Are we without a break away threat at RB ?

[boomermagic]

Murray was last year but so far this year he is not.. Brown is solid and consistant but doesn't take it to the house.. Madu hasn't broken a long one but seems quick.. Murray is good but doesn't take off on the long runs like he did a year ago.. That seems to be the only thing our offense is lacking so far..

[BermudaSooner]

It does seem Murray was slowed by his knee injury.

[soonerfan28]

When watching Murray it seems like he either doesn't have great vision or he is just hesitant, but you can tell for sure that he's running with more power then he did last year. I think he's a break away threat for sure though and we will pull out some stuff against Texas that we haven't seen yet this year.

[StoopTroup]

Bob keeps putting Madu in the mix.

I think he's waiting to see if he steps it up.

Anyone know his 40 time?

[cheezyq]

I just don't think that there have been consistent holes on the 2nd level for them to take it to the house. Our OL has been good at blowing people off the ball initially, but it seems that a LB or DB is always waiting around and just gets Murray or Brown by an ankle.

My guess is that defenses have just been instructed to load up against the run, hoping that Bradford will have a bad day, like he did a couple of times last year. The problem for defenses this year, though, is that Bradford isn't a freshman anymore. That, and the no huddle.

[stoopified]

I think Murray MAY be affected by his knee injury but I also think he is suffering from JAMES ALLEN disease.Allen got into the habit of doing too many cuts, shake and bake moves instead of just hitting the hole and going.It took Allen tothe midseason point of his senior season to get over that.Hopefully DM will recover quicker.Tight now I would describe OUr running game as solid but unspectacular,much like 2003 with Works and Jones.

How much of this is due to the backs,playcalling,or the O-line underperforming?Sam has 4 300+ yard games this year compared to only 2 last year ,so are we pass-happy?I'm no coach but I don't think the O-line is creating the same holes they did last year.The answer IMHO is proably a little bit of all the above.Just keep winning and I'll be happy.

[sortiz1965]

During the game, I noticed numerous runs that Brown, Murray, and Madu got close to breaking, only to be tackled around the lower leg area. I don't think Murray has lost a step or anything of the sort; in this particular game, it's pretty evident the Baylor defense was coached to tackle low.

I think Murray is maturing as a runner, from a pure speedster to a tough back who can bring it in the trenches also. And folks, you have to keep in mind that the OU offense never displays the full package of options until Texas. Truth be known, the offense has been pretty vanilla so far. It's easy for even the lowliest defense to react when the offensive play is a simple I-formation run up the middle.

[boomermagic]

During the game, I noticed numerous runs that Brown, Murray, and Madu got close to breaking, only to be tackled around the lower leg area. I don't think Murray has lost a step or anything of the sort; in this particular game, it's pretty evident the Baylor defense was coached to tackle low.

I think Murray is maturing as a runner, from a pure speedster to a tough back who can bring it in the trenches also. And folks, you have to keep in mind that the OU offense never displays the full package of options until Texas. Truth be known, the offense has been pretty vanilla so far. It's easy for even the lowliest defense to react when the offensive play is a simple I-formation run up the middle.


If that is the case then we will know after the texas game..

[CK Sooner]

If that is the case then we will know after the texas game..

Unless they can tackle too.

:rolleyes:

[Jeronimo]

i thought maybe Murray might be worried to make that really hard cut and sprint and his knee giving out. he looks like hes running very cautiously. there have been times his speed showed up again. but once he needs to cut, he looks scared to do it. Idk, just throwing out another possibility here. Something definitely isnt right with him though.

im not sure we have as much a homerun threat at RB as we did, but undoubtedly effective anyway.

[Bonehead]

One factor that hasn't been mentioned is that besides the knee injury Murray also bulked up a bit, too.

[Rogue]

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p99/cjrogue/0490921b-c552-4289-b3d4-7cfc6746ae0.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p99/cjrogue/3f147402-db71-4671-b9f7-fe46ee65437.jpg

[KC//CRIMSON]

I think Murray MAY be affected by his knee injury but I also think he is suffering from JAMES ALLEN disease.Allen got into the habit of doing too many cuts, shake and bake moves instead of just hitting the hole and going.It took Allen tothe midseason point of his senior season to get over that.Hopefully DM will recover quicker.Tight now I would describe OUr running game as solid but unspectacular,much like 2003 with Works and Jones.

How much of this is due to the backs,playcalling,or the O-line underperforming?Sam has 4 300+ yard games this year compared to only 2 last year ,so are we pass-happy?I'm no coach but I don't think the O-line is creating the same holes they did last year.The answer IMHO is proably a little bit of all the above.Just keep winning and I'll be happy.


It may just be me, but in the last two games it looks more like the Kejuan Jones disease (tripping over the hash marks.) Or maybe his injury hasn't healed 100%

This year's run attack is all finesse. We haven't had a smash-mouth attack since AD left. IMO.

[boomrsoonr]

I think Madu is the man we're looking for in a breakaway running back. But, I think a lot of it has to do with the O-line too. They're so conditioned at protecting Bradford, and rightly so, that they just aren't opening up the holes needed for them to go more than a few yards. I also think our receivers are going downfield on every play, including the running plays. They make the secondary always wonder if it's going to be a pass or run play. But, this also takes them too far downfield to be effective at blocking the linebackers.

Doesn't really matter, IMO, though. If we can get 5-7 yards on every running play, we'll move the ball and win a lot of games. Not to mention burn up the clock more since our passing game is not using much time at all. Our first score against Baylor came with 14:01 still on the clock. And that was after Baylor got the ball first!

[okiewaker]

It may just be me, but in the last two games it looks more like the Kejuan Jones disease (tripping over the hash marks.) Or maybe his injury hasn't healed 100%

This year's run attack is all finesse. We haven't had a smash-mouth attack since AD left. IMO.


My thoughts exactly.

[batonrougesooner]

I think we are just used to AD running over everybody.

[soonerhubs]

I blame Baylor's turf.

[StoopTroup]

I think the main reason we haven't had any long breakaway runs yet is because we haven't played Alabama yet. :D

[adoniijahsooner]

we have one; but he's redshirting

[tommieharris91]

It may just be me, but in the last two games it looks more like the Kejuan Jones disease (tripping over the hash marks.) Or maybe his injury hasn't healed 100%

This year's run attack is all finesse. We haven't had a smash-mouth attack since AD left. IMO.

True, but look at all the good teams this season that don't have punishing runners this season.

[BoulderSooner79]

We have a pass blocking line and it's pretty rare for a line to excel at both pass blocking and run blocking. Given our QB and receivers, I'll take the pass protection if I have to choose. But a break-away threat at RB would put us over the top and I'm bummed that DM hasn't returned to last year's form. I'm hopeful he hasn't been slowed permanently and I could even see him improving during this season. This year's RB's are still better than the '03 team and that squad was pretty darn dominant on offense as well.

[MissouriSooner]

If DM hit the hole as hard and fast as does CB, he'd have several long runs already this year. He spends too much time dancing in holes that close very fast. He's a stud, and perhaps Bob will get him to quit *****footing and hit the dang hole quick and keep on going.

[JLEW1818]

Does anybody have a break away back in the big 12 ?

[tommieharris91]

Does anybody have a break away back in the big 12 ?

Look at the rushing totals okie state is putting up.

[KingDavid]

Does anybody have a break away back in the big 12 ?

Goodson, fo' sho'.

Of course, the best "break-away" he could do is run as fast as he can away from that piece of dung program in College Station.

[OU_Sooners75]

I just don't think that there have been consistent holes on the 2nd level for them to take it to the house. Our OL has been good at blowing people off the ball initially, but it seems that a LB or DB is always waiting around and just gets Murray or Brown by an ankle.

My guess is that defenses have just been instructed to load up against the run, hoping that Bradford will have a bad day, like he did a couple of times last year. The problem for defenses this year, though, is that Bradford isn't a freshman anymore. That, and the no huddle.


Your second part is correct.

There has yet to be one game that a team has not loaded 8-9 guys in the box to stop the run, daring the best QB and WR corps in the nation to beat them.

Not sure why teams are doing this. I guess it is to at least shutdown one dangerous aspect of the OU offense.

If Texas does this next Saturday, and I hope they do. It will be a record setting game for Bradford, considering Texas' secondary is very suspect and not very good at all. Their pass defense is ranked 96th in the nation.

[KingDavid]

I agree that the "electricity" of DM appears to have a reduced voltage this year. In watching the Baylor game, I thought Brown did a better job of hitting the hole hard and getting to the second level. I also thought that Madu had the best "moves" of the three.

I don't think that either Mado or Brown has DM's high gear.

I think DM is showing some hesitancies associated with the knee injury. Maybe he's healed. Maybe it's just in his head? Either way, he looks like he's trying too hard rather than just letting his instincts take over.

[Payton]

He is really missing the pop he had last season but he's still getting his strength back from the surgery. I also don't think he was trying too hard against baylor.

[goingoneight]

Look at the rushing totals okie state is putting up.

They also run two back sets with a running QB. That's like asking why we aren't more like West Virginia. Imagine how good OSU would be if Zac Robinson busts a wheel and people can key in on Hunter and Bryant downfield. About as stellar as we were through three quarters against Tech last year.

1. It has to do with the style of offense you run. We don't do options, rarely do we toss sweep, we're just a power team. AP proved in Murray's absence last year that when you go back and designate one guy as "the guy," this offense can put up moster numbers on the ground. If AP was all-everything and an unstoppable threat at RB like AD was, I'm sure someone in the NFL would have taken notice by now.

2. Murray shares touches with lots of other guys. To complain about what he's getting done right now is like complaining about Jermaine Gresham not having 15 touchdowns yet. You get your turn, and provided the big play is there, you excel. OUr offense can go 10 plays, 99 yards and use a different player each play to get to the endzone. Murray, Madu, Brown, Iglesias, Gresham, Johnson, Chaney, Broyles, Eldridge... you get the picture... I don't see Kevin Wilson obsessed with getting one guy his touches just to satisfy him or get him his Heisman. He knows he's got weapons all around, and a good triggerman to drive the machine. The problem with an All-America team is sometimes doing all those All-Americans justice. I like this "problem" we seem to have. The unselfish approach may not field a superstar stats guy outside of Bradford, but oh, well... it gets the job done. Basically we're deep and talented on offense, and Chuck Long hasn't discovered the only guy he's willing to let carry the ball.

3. Chris Brown doesn't hit the holes faster or anything like that. If you watch these two, you'll notice their styles are completely different from eachother. If you try and change a guy's style and make him someone else... you end up with Julius Jones trying to be Marion Barber, or closer to home... Allen Patrick trying to be DeMarco Murray. Remember all the games leading up to DeMarco's injury last year? Remember people writing Patrick off as nothing more than a glorified backup? You have to let guys do their thing, and for now, DeMarco's thing, injured or not... leads the team in rushing and obviously is doing something right for Sam to have success downfield without a Malcom Kelly-type present. CB's style is more like a car that's left in neutral on a downgraded slope. He just kinda rolls through and avoids head-first contact. Murray is a guy who waits for the hole to develop, then shoots through it. He's a real nightmare to tackle according to everyone on the team. I'd say when TCU's "stellar" defense has to put eight guys on the line for simple running plays, we're doing something right. Remember CB had a knee surgery, too... and he wasn't exactly tearing it up against TCU, either.


And finally... for those that say Murray's afraid to make dangerous cuts, did you see the screen pass against TCU he made? That's one of the nastiest cuts I've seen in recent memory when he spun off that defender, and he did it in full speed like it was second nature. CB, Madu, Patrick... nobody else in recent memory still makes those plays IMO. The linebacker would have blown anyone else up. He's added weight, and given all these points... I can certainly see why he's not busting long runs every snap. Nevermind the fact that even in his best game so far he's not some consistent 150+ yard rusher. Where's the homerun plays by Brown and Madu? They're all experiencing the same "problem," and that's having quality guys around them produce at a level they don't have to be AD for OU to win.

[BoulderSooner79]

To see how strong and fast DM is right now amazes me and it kinda bums me out he gets questioned here so much. I had knee surgery that involved the kneecap over 2 years ago and I'm just now getting close to the mobility I had before. Now I'm an old fart and not a 20yo elite athlete, but I did all my therapy and I ride my bike over 3000 miles a year in the Colorado mountains. For my particular injury, I was told the fastest recovery time was 12-18mos for a young person using intensive therapy. Now I don't know exactly what surgery DM had and we'll probably never know given Stoops' policy on injury info. But there is no such thing as minor tighten-up the kneecap surgery. It's cutting and sewing on someone and when it is around the kneecap, the quad muscle shuts and has to be built back up. I can only imagine how hard that is for an RB. DM has obviously worked hard to get where he is an he will pass the 1 year mark before bowl season. And he is still the best we have right now.

[My Opinion Matters]

They also run two back sets with a running QB. That's like asking why we aren't more like West Virginia. Imagine how good OSU would be if Zac Robinson busts a wheel and people can key in on Hunter and Bryant downfield. About as stellar as we were through three quarters against Tech last year.

1. It has to do with the style of offense you run. We don't do options, rarely do we toss sweep, we're just a power team. AP proved in Murray's absence last year that when you go back and designate one guy as "the guy," this offense can put up moster numbers on the ground. If AP was all-everything and an unstoppable threat at RB like AD was, I'm sure someone in the NFL would have taken notice by now.

2. Murray shares touches with lots of other guys. To complain about what he's getting done right now is like complaining about Jermaine Gresham not having 15 touchdowns yet. You get your turn, and provided the big play is there, you excel. OUr offense can go 10 plays, 99 yards and use a different player each play to get to the endzone. Murray, Madu, Brown, Iglesias, Gresham, Johnson, Chaney, Broyles, Eldridge... you get the picture... I don't see Kevin Wilson obsessed with getting one guy his touches just to satisfy him or get him his Heisman. He knows he's got weapons all around, and a good triggerman to drive the machine. The problem with an All-America team is sometimes doing all those All-Americans justice. I like this "problem" we seem to have. The unselfish approach may not field a superstar stats guy outside of Bradford, but oh, well... it gets the job done. Basically we're deep and talented on offense, and Chuck Long hasn't discovered the only guy he's willing to let carry the ball.

3. Chris Brown doesn't hit the holes faster or anything like that. If you watch these two, you'll notice their styles are completely different from eachother. If you try and change a guy's style and make him someone else... you end up with Julius Jones trying to be Marion Barber, or closer to home... Allen Patrick trying to be DeMarco Murray. Remember all the games leading up to DeMarco's injury last year? Remember people writing Patrick off as nothing more than a glorified backup? You have to let guys do their thing, and for now, DeMarco's thing, injured or not... leads the team in rushing and obviously is doing something right for Sam to have success downfield without a Malcom Kelly-type present. CB's style is more like a car that's left in neutral on a downgraded slope. He just kinda rolls through and avoids head-first contact. Murray is a guy who waits for the hole to develop, then shoots through it. He's a real nightmare to tackle according to everyone on the team. I'd say when TCU's "stellar" defense has to put eight guys on the line for simple running plays, we're doing something right. Remember CB had a knee surgery, too... and he wasn't exactly tearing it up against TCU, either.


And finally... for those that say Murray's afraid to make dangerous cuts, did you see the screen pass against TCU he made? That's one of the nastiest cuts I've seen in recent memory when he spun off that defender, and he did it in full speed like it was second nature. CB, Madu, Patrick... nobody else in recent memory still makes those plays IMO. The linebacker would have blown anyone else up. He's added weight, and given all these points... I can certainly see why he's not busting long runs every snap. Nevermind the fact that even in his best game so far he's not some consistent 150+ yard rusher. Where's the homerun plays by Brown and Madu? They're all experiencing the same "problem," and that's having quality guys around them produce at a level they don't have to be AD for OU to win.

No offense, but I pretty much disagree with everything you said.

[My Opinion Matters]

We're obviously not blocking and/or making guys at the second level miss. Why? Hell if I know.

[JLEW1818]

Anybody else thinks DM comes unloaded against Texas??? I think we start passing so much and catch them off guard on a draw, and see you later DM!!!

[tigepilot]

The whole "their loading up the box" argument is gettting a little old. If this 'big' offensive line were all they were cracked up to be, OU would be able to get consistently good yardage against 'smaller' teams no matter who they were starting and they haven't really been doing that (by consistant I mean, no three and outs when you're just trying to burn the clock late the game). If a 'bigger' defense was loading the box to stop the run I'd agree with the argument a little better.

My observation of Murry is that he not afraid at of making the cuts. In fact, looks to me like he's doing too much of it. Last year there was several times when he would just power into someone in open space AD style and while doing so always have him a few more yards than most backs would get, I always wished he would try and put a move on the dude to see if he can get it all. This year, he seems to by trying to cut, turn, twist, and spin in the middle of lots of traffice or even while still in the hole. I'm looking for him to go back to exploding through the hole like he did last year and save the moves for the second and third level when it's a little more open.

Like pointed out in a previous post, the success and balance of this offense does remind me a lot of the '03 team which was a pretty damn good offense... while White was healthy.

[picasso]

Murray still has his speed. I just think it's a matter of not quite letting loose. He still seems hesitant. I have a feeling if there's a hole against Tejas, he will be rolling through it.

[JLEW1818]

Murray still has his speed. I just think it's a matter of not quite letting loose. He still seems hesitant. I have a feeling if there's a hole against Tejas, he will be rolling through it.

oh its going to happen.

[Taxman71]

I'm not a coach, but DM looks like he is running too mechanically this year as opposed to his natural stride like last year. It reminds of a golfer in process of tinkering his swing angle or the like. It will likely payoff in the long run, but it seems like he is fighting the urge to do what comes natural to him right now. That said, if he could just break a tackle once or twice a game, he would have bigtime numbers right now.

[snp]

It may just be me, but in the last two games it looks more like the Kejuan Jones disease (tripping over the hash marks.) Or maybe his injury hasn't healed 100%

This year's run attack is all finesse. We haven't had a smash-mouth attack since AD left. IMO.

We run out of 3 TE sets and I-Form with 2 TE. That's a power running game, not finesse.

[Statalyzer]

I think Murray MAY be affected by his knee injury but I also think he is suffering from JAMES ALLEN disease.Allen got into the habit of doing too many cuts, shake and bake moves instead of just hitting the hole and going.

Yeah, he reminds me of Ramonce Taylor in that regard (except without the getting kicked off the team for failing his classes then get arrested with drugs part) - seems like he's trying too hard to break off the 50 yard TD run and in the process costing himself a lot of consistency.

[adoniijahsooner]

stoops has said repeatedly that Murray is more physical than people think. We have to remember that he weighs 215lbs this year as opposed to the 200 he weighed a year ago. I personally would be more concerned if we ran the ball only 10-15 times a game than rather we have a breakaway threat or not, because with the recievers we have I dont think we need one. We ran the ball 58 times against Baylor, and sam still had 370 yards passing. We dont need a breakaway threat at tailback, with the make up of this team. We have run the ball into the endzone on the goal line everytime, and not many big 12 teams can claim that.