made?? Well I think Brent should be no different...he's coached our defense to be inconsistent and I'm tired of it. I'm tired of seeing our D get torched in big games.
That being said, I'm not completely calling for BV to be fired/forced out (yet),but I would really like to see him try a new defensive system/scheme or something that will utilize all of these super talents that our coaches have recruited in the best way possible. It just seems that we should have some defensive athletes in which their speed can be used to adjust to a spread offense, or can be used when a constant mismatch is making an appearance in a half of a football game.
All that being said, it was a great game, great atmosphere...but definitely not the outcome I or many of you were expecting.
We need something new on defense...new scheme, new D Coordinator, something...just something that can be consistent and give a high power offense a chance to win games when they put up 35 points.
Just my thoughts.

Didn't Bob say before the season started they were going to do different things on defense this year? And yes, Shipley was open, but he was NOT the only receiver running free. The entire team looked confused on what exactly they were supposed to be doing on several occasions. It's too bad for Crow he happened to be the new guy on the field so he got picked on. And subsequently, thrown to the wolves to protect BV and his genius. To me, that's a low class move I'd expect from the likes of Tommy Bowden. What does this guy have to do before you'll be willing to say he needs to be shown the door? That's an honest question by the way.

[Curly Bill]

Let's play a hypothetical game here...

If Texas turns out to be legit...and Colt goes on and continues to dominate people like he did us...

Is it bad defense, or we just ran into a heck of an offense?

At some point, you also have to give credit to other programs. Maybe they're just that damn good. They did score 50 on a bunch of people.

Pretty much...it's cool. Someone espoused a view...I espoused mine...it's a difference of opinion.

I give Texas credit for continuing to exploit our poor defensive scheme, and our inability/unwillingness to adjust. :D

[Iam4OUru]

At some point, you also have to give credit to other programs. Maybe they're just that damn good. They did score 50 on a bunch of people.


Homers just can't bring themselves to do that.

[MiccoMacey]

I give Texas credit for continuing to exploit our poor defensive scheme, and our inability/unwillingness to adjust. :D

Now THAT'S how you do it. :D

[HopeSpringsEternal]

Let's play a hypothetical game here...

If Texas turns out to be legit...and Colt goes on and continues to dominate people like he did us...

Is it bad defense, or we just ran into a heck of an offense?

At some point, you also have to give credit to other programs. Maybe they're just that damn good. They did score 50 on a bunch of people.

Pretty much...it's cool. Someone espoused a view...I espoused mine...it's a difference of opinion.

What color is the sky in your world? If you know what you're looking at when you are looking at it then go back and watch the game again and try paying attention to what you're seeing. I can guarantee you, it was bad defense.

[MiccoMacey]

Didn't.

Answer.

The.

Question.

[HopeSpringsEternal]

I give Texas credit for continuing to exploit our poor defensive scheme, and our inability/unwillingness to adjust. :D

Yes, when you've got a 4 on 3 advantage over the offense in coverage and 3 of your guys on defense end up guarding space as two receivers streak open for TD's (QB can take his pick) and a third for at least a first down it's hard not to, somehow, give them credit.

[Curly Bill]

Truthfully, in the past Texas' OC has not been known for his great wisdom. I give them credit for this time finding and continuing to exploit a problem with our defensive scheme. I am past ready to get rid of Venables for another failure in a big game to see that his *** was PWNed and not trying to do something about it.

[HopeSpringsEternal]

Didn't.

Answer.

The.

Question.

Brent????

You're like the black knight in Holy Grail. Look that guy is wide open for a TD while the secondary is doing twirls.

No he isn't!

Yes he is, look!

It's only a mirage. You're not really seeing that.

[HopeSpringsEternal]

Homers just can't bring themselves to do that.

Or it could be people watching a replay and knowing what they're looking at and can then definitively say, that's bad defense. But that would be too much of a stretch for you to make right? The last 4+ years haven't shown you anything? That's says a lot right there.

[HopeSpringsEternal]

Truthfully, in the past Texas' OC has not been known for his great wisdom. I give them credit for this time finding and continuing to exploit a problem with our defensive scheme. I am past ready to get rid of Venables for another failure in a big game to see that his *** was PWNed and not trying to do something about it.

+1

It won't happen. But man, it sure needs to.

[OU-HSV]

Let's play a hypothetical game here...

If Texas turns out to be legit...and Colt goes on and continues to dominate people like he did us...

Is it bad defense, or we just ran into a heck of an offense?

At some point, you also have to give credit to other programs. Maybe they're just that damn good. They did score 50 on a bunch of people.

Pretty much...it's cool. Someone espoused a view...I espoused mine...it's a difference of opinion.

I think it's both. We played bad defense, a defense I gave too much credit to....and they have a great offense, an offense that I didn't give enough credit to.
I watched the game back on my dvr already since I returned from watching it from the stands at the game. Just as I recalled seeing in person, there were several missed tackles, that's poor defense....there are several plays in which one or two defenders (mostly the LBs) are running in vacant space while the WR is running in his own open space, that's poor defense. Several times our D simply wasn't in position to even begin to attempt to cover Shipley and company. If it was once or twice, that's one thing...but when it happens every other damn play, that's poor defense.
I'm sorry, but you and I will disagree on this. I'm here to tell you, I'm not giving in.
It's the basics of football, make a hit, and wrap up. If a guy is continuously open...figure out what you have to do to cover him (that especially goes for Brent). Shipley isn't Randy Moss or Terrel Owens. And they must be more disciplined, don't jump offsides so damn much.
And by gosh if we're going to be a #1 team...and if we're going to claim that the Big 12 is the toughest conference in college football this season....then we better be ready to "run into a heck of an offense"....and we better be ready to compete defensively against that heck of an offense.
You said they did score 50 points on a bunch of people....you could just as easily say we held a bunch of people under 45 points. Besides, wouldn't you think our D should be able to play better than Florida Atlantic, UTEP, Arkansas, and Rice??
I'll say it again, my point is our D plays inconsistent under Brent and our D is known to get torched in big games. And to me if we ever want to win the National Championship again anytime soon, something has to change.

[OU_Sooners75]

But put me in the camp of people who don't expect perfection week in and week out, year in and year out. These are 18-22 year old kids. They aren't going to be perfect. Our coaches aren't perfect.



I do not expect perfection either when pertaining to the players. However, we are not talking about the players here. We are talking about the ineptitude that Brent Venables brings with him. He has this undesirable knack at staying with a scheme that does not work.

And this has been the flavor we see everytime we have been in a BCS Bowl game under BV's tutledge and 90% of the big games we have played in while he has had total control over the defense!

So please, stop acting like a politician and spinning this crap into an argument about the kids and perfection. This is an argument about Venables, nothing more nothing less!

P.S. People do not need to sign their spek, especially when you can see who posts it. ;)

Edit: I do not start calling for someone's head after every loss. And I am not calling for BV's head here. I am wanting to know if BV has the ability, as most great millionaire coaches, to change things? The answer so far has been a big resounding NO!

[OU_Sooners75]

Let's play a hypothetical game here...

If Texas turns out to be legit...and Colt goes on and continues to dominate people like he did us...

Is it bad defense, or we just ran into a heck of an offense?

At some point, you also have to give credit to other programs. Maybe they're just that damn good. They did score 50 on a bunch of people.

Pretty much...it's cool. Someone espoused a view...I espoused mine...it's a difference of opinion.

Yes it is bad or at least the average.


We were killed the second half with Shipley coming across the middle on flags and slants. We stop this, and our chances of winning this game are improved.

[Sooner70]

Man, I wish I knew the answer. If I hadn't seen the game & someone had told me OU had scored 35 points but not told me how many Texas scored & could I guess the outcome, I'd probably have said OU likely won.

I hear all the talk about BV & there certainly have been some defensive meltdowns, especially post season. BUT, then I look at the Big 12 Championslhip last year & I think OU's D could've stopped anybody that day. Chase Daniel was frustrated out of his mind.

One thing that probably fades the heat for BV is I hear he's a great recruiter. I don't know, but some of you'all might chime in on that

In my simple mind, it seems to me when OU rises to the championship level is when they have stardom, excellence, consistency & a bit of intimidating presence at the linebacking corps. No doubt losing Reynolds hurt big time. I just recall a certain boldness & intimidating brashness from guys like Calmus, Marshall (remember the coin toss at the 2000 NC game when Torrance publicly rebuked Wienke for "stealing that (Heisman) trophy from my boy (Heupel)." & even last year when Loftin was in Chase Daniels' face after he dropped him for a big time loss. Heck, Roy Williams wanted to shake hands with Brandon Everidge (I know he's not a LB) before a Texas game & BE refused--"I'm not here for a social hour ", or something like that. Heck, think about Bosworth. A certain focus & intimidating boldness (that you can back up by quality play, not just trash talk) coupled with great talent.

Like I say, I don't know. I'm not a football technician like many of you'all, but I'd sure like to know what you'all think on that angle.

[Sooner70]

Oh yeah, how could I forget Roy Williams, Teddy Lehman, etc.

[OU-HSV]

Yes it is bad or at least the average.


We were killed the second half with Shipley coming across the middle on flags and slants. We stop this, and we win the game.
fixed